Programmers VS Software Engineers EXPLAINED 👩‍💻

[@CodingWithLewis]

To clarify: “architect” in this scenario is used metaphorically. Not as in the position of a software architect. Software engineers understand the software as a whole rather than in one specific area. If you are hired as a software engineer, you might only work on the backend but are expected to understand how the entire stack works. Software engineer isn’t a specific role, it’s a description to describe someone who understands an umbrella of things related to programming.

[@netoutube]

¿more like a contractor?

[@homelessrobot]

@@netoutube no. a contractor is no more or less like an engineer than a technician. you can recruit a contractor to fill either an engineering or a technican role. in general this whole line of thinking is just a great waste of time, and it really isn't that important who's an engineer and whose a technician. what matters is that you are doing enough cake baking to justify all of the kitchen management you are wasting time on.

[@guyhosse3308]

As a civil engineer i was appalled you use architect instead of engineer to follow the analogy of a SOFTWARE ENGINEER.

[@Entropy67]

Software Architects, from what I've seen, are garbage. How you gonna dictate the architecture when you don't even see the implementation? They are intertwined. There are some unreal things that occur when the architecture is taken out of the hands of the people actually writing the code. Which is also why I don't like this distinction. From what you've defined in the video, the difference between programmer and software engineer is that one is professional and the other one is a hobbyist that doesn't really understand what they are doing.

[@jontnoneya3404]

Now you've done it - you've confused everyone. In trying to clarify programmers from SEs you mention architects and now no one knows what a software architect is.

[@FenixAnimation]

I went to school to be a software engineer and only job i could find in my area was fixing printers 😅

[@fordthecow9838]

He's in the panhandle of Oklahoma probably

[@FenixAnimation]

@@fordthecow9838 southwest Wyoming actually

[@getamo]

Lol same. Anykey wasn't my dream

[@LolLol007]

​@@fordthecow9838😂

[@thabotheko2598]

Me and you bro.

[@HerbertLandei]

If someone asks me, I just say "highly trained code monkey", I think that clarifies all

[@0x007A]

Code monkeys are the copy-and-paste wannabes. They are a plague upon the profession. It has gotten worse with the arrival of ChatGPT and brethren.

[@andyangel9818]

I think is for the best, anything higher that that is very stressful and I don t think is worth it dude

[@MikoYae]

@@andyangel9818i wholefully agree with this

[@brenoverissimo3846]

But of course, printer fixing is a skill that all of us learn by environment pressure

[@user2C47]

That's a big nope from me. The MFP is a big black box. If it breaks, call the mfg. We have that contract for a reason. I'll continue to use my indestructible daisywheel from the 80s.

[@___idk]

lol even as a student needs to learn how to fix basic issues of printer when having many schoolworks

[@ashtinpeaks9972]

​@@___idk 90% colleges have a lab you can print shit out lmao.

[@Tlion2102]

I am a technical engineer so that is something well I am trained to fix. I think everyone should do a year of technical support, like you just understand how to use your IT equipment then you can actually do work

[@crackedsam7303]

Ah no wonder I wasn’t landing any interviews… I kept calling myself a “Developer” 😀

[@CodingWithLewis]

If you reinstall Windows, HR thinks you’re a software engineer

[@kumarraj197]

@@earthblob2058 lol XD

[@cyberneticbutterfly8506]

​@@CodingWithLewis Seems like it's the HR positions that are in need of an overhaul. Only licensed software-HR staff with 8 years of education and a PHD in information systems are allowed to hire or fire software developers from now on. By my declaration!

[@speedyfox9080]

Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!

[@christopheroliver148]

@@speedyfox9080 Calm down, Mr. Balmer!

[@CodingWithLewis]

Reminder: lots of companies will use these interchangeably.

[@tinahalder8416]

I am System Analyst, need to everything a Software Engineer does but in lower level 🙃

[@punchkitten874]

Cause there's only so many adjectives you can put in front of "programmer" (chief, lead, assistant, etc)

[@conundrum2u]

​@@tinahalder8416SAs and BSAs do really important work, actually. Unfortunately not a lot of managers push to have people with that role on teams these days.

[@TheSdrubs]

Here in Brazil we can translate as: the first one does exactly the same as the second one, but is paid half the money.

[@davibassani16]

Então, cara... Bem assim hahahahaha

[@wolfcraft4501]

I’ve heard this exact same clarification be used with “Coder” in the place of programmer here and “Programmer” in the place of software engineer here.

[@khuongle2400]

Programmer, developer, software engineer are the same job, only seniority level that decide your responsibility. Meanwhile I had to to do all the things since fresher level

[@abykuruvilla]

I am a Software engineer. It kinda gets merky in companies nowadays. Rarely have people who just write code, if you can write code you can probably also design one to some extent. But there will be people who have more strength in coding than designing or vice versa. The lower you're in the seniority level, the less designing you usually do. Mostly when you're joining a company your title will simply be a reflection of your education, engineers,developers,programmers they'll do the same job.

[@Adomas_B]

General engineer and managing programmer of the grand committee of software developerment

[@gillsejusbates6938]

no you are a developper

[@abykuruvilla]

@@gillsejusbates6938I take care of the end to end life cycle. Also by job title I am a Software Development Engineer.

[@RealDrTaco]

I am in my 2nd year of my 1st job out of college. I am a fully fledged software engineer who has to design and develop software applications. I also do database stuff and write automation scripts for various uses.

[@abykuruvilla]

@@RealDrTaco This is a very small startup?

[@delarosae]

When I tell people I can code in x language they automatically think I’m good with computers and can fix any issues related to hardware 😭

[@plyjhny]

People always seem to confuse IT with Dev. Totally different. One is like a car mechanic, the other is like car engineer

[@twothreeoneoneseventwoonefour5]

@@plyjhny Car engineer can probably fix cars though as they know everything about them so much to create them (different, higher level of expertise). People who write code usually don't know about system administration on the high level though. But I mean, if you tell someone that you can code in C++ or Rust, you ARE probably "good with computers"(from normal people's perspective), can reinstall their Windows or fix the "why this web page doesn't open (vpn)" or "how can I open this video file".

[@plyjhny]

I dont think your average car engineer could fix most cars quick enough to make it profitiable. Example, I can create great food but I dont know the first thing about being a chef. Also, yes a dev probably could setup Windows, or a VPN. Not quickly tho. But your average Dev is not going to be able to manage system administration, technical support, network security. They might understand it, but would be very very inefficient @@twothreeoneoneseventwoonefour5

[@EJD339]

@@plyjhnyand people confuse IT with people who know how to program lol.

[@shirakuyanai4095]

Independent full-stack developers: 👁️👄👁️

[@jm.101]

Honestly feels like a contrived distinction.

[@SiimKoger]

I like to use terms: Developer - anyone who is coding as a profession. Engineer - people who work on low-level stuff and libraries (people with depth of domain knowledge) Architect - big picture. Same as in physical world you have Builders - the ones who use already accepted good standards. Engineers - who make sure that the technologies actually work. Architects - design/price/ideation

[@Cranked1]

@@SiimKoger your definitions are worse than the already bad definition in the video. that's not what these roles mean in the industry

[@ilikestuff8218]

Computer Science to other Tech Degrees is like Mechanical Engineering to other Engineering Degrees. Just like Mechanical Engineering can do Electrical, Chemical, Civil, Biomedical, Nuclear and other Engineering. Computer Science can do Information Technology, Software Engineering, Networking, Cyber Security, Data Analytics and other Tech Jobs.

[@shadowstrike3724]

Class SoftwareEngineer(Programmer): ....

[@prodbykelvin7508]

Haha 😂

[@IchBinZweiteDeutscheFlagge]

An architects dream is an engineers nightmare

[@calapout]

Where I live software engineer is a protected title that requires you to go to university and study some science classes like chemistry, math and physic. It goes on top of actual software design, maintenance and testing classes. Once you’re done you also need to register to the order pf engineers or you can’t legally wear the title. Without it you can only call yourself a programmer or developper.

[@tanjeeschuan4999]

Germany?

[@calapout]

@@tanjeeschuan4999 No, canada. I'm not sure it applies for the whole country, but it does in the province of quebec at least. every province has it's own order of engineers that decide the required criteria to be admissible. Calling yourself an engineer here without being member of an order could result in a fine.

[@StarryNightSky587]

@@tanjeeschuan4999 germany does not give a single sh*t, as long as you have 2 hands and ever saw a computer before, they will hire you

[@ernststravoblofeld]

I have called myself both. They are the same. No difference. Software engineer is what you tell your parents because it sounds better.

[@msc8382]

Unless you apply engineering principles, you're not an engineer. Programmers perform programming, and are not by definition required to follow engineering principles. In my country, calling yourself engineer is only justified by having a formal title from graduating from an engineering course of at least 4 years from a government acknowledged university. Technically speaking, you'd be committing fraud if you do not apply engineering principles but call yourself an engineer. Practically speaking I don't care. I've met people who call themselves engineer and can't even do engineering basics. Its very hard to take someone like that serious. It always feels like you have to spell out the consequences that are obvious. On the other hard, I've met programmer's who are better than seasoned engineers because they can ask the right questions so its almost like you can just follow along neatly. That's exciting.

[@sorvex9]

@@msc8382Nobody cares about your opinion

[@systemhalifax1241]

@@msc8382nah, they’re still software engineers because they deal with software. No need to think hard for it.

[@richardtiong]

Not all software engineers do software architecture.

[@isvogor]

You just explained the difference between a software engineer and a software architect

[@CodingWithLewis]

Not true. A software engineer is a general area where you work on the entire stack of software in one way or another. This could be through software architecture (which is a more specialized role). A programmer, is more specifically working on a piece of the software rather than the higher picture.

[@brinckau]

I am a programmer who can do lots of things, but I would not call myself a software engineer, because I don't have the theoretical knowledge to be one.

[@isvogor]

@@CodingWithLewis Yep, true. In fact programmer is just a colloquial term. In my career so far I have never had a collegue that finished a "programming" school or had a title "programmer". The point you are trying to make is non-existing, and you are just referring to junior positions or internships. Software engineers by training get the knowledge you address, but to do architecture, by your own words, you are an architect. EOD

[@leroypowell-louis499]

Again. Reminder. They are both Software Engineers because they both fucking deal with Software. It just like surgeons, opticians, gynecologist are all Doctors 🥼.

[@brinckau]

@@leroypowell-louis499 They are all doctors, but not interchangeable. You don't want to see a gynecologist if you have an eye problem. If I wrote a "Hello, World" program, then I indeed programmed a computer, which makes me a programmer. Not the best programmer, but a programmer. But does it make me an engineer? I don't think so.

[@s1l3nttt]

Okay, so it's basically just a different name, because if you build something, you have to do plan it regardless, at some level.

[@NoFailer]

I always thought of it as: A developer uses a language/framework/library and a software engineer made those languages/frameworks/libraries.

[@arjix8738]

nah, making a framework/library ain't that hard to be honest you just need a few years of experience

[@Ecrios]

Thx for this vague explanation. Based on it, there's nearly no difference :3

[@KamiKomplex504]

That's like saying there is a difference between a writer and an author, that one just writes words and the other develops a plot. There is no such thing as someone that "just writes code" but doesn't have an understanding of what they write as a whole.

[@godbleak]

FF: In Canada, there's a pretty big difference. The title "Engineer" is strictly regulated. If you're a Software Engineer in Canada, you're an _actual_ Professional Engineer, meaning you obtained an Engineering degree, Completed the necessary work experience, and passed the Professional Practice Exam. A programmer in Canada, is someone who programs.

[@HasenGamer2022]

But here it comes the AI that can do every Job at the same time without needing the help of any person

[@karma1507]

I like the analogy comparing them to builders and architects.

[@michaellittle5792]

Bro I had a help desk job in the military for a few years and I STILL wasn't qualified to fix a printer. Repairs and maintenance were contracted out so we couldn't touch anything.

[@EricRohlfs]

It used to be about discipline. Engineers have standards, write unit tests, document, strive for the software to have a life beyond them. Programmers used to be specialized typists. Today technically very little difference between the two, unless you are and IEEE guy.

[@wtl912]

Can you make a video about IT Engineer vs. Printer Engineer ?

[@jingcyril3281]

"None of these jobs r qualified to fix your printer." got me. lol

[@Darkerfoxtech]

Nobody can fix printers. Back in the day those things became sentient and hate every one of us.

[@TrieuNguyen-hx3rl]

Fact: in some companies, they really create a level ladder based on these terms. Developer is for inter, fresher, and junior, while Engineer will be for middle and senior. For engineer, they will require more than coding skills, you will need things like clean code, optimizing systems, and giving out software solutions for the task, in some cases, knowledge in networking, server and computer hardware, or even low-level coding or no code are also needed.

[@GirishGaidhane]

The End was personal 😂

[@Nakhaan]

In France, being an 'Engineer' is a title like Professor or Doctor. You earned it after graduating from an engineering school. Computer science is the only area where the 'Engineer' title is used interchangeably because companies do so. Therefore, people with no engineering xp call themselves software Engineer. It's like the word has lost its prestige since it's usually harder to complete an engineering school, so people putting in the effort to complete those might not even be recognized to their true value. People shouldn't not call themselves Engineer if they are not. But then again, it's just a title, you can find more competent people that haven't done engineering school

[@ridabrahim7604]

in France people are more about titles than actual skills, it's the bragging culture over there, this comes from early ages since french people wore wigs and did makeup 😂, there is no prestige in 2024 only who can get shit done, life rewards the hard workers

[@ilikestuff8218]

Computer Science to other Tech Degrees is like Mechanical Engineering to other Engineering Degrees. Just like Mechanical Engineering can do Electrical, Chemical, Civil, Biomedical, Nuclear and other Engineering. Computer Science can do Information Technology, Software Engineering, Networking, Cyber Security, Data Analytics and other Tech Jobs.

[@puzzlick7088]

So software engineers are just a fancy title for people who program a little bit more than programmers

[@blkgames1447]

please add subtitles if possible because sometimes people are watching this videos at outdoor or their headphone's battery went negative like me :D

[@0x007A]

I posit 90% of software engineers are strictly programmers with a "more impressive" job title. A systems analyst used to perform the roles now labeled programmer and software engineer, plus they had the additional responsibility of the modern-day business systems analyst bridging the business and technology concerns within an organization.

[@dragoneer121]

Here in Australia they are both the same, we call it software developer too

[@ElementRunRL]

1:39:00 a better way of doing that is “if touched wall” “multiply x by -1” js

[@malikau917]

First time I disagree. For hyped word “architecture” we have Cloud Crew. They are amazing guys for sure, they do “highly loaded systems” - clusterization, load balancing and so on but they don’t know what’s going on with micro services, databases and Elastic configurations which I’m in charge of, not as proficient in Java and overall it’s just a different specific role in the IT sphere. With that being said theirs tasks doesn’t make them “software engineers” and me just a “programmer”

[@davibassani16]

The final hahahaha! Really good explanation!

[@TGameDev]

As someone whos been doing tech support for over 10 years it is going to feel SOO good just throwing things over the way and feigning ignorance. "Printer? Oh you must need the help desk. Theyre 6 cubes over, thanks."

[@shankhathefirst]

I simply have an interest in coding for doing competitive programming but I still get called to fix printers, fridges and even water filters 💀💀 (I'm a high school student who recently passed out)

[@CodingWithLewis]

Water filters 😂😂

[@remot1]

"Sorry, I can't help you fix the water filter" "But- But- You code-"

[@shankhathefirst]

@@remot1 It goes more like; "Sorry, I won't be able to fix your water filter" "Wdym you won't be able to? You do stuff with computers all the time right. What use is your internet connection?" *tinkers around with the filter and either it gets fixed by itself OR just say a random issue and tell them to get a specialist to replace the filtering unit because I'm famously bad with handling stuff 😎*

[@getamo]

Damn passed out sounds scary. Are u ok? 😂

[@shankhathefirst]

@@getamo passed out as in high school pass out 😅

[@Turnthepage1986]

Software engineer and programmers are interchangeable at lower level tasks like building simple consumer or buisness application. they split apart, if the problem solves by the software gets more complex.

[@Tech050-jb5zu]

Thanks for perfect & simple explanation

[@brensenvillegas7177]

Underrated channel

[@JoachimFosse]

I'm pretty sure this is how you end up with teams making choices like: Let's make the fresh out-of-school junior engineer rewrite the entire legacy tech monolith from scratch with all of the state-of-the-art methods & best practices he learned in school. He's probably much more qualified than the senior programmers we have with years of experience with our legacy stack

[@franghisoni4237]

This makes me think that I am studying a software engineering degree for nothing, everyone calls themselves software engineers without having those studies.

[@hughmungus7933]

We've heard about programmers and architects but have you heard about software demolishers, that's right our job is to bring down the entire structure with one code commitment

[@notme8652]

"Im a pro gamer"

[@danielwilkowski5899]

yes, these distinctions are kinda mixed up. Kinda like driver chauffeur.

[@norielgames4765]

I know no one whose job is only to program. Not even the interns or the trainees who just came today. We all need a varied set of skills, not only programming.

[@bhupathinannu7098]

My only flex is that I understood the architecture in reel

[@gro967]

That is called a software architect 😂

[@punchkitten874]

In the late '80's, my relative was in charge of an international project to take an existing American industrial inventory program and bring to European markets. This is pre-EU, so the program had to be rewritten for each individual country according to their existing systems and laws. His title? Chief Programmer. I think he would consider "software engineer" to be much the same as "sanitation engineer" - y'know, if it makes you feel better... 🤷

[@jimbojimbo6873]

A solution Architect and a Software Engineer are not overlapping

[@codemonkey2311]

Pls make computer science vs information technology vs computer engineer

[@Derek-np7ke]

This is basically the difference between a senior level engineer vs a junior level. There is a reason why senior level focuses more on system design as opposed to leetcode. Also, on a daily level, software engineers tend to focus on feature or story level problems. Architecture is more on the planning level, higher scope problems

[@yunsha9986]

There's no difference in a company if you are a software developer or engineer, you will be expected to work the same way because your product owner doesn't even know wtf the difference is anyways. So just call yourself a software engineer. Heck I work as a DevOps engineer, and I do only 20% things on pipelines and servers, most other stuff are toolings and likely could be done by a software engineer/dev.

[@scythe2591]

I think its more "developers" than programmers where programmers and SE are basically the same

[@timothy6227]

If they write good code they are a programmer, bad code is a software engineer or a manager

[@spellman3809]

System engineer: are i joke for you?

[@leonardoraele]

Each company uses different titles for these attributions. What you described as "software engineer" are "software architects" in some companies, and what you describe as "programmer" is simply a low seniority software engineer in most compabies.

[@dragon28022000]

Smaky roast at the end))

[@KenW418]

The titles are arbitrary and depend on the company. Where I've worked, software engineers represent a depth of knowledge of a particular system or tech stack and architects represent a breadth of knowledge across various systems or tech stacks. An architect may work with many different teams on implementing a new system within a company expected to work across different divisions. An engineer from each of those teams is expected to be a knowledge expert on their system and determine how their system will integrate with the newly developed system. Programmers/developers just code what these people have designed for them.

[@antoniorondon1892]

The end 😂😂😂😂

[@carlosgomes1998]

What is the software he uses in those diagrams? Pretty cool !

[@yungjoshx]

i think a better analogy would be programmers are construction, software engineers are engineers, and ui/ux designers are the architect

[@markgaje3589]

Most Job hirings in my country, refer programmers and software engineers as Developers. Funny how they even specified Laravel Backend Developer and yet the job requirements still states about more of a frontend such as JQuery, React, Angular, WordPress lol

[@tee-hee9553]

software engineer need to do the hard work and understand all about the app like they even build the whole framework if they need that is why it's so hard to be a software engineer

[@MrNiceGuy442]

A Software engineer is a programmer and a programmer will eventually one day become a software engineer.

[@jotherman8113]

A software engineer is a programmer that works for a company, a programmer is someone that loves using software engineering to solve problems, that's my realistic opinion from what i do and what i know.

[@petermtika8237]

😂🤣🤣. Parents will make you fix the charging base on their phones because you are a programmer or software engineer

[@universebot2363]

Im not sure if making this distinction does make sense. If you mean people just plain on writing code within or using a specified/agreed upon framework/style then Software Developer vs Software Engineer/Architect would be a better pair of names. IMO both are Programmers and to some extend the developer has to be a little architect to be able to fit his solution within the architected/designed context.

[@mac.ignacio]

There are Software Architects hahahaha

[@himanshurai2325]

Some people ask me to fix their home appliances too

[@Cutsii]

Yes! I could relate! My friends want me to fix their AC or Washing Machine.

[@tresaidh3y90]

Every man in IT fears printer issues.

[@ninjasiren]

Im an IT and CS graduate with a focus on CISCO networking, databases, and programming. But I also have a printing and design shop business, and yes the printer joke hits hard 😅

[@greatminikwu9089]

Pls do for computer engineers???!!!

[@EEDevotee]

Beatmaker and a producer.

[@Invalid571]

Professional Google searcher is a good summary for both.

[@mrq2125]

I have my final exam in two weeks. The English translation of my qualification according to DeepL is "IT specialist for application development" - so I'm not a programmer nor a software engineer lol 😂

[@sanjeevkumargupta5171]

I was confused btw what I should become a programmer or a software engineer. Well thanks for telling the difference. I will become a printer ;)

[@aghilannathan8169]

Software Engineer and Developer are the same. Being a Computer Programmer just means you can write Hello World in Python lol.

[@amriteshkr8]

well that means i am a software engineer

[@StarryNightSky587]

For me it mostly manifested in terms of uncertainty. Easiest sh*t was FE Dev, where you get 100% predesigned stuff and the project/framework are decided for you, all the way to Full-Stack Multiwizard where you will do everything and anything from ETL python to "why is the button 10px to the right", also why are the 300 other endpoints not ready for a project where we only even know half of what is to be.

[@thebeesnuts777]

I get the same confusion of terms by people I'm a chippy ( carpenter ) people then ask which chip shop do I work at😅

[@ryuudirection.3214]

Then your neighbor ask you to fix their broken Refrigerator. hahahaha

[@imaazk]

nice video editing

[@srinivasvarudu7479]

A tech support engineer and a mechanical engineer can fix the printer 😅

[@-scrmbled]

Programmer it is

[@tulikkovulpus]

Theres also the feild of systems engineer who only does the highlevel

[@NapiRockAndRoll]

I'm a SE and I don't do any code. Instead I'm: -Doing performance analysis in customer systems -Analyzing error logs in customer systems -Checking configurations on business process related parameters in customer system -Do sizing review for customers -Analyzing their business processes and compare them to the best practices and capabilities of the system -Run volume test in test systems of the customer -Supporting Go-Live activities -Discussing issues with the development ...and so on.

[@bob-xm7ny]

wrong. An architect is an architect. A developer and a software engineer are synonyms.

[@vanfrancisco4573]

And then, there's Quality Assurance who make the software engineers and programmers lives a living hell.

[@jwbonnett]

A developer is someone who uses a framework. A engineer is someone that implements software from scratch that is designed by an achitect. A architect designs and implements software. So you are describing a architect not a engineer.

[@crankyunicorn4423]

humm is exactly the same thing what you want to call someone that design a flow is a project designer or project architect. software engineer is a more academic naming a programmer was someone that setup the first programable machines and then someone that write codes on punch cards

[@SASA_maxillo]

So software engineers don't write code????

[@theultimateevil3430]

Ah yes, the code monkeys came up with a new label for themselves. Finished learning SOLID?