Probe Type Low Water Cut Off For Steam Boiler Still Working After 25+ Years

[@echokiloecho]

Thank you Gordon. Your videos have convinced me to change from W-M 47-2 to an electrode type LWCO.

[@Bob.W.]

If we weren't selling our steam heated home I would do the same.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

You are most welcome!

[@scottk0623]

I remember them when they first appeared on the scene, it was like voodoo lol. I remember everyone saying “ these things will never work” . That ell below it is really crusty looking, good thing the LWCO works. Thanks for a walk down memory lane.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

I felt the same way about these probe type safety controls...they're no good & they'll never last! HA! Glad, so glad, to be proven wrong. That's partly why I made this video.

[@nykid8849]

another helpfull video ,hay buddy I need to repalce a low water cutt off from safegard similar type like in video, model OEM/170-TD, replacing with safgard 170, my question the feeder on the boiler is 120volts , & my gas vavle & thermostat is 24volts , seems like I would need to remove jumper on H & P1 & use p1 & p2 to feed 120volts to transformer on the boiler in normal operation & feed 24volts to gas vavle, not much cotnrols on the boiler it's a well mclain series 3 steam model PE-5 ,, wanted to get your thoughts

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Thanks! If it were me, I'd consider buying & installing a new VXT-24 feeder to simplify the wiring.

[@nykid8849]

@@gordonschweizer5154 yes , but the 120 feeder was recently installed, I dont think owner would want me to repalce it, going back to the wiring method I explained , u think this would be the best way togo ?

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Someone else recently installed a 120 volt feeder on an atmospheric gas boiler that normally runs on 24 volt controls? Did I understand that correctly? If so, my advice to replace the feeder (and properly wire it) still stands. I am also not sure the Safegard 170 is the best control to use. Check with Hydrolevel Tech support. Remember, I can't see what you can see. I could be very wrong. I haven't met your customer. I don't know your full situation. I'm just some guy on KZbin. And so, having said that, I am sorry but I really can't advise you further except to say check everything with a working volt meter, & assume nothing. Good luck & stay safe.

[@airmech5083]

Told a customer a year ago on a maintenance check up that the lwco is defective not shutting down the boiler, he says he'll "think about it" when quoted the price. This year the boiler crack, after a few other company quotes, he chose me to replace his boiler.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

If that had been me, with my luck, the boiler would have cracked the next day, and the customer would have tried to make a claim that I broke it. I'm glad it took a year to fail so you were off the hook. I hope that the reason you won the bid was *not* that you were the low bidder. Be well. Stay safe.

[@airmech5083]

@@gordonschweizer5154 the customer has 2 other companies visit for diagnostics and quotes. He calls me lastly around 8pm on friday saying he couldn't fine my number to ask my price after giving another company to do the job next monday. I give him regular price , it was higher than another company for monday. But I beat the other company by having the boiler delivered by 9am next morning, my junk guy shows up at 11am pull the old boiler out from the basement then we slide the new boiler down the stairs. A trip to supply house to thread few pieces of pipes. I was done by 5pm because I made my job easy by selecting an exact matching boiler. One trip one day!

[@gordonschweizer5154]

@@airmech5083 Well done! That was an inspiring story!

[@dannywilkins887]

Did the relief valve have no blowdown pipe Gordon?

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Yes, that is correct. One of many issues.

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

Gordon, I would be very interested if you made a video comparing the 1 inch Warren Webster 0026T with the Barnes & Jones 42T. Supposedly the second can be used as a direct replacement for the first - but it is rebuildable whereas the Webster is not. This is something that I have been trying to really trying to figure out, but it is just beyond my current knowledge level.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

I did not know that the B&J #42T is a direct replacement for the 0026T. I will certainly look into that. Other videos that I want to make will have to take pesidence, however. I've made a few videos on the Warren Webster series of traps and they have very low viewership numbers. Actually, I've got factory old stock internal replacement parts for the 0026T gathering dust on my shelves.

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

@@gordonschweizer5154 I watched all of your videos about those WW traps. Absolutely priceless information - helped me understand what the challenges involved are in getting them going. Unfortunately I have four of them to deal with - they all have tags showing last repaired in 1985-86 !

[@gordonschweizer5154]

@@FirstLutheranAlbany Thank you for your reply! Are your 0026Ts the "old" style where you have to remove the 5 bolts/whole cover to get to the thermostatic element or are they the "new" style with the removable cap? Its usually the element that goes bad and it's *way* easier to replace that, then the whole trap. You are fortunate if that 1985 repair tag is accurate. All too many traps out there are never touched at all until it's too late.

[@FirstLutheranAlbany]

@@gordonschweizer5154 I think its the "new" style. I snapped a picture just now: i.imgur.com/4Q0lLR8.jpg Also, for the benefit of posterity: Here is the tag that is on the trap! i.imgur.com/qS1K8Nl.jpg

[@elgordo271]

@@FirstLutheranAlbany Thank you for the pics! Yes, that is the "new" style. That means you should be able to rebuild the thermostatic element at least. That narrows it down to three Barnes & Jones cage unit #: 3479, 4113 or 4020. My guess is the 3479. See if you can find if you have a TD-1-2 or TD-1-4. That might be cast into the body somewhere or on a brass tag painted over. And better news, the bolts should come out. I'm I sure? Not 100%, but I've noticed over the years that for some reason when things are covered with thick layers of paint, bolts come out! Another question: what is happening to lead you to the theory that the traps are bad? Water Hammer? (not to gainsay that after 35 years, they don't need attention anyway!)

[@Guyhakverdi]

Can you have float type low water cut offs and probe type in series? Is that a common practice?

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Yes, you *can* have a float type LWCO and a probe type LWCO wired in series. Usually, the float type also runs a boiler feed pump, while the probe type is of the manual reset type. This set-up is mostly on larger boilers, but not always. Otherwise, its best if both LWCOs are of the probe type in my opinion, and also not to have any boiler feed pump at all, because gravity is always on.

[@Guyhakverdi]

@@gordonschweizer5154 thank you so much

[@l.crossjr]

How can you tell the boiler water level if there is no sight glass or try cocks in place? (Hot water)

[@gordonschweizer5154]

In a hot water boiler, it should be completely full of water. The whole system should be full of water (except the expansion tank). Modern (2012) hot water boilers should also have low water cut-offs.

[@pb7379-j2k]

20-25 years? That was 2000 😂 That font hasn’t been seen in the wild since 1974!

[@gordonschweizer5154]

At 1:05, is the date code May 31 1994 or 1984? Customer said he has been in the home since 1997(?), and mentioned the previous owner installed this boiler new "a few years" prior. So 25+ years is a better estimate. I cannot vouch for the date of the font, but I would say the control is no earlier than 1984.

[@pb7379-j2k]

Gordon Schweizer or maybe 1974, reused from prior boiler!

[@gordonschweizer5154]

@@pb7379-j2k That date code does not look like 1974.

[@bauhnguefyische667]

You get a surprise every once in a while. Ugly but works. Nice looking install, not really. Kinda believe you didn’t install it.

[@gordonschweizer5154]

Thanks! Good to hear from you as always! The install is all steel and more or less to spec, so it didn't offend me too much. Feeding the boiler directly with water was a big no-no, but this one is a survivor, so here's to it getting thru one more heating season.