PROOF DEFENSE Is NOT As Good As You Think | THE FIRST DESCENDANT

[@blackkat101]

I agree for the most part however DEF is still important. 20-30k DEF can easily be reached without much investment at all. 27.5k is the sweet spot before DEF starts to really get diminishing returns, so aiming for 25-30k is a good standard. A BIG reason for this is that DEF affects not only HP, but also Shields (unlike in Warframe). To add, I love Shields, however there are some caveats: - If you are not Enzo, you have no easy way to generate Shields in Combat. Even with the modifiers on components, if you are being focused on by the boss (especially so in Solo), you generally won't be generating your shields back much at all. ANY tick of damage will halt the generation and it takes a bit before the Regen starts again. - Shields do not have convenient items that can be picked up to Regen them. - There are currently no support descendants (other than Enzo) that help others generate shield and not everyone has or always wants an Enzo in their party (people do like playing all sorts of characters and as more are added, the less you'll see of some). HP on the other hand: - While it doesn't generate on its own, can be built to over x3 times the amount shields can in exchange. - The HP heal drops from adds/mobs heals a based off a % off your max HP, making these even nicer to have all over the field to heal yourself. - There are MULTIPLE descendants that have team healing abilities, with the main ones being Yujin and Jayber, along with many descendants that have ways to heal themselves too. - On HP Collector vs Shield Collector, not only is Shield Collector hard to get as there is much more RNG involved, but the amount of shields it recovers is less than what HP Collector offers at the same 2s ICD. Meaning if you had the option of one or the other (which you can only equip one), the HP Collector will be generating more for you. Even if they offered the same % heal to HP and Shield, because you have x3 the amount of HP as Shields, you still would get vast amounts more HP. Again, both are good. I do love Shields. I still think HP is the best investment for every character when it comes to defense. I do also think that Shields are great, but not as great in Solo if not Enzo, since you will always be targeted, thus interrupting the shield generation often and no other way to generate it other than not being hit. In a party though, it is amazing because the aggro of the enemies changes so often, giving you time to easily generate it back. DEF is still good to have. 20k should be a good amount, though again 25-30k is the sweet spot before it is felt that it isn't helping as much. DEF will be helping mitigate damage on BOTH your HP and Shields, meaning those will last longer.

[@Kizzster]

The sweet spot is 15K-20K DEF. 40K+ DEF only gives you diminishing returns. Health is better.

[@blackkat101]

@@Kizzster Damage reduction: 1k - 13% 5k - 29% 10k - 30% 15k - 42% 20k - 46% 27.5k - 50% 50k - 58% 72k - 62% 100k - 67% 125k - 69% Thing is, you can reasonably hit 25-30k with a single DEF mod and a bit of DEF on your components. Allowing you to reduce all damage by 50%, which is nice. I have noticed a difference by quite a bit on how long my HP/Shields last when having 15k and 28k. It is noticeable. But yes, you can stop at 15k if you'd like.

[@travariusphearse3973]

You know there's a weapon for shields it's kinda weird it ig there encouraging team play like that for the shield effect

[@z00ko]

@@blackkat101 I have to disagree completely. I play bunny with 4k shields and 11k hp and can’t die. I run no defense at all. Shields is the better stat because it can regen fast. HP just has the bigger value and it’s easier to boost your hp by a large margin with investment. And like I said in my first video HP is the most important one to go for because it has the bigger percentages. But for higher skill players. Shields is the better option. And for how much modules people slot for defense already you can easily afford both shields and hp. So you don’t have to choose. Do both. Unless you’re gley

[@blackkat101]

@@travariusphearse3973 If you are talking about Nazeistra's Devotion, the Ultimate Handcannon, then yes, I know about it. The problem with that gun is that it costs 85 MP to restore 12% shields (at base level, have not had time to upgrade it). Given that, most people find that part of the skill to be a detriment. Since may players only have 150-250 max Mana, meaning they'll drain all their MP on 2-3 shots accidentally hitting a teammate that ran in front of them while leaving themselves with no MP to cast their skills.... Making the gun better on Gley's that need to use crits if using Blood and Iron, as they can, while taking advantage of the high crit rate of the weapon as well as the -30% DEF shred it offers on weakpoint hits, do not have to worry about the shield restoring part of the gun, since they have no MP for it to drain (the shield restore will not trigger if the correct amount of MP isn't there to drain). Given that even if you build heavily into shields, you will at most have around 6k on a character (since it scales less than HP). If you had 6k shields, a shot from this to an ally would restore only 720 for that crazy amount of 85 and that is of course only if they're friends that you know built shields instead of ignoring it as the community has since launch (other than Enzo and Kyle users they tend to always build shields at least because of their kits...). So even if it did become more mainstay, people would first have to get it out of their heads that shields are useless and start building them first. Then maybe this part of the gun will be more useful. Again though, it might be better when fully upgraded, though I feel like it will not raise the shields restored and just lower the MP cost (which would still help a bit).

[@ZFshmN]

After watching these vids, there is no denying that investing heavily into defense is useless. I would say that investing into shields isn't always necessarily better. For bossing, I could see shields being better because you get to regen when the targeting swaps to a teammate. While mobbing on the other hand, I would argue that hp is better because there are tons more attacks coming in at all times, and because they will be dropping hp, you can sustain off of that. This is probably just down to preference and playstyle, but I would be hesitant to say that shields are just always better (even aside from Gley who is just an outlier and obviously you will not build shields on her. Using her as an argument against shields is a bad argument)

[@bearable55]

Ok, I am a believer now. Thanks for the in-game comparison.

[@SuperFacecloth]

The balance depends on the character and the play style. Gley doesn't even have shields. Shields naturally regenerate but the more you have the longer it will take and health can also regenerate if you have the right module.

[@michelledombrowski1120]

Holy shit this is actually super interesting I always thought I needed so much def

[@flamespitta9261]

Thank u for giving me knowledge I was always wondering why I upgraded my defense and still be getting shitted on

[@Gr_ywind]

This is my experience at the moment, I can't even survive normal shite mobs any longer. Went and googled for solutions and this popped up. I have no idea whether it would work for me though. 😠

[@owenhunter9916]

For those who don’t want to watch or read, HP IS THE WAY TO GO

[@Skewguard]

Could you make a 2.0 video on enzo after all of your testing, without def in your build.

[@nelsonjackson5718]

Well you're also using Enzo who thrives with shields soo that helps some.

[@Skewguard]

Stop finding reasons to not believe

[@gamermike24]

​@@Skewguard it's true though, shields don't work on descendants unless they're Enzo or Ajax

[@dariusjones8080]

I gained an understanding of survivability when I started maining gley. My uncle said the same thing he has 44k defense and was getting destroyed. I told him cut back on defense 15-20k feels comfortable and get more hp or shield.... Idk if it's just me but devour don't hit hard you need to test on a boss that wipes squads constantly like pyro then you can push your survivability to the limit. Defence matters when you get hit by big numbers.

[@jackplisken4738]

exactly ... testing on weak numbers mean nothing . try on executioner big sword slash for example , bet you go back to defense again XD

[@goldengrain9851]

Question, are you saying invest in shields and health because they regenerate with drops, defense does not?

[@brandonshelley6614]

This is a compliment. Thanks for reminding me why I don’t trust you tubers. I dropped all shields from Viessa and kept struggling.

[@Ijustpullingeneral]

So if the defense is whack for Ajax, do you still build up on it

[@Ijustpullingeneral]

I see no builds with him

[@mkamiddleeast6883]

can u make a comparison shields and hp vs def and hp on bunny? or this comparison is mainly for enzo as he have the skill to get shield back?

[@marlonvidal3769]

The problem that I find with this, is that this won't help gley, you are running almost 200% max shield. What I usually do is yes I stack HP but also use defense, if you see your video you went from 9k HP taking 40 to 110-120 damage per hit, to 16k HP taking 75 to 190 damage per hit so you are just lasting longer in there due to the amount of HP. The defense stat does help, but not all characters are build the same you have to use what's best for them, and you have to also take note that using all those health mods would not work for every character as some need a lot of skill related mods and wont have space for all of that, it will make them useless for their element and will only be tanky with a gun. This works for enzo as he is a support character that gives himself 100% crit rate and infinity amount of bullets so you don't have to invest in skill expansion or skill critical, etc etc.

[@AaronHernandez-yh4zd]

So what would you recommend for ultimate bunny? Increased shield because of the supernova set?

[@dutch6947]

HP bro

[@jackplisken4738]

dont aim for sets , aim for hp +def stats

[@Go2stateHeavywieght]

Only time you want shield on bunny is if your building for bionic fuel which I don’t recommend it’s garbage 😂

[@Blooddiamonds188]

10 to 13k def and 12 to 15k hp. do not over stack defense like some of these other players building 20k plus.

[@z00ko]

@@AaronHernandez-yh4zd shields and hp for bunny

[@Snowgenesis]

hey man, you have any update with your gley build with this setting?

[@Chris-wu2hc]

No shields on Gley, all you get is HP and DEF. Gley mains being ignored. I don’t over invest in DEF though, one mod and a decent spread on components

[@bigwonga82]

One thing to note is that health pickups are % based, so the more Hp you have the more health you will receive on pickups

[@z00ko]

@@bigwonga82 exactly! I mentioned this in my first video. It’s the best stat to go for

[@bigwonga82]

@@z00ko I must have missed that part

[@CrimsonRanger]

okay so if I focus on a tanky build then I can just focus on shields and max hp in instead of defence and max hp

[@0mniknightz]

hmm, try that on gley and see.

[@feardieshogun8153]

@@0mniknightz gley no shield

[@0mniknightz]

@@feardieshogun8153 exactly

[@gameconfessioncorner8721]

I think what most of the skeptics are asking for us visual proof of the other nuker bosses like molten fortress Pyromaniac etc rather than just trust me bro I tested it failing that they're just hating after that

[@qazz6209]

Depends on descendant i ult viessa i can see aasaive difference if i dont have defence same for ajax

[@toxic_razz6423]

Similar to warframe. Only build armor on frames that have abilities that scale off armor. Don’t build DEF unless the character has abilities that scale off DEF otherwise that mod slot is more impactful as a max HP because it’s scales higher. If DEF had a linear scaling it be worth it to get 90% reduction like warframe. But in TFD it had aggressive diminishing returns around 60% damage reduction wich just isn’t good enough when mod slots are so limited.

[@DJSoulbrother]

The difference is with the bosses later on that are in a group setting, these bosses are toys in solo

[@z00ko]

@@DJSoulbrother made a video for that one as well. And it was no difference. Trust me I test everything before I bring a video so game changing out to make sure I gather as much before I bring it to public. Especially when people expect you to know everything and be the infallible truth

[@vaypuh]

Makes sense , My question about shields is certain elements just bypass shields? I main Gley so I've invested into defense but I'm gonna start farming for HP stuff now. Thanks dawg

[@MrWiggz69]

I wouldn't form an opinion based off this video. There is another content creator called 'Ryechews Games'. He has a full break down of the numbers and the %. He has hard evidence and testing to back up his numbers too.

[@gamermike24]

​@@MrWiggz69 the math teacher 🤣 He's great though

[@z00ko]

@@MrWiggz69 that video was specifically targeting how much is too much def. He did not do the same test as I did. So while his video did show the sweet spot for defense. It didn’t show the best form of defense. So sorry but you’re wrong. You completely missed the point of his video and now mine too

[@MrWiggz69]

@@z00konot sure what that has to do with what I said lol. Rychews video is basically the same as your but you are telling people not to stack defence and he is telling people when they should probably stop stacking it. You're both arguing the same point, Rychews just backs it up with numbers and explanations. No need to get mad man, I'm just helping a fellow player out.

[@Mkgaming252]

Each character have they own stats and abilities so I build my character based on the stats he has some of them are squishier the other ones some of them tank

[@robmurray5453]

The first test is perfect. Just cast your shield drone. You don’t need 8k shield. Defense literally reduces damage your shield takes. I’m not saying stack defense. It’s not even worth running more than 25k defense ever. Running shield on Enzo is great, even running 3-4k shield is great max, just keep your drone up like you should anyways if you’re counting. Completely neglecting defense is a bad idea. It’s easily 30-50% damage reduction with very little investment. So a 4k shield is basically an 8k shield, because you’re taking half the damage. I run ~4k shield on my Enzo with 11k health and about 30k defense. My shield hardly ever breaks in 4 mans farming ALL of the bosses. I get what you’re trying to say, as mass stacking shield can work since Enzo can % regen his shield so the higher total shield seems cool. Other characters cannot

[@Skewguard]

People suggesting you to try go against bosses that can swipe teams like pyro or executionner and take a sword slash to see not devo

[@yowza2404]

Since your last vid i removed defence on enzo stacked shield and hp i never died

[@novusparadium9430]

My Viessa has 40k health and 6000 on shield im fine.

[@SqwashYT]

Ok you won me over I was wrong mb good vid

[@gamermike24]

Still bro, shields aren't that great on the other descendants. You're using one whose abilities actually make shields work. I feel like AngryHatt does a better demonstration, he uses Freyna in his latest video about hp vs def. Nothing in shields, 24k def and almost 19k hp (halfway through the video). He turned her into a tank

[@Danjo0588]

No, this is proof that you haven't grasped how defense works

[@DrakeEos]

What about resistances?

[@z00ko]

@@DrakeEos they’re trash like defense

[@mulchman1969]

@@z00ko Agree with this take completely.... the resistances don't feel very resistant at all.

[@levenskiberry3622]

So at the end of the day do you max out HP or SHIELDS for ANY!! descendant???

[@MrWiggz69]

I mean you're playing a character that has a low life build where he is essentially unkillable with basically no hp pool to speak of lol. You have a way to generate shields where no other class with without shield collector. If you don't play enzo then this is totally pointless. Def first to abou 25-27k then HP is the go to for basically every other character that isn't Enzo or Kyle.

[@z00ko]

In this video it is CLEAR that with less investment, meaning more modules for dmg or Quality of Life, you get BETTER results without running defense, and if any more proof is needed, I got 2 other videos in the clip.

[@Jawkoe]

No bro you don't seem to get it ... your only basing this video off just Enzo and not furthering your research with other descendants, either change your title to Enzo build guide or come back to us with a legitimate video deserving of this title

[@z00ko]

I have every character in the game lvl 40 and did my testing on all of them. So you’re just simply wrong and don’t want to believe. That’s fine run whatever you like. Hopefully the next bosses nuke tf outta us so I can watch everyone lose while I win easily. At the end of the day, you aren’t arguing with me. You’re arguing with the facts of math

[@timnguyen4418]

@@z00kohe ain’t worth the breath bro, if he wants to continue being stubborn and wondering why he gets downed constantly then by all means let him. You’re doing good with your videos and bringing this to the public I tested it myself and it’s like night and day how much better my survivability is, also opens up more mod substitutions now for me too without the defense mods I had prior

[@xeno9999]

22k HP, 8k def, i basically never die, throw on HP collector it’s def a game changer

[@riothegod5750]

Is regening shield like that only enzo?

[@z00ko]

no its universal, your shield recovery modifier, shield recovery in combat, shield recovery in combat all change how fast you regen shields naturally