Pros And Cons Of GURPS As A CRPG

Рет қаралды 13,022

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 99

@adammoynihan2589 2 ай бұрын

Tim destroyed that source code like a Wizard disposing of an ancient magical artifact that would be found and reassembled 300 years later and doom humanity.

@yurisonovab3892 2 ай бұрын

The Source was divided into ten fragments, which were spread across the land and sealed away so that their power may never be used for evil. But now, the Empire's hunt for the Source has grown more fervent, two pieces already lay in their hands. What will become of the world if they claim the Source's power?

@Superman0308 2 ай бұрын

I love how thorough and extra the disposal process was for the backup CD.

@OpenGL4ever 2 ай бұрын

Destroying a CD-R in the microwave will pollute the microwave with harmful substances. You should no longer use that microwave to cook food.

@umartdagnir 2 ай бұрын

That would be a good quest. "Recovering pieces of an ancient CD scattered across the town".

@dreamnook9721 2 ай бұрын

"tabletop RPG players have expectations - unreasonable expectations". so true, so true. and I feel sometimes we also are.

@bheathrow 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Tim - I saw the GURPS Fallout booth at GenCon back in the day - that was my introduction to both Fallout and Wasteland. I remember being excited that a potential gold box quality RPG release was going to come out with GURPS (like the SSI releases) that could introduce GURPS to many more tabletop players. Still glad Fallout came out though.

@normalbrain916 2 ай бұрын

Tim, you forgot that I knew the GURPS rules before joining the team. I was a big fan, and when I heard you were trying to make a GURPS game I asked to be on the team.

@CainOnGames 2 ай бұрын

You’re right, JT. There were a few people who knew GURPS. I just remember teaching it to so many people in evening sessions in the upstairs Fitch conference room that my poor basic set binding cracked. But there were a few people who knew it and were excited to turn it into a computer game.

@NoHiro-qc4dv 2 ай бұрын

As cute as it is that Tim is so by the rules he destroyed his old files... Current day game devs reading this: Never delete your files even if the company tells you to. 10, 20, or 30 years later you're going to wish you had those files especially if your game gains a following, and you cannot trust the company to maintain those files. Look at the situation here with Fallout, Black Isle is gone, they could care less if Tim kept those files or not, but the community would do anything to just peek at those files because of the legend Fallout has become. Always make backups, always keep those backups, and if the company asks you to delete them tell them you did but don't actually do it. Keep them for the memories for you, and if the game becomes legendary in a decade or two you'll have something cool to show the fans.

@kolardgreene3096 2 ай бұрын

This is the GURPS video I've been wanting. The point you made about pacing is too real. Thanks, Tim!

@player1_fanatic 2 ай бұрын

Hi Tim, Thanks for doing a deep dive on this.

@fanda6122 Ай бұрын

crpgs have new life with all these console ports, would love to see new games with older systems like adnd, gurps or weg d6

@SethStoker 2 ай бұрын

This is along the same lines, but what was your favorite pen and paper system? D&D, Gurps, vampire, etc… And what one would you like to make into a video game (again if you already made a game on it)

@CainOnGames 2 ай бұрын

That’s a tough one. As much fun as GURPS was to code and as complex and un-computer friendly D&D is, I think I’d lean towards D&D. It was my first TTRPG, and I own so many books and accessories for it.

@JDSByrne 2 ай бұрын

@@CainOnGames It does seem like if anyone could codify a ruleset that could be used across both TTRPG and CPRG, it would be you. Have you ever been tempted to create your own from scratch? It would be amazing to have a system that could be used to do a TTRPG in the Outer Worlds universe - I think that would be amazing!

@CainOnGames 2 ай бұрын

I’ve thought about making a ttrpg set of mechanics, but what is easy to code isn’t necessarily easy for people to understand, and vice versa. The intersection is small, and not many of my ideas fit in there.

@euanhastie6779 2 ай бұрын

I've written a (Farming) sub system for a TTRPG before. The book version was a couple of pages, the spreadsheet version was hundreds and hundreds of lines calculations...

@AaronVictoria 2 ай бұрын

This video came at an interesting time as I just finished the coding of a framework for my own Bethesda-like RPG, and since I'm not much of a designer I've been asking friends of mine that do lots of design work for suggestion. So far, the majority of them suggested using GURPS for inspiration. I planned to grab a few books next month to see what all they offer. Great video as always!

@kolardgreene3096 2 ай бұрын

GURPS rules. I prefer the 3rd edition or "Classic" version. There's not a huge number of differences between that and 4th edition, but those differences come out in play very differently. I also think 3e is better organized than 4e, but really I think it's just more beginner friendly and explains optional rules and how to adjudicate such things with more care.

@AaronVictoria 2 ай бұрын

@@kolardgreene3096 Thanks. Many of my friends also suggested 3rd edition, so seems like a common outlook. Will be diving into it next week, to see what I can see.

@MrZoichi 2 ай бұрын

I personally love learning new RPG rules. It's always fun to see how somebody views the rules of the world through dice.

@PrettyGuardian 2 ай бұрын

I used to love pen and paper GURPS. For me, the mechanics felt more immersive such as disadvantages and quirks, or even the damage mitigation. I didn't know Fallout was based on this system until watching Tim's videos.

@Baraz_Red 2 ай бұрын

Well, Solasta is an example where TTRPG players, including those who know 5e well, appreciated the implementation, the UI (not for visuals, but as user-friendly), etc. So fans of an IP or of a ruleset can appreciate and be satisfied I think. BG3 is a bit different because some alterations were odd (BG3 Mirror Image; BG3 Shove, no Dodge), and not related to adapting to a video game environment, while others were good and appreciated (like each weapon giving a special weapon ability once per Short Rest). Anyhow, I use mods for the changes that do not sit well with me (mainly Invoke Duplicity, Mirror Image, Shove).

@Superman0308 2 ай бұрын

You ever played Colony Ship? Is a Post Apocalyptic Scifi Generation Ship game, where the comments around GURPS, HP, and emphasis on Block/Dodge vs being giant HP sponge kind of reminded me of the approach in Colony Ship. If you play on non-Hero mode, you really have to pick your battles.

@PavelHolub-or2ku 2 ай бұрын

I think for a game that aspires for realism the advantage build up/down can work as a first line of health. There must be some better word for that. Components of the "advantage " are situational awareness (boxing traps😅), pacing, momentum build up, agility, structural (shielding, balance) for an idea...

@qwest9227 2 ай бұрын

love your videos tim

@ItsTheRealJefe 2 ай бұрын

"Someone logical" :flashes Vulcan Salute; I Grok this

@yurisonovab3892 2 ай бұрын

One of the primary limitations of a completely free form character builder is that players will all start to blend together to some degree.

@Skiad-OpsGash 2 ай бұрын

Savoir faire made a grand comeback in Disco Elysium.

@galdersrontgorrth 2 ай бұрын

found an old interview from a series called matt chat (you've been on there too) where the guy interviewed brian fargo. and according to him, they really didn't like the violence in fallout and refused to approve of the game in that state.

@bruceschlickbernd8475 2 ай бұрын

I asked Steve Jackson on what happened to Fallout and GURPS. He said he didn’t really know. He look genuinely bewildered. Now, whether he just didn’t want to talk about it, and used that as a cover, I couldn’t say, but he looked sincere to me. So, I asked Chris Taylor, and he gave me the same story as you quote: Steve had veto power, he vetoed for reasons of too much violence, and it was way too late in the process to have to redo the game, and Steve was adamant. It was easier to jettison GURPS than change the game. Tim may have a different explanation, but I got these both directly from the sources at various Strategicons, in person.

@euanhastie6779 2 ай бұрын

@@bruceschlickbernd8475 I've heard the same response from Steve Jackson at a GURPS convention, he is almost always quiet when potentially contentious issues come up. But he has managed to be a name in the gaming industry for a long long time, possibly with the help of that strategy.

@IamHomelander 2 ай бұрын

Hi Tim, it’s me, everyone. Love your content, please produce more :)

@euanhastie6779 2 ай бұрын

Dang, I was literally going to post this very question. (But I would have probably phrased it in a more confusing manner, to be honest) There are the various stages of negative Hit Points in GURPS, which does increase the number of damage points that can be received, though the point still stands about rhythm incoming damage. 4th edition GURPS is even more thought out in advance, maybe to it's own detriment as a simple fiat is easier to convey to players in some situations.

@FluffySylveonBoi 2 ай бұрын

More than 15 minutes today, yes please. I love to listen to Tim daily ^^

@bruceschlickbernd8475 2 ай бұрын

“Some of their expectations are….*unreasonable*!” Brings video to full stop and laughs. I have a comment about abandoning level based for skill based at Interplay, but I’ll save it until I get to the end of your video.

@wesss9353 2 ай бұрын

Hello Bruce, do you also have any fun stories and wisdom on your career. I enjoy Tim's videos they are informative and educational.

@bruceschlickbernd8475 2 ай бұрын

@@wesss9353 I’m a writer more than a videographer, so I’ll happily leave all on-camera stuff to Tim. He’s much better at it than I would ever be, and stayed in the business much longer than I did. There are odd interviews of me in a few magazines, but that’s about it beyond my comments here and occasionally on my Facebook page (which is usually limited to people I actually know).

@Electric-Boogalo 2 ай бұрын

I was just looking through my traveler's books. Great pen & paper

@KeiNovak 2 ай бұрын

You sure made it so that even a time traveler couldn't grab that CD with the Fallout source code... geez. haha

@punishedsnake492 2 ай бұрын

GURPS is absolutely based system. Not perfect.But for my personal taste - there are no better TRPG system.

@r3m1 2 ай бұрын

Love the shirt 😍

@fasgamboa 2 ай бұрын

I would love to see a blind run! 😎 I do like the idea of not being able to trade blows, as that is nonsense anyway .. killing someone in fallout with 10 shots is weird 😅 But it would required the game to have a different feel/approach, more like a realistic cop game maybe. Some of the examples like the animal handling, dont matter the system, but the narrative, could work for any system.

@jolynecujo123 2 ай бұрын

Hi Tim, big fan of your games and also your videos! Please keep uploading content! If you don't mind, I would like to know your opinion on a personal matter, because I really value your experience and way of thinking. I am a recent SWE grad, and I live in an area where game programming jobs are basically nowhere to be found. I was lucky to have internships at the one company that exists here, but their budget won't allow for a permanent addition to the team at the moment (which is not surprising, the economy here is bad). I know I am good at what I do and that I am passionate about it but the uncertainty of finding a game dev job in this current market, the lack of opportunities locally, having to compete with so many people that were laid off for remote jobs or relocation (which is rare for entry level and junior positions)... I can't help but feel like shit and like I've wasted a lot of time working on games even tho I love it. Should I just give up on my game dev dream and be realistic and settle for other options that pay well and are generally more available like c++ programming or full stack dev?

@CainOnGames 2 ай бұрын

First thing first, it’s never a waste of time doing something that you love. Keep on making games, whether it’s professionally or as a hobby. Second, is there a reason you cannot move to where the jobs are? If you want a game dev job and there are none local, moving seems to be the next step. Third and last, there’s nothing wrong with a non-game SWE job. It can be fulfilling.

@jolynecujo123 2 ай бұрын

@@CainOnGames Thank you! This means a lot!

@jameswbii 2 ай бұрын

Logical "V" indeed.

@bruceschlickbernd8475 2 ай бұрын

As to you introducing GURPS to Interplay: nope. Well, okay, for practical purposes of actually introducing fellow employees, maybe. I was playing Champions and GURPS about the time I was hired at Interplay (1987). My design recommendations for Bard’s Tale III included that we should replace D&D level based systems with skill based similar to GURPS or Champions. Now, Brian wanted to have a new system reserved for after we left EA (since that was in the works), so BT III was MOTS. But, Dragon Wars got Champions - and guess what, a dispute between Fargo and Steve Peterson and Champions got jettisoned, though in this case, I preserved his name as “Design consultant” with Brian’s approval (if it means anything, I know what the dispute was about, and understand Brian’s issue with Steve). So, I got the one, and eventually got the other. Now, whether my recommendation served as any basis for Interplay acquiring a deal over GURPS, Idunno. I presume that was more between you and Brian. I was just excited to see it happening. As to the sudden death syndrome of GURPS. Well, sorta. Champions controlled it better. Which is not realistic - you get shot, you tend to be in deep trouble or dead very quickly. But for gaming, having some sort of decision point that the player can make is better than *bang*, you’re dead. By the time you were at Interplay, I was married and had a son, and didn’t hang around after work anymore for the most part. I had a life. ;-)

@lord_insany Ай бұрын

where is the third part of Lord of the Rings game? huh? I've been waiting 30 years!

@bruceschlickbernd8475 Ай бұрын

@@lord_insany Where is MeanTime? Where is Crossbones? That same Never-Never Land that canceled games go to: Second star to the right and straight on ‘til morning. Some executive quietly sweeps it into a closet, the door is closed, and it never sees the light of day.

@lord_insany Ай бұрын

@@bruceschlickbernd8475 be my dad

@bricaaron3978 2 ай бұрын

GURPS and Middle-earth were the only two pencil and paper RPGs we messed around with in high school. I never actually played Dungeons and Dragons.

@oedipamaas2067 2 ай бұрын

cool shirt tim

@FalloutLorecast 2 ай бұрын

Hey @CainOnGames, been loving your content and stories! Have you considered putting the audio up on all the podcast platforms? I'd love to listen while driving.

@VaunaKiller 2 ай бұрын

That stuff about "whether this is animal or a monster or what" is effectively drove me nuts in Baldurs Gate 3. A good chunk of spells work on Humanoids, but almost NOTHING is "humanoid", even when it is obviously a human-like creatue. I am not into DnD, maybe it is common to a ruleset, but damn was it confusing and irritating

@ItWasSaucerShaped 4 күн бұрын

having colorblind as a trait that greyscales the game and having a bomb puzzle where you have to cut the red wire is absolutely genius

@grumpyoldnord 2 ай бұрын

GURPS!!!

@quodpipax 2 ай бұрын

I would love to see if you could show how exactly were you programming the engine back in those days, how were you writing libraries etc for Fallout.

@kylestevenson9699 Ай бұрын

Do you have any tips for text adventures games that are fairly open world (not strictly tied to a flow of rooms/multiple choice, but more of a singleplayer MUD style rpg)? Currently things are going well, but I was curious if you have any tips that I should think of or other consideration. By the way this game is my first one that is actually going really well compared to previous projects. Currently I have player inventory, stats, world movement and basics for streamlining creating new dungeons implemented. Basics of a quest system, magic system, and combat system layed out. Even have a portion of the broader story narrative figured out, though not much of the finer details or characters. Will probably need to do a major rewrite eventually though to catch up on some of the technical debt from learning and implementing better solutions for new old features. (For example combat system has the features for magic added in for particular cases, but is a little messy.)

@CainOnGames Ай бұрын

It sounds like you have everything under control. Are you keeping world variables so you can have reactivity to the player’s choices, as well as achievements and end slides? With all that you’ve done already, you’ve got a game!

@kylestevenson9699 Ай бұрын

@@CainOnGames I have started working on something that can definitely be extended toward that, I have a class dedicated to tracking whats been done in the world and in dungeons(initial purpose is to eventually be a memory saving route by allowing me to drop unused dungeons from memory while being revistable and to allow repeated areas to have different scene outputs based on if you been there, completed a quest, etc by using an array of 1s and 0s). Using records I store in that class with my Event Manager class (currently just uses random numbers based on defined area of the map to define an encounter whether with non-hostile people, bandits, or one of the various monsters) and then decide certain way ingame behaves according to that information and with the Quest system to control how the story reacts, adapts, and ends based on the player's choices. That's something I think I can do.

@Haken00 2 ай бұрын

Damn I love the way the original Fallout turned out, but playing as a blind eunuch sounds like a very interesting experience :)

@zentonil 2 ай бұрын

That shirt is 🔥🔥

@Anubis1101 Ай бұрын

Blindness is an interesting one, but I think it is possible! Instead of rendering visuals, the player would only see things they could perceive - namely sounds, since that might already be implemented for stealth mechanics, but I could see other things. Just have a little visual blip for every little sound effect, and I think blindness could still work.

@Anubis1101 Ай бұрын

For color blindness, I'm currently working on a system that replaces colors. The primary reason was because different species would see colors differently, but that inherently applies to color blindness as well! It was a lot easier than I thought; it's just an extra step before colors are passed to the shaders. If I get a portable demo of it working, I'll link a video or something. Might be a bit, I'm working on other areas.

@PretendCoding 2 ай бұрын

I don't know about other engines, but Unreal Engine has an option to simulate color blindness to various levels and types, so having a colorblind character could be pretty easy, but yeah, your point still stands: what if the player is also colorblind?

@wesss9353 2 ай бұрын

Hey Uncle Tim, When I become the guild leader why can't I send our minions to do things? From the programming side? I don't think it would be that difficult. Defend X location from bandits. Go pillage X location Things like that I believe it was mafia 2 that let you send minions to defend or pillage X location. Or would it be for the player has to go? (I don't listen to Minutemen radio because a settlement is under attack, but that settlement has 60 defence )

@shawnwolf5961 2 ай бұрын

To me, it's really sad that the company didn't let you keep the work you did. I'm sure there's some sort of legal stuff way above my head to it, that I don't understand as a layman (and just a consumer of games, not a developer--again, stuff like that is way over my head).But I just think, whenever you mention this on the occasion that you do, how much documentation was lost. You'd think there would be a way they could let the person who worked on xyz, keep their work for it.

@bricaaron3978 2 ай бұрын

I think it's sad that a system of rules can be legally protected in the first place.

@thebolas000 2 ай бұрын

@@bricaaron3978I know that in tabletop games mechanics aren't protected, just presentation. So you could have the same rules as D&D, and as long as you use different names for the game terms and rewrite the definitions, you're probably good.

@bricaaron3978 2 ай бұрын

@@thebolas000 That would seem sensible, but I don't see how that can be the case given what I understand from this video. In fact, GURPS stands for Generic Universal Role-Playing System. I'll have to look it up, but I don't think there _is_ anything but a system of rules. I am disgusted with the state of copyright law. If inventions --- which are important to humanity --- can only be legally protected for seven years, it makes no sense to me that Mickey Mouse can be legally protected for a century or more. Copyrights should be seven years just like utility patents.

@Nastara 2 ай бұрын

I would be interested in your opinion on the different styles of ttrpg: -OSR -Tactics Skirmish -Storygame -etc

@UlissesSampaio 2 ай бұрын

9:30 yeah, that is the good stuff! 😆 Though likely hard to balance, deadly videogame or TTRPG combat feels much better imo.

@TyrusDev 2 ай бұрын

Hi Tim, are you aware of any rulesets similar to GUPRS, that you would recomend as a starting point for a game, that are also free or open source?

@euanhastie6779 2 ай бұрын

GURPS lite is free from the SJGAMES site

@Grulf993 2 ай бұрын

GURPS Lite

@UlissesSampaio 2 ай бұрын

Oh, 16:27 hurts. Would be awesome to have a GURPS fantasy CRPG. Throw in Martial Arts and you get the ultimate CRPG

@Adamthegeek70 2 ай бұрын

GURPS is the best RPG.

@LordMuzhy 2 ай бұрын

I had no idea what GURPS meant so I had to google it 😅

@Vheneu 2 ай бұрын

1:40 so what youre saying is… its out there somewhere🤨

@JurorNumber24 2 ай бұрын

Blank CDs in the microwave, childhood memories...

@LOC-Ness Ай бұрын

i honestly wonder if you could have a small language model act as an artificial dm. i've always felt like the lack of a "dm" makes rpgs emulating tabletop rules ring hollow, but if you had something that can emulate a human playing that role as part of the engine...

@PlacidDragon 2 ай бұрын

What, unreasonable expectations ?! Noooooooooo... that just sounds silly Tim :D

@driver3899 2 ай бұрын

Do you thing making your own custom TTRPG to suit a setting, then programming it into a CRPG is a viable way to approach making a game?

@CainOnGames 2 ай бұрын

I do. I make a setting before making mechanics, and if those mechanics take the form of a ttrpg, then you can test those mechanics with some play sessions.

@driver3899 2 ай бұрын

@@CainOnGames That is very helpful, thanks for taking the time to reply. You make great videos btw!

@Gadzinisko 2 ай бұрын

I feel like if Fallout used GURPS, it would have became much more known outside of its circle. Lost chance by its creators.

@yaginku 2 ай бұрын

I wanted to ask you this question, since I think every developer/designer dealt with this - how do you deal with a pernicious idea that spreads among your team? Something that sounds right, or is simply an emotional response to something else not working, passed from dev to dev.