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@yeoberry 20 сағат бұрын
Biola is not an excellent academic institution. Basically, Garten has no real credentials.
@yeoberry 20 сағат бұрын
There is no case for early image veneration. Garten is a fraud.
@jdsmith2k7 Күн бұрын
Sadly, the papal system is still a legalistic mess. I'm thankful to be Orthodox.
@mariebo7491 Күн бұрын
25:33 I still hear this kind putting the fear of God in people type teaching/preaching or the focus of “God’s wrath” in some church. Mainly reformed Baptist where Calvinism is equated to the gospel and it’s all about His wrath and His glory. It’s really twisted.
@Orthodixi 6 сағат бұрын
@@mariebo7491 “sinners in the hands of an angry god” yep
@MatthewMetanoia Күн бұрын
Protestants and everyone else are saved by grace though faith. Ex-Protestants seem to have a bone to pick with faith and Orthodoxy provides that outlet.
@Danielbannie 2 күн бұрын
💪
@untoages 2 күн бұрын
This is a good distinction to point out!
@TheTransfiguredLife Күн бұрын
My brother! 🤝
@petergomez5174 2 күн бұрын
It’s unfortunate when a former Protestant doesn’t know Protestant doctrines. Theosis or Christification is taught by the Lutherans. We are divine partakers with Christ.
@LaphroaigFan 2 күн бұрын
Have you ever had a confessional Lutheran on your channel? From what i understand they dont follow everything the classic Luther teachings. They were named Lutherans as a pejorative and they just kept the name. So while they claim Sola fide they mean it differently than say an evangelical or something who think you just have to assent to faith. Confessional Lutherans believe in works I'm pretty sure.
@k9leadstheway531 2 күн бұрын
Is their anything assurance of salvation within orthodoxy? Like, i know the doctrine of eternal security isn't held too, but is their assurance in any sense?
@klw272 Күн бұрын
I’m not a representative of the Orthodox Church, so take this comment with a grain of salt. In orthodoxy, you are in a relationship with Jesus Christ and his church. Like any relationship, both parties need to show they love one another. God shows us he loves us in an infinite amount but it is up to us to show we love Him. We do this through faithfulness/loyalty to God. In a marriage, we have assurance that the person we love wouldn’t just leave us because we know them. We know Christ through prayer, the church community, and cooperation with the Holy Spirit to generate a new heart within us with the law of God written on it. We are saved from sin, death, and demonic influence through our relationship with Christ. If we love God with all our heart, mind, and strength we maintain that relationship by keeping his commandments and truly repenting of our sins. I have never been a Protestant, but I try to understand their perspective on the matter. It is completely foreign to me so it is difficult but I can try articulate what I can. The Protestant perspective is not relational. You are made righteous because Jesus paid the penalty of death for your sins. You are covered with His righteousness, that is alien to you. The reason for this is because any sin that you have (that I guess can’t be forgiven or there is still punishment that God needs to enact) will not make you righteous before God’s judgement. Protestant justification, to me, is their salvation. Sanctification is just an added bonus that happens after you’re justified. This justification is not justice but it does produce assurance that God the Father will judge you as righteous as Christ.
@k9leadstheway531 Күн бұрын
Protestants utilize legal language. So justification for us is a declaration by God that we are innocent, clothed in the rightousness of christ by faith. Sanctification is done by the Holy Spirit after we are justified. From my understanding justification and sanctification are deeply intertwined within orthodoxy and they call it theosis. My question is, because the goal for the orthodox christian is to he divine in the sense we partake of the virtues or energy's of God not his essence that's when we are saved. But I've heard of doctrines like the toll houses and if one could not complete theosis in this life then what? If we were to die what happens? If we fail to cooperate FULLY with God and we die what happens?
@Orthodixi Күн бұрын
@@klw272a Christian is saved by Grace thru faith according to the Orthodox Church. The difference is, we don’t presume anything. We have free will to turn our back on God if we choose not to follow Him. It is our choice at any time to quit being a Christian. Baptist believe once you say the sinners prayer, get baptized and choose to live like hell, you have your “fire insurance.” Orthodox don’t believe one and done salvation.
@klw272 Күн бұрын
@@k9leadstheway531 what I tried to convey, without using loaded theological terms, is that theosis is becoming like God through intimate communion (relationship) with Him. We have assurance of salvation (from sin, death, and demonic influence) through our relationship with God. I could be wrong though
@klw272 Күн бұрын
@@Orthodixi I agree. I tried to explain saved by grace through faith without those words because I think those mean different things to Protestants. Did I state anything incorrectly?
@TheMhouk2 2 күн бұрын
this was gold tier content luther, a great guest and questions!
@TheTransfiguredLife Күн бұрын
Thanks fam! 🤝
@ProtestantismLeftBehind 2 күн бұрын
Excellent discussion! I’m a former Protestant Evangelical, and before I came to a faith in Christ at age 25, two years earlier I read 3/4 of the Bible, and felt inadequate, as if there was a bar to high that I couldn’t reach. Who would date me if I didn’t have sex outside of marriage (I thought)? I put the Bible down never to pick it up until I came to faith in Christ. There was a remorse for my sin and then a sense of freedom gained when I expressed faith. My life turned around somewhat. But, after 25 years as a Protestant, God moved me toward the Church Fathers, and then into the Orthodox Church finding home. I describe it this way now, as a Protestant I heard about Christ and embraced the content of the message, yet as an Orthodox Christian it’s as if I’m meeting with the risen Christ in the Orthodox Church.
@sundaybest27 3 күн бұрын
Thank you, Father, Daniel and Luther!
@cw4091 3 күн бұрын
When I was Protestant, I didn’t understand the nature of “grace.”
@Theoretically-ko6lr 3 күн бұрын
Glory to God ❤
@melissawade7212 3 күн бұрын
This has been my big struggle for this year's Advent fast, so this video was so welcomed and helpful for me. And it's good to know that I'm not the only Orthodox person who struggles with distraction from social media.
@TheTransfiguredLife 3 күн бұрын
You are not alone, my friend. It's a battle! I have incorporated many new habits since this episode, and yet it's still difficult! ☦
@mariaa5653 3 күн бұрын
Money All Church's same .Preachers gott rich and We can't listen anymore. Sorry.
@sleepingtube 3 күн бұрын
I'm a paramedic and I make a lot more than my priest. I know some priests that don't get a paycheck from the Church at all, they have a secular job in addition to their duties
@johnnyd2383 2 күн бұрын
You are speaking from the perspective of someone who attended private business(es) that owners falsely call "church".
@gabrielgabriel5177 3 күн бұрын
There is no theosis in real orthodoxy: miyaphysitism
@Observer-g6m 3 күн бұрын
Theosis indicated in 2 Peter To those who have [a]obtained like[b] precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the [c]corruption that is in the world through lust.
@DsBoyan 3 күн бұрын
This intro is a bit weird, Wesleyans do have a similar theology to theosis. It’s not foreign to Protestants.
@NavelOrangeGazer 3 күн бұрын
The problem is in America wesleyan spirituality is the vast minority in American protestant expressions as most of it is either some form of baptist or calvinist theology that has slowly morphed into easy believism especially in baptist-lite nondenom megachurch circles which accounts for the vast majority.
@eikon7001 3 күн бұрын
Having some theory that resembles it is meaningless.
@DsBoyan 2 күн бұрын
@@eikon7001 Dude, Wesley talks about holiness or sanctification of a person in this life, as something separate to becoming a christian and getting baptised, but something that can be achieved in this life and the outcome of being sanctified is to be made perfect like Christ. Isn't this exactly theosis?
@jnorm888 2 күн бұрын
@@DsBoyan, our understanding isn't limited to sanctification. There are also other aspects as well. Like glorification starting in the here and now. For we partake in God's Glory just like Moses on the mountain while in God's presence. And like the body of Jesus on Mount Tabor when His body was Transfigured. His resurrected body was a fully Transfigured body! Transfigured by Glory! That same Glory comes to us when we're united to the Risen Christ!
@DsBoyan Күн бұрын
@@jnorm888 This sounds cool, but I don't know - I have not seen a person in a glorified body yet.
@Demetra719 3 күн бұрын
Hey guys. Would you be willing to follow up with this pastor? He seems to have disappeared from the Zootown Church KZbin feed, replaced with a litany of other ministers. I’m just wondering what happened to him and his venture to bring some of the early church into his Evangelical congregation…
@TheTransfiguredLife 3 күн бұрын
Yes, we are open to it. He resigned and is now a Catechumen in the Orthodox Church. ☦
@Demetra719 3 күн бұрын
@ 🎉👌🎉 How wonderful!! Praise God. Thanks for the reply. Adding him to my prayer list!
@stevobear4647 3 күн бұрын
Living under the terrifying law is why my wife and I became so disillusioned in college and stopped going to any church for a year. Then my brother-in-law took us to an Orthodox Church, and we began a journey that took a few years but entered the Orthodox Church in 1998.
@TheTransfiguredLife 3 күн бұрын
Glory to God! What protestant tradition were you a part of?
@nicolehendrix5632 3 күн бұрын
I was raised non-denominational but that underlying fear was still there in the theology I was around as a kid. Left Behind/rapture theology I think really made it stick as well.
@dolphinitely_bro3944 3 күн бұрын
As someone one month into my EO catechism, I have never been more fervent for all things Christ centered. Glory to God for bringing me to swallow my pride and research church history. Christ is risen and all Glory to Triune God
@zachmcconnell2042 2 күн бұрын
It’s only the beginning too man, keep diving and you’ll just keep seeing more and more, that the grace, the spirituality, the wisdom and the practical way of life is so far beyond what Protestantism could ever give, may God bless you on your journey into his Church
@dolphinitely_bro3944 2 күн бұрын
@ same to you as well ☦️ Im forever grateful for how merciful God has been to me
@odisho100 2 күн бұрын
Glory God for that brother, my wife, my 1 year old daughter and I are catechumens ourselves at a Greek Orthodox Monestary coming from a reformed Calvinist background and we thank God for softening our hard hearts and have been so blessed by Christs church. You can’t explain it in words 🙏🏻☦️
@Orthodixi 6 сағат бұрын
@@dolphinitely_bro3944 I still remember thinking “WHAT!” Now, if I attend church with family (non orthodox), I’m so disappointed. It’s like someone giving you a sip of water when you are really thirsty and that sip isn’t cutting it
@dolphinitely_bro3944 23 минут бұрын
@ yes! Give me the waterhose!
@fabbeyonddadancer 3 күн бұрын
Need leading Protestant apologetics to analysis this , wonder what they would say
@michaelalexander3001 3 күн бұрын
What he said at 27:50 about "coffee and good times" reminded me of when I was 12 years old at a megachurch scarfing down no less than 5 donuts every Sunday after service. Some Sundays it was 8. Lord have mercy.
@michaelalexander3001 3 күн бұрын
Update: The church eliminated their after-service donuts not long after we joined the church. Maybe I helped?
@Orthodixi 6 сағат бұрын
@@michaelalexander3001 you were a growing boy
@justina6045 3 күн бұрын
Peter didn’t want to leave either during the Transfiguration, but Christ led them back down the mountain and eventually the Great Commision to bring the Kingdom of God to earth.
@justina6045 3 күн бұрын
The loss of the awe of God in todays culture has lent itself to that as well
@IC_XC_NIKA 3 күн бұрын
Lord have mercy
@TheTransfiguredLife 3 күн бұрын
Thanks for your thoughts. Are you an Orthodox Christian or an inquirer?
@justina6045 3 күн бұрын
@ Protty. My friend is OE and I appreciate learning about church history
@TheTransfiguredLife 3 күн бұрын
@@justina6045 Amen, glory to God for your love of church history. Continue having healthy conversations with your EO friend. Keep digging my brother. ☦
@JWM5791 2 күн бұрын
Amen. I'm currently keeping my brother's church while he's out. It is absolutely ridiculous how irreverent and self focused things have become. Not to mention the overgrown children having power struggles to control the church. I left organized religion 8 years ago, and had no intention of going back. I discovered Orthodoxy a couple of years ago, and I've been working through everything. As soon as I can give his church back I have every intention of joining the Orthodox Church.
@frmichael1013 3 күн бұрын
Yes! "If X, then why not Y??"
@ryanbeaver6080 3 күн бұрын
Would love to see you guys bring on a Reformed Christian leader in the church such as Pastor Doug Wilson to discuss this topic.
@TheTransfiguredLife 3 күн бұрын
That would be fantastic. We should email him. Many Protestant pastors have resisted public dialogue. We only know of one Protestant apologist who has consistently been open to Orthodox-Protestant dialogue.
@Gstrugglin 3 күн бұрын
Chuck Swindoll or Chuck Smith too
@Submission2Orthodoxy 3 күн бұрын
Get Doug Wilson and Jay Dyer.
@frmichael1013 3 күн бұрын
German dirt-farmer priest here
@TheTransfiguredLife 3 күн бұрын
Greetings Father! ☦
@Fr.JonathanIvanoff 3 күн бұрын
Oh! A former German Lutheran dirt-farmer, I think I know such a guy!
@wilder11 4 күн бұрын
Rachel and Andrew Wilson played no small part in my conversion to Orthodoxy. Though most of their content is political, and not apologetic, the few morsels of theological wisdom they DID have and their force of argumentation really began to push me closer to the faith. I could hear the truth in their words. Just like with Jordan Peterson's work, I like to say "they put into words things I believed, but could never properly articulate." I was raised an atheist. But the better part of the last decade I began to take religion more seriously. But I could never connect with Protestant sects or the Roman Catholics because of their obvious corruptions and contradictions. Once I began to learn more about Orthodoxy, I knew in my heart it was the true faith. Just like Rachel, the more I learned, the more I felt satisfied with the answers. So much of what I understood about Christianity ONLY applied to Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. It didn't account for, nor could it dismiss the doctrines of Orthodoxy. Of course there are always more questions, but for the first time in my life I feel confident in where I'm going. Even if it is difficult. Thank God for both of them, and I appreciate the interview you guys. Many years.
@christianorthodoxy4769 4 күн бұрын
I'm ready to watch this' this will be very interesting.
@untoages 4 күн бұрын
This was a very interesting discussion. Thanks for inviting Jared on! God-willing, there will be more conversations he will have with Orthodox Christians in the future.
@TheTransfiguredLife 4 күн бұрын
Thanks Bailey! ☦
@TheTransfiguredLife 4 күн бұрын
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@HistoryDwarf 5 күн бұрын
Ortlund doesn’t really make a case for Protestantism, he rather offers claims and a Protestant perspective. He assumes sola scriptura and never actually proves it or attempts to prove it.
@charlesadair73 5 күн бұрын
Brother, I’m glad you found orthodoxy ….and now understand repentance, because from what you’re saying you weren’t part of a very good church….a good church will teach the Gospel and repentance …..blessings on your journey!
@charlesadair73 5 күн бұрын
So are you saying Christ didn’t die for our sins??
@arosalesmusic 5 күн бұрын
Too bad Sam Shamoun went the Catholic route.
@GaryfaliaLaz 6 күн бұрын
I am an Orthodox woman from Greece, and i truly can't understand why they characterize the Orthodox church as masculine. I was born and raised in this church, and i can't see any difference in the way the church treats men amd women. The only thing i can see is the fact that women can't become priests. But that is the only thing i can think about. It is true that the Orthodox church is very traditional in the sense that it never changes, it is stable in its path throughout history, but i never felt that the church is more "masculine" and less "feminine" . The Church is for all the people in the world, our Lord loves us all and wants our salvation.
@miramax6165 7 күн бұрын
"Traditional churches"!!! Umm... lol??? Can you imagine a muscular John Chrysostom? 🤣 It's a crazy world out there, I'm telling you people
@8thdayadventist911 8 күн бұрын
No way Mr. Garten's argument for icon worship is, "veneration is defined as respect. Early church respected pictures. Icons are therefore okay to worship"😂
@TheTransfiguredLife 5 күн бұрын
1. Define worship? 2. What sin is being committed when one bows to an image of Christ out of reverence and respect?
@8thdayadventist911 8 күн бұрын
Even if icons are okay to "venerate", it still doesn't answer the reason for the "one true church" of Eastern Orthodoxy to condemn those who didn't agree with icon veneration.
@MegaVicar 8 күн бұрын
Several years ago I was drawn to the Orthodox Church when I read Orthodox Alaska, and Alaskan Missionary Spirituality which is letters and journal entries by the Russian monks who came to Alaska in 1794. The humility towards the natives was a breath of fresh air inside a Western Christianity still suspicious of the 'other'. So I really chuckle at the idea of Orthodoxy as particularly 'masculine', as if its some bro-centric cult.
@doubtingthomas9117 8 күн бұрын
“For I am not ashamed of the GOSPEL of Christ: for it is the POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” Romans 1:16
@nerdanalog1707 9 күн бұрын
I would still be cautious : - is this a fad? Will this stick long-term? Protestants are notorious for « church hopping » - are Protestants truly adhering to the new faith, are will they bring Protestansitsm to EO… - Orthobros are the most toxic « Christians » on the internet -> they are mean spirited, insulting, in a sense the Andrew Tate of Christians, not a good look for EO in the long run Orthodox ought to be extra attentif with their catechisis of their new converts
@nullclass0813 9 күн бұрын
His questions and knowledge and respect- I can't believe he is a pentecostal.
@jonathannunn2266 9 күн бұрын
Thank you all for the video ❤️☦️☦️☦️