Problems wet tumbling? Brass is dingy gray, or tarnished reddish hue? Here are my lessons learned.

[@dougkapounek9024]

Went out and pick up the ZEP and followed your advice and pins are really nice and shinny and brass is coming out like new again. Thanks Soooooo Much ! ! !

[@TreeTopFlier]

Out freaking standing! Thanks for watching!

[@prinzeugenvansovoyen732]

nice that this works out for you i cheap out and use car polish with milling chips and 4mm small ballbearing balls in my drum and i wash the thick grease and burn residue off my brass with gasoline that my lawnmower afterwards consumes on a regular basis - if i need to clean out the car polish residues i also use gas but i reuse it meny times and store it after a while I remove the abrasive residue on the buckets bottom if it gets to much and i get get the grease/abrasive compound film on the gas with a paper towel from time to time I also made my own drum with an electric motor from an very old handheld bucket colour and concrete mixer

[@62dobie]

@@TreeTopFlier, how many oz's of Zep do you use to clean your brass?

[@BadRickey]

You can get the cleanest results by using a small amount of dawn dish washing detergent and a small amount of brasso. I also put 4 ,1 inch squares of a dish scrubbing pad. Sponge on one side and scotch bright on the other. Looks like new😮.

[@rohawaha]

And five years later this video is still helping people. I switched to the homemade Lanolin case lube that is all the rave on KZbin and now I just can't get that shiny brass effect, they are gray and oily . This helps , and it is the only video I have found on the subject . Thanks

[@TreeTopFlier]

Hey thats great! I probably need to make an update to this video. I have tended toward water soluble lubes and increased the amount of dish detergent I'm using and maybe a pinch more lemi-shine. I've not needed to do a hard clean on the pins and drum nearly as often and still getting great results. The residual seems to be a product of the oily lubes combined with the soot.

[@chuck8946]

Thank you for taking time to share this. I am new to reloading and have struggled for nice shinney brass using my wet tumbler. I've used Dawn and Lemi Shine, only to have my brass turn a rose color. My original failed thought with these two products was - more is better, but now I know quite the contrary. I tried your method and also used the litmus paper to get the optimal PH and it worked perfectly. I've yet to have brass turn out looking as good as my last batch, by following your advice. Thanks again friend!

[@TreeTopFlier]

Hey thats great! Glad this was helpful.

[@dnalsinamon3137]

I run a Thumler's Model B tumbler with SS pins. I've used Dawn dishwashing soap and Lemi Shine for years. Never had a problem. The key is don't use too much of either one.

[@GalloPazzesco]

Upvoted! The wife went by and picked-up the Purple Industrial Grade Zep for me (do not got the citrus orange - make sure it is the purple) and WOW were my pins dirty! What a difference it makes! I'll add one more thing in addition to keeping your pins clean (which you'll have to do every three or four batches) and that is I now prewash and rinse my cases, hot and fast so that the alkaline doesn't turn the brass rose colored, prior to running the brass in my tumbler. Rubber gloves in a big stainless steel mixing bowl in a very light solution of a capful of Zep and a gallon of very hot tap water ... it gets rid of a lot of crud prior to the tumbling. I rinse well then I go back to Dawn and clean pins and Lemishine and voila ... every batch is a like new batch. This video was da bomb! Most excellent! Muchos gracias! (EDITED: capful of Zep NOT cupful ... I hate autocorrect.)

[@TreeTopFlier]

Awesome, so glad you got some use out of the content.

[@hardybirch3630]

I have experienced exactly the same varying results that you have and really appreciate listening to your thoughts and problem solutions. The litmus test paper is a stroke of genius......really useful, inexpensive and effective. Thanks

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thanks so much!

[@cowturdpies]

Great Video. Thanks for the hard work and analysis... I remember when I started... frustrating but very rewarding. I went through the dingy brass problem about 5 years ago and solved with Dawn Dish Detergent, (whatever the latest version happens to be... 3x now I believe), HOT water, lemishine and TRIPLE COLD WATER RINSE PRIOR TO REMOVING MEDIA AND BRASS FROM TUMBLER after an hour of tumbling. I'm on city water. I was right about to begin the litmus tests as you have when I happened on a lengthy engineering article on how soap worked. And this guy recommended Dawn... so I tried it... and VOILA... my problems were over. My takeaway on the soap article is the soap has got to hold the dirt and crap in suspension until you rinse it out of there... and that is where my triple rinse began. I use a Thumler's Tumbler rock tumbler, slow rotating version, 5 llbs steel media, 8 pounds HOT water and up to 3 lbs brass (that's a 1 lb overload), 2 heaping teaspoons Dawn (heaping... poured like a generous bartender) and a pinch of lemishine. (If memory serves... I believe slow version is 1.5K RPM motor vice 3K RPM Motor). The triple rinse is after an hour of tumbling, remove top and take drum with dirty water, brass and media and dump dirty soapy water in gutter (I'm on Septic Tank) and then retire to deep sink and thoroughly hand rinse contents and change water at least 3 times, cold water... this rinses brass and media and the drum. Media is always bright and shiny. Brass is immaculate. Drum is clean. I always carry a mechs telescoping pocket magnet for media retrieval... those little guys get away all over. Deep sink has screen in drain. Extract brass, dry, and tumble in corncobs 30 min (I use lyman vibrator) with a capful of NUFINISH (Orange bottle in Walmart Auto). Then size, bulge bust, trim, prime, load and shoot. It will take at least 3 rinses to get rid of all the suds. I have also used the Thumler for dry corncob polish but don't care for the back & forth wet/dry media changeover process... nothing mechanical... just messy. I pick up some of the raunchiest range brass others won't touch... sort.... decap with Lee decapper.... and tumble. and the results are magnificent... shiny like new, in & out... no chemicals... no corrosive action.... clean media. When I started I had some awful dingy problems... blamed on water and everything else... the 3 fresh water rinses to clean that media and tumbler drum made the difference for me. Best part of the deal is... you are rinsing EVERYTHING... WHILE THE SOAP STILL HAS ALL THE DIRT IN SUSPENSION. Good shooting, Leadsquirter

[@fredmertz2175]

Ozark Hogfarmeru

[@mrgruisinge]

Well, I got a story too. Came up with the same problem, dirty pins, brass that wasn't shiny. First thing I noticed was as I was rinsing my pins after use my hands got dirty and greasy. Broke out the Zep and cleaned the pins with some hot water and Zep only in the tumbler. That left the pins bright and shiny, not dull grey. I use lanolin lube for sizing. Found if I prewash after sizing in warm water with Dawn to get the lube off, my pins stay clean. I just swirl them in a bucket for a bit. For the tumbling I use a teaspoon of Hornady sonic clean, that's all. My brass comes out brilliant. My tumbler is fair sized and uses about 2-1/2 to 3 gallons of water and 15 pounds of pins. Lemi Shine (citric acid) costs too much for me so I just used the citric acid and Dawn for awhile till I tried the Sonic Clean. Not going back. Tried ultrasonic too but that kind of 'ate' my brass up. Etched, I would say. To get the pins out of the cases try putting them in a RCBS media separator full of water. Pins all fall out quick

[@ColonelK0rn1]

Good information. I found that Lemi Shine is indeed too expensive. Some food-grade citric acid is very cheap, and is can be purchased for half the price of Lemi Shine. I don't need it to smell like lemons if it's going into my brass. I think they just add the lemon scent for use in the kitchen and charge more for it!

[@robblund3363]

So after watching this video a couple of times and getting down what you did I went out to Lowes and bought the ZEP product you suggested as a cleaner for the media and the brass. WORKED INCREDIBLY WELL! I left the de-greaser and the media/brass and tumbled for 10 minutes as you suggested. Drained and rinsed and then did the dawn and lemishine for 2 hours. BOOM! The brass was incredibly clean! The brass was super dull originally from the different chemical reactions you were outlining and just couldn't get it clean and shiney. Thus why I found your video. This worked perfect.. And I will do this every time. Thankyou!

[@Shnick]

For the Frankford Arsenal rotary tumbler, I use 8 lbs pins, not 5. Teaspoon of dawn, 9mm caseful of lemishine and a 2 hour run. Separate the media using a frankford arsenal quick n ez media separator installed in a 5 gallon bucket. Tumble brass, dump into the separator, rinse in the tub and it all goes down the drain. Dry brass in a food dehydrator after a shake in a towel. Brass gets shiny, stainless pins get cleaned too.

[@emjartan45acp]

You're Absolutely correct, when I started wet tumbling I thought more lemon shine equal better results. I didn't realize what was happening. To make my cases rose color. Until I backed off on the lem shine. Now 2 9mm case fulls for a very large batches at most. But I'm gonna get that test paper just to be sure. 👍👌

[@coopermcwhirter3523]

For over a year I’ve used the Frankfort Arsenal wet tumbler. In addition to using stainless steel media, Lemon Shine, and dishwashing liquid I use the following ingredients: distilled water (not tap water), a half cup of white vinegar. My brass is not shiny; it stays shiny for weeks and even months! Try it. You’ll like it! Cooper, Springfield, MO

[@Bogie3855]

I use Dawn dish detergent and Lemmi shine. That seems to work the best of all. I have the big Thumler and use it a lot.

[@hardybirch3630]

I have had the same problems and experiences. Sharing your discoveries is very helpful and saves a boatload of time required to re-clean and re-shine a batch of brass. I am going to order the Ph test as soon as I finish writing this note. Thanks

[@TreeTopFlier]

I hope this works out for you...good luck.

[@G5Hohn]

I had the scuz happen badly on a large batch of .223. I ran a small batch right after it without problem. I concluded it’s ok to go a little heavier on the Dawn. Also, rinsing IN THE DRUM seems to help.

[@6h471]

I found that in my Lyman cyclone wet tumbler, as much Lemishine as I can pinch between my thumb and finger is all that's required, with a teaspoon of dawn.

[@tjmooremusic]

Hi . Just thought I'd chip in. I like to give a quick wash not in a tumbler but just a big jar with hot water and blue Dawn dish soap then rinse and dry before depriming, decapping. Whatever you call it so as not to handle the dirty brass and get my press and die dirty ... I know it takes time but it is for me a reasonable step in the process. Then I can tumble the brass with no primers. Thanks and please pardon my spelling. ..

[@TreeTopFlier]

Ive changed over time but I usually bring my range brass home and use a lee universal de capper knock out all the primers then tumble.

[@ralphwatten2426]

I use a decapping die, put the brass in an ultrasonic cleaner, then resize. I bought the stuff to make the pvc drum and will start on that tomorrow. Certainly is nice of Tree Top Flier to share his studies with us.

[@SamLFisher]

Lemi and Turtle Wax's Zip wax are what I use. And I couldnt be happier with it. The water is always so black afterwards. Sometimes the brass is so dirty though I have to put the brass in for a short run first to remove the worst. Then a normal run. Never disappointed.

[@williamkowalchik572]

Exactly what I use. Shoot me I decap everything first I like a clean primer pocket. With carbide does the little bit of wax makes resizing smooth.

[@q-man762]

Lube tends to emulsify and when the solution cools it settles on the brass again inside and out. I decap the brass and wet tumble coming out perfectly shiny and then size it followed by dry media to remove the lube. Feel better sizing really clean brass.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Most of what controls your outcomes is a good relationship between the type lube you use and the cleaning product ratios used. Always good to size cleaned brass, especially if you think it picked up some dirt.

[@1088frog]

i was having similar problems and discovered a residue on my pins and tumbler walls. I put a 9mm case or two of Purple Simple Green and it cleaned everything up. It is probably a similar product to your Zep. Thanks for the video and sharing your experience

[@chipsrus2422]

Nice; you solved my problem. I was using the Dillon case lube and my 3rd batch of cases started getting dull. 10 minutes with ZEP degreaser/water and pins followed by 2nd pass of 1 hour of water/large squirt of dawn/ and Tbs of lemi-shine (with pins) gave me awesome brass again.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Awesome! Thanks for the feed back.

[@mrhupen]

Wow. Great video. Very informative. Thank you for sharing.

[@ralphwatten2426]

I'm going to start on my pvc drum tomorrow. Thanks TreeTopFlier for all your studies into the subject. I think the slick stuff in your pvc tube is called extruding wax. The tube I picked up from my neighborhood plumber doesn't have that so I'm going to try to use pvc cement to glue 1/2" tall pieces of the pipe walls to the inside of the drum. Thanks again, Ralph-

[@TreeTopFlier]

Ralph, In the larger diameter PVC pipes there are two varieties. One (used in this video) which is the most common found in big box stores is DWV or Drain Waste Vent, all so called foam core it has a glazing inside. This is used in sewer applications. Then there is schedule 40 pressure pipe and this is PVC all the way, rated up to 220 PSI. Not sure what you got but if you got a good bond it may be pressure pipe. That would be the easiest to use. Hope it worked out.

[@psykoklown874]

Good info. It's always good to learn new ways of doing things. I use a Frankford Arsenal wet tumbler, and have found that more than 1/4 tsp of Lemishine/citric acid can cause discoloring and duller brass. I've been getting really good results using a Tbsp of Dawn and 1/4 tsp Lemishine or citric acid in hot water and run them for 1.5 hrs. Then I rinse and run everything (brass and pins) in clean hot water for 1/2 hr. When using lanolin based lube, I've found it best to limit it to 375 (5#) .223 casings in the FA tumbler. When necessary, I clean my pins by tumbling them in 1 tsp Dawn and hot water for about 1/2 hr. I think that running my brass with the pins in clean water helps keep them clean a little longer. I got some of the Dawn Professional (a.k.a Dawn Manual Pot and Pan) cheap at Sam's, and from what I've read, it's the top grade of Dawn.

[@TreeTopFlier]

It seems that some lubes are more persistent than other lubes so some people find a pretty gentile solution does the job while it doesn't cut it for other folks like myself. I think the biggest culprit are the sizing wax lubes. Thanks for watching.

[@psykoklown874]

I haven't tried any of the wax lubes, just lanolin based lubes. The homebrew Dillon lube (lanolin/alcohol). Also anhydrous lanolin/castor oil swage lube.

[@TreeTopFlier]

I use the waxes for forming blackout from 223 so I think that is were I picked up the problem. I have had lots of other folks with the same issue. The pistol only guys seem to be fine.

[@barkingshark6413]

Psyko Klown ...exactly my recipe. Less is more.

[@tripplebeards3427]

In my HF double rock tumbler 1/4 tsp of lemi shine, 1 TBS of dish washing liquid and four hours of tumbling for 4 hours in most scenarios makes my brass looks mirror finish. Sometimes I let my tumbler go overnight and they still look like a mirror finish. To little lemi shine will give your brass a military green look. To much will turn them orange/pink in color. Leave them on to long and they get matte green regardless if my mix is correct or not. It kinda looks neat...Like lacquered steel cases. Been experimenting when I bought my HF tumbler since 2014’.

[@backnine]

I use the Frankford Arsenal tumbler/Dawn 3X and Lemonshine. I run for about 2 hours. I dump the solution and put fresh water and a tee spoon of baking soda and run for 15 minutes. I then rinse very well in fresh water. If you don't neutralize the lemonshine it with tarnish the brass when it drys.

[@JackLyons00]

The baking soda part is what a lot of people miss. I use an ultrasonic cleaner and always do a quick second clean with just a little baking soda and distilled water to neutralize

[@mab0852]

Sometime with really cruddy range brass, I run hot water and Dawn (no media) for 15-20 minutes, switch water, add media and run as normal. Seems to really help keep the crud down and keep my media cleaner longer. That was my response to the grayish residue on my brass. Steel cases cause the same thing if you miss a couple while sorting.

[@williamleiby3150]

Did you ever get the 300 BO case to shine like new? I have a batch with that dingy gray case lube coating. After degreasing the pins and tumbler the next batch shines like new in a fraction of the time. Id still like to save the dingy batch though.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Sure did, just run them again! It depends on what the tarnish is. If it's carbon and sizing lube from dirty pins you can run them with the solution you used to clean the pins. Just for like 5 min then rinse them clean and run a normal cycle. If you leave them too long they will darken brown with tarnish. If the problem is the dark brown tarnish then just run them again with a proper acid leaning solution. The pins and solution will usually nock the tarnish off

[@Stevesmith-yw7cr]

I do the same but I run LemiShine and industrial cleaner both at the same time. I run the brass with very hot water and run it for about an hour. Comes out super clean and with that brass look.

[@gdubbsmotolife9713]

Brilliant. You are running a neutral ph doing it that way. No brass damage. Almost everybody else missed this idea. 👏 🧠

[@Jeff_Seely]

Very helpful indeed. Thank you. I think maybe a strong acid and a strong alkaline May dissolve the zinc but I am not sure on that. But that is why I have not tried the vinegar bit. Vinegar is a pretty strong acid when it is not diluted

[@TreeTopFlier]

Give it a try just check on them every little bit. If they start turning, stop and give them a rinse.

[@Jeff_Seely]

Fair enough. I got some range brass that will test this well and I'll give a follow-up

[@bradwright3846]

Great video. Thanks for the tips

[@murrayandru7527]

I got myself a cheap sonic cleaner , I run Lemi shine which is Citric acid , buy it in bulk cheaper that off the self . I have never looked back ... slick easy and no fuss work so very well.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Nice!

[@tommaddox1028]

I used to much lemishine they had a. Red tint first time around. Thanks

[@exploregon1720]

Hi all. I've had this problem a number of times in the past and couldn't figure out exactly why it was happening. My cure for this problem was stumbled upon by accident. I had made some 300 blackout brass this weekend where my process requires 2 separate tumblings: one to clean the brass and one to get the lanolin based lube off the cases. The first tumbling on my Thumler's Tumbler Model B came out perfectly shiny using my typical materials, about 200 - 300 dirty cases, 1/4 tsp Lemi Shine, a small squirt of Dawn, 5 pounds of SS pins and the remainder water up to an inch below the rim of the tumbler bowl. As I said, this came out beautiful however after the second round of using this time cleaned brass coated with the lube and everything else the same as the first time around all the brass had the greenish, tarnished look. Even upon touch, I could feel the thin layer of slightly greasiness to each of the cases. Ugly, and while I don't personally care, my customers do like the shininess of my results. Well I thought at this point I was sitting on about 1500 pieces of brass that I was going to have to use myself. After I sat on it for a while I started thinking "what do I have around here that would take off this coating of greasy lanolin?". Looking under the kitchen sink I found my wife's bottle of Krud Kutter. What the heck,... I squirt about 15 pumps of this stuff in the same mixture of ingredients mentioned above minus the Lemi Shine to the green cases and, VIOLA! The Krud Kutter being a very good degreaser restored the shininess of each one of these suckers, maybe even MORE bling than before! I coudn't believe it. So I went to the local store to get more of this stuff as we are down to the last few squirts an they don't carry it! What the heck :-( . I decided to try some Fantastic kitchen degreaser spray so hopefully this works as good as the KK. Will report back if it doesn't. I almost never write lengthy comments but after this experience of years with occasional green cases, I thought everybody should know. Thanks for listening.

[@PassionforRifles]

Thank you for this great video. I have ended to make my brass quite bad tarnish, and thought that what the heck is doind that, now i know why :).Thank´s for this great video.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Im glad you were able to get something out of it.

[@jccviking]

Nice video! I've been tumbling with SS pins for about five years and discovered early on that too much Lemi Shine caused discoloration. However, I didn't understand the science behind it until watching your video. Thanks so much for that. I use a Thumbler's Tumbler and, with water at the brim, I add 1/4 teaspoon of Lemi Shine. To date, I have not experienced the problem you described of my brass not getting clean enough. I use Dawn and the hottest water I can get from the tap (probably north of 140 degrees F). I'm wondering if the hot water is making that difference. I really like your litmus paper idea. Will be ordering some today. Thanks again for an excellent video.

[@archangel20031]

That looks good if you only want to tumble 20 casings. I use a 5 gallon bucket and tumble hundreds of rounds at a time! A half cap of Lemishine, a squirt of Dawn dish washing soap with one bag of SS tumble pins and in a half hour they are bright and shiny!

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thats awesome! The video is primarily about cleaning pins when they get contaminated.

[@darth-vang7573]

Is the Zep degreaser safe on rubber? My Frankford Arsenal wet tumbler has rubber lining, so was wondering if it is.

[@TreeTopFlier]

I wouldnt know for sure, I dont think so. I use it in the rubber drums that came with the harbor freight tumbler without a problem.

[@pschoticc]

Super helpful and super informative video. Thanks for all the work you put into making it.

[@Bogie3855]

Every 5 tumbles I clean the pins. I use ONLY Lemmishine and Dawn. 2 hours ONLY. Longer will also tarnish the brass and start to darken it. I have a Thumler Tumbler with a 1gal drum and have been doing this for years. My brass comes out like factory new.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Nice, what do you use to clean your pins?

[@johanswart8116]

Thanks sitting with same prombleme

[@Badbri2A]

I JUST PUT MY BRASS INTO A JUG,like a milk jug. with vinger, water, 1 real lemon squeeze the juice into jug,some simple green,just cover the brass about 1 inch above, shake and shake turn and shake, for about 10 mins maybe 15mins and dump out, rinse the brass with hot water real good and let dry in the sunn..they come out great..

[@TreeTopFlier]

I don't always use pins because I'm too lazy to separate them. In some cases you could probably get decent results with just water. This video is mostly focused on what you can do when your drum and pins become dirty and are difficult to clean. What you use as a lube product has a lot to do with how bad this condition gets if at all.

[@jonleone777]

I know this is and old vid, but i gavd up on the steel pins. I use 8mm diameter ceramic polishing balls. Work great.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Seems like that would be hard to separate out. Using a magnet to pick up the pins is a nice advantage I think. Thanks for watching.

[@amorn911]

Very good video. I had all of these issues. I live in New York and our water has a high alkaline level and I was forced to use a teaspoon of degreaser and dish soap and distilled water.

[@agrippa2k469]

Ah Ha! It works! I used some "Oil Eater - degreaser cleaner" I had lying around. This may be a problem for those using Hornady Case Lube. It may be just that we tend not to clean it off as you must with the other messy case lubes.

[@TreeTopFlier]

For me its the imperial case lube residual. I like to use it because i never get stuck cases. I wipe down loaded cases with a rag afterwards but it still builds up over time. Good to have a way to decontaminate the equipment. Thanks for commenting and watching

[@agrippa2k469]

I worry about it getting inside the case neck, and Hornady Case Lube only works (doesn't get stuck) with clean cases. I've tried your degreaser/cleaner procedure with Oil Eater and found that 10 min loosens the residue (Lemishine follow up looks great), but it's not long enough for the pins to remove the residue, kinda greasy. I tried 20 and 30 min and the cases come out about as clean as the Lemishine procedure (I still do the Lemishine - almost looks like nickel). I am resigned to the idea that I may have to prewash with degreaser - resize - then wash with Lemishine to really be satisfied. I am expecting it to stabilize my SD/ES.

[@Choronzon39]

I use to use polish treated walnut media and my brass always came out shiny. Just getting back into reloading, so the wet polishing is all new to me.

[@jimmytate7587]

i never use wet polishing. crushed walnut shells always worked great

[@JohnSmith-kg5dv]

Thank you very much for the information and solving my problems. God Bless

[@TheCaptnHammer]

I use a sonic cleaner. It takes about 15 minutes to throw them in there, clean them, and throw them in a towel to dry. They look brand new and I don’t have to sift media at all. It’s also quiet enough I can’t hear it over the a/c. Whatever works, works… but that’s my method and I like it. Plus I can throw my can baffles, BCG, pistol firing group, and whatever else I want to clean in there.

[@m4rvinmartian]

*I've seen a comparison of all 3 types of cleaning... and either your brass isn't "dirty", or you haven't seen tumbler brass.* Tumbler is so much better, it's worth dealing with case lip rolling.

[@TheCaptnHammer]

@@m4rvinmartianI’ve used tumblers. They are noisy, take forever, and produce a dust that is toxic. I totally agree that they do a great job though! Like I said, for me the ultrasonic is much more useful and fast. 😊 I clean all kinds of metal parts in it.

[@jeffgaulden5879]

Good video, like the degreaser idea. Also, not saying your tumbler doesn't work for you but if you ever wondered the thumblers high speed tumbler is great! I have close to 500k cleaned through mine.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thanks! I have no doubt that tumbler is great, also the frankford arsenal tumbler is very nice and purpose built. I already had gone down the path with the HF tumbler and I really don't need more capacity than that for my volume of shooting.

[@VincitOmniaVeritas7]

Important tip: avoid any cleaning solution with ammonium hydroxide like the plague (it is very common in metal “shampoos” sold along wet tumblers as an additive to common dish washer): it attacks the metal and leaves a thin layer of grey/silver residue on the brass that will stay in your fingers and inside your dies. I found out this by accident: when I ran out of the “shampoo” that came with the tumbler, I used common dish washer detergent (like Dawn in the US) since the other ingredient was the same. Only then I realized how this batch of brass wasn’t making my fingers dirty. I always thought that the stainless steel media was probably responsible for this residue and throughly cleaned it with degreaser to no avail. One last thing: some polishing products like Brasso (used in dry tumblers) have

[@micahswandive]

Good video, on your little homebrew. The devil is in the details, so good work finding out the details on acids and bases to know the best answer to your question on how to best tumble and clean brass. This type of inquiring and fact finding is what leads to good load development and accurate shooting. If you were in Oregon I'd want to go shooting with you. Good work brother!

[@TreeTopFlier]

Heck yea, if I still lived in Oregon that would be fun.

[@breakingbolts8871]

thank you sir, these are some of the very issues I experienced and explained. I will work on my solution with your lessons in mind. I appreciate your sharing of your knowledge.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Were you able to resolve your issues?

[@gorillamotors]

You put about one 9mm cartridge of lemon shine to finish cleaning. How much of the Zep purple do you use?

[@DimaProk]

I've been using dish washing soap (any kind works) and lemishine for few years now and no problem with carbon or grease, I never had to "clean" my pins. BTW, I use a lot LESS lemishine than 9mm case-full with really good results. If I want the brass to retain it's shine, after dumping dirty and and soapy water and rinsing I add another portion of lemishine to clean water and submerge the brass or run it for a minute than drain the water, dump it on the towel, pat it dry and let it air dry or sun dry. Had brass that retain it's shine after being stored for a year. I also use the tumbler to remove the sizing lube, but lately I've been using rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle and old rag, I line up about 20 spray it, than cover with other side of rag and roll it back and forth and it removes the lube, works well for smaller quantities when I need 50 or 100 because it's faster and doesn't require drying cases again.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Hi Dima. No dispute that folks may have a variety of results. I'm reasonably sure that case lube, particularly sizing wax residue is responsible for contaminating the pins, so people may or may not have this problem depending on their process. I made the video because I recalled a discussion about this topic years ago on a message board. Then it started to happen to me. It was my hope that someone looking to solve for the conditions in stated in the video might find it informative and helpful. Thanks, as always for watching!

[@mikehenthorn1778]

i use vinegar and a grease cleaner called super clean. it doesn't seem to hurt the case. then again i don't have to run my brass very long.

[@nookroot890]

I see you're using the HF rock tumbler. Do you have a video describing how you built the tumbling tube? I've been using the two tumblers that came with the HF tumbler and they're a PIA. Thanks.

[@Dedstik]

Great video...I've been through the same evolution, even tried dishwasher detergent packs...didn't work well at all. I'm going to try pre-cleaning and see how it works. Thanks for this.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Glad you found it useful...come back and let us know how it went!

[@raymondhorvatin1050]

I've been using a cleaner called Jungle Jake and jet dry cases come out shiny no tarnish or discoloring

[@TreeTopFlier]

That will work, thanks for watching.

[@TheExplosiveGuy]

I've never had a problem with a teaspoon or so of regular Dawn dish soap and a pinch (1/4 teaspoon) of pure citric acid, the key is using as little citric acid as possible with very hot water to avoid discoloring the cases, I've run cases that were completely caked green inside and out that came out shining like gold. For the stubborn oily/greasy ones (like after resizing) I like to add 1/8 the total fluid volume of 90% Isopropyl alcohol on top of the dish soap and citric acid, it cuts right through any oil and grease as long as hot water is used, though I'm sure any degreaser like what was used here is a great option too, so long as it's an effective detergent. I like the low cost of using pure citric acid (I got a 5 pound bag for like $30, it will last me the rest of my life lol) and dawn soap, 95% of the time it gets the job done but its good to have a heavy duty backup plan like alcohol or a degreaser for the last 5%.

[@goosedeathable]

Thanks for the info! Good video.

[@6Sally5]

Thanks for this! Every once in a while, I would get a few cases that were pink and I couldn’t figure out how that happened. I use Mequiers Wash n Wax with a little bit of Lemishine. I kind of always suspected the Lemishine was the cause.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Exactly why I made this video! Thanks, glad you got something from it

[@robertmarin6194]

I have sonic cleaned 100s of different brass casings using a dash (just a sprinkle) of Lemishine. After a couple of cycles, I take the brass out and rinse well under warm water, shake dry in a towel, and then dry in a cheap harbor freight dehydrator. I have only had discoloring issues when I don’t rinse after cleaning. Bottom line, clean is clean. If the primer pocket is clean and you’ve removed the carbon from the casing...discoloring Isn’t really more than a personal like preference. IMO.

[@rustybayonetcom]

Best I found in my platinum fart, 9mm case of lemmon shine and a teaspoon of dawn (takes grease out of your way) for 2 to 3 hours

[@dmattinman]

Finally. 100 responses and someone gives the amount of soap to use. Thanks

[@agrippa2k469]

I've tried your degreaser/cleaner procedure with Oil Eater and found that 10 min loosens the residue (Lemishine follow up looks great), but it's not long enough for the pins to work. I tried 20 and 30 min and the cases come out as clean as the Lemishine procedure (another 30 min with Lemishine - too clean?). I am resigned to the idea that I may have to prewash with degreaser - anneal - resize - then final clean with Lemishine to really be satisfied.

[@TreeTopFlier]

You may want to try running the pins with the Oil eater by themselves, and use a bunch of it.

[@agrippa2k469]

I'm not sure "dirty pins/container" is the primary problem, as you stated that the baked on lube/powder is too much for the lemishine. After 10 minutes with degreaser the cases don't look much better, but the gunk is easy for the Lemishine in just a few minutes. Oil Eater is probably not as strong as the Purple stuff. Ive been using 1/2 cup to 2 cups water (probably still more than necessary).

[@agrippa2k469]

My issue is now is annealing. Gonna build a machine. Your solution really saved my "brass".

[@TreeTopFlier]

check out hot salt annealing...looks promising to me

[@cugir321]

Shot of lemon juice, 1 teaspoon of dish soap...just covered brass with water....shake about once an hour when I'm awake. 24 hours later I drain and rinse real well.....looks good....better then a walnut shell tumble.

[@nilsforseth404]

Saw your 5 year old video. I found the perfect solution to your tarnished brass. The best formula to clean your brass in a wet tumbler is hot water, a pinch of Lemon Shine, 2 cap fulls of car wash and wax along with the stainless steel pins. Tumble for 3 to 4 hours and then drain and rinse until all dirty water is gone. Separate pins from brass and place brass in a bath towel. Fold towel over and roll brass flat with your hands to remove water drops. Lay brass on a cookie sheet and place in oven at 120 degrees for 20 minutes. Your brass will turn out perfect every time.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Been using liquid car wax in dry media tumblers for ages so this makes sense. Thanks for the comment.

[@JohnSmith-kg5dv]

Great video and very helpful. Thank you for passing this on to us. Merry Christmas and happy new year.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thanks, Im glad you got some use out of it. Thanks for watching!

[@curtdudley550]

I soak my cases in hot water and oxi clean. Pull them out after it stops foaming. Rinse and tumble. Dry tumble works pretty good after soaking them but I’ll wet tumble them in water and Lemi Shine if they call for it. I don’t use the pins.

[@willbear8587]

TreeTopFlier, how did you make the tumbler barrel? Thanks

[@TreeTopFlier]

Hey Will, there are two videos on the channel about making the drum. The later one I changed the glue I used for the interruptor.

[@MS-ek6up]

QUIKC QUESTION: DO YOU USE HOT WATER OR NOT?

[@TreeTopFlier]

Hot tap water, yes

[@ssswdon]

I use a squirt of dawn + tide pod + teaspoon of lemishine + 1/2 cup vinegar which gives me ph pf 3-4. Comes out perfect like factory new in a lyman tumbler 3/4 full

[@rogerchien2329]

Which better for brass Acid or alkaline?

[@TreeTopFlier]

I would say acid is better but both are harmful in greater concentrations.

[@stephenalibozek1058]

So my question is I use a Hornady wet Tumblr I use lemme shine and dawn after I clean my cases they come out beautiful nice and bright but after a couple days they start turning a darker color why is that? And do you think I could just re-run them but what solution would you recommend maybe I put too much lemon shine in it

[@TreeTopFlier]

You might have a residue left on the brass that is causing them to start to tarnish. Maybe rinse them of and throw them back in for a bit with fresh water. Also experiment with less Lemi shine as you say. Its a process.

[@stephenalibozek1058]

Yes I understand I did rinse them off good after I took them out so I think the main issue is the lemme shine I will use less and try it out thank you for your help 👍👍

[@olympusmons4089]

I wonder if Simple Green with some Lemishine would work well? Might have to give that a try!

[@TreeTopFlier]

Simple green didn't have enough juice to cut the really stubborn build up in my case.

[@johngilpin3006]

my brass come out rose gold now no why too much lemi shine thank you

[@matthewporter4761]

I find if run the brass with lemie shine and dawn by its self 1st then dry and deprime and start process over and use the pins.. About every 3rd use I run the pins alone with hot water, lemie shine, simple green and the purple stuff. I run them for 1hr and 30min rinse at least 3 times and place in oven two dry for about 4hr on low... What are your thoughts on this process? Good idea or too involved?? Great video... thanks

[@brentmack51]

Me too 15 min like factory

[@1stFlyingeagle]

Well, after watching your vid. I to had dingy brass. So After getting the tumbler and pins cleaned again. I thought, what if I just took cases with spent primers, filled the tumbler, and threw in a heavy amount of dawn and pins, then tumble. The water came out black, the brass was shiny, and there was no residue. So then the other thing I did. Now took the lubed shells and threw them in a rectangular plastic box. Took really hot water and covered the brass. Well, an oil slick came to the surface of the water. So I added dawn again and sloshed the brass around with the dish scrub brush, then drained off the water and let them dry for inspection for nasty coating. They were really clean. So next round I am throwing dirty brass in a tumbler with dawn and hot water. And no pins, then Rinse and dry. Lube then process and then into hot water and soap to remove the lube. Then tumble in the standard way. Pins, lemi, and dawn. And see if I can stay away from that messy black crap and then have nice shiny brass regularly. With no muss or fuss. Will also be checking how much lemi is needed with the litmus paper. Using litmus paper is a genius idea. Thank you.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Keep experimenting, thats what makes us smart and our hobbies interesting. I dont always use pins, if Im lazy I just use hot water, dish soap and lemishine. Still does a decent job and processing is a snap.

[@jimwilson4043]

water , dawn dish soap and lemon juice, comes out like brand new , my neighbor has a dry tumbler, he was amazed.

[@MendozaTJ]

Thanks for the Video. Quick question, have you tried IOSSO Case Cleaner or what do you think about it? Thanks

[@TreeTopFlier]

I havent tried it. Interesting that you have a time limit to leave them soaking. Kinda makes me think its a strong acid or something that would tarnish if you left it soaking.

[@MendozaTJ]

@@TreeTopFlier Yes, I have tried different containers and never left them over 5 minutes. I'm limited to the amount of cases/liquid capacity in the containers but I guess that would happen with any tumbling . Thanks

[@Nam_9456]

Have you ever had problems with the traction pads on the rollers wearing off? It seems mine are wearing very fast!

[@sneezingfrog]

Good info here. I do think a lot of issues arise from, in short, too much Lemishine and not nearly enough soap. You don't need much Lemishine at all; if you're using softened water, you might not need it at all. For certain, don't go nuts with it; a little goes a long way. On the soap front, there seems to be some sort of brain virus running around that causes people to see how little soap they can get away with. Hint # 1: We're washing things here; use soap. If at the end of the run, there aren't any suds, you used too little soap, and you're going to have a greasy film left on the cases, the pins, and the tumbler. Hint # 2: There is always more soap; the supply is practically inexhaustible. We don't need to save it, hoard it, or see how little we can get away with using. Time, on the other hand, you are allotted a finite amount of, and when it's gone, it's gone. You can't get it back, and they aren't making more of it. So use a lot of soap. I really like a Dawn and Armor All Wash and Wax combo -- the cases come out clean and shiny, and the wax keeps them that way for ages.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Good stuff thanks for sharing.

[@backnine]

I use the Frankford tumbler with the stainless pins. Dawn and small amount of lemon shine. I rinse the brass submerged in water. Then put them in my spinner to get the pins out. I then dip in a bright dip solution 1 O/Z Sulphuric acid (battery acid buy a pint at Oriellys auto parts) to 1 gal of water. Then I submerge rinse in water. Then I put it in my spinner to get the water out of the case. I dump them brass on a beach towel hand roll them around to dry them. This neutralize any alkaline or other acids. The bras will not tarnish after this process.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Interesting take with the sulfuric acid. I dont have problems with tarnishing using the method in the video but some folks say their brass gets dingy in storage if they do not get them rinsed really well. I find over time, I am less and less finicky about the look of my brass. Must be getting old LOL.

[@backnine]

@@TreeTopFlier I put a quick KZbin video out on the process. My channel name is Harold Demes if you are intrested.

[@MrSaaadpanda]

I know that if you rinse them with cold water you don't get the rose color look on the brass. If you were to use warm water they turn that rose color when you rinse them. I also wash them in cold water and they always come out bright when i use dawn and lemi shine.

[@joanbrunswick813]

Dawn dish washing liquid and a table spoon of Lemon juice. use tumbler and stainless steel pins. Bright shine and clean pockets. inside and out. No problem

[@KSFWG]

Thanks for the video, TreeTopFlier! I always enjoy your videos because they are so informative. Thanks!

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thanks buddy, really appreciate you keeping me on!

[@KSFWG]

No problem! I always get a smile when I see you've posted a video. I know I'm going to learn something. I've been wet tumbling for a couple of years now. I use the HF tumbler as you do. I'm still using HF's containers and haven't had a problem - everything comes out bright and shiny inside and out. I use probably about a third of the lemi shine that you use and a two or three drops of Dawn (blue) dish soap. I clean and reload for pistol, .45 acp brass.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thanks again for all the kind comments...You probably don't use very much case lube if any, so you're probably not seeing the build up I'm talking about in the video. That stuff is really hard to cut. I use Redding sizing wax on rifle cases and I suspect that's the primary culprit.

[@Burmakaplan]

Qwww W W

[@stephenalibozek1058]

Ty good information 👍👍

[@TreeTopFlier]

Couple things I do now to keep things running clean: 1. I limit the use of sizing wax in favor of water soluble lubes. 2. I use a lot more dish soap in each batch. 3. And since I use more dish soap I add a little more lemi shine to counter the alkaline and everything is staying much cleaner and I haven't had to hard wash the pins as often and the brass in nice and bright. Thanks for watching.

[@nickjm37fordel1]

I wet tumble ( Dawn/Lemi Shine ) Brass comes out great, but later turns gold :-((

[@TreeTopFlier]

I havent noticed that. Maybe a little more rinsing?

[@Luke-id1cp]

Should you deprime/resize before cleaning brass or after?

[@TreeTopFlier]

My opinion... always deprime first, Lee universal die is great for this. To size or not size first? This really depends on the condition of the brass. If your brass is dirty you probably will not want to run it in your sizing die, so you may want to clean it first. If you clean it first, your die will be saved but you will use sizing lube and need to clean it off afterwards. So basically it depends on what you determine is best for your situation.

[@sms9106]

Been SS wet tumbling for years, all you need is Dawn and Lemme Shine. Dry with dehydrator. No issues.

[@joseespinoza3572]

I just received my wet tumbler today and gave it a shot. I used Palmolive and Lemi Shine. I used Too much Lemi Shine, I realized that. Now, when I re-tumble the brass, do I still through in the SS media? Or just the solution? By the way, thank you for this video. Great info.

[@TreeTopFlier]

If you want to get the redish hue off you will need the pins in my opinion Or you can not worry about it if its minor and catch it on the next reload.

[@joseespinoza3572]

TreeTopFlier Awesome, Thank you.

[@barkingshark6413]

Jose Espinoza ...in with your wet media pins...only squirt 1 Tablespoon of Dawn liquid soap and 1/4 Teaspoon of LemiShine. This is for 100 cases of 308 Win. Never use more than 1/4 Teaspoon of LemiShine. It will make your brass look copper. You can clean it again, but will also take additional time.

[@TomColontonio]

HAve you tried Cream of Tartar? My brass is tarnishing so fastt.. driving me nuts! Comes out GREAt then is brown in a day. A guy at my range is recommending cream of tartar and less lemishine.

[@charleshills8540]

What do you do for the inside? Is it just as clean?

[@TreeTopFlier]

The pins will pretty much clean inside and out, usually do a pretty good job on primer pockets too.

[@charleshills8540]

Thanks for your quick response.

[@nickl1682]

I just started to clean my brass with a wet tumbler. The first batch came out with a little red tarnish . So I used dawn and a little Lemieux shine for no longer that 15 or 20 minutes. This seems to work well . I'll keep a eye on it and maybe change a little. Thanks

[@TreeTopFlier]

Hey Nick, if you're picking up a pink color you probably have too much lemi shine in the mix assuming you're not using some other cleaner that has an effect on PH...Thanks for watching!

[@matthewporter4761]

Do you run the pins alone with the zep? I’m really hesitant to run them together

[@TreeTopFlier]

Sure, and it does a great job.

[@hsharma3933]

Matthew Porter it works fine even if you run it with the zep. Just add citric acid and rinse right afterwards.

[@JA-ux7dd]

I used about two teaspoons of the ZEP Orange and about a teaspoon of Lemon Shine, with the pins. Brass comes out brand new. Water is the most filthy I have ever seen.

[@ARPatriot1776Official]

Enjoyed the video. I do this sometimes also.

[@Mascotal]

finally, some information based with science.

[@TreeTopFlier]

Thanks!

[@williebulletman5217]

Great information on the lemi shine I’ve been Known to be a little heavy handed with it thanks for the video

[@nookroot890]

Same here. Just did a load of .223 and it was shiny until it was dried. Likely that I over Lemi shined it.

[@MrVinnyboombottz]

Great video and information. What are your thoughts on Simple Green? According to the internet review it has a pH of 8.5 to 9.5. Just wondering how this might work, it is recommend for 5.7x28 mm due to the coating on these cases but I haven't seen anyone wet tumble regular brass with Simple Green just dish soap and LemiShine. If you are up to testing with it please post results.