PRS Competition Scope Considerations

[@Omi-7k]

Man does this video help someone that’s getting new into center/rim fire. Would you change anything from this tier list in an updated new video? Thank you again for helping new shooters and grow the sport. ❤

[@fl_protection]

I subbed. I very much appreciate you taking the time and making these videos. I already ordered my first PRS rifle for the production class. I went with MPA BA PRM PROII chambered in 6mm Creedmore. Since I’m not reloading (at the time I’m sending this message) I researched how much factory loads are available in the 6mm creed and with all things considered, I went this route in caliber. Because of your videos I’m able to have a better understanding on the different classes and what is required to be a participant in each class. I honestly didn’t know we had a limit for scopes (for the production division that is). Now I’m researching scopes under the $2500 mark and seeing what I’ll go with. Thanks again for the video and God bless

[@The4GunGuy]

Thanks so much for subbing and the kind words FLP! If you watch my scope videos, you'll see that to me, the reticle is key. Find a reticle that makes sense to YOU and remember you want a Mil reticle and turrets, not MOA (if you hunt, you're probably used to an MOA scope). Good luck in your hunt and let us know what you go with. By the way, really good choice on the rifle, that MPA is awesome and you'll love the 6 CM cartridge.

[@gmg3precision]

Great topic and video! I think that its safe to say that scopes have really come a long way in the past few years (especially the "budget" scopes, and definitely the reticle is very important.

[@The4GunGuy]

Totally agree GMG! I mean, that Discovery optic I reviewed a couple months ago was a $400 scope and man, it was nice. Ran 100+ rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor through the rifle and that scope held up great. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@Ibelieveinfreedom]

I can’t believe that you don’t have more subscribers. Your channel, presentations, reviews are excellent. I just beginning to get into long distance , can you make a video about how to used the scope turrets and elevation. Thank you

[@tonypipTexas]

Hi BoricuaHunter! Thanks for the kind words and for watching my friend! I'm hoping folks like you will spread the word!

[@rfair123]

So which one is the best? 😄 But seriously, great effort, video and presentation. This is one of those topics, especially for people like me who are just getting started and have no one I know into long range to feed off, that you get 10 different answers for every question so the way you've laid it out and made solid real life references is very helpful.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi rfair123! Thanks for the kind words. Yes, just getting started is pretty daunting! As I say, set a budget, decide what's important to you for just starting out, and spend wisely. If you get hooked, then you upgrade your equipment. Remember also, that for some of these optics, you should be able to sell them on snipershide and not lose too much money. Thanks for watching my friend and feel free to email me ([e-mail]) with questions.

[@philwalter1058]

This is just what I needed today! Thank you!

[@tonypipTexas]

Thanks Phil!

[@robertbusato]

Apex Rival is one of the best value for your money right now hands down👍👍

[@tonypipTexas]

Hi Robert! I have to look into them, thanks for the advice, and thanks for watching my friend!

[@commonsense5709]

I think the Vortex Razor Gen 3 is far superior and worth paying the extra cost.

[@stevedavis5349]

Great video! I’m just getting into PRS! This is what I needed to know!!

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Steve! Glad it helped and I have other videos on running stages that might help as well. Good luck in your PRS journey and thanks for watching my friend!

[@EPGunman]

I am not shooting any type of matches at the moment but I just bought a Bergara B14r and I have an Arken SH4J Gen 2 6-24 on it. I am just starting to dial it in and break the barrel in good but I have great luck with this scope. I never have felt I needed more even on my .308 out to 800 yards. I am trying to keep my scopes as close as I can for standardization.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi EP! That's a very good way of thinking about things. I did a video on standardization and for my 22LR and Centerfire Bolt Gun, I'm pretty much standardized now. It makes switching much easier. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@BumpsideGarage]

Just ordered the Athlon Ares ETR 5-30 for my first prs scope, looking forward to getting some time behind it.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Bump! Great scope for your money, you'll love it. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@DubfromGA]

Drooling over some of the glass on your bench. I recently bought a Vortex Gen3 6-36 and am waiting on the action & barrel to arrive to mount it. Hoping it works out well for me.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Dub! Sorry I missed your comment earlier. Glad you went with the Gen 3, I have switched to that scope for all three comp rifles now and love them. Enjoy the scope and thanks for watching my friend!

[@ForceRecon112]

Love the tract Toric 4-25-50

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi ForceRecon! Yep, love my TRACT Toric too, but I couldn't pass the deal up on another Gen III so got it and now the Toric is my backup scope for all three comp rifles. Still, for the money, I don't think many can come close to TRACT quality. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@lamarvinfomby9360]

With you having experience with the tract toric, what tier would you consider it to be?

[@The4GunGuy]

​@@lamarvinfomby9360 I can't believe I DIDN'T have the TRACT Toric in my matrix! I could have sworn I did and feel horrible about omitting it being it is one of my favorite scopes. I would say it is definitely a Tier 2 scope and I'll put it up against most of them any day. Thanks for pointing this out and for watching my friend!

[@aaronm3531]

I know my Midas Tac is considered lower tier, but man I like it. Haven’t run into a scenario yet that I feel my optic was holding me back. I go blurry before it does 😉🤓😎

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Aaron! "Low Tier" today is rivaling mid-tier scopes for sure. There are so many options out there it's hard to cover them all...Thanks for including the Midas Tac and thanks for watching as usual my friend!

[@christopherfreeman3095]

Midas Tac is a great scope. Especially for its price range. But it does start to fall short of the next level of optics once you get out past 5-600yds. The sharpness and clarity can start to earn you points on beat up targets. I feel that the next jump to Tier 1 scopes is the same again, but now at around 1000yds.

[@sandybartlett1333]

I just a burris xtr pro it has better glass and better eye relied and a better reticle than my nf atacr 5-25 . Hard for me to say since I love nf. But it is what it is. I'd consider it a tier 1 scope

[@jimlerum]

Good stuff. Thanks!

[@The4GunGuy]

Thanks Jim!

[@nrspence8258]

Great video. Your content is very helpful. Thanks for taking the effort to put them out. Have you had the chance to get behind a zeiss lrp s3 6-36x56, it seems to punch above its price point like the razor Gen 3.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Nate! I have looked through the LRP S3 and was very impressed. The glass was on par with a Razor Gen II (which I used when I first got into PRS and is a very good scope), so I would certainly say it's a good option at a better price point. You're on a roll watching my stuff and I really appreciate it!

[@1clnsdime1]

Great video. I personally think production prs should be closer to rimfire price. Let people with budget options not feel like they are getting beat bc of money alone. I would like to see the production class at 2k.

[@tonypipTexas]

@1clnsdime1 I totally agree. IMO, production is the rifle, not the scope, and smaller targets in rimfire at 300 yds can be hard to see with less quality optics. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@daleevans5122]

I agree! At 3k you can get an amazing PRS rifle. Even some sponsored pros shoot production, to sell rifles I’m sure.

[@boatscrypto5856]

Arken makes a great LH4 6-24x50 scope thats been on backorder. 24 oz, $300 and capped turrets. no zero stop

[@tonypipTexas]

Hi Boats! I have heard very good things about Arken and sorry I didn't include them. I think it would probably be a great 22LR competition scope. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@fun__stuff]

I really like the reticle MRI from the Zeiss S3 6-36x56 for 2400€

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi fun__stuff! I thought the S3 was really nice when I looked through it at a vendor day during a match and it's in the top 5 for the price for sure. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@chrismckamie5036]

Great video. Can you comment on why you standardized with votex and moved away from ZCO? Is there a video on this subject?

[@tonypipTexas]

Hi Chris! There will be a video on it now! :) My eyes are just too old/bad to benefit from the ZCO to be honest with you. I can't see trace and have a hard time seeing my misses even WITH the ZCO, so I thought, let me get what money I can for the ZCO now instead of waiting for a new version to come out (which it did) and I get less. The ZCO is an excellent optic, so no negatives there at all. Thanks for watching my friend and for the new video idea!

[@MedicatedOMO]

I have 2 DiscoveryOpt scopes from Amazon. A 8x32 50 and 6x24 50. Both are fully featured, lifetime warrantied, and support was instant responses. I tested it. Try one and send it back if not satisfied is all i can say. Im happy with the evil Chinese company that satisfies my budget. Both scopes were under $300 each. IM HAPPY.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi MedicatedOMO! I totally agree. I've left the discovery on my wife's 6.5 CM and after a few hundred rounds and practicing on props out to 900 yds, the scope has been fantastic. Nothing wrong with that scope at all. Thanks for watching and for the input my friend!

[@linkchen8245]

For rimfire production class , is there any scope that can go with the new CZ 457 Varmint Precision Chassis rifle? It retails for 1115 therefore the scope needs to be below 385 USD msrp.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Linkchen8245! They raised the production cost to $1600, so you have $100 more to play with now. At $485 for the scope, you might look at Vortex, Athlon, Arken, and the Discovery (amzn.to/3Jl876h), which I did a review on (kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3zOnHaHrt5lgM0) and love for the money. If you're planning on upgrading the scope in the future, then the Discovery gives you everything you need right now (56mm objective, 34mm tube, very good turrets, and a great reticle) at almost a "throw away" price. look at other options using the my scope review matrix in most of my scope review videos (kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnmrmp2NjZegg5Y for example). Hope this helps and make sure you do your research on the things that are important for PRS style shooting.

[@linkchen8245]

@@The4GunGuy That is great to know thank you! Any chance of reviewing their gen2 5-25?

[@johngunn4573]

I'm surprised I didn't see Zeiss S3 in your top tier list?? Any comment on those? Thanks

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi John! I would put the S3 in the middle tier list, but honestly, I've been behind a few of them and two things didn't sit well with me: 1) The parallax was very finicky, at least for me, and I had to adjust every 100 - 200 yards of distance; 2) The glass wasn't all that good, again, at least to my eyes. I loved the reticle, but just couldn't seem to get a clear sight picture. Hope this helps, and I'm sure it's a good scope for younger eyes. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@NiteQwill_]

See you there Leupold Steel Classic 2024!!! Maybe it will storm all weekend, again. lol

[@The4GunGuy]

Man I wish I could make it, but family plans come first, so gonna miss the LSC this year. Shoot straight NiteQwill!

[@EmpTy-kf2rq]

I want to shoot production center fire but I do not want to reload. I just want to buy factory match ammo. Which calibers would you recommend? I do want a 6 ARC but MPA doesn’t have that barrel option for their PMR rifles.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Empty! Many people are moving to the 6mm Creedmoor (CM) cartridge, which can be found in off the shelf ammo now for around $1.35/rd (look at ammoseek.com). The 6mm CM is still more recoil than say a 6mm Dasher or BRA (like I shoot), but people are loving it. I did a search on ammoseek and the only one for off the shelf that is readily available is the 6mm CM, so I'd go with that and not look back. Hope this helps and thanks for watching my friend! Oh, look up my video on reloading costs and you might change your mind: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnSxg52vZ8qSepI AND my reloading equipment costs here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmHViXRrbpKKma8

[@EmpTy-kf2rq]

@@The4GunGuy thank you! I appreciate the feedback!

[@Bergara65]

Zeiss LRP S3 should be a consideration. Especially at 25% off msrp!

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Bergara65! Absolutely. I feel bad that I didn't include Zeiss and thanks for reminding us all. Thanks also for watching my friend!

[@commonsense5709]

Just pray you get a good one.

[@JGard417]

Where did you find it for 25% off?

[@The4GunGuy]

@@JGard417 it was probably around Christmas time. BUT, if you were to join PRS today for the regional membership, which is $55/yr, you could buy the LRP S3 on Eurooptic.com for $2,124 today. I tell people all the time to join PRS, that $55/yr has saved me thousands in equipment. I get nothing from either of these places so I'm not doing it but to save you some money. Hope this helps!

[@davidreed6779]

My parallel adjustment not only takes care of parallex it does clear up the image. Especially at the higher magnifications. Wouldn't you call that focus

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi David! Yeah, this is a slippery slope and I tend to agree with you on it. The ocular ("rear focus") is really the reticle focus, so when you look through the scope and "focus" using the ocular, you're getting the reticle in focus for your specific eyes. The parallax is designed to bring the reticle and the TARGET in focus and on the same focal plane, which is why on some scopes you have to adjust the parallax every 150 yd change but others (better scopes) you may not even need to touch it once it's set and you change zoom. I use both terms interchangeably sometimes and I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as people know what I mean. Hope this helps and thanks for watching my friend!

[@VikingNorway-pb5tm829]

So my k98k from 1941 with Kongsberg barrel(3006) and NF SHV 5-20x56 is good? To my hunt it is, but competition? :)

[@tonypipTexas]

Hi Viking! the NF yes, the k98k...Um, no unfortunately :). That NF is a great scope for PRS and I see a LOT of them on the line every match. In one of my scope videos I found that the reticle wasn't to my liking, but that's a personal preference. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@VikingNorway-pb5tm829]

@@tonypipTexas i got 13mm 5 shot at 100m with Norma training ammo :) um... hehe

[@VikingNorway-pb5tm829]

Sorry for the german joke, it was taken away.. and i find a place that have the text: WWII German Mauser 98K rifle at 1,000 yards... i will ask them instead.

[@edwinlongwell]

Surprised you didn’t include the Match Pro in T3.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Edwin! Yep, so many options out there, I had to just go with a few as an example, but the Match Pro is certainly a valid option. It's interesting to see these sub-$600 scopes putting all the features of the more expensive scopes in the build. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@commonsense5709]

Bushnells warranty sucks.

[@thomasteac8919]

Always good content… Thanks

[@tonypipTexas]

Thanks Thomas!

[@michaeldalton3358]

I just ordered a mpa pmr in 6 dasher. It's just squeezing into production. What would be your best recommendation om.scope for that. To many options

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Michael! That's great news! Now, the issue with the scopes is that you have to go off of MSRP on the manufacturer's website, so out of the list I had there, I like the Athlon -- Cronus BTR GEN2 4.5-29x56mm APRS1 FFP IR MIL Riflescope 210114 -- because of the reticle, it has good glass, and if you have your PRS account (just sign up for the regional annual at $40), Eurooptic will sell you that scope for about $1,125. Another option is the TRACT Toric (which I have a love) that has German glass and a great reticle. You can't get it on Eurooptic though, so you'll pay full retail at $1,494. There are other options out there, but beware of the MSRP thing and do your research on the RETICLE which is a really important part of a scope for PRS. Hope this helps and thanks for watching my friend!

[@dancrea9407]

I watched a video of yours from about 2 years ago where you talked about why you choose the ZCO. Now you say you are selling your ZCO and sticking with Vortex. Curious as to why?

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Dan! LOVE the ZCO, and if I was 10 years younger, I'd still be using them on all my competition rifles. But, my eyes aren't as good as they used to be and frankly, the spend isn't worth the value for me any longer. I can't see bullet trace, and with the Gen III I can see impacts and misses, so I've decided to "downgrade" and save some money. I may do a video on this in the future. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@RockinRack]

I agree I recently got my first zco and feel it was a little over hyped. For the money it is a very marginal improvement. It is definitely top teir but now that I own one I'll probably be sticking with leupold vortex and maybe nightforce. The vortex gen 3 and leupold 7-35 are both a step above their little brothers in image quality imo. And both can be had used for under 2k

[@The4GunGuy]

@@RockinRack Thanks for the input. That's definitely why I went back to the Gen III's, the ZCO is just too much money for what I need it for and at my stage of the game. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@johngee1723]

A parallax adjustment is NOT a focus. It aligns the focal point of the image and the reticle. It does not matter if the image is clear. If you move your head around your crosshairs will shift on the target when your parallax is set incorrectly. You may think you have 3-400 yards where it is good, and if you have a good consistent cheek weld it may hit your target, but that does not mean the parallax is adjusted out correctly. The eyepiece is the actual focus.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi John! Yes, there are many conversations around this topic. A great explanation of the relationship between the ocular focus and the parallax (often referred to the 'side focus') can be found in an outdoorsmans article here: outdoorsmans.com/blogs/rifle-scopes/correcting-and-adjusting-rifle-scope-parallax. I use the term 'focus' for the parallax adjustment loosely in my video as I view it in line with how the article describes it...The ocular is designed to 'focus' the reticle to your individual eye. The parallax (side focus) is designed to match the reticle with the actual focal plane which is set relative to the distance to the target. Sorry for any confusion and hope I cleared up my meaning in the video. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@RyanGlathar]

Has the Strike Eagle went up that much in price? I am seeing way more expensive than 800.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Ryan! I'm seeing this Mil version on most sights around the $800 price (EuroOptic, OpticsPlanet, etc...). These scopes are getting ridiculous in pricing, which is why I'm trying to provide some alternatives in other videos. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@davidreed6779]

I know most don't think this way. I think everyone should start. Chinese scopes should not even be talked about let alone being considered for purchase. You have got to know what they're doing and trying to do to this country. They are not our friends plus how they treat their own people. I believe we just have to start standing up for what's right now just what is best for your pocketbook. Like your show but come on.

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi David! I grew up in the 70's and remember the same feelings towards the Japanese...Now, with that said, I think the Japanese appreciated us far more than the Chinese did/do, so I agree with what you're saying. But, when we look around our homes and see our appliances, TV's, computers, light bulbs, etc...Coming from China, I think it's just too late...Again, I totally agree that I'd like to NOT buy China made products, but the reality is, that when we're all on a budget, we buy them. I have some very interesting thoughts on our relationship with China and the future of it all, but, that's for another channel which I hope will someday be up and running when I retire . Thanks for the frank and honest input and thanks again for watching my friend!

[@boatscrypto5856]

I feel like a lot of people use the tract toric optics

[@tonypipTexas]

Hi Boats! I was running the TRACT Toric on my new gas gun and loved it...They are great optics for the money. But I was able to get a great deal on another Gen III so I decided to just have one on each of my three comp rifles. I'm using the TRACT as my backup scope. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@brianyoung8999]

do they allow scopes such as the Burris eliminator?

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Brian! I believe they would allow it, but I'd check with them first. Nothing in the rules says anything about a scope with built in ballistic calculator...BUT, I would highly advise against it because you will be shooting up to 5 different targets from up to 5 different positions in under 2 minutes, and trust me, that time flies enough without worrying how to adjust the calculator on your scope. Also while shooting a stage, you may shoot those targets out of order at various ranges, so you might get lost very quickly in that turret. Best bet is to use a wrist coach with cards and dial elevation...How you handle wind (dialing/holding) is up to you, but another factor in that scope calculator that may throw you off. Don't get me wrong, they're great for say hunting, but I've never seen anyone use one in competition. Hope this helps and thanks for watching my friend!

[@brianyoung8999]

@The4GunGuy you mean I have to learn?😀 Jokes aside, I hope it will be good as a teaching scope.

[@6Dasher]

What height scope rings on your Spuhr with the Gen 3?

[@tonypipTexas]

Hi PewPewDrew! I use 1.5" or 'high' mounts because I don't like leaning over to get behind the scope. If you adjust in your ballistics calculator you'll be fine. Others like to be a close to the bore as possible...It's a personal preference, what works for you. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@6Dasher]

@@tonypipTexas thank you. I just got the same scope and new Spuhr mount in 1.50. Good to see it’s working for you. Saw your other mounting video, is there a reason you didn’t use the Spuhr wedge to install the Gen 3?

[@aaronmtnfit]

How would you rank the Nightforce NX8s?

[@The4GunGuy]

Hi Aaron! Glass wise I think they're great. And I wish they had a 34mm version. My biggest issue with NF is the Mil-XT reticle and it's just a personal thing. That reticle is just too busy for me with the variation in the markings along the Elevation/windage axes (plural), and I'm not a Tremor fan so no reticle works for me. I wish NF would come out with a ZCO/Gen III type reticle because their scopes are pretty awesome from a build perspective...But again, that's just me. Thanks for watching my friend!

[@aaronmtnfit]

I've been debating between the NX8, a Mark 5 or Zeiss LRP but it's for a long range 300 wm, not a PRS build. I liked this video a lot! Thanks for making it.@@The4GunGuy

[@commonsense5709]

@@aaronmtnfit If you buy a Zeiss just pray you get a good one. I really like my Vortex Razor Gen 3 6-36x56 and Nightforce NX8 4-32x50 F1 MIL-XTs. I just ordered 2 more of these Nightforce NX8s this past sale awaiting backorder.