Pro Microphone Secrets. Best mics for your money!

[@audiolinkstream2634]

The BEYER M88 is *NOT* a ribbon microphone. The M130 and M160 Are.

[@antoinelablanquie3827]

It’s the phancy phat 58 in my book :)

[@topikivioja5676]

Your channel really is the best I have ever come across when it comes to explaining things in an incredibly detailed, yet entertaining and interesting, way. Before this video I knew literally nothing about microphones but now I feel like I actually know stuff about them and can hear the difference between the types of mics you showed in the video. Definitely glad I found your channel. I’m really into technology as well as audio and music production and you’re providing superb content in all the 3 categories. My new favorite channel and looking forward to your upcoming videos!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Wow! Thank-you so much!

[@gabaummmm]

I totally agree! Thank you Mark!

[@alexandermishvelia4136]

Couldn't have saif it better myself! This is some really high quality content!! I turned on all notifications and subscribed, so you better keep it up 😁💪🏼

[@JohnHorvath73]

If we could only jam your section on proximity and stage signal to noise into the skulls of new engineers, the audio world would be a significantly cleaner and considerably less stressful for them. Love this video, Mark. Thank you!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Amen Bro!

[@inklipMedia]

21:10: Proximity effect - the mic diaphragm is already spaced off your lips behind the cap - so sing with lips on it is fine.

[@davebutler3905]

Wow! What a brilliant teacher. Plenty of real time physical examples that you can hear. Excellent lesson! Thank you!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thanks!

[@polutropos]

This is excellent. I was going to skip ahead but realised it was so good I had to watch it through. Thanks very much!

[@SoulKontagious1]

I have been learning from you all day today and wasn't even looking for your vids but I'm better for them. Keep it up Mark, I'm sold and subscribing right away. So informative.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Awesome, thank you!

[@gerdmilano8137]

Totally Genius No-BS Explanation. Why are not all KZbin videos like this?? Thanks, Mark

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Many thanks!

[@inklipMedia]

23:55: tonality aspect of ‘proximity effect’ - if singer is lips-on-capsule for better signal/noise ratio, may need to dial back the eq low end.

[@unidoubt]

Great to hear your experiences and explanations. Thanks for confirming The DPA & T bone OVID's, I was wondering about that. cheers

[@nana-ld4cr]

Wow, you are very good at explaining things. Thanks, Mark!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

welcome!

[@yaknostoyok]

This is like... the best review sjdjs in depth as heck

[@Scandi63]

Priceless! Haven’t learned so much about microphones before. Really great information.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thanks!

[@tthetechnician3912]

this channel changed my life mate

[@WCM1945]

Wow, I'm old. I was the designated sound man for my city government, and of course. on a very tight budget. That was in the 70s thru the 90s. I had a fairly good selection of the rudimentary types, giving me more flexibilty than most public-employee soundmen. My go-to mike was Shure SM58, and they never ONCE let me down, from the ruggedness standpoint. Matching, though, not really well-matched. But 90% of my work was outdoors, and in poor acoustic venues. Good thing I wasn't going for studio-quality sound. gain-before-feedback was usually my major challenge. The response curve tended to vary with the date of manufacture. But the price was right, and I got praise from some really knowledgeable people for my work.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Lovely to read. I am old too!

[@MrVleker]

As a music producer, this looks like a dream! Great work!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thanks

[@MrVleker]

​@@MarkPayneAudioIn my memory I placed this comment on a different video 😂 but I also enjoyed this one haha

[@thomascordery7951]

This is such a great explanation of the issues involved in microphone selection and technique, comprehensive and delivered with straight forward language. Ideal to share with anyone who needs to work with mics in either production or performance.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Many thanks!

[@Mike0193Azul]

Learned a ton from this. Loving this channel so far 💚

[@MarkPayneAudio]

So glad!

[@inklipMedia]

18:45 hypercardiod stage mic (Sure beta58 not SM58) pics up feedback if you direct monitoring from dead-front of the singer. Use an angled monitor to get outside the backside ‘lobe’ of the hypercardiod pickup pattern.

[@samhughes1747]

Fantastic stuff, friend! In the podcast space, it seems that all the tips are equipment-related, e.g. shilling for glossy plastic kit. These are great tips for using starter and midrange equipment well, and making the most of it. You did end with some equipment tips, but your focus was still on high-value equipment -- your focal point was on the Superlux and T.Bone SDC's, which is likely the most flexible category of microphone.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Great point!

[@jensdroessler3575]

Good video! Over 30 years of moving those faders. I agree on most of what you said. My basic kit is almost identical. Where it differs: I got some Røde NT5 in addition, I got the e905 on Snare (with the Audix i5 as an alternative), got an Audix D6 in addition to the Beta52A and the Beta91A (if I use only one mic for the BD I like the D6 better, but 52 and 91 are better in combination). My goto mic for guitar etc. is the Sennheiser e609 or e906. If people want two mics per git amp, I‘ll put on SM57 in addition. They sound more „metallic“ then the Beta57 in my opinion, so they are a better contrast to the e609/906. Oh, and I have some Audix OM7 for a special clientele. It is solid advice to recommend mics everyone knows to be at least ok and can be found on almost any rider, at least as an alternative for the actual wish list. Where are you located? Do I hear a little bit of a London cockney accent?

[@MarkPayneAudio]

My accent is from the Midlands. Leicester and Birmingham.

[@stoatystoat174]

Worth listening to the start even if I'd heard how dynamic and condenser mics are different before Good to hear the Why 🤔❤

[@Hectorymusique]

i got Audix kit a while ago...was great specially D4/D6 on kicks and toms!

[@okay1904]

Amazing Amazing - well researched presentation, from a true practitioner. In the best British tradition. Mark Payne, you are the real deal. Everyone who has an interest in microphones, should listen to this. I must add though, I am a bit peeved with the poor quality of live sound, and I think we need to start moving away from these industry standards microphones to get a higher quality of sound. And it has to start from the source, especially the microphones. Why? The quality of listening tools, headphones, speakers and even live speakers are getting so much better over the years, that the poor quality of these industry standard microphones becomes more apparent, by the day. I think we should continue to challenge ourselves, and improve the quality of live sound, to bring it closer to that of the best quality studio recordings. Much respect to you, for an absolutely outstanding video. Thank you.

[@ceebee2881]

Excellent explanations!!.. Thank you for the lesson Mark. I have just level up myself on knowledge about microphones. 😊👍

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thank-you!

[@inklipMedia]

30:45: beta57 - same as beta58 but with different basket that changes polar pattern and sets the ‘front lip on the mic’ position closer to the diaphragm for better signal/noise ratio. Good for guitar cabinets and kit snares.

[@stevebirmingham9650]

Brilliant technical video learned a lot and enfored in some areas what i already knew, good resentation skills now subscribed brill thanks Mark

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Welcome aboard!

[@inklipMedia]

33:44: interesting that the A/B comparison of Beta58 vs. MD435 revealed dramatically smoother and more present on the mD435 -- listening on my iPhone 14pro! But auditioned on a pair of low/mid-grade Polk TSi-300 tower speakers bi-amped by a decent Sony multi-channel car amp, the Beta58 maybe(?) does sound cheaper on the lower frequencies, but the difference on the high end disappeared.

[@johnrohdejensen1218]

Very solid information and advise. An instant follow.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thanks!

[@WayneMusicianUK]

Hey Mark, I’ve been a pro keyboardist for about 27 years now, just watched your video here and can’t thank you enough for such a lovely presentation.. I’ve not got a clue about mics and your video has opened my eyes 🤣🤣 I play keys and sing in a UK Bon Jovi Tribute Band and alternate what I use when I feel like it 🤣 I wear IEMS on stage over the years I’ve built up a few nice mics, I currently own the following below, but wanted to ask what your thoughts were on an Audio Technica AE5400, to use at home to just sing through while wearing my headphones…. I’m only using a Soundcraft EFX Mixer I have 1 x Heil PR35 1 x Heil PR37 1 x Shure Beta 58 1 x Beyerdynamic M88TG 1 x Sennheiser E965 1 x Audio Technica AE6100

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Hey! Good luck with the band. My tribute project was Genesis Visible Touch ... I had to finish on that as we returned back from Covid as I really got too old for the touring and my body did not want to do shows again! I don't know the AE5400 ... looking that up now... Arh! It has the same capsule as the AT4050 which I have used ... these are very good. So you are getting a vocal version of a nice budget-mid range studio condenser. I like the idea. That would be a keeper I think.

[@inklipMedia]

28:45: beta58 ‘if money disappeared, sound engineers would barter with these things’

[@billtrieshmann5979]

Lol. 58s, 57s and ds1s haha

[@davidprosper1086]

Great video!! Detailed explanations! Awesome! 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Glad you liked it!

[@BillRayDrums]

Recently I picked up a stereo matched pair of Behringer C2 SDCs for $60 USD and I'm thrilled with their quality. Also the Roswell Pro Audio stuff is all really great as well. I have a pair of the Mini K47s and they've been getting a lot of use. Also, "A moist vocalist"- Hahaha!!!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

We like moist!

[@7171jay]

The Beyer M88 is not a ribbon but is a dynamic mic. The M88 is a little less durable than most other dynamic mics so they can sometimes be damaged after long and repeated use as a kick drum mic right on the port of a kick. The M88 being just a bit fragile along with Beyer being known for their ribbon mics (like the M130 M160 M260 M500) is probably the source of confusion here.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Yes I am wrong here!

[@apostolicbible1]

You're my go to touchstone when comparing the audio on any other YT site with mic and audio gear reviews. The c414 is beyond my budget...I have a Rode NT1, Sennheiser MK4, Origin and SE2200...is there anything else I should consider. I go through a Behringer UV1...all for YT videos.

[@7171jay]

I find it hilarious that you pronounce Beta 58 sounding like beater 58 because people often call Shure 57s and 58s beater mics meaning that they can either take a beating and might actually be physically beaten up, in other words they are mics that you aren't particularly worried about because it's not expensive and it can take abuse.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Like it!

[@yubarecordingstudio7578]

Nice! Sorry to be that guy but Beyerdynamic m88 is dynamic not ribbonmic Try it on guitar amp 👌

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Ok thanks!

[@wheelie63]

my experience agrees with everything that you have said.

[@inklipMedia]

9:02: tonality aspect of proximity effect (low end boost at around 200 hz for the Beta57A) shown graphically.

[@fusion-music]

The reviews on Thoman's site for the Ovid C100 from Thomann are not good. But they are 10 years old. Perhaps the design has been improved. They do have a 30 day returns on it, so I would think they perhaps have a lot of returns. I used very inexpensive condensers in the 70s for recording. The spec looked good on paper and they performed well on mic stands, but were not suited to handling. I'm sure this will be a very useful video for some. Nicely presented.

[@inklipMedia]

25:40: ‘mic on the top lip’ - consistent mic position provides for a single eq and gain setting that’s easiest for the sound tech.

[@chandruvijayasekar6183]

Great video Mark…..very informative and you beautifully simplify things but not dumb it down…what mic would you use if you wanted to record a piano? Thanks again.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Go with a pencil condenser or large diaphragm condenser.

[@chandruvijayasekar6183]

@@MarkPayneAudio Thanks very much.....

[@mattwills87]

10+ years out of practice but we all have our go to mics AKG d112 for me not just for kick but the odd bass cab. I don't think you can be an engineer if your best friends aren't a few 57s and 58s. yeah 414s because I doubt I'd risk a u87 being dropped. but dead right on the Tbone stuff cheap cheerful and great for anyone starting out or working with youths in a college studio.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Amen!

[@izansengun]

Greak video again! Much love and respect!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Appreciate that

[@pianoah]

thank you for helping with all these info.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

No problem

[@nikolaykovalenkosinger-1410]

You also forgot to mention that the Beta 58 and Beta 57 have different foam! The 57 has a much thinner foam!

[@glimpsesoftexas3955]

Well Done Sir ! This is excellent :)

[@inklipMedia]

15:30 mic polar pickup patterns demonstrated simply using graphics and real-time presentation sound.

[@CellarStudioProductions]

Hey! Have you had a chance to check out the SE Electronics V7? I quite like it on voices that need better high frequency response than the usual suspects in this price range can provide.

[@alexkazares9976]

Don’t stop to record new videos!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Not sure if this is a complement or not :-).. maybe Alex is saying... "please never make another video"!

[@DJTOMB96]

@@MarkPayneAudio He wants more, and we all want MORE Videos! You’re doing an excellent job, best on KZbin. Most informative and educational videos I have seen on here. Thank you for your videos!

[@willianmelo2669]

@@DJTOMB96 Totally agree with Brian! You make absolutely simple to understand things

[@BurninSven1]

Thanks for sharing this is supergood info, gear4music have some pen condencers too that are cheap and sound pretty good

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Cool!

[@algarvemike]

Great video Mark. Thankyou

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thanks

[@Fabios-br]

Congratulations Mark, the best lesson on mics on the YT. I don't need to listen to anything else after this! I'm far away from you (Brazil) but I know now what to buy even if I'm on a low budget. Nothing like the knowledge of someone who lives of a subject. Never saw someone talking about the MD435 and it was a great find. Very hard to find it here because it's so much expansive for us, but I'll save the tip for any intl trip in the future. I play chromatic harmonica and most top players use a SM58 because you know it's a classic and the frequency range is quite similar to the voice but as the sound is produced by free metallic reeds, the higher frequencies are almost of a brass instrument and I think the MD435 would produce a very interesting output. If you ever have a chance to record one harmonic on it, please let me know; I also study sound quality a lot as I'm an Electrical Engineer too. Thanks for the video, lovely British accent! Already saved to a playlist and subscribed to your Channel.

[@madrooster7]

The classic harmonica mic is the Green Bullet, which also is very cheap, though be advised it does need a preamp pedal to integrate well into a spund system. It somewhat depends on if you're going for the classic blues sound or trying to do something new, because the green bullet is objectively a bad frequency/dynamic response; it just happens to pair really well with harmonica. Also because traditionally harmonica is closeiced and very loud, and producing a lot of air, a very detailed mic will be vulnerable to those things even more. I also suggest trying out the worst, cheapest mics you can find on harmonica, because a dirty, midrangey sound actually works well there. Stuff out of karaoke machines and home tape recorders.

[@madrooster7]

Typo- Close miced, not closiced

[@Fabios-br]

@@madrooster7 many thanks for the answer, totally agree with blues/rock/pop.. approach. But the challenge for us is the chromatic harmonica for Classical/Jazz. As you said, and I totally agree, very loud and lot of air. As Toots Thielmann used an SM58, many after him just used it, but we have to be very careful when playing because of the problems already mentioned and also avoiding the instrument touching the mic, silly but happens sometimes. There is one guy in US that makes and sell a model, a SM58 with a volume knob on the body because the player can control the volume. In a gig is helpfull, but still not the best solution. Because your attention gets divided sometimes. Instead of playing you have to keep remembering to low the volume. Anyway, if you have any other tip I would be very glad to listen. Thanks again.

[@baptistec.4546]

Thanks Mark, this is very instructive and complete 👍 Which well balanced dynamic mic would you recommend around $150 for vocals home-recording ? I sing some Steely Dan, Michael MacDonald, Christopher Cross etc. Thank you, again :)

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Shure Beta 58 .. cant go wrong.

[@baptistec.4546]

@@MarkPayneAudio thank you very much, Mark ! 😉

[@matahari1576]

Can you recomend the MD 435 for voiceover and Audiobook production? My room isn’t bad, but not fully protected. Because of that, I wanted to go with a dynamic mic. I own already own the Sennheiser e865.

[@kyledsullivan]

Really great info Mark!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Glad it was helpful!

[@philosophieduparadoxe]

*Fabulous video, thank you sir !*

[@MarkPayneAudio]

So nice of you

[@proyectoJAROCHO]

Thank you for explaining it so clear and simple for everyone. Great video

[@inklipMedia]

13:10 ‘Best mic isn’t always the right mic’ - vocalist needs loud monitoring, and that may not work with the best- or best-sounding mic.

[@paulmapp8306]

Considering an MD435 - currently using a Beyer V70 which also has that top end (and a Beta 57a which is a nice general purpose mic), but its not great with plosives. Not sure how well (if at all) you know the V70 though to make a comparrison.

[@madrooster7]

Great intro to mics I sent to some of my trainees- though I have a few taste differences in daily driver mic kit, still staying in the same price range. My star vocal mic is the SE V7, sometimes with a Soyuz Launcher if I want more saturation or higher levels into the preamp. I don't like the senny drum mics, largely because of the non-repairable enclosure problem, but also because there are better sounding things, also more durable and in same price range. AKG Drum Set Session I, with an SE V7X on the snare. MXR 606 on the hats, similar to what you've got, though even cheaper. Pair of senny 609s for guitars, (Though the AKG tom mics also work well for that) then the vocalists get one of these, (I bring one of each) dependent on what genre, what the lead vocals are doing, etc: AKG D5, Senny e835, SM 87a, and a couple 58s just to fill out the roster, which I'd also like to replace with 58 alternatives that fit well into this lineup. Sometimes I'll break out a D112 if the AKG P2 is a bit too bass heavy, and I'll use the same mic I would system tune with, the behringer ecm3000 ($50) as an ambient/crowd mic for live recording/streaming. I also have an extra pair of those AKG P170s for horns, strings, etc, though do like the clip-ons and have been experimenting with a few different things there, haven't settled on a winner yet. Big fan of wired lavs for video production; it's most of the benefits of wireless systems, without the cost.

[@inklipMedia]

27:25 why do vocalists back off the mic? The monitoring is too hot.

[@titogargamuza4935]

great video Mark, thank you!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

My pleasure!

[@jbaranowski1990]

How about using live condenser mic in home studio recording? good idea or better use ldc/more expensive dynamic for that application? Can $200-400 mic can provide 'pro' results?

[@willianmelo2669]

amazing content! really helpful

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Glad it was helpful!

[@user-ig7nq7pc7k]

Nice. One correction: The Beyer M88 (and TG88) is NOT a ribbon; it is a dynamic. I have one. Love it for certain things.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Got it! Thanks

[@MarkFoxOfficial]

Excellent video.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thank you very much!

[@einjarjar]

Btw, the only difference between e904 and e604 is the enclosure. They use the same capsule, etc. However the stiffer enclosure results to tighter sound and better transient response.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Fine... my issue with the e904 is its self weight bouncing around on the clip.

[@einjarjar]

@@MarkPayneAudio Yes. The clip itself isn't the best. I've seen some people switching them to Audix clips and K&M clips. Personally I've switched pretty much to Beyerdynamics TG D35/D57/TG58's. They have a really good price/quality/fun-ratio.

[@kevinmcvey]

Great video. Well done!

[@inklipMedia]

20:00: monitoring: use both ears of your performer! Focus monitor fill from the opposite side of the performer of any loud stage noise (drum kit, guitar amp, loud keys fill). The effective perceived monitoring volume is +6dB due to the low-noise ear getting the monitor fill.

[@redworkshop3314]

Hi there, did you gave a chance to behringer's microphone ? :)

[@jirgis13]

Newbie here. Great video. Learned a lot

[@APMTenants]

Is there are reason you don’t use SM57/58 non-beta? I don’t do live sound, but I own a beta 57, and I find it a bit hyped in the top end. Always seem to come back to the original 57/58s, which I have several of.

[@Dunk0The0Punk]

Hi Mark Thanks for sharing your microphone secrets, what are you thoughts on using Logic for live recording of a full concert ? how would you setup Logic to run for over 2 hours ? I ve seen some feed back about changing the Time signature to 60Bpm and some people also suggest that you change the File format to CAF ?

[@JohnOShaughnessy]

Hi Mark, it's been a while since you uploaded any new videos. Have you been really busy now the pandemic has eased? BTW a great video, I'll use it as a reference for people working with me

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thanks John. Honestly the YT thing was a pandemic project for me and being a Grandad and sailing has taken a lot of my time. I have been thinking of doing more as we look at winter but its a lot of work :-)

[@JohnOShaughnessy]

@@MarkPayneAudio yep, it is a lot of work producing a video. It was work well done.😎

[@nikitaptashko3430]

Very informative. Thank you!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Glad it was helpful!

[@DavidJadunath]

Thank you very much.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Welcome

[@vmtz2001]

I don’t know about mics, but in a speaker, the coil IS the magnet. The electricity running through the coil creates the magnetic field.

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Ok well... in a speaker there is a stator (permanent magnet) and an armature (the coil). The coil is not really "the magnet", the magnet surrounding the coil is "the magnet". Yes, as you send a signal to the coil it creates a magnetic field and this interacts with the permanent magnetic field from the stator and the resultant interaction creates movement.

[@pedroahets]

Great video!!!!thanks!!!!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thanks!

[@feoul92]

Hello mark! It's been a while since you last posted anything... And i remember you talking about not feeling well the last time we spoke. I hope you've been doing well. Also, waiting for your next video :D

[@MarkPayneAudio]

I am well. Just been prioritising other things!

[@JuusoHoo]

great tips thanks!!!

[@keysey72]

Excellent video!

[@musicandres]

Hi Mark i hope you are well

[@johnwade7430]

Wow.... that warehouse must have some security;-)

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Indeed! Watch out for the dogs!

[@3-piece129]

Which microphone should I use to make me sound like Steve Perry?

[@melodology-5383]

Hello, any recommendations for a mic that can fight the nasty feedback on live stages? I'm micing my acoustic guitar for live shows and I don't really use any Piezo or transducer. Sharing the stage with 8 musicians and it's a nightmare to organize the speaker monitors which creates all kinds of feedback. A recommendation for a mic that can handle feedbacks (somehow at least) would be appreciated. My budget is around 300 EUR Thank you

[@11000038]

No BS! excellent!

[@inklipMedia]

32:58: favorite: sennheiser MD435

[@inklipMedia]

30:05: beta58 is engineered for live pa (monitors and FOH speaker tonalities, etc)

[@petelangford3565]

The cost of the sennhieser is prohibative for your average "bar band". Ibought a couple of sE V7's that are great with my 58Beta's

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Excellent

[@ferruizmusico8126]

Hi!! I would like your opinion about the mackie mr 524 monitors. Are good? I don't know if to Buy this ir Adams t5v. In order To mix, produce and listening to music. I need something versatile un that Range of price

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Hmm, I have not heard either of these so it is hard to comment. I personally use the very inexpensive Tannoy Reveal monitors. You would want the Tannoy Reveal 502 as an equivalent size to the Mackie you mention.

[@ferruizmusico8126]

@@MarkPayneAudio are they good???

[@ddimento8790]

great info thanks

[@mverk]

Thank you very much! Good job! From russia with respect!

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Thank you too!

[@softsmoken]

"They always have they're amps to loud don't they" lol.. you touched on drummer and guitar how about the bassist? That Bell mic could do with a filling of silicone...

[@נדבמלמן]

Are you sure the beyerdynamic m88 is a ribbon? Sources state otherwise

[@MarkPayneAudio]

I could well be wrong!

[@kniferideaudio]

Every festival backline rental mic pack of all time: A big box of Beta 58's, a handful of SM57's and a Beta 52 or AKG D112. Sometimes if you are lucky you get a pair of SM81's in there too. Shure owns utilitarian live sound.

[@Joethedrummer]

M88 is a ribbon???

[@MarkPayneAudio]

Apparently not!

[@samuelsalins8309]

Thanks ✨️👍

[@PandaPotPies]

Do a warehouse tour video

[@MarkPayneAudio]

I could do that. I am retired now. I founded SFL Group with Graham Preston here in the UK back in 1992 ish. We went on to build a large a/v production company that d&b audiotechnik purchased outright around 2021 and SFL became d&b Solutions UK. Our company then absorbed Whitelight. I have not been back to the warehouse for a least a year.

[@dogefrommoon7320]

Great dirty secrets!!