Proxies, and why you should use them

[@cosmicconfidant1778]

What is your stance on proxies? I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions!

[@devinmh9125]

When wizards tried to sell us proxy packs for 1000$ I decided I didn’t care anymore, if I obtain the cards from packs, great ,if not then im proxing out the expensive cards.

[@Cynidecia]

1:33 i think 90% or so of anti proxy individuals are truthfully for this argument due to buyers remorse. they feel regret for spending so much on cards, ergo they seek validation from others for it. and when they see someone like myself spending about 12 dollars at the printing shop for some sheets of cards that deeply offends them.

[@SakuyaFM4]

I don't mind proxies. Rule Zero is a thing, you can always ask. But when it greatly increases the disparity between their deck with the rest of the table's, it's a damn issue. For instance, I told my friends I wanted to get into cEDH, but I didn't own the accelerants like Jeweled Lotus, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault, etc., so I proxied them for when I play with that group. I think that's acceptable. What isn't acceptable is taking that same deck, going to a casual mid power table and slapping everyone with a Turn 1 Godo Helm combo.

[@kamilwhaley-kalaora4839]

I definitely agree with that, but I think that has less to do with proxies and more to do with not correctly communicating your power level or actively trying to pubstomp someone. A person that owns all of those fast mana cards could easily walk up to a lower power table and crush them just the same as if they were proxies, so the problem lies within miscommunication or active deception of your decks power level rather than proxying

[@MtgVGandBGFan]

Overall, I don’t have an issue with proxies. It definitely takes the burden of cost off most players, allowing them to compete with some of the better decks in the format (and to be fair, I strictly play Commander now, so all my comments will be directed at that format). Also, as you pointed out, it makes the game more about skill and less about who has the most expensive deck. I also find it frustrating when I’m looking for specific cards for my deck, go to my LGS, and it turns out they don’t have what I’m looking for over weeks, and sometimes even months, at a time. Getting a proxy to finish out a deck is oftentimes the only avenue I have to take. Let the game be about having fun and showing your fellow players how much you bring to the game, not how deep your pockets are. Thanks for putting out this video. I hope others will take this advice and use proxies to elevate their game. Also, a big shoutout to the proxy companies and the amazing work they do recreating existing cards or putting fresh art on some of our favorite cards. I know they catch flak sometimes for doing what they do, but I know they understand the service they provide and how key it is to newer players as well as established players looking to flesh out their decks or bring a little style to them by getting a couple proxies with sweet, shiny art.

[@fivecolorscotty]

whats the outtro song? loved it! and big agree about proxies, i mostly build decks based on proxies because it's easier to create a decklist online and build a mana base from lands and artifacts I already own, and then print off all the rest.

[@cosmicconfidant1778]

The outro song is by Chris Christodolou- The rain formerly known as Purple. Risk of rain 2 ost

[@thebarkeeper13]

risk of rain 2 has such a good soundtrack

[@jellyfisch4238]

Based

[@lisaparker271]

I dont mind proxies as long as that person owns a copy. I really do not like people who proxy up dual lands and mana rocks when the rest of the table decided to not play with power cards because they don't own them. I have seen this before and its freaking disgusting.

[@subzero308]

Its a game get over it Its all just pieces of card board 😂

[@lisaparker271]

@@subzero308 thank god i dont have to play with people like you.

[@ravimamalateo3404]

That doesn't really sound like a problem with proxies. That's more problem with matching power level. That's still something everyone needs to open about in the opening talk

[@bamg3943]

really concised and well argumented video!

[@cosmicconfidant1778]

Thank you!

[@TabletopGamer99]

Proxies, when used in casual, non-sanctioned games with everyone agreeing beforehand to allow them can be good. This video, however shows off counterfeits. As much as players say that they keep the counterfeit in their collection and don't trade them around, I assure you - these cards are in circulation, players are unknowingly trading for them, and other players are both knowingly and unknowingly taking advantage of others when trading them away. And many of those websites that are selling counterfeits are actively encouraging their buyers to play them in sanctioned events. The problem with proxies is when people use what are actually counterfeits and claim they are proxies. Printer paper with the image of the card on it inside a sleeve on top of a bulk card = cool Writing "Deflecting Swat" in sharpie on a basic land and playing it = cool A card that could fool the unknowing player if no one told them it wasn't a real card = not cool, these destroy gaming communities.

[@subzero308]

Please tell me the difference between a real piece of card board and a fake piece of card board lol... I agree selling and trading counterfeits without telling someone is scummy but at the end of the day these r just over priced pieces of cardboard that shouldn't have any real value anyway. Players just wanna play the damn game. I spend money on cards because I like to its my hobby but that shouldn't stop someone else who just wants to strictly play in tournaments not to do so... I wanna play the game for skill not because I spent 1500$ on my deck and my opponent couldn't afford to optimize theirs. The price of cards is dumb and needs to drop asap. Also wotc could stop counterfeits simply by reprinting everything so PLAYERS can play the game and they refuse to because they don't wanna make a bunch of 40+ years old grown men cry over their pieces of card board that was made for CHILDREN to play.

[@TabletopGamer99]

@@subzero308 The difference between a real card and a counterfeit is that one was authorized by WotC, and the other was printed by another entity while trying to pass as authentic. If you agree that selling and trading counterfeits is scummy, why are we arguing? Casual Commander, with a consenting table using obvious proxies is perfectly fine.

[@devinmh9125]

All my proxies i buy (or counterfeits) as you call them i mark in black sharpie with a large “P” on the back so i never accidentally put them into my collection and im never tempted to trade them off

[@snipysniperson]

I don’t mind people using proxies but personally I buy the cards to just have them and invest.

[@tylerenglish9911]

Going to start with my group is pro proxy I just don't use them. The issue I've always ran into with proxies at lgs's though is that people just assume they can bring them without saying anything because its a "casual" format and should be expected. Often the decks you see that people run proxies in are considerably more powerful than decks people have in paper just due to price not being a factor for them. The conversation I feel was never "why you should use them?" but more of a when you should use them. Friend play group? by all means talk it out with them and set some guidelines up. Just don't expect everyone at a lgs or everyone online to be okay with it. Magic is an expensive game at the end of the day and people value their collection with a bit too much pride sometimes. Always be honest about it and don't sweat if someone doesn't want to play against proxies, just move on and try to find a more friendly environment to play in.

[@subzero308]

People who don't wanna play against proxies r usually the elitist who aren't very good at the game to begin with... There is literally no difference from playing again proxies... Does the proxy player gain super powers 😂.. Smh the game has truly gone to shit.

[@tylerenglish9911]

@@subzero308 the proxy player gains the ability to slam whatever they want in a deck. Reserved list cards to mana crypts. Again my problem has been people being dishonest about them even having proxies. Games not shit. People are.

[@StevenTLawson]

@@tylerenglish9911 Then it's not an issue with proxied cards. It's an issue with some cards being too powerful. You would still have a problem if someone brought the same deck of legit cards because it's clear that a proxy and a real card are exact same in effect on the game. Does it mean it's easier for people who proxy to build these decks. Sure, but those decks were always a problem. If I found a person selling a Black Lotus for $5, it doesn't make it any less powerful than someone who bought one for $3000 or the guy who proxied his off a website for $4.99+shipping. I've played against people who don't cards and they are shit players because they designed their deck to be unfun for everyone else, those games were always worse than when I played against someone who might or might not have proxied cards.

[@ChrisThe1]

eh. I personally don't use proxies, bc the money I'd spend on legit proxies is lost, while legit cards i can resell. I don't really mind other people using them, I only feel bad about faxes of kaladesh inventions and the like. Kinda goes along the lines of the first argument of I spent good money on those, so why would ppl get to enjoy the bling for cheap

[@ElManataro]

or getting rid of the reserved list.

[@zonimi]

Do this: pull up the card Sakashima's Student in TCG Player and look at the 1 year price history on the original printing (Planechase 2012). From an almost $90 card to a $10 card. In a single year. That's just one example that can happen to ANY valuable card. Whoever is buying cards for more than $20 is asking to be ripped off.

[@subzero308]

Not if u don't care about the prices and just want to own the actual cards as a hobby... IDC about the prices of my cards. I build Modern decks as a hobby and its almost like an art for me foiling out a modern deck is just fun... I agree 100% proxies should be legal everywhere... I CHOSE too spend extra money on my cards but someone who just wants to play the game shouldnt have to destroy their bank account to do so... Just want the game to go back to being for players and having fun and not care about the elitist who only care about the money side of it.

[@zonimi]

@@subzero308 Most people don't have the extra cash laying around to not care. And MTG is both a game and a collectable - you can't avoid that. How Hasbro approaches that is important. Another side to this: if you are a business selling MTG singles you have to be VERY careful what you buy or the next reprint set could wipe out the value of your inventory.

[@SH-wz3jo]

Can your local game store stay open if everyone is printing proxys?

[@Nightheart973]

Brother really didnt watch the video lmao

[@subzero308]

I don't need a LGS to play magic lol u can play magic anywhere. People shouldn't be turned away from tournaments just because they don't wanna drop 1k$+ on pieces of card board... I care about someone's skill not their bank account.

[@arlic336]

Yes, because it sell packs, wich I buy there. But If I miss some cards: Proxies!

[@Cynidecia]

who says you have to support your LGS via MTG cards only?

[@christophercombs7561]

If you need proxys to show skill you sir are in the wrong game beating the rich with the cheap is the real test of skill

[@ElManataro]

Wizard are only one who can create proxies

[@subzero308]

Smh clearly not lmao...

[@subzero308]

Proxies should be legal in tournament play and this is coming from someone who has 2 full foil modern decks... I spend money on cards cause I like to build modern decks and its like an art to me and my main hobby... But for those who just wanna play the game but still compete in tournaments should be allowed to just do that... And shouldn't have to drop 2-300$ just on a mana base unless they r trying to "bling" out their decks.. Buying foils and other alt art cards is fine as long as there is a normal game piece for everyone to just buy for a few cents or 1$ and still be able to play the game at a high level... There isn't anything wrong with proxies/counterfeits as long as u aren't trying to pass them off in trades or selling them as the "real" pieces of cardboard. Sadly magic is filled with too many elitist now who care more about the price of their cards rather then the healthiness of the game. I welcome proxies 100%.

[@christophercombs7561]

If you dont own the card you dont get to play it thats how our play group does it

[@NoMercyFtw]

If everyone proxied, it would always be cedh all the time and not everyone wants that....... it would destroy the format and make it harder to get into for the average person........

[@NoMercyFtw]

@Nick Hannah Those whales arent going to want to play with u cuz they like to buy their way through life cuz they can, the only people that get hurt is the people who dont want to proxy that u play with, i would rather beat the pay 2 win player with the card i have then to proxy them IMO................ I see it all the time on Spelltable

[@fivecolorscotty]

I think the average person would prefer to proxy because the absurd paywall for even high power EDH cards is enough to get a nice used car. No one in their right financial mind would want to pay that much for just a few decks to play a card game. There are plenty of players who want to just enjoy the gameplay (with proxies) and have an understanding of power levels when building their decks.

[@NoMercyFtw]

@@fivecolorscotty I play Edh unless im on Arena and alot of those cards arent even good or allowed in edh, and the dual lands arent needed at all for a good mana base any more, and unless ur playing cedh arent needed, i get it cards r expensive i just dont play with it unless i crack it from a pack and def wont spend more then maybe $20 on 1 card, i would rather my cards worth money in the end if i cash out and dont play anymore then useless peices of cardboard and arent worth shit, once agin its only my opinion and how i feel about it i dont care if people proxy its just some people take it too far imo............ i just look at Mtg as a game i can cash out at any time when i feel like it and get something back whether its $$$$ or trades thats the main reason i play and love the game............

[@subzero308]

Bruh do u see whats happening to legacy and vintage... Y'all cry about people using proxies and then cry when WoTC reprints CARDS WE NEED TO PLAY THE FUCKING GAME AT A REASONABLE PRICE... like which is it people shouldnt have to take a loan out just to play a damn card game Elitist have ruined this game completely... Secondary market, collectors/investors and WoTC have ruined the game for players. Surprised its just not called "who has the most money in their bank accounts The Gathering" now.

[@subzero308]

@Nick Hannah I agree 100% I spend money on Magic its my hobby I choose to do so but I would never turn down a player who proxied their whole deck to play in a tournament... At the end of the day this is a game and skill is the main focus not how much u have in ur bank account... MTG is an amazing game but sadly the community ruins it for most players.