Properly Comparing Xenoblade 2 and 3's DLC

There's been a lot of discussion since the roadmap for Xenoblade 3's Expansion Pass was announced about whether it was better or worse than the iteration in Xenoblade 2. Now that both games have finished all their updates, I think it's time to discuss that fully in a video, taking even free updates into consideration as I evaluate the post-launch support of both games, only ignoring Torna and Future Redeemed themselves.
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[@treesnip5667]

My only complaint with the post launch content of Xenoblade 3, and my only complaint with the game in general, is that they never added a chain attack and pause music toggle.

[@theimpersonator7086]

They had a golden opportunity to add Level down to the main game and not locked to post game, as it is insanely easy to overelevel in 3 and break the diffuclty/class learning

[@user-jn7rz9ew2l]

That is more intentional because it was locked to post game unlike the music toggle which is absent from the game period ​@@theimpersonator7086

[@paulrance5445]

@@theimpersonator7086 at least it wasn’t locked to NG+

[@VGPorage]

​@@theimpersonator7086That really is my biggest complain with the game there really is no way to level up classes without also overleveling your characters aswell. One thing I thought of is if you could choose to get class points instead of experience from side quests.

[@theimpersonator7086]

@@paulrance5445 In DE, it was avaible from the start. IDK, in the future, Level down needs to be avaible from the start of the game.

[@bumblebeebee31]

I just SO wish that shulk and rex were full classes in 3

[@FireFury190]

Same. I'm also upset you didn't get any dialogue or quests with them either. Noah is the only one that acknowledges Shulk and Rex during battle dialogue but that's likely due to having Harry in the studio since he had to do N's lines for Future Redeemed. But seriously Shulk and Rex are effectively ghosts when you get them as heroes. They don't even appear alongside the party when in side quest cutscenes. Nor will they show up in the final battle against Z when all the other heroes do despite there being some voice lines in the code making it seem like they could have.

[@theimpersonator7086]

@@FireFury190 Yeah, another missed opportunity. Imagine the dialogue with Rex and Mio lmao

[@SJrad]

Especially sharing their classes to the party. i would have really liked to use rex’s class in the main game

[@leonardomartinez6887]

@@SJrad Also inherit their outfits to every party member, imagine Noah using Shulk's new outfit, or Mio or Lanz using Rex's new outfit

[@glacierfox5237]

god yes

[@Elvisbackpack]

One isn't simply done with Riku videos. Riku belongs to all.

[@ponspectorstillwedie4579]

A small point in XC2's defense, while 2 does have less unique weapon classes those weapons that can be equipped on all four drivers have different animations and arts depending on who is using them. Whereas in 3 all party members use the same animations for each weapon. So the difference is so great as you might expect there. Something I did like about XC3's challenge mode compared to 2's (outside of Archsage's Gauntlet,) is that you obtained rewards just for getting a decent rank on a challenge, whereas in 2 you had to spend the noponstone you earn. Buying rewards with noponstone isn't inherently terrible but for some reason they made the outfits in XC2 ridiculously expensive. If you want to get them all the noponstone grinding is real. I honestly love both DLC's, though all in all I'd probably give 3 the edge since Future Redeemed had more story content than Torna and didn't pad out the playtime by making it mandatory to complete about half of the sidequests. Still love Torna though.

[@bluegem8582]

Yep, if you wanted to get all the items you wanted in a reasonable time, you better hope you like fighting Chickenheart Dagmara, because its challenge was one of the better ways to grind iirc

[@thenonexistinghero]

I'd give the edge to FR because it's pretty much a full game in terms of gameplay and content. In terms of story, it was a f***ing mess (just like base XC3). Torna also wasn't all that great in terms of story and barely answered anything, but at least it was better. I can't help but wonder why the storytelling was at its best with XC1 and then just kept getting worse and worse.

[@blazeknight2629]

@@thenonexistingheroI think it just comes down to expanding the verse, I don’t think any game has a particularly amazing story and XC3 definitely had the most impactful story for me(outside of how reused the fights were with the consul’s) but it’s definitely more so how things are made to tie in together. I don’t personally find most stories confusing(I was perfectly fine with FFXV’s story without any additional things added later or prior) but things with Z just weren’t the best since he felt like he was supposed to be watching and making appearances way more than he actually did, which sucks bcs I thought he would play a little part in FR. Really tho, the funny part that I like, is that Rex/Pyra/Mythra could’ve just solo’d all of XC3 and FR’s story if(from what I’ve gathered since they don’t explain) they were holding together Origin

[@MaxAutoAttack]

Shulk and Rex's classes not being usable is the biggest missed opportunity in 3 (you know, besides chain attack and menu music toggle) Obviously Master Driver would be big DPS, but Grand Marshal would have been insane due to having Future Redeemed's version of the Awakening buff, which has identical effects to the base game but has a different base length (20s vs 30s), thus making them distinct. So imagine the whole party being able to double-stack Awakening using Resonant Flag.

[@ShadowSkyX]

I wanted their clothes. Na'el absolutely should've been playable after since she's the only hero they'd have to worry about. Especially since blades were playable in torna. Ng+ for future redeemed could've added linka and panacea and could've acted like Mikael from 2; whoever you controlled when talking to them could've swapped out. Btw future redeemed doesnt even have ng+ at all.

[@alexstewart9592]

Master Driver would have been by far the more broken of the two. While AI-controlled Rex is a reasonable DPS, player-controlled Rex is only kept in check by the combination of enemy aggro and the fact that he gets two-shot by basically everything on Hard, forcing him to go down, get revived and setup again at regular intervals. In the base game, Guardian Commander says hi and redirects the second hit onward, meaning that you don't go down and thus don't have the downtime.

[@mysteriouscolours1532]

I think not having Linka and Panacea as heroes in future redeemed was a bigger missed opportunity

[@boristussunfire3173]

@@alexstewart9592And then take into account that as an inheritable class, Master Driver could be combined with the Beaming Edge master skill for 100% Crit Rate Double Spinning Edge…

[@Sayyble]

​@boristussunfire3173 you can get Rex up to I think 80-90% crit when he's at like level 70 with the right items in FR Base game it's easier because you have those hero rings that are around the sea and one gives 60% more crit

[@justsomeguyontheinternet2251]

While I do think Future Redeemed is better than Torna, as an overall package, I think 2's DLC is quite a bit better. 2 got a much better challenge mode compared to 3's, 6 new blades compared to the two new classes 3 got, more added side content like new quests, and some other stuff like BOC and custom difficulty (which is weird since 3 has a super hard mode and custom difficulty as well when it was datamined, but never made it in).

[@TXilikakis]

Aren’t the outfits in 2 all accessories? I remember that bothering me. The costumes in 3 are purely cosmetic which is so much better, imho.

[@TXilikakis]

Having Elma as a blade was the most exciting thing to me, though. Love her character art and having access to overdrive was so much fun. Where’s my XCX port!?

[@thenonexistinghero]

@@TXilikakis Probably never happening. Might also be a good thing with how badly they messed up on XC3. They'd probably tie in something stupid to connect it to the main series as well.

[@SJrad]

On the 2 vs 3 comparison, i would have liked if the campsite dialogue in 3 were voiced just like the heart 2 hearts were in 2

[@meisterschwert5565]

With the xc2 weapon types thing, every character has unique animations and arts using each weapon type, whereas xc3's classes always have the same animations and arts, since this changes how weapons play on each character

[@Magic_Ice]

While I love Future Redeemed, Torna will always be so special to me and will always be my favorite story in a Xenoblade game. That plus all of the dlc blades and fun fanservice with Shulk, Fiora, and Elma.

[@jacobmonks3722]

Having not played Xenoblade X, I think Torna is peak gameplay for the series.

[@Pierah]

3 had better DLC character quests, the fantastic Gauntlet Mode and Masha's accessory crafting. 2's DLC kinda did everything else better imo. The DLC characters in 2 changed or broke gameplay in very noticeable ways, whether through insane damage, fixing previously terrible classes or adding brand new combat mechanics like the ability to purge auras, access to Visions and Overdrive. Ino and Masha's classes were... alright, but they really didn't add that much to the game in the grand scheme of things (besides a good inheritable art and skill). Challenges were generally more replayable and interesting than their time attack counterparts. And while a symptom of 2's rushed launch, the more consistent and frequent pacing of content drops and updates kept the expansion pass season way more active in the community. You couldn't go a couple of weeks without having a new set of quests, items or QOL to try out, and that kept people returning to the game and discussing it. Like, if I measure it from an objective content perspective like what is shown in this video, both DLCs are comparable and well worth the money, but I somehow came out of 2's expansion pass feeling a bit more satisfied, if that makes any sense?

[@pamtheman5748]

Stop the presses! Luxin isn't going down a lore rabbit hole for once!

[@Zach984racer]

Xenoblade 2 is a high bar to overtake when it comes to DLC for me... for any game.

[@ohmygoddiosmio9138]

IMO Future Redeemnded > Torna but dlc in base game for XC2 > dlc in base game for XC3

[@GomerJ]

Man, I am still a bit salty that Xenoblade 3 didn't let you level down in base game after DE did- something that pretty much saved the fun of my playthrough for DE. Unfortunately when I saw the training option at the first camp in 3 I assumed it went both ways, and despite having learned from 2 and not using any bonus exp I was overleveled by chapter 4. I felt punished for wanting to explore everything before beating the game. I truly hope the next game has it again.

[@nickbiden9211]

yeah, not be able to level down sucked, especially since you get overleveled even without training at all, and class unlocks are reliant on fighting enemys of your level or higher. i have no idea why they didnt bring it back for 3

[@verixforgotten1121]

​@@nickbiden9211 to make things even worse. Leveling down in 3 once you finally do unlock it is so damn slow. Dont even get me started if you want to level all the heroes down for a new game plus playthrough. Additionally the dlc story doesnt even have new game plus. I honestly feel they added the ability to level down as a last minute addition. Why the heck would i want to level down after i beat the game? Maybe i dunno, i wanted to not be level 99 before fighting the final boss.

[@TheJaredPunch]

I have been playing with Noponic Champion for quite some time now, and I say the class with the right skills and arts, is not as bad as people say. Yes, the dying to power up arts is bad, but Noponic Champion has two arts that have High Aggro (one of which also evades) and a great Stance Art in Dazzling Illusion. With Noble Taunt, and arts recharge boosting, Noponic Champion can draw as much Aggro as Lone Exile and Zephyr.

[@RTMP_]

Building it as a crit recharge-based DPS is interesting, if you pair it with Dazzling Illusion. Spamming Quickdraw fused with Dual Flash when you have a base 50% crit rate as well as eye for weak points means you can become essentially untouchable when you also have an art recharge buff. Sure, the DPS can be pretty low compared to a dedicated attacker class, the class’s innate dodge recharge combined with being a tank and thus recharging talent arts by drawing and maintaining Aggro means you can easily get away with using any talent art to make up for it- my personal favorite being Element Genesis largely due to potential damage from my testing.

[@loaftreos3825]

Luxin has been dropping back to back banger thumbnails

[@EED1_evilsbane]

The thing with comparing the dlc’s is that XB3 had more content AT LAUNCH than XB2 did, so XB2 had to catch up and release all its other content afterwards.

[@thenonexistinghero]

That's not an excuse, both DLC's are equally expensive. And while the DLC expansion game in XC3 was much bigger, longer and more expansive... I don't think it's an excuse for the base game's DLC part to be as poor as it was for XC3. And XC3 was developed on a sytem that the developer was already familiar with using the same game engine (albeit more polished up). And XC3 released merely 2 years after XCX, but XC3 released 5 years after XC2. So in terms of base game DLC additions... quite frankly, XC3 is a gigantic failure.

[@21minute]

​@@thenonexistingheroXC3 was released two years after XCDE, which was a complete remake with its own expansion game. Do some fact check before acting like Monolith Soft spent five years for XC3 and failed.

[@HealerType0079]

I don't know who the 6 are that liked that one but alright. I guess misinformation wins out.

[@MaxWelton]

11:00 you don’t even need any Hero classes to follow Lanz’s ideal party formation: Taion on Tank and 5 Ogres

[@MaxWelton]

1:53 my first Xeno game was Torna because I’d already learned the stories of 1 and 2, didn’t want to deal with the customization, gameplay, and male gaze problems of base 2, and just wanted to try on the gameplay to see if I’d enjoy 3. Then I fell in love with Addam and Mythra and Hugo and the rest is history.

[@derbear3403]

While FR was the better expansion story than Torna, as a whole 2 had a better batch of dlc. 6 more blades, a more fleshed out land of challenge with more rewards, a lot more quests, two additional difficulties, and various other items. 3 in comparison had only two additional heroes/classes and their respective quests, land of challenge, and a small batch of items. While i really enjoy the gauntlet mode of the challenge mode, the time attack is just a slightly improved version of DEs. And the rewards for the mode arent as varied or numerous as the rewards offered in 2s.

[@Arupaca128]

Pythra Myra Moa Nio Fhulk Siora

[@spoogtastic]

Luxin 3 weeks in a row?! LFG!

[@migu6528]

Prefer 3's DLC the two new hero's and their quests lines were great and their classes/skills/arts added new options with the class system as a whole, the new gear refinery is just stupidly broken although I could do without the rng factor, challenge mode is not as good for wave 1 but I far prefer the Archsage Gauntlet and its easily my favorite challenge mode content between the two games(it got even better with Shulk and Rex as new heros too.).

[@MaxWelton]

12:15 yeah, that’s a bad thing. Each Blade having Arts exclusive to or only effective on a certain Driver means random chance unfairly worsens your performance in battle if you don’t have or care about Overdrive Protocols. The only difference between Classes on Ouroboros is certain characters or genders having Art animation differences of a frame or 2. Indistinguishable to the casual player.

[@superpanda5939]

Is it bad that i had to restart the video because I didn’t hear a thing Luzon said since I was to busy recreating the scene that was playing on screen in my head…?

[@Pencil_Frog]

I've only *barely* started the video, but... I'd never thought about XC2 being rushed. That puts things into a whole different perspective, though one you'll have to convince me of. I remember (perhaps incorrectly, we'll see as I continue watching) there being a TON of free post-launch updates to 2. It really set my expectations pretty high for 3, and formed one of my bigger gripes about it, being the lack of post launch content updates. Perhaps I should give it a little more slack. 2 definitely still has the upper hand on post-game content & combat depth imo, but... it's something to think about. Edit: I still have the email for the 15 Legendary core crystals from buying Torna that I never redeemed lmao. Wonder if it's still valid..?

[@briansilva3765]

2 was definitively rushed, at launch the game lacked several features, especially UI related. It had a ton of post launch free content, because they didn't have time to put those in the game at launch. 3 had those from the start, as well as being as incredibly polished, so the free things from 2 were there from launch on 3.

[@Sunray625]

Xc3 dlc doesn't have crossette 0/10 dlc

[@aduck2569]

TRUE

[@Zorgot.]

I love Xenoblade in general, but also love the bite sized mini xenoblade adventures in the DLCs, those are honestly probably my favorite and the only ones I went out of my way to try to 100%

[@alvis1218]

💜

[@JustJulyo]

So much Luxin I love it!

[@jstar3382]

The DLC are kinda comparable, until you consider the challenge battles. The battles in 2 are so damn good. They added in 3 new blades, playing as a villain with an extended moveset, and a lot of really unique concepts. 3 has a roguelike, which is fun. but not even close

[@migu6528]

I find the rougelike better then all of that imo

[@Baltaczar]

What I was expecting of 3 was 4 more classes, why? Because Noah and Mio where the inheritors of the 2 dlc classes, so the 4 more would be inherited by the other party members to keep it balanced and besides theres half the amount of defenders than attackers or healers even with dlc, whether this classes would be dlc or ng+ is up to question, and one last thing i was expecting of ng+ was the possibility to get either more gem, skill or accessory slots (art wouldnt make sense), there is always a skill i want to use that doesnt fit or some skills that will always be shafted aside because you only have 3 slots (like the lost vanguard more tp skill, not necessarily bad but you will always have a better fill for that slot)

[@kingspheal363]

I have to say the 2 dlc was better, that challenge mode really gave me a reason to optimise the characters and get better at the gameplay. It probably just comes down to me preferring 2s gameplay overall since I didn't get much out of the nopon trials

[@jstar3382]

I miss custom difficulty. I liked taking cloud sea king ken, nerfing all of his offense, raising his health to the max, and then smashing the poor fucker into the ground for 5 minutes straight to get moon matter chips

[@lpfan4491]

The weirdest bit is that it actually is in the gamedata of 3(alongside a very hard difficulty), they just didn't let us play it. Maybe they were afraid that it would be too powerful or sth?

[@Gameboy-2007-yt]

8:09 whas that... THE LICK? IN XENOBLADE 3?!

[@NX_TV]

for the Blades VS Heroes gameplay variety thing, I'd say it would have been more interesting in 3 if each of the 6 Main Party Members unlocked 3 different skills to use outside of the class. that would have made each character way more unique and give more build options

[@rhettmitchell]

Finally a short Luxin video (jk Luxin plz don’t stop making movies)

[@jstar3382]

19:37 This is the exact same argument you made with classes, but inverted. There's less ways to use those combos of costumes

[@bluevalor491]

Uploaded 30 seconds ago… damn I’m early 😂 Literally started playing Torna again today so this is amazing timing 🔥

[@rebellious6660]

Done with Riku stuff for now that is, right?

[@Rascalli]

i just wanted to play with rexs class on mio

[@sincere9222]

Curse you, membership early access. Teased me for a week.

[@reforgenarsil]

The only real glaring omission from XC3 was the bringer of chaos and custom difficulties; I’ll never understand why that wasn’t added

[@verixforgotten1121]

I thibk my only complains for xenoblade 3 dlc is tgat we didint get custom difficulty. The option to level down durring a first playthrough, And ultimately that we didnt get a dlc damage class. We have space for one more class, it bothers me to no end we never got one more class.

[@theimpersonator7086]

Outside of FR, found 3's DLC to be a huge missed opportunity. No Rex/Shulk as classes, even though you can easily break 3 anyway with Evasion Art Spam FMJ and Elemental Genesis Seraph. They could have even done classes and heroes for Xenosaga/Gears/and other Blade characters. Meanwhile, the Challenge mode(outside the rouglite) wasn't as good as 2's. Also no QOL stuff like Level down not locked to post game, no Chain Attack and Menu theme toggle, etc.

[@kennethdouglas21]

I had to speed past the into because watching that Zeke cutscen was triggering me

[@tenshi7751]

15:47 wait isn't that a spoiler for blade nia? (Obv doesn't matter just wanted to point it out)

[@tirex3673]

For some reason, I did collect and spend 539 gold nopon coins despite having noah's amiibo.

[@VentusDoesStuff_Legacy]

XC3 missed another opportunity with it's future redeemed update regarding a hero and her class not being added to the base game. Not being named because spoilers. Even though Shulk and Rex's classes are technically better than hers, it'd at least fill in that last slot in the class menu, and let fans of said character be very happy.

[@marshall4134]

That's the content I signed up for

[@shinxshinra]

Surely I must be blind. Surely Luxin hasn't posted back to back, right?

[@maxime_j]

Cant wait to finish xc3 to catch up on all your videos

[@ligeringspirit1133]

3 simply the best 1 because we could see 2 main character grown up

[@YoshiPasta]

Really wished the alt costumes from 2 didn’t take a aux core/item slot :/

[@Trashedaccount123]

My biggest nitpick with XC3 is having underleving locked post-game because being over leveled really punishes you with class leveling

[@MiguelHernandez-lo5lg]

The DLCs for both games are pretty comparable imo. 2 had a whole wealth of QoL updates and fixes. They were nice, but ultimately they are just stuff that should've been present at launch. The actual DLC content received outside of Torna was fine. New blades were cool, but a good majority were broken reskins. Extra blade quests were added, but blade quests just dont feel as special compared to 3's hero quests. Torna was Monolith's first mini Xenoblade experience and was pretty fun, although the second community block was kind of annoying. Xenoblade 3 featured less QoL updates, but the game already had a lot of them so that doesn't matter much. Xenoblade 3's challenge mode was okay (the lack of unique challenges was what hurt it imo) but the new outfits were good. The two new hero quests were about as high quality as the base game ones so thats already a strong start. Then we have Archsage Gauntlet which is my personal favorite endgame activity in the trilogy. And do I really need to describe how good Future Redeemed is? TLDR: 2 has a lot more content, but there isnt a whole lot new outside of Challenge Mode and Torna (both of which are quite good mind you). 3 offers less content, but a lot of it is of generally higher quality. The Archsage Gauntlet, FR, and the two new heroes (technically 4 but ehh) really propel 3's DLC.

[@obamaorb7426]

Overally I'd say xenoblade 2s dlc because of the bredth of content it added to the main game in afdition to the extra storyline, but comparing only the story i slightly prefer future redeemed to torna

[@Mario123007]

Even though I think xc3 future redeemed smokes xc2 dlc in totality. The only thing in xc3 dlc that's makes it not better than XC2 dlc without the story expansion, is how a handful of xc3 dlc heroes we have compare to xc2 dlc blades. Masha and Ino are great but wouldn't it be even better if we have existing npcs like Nimue and Mwamba as dlc heroes and even more? Abd ecrn add dlc quests for Ethel and Cammuravi to make up the lack of character development after chapter 5?

[@sonickhable]

As a person who prefers to use costumes based on class to better distinguish what my characters have, the dlc costumes didn't do much for me

[@ia7051]

About classes in Xc2 and 3. I don't know why that matters when comparing DLC, but I also can't let it slide saying that 3 wins because it has "more" customization when every Driver in Xc2 has unique animations for every weapon class, something Xc3 does away with. That is genuinely the WORST part about Xc3's gameplay because every party member plays the same while in Xc2 you get a different playstyle even if you're using the same weapon. Saying Xc3 has "more" classes just because Xc2 has less SHARED weapon types is disingenuous at best

[@skyriotAndKadeGaming]

Before watching the video, my opinion is that the expansion for Xenoblade 2 was better as of how it improved the base game. But if we're comparing Torna to Future Redeemed, its no competition, Future Redeemed was a far better campaign, with it also rivalling even the base game's main campaigns

[@cellanj]

Xc2 dlc gives you crossette that one wins

[@Ennbeard]

XENOBLADE 3 HAS A ROGUELIKE MODE? I HAD NO IDEA. I know what I'm doing this weekend.

[@Sayyble]

It's really fun once you figure out how to break it

[@kos-mos2084]

It was a huge missed opportunity to not have KOS-MOS as the final challenge battle boss in Xenoblade 3. That alone would have saved challenge battle. If it wasn’t for Future Redeemed, I would have not found the Xenoblade 3 dlc contents worth it.

[@wheaties8417]

New Luxin dropped

[@iishiir]

can't wait for the next luxin to release

[@JimC1984]

Xenoblade 2 725 hrs Xenoblade 3 300 hrs. Thats my playtimes I tried so hard to stretch 3 out as well No matter what opinion you have 2 has way more longetivty period Also ive completed all nopon sage challenges in 3 while in 2 i only got them to get the extra blades I loved both, I personally have a soft spot for 2 despite all of its jankiness, just sad its all over. Lastly this is coming from a 40 yr old thats played every xeno game xenosaga being my all time favorite for story, still gameplay and experience wise 2 was such an impact on my life as a gamer gicing its sheer amount of hrs i poured into it

[@tsyumamatsuthehavenofguard32]

I'm sorry but future redeemed aside.... 3's doesn't even compare to 2. 2 had quality of life, a dlc game that was so good it got away with being a _physical_ copy, which i own, new party members, extensions of current party member quests, challenge mode options that not even 3 includes, and of course _triple the costumes_ and new drops tied to a better superboss. Yes 3 does have the extensions of party members and the hero quests are extensions of the main plot, however outside of melia grey and zeon, I cannot think of many heroes that actually existed outside of the bubble of the world they exist in, not to mention, 2 allows you to use as many rare blades as you want while 3 gives you a pitiful 7 you can pick from the _side mode_ and that you straight up cannot control outside of chain attack. Not to mention, you cannot control shulk or Rex's classes, and neither of them can interact with their friends or in Rex's case, his wife and CHILD

[@foggy8298]

4:26 Oof… you said pseudo when you meant quasi…. Awkward…. Career over…. Luxin fell off

[@dave9515]

I like 3's more from the roguelike mode alone. That said the gameplay of 2 and 3 and 1 really don't warrant having a boss rush or enemy gauntlets really. Its too basic to really enjoy doing the same actions multiple times against bosses you fought before etc. I think in an actual action RPG this kind of content would be much more fun. Driver combos are the issue with the gameplay loop. They turn every encounter into training dummies and if a boss isn't easily comboed its usually an RNG test outside of FR's superbosses for the most part like Bioluminescent Bob. Having to balance around driver combos clearly doesn't work and never will. So 3 not having any insane goodies behind its time attack or having easier time attack is a benefit for it. Only Xenoblade i find super replay able is really X. Also you say you wish masha's accessories were required for the challenges in 3 but i don't think that you really would given how bad Monolith made her crafting system. Getting some of her coolest bonuses and accessories is like trying to win the lottery 14 times. Hearing how much of a terrible gatcha it was ruined my hype for masha on arrival. I really also think its lame that blades like Telos and torna were locked behind NG+ since that's a significantly easier experience than NG since you have everything available to you that you did before NG+. BOC mode also is a lot like 3's very hard mode and rage strikes are not that crazy but 3 already has something like rage strikes and worse situations like Joran fight has Joran able to one tap your healers and two tap every party member even tanks and he bleeds etc. Playing through 2BOC recently again and if you abuse volcano, draw a break blade for rex and something like Nim on Nia assuming you don't choose to break the game with DLC making there be no challenge and by DLC i mean Corvin and Crossette then the experience is similar and i would even argue the almost exact same as playing through 3 on a new game on very hard. I say almost cause the first 2 chapters of 2 BOC have far easier fights than the ones in 3 on very hard. Ethel is a pain and the counsel fight is super rough since you don't have much options yet. 2 opens up faster than 3 but 3 has better difficulty pacing i would argue. I don't think rage strikes could have ever worked in 3 nor do i think 3 needed something above very hard actually since anything above would be approaching even more rng reliant territory thanks to trying to balance the game with driver combos in mind. 2 is only hard up till Morag joins at most and even then i would argue Malos and Akhos are not hard but it relies on RNG same with Lilah for the most part. 2BOC doesn't have much hard fights at all even on BOC. Wulfric fight is hard and i would argue the hardest boss in 2 on BOC as thats the one where if you get a magnet chip for nia's dromarch and use your specials accordingly you could probably outsponge the spider but even then driver combos can randomly speed up the fight making there RNG elements yet again. 3 has RNG elements as well so you could make similar arguments where 3 isn't really hard either but even then you can do well without driver combos in 3 at the start for the most part once you can start reclassing and have enough healers and maybe tanks to just outlast a boss although the fights would be like extremely long till you can set up bleed/blaze and other stuff that could speed it up but why would anyone play any blade game without abusing driver combos? Hopefully in the next game for blade they ditch driver combos as it was a cool idea on paper but in execution it does not work and hinders replay potential and difficulty possibilities. Given how Monolith has been hiring people who have experience with action games and Triple A titles maybe that means the next game might be an action RPG this time. Also with 2 BOC if you aren't playing Nia till Morag joins for the most part what are you doing cause the AI in blade games suck at their jobs. They also tend to switch once a blade leaves cooldown even if it makes no sense to switch making it infuriating to keep up driver combos.

[@byronlyons3548]

Eh, no, there's much more to 2's combat than just Driver combos. Sure you might have a point with 1 and 3, as they boil down to activate Chain Attack, the win button, the game. 2 on the other hand has much more going on, to where you have more options for high damage, to the point where you don't need Driver Combos, Blade Combos, nor Chain Attacks. You could just arguably do it with just the blades abilities, and arts cancelling. Hell, even with quirky mechanics of the later blades, such as the DLC ones, which yes, includes even Elma. Even the spoiler character, despite how they can be outshined by Mythra when maxed out affinity and with a high end core chip, due to their high AOE damage. Just a bunch of varied ways of providing damage, that you don't always need to Drive combo an enemy into oblivion. It's just one of many viable options to do damage, that it's that varied and more complex the combat system is in 2. So for that, and 2's DLC challenge mode being much more varied, and just as challenging matches. Still ends out on top of 3 and it's Roguelike gauntlet. Because pre-prepping your Heroes with accessories to fit them, to be beholding to it's RNG like a Gacha mechanic, to end up not getting ones you want during the run. Yeah, that's not doing it for me, nor a lot of people when we get down to it. T-elos isn't behind NG+, it's only by beating the game, unlike the Torna blades. Also mostly for just Challenge Mode, rather than main story. As for X. No, just no. Spam arts to win is not the way to make that replay-able really. And I'll be honest, even though it's still a souped-up 1 combat, but I think the combat was better without Overdrive. As before then on my replay, I really had to think of what arts to use at a critical moment, and making best use out of Soul Voice prompts to heal. Which is still a negative of how little there is on the way of healing. Ultimately though, the whole scroll bar to go through in order to select an art still holds it back, unlike 2's where arts are hot keyed onto just the buttons, to get rid the tedium of selecting arts. X's combat over relies on the use of Overdrive, just to handle the overly HP sponges that are Tyrants, big monsters, and bosses. And further more, no tor your idea of getting rid of the Driver Combo. Yeah, not wanting it to go and be as lame as X's combat in all honesty. Hell, even FF7 Rebirth shows how god awful combat can be, without something like this to give the players a chance to mess with the enemies. To where it devolves into just attacking, dodging, or parrying, hoping to build up the Stagger meter in order to do big damage against the enemy. But until then, you're just hitting and running from an unstoppable HP sponge, more often than not. Rarely given the opportunity to interrupt the enemies attack, beyond just Stagger. If that's your idea of making the combat "better", or "interesting", then I'm sorry, but it ain't. That's actually what will hinder replayability. Tedious =/= Difficulty. Remember that.

[@dave9515]

@@byronlyons3548 You have not brought a single counter argument in favor of 2 actually. Also no Rebrith's stagger and equipment systems are top notch. So much replay ability with Rebirth. 2 just boils down to driver combo spam. Stop trying to sound smart when you are not. The only viable way to kill enemies in 2 BOC is driver combo enemies into oblivion and abuse volcano. In normal yes there is more but 3 has the most variety even in very hard mode and even then you would dumb not to abuse the broken rigid mechanic baked into the systems from the start especially when its so hardcoded into how the game is balanced and designed which BTW is extremely flawed. Stop sucking off 2 and defending bad combat with the series in general also no X being arts spam makes it way more fun than just spamming driver arts. 2 has simplistic combat far simpler than 3. Every blade game isn't complex beyond X so stop trying to act like you understand the games when you don't. Also Do you know what Roguelikes are? Also beating the game for stuff like Telos means its effectively locked New game + so thanks for proving my point there as well. Just stop talking cause you don't play the blade games or other games enough. Also no Mythra isn't that good in BOC. Pyra is much stronger in BOC. You don't understand 1 or 3's combat at all nor do you have a grasp on X's combat and if you hate overdrive then don't use it in X? You can make a soulvoice build and beat the game without overdrive. Rebirth is not just hitting unstoppable damage sponges till enemies are staggered. You can combo sephiroth in rebirth and juggle him. Big Bosses can be staggered mad fast and parry is fun so are all the build options in Rebirth and none feel as rigid as driver combos in the Xenoblade series. You didn't even understand my points and lashed out in anger like a true Xenoblade 2 fanboy. Xenoblade driver combos do not work. Monolith tried to make them and they don't. Driver combos are too rigid and overcentralizing to have an semblance of being fun at all turning every encounter into training dummies and even on normal modes if your argument is you don't have to use them then i am sorry but you already lost the argument to begin with since they are baked into every combat system not named X. You don't know what engaging gameplay or fun combat looks like and when rebirth hit you with it you hated it cause you hate reacting and thinking and clearly did not engage with the materia system or skilltrees as well as equipment slots much. You probably rushed through the game then got mad when you got roadblocked by a boss and said it wasn't fun anymore because you didn't engage with sidecontent so you missed out on tons of equipment and stuff. If i am wrong then you sound even worse to me.

[@dave9515]

@@byronlyons3548 Also Overdrive improves about everything in 2 making driver combos even more busted and fusion combos once again arguing in favor of my argument and you didn't even realize that. In Normal Elma is a chain attack Queen like Kosmos. Also no Pneuma sucks if you were talking about pyra/Mytrha's true form with spoiler blade and if Nia no she also sucks outside of healing on the malos fight in Cliffs of Morytha. Nothing good about Pneuma beyond having access to every element which isn't even a boon on BOC. And if talking about Pandoria or Brigid those blades suck overall too even if Eye of shining justice is a cool mechanic that would rock in action based combat.

[@dave9515]

@@byronlyons3548 Now my ideal action combat system for blade would be something like Star Ocean or even Tales of Series before arise. Ys has a great modern combat system Monolithsoft could get inspired from.

[@dugtrioramen]

The future redeemed and the rogue like mode carried 3's dlc so hard

[@feluriandelights4156]

Congrats for your 3 weeks and freedom from Xenoblade 3 until its cold grasp holds you again

[@themegatonmenace1224]

I think that you could argue that future redeemed is better than torna the Golden country, however Xenoblade 2 has better DLC overall

[@princeofhyrule2205]

XC2 had the definitive DLC in the entire XC series. Torna is my favorite additional story in XC and all the extra blades, NG+ features, and challenge mode in XC2 just puts the extra content in the other XC games to shame

[@tsunderemerc2963]

Its kinda nutty how Xenoblade stuck to the older 'expansion pack' idea for DLCs that you dont really see as much anymore, where the DLC is basically its own game. Torna is Xenoblade 2.5 rather than some assorted missions tacked on to the main game, and so on. Though in hindsight Future Connected is my least favorite lol. I dont hate it or anything, I just find it the weakest DLC campaign even if its giga based to make a new story for XB1 after that long.

[@munchrai6396]

I do appreciate the extra flexibility that Xenoblade's class system allows, but a lot of the nuance is lost compared to 2. Xenoblade 2 used its larger roster to great effect by having several blades that stretched their utility so much so that no longer fitted cleanly into one of the three team categories. A lot of the Torna blades do this really well, both Cressidus and Mikhail are tank blades capable with healing capabilities, something that is virtually non-existent in 3 outside of the Soulhacker class. Out of the 26 classes there is only 1 attacker that can function as a tank, 3 healers with good damage output and 0 tanks that do anything more than take or evade hits. Doesn't help that you have classes like Heavy Guard, Thaumaturge and Stalker that are entirely eclipsed by later classes in effectiveness

[@jeans8940]

2 dlc set my expectations too high

[@jstar3382]

12:39 the argument of "oh well 3 has more weapon animations" doesnt work. There's a ton of reused animation between classes

[@huwareyou9512]

Monolith soft adding the perfect levelling down system in DE only to ruin it in Xeno 3

[@lpfan4491]

Monolith not even adding a seperate graphic for level downs, so the game still says I leveled up when I level down in 3 and FR(Most minor nitpick, but DE didn't have that issue, iirc):

[@dullededge1395]

bro is useing nia with finch i don't think you could make a worse build in xenoblade 2 if you tried

[@HolyCow0273]

Xb2 dlc: best base game content Xb3 dlc: best expansion

[@mrmiesfies3941]

For the most part I hated Torna. FR is king.

[@lpfan4491]

Funfact for Xenoblade 2 being rushed...it is not even just "fairly obvious", there is legit proof that NG+ was always intended to be included. If you load in a NG+ savefile into version 1.0(easiest done on emulator. And yes, Xenoblade 2 has 0 safety checks to prevent this. Other games like Kirby Star Allies would just not read the savefile if it was from a later gameversion), then you have leftovers galore, even fully localized into the diffrent languages. The NG+ blades seem to crash the game if you try to use them(Maybe vital assets like voicelines are not in the gamedata yet? I didn't look too far into it), but the plans for them were clearly final. The NG+-driver skill trees were also all in, through Zeke had a luckboost that was later replaced by Unleash Shining Justice in the patch. Notably, as far as I could see in the buggy and slightly crash-prone testing, the actual DLC Blades vanish, those were actually developed after the game came out and weren't "On-disc"

[@bignosenoats626]

3 had better DLC in my opinion.

[@Limit5482]

Torna was so bad. There was almost no story and just like 80 fetch quests. Future Redeemed was insane and my fav so far. Still like Xenoblade 3

[@dizzyydevil]

[@iishiir]

finch.