Moving St. Vladimir's Seminary(?!) - Fr. Chad Hatfield

[@ProtectingVeil]

📙 FREE eBOOK on the wisdom of modern Orthodox Christian elders: social.protectingveil.com/freebook1

[@Fr_David_Wooten]

Good to see this interview. Grateful for the work of Fr. Chad and all our SVS faculty and staff for their tireless work in training seminarians. Many years!

[@irenesupica7449]

I hope that if the seminary is moved, the church will remain a church. The temple that my parents were married in (St. Constantine and Helen Greek Orthodox Church) was sold to the Nation of Islam and is now a mosque. The church my husband was converted in (Holy Trinity, OCA, Kansas City) is now a community center. It breaks my heart to see churches become restaurants, mosques, businesses, and the like.

[@bobk1845]

I’m very grateful for the digitized class lectures of past faculty. More people should be aware of them

[@christylocke5277]

Fr. Chad, speaking with great wisdom.

[@joshandjamesvosperfromhere6887]

Long time listener/viewer and first time commenting. Thank you for this interview. I thankful for the measures that the seminary is taking to prepare clergy and laity for a world hostil to the faith that was once and for all delivered to the Saints. Lord have mercy!

[@windowsoflife]

Amen, Fr Chad!

[@Popscotch328]

Great interview. I watched the whole thing. I remember listening as a child to Rev Hans Boersma preach in the Canadian Reformed Church back in the day. God save and bless Your inheritance!

[@pg618]

A small note of a encouragement please focus on Spanish translations I have been to every Latin country from Mexico to Argentina and the Orthodox are craving I mean really craving to have literature in their own language.

[@tesifongranadino6885]

Yes. The Hispanic spirit is ripe for the Christian Orthodox phronema.

[@ryrocks9487]

That would be amazing if SVS moved to a monastery/seminary model! That’s why St Tikhons and Holy Trinity Jordanville do so well! How amazing!

[@Burgermeister1836]

Either to DFW Texas, or somewhere in the lower midwest/upper south like St. Louis or Nashville. Centrally located and in the midst of the fastest-growing Orthodox areas in America.

[@Hannah-if3cn]

I find it interesting that Fr. Chad never mentioned ROCOR or Holy Trinity Seminary. Especially in light of the fact he mentions St. Raphael, who first was with ROCOR, and he then went on to help establish the Antiochian Church in America. If we are ever to become the One Holy Apostolic Church in the U.S. we need to follow the prayer for "the Living", in which it states, "calm the dissensions of the churches".

[@ExVeritateLibertas]

St. Raphael reposed in 1915 -- ROCOR was not a thing until after the revolution in Russia when part of the church under Met. Antony Khropovitsky relocated to Serbia and then elsewhere. Holy Trinity Seminary was founded in 1948. The roots of the OCA, on the other hand, go back to the earliest Russian missionaries in Alaska and the work done by Sts. Tikhon, Raphael, Alexis of Wilkes-Barre and others in America before the revolution.

[@kadmii]

growing up being able to visit St Vladimir's was a treasure and I think many opposed to it moving are afraid of the hole they will feel. Did Fr Chad mention what would be done with the current campus should the move go forward?

[@ProtectingVeil]

He did not, alas...

[@kadmii]

@@ProtectingVeil I do know that the seminary leadership has, for many years and through many iterations, insisted that the seminary is not a parish. Perhaps it could be made into one? It would be a shame to lose such a beautiful location

[@glenclary3231]

Where is the seminary moving?

[@lwconley2005]

I’ve always thought they should keep SVS where it’s at and then buy a small building somewhere (Texas preferred by me lol but anywhere else will do obviously that’s feasible for them) and then have a seminary branch there… grow it there at for example the Texas SVS and work at that. Meanwhile you have the current where it’s at and a growing one with a growing community.

[@KnoxEmDown]

If a man named Fr. Chad Hatfield can't do great things for his seminary, I don't know who could. That name is just too cool-sounding to waste by doing nothing. I'm definitely in the camp of keeping the property and making a small-to-start satellite campus elsewhere if at all financially possible. If not, which seems to be the case in actuality, then by all means relocate to a comparatively cheap and fruitful location for an Orthodox seminary (e.g. Texas because I'm Texian and biased lol). It'd be a shame to lose the church and buildings of the seminary though, which is why that idea of turning it into a parish/monastery floats around as well.

[@thebeardedbear565]

Wyoming or Montana would be cool!

[@bobdinkytown]

East Tennessee 🙏

[@paisios2541]

What Saints taught that the monophysites have the same faith as us? I have referring to the comments made by Fr Chad about 47 minutes in. Don't we anathematize Severus of Antioch who they regard as a great Church Father? St Paisios said it is "blasphemy against the Holy Fathers" to say that the monophysites share the same faith as us. Are there some other Saints I'm unaware of who disagree with St Paisios? Any help in bettering my understanding is much appreciated.

[@MrWolfman229]

We don't share the same faith with Monophysites, but the conversation relates more to the Miaphysites. The statements are reflective of the interactions between the Hierarchs of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox communions, primarily that came after St. Paisios's repose. Saints are also not infallible and their statements are not dogmatic, otherwise we would have quite the contradictory faith. The issues in our divisions are complex and it is something we should pay attention to our bishops and synods as we are often martyred side by side with them and are discovering our theology has developed similarly with different wording and emphasis reflective of our different cultures. It is something we should all be prayerful over and hopeful that the Holy Spirit is working in the world. Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev has some very interesting writings on this that are very optimistic and hopeful.

[@paisios2541]

@@MrWolfman229 I am referring to the Oriental Orthodox by monophysites, that's what our Saints call them. Saints are not infallible but I didn't say that St Paisios' infallibly speaks on everything. We have to follow SOME Saint. What Saint spoke about a reunion with the Oriental Orthodox? Not a single one. So who are these people conducting these dialogues following? They're not following the Saints. This in fact isn't complicated at all. Was St Euphemia wrong when she worked the miracle at the Council of Chalcedon? She is standing before the throne of God but her understanding of theology is inferior to modern day academics? Has the Holy Spirit been wrong for 1500 years by having the Church call Severus of Antioch a heretic and a blasphemer? This is in our prayers. And he is a Saint for the Oriental Orthodox. How can this work? And even if their leaders suddenly now change their doctrines, that simply means that they themselves are not being faithful to the tradition of their own saints. They are not a part of the Body of Christ, individuals from them can and many in fact do repent and become Orthodox. But to speak of any kind of union with them as a body is absurd. It would be like a union between a healthy body and a rotting dead limb. There can be no union. The Fathers clearly teach that not even martyrdom can wipe away the sin of schism. Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev unfortunately has many erroneous and confused ideas in his writings.

[@MrWolfman229]

@@paisios2541 we don't follow the saints, we follow the Church of which those saints were members of. The saints have many contradictory statements and views, so using that as our guiding measuring stick would lead to a contradictory faith. They were also products of their time, cultures, and information available to them. Sure, they called them Monophysites because of the split at Chalcedon because of political, cultural, and linguistical issues. We now know they are Miaphysites and that the Monophysite accusation was not really that accurate and today is definitely not accurate. This is why we are a living Church that is passed down through the bishops and our synods. The miracles of the saints in these regards are not fixed things that prevent what is happening, but signs for the faithful to encourage and strengthen them. We are not Nestorians and through time and with enough distance we have analyzed our Christologies with better linguistical skills and third party languages both can speak fluently to determine we have the same core beliefs. I am not sure how the saint issue will be resolved outside of not every church venerates the same saints, so if the communions do have a joint declaration of faith and intercommunion I am not sure how they will address it. Still there is much to be hopeful over and our reunion would only help those who are being martyred together by Muslims and other extremists. On your point about Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev, I would never presume to pass such a condemnation on such a highly regarded hierarch. The Church of Russia, Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, etc. have all been agreeing on these points and collectively moving together as they are exchanging monastics and visiting one another more frequently. It's not a sole hierarch or church doing this, but all of them. To somehow paint this as going against the faith is to make vagante claims where the Eastern Orthodox communion is not Orthodox and some small group calling themselves the "True Orthodox Church" are somehow the real Orthodox despite them having questionable Apostolic Succession or claims to saints like St. Paisios who reposed as a member of the Eastern Orthodox communion and was canonized by them. To pick and choose what parts of our faith are legitimate is a very Protestant approach to our faith. We must work with our bishops and synods, trusting the Holy Spirit to guide them. That is faith of Christ handed to the Apostles and transmitted through the bishops.

[@paisios2541]

@@MrWolfman229 is the voice of the Church whatever the majority of Bishops at any given time say? By this logic, you would have been an Arian, or an Iconoclast, or a number of other heresies throughout Church history. You have a completely legalistic and Papal conception of how the Holy Spirit works within the Church. Don't Bishops have free will? Their consecration does not magically make them infallible. The voice of God speaks through those who have been purified and have Christ living within them. We follow the Ecumenical Councils today not because there were a bunch of Bishops there but because the Ecumenical Councils were made up of and were following the Saints. Notice that we in fact do not commemorate Ecumenical Councils. Look at the Church calendar, it always says "the Fathers of XYZ Council". St Symeon the New Theologian wrote a lot about this, how in the early Church the Bishops were selected from amongst the monasteries and lived holy lives, however by his day this was largely not the case, and the Bishops were largely not holy men. What is "the Church". Is the Church the Bishops? The Church is Christ Himself. Christ asks Saul, "why are you persecuting ME?" Christ cannot be separated from His Church, they are one. So when is Christ speaking through the members of theChurch? It is not some magical thing where an episcopal consecration makes a Bishop or a Synod infallible. Christ speaks through those who activate the grace available to us in the Church. There have been heretical Bishops, there have been heretical Councils which were at the time called Ecumenical. Your whole view here is not Orthodox at all. You are taking a Roman Catholic type of view, the opposite extreme to Protestantism. Neither is Orthodox. You are deeply mistaken that we understand theology better over time. All knowledge was revealed at Pentecost. There is nothing new to discover. Christ is the same now and forever. The experience of Pentecost had by St Paul is the same experience had by the Saints 2000 years later. You are simply wrong that there are a bunch of contradictions in the Saints. People repeat this over and over today but it's simply not true. There is a harmony to the consensus of the Saints throughout the entire 2000 years of the Church. All those purified, illumined, and deified by the grace of God have the same experience of Pentecost. St Porphyrios has the same experience and the same knowledge of God as St Peter. It does not develop over time, we do not come to increasingly better knowledge of it over time. Because this is knowledge beyond the rational realm comprehended by the mind. The Holy Fathers set down the dogmas precisely to keep us within the salvific boundaries that cohere with this divine experience. And the testimony of the ones who have experienced God for the last 1500 years is that the monophysites or miaphysites or whatever you want to call them have departed outside of these boundaries and are outside of the experience of God. The opinions of men who lack the experience of God, be they priests or Bishops or Patriarchs, is completely irrelevant. St Paul says to not even listen to him or the Apostles if they preach another Gospel! That statement assume that the faith is known not just by the Bishops but by everyone. The Church is not some company owned by the Bishops where they are free to change things at will.

[@MrWolfman229]

@@paisios2541 you are obviously trying to find the most uncharitable interpretations of everything and trying to operate from the Sola Patristica standpoint that is only an innovation of the modern era because of the accessibility via technology. Nowhere did I say bishops are infallible, but neither are they wrong if I disagree with them nor am I inherently holier or given some special knowledge because I quote saints. Also, clearly all divine knowledge was not revealed at Pentecost or there would have been no need for the Ecumenical Councils and continued councils. Christ entrusted the Church to the Apostles and their successors who even in scriptures had to convene a council because that Divine knowledge of Gentiles being able to become Christians without also becoming Jews was not revealed at Pentecost. The Holy Spirit works among the bishops as the saints have said repeatedly throughout the centuries. To claim only the most rigid bishops are the only real bishops is how you end up in a vagante group who can quote saints but is relegated to a handful of people constantly quarreling in makeshift temples over the Canons and who is the most Orthodox. I remain optimistic that the Holy Spirit is working and we might heal old wounds. That is something to pray for and celebrate. Not trying to find more reasons to quarrel and divide ourselves as more of the world slips away farther from God because we are not reaching out to it.

[@用愛發電-h8o]

Come to north TX PLEASE

[@pg618]

As you say many are afraid to even preach orthodoxy and some of them are quite indifferent towards all the woke ism of America that is atheist.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

Define ‘wokeism’. The term ‘woke’ was coined by Huddie Ledbetter AKA Leadbelly maybe 70 years ago. He used it in the context of blacks living in the Jim Crow South had better stay woke if they wanted to stay alive. You got a problem with that?

[@AncientApostolic]

Come to the center of the country Tennessee!

[@mariorizkallah5383]

Make Saint Vlads Seminary Orthodox Again

[@vanfja]

I support that! Publishing all this heterodox stuff is confusing everyone.

[@claesvanoldenphatt9972]

Hatfield wasted SVS’ reputation appointing the controversialist blogger Rod Dreher to speak at the Alexander Schmemann lecture a couple years ago. Dreher of course was promoting his new book and the lecture was just about his paranoid vision of a nascent Soviet America. If this slippery slope fallacy of Dreher’s is what Hatfield thinks is relevant to an ‘l-word’ education, as corroborated by his statement, “we are living in very dark times”, I do not hold much optimism for the program of development he proposes as being as ‘significant as autocephaly’. The way he de-emphasized the crucial roles Schmemann and Meyendorff played in the organization of SVS and the attainment of the OCA’s autocephaly, and then compares his envisioned leadership into the era of a reorganized OCA Chancery and Seminary suggests he imagines he is the man for the time, comparable to those great lights of the mid XX c. I think not. Hatfield, the culture warrior of sour mien cannot hold a candle to those great men of inspirational preaching and deep theological insight.

[@1otterclan]

Very much in agreement