Prop Drive V2 2836 3000kv Thrust Test Motor test of the Week

[@1960Ewald]

Hi there,i am a rc pilot from the netherlands.I recently bought a propdrive 28-36 3000 kv.I have bean watching your test off this motor. You tested a tgs 6x5 prop.But i would like to know what a 6x4 prop does,what kind of thrust and amp a will draw,on 3 and 4 s. Ill be waiting for your comment.

[@DjArity]

Thank you for posting this video. Great results that we.can all use !!!

[@rcplanepirate]

Thanks.

[@SomeGuyInSandy]

My next AXN build is going to be amazing with one of these!

[@noahzeldafan]

I have a rather large Foam SR-71 50” wingspan that will weigh in at round 4 lbs. I want to do 2 pusher props 3-blade 4”-5” and want to make it go slow, it doesn’t have to scream. I would like to run a 4s 3000mah battery. Is this a good motor for my attempt? What size ESC would I require?

[@chriscrawford6245]

I’m wanting to use this motor for an EDF. Do you know how to figure out what size fan it could handle using a 4s set up?

[@rcplanepirate]

Max edf size is 64mm. Don't use a 12 blade fan. 10 blades max. I do want to one day start making stand off mounts that allow you to fit a normal brushless motor like this to a edf. As the mounting hole is normally to small to fit these motors to a 64mm edf or smaller.

[@Pardalgb]

I'm going to buy a 60 amp plush turnigy, but his timing configuration is only low and high. Have you set up your esc in which option to work? thank you

[@rcplanepirate]

Just try it on the default settings first. Then try it on high timing. See what works best.

[@Pardalgb]

friend has come a new hobbyking engine ntm propdrive 3000kv, but continues the problem, the engine chokes when the 4s battery is fully charged, when it is under a lower load does not choke the engine. I set the pwm on the red brick to 16 kHz, but it did not work. the only option now is to use an equal esc of your tests. Do you have any idea what I can do? thank you

[@rcplanepirate]

Hi like I said before you need a better esc. The one I used in my test is out of stock but if you get the Turnigy plush 60 amp it should work ok. Don't use cheep esc's with high kv outrunner motors. They don't work!

[@tomcutler5147]

Many thanks for this! Just installed onto a s800 skyshadow using 3s and the 6x5 TGS you recommend. Superb.

[@rcplanepirate]

Glad to hear that Tom. No problem.

[@marckart66]

I have just purchased one of these for my F3 Shadow from flyingwings uk. They recommend the NTM version but they are no longer for sale. They also recommend using a 6x4 prop but I am a bit sceptical. I think by the looks of it, I should of went with lower KV model and maybe used a 7" prop instead. I see your other tests and I think the 2200kv version might of been the best bet. Gladly, the motors aren't that expensive so I could just buy a 2200kv version and swap it on the field after a few flights.

[@rcplanepirate]

Hi Marc I just had a look at the F3 Shadow and you're wright they say for a hot setup use a 6x4 prop on the 3000kv motor on 4s. "WHAT THE HELL"! Even using a 4.75x4.75 prop on my Delta Wasp with the 3000kv motor for just a 4 minute flight on 4s the motor gets very hot. Using full throttle a lot though. After doing this test and seeing that the 4.5x4.5 actually puts out more thrust I have changed to 4.5x4.5 prop on my Delta Wasp and it is now a bit faster. So I suggest you use the same setup with the 3000kv motor. I you want a bit more controllable thrust at lower throttle then yes the 2200kv is a better bet. If using a 7" prop then that should only be on 3s and using a 7x4 gas prop gets the best results. If you're running it on 4s use a 6x5 TGS Sport prop. Hope this helps and it all goes well. Thanks for watching.

[@marckart66]

Thank you! i will try the wing with the 3000kv motor with various props to begin with I will buy the 2200kv once I have the wing setup properly so I can experiment with motor/prop combos. I would like to use all my 4s batteries I have for my miniquads. This might sound stupid but, would the thickness of the prop make any difference? You say you make more thrust with the 4.5x4.5 compared to the 4.75x4.75. I actually have 2 4.5x4.5 props and one is significantly thicker than the other. While flying, the thicker one is a lot quieter and has deeper tone. At high rpms, wouldn't the thinner one be more prone to flexing and deforming, thus reducing the thrust?

[@rcplanepirate]

The prop thickness can make a difference. I would not use any drone/quad props on this motor. The thin ones will warp and possibly snap. Where as the thicker ones draw a lot more current then a proper plane propeller and it's all to do with current draw. If you over strain the motor you get a higher current draw. ie amps. then your voltage drop will be lower causing less volts going to the motor resulting in less rpm's. That's why although the 4.5 inch prop is smaller it gives more thrust because the rpm's are higher. I really like to use TGS Props because they are very efficient resulting in more thrust. Well the ones that are 6" or smaller. Not so much on the 7" and up ones. I will be doing a video at some point soon all about the differences on different style and makes of props to see whats works best.

[@aneesahmed2978]

Hey RCPP, that must be a typo error I believe they would have actually meant 6x4 on 3s. Your test results shows 1520grms of thrust on TGS 6x5 @52amps, 584watts. Looks like it is the best bet and pitch down to 6x4 will be even better proposition. Hope you agree. Thank you

[@fsxpilot8355]

I used it with a 5x5 high speed prop, 4s and 80a esc. It screamed beautifull, but broke the prop when landing. Did multiple flights before breaking the prop, no problems, no excessive heat from the motor nor the esc. Now after the prop broke i mounted a 7x5 i had with me, after 2 blistering fast passes the motor died. Emergency landing succeeded and came to find the motors wires where coocking, and the isolation had almost evaporated. Should that happen or is this a malfunction from the factory? The motor itself wasnt that hot tbh... Really strange.

[@rcplanepirate]

A 7x5 is WAY to big for this motor. It probably would of burnt the motor even running just on 3s. The bigger the prop you use the more amps the motor will draw and the more amps you draw the hotter the wires get. I hate to think how many amps your motor was drawing with the 7x5 prop. You were lucky that you didn't burn your esc too.

[@fsxpilot8355]

@@rcplanepirate thx for the knowledge, its hard to figure it out when HK doesnt provide propeller data with the motor. Is 5x5 safe for this motor?

[@rcplanepirate]

@@fsxpilot8355 It is still a bit much for this motor. I use a TGS/KMP/EMP 4.5x4.5 prop on my Delta Wasp. It goes quite well and is nice and safe for the motor. If you get a wattmeter you can check to see how many amps your motor is pulling and then you will know if you set up is safe. Hope this helps.

[@fsxpilot8355]

@@rcplanepirate tried a 4,5x4,5 and lost all speed. Tbh its faster with a 3s 2200kv and a 7x5. That prop i used before i burnt it with the 7x5 was way better (the 5x5) and it didnt burn or heat up at all...... Dillema. Il get that watt meter, and try out that 5x5 and see if it stays below 745watts..caus with the 4,5 it makes no sense using it over my old 3s setup

[@rcplanepirate]

Yes mate. Try again with the 5x5. If it checks out ok on the wattmeter and doesn't get hot in flight then you should be good. Please don't be tempted to put a bigger or even a higher pitch prop on it again. You really are maxed out on 4s with a 5x5. Have fun out there flying. ...RCPP

[@simonemagrini8520]

But in your test I have see the hk page and see 3 pole for the 3000kv....Now hk has deleted the info...

[@AGT8961111]

Thanks for the info Actually ESC timing have to set how many for this motor?

[@rcplanepirate]

Hi in this test I just used the AE-65 esc default settings which were 15 deg timing and 12khz.

[@AGT8961111]

rcplanepirate thanks for sharing I found this motor may over draw make the esc over heat My set up is hobbywing platinum 50a v3 / ntm prop drive 3000kv v2 / TGS 5x5 prop / 850mah 4S 85c battery Esc setup timing 15 and 8 kHz I just test on 30 second get 2 pass second one is full speed then landing , motor is very hot , esc is more then 100c degree Going to try other motor , this one I get bad results lucky esc din burn haha

[@rcplanepirate]

@@AGT8961111 I find the TGS 4.5x4.5 is the best compromise between speed, thrust, current and motor reliability. You can still have a lot of fast fun flying with it and the motor will last you a long time.

[@AGT8961111]

@@@rcplanepirate i have try one more time after that , i try on take out the propeller spinner to make some air cooling effect try agian with same component , i am surprise ! motor and ESC is not very warm at this time , maybe just the air cooling problem on this motor , i will make a shot viedo clip for sharing soon :)

[@Pardalgb]

Good morning, friend, we came to the conclusion that the engine is not holding the 4s battery, in the new tests with the new hobbyking engine we found that the motor is cutting with 39 amps. I wonder if you tested the engine without propeller? and if it turns perfectly without twisting? We do not know what to do anymore, we've tested several sc. what happens and when the 4s battery is fully charged the engine chokes, but when the battery decreases the voltage the motor runs perfectly.Thank you

[@rcplanepirate]

Please tell me exactly the make and type esc's you have tried with this motor and have you perfectly balanced the prop?

[@Pardalgb]

@@rcplanepirate kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXWqnaWjnMZjh6s

[@Pardalgb]

@@rcplanepirate good afternoon friend I used the red brick 70a, esc turnigy trust 55a, I wonder if your motor without a helix it runs without making a noise in the full? because several engines of this type here in Brazil do this with 4s battery. the propellers are balanced. this video that I sent the motor cuts with 39 amperes, and when the battery goes decreasing the load it works perfectly. this esc of the video works perfectly in another engine ntm propdrive 3000kv version 1 old.you could make a video of your engine running without propeller with battery 4s please to see us? thank you

[@briankoch7041]

I think your battery may be a limitation on the 4.75x4.75. I get 90a with a min voltage of 15.5v with a 3300mah 70c. Right at 1.4kw.

[@rcplanepirate]

Got any thrust comparison numbers with that setup on the 4.75 against the 4.5? Plus how many seconds does the motor last before melting?

[@briankoch7041]

@@rcplanepirate static on the plane before launch. No static thrust numbers. The prop is stalled until the craft gets moving. It wakes up around 100mph.

[@FabrícioAeromodelismo]

old genfam 5030 (drone) + NTM 3000kv, made 30% more thrust than TGS 4.5x4.5, and consumed 25% less ampere.

[@rcplanepirate]

But which setup would be faster???

[@simonemagrini8520]

I have buy the 2700kv v2...But what is the difference v1/v2? do you think of test the 2700kv?

[@rcplanepirate]

I don't think there is any difference between the v1 and v2 apart from the shaft is now 3.17mm at the end not 4mm. I did do a test of the v1 2700kv a long time ago on 5s but i do have a new v2 which i will soon do a full test on.

[@comtzu50]

great document...very useful, a must see before using the visa!

[@rcplanepirate]

Thanks Luis.

[@markahn7145]

I learned one good test jig. Thank you

[@rcplanepirate]

Thank you too.

[@Pardalgb]

Friend, what better esc? yep or turnigy plush?

[@rcplanepirate]

Definitely Turnigy plush.

[@russellsmith3855]

i love this so glad I found you. The nerd's is strong in all of us! Have you been putting or can you put all your finding in the caption? Would a 6 inch prop on 3s have worked? speed equals thrust and prop length and pitch equals Torque?

[@rcplanepirate]

Hows it going Russell. I did try a 6x5 prop. It was the 6th prop i tried on 3S. Afraid you've got it a bit wrong. Pitch equals speed and longer props with less pitch equals torque. The pitch of a prop is how far the prop will travel through the air per revolution. "AT 100% EFFICIENCY". So a 6x5 prop would pull/push a plane 5 inches through the air per revolution. I high pitch prop needs more power and torque to turn it because it will draw more current. So you could have a very small prop with a lot of pitch spinning fast but it won't give much thrust but then you could have a huge prop with a low pitch spinning slower which will give you a lot of thrust but not a very high speed. So you need something in between and it's all about matching the motor and prop combo to the type of plane you're fitting it to. If you have a very aerodynamic small plane you can use a smaller fast spinning prop set up because it takes less thrust to move it through the air but a big chunky plane will need a bigger prop with more thrust to get it up to speed but it still won't go all that fast. Trying to turn a big prop fast with a lot of pitch takes a huge amount of power. "Many thousands of watts". A way to calculate the theoretical speed of a set up is once you have checked the power with a wattmeter look at the VN which is the voltage drop. On a 4 cell lipo this would be about 14 volts. So on a 3000kv motor you would times 3000 by 14 which is 42000 then times that by the pitch of the propeller. So 42000 x 5 = 210000. There are 63360 inches in a mile so divide 210000 by 63360 = 3.314 to round off. Remember this is rpm "revolutions per minute". There are 60 minutes in an hour so times 3.314 by 60 = 198.8 mph. This is called pitch speed. Remember this is at 100% efficiency. So actual speed will be less. Even on the most aerodynamic style plane speed would be at least 15% less and a very un aerodynamic plane it could be 60% less. So every type of plane would be somewhere between these two figures. I need to come up with a formula on how the actual amount of thrust being produced affects the top speed of a plane in correlation to the pitch speed and maybe style of plane. Anyway hope this helps and wasn't to much to read ;)

[@russellsmith3855]

I LOVE YOUR EXPLANATION. I was a helicopter pilot for many years and flew Chinooks. We talk a lot about aerodynamics but I find I know very little about props. I am very grateful for the info and am coming to understand more and more about what factors and variations that go in prop performance and selection. Anyone can throw a prop on a plan and fly slow... as you stated. I enjoy your testing and trying of new idea plus thinking outside the box. I love checklists and think I will make one for selecting props based on what you stated above. I bought the same watt meter you have. Cheers

[@rcplanepirate]

Thanks Russell I appreciate your liking of my videos. Just be aware that there are a lot of clones of the GT Power Wattmeter around. They show amps and watts correct but the VN voltage drop figure is wrong. It will show a much higher voltage reading.

[@nakul3424]

Nicely explained, was always confused about what pitch speed is. See always helpful videos by mr Pirate! I was lucky to pick up the older 3000kv ntm, i think only advantage is it has 4mm shaft. Rest looks pretty much same. i run apc 6x4 on it on 3s and smaller than 5'' props on 4s. Also i can't believe how inefficient those apc 4.75 & 5" props are compared to tgs.

[@rcplanepirate]

Hi Nakul. I like to help people understand this sort of stuff. Yes it is amazing the difference between the TGS and APC props. If you think it's worth doing I could do a video comparing the different props in fine detail.

[@simonemagrini8520]

.Apc prop absorb less A of tgs because if you measure are different diameter an more stiff.But in fly I think that are more pitch and fast...

[@rcplanepirate]

I have done a video all about this subject that you can see here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6aZpqh4icuihqc I have to do a flight comparison test of these props to test if my theory is correct. The more thrust and higher rpm tgs may be faster then the extra pitch apc. Or there won't be any difference at all. Apart from tgs are a lot cheaper to buy.

[@kaveeshudaya4381]

what is best prop size on this motor ?

[@rcplanepirate]

Hi Kaveesh The best the best props for this motor is a TGS 5x5 on 3s. Or a TGS 4.5x4.5 on 4s. You can also get these props from Banggood under the name of KMP props. Here is a video of this motor with a TGS 4.5x4.5 prop on 4s in my homemade plane called the Delta Wasp. Thanks for watching. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnvGaameaM6sbsU

[@jackrabbit8878]

i,m using this motor. After maiden flight my brand new lipo swell and get very hot i can't even touch it. i,m using gen ace 3s 2600mah 60c lipo, ntm 3000kv motor, 80Amp esc and 6x4 tgs prop. I really don't understand why my lipo swell and get very hot. Based on the data from my watt meter, everything is below the maximum allowable range and it should be okay. This is the data from my watt meter 45.05Ap, 8.41Vm, 378.8Wp, 0.093Ah. Please help me

[@rcplanepirate]

Hi last strike Thanks for subscribing. Going by the 8.41vm which is the voltage drop. It looks like you have a bad cell in your 3s lipo. Under load your battery voltage should not drop lower then about 10 volts. Do you have a battery cell checker? Also you should check your battery voltage after each flight. Each cell should not be much lower then 3.7 volts after flying. 3.5 volts minimum. If it is then don't fly as long and land earlier. Your battery's won't get as hot and will last much longer over time. It looks like you have a bad lipo to me though.. Hope this helps. ...RCPP

[@jackrabbit8878]

yes i do have a lipo checker, each cell is not below 3.7. I keep the battery in the refrigerator to reduce swell. Oh and i forgot something, during maiden flight my prop nut loose and i realize that i'm running full throttle a few seconds without spinning prop ....is that could be a reason for my problem?-a rotating motor (full throttle) without spinning prop due to prop nut loose.

[@rcplanepirate]

The prop coming off would not cause a problem. I would not suggest keeping your battery's in the fridge. They don't like the cold. Gens ace are a good make of lipo and a 2600mah 60c one should be more then enough to cope with that motor. I don't get why your voltage drop is so low. That motor and prop should be giving you more like 50-55 amps and 575-585watts. If you have another 3s lipo that is fully charged and has NOT been kept in the fridge just do a quick wattmeter test with it and compare the amps and watts with before. If it's more like what I said it should be then your other battery it bad.

[@virto716]

When i start the motor the motor smelts, is it normal?

[@rcplanepirate]

No

[@virto716]

How mich Power has your esc?

[@rcplanepirate]

65A

[@Pardalgb]

Hello friend I have this motor too and I bought a 4s 2200mAh battery from 40c to 80c of discharge, when accelerator at maximum engine chokes. I have a nanotech turnigy battery from 25c to 50c 2200mah and with it it accelerates at maximum and the engine does not choke. What can it be? the soldering is perfect, or the normal 4x5 .4x5 helix esc 70a.help me

[@rcplanepirate]

Hello By chokes I guess that means it stutters. That normally means the esc can't cope with rpms that high on a motor with that many poles. Your 40-80c battery will be providing a little bit bit more power and so slightly higher rpms then with your 25-50c battery. If the esc can be programed try changing the khz and timing to a higher setting. If not you need a better quality esc. Hope this helps. ...RCPP

[@Pardalgb]

@@rcplanepirate can you help me please have a red brick 70a , already configured it in several options pwm 8 and 16k.help me please thank you

[@rcplanepirate]

Pardalgb The red brick esc's have very bad programing and will not work on that style high rpm motors. I only use them with inrunner motors as they have less poles. Like I said you need a much better quality esc. Should work fine with a Turnigy Plush esc. hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-plush-60amp-speed-controller.html

[@Pardalgb]

@@rcplanepirate what configuration do you use in your ESC for this engine? any specific modification?

[@rcplanepirate]

Pardalgb The Turnigy Plush should work fine straight out of the box, but you could switch it to high timing for that little bit better performance.

[@simonemagrini8520]

Will be interesting made a test ntm 3000kv Vs het 3w 3000kv ...

[@rcplanepirate]

Sorry I don't have a het 3w 3000kv. Think they're only rated up to 450 watts. The ntm can take 800 +.

[@simonemagrini8520]

This is 3 pole....if i substitute to 2700kv I will resolve the problem of the esc that not reach to 3000kv with a 6 pole motor...

[@rcplanepirate]

That is a miss print on the specs. The 3000kv and 2700kv are both 6 pole. Just get a new ESC! Even the cheep Hobbyking 60amp ESC with the blue heat shrink works ok if you program it running 16khz. The AE65 will work better though right out of the box.

[@tarisdb]

Good test!!

[@rcplanepirate]

Thanks taris.

[@FabrícioAeromodelismo]

thanks man !!!

[@rcplanepirate]

No problem mate! Thanks for watching.

[@msamodelismo95]

toop toop too comdte thanks for the tips, parabens for the video helped me a lot, I'm an aerosol maker and I needed this information, thanks hugs.