PROSE | what is it, why it matters, who's got the best...

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[@BobbyHall-eu1xv]

Lord Dunsany, Gene Wolfe, Tad Williams and Guy Gavriel Kay.

[@jersy6406]

Prose before hose is probably my favorite video title in a long time. :D

[@LienesLibrary]

lol can’t resist a pun

[@mattkean1128]

Loved this video! Cadence is very important to me. There's always that transitory period where I'm getting accustomed to an author's writing, and then there's that moment where our brains sync up and I can anticipate the next beat. That's when it starts to sing. Over descriptive is certainly a thing, but then you have authors who use the descriptions to convey more than just the setting. The state of a room or clothing might tell you something about the character, there are multiple layers of meaning. This can be done amateurishly, either you're bogged down in unnecessary details, or the writer can be too transparent or thinks themselves clever. I say it about everything, but NUANCE! I often get bored with a book even if there's something really exciting happening, just because it's told in a very matter of fact way. It feels like a very long summary. Proud prose snob.

[@LienesLibrary]

Prose snobs unite!

[@osoisko1933]

This can really make or break a story. IMO, this is the case even if you have very sparse prose.

[@osoisko1933]

Verisimilitude - when you're writing something evoking the high Middle Ages, even if it's set in a completely different reality, don't have your characters going, "What up fam! Isn't my new sword the GOAT?" (Unless it's a parody)

[@LienesLibrary]

Agreed!

[@JasonFuhrman]

You forgot the grandaddy of them all: Cormac McCarthy.

[@richardanderson8107]

Robin Hobb, Ursula Le Guin, Mervyn Peake, Guy Gavriel Kay, JRR Tolkien, Patrick Rothfuss, and China Mieville all spring to mind when I'm thinking about great prose I've read in fantasy specifically! Though I think if I really sat down and thought about all the different ways prose can be effective I'd have many more names on the list! Need to read more Gene Wolfe!

[@PikeyCamp]

Brilliant video! We're on the same page here. The rhythm of the word, its like casting a spell.

[@LienesLibrary]

It really is like magic when it’s done well

[@AngelsDontFall]

I was just complimented on having a good prose. So I figured I’d find out what it is !

[@fourthofthesky]

I don't appreciate good prose until I have to struggle through bad ones. That being said, I recently re-read The Name of the Wind and The Wiseman's Fear and I 100% get it. The fairytale-like repetition of threes and the lyrism of Kvothe's story telling, not just when he is telling his story, but also when he is telling a story within the story. I was reading again to see if I cared about book 3 (given the recent news and outrage) , and I do very much care and I'm looking forward to the new novella!

[@LienesLibrary]

Rothfuss's writing really is beautiful

[@jessileemiller]

I completely agree about Neil Gaiman! He has my favorite prose of all time! The way he describes things is immaculate.

[@LienesLibrary]

he really is a genius

[@nitzeart]

Erin Morgenstern has a very whimsical lyrical prose too. It’s so good you’ll forget her character development and plots aren’t the strongest haha though they’re also not bad. I love her books. The Night Circus I think is the reason we have so much fantasy now that is set in a circus or carnivals.

[@zippy_zap9525]

I think people also tend to conflate accessible writing with bad prose. I've read books that were very easy to read, but didn't sacrifice the quality of words on the page. But I get frustrated when people read prose that sounds like a 15 year old wrote it in creative writing class (calling myself out from many years ago) and then call that accessible writing style.

[@ShawnC108]

Yeah Fonda Lee for example has very accessible prose but it is not "bad" at all, on the contrary it is really good. But I often see see people conflate that with her.

[@phen0menos]

Good list! I agree with many of your choices, and I'd add three of my own: - Ursula K Le Guin, to me, epitomises the "surgical precision" you mentioned in the video. She is an incredibly lean, concise writer, but somehow always knows the exact words to choose to convey her meaning. - Terry Pratchett absolutely *has* to be part of the conversation in any discussion of fantasy prose (or simply prose in general). The man was an absolute master of the English language. Humour is one of the hardest things to get right, and not only does he get it right with style, but also crams so much emotion and poignancy into his writing as well. Douglas Adams is the only other writer I can think of who could go toe-to-toe in the realm of absurdist comedic prose. - Iain M Banks is an author I'd recommend to any fan of Joe Abercrombie - he had a similar ability to present incredibly grim events and inject them with a twist of dark humour. He could manage lush descriptions alongside wry humour and sarcastic dialogue and make it all flow seamlessly. If you want a good sampling of his writing I suggest picking up The Player of Games

[@LienesLibrary]

Terry Pratchett is definitely a wordsmith

[@jacekstopa2728]

About Wolfe's other books - yeah, the prose differs but it retains that innate clarity and elegance that makes the New Sun work; without it all the unfamiliar or archaic terms used as if they were obvious would probably be overwhelming. I'd really recommend "Peace", which is also one of Gaiman's favourite novels; not an easy read, but a deeply rewarding one. Also just a great ghost story.

[@LienesLibrary]

might be a good halloween time read.....

[@LEOrgill]

I used to think I didn’t care about prose but recently I’ve started dnfing books because in my opinion the prose was bad.

[@LienesLibrary]

Crazy that writing matters when it comes to * checks notes * writing 🤪

[@hopestarr9869]

I still love books with simple prose, but as I read more I’ve grown to appreciate more complex prose, whether it’s pretty, different, or just extra effective. The best prose I’ve read to date is in An Altar on the Village Green by Nathan Hall. That book had me stopping every few pages just to reflect on how good the sentence I’d just read was. They weren’t flowery, or even filled with those independent truisms you described in your video. It was just the way Hall described things that made me marvel at his skill. And it’s a self-pub book?? (there are more typos than a trad pub book would have but I expect that, and it wasn’t major) Other books I think of when I think of prose I love is The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue (the first book I remember finding pretty. It helps that the audiobook narrator Julia Whelan has a beautiful voice) and The Mirror Visitor series by Christelle Dabos (this was one of the first series I read when I got back into reading, so it’s taken my third reread to realize just how skilled Dabos is at conveying character’s emotions just through the way they move/carry themselves and their tone of voice. She rarely gives dialogue descriptors like “angrily”)

[@joshyaks]

As someone who is so imperiously snooty about prose and the technical aspects of writing and the match between a historical setting and how it is presented that I've spent tens of minutes in some of my reviews breaking down poor (and good) examples of these things, I really appreciate this video! Laini Taylor's Strange the Dreamer duology is perhaps the best example of prose that I've encountered in fantasy fiction, though The Curse of Chalion by Lois McMaster Bujold could perhaps take the top spot, too. An example of slightly humorous prose done very well is T. Kingfisher's Clocktaur War duology.

[@LienesLibrary]

I really enjoyed What Moves the Dead so I definitely want to read more from Kingfisher

[@grand_R]

This is a very useful video, actually, because I love prose that's full of meaning and surgically beautiful (Gaiman, Rothfuss, Bujold, LeGuin) and couldn't stand The Raven Boys. Thanks for the heads-up, haha

[@revpgesqredux]

Give yourself permission to go beyond ambiguity to wisdom. By so doing you will know the infinite value and primary beauty of everything that persists, including the value and beauty granted to you Liene. ✝️❣️🛐💖♾️💞✝️

[@revpgesqredux]

🥰😍🤩🥰🤩😍🥰

[@Jibkopatha]

you should read ursula k le guinn. The Dispossessed. Her prose is just out of this world. The quotableness (?) of it, just inmense.

[@LienesLibrary]

I've been meaning to read her for forever

[@eliotopian]

*walks by yer shelves and slips a copy of the last tale of the flower bride onto them*

[@LienesLibrary]

might have to give it a gander

[@jaredschmidt8440]

Have you ever read Salman Rushdie? He literally dances with the words on his pages. He appears to know exactly what the English language can do with little to no effort. A master.

[@bookslifeandjane]

What a fantastic video idea - I learned so much, thank you ❤

[@LienesLibrary]

Glad it was helpful!

[@mellies.8822]

I love so many authors on this list, Maggie Stiefvater, Neil Gaiman… I would add Daniel Abraham and Ken Liu 😊

[@esmayrosalyne]

I want to write a really profound comment about why I wholeheartedly agree with everything you just said, but I am not the wordsmith that all these authors you just mentioned are, so here we are🤣 Honestly, no more words needed. And now I want to reread NotW, Strange the Dreamer, Raven Cycle and First Law, lol.

[@LienesLibrary]

aw lol it's the thought that counts 🧡

[@MkNcc]

You made me look up versimilitude.

[@nitzeart]

The authors in this list I have read I love, and the rest are already on my my tbr haha. I definitely appreciate good prose a lot in books, and I thunk it can elevate a good story and narrative into something great. I appreciate when it fits the vibe, when it helps the tone and themes, or when it really sort of grabs you across the words to make you feel what the characters are going through. I don’t think a book can become a favorite if or me if it doesnt have good prose 😅 I think Octavia E Butler is another one who has good prose. Oscar a Wilde of course. And Anne Leckie. Margaret Rogerson has pretty good prose too, though contained in a more subdued YA style. Nevermoor by Jessica Townsend nails the middle grade prose style pretty well. Silvia Moreno García has a very evocative style too. Edit: so many typos

[@LienesLibrary]

love Oscar Wilde!

[@someokiedude9549]

Welp, I just did a discussion with one of my writer friends about prose the other day... Perhaps we can talk some time! Lol.

[@DecemberMagpie]

Thank you so much, Liene. I've been trying to understand what prose is for a while now. Hearing all the BookTubers state how good the prose are in book reviews and not understanding what they were talking about was getting a bit frustrating. I have googled the meaning of prose, but the definition wouldn't stick. This video, however, I feel has helped out a lot, and if I ever need a reminder, I feel I'll refer to this video again. The funny thing is I came to understand that my current read is filled with lyrical prose. I'm reading The Memory Librarian and Other Stories of Dirty Computer by Janelle Monáe. Discovering that Janelle Monáe is a singer and songwriter, it isn't overly surprising that her book would have lyrical prose. You may enjoy this book too.

[@LienesLibrary]

might have to check it out! glad the video was helpful 🧡

[@Paromita_M]

All five very important to me as well. Great discussion. Patrick Rothfuss' writing 👌 Laini Taylor's writing was too flowery for me. Gaiman tends to be very hit or miss - like Ocean, Neverwhere, Stardust is okay, disliked Amercian God's and Anansi Boys. Haven't read Maggie Stievater, seems like I should rectify that! 😯 That passage was beautiful. BOTNS didn't work for me at all. 😢 Not an Abercrombie fan sadly. Donna Tartt is an all-time favourite. Love all three of her books. Can probably spend a good amount of time just rereading her books. Didn't like Deathless. 😔 Winternight trilogy - liked Book 1 a lot, Book 2 a little less, Book 3 even less. Madeline Miller is a very good writer, somehow I don't connect to her stories but the writing is great. Only people I'd add are Tolkien, Susanna Clarke and Patricia McKilli based on your criteria.

[@mhatt9773]

The prose in the non-New Sun Wolfe stuff I've read is great. He has an uncanny knack for writing with the same precision while finding the necessary style for the story. I wanna make a joke about those glasses. It involves Audrey Hepburn and Goodbye Yellow Brick Road-era Elton John. Just can't figure out how to word it.

[@LienesLibrary]

I look forward to when you get it figured out

[@lieslherman]

While I can definitely enjoy a book with mediocre prose, it'll never be as much a favorite as something more imaginative. I've been reading more Sanderson lately and overall liking most things, but the prose is just... servicable, and it boggles me a little that he's so many people's top favorite. Makes me feel a bit in the minority, to care so much about how the words themselves are strung together instead of just the plot, and then I see people gushing over Fourth Wing and feel even moreso just... 🤪 I'm happy there's so much variety to suit everyone, but if I have the option, I'd prefer going to a Michelin star reataurant over a fast food joint lol.

[@LienesLibrary]

yeah Sanderson's prose is one of the many reasons he'll never be an all-time fave for me

[@tejara01]

I think I missed the definition of what prose is. There was something about prose being related to interior design? Thanks for the video.

[@jeffrey3498]

The best prose I’ve read is William Faulkner and John Updike.

[@macs3304]

Robin Hobb for sure

[@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD]

Proud Prose snob🙋‍♀️

[@artbyandia]

My favourite authors in terms of prose are Robin Hobb and Oscar Wilde. Not too simple and not too flowery, but just right 👌

[@LienesLibrary]

love Oscar Wilde!

[@julieevans6482]

how much I wish you'd have read Kushiel's Dart before making this video so it could get into the examples (although imo the 1st book is a bit too verbose/flowery, later on it's much more concise while still being beautiful)

[@justgoto8]

I think the best prose I’ve read so far is gormenghast by mervyn peake and the Broken Sword by Poul Anderson

[@LienesLibrary]

I'll have to check those out!

[@AmiRempel]

I’m kinda surprised you passed on mentioning Christopher Ruocchio 😕

[@faye3386]

I haven't formed a concrete opinion regarding prose yet, but I hate when the narrator tries to be "deep," it sounds preachy and edgy most of the time. The quotes people write in their goodreads reviews as "beautiful writing" often helps me decide that I don't want to read the book. There was only one point in my life where a book made me admire an author's writing. It's been a few years but I still remember reading a short story collection by Jeffrey Archer and thinking, "there's really nothing going on in this story but I'm enjoying this writing." I don't even remember any of the stories in the book, I just remember the feeling.

[@shiningyoonie]

My favorite prose-writers are Toni Morrison, Oscar Wilde and John Banville. But there are some great authors famous for their prose but I don't really like, like Vladimir Nabokov or Cormac McCarthy. The cadence and rhythm just don't sing nicely in my head.

[@LienesLibrary]

I love Oscar Wilde

[@UrbaNSpiel]

Nice

[@BreinGames]

Your explanations were about as useful as a third finger in a prostate exam. But I loved it! edit: the explanations not the prostate exam

[@nazimelmardi]

Steven Erikson. Not a mistake why a lot change Tolkien’s first place with Malazan when they finished. Like Philip Case. Again a lot of sci-fi authors care about this more than fantasy authors. Especially older hard sci-fi. Even starting with Hyperion to get an “easy” example. But also Asimov has good examples bc he doesn’t really care about his details on characters but yet your imagination fills it, he describes what he needs and goes on with his mission perfectly. Here goes too the Three-Body Problem. Concentrated writing to the cause. Perfect words as it needed. Chinese culture reflects from it. Way more than from Poppy War.