Protestant inquirer convinced of Eastern Orthodoxy!

#Jesus #orthodoxy #Protestant #Calvinist #denominations
She was faithful to the Reformed tradition which in a strange way led her to the Orthodox Church.
On this episode of The Transfigured Life we enjoy a conversation with Alyia about how she landed towards the direction of Ancient Christianity and the pushback and heat she received for journeying towards this new path!

[@senordiaz1]

When I left my reformed Baptist church it was with many tears. I had a meeting with my pastor and told him that I had to go Orthodox but it was not in spite of them; the church was full of wonderful people who I truly believe love Christ. He basically gave his blessing and told me he doesn't think I'm "leaving the faith". He told me if it doesn't work out that I'm welcome back any time. It was a pleasant surprise and just what I needed at that time. Coming to Orthodoxy is one of the best decisions I've ever made. It is indeed the true Church. My wife and children couldn't be happier. It has resolved so many questions I had about the Faith and the Scriptures and my life. I thank God for all of this. And also wanted to shout out my former pastor for his kindness and wisdom during what was a very sensitive time for me. This was a nice conversation. Glory to Jesus Christ!!!☦☦☦

[@DCWoodWorking]

This is a conversation I know I will have soon and I know it will be hard. We love the people in our protestant church but I can't deny the truth of the Orthodox Church.

[@senordiaz1]

@@DCWoodWorking God be with you 🙏

[@FaithfulComforter]

Lord have mercy on our previous Protestant churches where we encountered Christ. Will be a catechumen before the Fall, Lord willing.

[@sophiejew]

This is so nice to read, I have a feeling me and my boyfriend will be having this same conversation at some point 🙈

[@leoandolino4668]

I became Orthodox at 65yrs old this past year and was baptized the day before Pascha. Basically, raised a protestant and experienced a number of denominations. I took Protestantism by faith - alone- but about 5 or more years ago I stopped going to church. I didn't stop believing that Jesus was the Son of God or in the truth of Christianity at all. But I had moved to another city - a much smaller one - and attended a family members church. During my time at this church the head pastor introduced his new assistant pastor to the congregation, and he began to share his personal story which included reading something from Heretic Kenneth Copeland. It was then I knew it was time to go. The new associate pastor was a likable guy, but he was really not qualified in my opinion as he appeared new to the faith. The fact that he was reciting a heretic proved it to me. So, for several years I quit going. I did attend one service at a local conservative Lutheran Church with a Calvinist minister nephew - I had caused a stir in the family by my unattendance - this was his gesture to encourage me to return to church. Long story short. I was convinced to consider Orthodoxy by a young, intelligent, extremely well read, KZbin personality who also had converted to the Orthodoxy. I then ordered Josiah Trenham's book " Rock and Sand". I was shocked at what I had discovered about the "Reformation" which was really a "Revolution". You cannot reform something by innovation - they go in opposite directions. I also listen to others like Fr. Peter Heers. I was convinced there was something to Orthodoxy as the only Church. In our small city we have a Greek Orthodox Church (the only Orthodox Church in the area) which I attended once during a Christmas holiday in the past. I knew a person who went there. I looked up the church website but was put off when I saw people wearing COVID masks including the new priest in a posted picture. Later after praying for God's help, I happened to see a young priest with his children going into our arena to ice skate (no way was he a Roman Catholic Priest with all those kids in tow). I didn't approach him at this time, but the next time I did - and the rest is history. He is solid Orthodox, and was not pleased at the COVID nonsense. He met with me for several months, I read books he suggested - still have a few left to read, and he baptized this old man in to the Church. I am home!!

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

Thanks for sharing! Love this! Welcome home! ☦

[@Lepewhi]

What does Covid have to do with religion? There are many people who have lost family members/friends to this and other diseases. This is a reason I'm not a Christian, the hypocrisy.

[@HudsonFamily7]

I've been protestant church of christ 46 years of my life. I knew something was wrong with the doctrine. Honestly I just knew it was, " go by the Bible but we don't fast anymore and we don't anoint people with oil etc." I kept going for years then I decided to fast and I believe thats when the lord lead me to orthodoxy. The true Church of Christ

[@Paisios77]

Loved her post. I am an inquirer who left pentecostalism and am sold out to Orthodoxy (was baptized and received into the Church on Lazarus Saturday)

[@nicolelondontv]

Where can I find the post please ?

[@Paisios77]

@@nicolelondontv I tried finding it. It was on Facebook. But I cannot locate it now

[@Theoretically-ko6lr]

Home is waiting for you brother ❤ Glory to God

[@PXLF1970]

I became a member of a Pentecostal church but I see some ambiguity about what is known from our side of those early years of the church. I don’t know anything about the Orthodox Church and I would think that should be a requirement to understand Christianity. Can you recommend literature on the matter?

[@Paisios77]

@@PXLF1970 I posted a link to amazon, I recommend a book called Becoming Orthodox by Peter Gillquist. You wont find many who will look at church history because their group isnt there. Pentecostalism sprung up at the close of the 19th century. Some will attempt to associate themselves with a heretical group somewhere in history to find their place but thats not a good thing lol. The fact that there was only one church for the 1st 1000 years of Christianity was what did it for me. I just had to find out what that church was. I found it and I am an Orthodox Christian now. God bless you and your journey

[@kaybrown4010]

May the Lord continue to bless you, Aliya, as you journey toward Orthodoxy. We converted from conservative Lutheranism over 25 years ago, NO REGRETS! ❤️☦️🙏🏻

[@matthewjamesb.234]

Covert from Pentecostalism. Never regretted it. Alleluia

[@PXLF1970]

I’m Pentecostal but I want to know about orthodoxy.

[@HudsonFamily7]

​@@PXLF1970step out of the pond of Protestantism and into the ocean that is Orthodoxy.

[@nativepollinators]

I can relate. I am Lutheran, but started engaging with a lot of scholarly material on the Ancient Near East/Old Testament via the late Dr. Michael Heiser. That led me to explore further, and listening to the Lord of Spirits podcast, I decided to learn about Orthodoxy. Went to the Divine Liturgy yesterday, and heard a Sermon that was truly biblical and wonderful. Definitely going to pursue this further.

[@emptynester9241]

I feel the same Currently Lutheran Missouri Synod. but I have been studying Orthodoxy and attended my first service a few weeks ago. Felt like I belonged there

[@zealousideal]

@@emptynester9241 what’s wrong with Lutheranism if you don’t mind me asking? I always highly respected them as they are at least an ancient or original solid Protestant tradition. I have a friend who recently left orthodoxy and is looking at LCMS. He says he loves it and tells me how solid and beautiful it is. Ive seen a few videos from Dr. Jordan Cooper and it seems pretty legit. If I wasn’t orthodox I’d probably be LCMS. My priest. Fr. Josiah Trenham said the same. That he would be Anglican or Lutheran if he hadn’t become Orthodox and he almost became that.

[@backinmyrightmind]

Aliya, you will be astounded by the richness that comes to your spiritual life by becoming Eastern Orthodox ❤️☦️. I’m Antiochian Orthodox and spent the majority of my life as a Protestant……Orthodoxy is the way to go.

[@Theoretically-ko6lr]

Orthodoxy is the one and true church. The one and only church God established and promised to preserve until the end of times. Glory to God ❤

[@antonioj.castaneda7377]

Oh yes, I find myself at church more than twice a week for either a vesperal liturgy, a bible study, a Paraklesis service, obviously vespers and the divine liturgy, etc. The Church is LIFE. IC XC NIKA ☦❤

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

So true! It is life! ☦

[@acekoala457]

The Church is like an Oasis to me in a desert Especially since I must travel so far to be there.

[@joshuaduncan235]

I saw Aliya’s post as well, and I even had some similar theological stops along my path to Orthodoxy. Those disciplines and structures she talked about really do change lives. My family and I are living proof! Praying for God’s blessing on her and her family’s journey!

[@nicolelondontv]

Where can I find the post please ?

[@JohnAnon-mh5el]

Welcome home, Aliya. God bless your journey. 🙏☦

[@ststrength5044]

Great interview. I relate as I grew up charismatic, became reformed (reformed baptist) and the past 6 mos or so have being discovering orthodoxy which birthed out of a book that popped up on my amazon account and caught my interest ( Antichrist: The fullfillment of globalisation by GM Davis) an orthodox perspective on the topic, I read it twice, best treatment on the topic that I have ever read IMO. This led me to jump on youtube where I discovered Father Josiah Trenheim and was captivated by what he had to say and read his book Rock and Sand. Then I read The Orthodox Church by Timothy Ware. I finally drummed up the courage to attend a local orthodox church and have been twice, all I can say is wow. When they say " Welcome home", it definitely feels that way. Looking forward to seeing where this goes!

[@Alpheccca]

Thanks Aliya, your experience looking into Orthodoxy parallels my own three year period from start to baptism. Amazing journey to peace that passes all understanding!

[@JacquelineRPrice]

Great interview! I saw her original post as well and was like, "Wow! This poor woman is getting slammed!" I'm so glad you guys gave her an opportunity to share her story.

[@nicolelondontv]

Where can I find the post please ?

[@darrenglover5975]

I'm on my journey and very similar to yours. I believe my journey is going to land at Eastern Orthodoxy.

[@zealousideal]

Cool. How’s it going so far General?

[@annb9029]

I think the big reason people leave evangelicals and other Protestant churches deconstructing their faith is lack of history an tradition

[@Heathen_daisy]

Long story short, I was saved out of new age last summer. I, too, was a truther in 2020, which ultimately lead me to Jesus in 2023. The first few months were awful. I was so vulnerable and open and so I listened to many ex new agers on these platforms who became fundamentalists and Calvinists (to the extreme). I was void of joy and happiness. I can’t begin to describe the deep anxiety and fear I held day and night. Any longer and I would have needed some serious mental health intervention. Anyways, I prayed and prayed for truth and discernment daily. God is so great and He answered! I started my deconstruction of Christianity after only 4 months of being saved. I did keep my focus and faith in Jesus and continued to pray. Anyways, each truth God lead me to leads right to the next! I’m now at Eastern Orthodoxy. Since I’m still so new to Christianity, I have so much to learn about the differences of Protestant and EO, let alone EO in itself. I don’t yet consider myself Eastern Orthodox since I really have no idea what the beliefs are, but something “feels” right? And I sort of ran into it (God’s guidance). So I’m slowly learning more and maybe I’ll see if there is a good EO church near me to try.

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

Thanks for your comment. Where are you located? We can connect you with a church near you.

[@orthodox_soul]

Great episode guys. Aliya's journey has definitely been stirring the waters online, so I'm glad to see you guys covering what that process of discovery looks like with someone who's freshly going through it as we speak.

[@tanyabang6686]

I am on my journey through Orthodoxy and my story is so similar. Please continue to share your journey.

[@dannoel2351]

Good Stuff Lu! Thanks Father Jonathan. Thank you for sharing Aliyah. That “what have you got to lose” clip was funny 😂😅

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

Haha thanks fam! 😅

[@shaun.thebaptist]

41:11 “Drowning Baptists” caught the pun 😭😭

[@MaPa-ms7rg]

Feeling like an infant… my friend calls herself a “spiritual zygote” hahah- i can relate- Glory to God. Home.

[@DustyBooks2020]

I’m in this exact same place. I’ll officially become a catechumen after Pascha… I’m hoping my husband will catch up.

[@blockpartyvintage1568]

God bless her

[@genemyersmyers6710]

Most protestants pray with their head we Orthodox pray with our heart.

[@user-gv9my3jy4b]

Well you certainly can't pray with any logical connection to scripture, that's for sure.

[@zealousideal]

Not necessarily. I had the opposite experience. I was a Pentecostal pastor for decades before becoming orthodox. I’d say we prayed MUCH MORE with our hearts there. One thing that’s been hard for me to adjust is to pray rote prayers from a book and more from my mind now when I’m used to praying from my heart before becoming orthodox. I’ve been ortho for nine years now, and I still struggle with many things that’s hard for me to overcome honestly.

[@zealousideal]

@@user-gv9my3jy4b actually ortho prayers are FARRRRRRR more scriptural and basically scripture themselves more so Than any other faith. Try again

[@user-mn3bt4ye6h]

Great Discussion, it is where I am in my faith journey. Been a Protestant for 45 years and only recently been searching and coming to the same conclusions as this young lady. Only wish there was a Orthodox Church locally.

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

Thanks. Where are you located?

[@user-mn3bt4ye6h]

Wales, UK

[@dogmadiplomacy]

Great conversation!

[@timothydeneffe249]

Ironic that the host of the videos name is Luther. Lol. Great video :)

[@frankbilotto]

Aliyah, I don't claim to know more than Father John, but for me, the most important aspect of the Orthodox Church is God's plan of Salvation. I was always troubled by the idea that Christ's crucifixion was a punishment for my sins to save me from the wrath of God. And then I learned it was a late development. The most important thing you should learn right now, if you already haven't is the plan of Salvation. Briefly: 1. God told Adam if he ate of the tree, he would surely die. 2. Adam's sin and separation from God caused us to be in a fallen world, but we're not guilty of Adam's Sin. 3. Christ's incarnation connected us to God. 4. Christ didn't say he came to be sacrificed for our sins, He said I came to give you life. 5. Christ's crucifixion was the ultimate voluntary act of love and humility. 6. Christ had to die to conquer death. and in doing so, conquered sin and Satan. 7. Christ died for our sins because sins cause death. 8. Christ's resurrection is the event that our faith is based on because it conquered sin Satan and death. May the Holy Spirit continue to guide you.

[@OrthodoxKB777]

Good stuff

[@triplea6174]

27:40 luthers face had me laughing out loud 😂 mans contemplating

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

😂😂😂

[@hugoalonsopalaciosibarra4690]

My brother and My family also we are looking into orthodoxy coming from a mexican Baptist background. Sadly, there is no orthodox church in our location in México

[@connorblasing3969]

Reach out to nearest parish/jurisdiction and ask if they can open a mission or have a Priest visit on occasion for services/catechism.

[@justanotherlikeyou]

Nice Trump clip splice👍

[@mayaday8538]

I have a similar thought process and always had the same types of questions and confusions as her. Can relate a lot to her. Still trying to make my decision tho. I'm kinda tough, I literally think on X games mode lol. But we will see. It's also hard for me having to take these steps alone. No friends or family interested. I want to go to the monastery and parish near me but uncomfortable to go alone.

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

I hear you that can be tough. I know it's easier to go with a familiar face. Where are you located?

[@mayaday8538]

@@TheTransfiguredLife definitely...I'm in Pittsburgh, PA

[@SerephinaNadet]

Where on earth is the link to the blog post or what is it titled please very intriguing discussion

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

@@SerephinaNadet I have looked on FB, I'm having a hard time finding it too. To summarize the gist of the post she basically explained why she's leaving protestantism for Orthodoxy and how Orthodox Christianity has gripped her heart. ☦️

[@PXLF1970]

I’m a Pentecostal trying to know about the Orthodox Church because in our version of Christianity we talk about “the church fathers” or “the primitive church”. I think saying the primitive church is kind of sound like orthodoxy to me. So I want to educate myself on orthodoxy.

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

Glad you're here! Let us know how we can help.

[@PXLF1970]

I hear about the early fathers in Protestantism. The operating word being about. There are no clases of what they wrote but thru expensive seminars/universities. I don’t know if they give the whole information there. I would love to read their literature and anything pertinent to the Christian faith that non orthodox aren’t exposed to. Anything that you would recommend?

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

@@PXLF1970 Yes, read the Apostolic Father's. Particularly St.Ignatius of Antioch. He was a disciple of the Apostle John. Reading Ignatius will give you an understanding of what Christians believed and practiced in the 2nd century.

[@PXLF1970]

@@TheTransfiguredLife Thank you.

[@TheRadChadDad]

☦️☦️☦️

[@SaltShack]

Multiple services, competing soteriology, malleable ritual to suit differing preferences all sound to me like Roman Catholicism with Latin Mass, Novus Ordo and Eastern Right. If you believe everything do you really believe anything? I’ve often been critical of Protestantism and especially American Evangelicalism for turning Christianity into a “bumper sticker” religion. Watching this video it might be worse by making it a restaurant menu pick and choose religion. As an Orthodox convert being raised Mormon and having gone to Catholic school I’ve only now after nearly 35 years feel worthy to read the Bible outside of Church and that’s still in an Orthodox Study group attended by our Priest. My take on Scripture is that it’s was compiled kind of like an instruction manual to be used by professionals and not individuals at their Kitchen table. That’s my own feeling and haven’t ever been told that by any Priest or parishioner or family member, but one thing that I always felt very comfortable with is “approaching with faith love and fear” along with welcoming the guidance of the Church Fathers and their One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

[@jasonmoore2447]

Hello! Regarding your feeling that Scripture is for a professional. Jesus did not chose the wise, He chose the foolish things of the world to confound the wise (1 Cor. 1). He also said, “Truly I say to you, unless you change and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matt 18:3). Surely we need to be daily renewed in the spirit of our minds, that we may become simple and humble, as little children, and willing to be the least of all. Stick with unworthy, rather than worthy -we will never be worthy. The main question to ask is, "Am I in Christ who has entered into a "Greater Tabernacle" (not just the symbol we've had on earth), once for all time -one sacrifice -full atonement (Hebrews 9:11-14)?" If you are, you have been accepted and "In Him and through faith in Him we may enter God's presence with boldness and confidence" (Eph 3:12). The Bereans were residents of the city of Berea in Macedonia. Paul and Silas preached to them during Paul’s second missionary journey. Unlike the unbelieving Thessalonian Jews, the Bereans were credited by Paul with belief because they "searched the Scriptures daily." He commended them for being "more noble-minded" for "they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so" (Acts 17:11). They weren't commended for going to Peter to see if what Paul said was true, but commended for themselves searching the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul said was true.

[@SaltShack]

@@jasonmoore2447 Thank you for your well thought out extensive reply. It does however increase my hesitancy to rely on myself for wisdom and understanding of Scripture because the verses you have chosen are contradictory. Are we to act as unworthy children or with the presumption that we can Challenge or confirm the teachings of the Apostles with our own noble minded understanding of Scripture. This of course is compounded when you throw in the New Testament that neither Paul Silas or the Bereans had access to. New Testament Scripture also states we should seek salvation with fear and trembling. Boldness and confidence, fear and trembling, these in isolation relate no truth unless your willing to accept one and discard the other. Biblical Truth is only available to those who understand the complete, historic and complex context available only to those who lived it for centuries. Attempting to recreate all that is impossible. The quandary is that every heresy ever put forward has been accompanied by Bible quotes and that simple fact makes navigating them far more intricate and in fact potentially dangerous. Regardless their understanding is at best incomplete without the framework defined in Scripture for confronting controversy inside or outside Scripture and that’s enduring consensus well defined when James and the Apostles confronted the teaching that you had to become Jewish before becoming Christian.

[@jasonmoore2447]

@@SaltShack Consider if your starting point is not contradictory to the apostles. You said, "Are we to act as unworthy children or with the presumption that we can Challenge or confirm the teachings of the Apostles with our own noble minded understanding of Scripture." The apostle Paul said to do this, therefore we're in disobedeience when we don't obey it. He's not commending them for being noble-minded (in and of themselves), it was by virtue of them "searching the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so." How are you going to obey that command?

[@jasonmoore2447]

They absolutely had Scripture. They had the Septuigent (the OT in Greek), and the scrolls (the O.T.) and the parchments (we now know from the over 5,500 manuscripts that the NT was written on parchments and bound in codexes). The early Christians bound books. The apostles wrote their epistles and books while alive. Chrisitans didn't use scrolls, so when we see scrolls mentioned, its the O.T. and when Paul mentions parchments, it's probably the 4 gospels and the epistles (letters). "When you come bring...the scrolls, especially the parchments." (2 Tim 4:13). As early as the year AD35 the church would begin circulating testimonies and letters that we now find in the canon, starting with the stoning of Stephen and Paul's conversion. Peter called Paul's words/teaching Scripture in 2 Peter 3:16. Apollos was found by Aquila, and his wife Priscilla (believers) "powerfully refuting the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ" (Acts 18:28). Priscilla and Aquila (who were not ordained, just averages folks) took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately (Acts 18:26).They had the Scriptures. Peter's letters were to the dispersed Pilgrims (scattered), there is no interposition of a priest. @@SaltShack

[@jasonmoore2447]

@@SaltShack It's a legitimate concern having come out of a cult situation. I did too, former JW. They used a lot of Scripture and even changed and excluded scripture in their "translation" to suit their false claims. And actually, going to a church authority or the founders of the organization didn't help with discovering the truth. We have very scant fragmants of the original writings of the church fathers. We have an overwhelming 5,500+ manuscripts of Scripture, and how di the Councils refute error? Since all the church fathers, even the ones who knew the apostles, differ in so many areas, and since those church fathers point us back to the Scriptures to examine whether what they say is true, Scripture is the bar, the standard by which we are to judge. "For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart (Hebrews 4:12) and claims, itself, to have the answers we need regarding everything pertaining to life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3) -everything we need to live a life that is pleasing to God. It is unlike anything else ever written. Scripture is unique. No person, not even the apostles on which the twelve foundation stones of the New Jeruselum have their names written can discern the thoughts and intentions fo the heart.

[@BarbaPamino]

Δοξα τω θεω

[@genemyersmyers6710]

You know what they say about those who shoot from the hip.

[@christyrodarte1158]

I was a member of GCOM for 5 years, worked at TMC for 7 years, and my husband was a deacon in a Federal Vision church in LA. My Christian life has been 🫨🤒😵‍💫. I understand your experience more than you know! I am healing from all this since finding Orthodoxy. Wish we could grab coffee sometime to swap stories! 😂

[@radianttrails939]

I cant find this post anywhere and searching anything related to her shows socials that havent been updated for a few years... can someone share this post?

[@genemyersmyers6710]

Some reformed folks are asking why not baptise baby's.

[@ashleighmiller4101]

Is there a way we can see the post?

[@toiletbowlearth]

❤❤❤☦️🔥🕊️👏

[@tomy8339]

In the Bible there is a distinction of the word "father". There is a parental father, such as honour your mother and father. And there is a spiritual father. Christ clearly said do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one father who is in heaven. Making a clear distinction from a parental father who he acknowledged as legitimate, which the old testament verifies. And yet this woman has no problem going to a church with this flagrant violation of Christ's command, even speaking on a group chat to a man with the title Father Jonathon, a man who is not her parental father and is calling a spiritual father. You heard Luther call Jonathon "father" during this group chat. In the Bible, leaders that are over you are called elders, bishops and pastors. Never the term father Aliya even talks about the ornate Orthodox church buildings, claiming some theology to the beauty of God. None of that is in the new testament. Coming to Christ and living a transformed life is the beauty of God. Christ clearly said he seeks those who worship in spirit and in truth. Christ does not care for ornate buildings and his beauty is reflected in us, for we are the temple of the holy spirit. I'm sorry Aliya, but you are in error and need to study the scriptures further.

[@EpistemicAnthony]

Sorry, that's not what the scriptures say. 1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel." Your problem is with Paul, not Aliya.

[@tomy8339]

@@EpistemicAnthony Absolute rubbish. Paul is saying he is like a father to his churches. Not that he is called a father. Big difference. What Paul says does not contradict Christ. And you know it. Jesus was clear. No one of to be called father. What part of that don't you understand? Don't try and rewrite the scriptures to suit your own denomination. Scripture is clear, do not add to God's word and do not take way. You are doing both as you twist scripture, adding to the term father and taking away from God the only father. Being called father and being like a father, as you quoted, as I said before, are radically different. But why do I think you know that?

[@EpistemicAnthony]

@@tomy8339 And yet, Paul refers to himself as their father in the gospel. Thus, your argument is refuted. We refer to our spiritual fathers in the same way Paul refers to himself as the father of the Corinthians. If your argument is correct, then Paul was wrong to refer to himself as their father in the gospel. He wrote 1 Corinthians to people, and to those people, he says he is their father in the gospel.

[@tomy8339]

@@EpistemicAnthony And once again you don't understand. Paul is not being called father. He is simply saying he is being LIKE a father to his congregants. Big difference. And Paul explains clearly what he means when says he is like a father. He laments that there are plenty of teachers and instructors but few fathers, that is, people who live the Christian faith. Paul sets himself as an example as a father figure, to imitate his life as he imitates Christ. Stop playing these word games and twisting scripture. You managed to find one verse where Paul relates himself to a father figure and somehow that nullifies Christ's command not to call anyone on earth your (spiritual) father. Paul is just saying he's a father figure to others as an example to follow. Nice try buddy. Please stop with your twisting and desperate attempts to justify what is a violation of Christ's command.

[@EpistemicAnthony]

@tomy8339 that's funny, I don't see the word "like" in the verse at all. In fact, in other translations it uses the word "begotten." "But you have one father, for I have begotten you through the gospel." Paul is saying he became their father through the gospel. We believe this means "spiritual" father, and that is what we call pur priests as well, for they are our spiritual fathers through the gospel.

[@johnking5928]

Orthodox would be an obvious choice... if they didn't insist that we have to pray to Mary, venerate icons, pray to saints, etc. There is room for tradition, but if tradition contradicts scripture, then we are at a conundrum. The arguments for praying to Mary and praying to those who have died are so indirect. I have heard Orthodox say that because Hebrews says, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses", but this is a figurative statement he is making. However, the Orthodox church seems to often build their stranger doctrines off of overly literal misinterpretations of particular verses and then building a dogma around those overly literal interpretations. There are many things I like about the Orthodox church, but I can't assent to these extra-biblical ideas just because the Orthodox say, 'well thats what the tradition believes'.

[@zoejay]

Holy Theotokos is in the Holy Communion. As through her Christ become human. Through her flesh... She is the ladder who connects us to God. Her obedience gave us Christ. Glory to God in All Things. Υπεραγια Θεοτοκε Σώσον Εμάς. Δόξα σόι Ο Θεός ☦️☦️☦️

[@johnking5928]

@@zoejay I can see where you are coming from. The problem for me is that you are taking things we know (i.e. Mary was the mother of Jesus) and adding additional 'spirituality' around it. Saying that those things are true is one thing, but then saying also, now since that is true, we also have to believe that we should pray to her (which is not scriptural), pray through her (which is not scriptural), that she is the queen of heaven (which is not scriptural), I've even heard Orthodox say things like, 'you know in genesis, when the spirit of God was hovering above the waters... Mary was the waters'. You also say we have to believe that Mary was sinless (no scripture evidence for that), Mary was a virgin for ever (no scripture evidence of that) even though it says Jesus had half brothers (but we are told have to believe that it didn't REALLY mean brother, it meant cousins or something else.. just so that the Orthodox tradition is supported). We are told we have to believe that Mary was 'assumed' (no scripture evidence of that). Basically, all of these beliefs have no scriptural foundation, which means that none of the apostles taught these things directly. There isn't evidence of these beliefs until 150 to 200 years later (even later for some doctrines). I believe the apostles. But I can't blindly believe the people who lived hundreds of years after the apostles given the fact that people are fallible and traditions which are not specifically ordained by God an creep into men's traditions and become orthodoxy. There are so many examples of this in which there have been debates back and forth and there was beliefs that were anathema only to be later adopted as orthodoxy. It is simply human nature. God is the only one who is unchanging. However, people always inject their own perspectives onto things and institutions always have a tendency to seek to compel people to agree with them. I say this as someone who would truly like to be able to get on board with Orthodox Christianity, but I am not convinced that many of the more controversial beliefs are indeed ordained by God.

[@EpistemicAnthony]

"Orthodoxy would be the obvious choice... if they didn't do things that I don't like!"

[@johnking5928]

@@EpistemicAnthony Whoa. Nice reductive zinger. Actually I quite thoroughly laid out my argument and the reasoning behind them. You can delude yourself that 'veneration' is not really worship, and that we don't really pray to Mary. If your tradition works for you, then I'm glad for you. My conscience before the Lord Jesus Christ will not permit me to betray those convictions which I hold because of His Word. And for that reason, I will not venerate icons, I will not pray to a person (any person), nor through any person, I will not pray through items of wood or any other graven image, I will not call a religious leader 'father' and kiss his hand, I will not do any of these things merely because of the traditions of men. If the Holy Spirit leads me that these contradictions to the written word (I know you will argue this point, but I've heard those arguments, and none of them has been enough to move my conscience in the matter before the Lord), then I will gladly participate in these actions, but until such a time, I will not follow the traditions of men.

[@EpistemicAnthony]

@johnking5928 your argument is "they say this verse is literal, but it's actually figurative!" Okay, and... says who? You? We think the verse is literal, and Christians since the earliest times have taken it as literal. What makes you so credible?

[@redgracemedia118]

Remarkable 😢, one hour of conversation and virtually nothing was said in terms of orthodox beliefs in contrast to reform theology perhaps that was not the point of the conversation. However, I think, anytime that you are going to discuss the reasons for abandoning the Reformed faith you should articulate precisely where your newfound theology is superior in any way. Sadly, I have extensive experience in folks of apostatizing to the orthodox position, many of whom now have nothing to do with religion at all. These were disenchanted evangelicals, semi Calvinist, and partial liberals who thought they were embracing something ancient until finally, they gagged on dead orthodoxy and now their status on social media is agnostic or atheist or worse, etc. I would also tell the “father” and the other gentleman not to get too comfortable in welcoming this young lady to their religion, because she has an obvious track record of being tossed to and fro. Sadly, I have seen this pattern more times than I care to count.

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

Thanks for your comment. Her goal wasn't to explain why one theology is more "superior" than the other. She was sharing her journey plus here she mentions what she found problematic like protestant ecclesiology, Sola Scriptura & etc. About a week from today (Sept 22nd), we will have the exact video for you on that topic. It will deal with some key errors in Reformed Theology in a respectful way! I would love to get your thoughts to see if the Reformed tradition can reconcile some of those concerns from the Orthodox perspective. Thanks & God bless! ☦️

[@OlympicLeprechaun]

It is impossible to "apostasize" into Orthodoxy.

[@Beta-XYZ]

Knowing God intellectually is good but not necessarily, for 2 thousand years people are praying to God no need for scholarships. To be a theologian is to be a person of prayer,not any prayer but unceasing prayer all fathers of the church possess the unceasing prayer as today many monks and nuns. People that rely an high education in theology if they don’t have the phronema of the Church they loose.

[@nicodemuseam]

"Gagged on dead orthodoxy;" Rich. The fact is, and I'm sure you would agree, that God demands something from us; Specifically, our repentance. Im in no position to judge the state of those that fall away from the Orthodox Church, but God Himself says that He will prune from the Church those who reject the purpose of His calling. John 15. Those who do not abide in Me, He says, will be cast out. Eph 2: 8-10 spells this out; We are regenerated by grace through faith in Jesus Christ *for* good works. If we reject this calling, to "take up our Cross and follow Him;" If we "turn back our hand from the plow," the Lord says, we are not fit for the Kingdom of God. Those who seek Truth will find Him, that is, Jesus Christ. The Church of God, the Body of Christ, never apostasized, according to His promise, "the gates of Hell will not prevail against it." The Orthodox Church has been baptizing all nations in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, for almost 2,000 years since Pentecost.

[@OlympicLeprechaun]

@@nicodemuseam Amen my brother. God bless.

[@christopherwatkins7547]

What did she post?

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

She posted why she was leaving the protestant faith for Ancient Orthodox Christianity and she eloquently lists her reasons which are similar to what she explains in this episode.

[@Theoretically-ko6lr]

@@TheTransfiguredLifewhere can we find this post? Lots of us here are looking or asking for it. Thanks!

[@kaylacarter6817]

Does she have social media?

[@TheTransfiguredLife]

She does but I'm not sure where the post is. I went looking for it a while back

[@gabrielgabriel5177]

I think free churches are more east than orthodox. Orthodox are basicly western. Roman emperioum church. Free churches are asian mostly and global also

[@JPHolling]

I grew up Lutheran, went to all sorts of different protestant churches (Baptist, non denom, Pentecostal) . Reformed theology and pre destination teachings and the non respect for child baptism has me looking into Orthodoxy. Although I am still leaning towards Lutheranism. Orthodoxys understanding of Mary and praying to saints makes me uneasy. Side note this girl found a terrible Lutheran church by the sound of it

[@EpistemicAnthony]

If I asked you to pray for me, would you find that wrong?

[@JPHolling]

@@EpistemicAnthony asking someone else to pray for you and asking a saint that has passed is not the same. 1) we don't know if saints can hear our prayers 2) if God answers your prayers it will strengthen the faith of everyone involved in the prayer 3) the Bible encourages us to pray in groups. Where 2 or 3 are gathered. Does not say anything about those who have passed Just not much historical evidence in the first or second century to support it

[@EpistemicAnthony]

@@JPHolling We have plenty of examples of saints in scripture that are aware of things happening on Earth. We also have Revelation showing the saints in heaven delivering prayers to God.

[@JPHolling]

@@EpistemicAnthony interesting point. I suppose it still doesn't bridge the gap of praying to Jesus directly

[@jasonmoore2447]

Is a blaspheming father a clue that EO might be the wrong direction?

[@czuw2967]

Detailing the blasphemy might be helpful.

[@sihtnaelkk2187]

Of course not. Just means the father went astray. Pray for him but this exists in every church.

[@jasonmoore2447]

@@sihtnaelkk2187 Sin exists for sure, but that would disqualify a pastor . Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. It should hurt his own ears to hear that come out of his mouth. It didn't prick his conscience (Eph 4:29).

[@jasonmoore2447]

@@czuw2967 Using the God's name in a worthless or vain way.

[@sihtnaelkk2187]

@@jasonmoore2447 I understand your concern. But your original comment was if this behavior would discredit orthodoxy. The answer is it doesn't. Now for that particular priest, I don't know if false teacher is a fair criticism but you can always pray for him and / or even ask a saint to do the same.

[@paulsmallwood1484]

Protestant response. Seeking a relationship with Jesus while disparaging the importance of the church is not taught by Classical Protestantism neither does it teach decisional theology where you invite Jesus into your heart nor does it teach that there are born again Christians and then there are Christians who are not born again, neither does it eschew tradition as somehow a bad thing or unbiblical. Nor does it teach that Christianity is just an academic pursuit. Nor does classical Protestantism ever teach you that a church member must be “winging it” or try to figure it out on your own. Nor does it teach that worship is about meeting the needs of the individual. Eastern Orthodoxy is extremely sectarian and makes the false claim that it and it alone is the true church of Christ while all other Christians are outside of Christ’s church and are in fact are in false churches. This young woman is throwing out anti-Protestant caricatures particularly on the charge of no authority in Protestantism or no doctrinal standards and her misunderstanding of Sola Scriptura is striking. Eastern Orthodoxy teaches that it and it alone posses the fullness of faith while all other Christians are lacking and deficient. This is crass sectarianism.

[@Fr.JonathanIvanoff]

But exactly WHO teaches "classical Protestantism" any more? The 3 "classic" protestant Reformers - Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli - all believed in and taught the Perpetual Ever-Virginity of Mary, but NO.BOD.Y teaches that anymore in any of protestant churches nowadays. Same can be said for so many other doctrines and dogmas. But you did say, "Eastern Orthodoxy teaches that it and it alone posses the fullness of faith while all other Christians are lacking and deficient" and on THIS we can surely agree. Yes, we do teach that, because Truth is indeed absolute, and there can't be multiple competing "truths" that teach and clearly mean different things. Infant baptism? Real Presence? Paedo-communion? Actual sacraments with Grace? The list goes on and on, and we know and can clearly show that what we teach is the same as what was taught in the Early Church, so, yes, we DO believe we alone possess the fullness of the ancient Apostolic Faith.

[@paulsmallwood1484]

@@Fr.JonathanIvanoff Please stick to what you know and don’t presume to lecture me on Protestantism. Your arrogance is stunning. I am grateful I live in a country that supports freedom of religion unlike certain (not all) predominantly Eastern Orthodox countries that persecute their minority Protestant community and no doubt would do it in the U.S. if they had the power to do so.

[@nicodemuseam]

The sectarians are those from within and without the Church that challenege the authority of the God-Ordained Episcopate to rule as God commanded them to do, including *binding the conscience of the faithful.* You have no more authority to challenge Nicea I and the following Ecumenical Councils than you do to re-write the Scriptures. You are without standing, refusing to submit to "sound teaching," and for the sake of what? Some theological construct that didnt exist until the Reformers? The Body of Christ has been "baptizing the nations" for 2,000 years. There is no other Church of God, than that which is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic, having the right faith and Apostolic succession , that is, the continuing succession of the Tradition of the Holy Spirit, from then until now.

[@zealousideal]

Wowwww…. Great response Fr. Total drop the Mike moment there. 🫳🎤 🫡

[@Theoretically-ko6lr]

Orthodoxy is the one and true church. The one and only church that God established and promised to preserve until the end of times. This church has apostolic succession and thus canonized the Bible that every Christian is reading today. Remember that the doors are always open. Home is waiting for you too ❤

[@frederickanderson1860]

In christ their is neither Greek or jew bond or free. You just miss the purpose of the true body of christ

[@nicodemuseam]

And what is that, Frederick? Is it not to save souls? Is Christ divided? Eastern Orthodox Christians believe that the Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic, according to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, which was compiled from the Scriptures and affirmed by every Ecumenical Council.

[@frederickanderson1860]

@@nicodemuseam Jesus came for those whom his father had foreordained to eternal life. Gospel of John chapter 10 v 25-30, the lie of Peter having the keys to Salvation is false teachings, compare revelation of John chapter 3 v 7.

[@nicodemuseam]

@@frederickanderson1860 As I understand it, all of the Apostles were granted "the keys," the authority to "bind and loose." Under the authority of Jesus, the Apostles and their successors can forgive sins.

[@frederickanderson1860]

@@nicodemuseam Jesus he had authority from his father read gospel of John chapter 10 : 25 - 30. So if Jesus said it was not his authority alone then Peter again has no authority except from God himself. Revelation chapter 3 v 7, makes that clear. This is about eternal life. Peter on day of Pentecost preached Jesus as the son of David and his ressurected from the dead, repent and be baptized , apostle Paul said water baptism was about the death buried and ressurection of Jesus., not just about him hanging on a cross forever as the crucifixes that are displayed in many churches and homes.

[@know_not_wickedness]

Lmao

[@Theoretically-ko6lr]

Orthodoxy is the one and true church. The one and only church God established and promised to preserve until the end of times. Glory to God ❤