Prisoner Theory | Elden Ring Philosophical Dissection

[@theemerdareloth]

Edit: I've seen many people saying this. I said here 0:29, "The Prisoner Iron Mask has only its left eye." This was meant to mean "Has only it's left eye shut" as it succeds me talking about fully blind characters. I should've been clearer on this point though, so I wanted to pin this here to clarify. Also, Irina, Hyetta, and Brother Corhyn are in the video, they're just at the end. Thank you all. This is my first video on Elden Ring. Please let me know how you liked it. I know the audio might be an issue in a few places as my mic picks up literally everything I do when I'm recording, so I apologize about that. The next Elder Scrolls Lore video will be up within the next month, and the topic will be on the Thalmor. Thanks for your pateince with me!

[@LAK_770]

It was really good dude. Nice script and delivery, good voice, good synthesis of ideas

[@AlfieHolter420]

Great video. I'm commenting halfway thru so I don't know if you mention it later but the grace eye that is put in Messmer to seal the serpent is in Marika/Radagon as well. It's the scarseal/soreseal items you can find in game which are some of the best talismans hands down. You can see the same Y shape burned into them. It's literally their eyeball. Also implying they themselves were blinded upon apotheosis

[@bonedragon7665]

There are some great free audio plugins you can get to filter out unwanted sound. Depending on the software you use to record.

[@NecroxTheGamer01]

It was a great video, having so much information condensed here is good food for thought

[@gravegaming2023]

Stopped right at 7:00 it takes two brain cells to know no child of a still living queen can be anything more than a heir, and it's very blatantly stated that Marika succeeded the gloam eyed queen who was the god before her and is the person in the trailer that Marika gets the golden braid from. Melina and messmer controlling fire is from a curse placed on marika by the GEQ upon her death as revenge for her erd tree being burned down.

[@nmfoxx]

You're probably aware of this, but the missing eye trope is borrowed from Odin from Norse mythology. In short, Odin gave his eye for divine knowledge-meaning that the missing eyes in the demigods may allude to some kind of insight or glimpse into the greater truths of the world. This makes some sense if you consider Morgott is one of the few with both eyes-and is completely brainwashed/devoted to the golden order. Both eyes being missing may imply some kind of deeper enlightenment or acceptance of deeper truths. Miquellas eyes being closed makes sense as a god, as does Marika. Malenia and Messmer's blindness seems a bit more traumatic; maybe alluding to a glimpse into the horrifying truths associated with the scarlet rot or abysmal serpent.

[@the-hermit-arcana]

Malenia's eyes rotted out, and there's something living (writhing serpents?) behind Messmer's eyes. Their bodies are claimed and ruined by powers beyond the Golden Order. Thorn sorcerers and madness mobs are also missing their eyes signifying they have also lost themselves to these beings; the Blood Star and Frenzied Flame respectively. The Finger Readers also have no eyes, being completely servile to the Greater Will.

[@todd3143]

this makes sense. i buy this

[@alfalldoot6715]

Morgott's eye is pretty much squinted entirely shut due to the horns surrounding it though, it only isn't directly removed.

[@phantasm9114]

Yeah but would rykard have a missing eye then ? He’s aligned with ranni enough in goal to get the blasphemous claw and he resents the golden order enough to want to change and “devour the very gods” and I know rykard can heal after being devoured by the great serpent but I doubt a change that minor in appearance and in meaning would get changed due to continuity

[@ElJewPacabrah]

@@phantasm9114idk if the devouring serpent is an outer god/god though. Good point though.

[@david5310]

Getting clotheslined by "Miquella the Tickela'" 48 minutes into a densely packed and otherwise relatively serious Elden Ring lore video after having paid attention for the entire video is a true combo LOL

[@crumpet5559]

same with 'Godwyn the Golden essentially catching the biggest stray in the Lands Between'

[@UNCLESAMSONITEIRL]

“Malenia is like an onion, she’s got layers.”

[@cryptotugboat7753]

“miquellested”

[@kylecherpy2842]

Oh hell yeah a one hour long Elden Ring video arguing a theory I've never actually thought about before, I'm so excited for this

[@mollypukes3029]

just made my food and I was so HYPED to be suggested this video

[@Joel.Massas]

@@mollypukes3029same here dawg

[@WaldoKrayt]

Since the base game i had the theory (don't know if this is explained in the game itself) that characters who commune with gods, whichever those might be, always have at least 1 eye closed/damaged. Almost like it's a requirement for them to appreciate the message those gods are sending to them, and those with their eyes totally shut/damaged are the ones who are most in touch with their gods, it's not a coincidence that people like Malenia being totally blind can almost become a goddess of rot, short of 1 bloom. Miquella appears with both eyes closed at the end aswell, having achieved actual godhood. Messmer having 1 eye open remains the same as all the others until he crushes it at lets the Abyssal snake take hold of his body, letting what is almost a divine entity take control after both his eyes are gone. There's a reason too as to why the Finger Crones have no eyes and are the only ones capable of understanding what the Fingers say. Also Mohg being able to commune with the Formless mother and so on, i don't think he'd be capable of that if he did have both his eyes. Madness ridden people literally have no eyes yet still fire Frenzy Flames out of the sockets and so on. The prophets blindfolding themselves are just trying to get as close as possible to the real thing, not realizing they have to become literally blind for that to happen. Maybe Prisioners themselves having their helmet with one eye shut may indicate they became prisioners for adressing the "wrong" god and since they have to have at least 1 eye missing for that there's no point in the helmet having 2 eyeholes, either that or the helmet itself is a mockery of those "one eyed" believers.

[@the-hermit-arcana]

I too believe that we're meant to read into a connection between eyes and the divine. We never see Marika depicted with her eyes open, either, do we? Most of the time her eyes are even covered by that crown she wears.

[@JoeKing69]

Also Odin gave up his right eye for enlightenment, which is perhaps where the trope originated.

[@mcrenn5350]

​@@JoeKing69 Or possibly the Itako from Japan. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itako

[@JoeKing69]

@@mcrenn5350 wow I never heard about that, thanks! Do you think that's why Corhyn is blindfolded?

[@kickcloudstv]

@@JoeKing69 Also, NKJV - "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire." And also in ancient Egypt where Horus loses their eye in a battle with Seth. Many mythologies have a missing eye motif/archetype.

[@AscendantStoic]

Actually the note by Midra also decribes how you can defeat the frenzy monsters in the woods, they grab the player using their staff, brushing it aside is basically "parrying it" .. if you manage to do that you can actually "touch them" .. as in physically beat them and kill them using regular attacks. It's cool that the note serves both a lore and a gameplay purpose.

[@coreyrachar9694]

only for smarty-pants' who can both figure out what the heck the 'aging untouchable' is supposed to be and also that it's even a hint at all concerning gameplay. I think you ARE right, and it's extremely clever, but it's too damned clever for me to figure out on a blind playthrough :P

[@AscendantStoic]

@coreyrachar9694 Agreed, I figured the parry thing from player messages on the ground near the creatures, I first thought it's a troll message like "jump here" messages meant to get you killed, but the note just confirmed they were right and not trolling.

[@neurohack9038]

Well *duh*

[@AscendantStoic]

@neurohack9038 OK Mr.big brains, be careful or your head won't fit through the door 🤣

[@boylwo4175]

wow, in my playthrough i never found that note or learned how to kill them, i just snuck through like metal gear solid lmao

[@johnf.kennedy893]

Im John F Kennedy and I approve this message.

[@finalbreath15]

Hope you are well Mr. Kennedy

[@Plz8662]

Don’t lose your head Mr Kennedy! 🫡

[@kmradenorman3105]

Oh my god President Kennedy I'm you're number 1 supporter!

[@Uro_Boros]

​@@kmradenorman3105your*

[@cloverasmrr]

I PFFED 😂

[@lordofchaosinc.261]

Midra: unbelievable sad and painful backstory hinted at in descriptions Players: didn't expect old codger

[@theemerdareloth]

@@lordofchaosinc.261 Strange sort ahead!

[@TheSilly6403]

Pathetic sort ahead, Therefore try attacking

[@Erose1803]

Miquella also had the unfortunate curse of nascency - nothing major he ever starts will finish; he never finished finding a cure for Malenia's scarlet rot, let alone finish the needle. He never finished his plan to carry out his age of compassion - becoming a god was the first step. In a sense, his curse of nascence was another prison.

[@Ricflaireofastora]

Same

[@taylorsackett2556]

Ultimate gooner

[@jayd0n-_-]

​@@taylorsackett2556insane brainrot but its true

[@vera39440]

Huh. So us stopping him in his tracks at the end of the DLC is actually a fitting end, but that's why it feels so jarring and abrupt, like there was supposed to be more. The main character can't see anything through to the end, and in the end the story remains unfinished. very cool concept

[@zachariahjonahmaldonado5897]

He just lacks conviction, unlike the prisoner starting class, who has had at least 1 conviction.

[@Not.A.Heretic]

melina seems to say the words destined death more than anybody else in the game too. almost like they're putting it right in front of our face

[@elijahaleksanteri307]

Literally says she will deliver us destined death in the FF ending. Don’t know if it gets any more in our faces than that.

[@HeevaEgo]

@@elijahaleksanteri307 even before the FF ending. When she burns herself, she specifically states that the Tarnished shall one day meet the path to Destined Death…. And when she says that, she literally send you to the Lands of which the Rune of Death (Destined Death) currently resides: Faram Azula

[@AlanSmithee-r3t]

Yeah, there are a few hints throughout the game that Melina was the GEQ, her phrasing of 'as sure as night follows day' for example. Another potential hint is her dialogue at the outer wall battleground sight of grace: "In Marika's own words. Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..." I think this is a reference to her defeat by Maliketh making her a failure, and her punishment was to become a kindling maiden, a sacrifice.

[@unioncare2055]

Most obvious hint is claw mark on her eye, suggesting Maliketh's doing.

[@zachariahjonahmaldonado5897]

I think that's just an idiom in this setting, like Umbasa, May the Flames Guide Thee, or May You Find Your Worth in the Waking World.

[@ericohm9474]

So your telling ME. The flame of frenzy is called upon by GREAT SUFFERING and the hornsent genius idea to keep it at bay was to impail him with this barb sword that tortures him for eternity? AND IT WORKED?!?

[@theamazingmr.shovelman8328]

Ay man if it’s stupid and it works it ain’t stupid

[@andrewmcreynolds3692]

Well, he was told to "Endure" by a woman he possibly loved or at least greatly respected

[@Joural0401]

@@ericohm9474 ... Did it? Man who was too weak to become the lord of frenzy was turned into said lord by that suffering.

[@nathanlaleff4273]

Not entirely successful. He wasn't originally capable of becoming the Lord of Frenzied Flame and only became such after being told to "Endure" the Hornsents punishment. Technically, he wasn't a threat and the extended punishment is what actually made him into the Lord of Frenzied Flame at all.

[@geordiejones5618]

​@@nathanlaleff4273classic irony

[@wheel-n-deal]

One must imagine Hewg happy

[@jamesmason7761]

Very based

[@Calvin_Coolage]

Unlike Sisyphus, Hewg accomplishes his task when we defeat Miquella. So yeah, I do imagine Hewg as happy. My man deserves it for having to deal with me running back and forth with stones.

[@sniperfity2327]

Egon could have considered himself a noble knight of dragon lineage, such as the banished knights

[@theemerdareloth]

@@sniperfity2327 That's a good point!

[@Dani_1012]

I come from the A Song of Ice and Fire fandom, just slowly making my way through Elden Ring lore, and now I learn of a character named *Egon* of *dragon lineage* that could have been a *knight*. George RR Martin wasn't subtle at all 😅 I like finding these little references

[@fronatomy6280]

Nah, see the Drake warriors were once called the Drakebusters. This is very evident in the boss battle with Bayle, Egon clearly ain't afraid o' no drakes. Name didn't stick though.

[@cyrillsfun4667]

First, they took the left eye as in "there's nothing left here"; then they took the right eye too as in, "now as you can see, you have no right"

[@Nicvira]

this quote went hard

[@thebreekiman]

Oh you dont have the right oh you dont have the right

[@Feuerex]

Eyes in ER are certainly of great importance, but I can't say I'm fully convinced that this is the intended meaning of it all, the reasoning on some of the characters seems like a stretch, like at a certain point you could say that anyone with enough determination becomes a prisoner of their own ambitions, rather than simply being a person with a clear, but hard to reach goal in mind. On the other hand, Rennala, Fire Giant and several NPCs can easily be considered prisoners but have their eyes intact. Such is the nature of Miyazaki's worlds, where it's hard to distinguish between hidden meanings, unfinished ideas that got scrapped, and just unintentional coincidences. Nevertheless, the vid was well put together and all ideas clearly communicated, so I enjoyed it very much, thanks for making it!

[@Hugo_Tate]

"sir ansbach, who I will continue to glaze..." lmao

[@AC-hj9tv]

As is custom

[@Zythryl]

The concept of closed eyes has mostly been nebulous so far, and still is of course. Now being able to articulate how being a prisoner is a parallel we can draw is very valuable! Thank you for the video! Well done!

[@hadowsinc.3156]

On why they didn't just kill Midra Inthink its because vessels for the Frenzied flame can come back to life and of they weren't fully under the flames control before they are after they come me back. Just look at how shibri and the finger maiden are controlling dead people. Midra basically kills himself and becomes a lord of frenzy. Keeping him alive was probably a measure to ensure the problem didn't get any worse.

[@incendiarypoprocks8700]

There’s actually some great unused dialogue from Shabriri’s vessel, Yura, talking about a madness worming its way into his mind, and how he “can feel it, even now.” I believe that the Frenzied Flame can influence those affected only a certain amount, but only in their death can it inhabit them as an avatar - hence Midra’s endurance to protect what remained of the world.

[@johnrich4953]

That's how I felt also , he becomes the lord of frenzy after we basically kill him or bring him as close to death as possible in the first phase , then the frenzy has a stronger control over him tempting him to let go and fully give in .

[@conspiracypanda1200]

I suppose that's why the Tarnished seems to drop dead in the end cutscene before rising again too. They did what they had to, then died and brought destruction to everyone else with it. And the reasoning could be whatever you want: Hate of the broken world and the belief that it should all just be destroyed, Spite against the gods and your supposed fate to fix it all, Revenge and Despair for all those NPCs who suffered no matter what you did to try and help them. It's all the same World-Hating Doomer philosophy that you can read in any standard "humans are a virus/the real monster" comment online. But your tarnished actually committed and murder-suicided the whole world over the belief.

[@Deflamed_Sphere]

@@conspiracypanda1200 mhm

[@fleetstreet11]

"General Chadahn, Traitor Rykard, and Lunar Waitress Ranni." - Morgott, Rune King of the Gold Standard

[@adamdamalfi3472]

Igon? More like Eyegone

[@HazeZeus]

Ba dum tss

[@Burblekut]

Ba dum tss

[@deadwooddooley3202]

One thing you seemingly missed so far is the fact that the appointed beasts like blaidd and maliketh were adopted into their respective families and became step/adopted siblings of their respective empyreans

[@technicallypsycho5370]

​@yuu2023 I read the description of a Maliketh item yesterday that specifically stated he is Marika's half-brother. Might have been his rememberance.

[@technicallypsycho5370]

@yuu2023 It was his armor, my bad. I knew it was something you get after beating him.

[@SuiteBid]

​@@technicallypsycho5370 If I recall, in Japanese, the same word is used to refer to Blaidd snd Maliketh's relation to Ranni and Marika respectively and it basically translates to a brother who isn't genetically related but is sworn to be a brother.

[@lorisceleste1860]

I believe Nanaya was a Deathbed Companion. She was cradling the child who was once, destined as an exalted noble to become the Lord of Frenzied Flame “in an age long past and a distant land.” Midra became a Lord of Frenzy after probably centuries of suffering, becoming one not because he was touched by the Three Fingers but because he suffered for so long he was found to be a perfect vessel for the Frenzied Flame. So basically, Nanaya showed up at his house, Midra wanted to help a pregnant lady and when the Inquisitors understood that the Frenzied Flame was coming they wanted to find the source and destroy it. Midra understood that Nanaya’s child was the source and he probably wished to defend her and the child she was expecting and told the Inquisitors to go away from his land. The Inquisitors killed his servants and scholars, tortured him to death since he didn’t confess while Nanaya was hidden away, gave birth to her child as is duty for a Deathbed Companion but the child was stillborn and that’s how the torch was made: the fading or “feeble” Frenzied Flame burned the child’s body away to the bone, expect for its spine. I feel this theory just fits better with the Frenzied Flame torch.

[@semisolaire5866]

Nanaya I feel showed up to the manse playing the same role as shabriri. We never see her eyes, and Midra we know was held in high regard with the hornsent prior to the events that unfold. With the whole dlc basically being about motherhood it makes a lot of sense that she was trying to birth a lord of frenzy, and the hornsent dealt with the child and punished midra. Nanaya and midra I think were not put to death due to midra's standing or just punishment instead of fear of a lord being born of them due how the people in front of manse were dealt with. Nanaya died not near midra but near the stairs, guarded heavily, as to not escape. Her last words were the curse on midra that inevitably caused him to become a lord instead

[@Huh12758]

If you remember ds2 DLC's land most of them felt to a dark Queen that corrupted them

[@yungxtsunamiyt8996]

i literally was like”he doesnt have a bayle part”BAYLEEEE

[@theemerdareloth]

CURSE YOU BAAAAAYLE!!!!!

[@ianjudge5137]

I hereby vow. You will rue this day

[@AVKaranov]

When Hewg starts off with the "naw pump your brakes", I figured that was just him pre-empting any doubts or worry that he'd be some kind of terror in waiting, about to burst free and wreak havoc. Don't look to me for peril, I gotta forge.

[@wideopenwounds]

For your first video on Elden ring, it’s great and have to say you should keep it up. Once your channel grows, definitely get a less high frequency microphone but your breakdown and passion as well as your perspective are on point! Plus the royale with cheese chapter title got me geekin

[@NickCombs]

In defense of Malenia, literally no one in the Lands Between is able to speak about any of the events we've taken place in within the Land of Shadow. The closest we get is Enia offering new remembrance stuff, but she's obviously not got any specific dialogue. For all we know, they may be prevented from recognizing anything that happens under the baldachin spell from outside.

[@AS-lk1zu]

This is the first time I've seen another (besides myself) that mentioned Malenia was also possibly charmed by Miquella. I really like this idea and would love to explore it more. I think it is possible, considering the knights was charmed in the Haligtree and how many other characters he ended up also controlling. The pride that she abandoned and the actions that she made gives off the impression that she was not quite herself. Even though it seemed like the love and care was mutually expressed between both siblings, maybe perhaps after Miquella abandoned his love (St. Trina) and proceeded onto his plans he abandoned Malenia. After framing Mohg as kidnapping him and leaving Malenia alone and without his controlling abilities it left Malenia broken (and perhaps confused?) as we see her sitting waiting beside the last place that she believes he was taken from. It also seemed like she didn't know his full plans either, because it came off as she thought Mohg had also kidnapped him at the time, meaning Miquella had either left her out of that part of the plan or she simply wasn't aware because she was being charmed during that whole period. I really enjoyed this video. The length as well as the different perspectives offered in it. Watched the entire thing.

[@Orobolus_Outline]

The visual symbolism of Miquella's chain is incredibly telling. It is wrapped around the crowns of the Haligtree soldier and knight helmets, and on Malenia, it wraps around her head at the visor, a chain of unalloyed gold over her eyes.

[@AS-lk1zu]

@@Orobolus_Outline Wow, thank you for pointing that out! I've never noticed that detail before.

[@pgh3316]

1:30 Messmer is technically missing both eyes, but has a sealed eye and a false eye seal made of grace. My theory for the tattooed seal is that it is a mark of an empyrean and the remaining eye is removed/replaced when an outer god takes hold (evidenced by Messmer's Abyssal serpent in phase 2 and Melania as the Goddess of Rot). With the exception of Messmer who I don't think is outright called an empyrean and assuming Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen, all the charecters that have that sealed left eye are empyreans.

[@the-hermit-arcana]

It's telling that formerly-Empyrean Ranni, in her false body, has her RIGHT eye closed. The right-hand path is considered closest to God, whereas the left-hand path at the least questions God. Having a closed left eye is symbolic of being blind to possibilities outside what the Greater Will desires; a closed right eye the opposite. In the case of Messmer and Malenia I think them having both eyes missing is symbolic of them being both claimed by other powers already. Malenia may technically be an Empyrean, but she is claimed by the god of the Scarlet Rot, and Messmer by the Abyssal Serpent. Both are being apparently consumed from within, their ruined bodies mere vessels for these beings. Ditto the finger-readers, but for the Greater Will.

[@pgh3316]

@@the-hermit-arcana might steal your explaination in the future, you worded that way better than I ever have lol Hadn't thought abt the finger readers though, tbh I forget abt them when I'm theory crafting too often... good eye!

[@ImpracticalShield]

the prisoner has his right eye open, not his left

[@looserdruid6434]

thank you

[@RealCleanGoblin]

fr. this is when i dismissed the theory

[@user-kd3tt5lr6m]

I feel like it could be argued that the fact Malenia's cutscene doesn't change after Miquella's death is just something the devs didn't think about. You'd expect her to be at least a little bit cranky you killed her little brother, who it seems like she spent a lot of her life catering to [if the 'Malenia was in on it theory' is real]. But, no. There are a lot of alterations that occur within the the DLC that feel like they should minutely change certain details in the base game.

[@Calvin_Coolage]

It's not like she necessarily has a way of knowing if Miquella has died. It does make her situation sadder in a meta sense though.

[@Mysticalfrog29]

Also, if melania is charmed by miqqela when his charm breaks, would she notice? Or at least realize something is different

[@luisramirez-or5vg]

Another secret thing I wish the devs thought about was having a secret ending where if you accept the frenzied flame, then burn the tree with the frenzied flame then undo it with the golden needle, have a cutscene or piece of dialogue with Melina stating that and whatnot, a clever way to keep Melina alive at the end of the game with it's own ending

[@Slender_Man_186]

And it’s not like Fromsoft hasn’t done this in the past, Siff from Dark Souls 1 gets a different intro cutscene if you’ve beaten the Artorias DLC, and doing Dark Souls 2’s DLC unlocks a new interaction with Vendrick that allows you to unlock the true power of his crown to never turn hollow.

[@Lazymindflayerwithcofffee]

​@@Mysticalfrog29 it could have been (and i belive it is) conditioning rather then ,charm, as in spell. Or in other words he used his ,loving little brother, persona to convince her (not force, but manipulate) to do his bidding, so it is unlikely she will

[@cliche3117]

the significance of the prisoner mask being a reference to griffith is that griffith reached a point where his group lived among royalty. Following the character Guts deciding to leave Griffith snuck into the princesses room to make love to her (the great crime referenced in the item description)

[@Feuerstaub]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m thinking 💯

[@kol2456]

Within the first 30 seconds I knew you're barking up the same tree I have been for months. Well done articulating what i've been trying to.

[@youtubeletmeintoyoutube4580]

Drives me crazy he switches between “stage left” and “audience left” without specifying

[@SaHaRaSquad]

Hewg also voluntarily stays in the roundtable hold as it's burning and Roderika can't convince him to go. Indicating that he may have been a prisoner but his purpose still means a lot to him, and perhaps having the opportunity to smith a weapon that can slay a god and see it wielded by the next elden lord was all he wanted in life as a blacksmith. Maybe he was one of those people obsessed with something to a point it would prevent them from pursuing other things in life, but still something done voluntarily.

[@HarryVoyager]

As I recall, he is not even actually a prisoner. As I recall, he isn't actually chained to anything and could just leave whenever he felt like it. He just doesn't. It may well be he is even faking the prisoner thing so he can stay and keep smithing, because who would trust an unchained misbegotten?

[@IBeCheeseBallRolling]

On Malenia: The belief that Malenia broke the Unalloyed Needle to allow her to bloom in Caelid is only supported by the needle's location and the idea that the needle seals away rot. As far as I know, there is no further evidence that proves that the Unalloyed Needle was even inside Malenia during her battle against Radahn, nevermind that she broke it in order to be able to bloom. Consider the times we do see Millicent and Malenia bloom in game. Millicent blooms after she is killed by the player, notably with the Unalloyed Needle left in her flesh. Contrast this to the other end of Millicent's questline, where she decides to take out the needle and as a result she rots away. Now, after we defeat Malenia in battle and reload the area, we can see that she has bloomed. In order to obtain Miquella's Needle, we must trade in the Unalloyed Needle from Millicent's questline at Malenia's bloom. This implies that the bloom has Miquella's Needle in it, and that even before we defeated Malenia she had Miquella's Needle in her flesh. If we consider the fact that she was asleep from all the way back when she bloomed in Caelid to when we as the player meet her, it seems that Miquella's Needle could have been in her body even before the fight with Radahn. Before we used to think that the needles combat the rot, but in every instance we see Malenia or Millicent bloom, they seem to have a needle within them. The one time Millicent doesn't bloom is when she takes the needle out. This leads me to believe that the needles actually promote blooming. Furthermore, I think Miquella's Needle was an instrument to charm Malenia. Malenia bloomed in her fight against Radahn not because it helped her, but because it helps Miquella. This parallels how people charmed by Miquella would suicide bomb for his sake (Haligtree Soldier Ashes) and how Millicent can be manipulated into blooming, not because she wants to but because it furthers Gowry's interests.

[@coreyrachar9694]

wow this reading is really good. This also lines up nicely with milicent's dialogues about 'returning the dignity' etc, etc. actually referring to her sense of self being lost when she used the needle. good stuff.

[@Thezanlynxer]

But the description of the needle reads "There is something I must return to Malenia. The dignity, the sense of self, that allowed her to resist the call of the scarlet rot." as stated by Millicent. That implies Malenia once had the needle implanted, but it was removed which prevented her from resisting the rot.

[@coreyrachar9694]

@@Thezanlynxer Sorry I wrote a wall of text but I didn't mean to. I had a lot of thoughts about this. Yeah you're right, but I don't think it conflicts too much with this theory. In fact, to me, a quote from milicent on the needle she takes out and gives to you about how she needs to return malenias dignity just reinforces it. Like why would she give us the needle? Not like we give it to malenia, she could have done that herself. It also makes sense in hindsight from the DLC that miquella would want malenia to bloom in order to weaken radahn. Maybe. There is lore about how he wanted to prevent the rot in his sister but this is cast into doubt because of the nature of miquella's character. Manipulative, etc. Also following Gowry's questline and malenia's story suggest to me that how it might work is the needle does indeed prevent the rot, but it doesn't get rid of it. Gowry's goal is to get milicent to bloom. Gowry ALSO wants us to give milicent the needle. Maybe the needles true purpose is to 'store up' for lack of a better term the rot so that when the needle is removed it is powerful enough to cause the bloom. I don't know, but this is really lining up nicely in my headcannon.

[@IBeCheeseBallRolling]

@@coreyrachar9694 I wanted to add a bit, if it interested you. In my initial comment, I stated that "the one time Millicent doesn't bloom is when she takes the needle out", however on reflecting a bit this doesn't seem exactly true. We can kill Millicent before she ever even gets to the Haligtree, and she will die without blooming even though the needle was stuck in her flesh. This seems to indicate that there is some element of distress needed to get Millicent to bloom, since her bloom occurs if we betray her. I am not exactly sure how this would work regarding Malenia's bloom, perhaps she feels betrayed because Miquella is using her like a tool to ascend to godhood or that he is leaving her behind?

[@IBeCheeseBallRolling]

@@Thezanlynxer It could imply that. I am a bit confused on the Unalloyed Gold Needle because of how I think it simultaneously represents that dignity that allowed Malenia to resist the rot, while also being a factor that causes Millicent to bloom. In another comment, I laid out how blooming also requires a sort of betrayal to trigger distress, at least when we observe how Millicent blooms, so perhaps my initial comment wasn't so accurate in its statements. An interpretation I read from someone else is that the dew we find on the Unalloyed Gold Needle after receiving it from Millicent represents the pride that Millicent imbues into the needle over the course of her questline. That idea helps resolve my confusion, and it also helps to explain why we can't just take the Unalloyed Gold Needle from Gowry, skip over almost the entirety of Millicent's quest, and perform the needle swap with that "incomplete" version. Just some food for thought.

[@smoss9813]

I love theories like that this. It doesn't change anything but adds another. Lens with which to view the work itself. Great video, love it.

[@Aldo.s.00022]

I usually get a bit bored of longer lore videos, since i've started watching vaati (with his crazy editing and movie like videos) but this one was super intriguing, and ofc you can never turn down some miquella the ticklla jokes. Gotta say this video really reminded me of charred thermos' videos (like the editing). Great job !

[@DaxterL]

Just a note on Blaidd. When he attacks us the tarnished, i don't think that's him giving in to the greater will. He is still protecting Ranni, the assassin's whatever their motive might be were approaching their HQ and Blaidd wanted to protect Ranni, in Ranni's rise where he'd presume she is (cause where else). But being in this sudden state where he has to endure the call the most, forcing himself into a bloodlust filled rage against the assailants, the tarnished just fall into his radar of "threat" unable to discern true friend from foe.

[@vektracaslermd743]

A mad dog. Confused, frustrated, and violent.

[@kratosdad1760]

I hate when videos like this end, they're so good to watch and i want more

[@metal_fusion]

Everyone a slave to something - Kenny ‘Attack on titan’

[@pcbth_]

the diary you mentioned about the untouchables also implies how untouchables can be defeated, by parrying. that's why midra touched one when he brushed off one.

[@Mudcrabclear]

I haven't finished the video yet but the reference to the elder scrolls games at the start is really thematic. Outside of daggerfall all of the player characters start out as prisoners. Aside from that the idea of the prisoner is a massive part of the lore as the fourth member of the warrior, thief, mage trio. Its rather complicated but the elder scrolls has a story telling mechanism based around those three with the the warrior/king residing in a tower that the thief wants into. They do battle and such with the mage as witness. The prisoner is the most complicated aspect and I don't entirely understand it but basically they they are special because they exist within the tower and are the player characters. I don't really do justice to the prospect but I think you'd find it interesting

[@ShinobudRUski]

This is a fantastic video with an interesting theory that, I was skeptical open seeing the thumbnail, I will forever be a defender of. However, I do think you misread on one instance: Ranni. Ranni does end up becoming the New God of The Age Of Stars, but her goal was to leave The Lands Between to their own devices; no Greater Will, No Golden Order, no Two Fingers, etc. and I think Metyr, Mother Of The Fingers helps this as well, as according to pieces of her lore, The Greater Will stopped communication with the fingers a long time ago. Otherwise, fantastic work.

[@theemerdareloth]

Thank you so much! This is the first super chat I've ever received, so I'm very grateful you'd do that. I'm definitely not hard sold on the Ranni position I stated during the video. Just an idea I had, but I'm more than okay if I'm wrong about it! Thanks again.

[@ShinobudRUski]

@@theemerdareloth You deserve a lot more. The level of detail and research is rare these days, only matched by people like Vaati and Smough.

[@theemerdareloth]

@@ShinobudRUski Thank you, man, seriously.

[@dkolb]

Really love the video and the humor in it too. Poor Mogh having to deal with the Miquellester...

[@ArisaRaven]

the first video essay ive fully watched and focused on in a long time, you’re very thorough and descriptive without overloading with too many details that make me lose the point amazing video and theories! ❤

[@shioneshiori4471]

In defense of Malenia: she was closest with Miquella, and he was the only one with any sort of answer to her condition. We didn’t see that she was close with any of her other siblings, only really Miquella. Of course she would go along with whatever his plan was because he was all she had. Even if she wasn’t charmed literally, I think Miquella absolutely knew she was dependent on him, and absolutely used that to his advantage. She’s still at fault but not as much as he was.

[@sly6759]

most definitely one of the more original and interesting ER videos I've seen lately. Great job, hope to see more from you!

[@-SRM-]

Hey you, Dareloth. You're finally awake..

[@masterzoroark6664]

Love the fkin "ALLEGATIONS BEATEN" edit with Mohg. (Jeez, imagined it being a fkin Ace Attorney but Elden Ring, and the idea for Miquella going to jail for ooooooooooooh-long time after the trail is extremally ammusing)

[@IsmarTheBeastx]

I have a differnt theory for Ranni as she is prisoner to 3 things. 1st she was prisoner to her fate as fate is told be the stars if I am remembering correctly. 2nd she was a prisoner to Radahn as he held her fate in stasis and stopped ot from progressing. And lastly she was a prisoner to the fingers as she was an empyrian and had a two fingers. She seemed to be a willing prisoner to her fate in the stars and to her moon, but would not accept her fate to be controlled by the greater will/two fingers and so rebelled by casting off her body.

[@sgooopy0901]

i love this video so much already 👏i👏agree👏wholeheartedly👏 kudos for doing so much research and having the attention span to connect all these dots, let alone edit it all too, goodness gracious

[@chrisxl5152]

Socks weren't invented back then so messmer had no sock to tuck his snake in. Must have been uncomfortable.

[@racheecha974]

That’s its own sort of prison.

[@karpi470]

2:18 Probably the most important aesthetic influence for the prisoner class is the famous historical "prisoner in the iron mask", a French prisoner of state that lived around the turn of the 18th century. His identity is unknown to this day, but due to the circumstances of his imprisonment, it is often speculated that, similar to the description of the mask in the game, he belonged to the aristocracy.

[@Chickawah]

You should keep making Elden Ring videos. This was solid 👍

[@DredgenA]

It might’ve been said and I missed it, but an interesting and more literary aspect that stuck out to me was that maybe the lack of eye(s) may indicate a lack of knowledge or understanding of their imprisonment in whatever regard. Hewg being the exception, as he acknowledges his fate as a prisoner, whereas the others are never fully aware of whatever slavery they fall under. Kind of a nod to the whole “blind to the truth” situation. Just supporting info, I guess. Awesome video though, first time visiting the channel and definitely subbed

[@RD-py9sv]

I'm not sure Malenia was a willing participant to the grand plan, but I think she fully understood what he was capable of with his abilities. In some ways, I think she might even have been intended to serve Miquella in the place that dog guardians served her mother and sister. Be it love, guilt, devotion through force or choice; she was his most loyal protector, and the one he tasked with the supremely important battle against Radahn. Although, that admittedly also shows Miquella's degree of callousness. It was her knight that carried Melania to Miquella's tree rather than any plans he made. He used her like the blade she calls herself, and discarded her when her purpose was complete. I also think St Trina knew that without her and that compassion that came from love, Miquella would be a cold god who used his "devoted" followers with the same thoughtlessness. There to serve the purpose he gave them, and destroyed if they opposed. He probably thought he could even enchant the greater will by the time he's killed. I mean, at least Marika's decisions and actions come across as a kind of traumatized naivety. It's pretty obvious she COULD strategize very well, but I think she also fell for plenty of things that she should have questioned. Like she would see something that should have made her suspicious, but decided it was a Future-Merika problem. Only to realize that Past-Merika was an asshole, and should have handled it back then. Miquella's strategy to become a god like his mother prove layers on layers of diabolical preparation and execution. Maybe because of his ability to compel devotion and obedience, he never learned actual compassion. All he had to do was turn on the sparkle and anyone's problems disappeared. It's the same cruelty children show before they learn they're being cruel. So long as they get what they want, it doesn't matter what they did to get it. Mixed with a bit of the "EVERYONE feels better when they're loving ME" rationalization. At any rate, the moral of the story is probably don't commit systematic genocide through torture and butchery and stuff all the squishy parts in jars. (Which you'd think would be common sense, but apparently not.)

[@lactofermentation]

Just want to add that Malenia was used like the blade she was, and discarded when it was clear she was an inadequate tool for the job. She was supposed to kill Radahn, but she wasn't up to the task even with the rot's help. And Miquella is a child in mentality, not just in body. It's like everything he plans or does is cursed to never reach maturity, just like him.

[@Lazymindflayerwithcofffee]

I like this one

[@shippou]

Ooh, I like that you touched on Miquella's immaturity. I sometimes forget that he wasn't just cursed with external youth. But that in some way his mind would also have to be stuck in that youthful thinking. That sure he had been alive for a long time, but that does not mean his way of thinking would automatically grow with time.

[@lordofPockets]

this is such a great capsulation on the idea of st trina, thanks for making such a detail video!

[@KenchiofTaichi]

"Grant us eyes, Grant us eyes! Plant eyes on our brains to cleanse our beastly idiocy! A grand lake of mud... Hidden now from sight." - Micolash, Host of the Nightmare (Bloodborne). I always enjoy FromSoft's uses of themes inbolving eyes.

[@RaymondMichaelBarrera]

I was thinking of Bloodborne too and Micolash. There's definitely some inspiration and connections there.

[@AbsolXGuardian]

The concept of how ages work and the cost of prolonging them is borrowed from Dark Souls, so it makes sense that the Outer Gods of Elden Ring follow similar rules to that of Bloodborne

[@samuelm8895]

“Miquella the tickela” with such deadpan delivery 💀💀

[@_bessonitsa_5323]

Godwyn the Prince of Death is actually a prisoner too. Prisoner of his own body. If you attack Fia near his so-called corpse, he will cast a Death Rancor. In some item description it states that MIND and SOUL in the Lands Between are separated. So yes, Godwyn died in SOUL alone and remained caged, prisoned in his decaying body. He has a lot of eyes in the Lands thanks to the Deathroot, so yeah, just note for your essay

[@TheDiscerningTarnished]

Great video. I would add that the eyes are the gate way to the body and soul. More symbolically, the right eye is the gate way to the body(mind), while the left eye the soul(emotions). This is why the game cinematic shows us Godwyn’s left eye when it make reference to his soul. Ranni has a closed right, which depicts the absence of her true body. There are other aspects of the eyes such us the hue and whether it’s partially or fully shut that has significant implications on the nature of the pact a character’s body or soul has made with another entity or something divine.

[@MidnightatMidian]

He was a Glintstone sorcerer from Carian nobility. The ''one eyed'' mask is also to make the wearer unable to properly watch the stars. Indeed, you need to have both eyes to have ''stereoscopic vision'' which allow your brain to evaluate distances. Pretty nasty for a sorcerer in the lands between to be unable to correctly watch the stars...

[@davidpavel5017]

I feel like being inside a prison hinders your ability to watch the stars more than only having one eye. In fact, i dont see the need for binocular vision to watch the stars, they hella far bro, you aint gon be able to estimate the distances no matter how many eyes you have

[@MidnightatMidian]

@@davidpavel5017 You clearly miss the point I was making. I'm not your ''bro'' . Please don't get too familiar.

[@davidpavel5017]

@@MidnightatMidian alright not bro, now that you've clearly shown what a stuck up (censored) you are you can actually react to my point where i made your theory invalid in half a sentence instead of spewing literally useless words to make your ego feel better.

[@davidpavel5017]

@@MidnightatMidian alright not bro, i dont feel like i missed your point but if you do please enlighten me and help me understand what was your point. You however completely missed my point. Now that you've clearly shown what a stuck up censored you are, you can actually respond to my point where i made your point invalid in half a sentence. Binocular vision is irrelevant when watching the stars. Now please not bro be so kind as to respond to this argument.

[@eeyun5279]

@@MidnightatMidianhe’s right though, you’re not able to estimate distance even with 2 eyes that far away. Seems like your theory has some holes, no need to get mad, we’re all just slinging shit here.

[@alemaniacreyon]

I love videos like this that argue for a new theory with a lot of hard evidence. Regardless of if the theory holds up or not doesn't matter because the discussion is so interesting regardless

[@PorosTries]

Thank you for the Berserk mention. You'd be hearing from me if you hadn't 😡

[@ohduude]

Yet you still want him to hear it

[@ElJewPacabrah]

@@ohduude😂

[@ryo3757]

Amazing video, I enjoyed the connections you made and I really hope you make more, you deserve way more subs

[@agoodname5677]

Great content man can’t wait to see more from you

[@WildTTK-cr2re]

That spoiler alert saved me, thanks big boss

[@ricardom3114]

To my ear, I see Melania infecting Radahn with Scarlet Rot as something that screwed up Miquella's plans. Radahn was supposed to die in that confrontation, but failing to finish the job with her own strength forced Melania gave in to the rot to gain the upper-hand. But this massively delayed her brother's plans since Radahn perseveres through the rot for thousands of years. Had Melania been strong enough without embracing the Rot, perhaps Miquella would have stayed by her side.

[@waymooTV]

Halfway through the video and just wanna say that I'm enjoying it sooo much so far!! And always fun to see new theories when the community starts to think that everything's covered already

[@valthorix7347]

I quite liked this video. A lot of video essayists are very up their own ass and produce completely serious content, but the little bits of humor thrown around really help elevate this. I also agree with most of the ideas presented, except with Ranni's conclusion. The greater will wanted her to become a god of IT, not just a god in general. Ranni's big plan built a great, moon-shaped wall all around the lands between, and booted out all the other gods/outer influences, presumably including the great will. I can't imagine it liked that very much.

[@dkolb]

I think Ranni did subvert and overthrow the will of the Fingers but I'm not sure in terms of the Greater Will. The Greater Will seemed to have stopped communicating with the Fingers so it's possible it has a completely separate mindset from them and doesn't mind if Ranni becomes her own god.

[@mikary96]

What a beautiful and awesome video, never thought about this perspective. Also I can see Ranni as a prisoner mainly of her Fate or even her wish of not becoming a God for the Greater Will. And because of that she became a God of another deity, maybe the Moon, cause at least she’s not under the Greater Will’s mantle anymore, but she’s attached to her empyrean status, so any other god can take advantage of that.

[@theiyrosthenes1639]

That feeling when even philosophical analysis of Elden Ring is more fun than the PvP

[@Katoasapun]

Wow I love this video. Compeltely awesome reasoning and the attention to detail is immaculate. It got me thinking.

[@revengance4149]

hewg says "nah" as part of the sentence. he isn't giving a negative answer to our question he refuses the question or rather he addresses the implication that since we belong to the hold he is our prisoner as well. He wants us to know he doesn't take it personally. all this does give credence to your idea that he is very aware. For an imprisoned member of a racial minority that likely didn't get much of an education addressing the subtext of our question seems quite intelligent of him. besides if I remember correctly first we ask about the chains, he says he's a prisoner and these are his chains, and then we ask again where he says "nah, don't read to much into it", since we asked twice it shows that it's troubling us and he wants to ease that worry

[@nasso7728]

"the one who walks alongside flames" it reminds me of "fire walks with me" in Twin Peaks.

[@matthewball9851]

You should read Berserk :p Not because it helps you understand Elden Ring but because it's really good!

[@itswhatever5043]

This is a fascinating theory, especially since most other lore videos might mention Miquella and Marika paralleling each other and being trapped by their godhood, but you don’t really see other characters talked about in that same sense very often. Well done! I would say that for Ranni’s section, I think it’s less Ranni wants to escape godhood, and more like she wants to escape being molded by the Greater Will and Two Fingers into the god they want. Which is why her line of being chosen by the Two Fingers is immediately followed by, “I would not be controlled by that thing.” And yes, she ascends into godhood in the Age of Stars ending…only to immediately leave the Lands Between. The whole point of her ending is to free the Lands Between of being ruled over by a god, constantly manipulating and stripping people of their choices. The only higher power to guide the people in this Age of Stars would not be Ranni or even the Tarnished player, but the light of the moon and the night sky. Ranni, at least, is able to free herself from her prison.

[@Gabriel-he8uv]

I think she removed the needle precisely to be able to unleash the scarlet rot against radahn

[@HuronLokhart]

This video is fire and this channel deserves more followers

[@JP-lx3zz]

I like what I see gimme more dareloth I am addicted

[@ludwigthestrange]

I like that you literally said "And I'm quoting here: NAH" made my day so much better, thank you lol

[@rayparenteau]

I feel like Melina is to Marika as Millicent is to Malenia. Millicent was Malenia's pride, shed in Caelid during the battle with Radahn. Maybe Melina was a similar part of Marika - maybe her sense of self, or ambition - that was shed at the foot of the Erdtree (where she was "born"). Just a thought.

[@mitchelldoherty8666]

Elden Ring and the rest of the souls series prove themselves as high art by inspiring thoughts and conversations like this. Good stuff mate.

[@ebrietasbiscuit]

This was a rad video! Loved it! But…. What’s the ultimate last note on who the prisoner is or the thrower in general? Lol did I miss something?

[@BerrianPaleblood]

Awesome video. I never really put too much thought into the eyes, but now I'm going to be thinking about it for a while, lol.

[@mistakai4226]

You went too deep on this one. You've become a prisoner to your brain's propensity for pattern recognition.

[@maybemablemaples2144]

Signalis intensifies

[@sisyphus_strives5463]

Agree, they're all just tragic characters, the term prisoner is a little too strong to describe or unite these characters

[@steveeev]

It's a fun thought exercise nonetheless

[@charanko.]

@@sisyphus_strives5463 or maybe Prisoner personifies a theme which underlies all the available classes

[@Sharkbot89]

Great video. I loved how the time and dedication put into the video really shows. However, I noticed that you missed big boggart and the dung eater in your analysis. In both of their character models, both their eyes were not closed even tho both could fit both definitions of a prisoner. It seems that the 3 prisoners we met do not have any clear visual impairment despite their standings. I heard somewhere that the masks were just meant to bring suffering to the prisoners. One eye closed might add a claustrophobic element. This means our starting class prisoner might have just been locked up and kept the mask he was already wearing prior to breakout. If you take of the mask, unless you edit the character model, you should have functioning eyes. In conclusion, I do not believe that being a prisoner is the reason or at least only reason for eyes being shut in the game.

[@thexdfacedgamer2306]

*_"MIQUELLA THE TICKLER."_* 😂😂😂

[@kaederukawa1123]

What a fantastic video! I am a sub now. Please more content on Elden Ring lore and theories!

[@theemerdareloth]

Thank you!

[@Aramis2-]

4:30 Pulp Fiction refenrence?!(I have a watch up my ass)

[@Wesbreslin1986]

Best, new elden ring lore video I've seen in a while 💪💪💪

[@ethanstiles948]

Instant click as this was my starting class (cool helmet) the first time i played elden ring. It was going reasonably well until I got to Rennalla, then it was pain 😅

[@theemerdareloth]

@ethanstiles948 Rennala is such an interesting boss because she's either extremely easy or she'll destroy you depending on RNG and your build.

[@ArdynSol]

90k views on a 3k sub channel. Holy hell congrats dude. Great video

[@zqa12swx]

lol royale with cheese cracked me up. classic.

[@D33zNutzOnyaChin]

I suck at the game, but I absolutely love me some Elden lore. Great video man

[@JackestheSmug]

I think the thing with Ranni still becoming a god is different than what the two fingers would have wanted, the fate itself wasn't changed, but the reason and the consequence of the ascension were, witch is why we needed to kill Radahn and get the finger-slaying weapon, she wants to become a god that is not bossed around by the greater will, and to give that freedom to others

[@jty9631]

I agree with this. My belief is that an Empyrean is someone who could potentially host the Elden Ring. We see that with Marika and Radagon, the Elden Ring is literally inside them, they're a vessel for the thing. I think it's related to their shaman roots, whos bodies can harmoniously meld with others and I suppose even with concepts like the Elden Ring itself. Ranni did something different. She got rid of her body in the first place so she wouldn't have to do what the 2 fingers wanted. I think the ending movie shows she put the Elden Ring, along with Marika's body, inside the moon. :P

[@forktrus]

Igon is also a prisoner of his want of Bayle's death. His body is broken -- his heart is broken -- but his unyielding need for completion of his task binds even his soul to killing Bayle. He's trapped -- or imprisoned -- by this. Some real Moby Dick shit going on with Igon and Bayle. Enjoyed the video!

[@caseylascallette7269]

Obviously its a shout out to lisa (left eye) lopez... Rest in peace queen

[@rosssylibus6419]

That opening quote almost made it into my wedding when my wife and i were planning the ceremony 😂😂😂❤