PS5 Pro PSSR vs Nvidia DLSS, Blackwell, RDNA 4, Arrow Lake | Hardware Unboxed | Broken Silicon 249

Tim from Hardware Unboxed joins to analyze PSSR performance and upcoming releases.
[SPON: Use "brokensilicon“ at CDKeyOffer to get Win 11 Pro for $23: www.cdkeyoffer.com/cko/Moore11 ]
[SPON: Get 10% off Tasty Vite Ramen with code BROKENSILICON: bit.ly/3wKx6v1 ]
[SPON: Tell COSWHEEL MLID sent you when you check out the CT20: www.coswheelebike-eu.com/allo... ]
0:00 Are laptops getting interesting for Tim again?
8:13 Assessing GPU VRAM Longevity in Reviews
16:12 Image Quality & Performance Demands in AAA Games
27:05 DLSS vs FSR in 2024
38:29 RADEON’s Issues Competing w/ Nvidia Features
1:04:59 Analyzing Sony PSSR Image Quality
1:25:59 PS5 Pro & RDNA 4 Ray Tracing
1:47:55 Did Sony make PSSR because FSR failed?
1:58:21 Nvidia Blackwell
2:13:46 AMD Zen 5 vs i9-14900KS
2:22:35 Intel Arrow Lake Release Date Leak, LGA 1851 Concerns
2:29:06 The Future of OLED Monitors
MAJOR SPONSORS:
Support MLID by getting a FREE SSD from Microcenter: micro.center/brokensilicon
Cheap Windows & Gaming Keys:
25% software discount code: brokensilicon
3% OFF EVERYTHING discount code: dieshrink
Win 11 Pro ($23): www.cdkeyoffer.com/cko/Moore11
Win 10 Pro ($17): www.cdkeyoffer.com/cko/Moore10
Win10 Home ($15): www.cdkeyoffer.com/cko/Moore10h
Office 2016 ($29): www.cdkeyoffer.com/cko/Moore16
Office 2019 ($48): www.cdkeyoffer.com/cko/Moore19
Get 10% off Vite Ramen w/ "brokensilicon" at the following link: bit.ly/3oyv4tR
Patreon: / mooreslawisdead
US Amazon Affiliate Link: amzn.to/3Xzf1eE
Address Fan Mail to:
Moore's Law Is Dead,
PO Box 60632
Nashville, TN 37206
Broken Silicon [A PC Hardware Podcast] is available on ALL platforms.
/ mooreslawisdead
www.stitcher.com/podcast/moor...
podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
play.google.com/music/listen?...
open.spotify.com/show/6cdnW7Y...
RSS: / sounds.rss
Twitter: / mooreslawisdead
All Music by SAHARA:
/ saharasuck
/ @saharasuck
Broken Silicon Logo by Tom.
Broken Silicon burning graphic by Tom & Sulphurous:
/ sulphurous11
2021 Video Intro by Tom & abstractrealism on the MLID Discord
LINKS!!!!!!:
Last time Tim was on BS: • Zen 5 Strix, RX 7600 v...
HUB KZbin Channel: / @hardwareunboxed
MUB KZbin Channel: / @monitorsunboxed
HUB Podcast Channel: / @thehardwareunboxedpod...
HUB i9-14900KS Review: • Intel's 4th Attempt At...
MLID i9-14900KS Analysis: • Video
MLID PSSR Leak: • Video
1080p FSR Analysis: • AMD MUST Fix FSR Upsca...
1080p DLSS Analysis: • Is DLSS Worth Using at...
www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs...
wccftech.com/resident-evil-vi...
• God of War Ragnarok | ...
www.techspot.com/review/2793-...

[@MooresLawIsDead]

[SPON: Use "brokensilicon“ at CDKeyOffer to get Win 11 Pro for $23: www.cdkeyoffer.com/cko/Moore11 ] [SPON: Get 10% off Tasty Vite Ramen with code BROKENSILICON: bit.ly/3wKx6v1 ] [SPON: Tell COSWHEEL MLID sent you when you check out the CT20: www.coswheelebike-eu.com/allot/transfer/1000226?redirectPath=%2Fproducts%2Fct20-ebike ]

[@fracturedlife1393]

What about Hardware Busters some month? Aris knows his shit. And it can sometimes sound like he said "Hardware B@stards" which is something!

[@tomoconnell2320]

Tom, what node is the PS5 Pro on? Your earlier leaks said N4P but have not seen the node mentioned specifically in recent videos. Is that still accurate?

[@13loodLust]

Can I request the next special guest to be the founder of Userbenchmark? We need to figure out what AMD did to his parents.

[@ScavengerFX]

That's hilarious

[@1Grainer1]

it all happened in a nearby grocery store, his father wanted to cut in line but he was unfortunate enough to encounter Lisa Su, who did not let him cut in and mentally traumatized him with "wee wee ass haircut" quote, which hit him so hard that his entire lineage now boils in anger at a mere thought of AMD

[@mikehawk6918]

His wife's boyfriend has an AMD pc and it drives him mad that they play fortnite together.

[@davidholomakoff4514]

Underrated comment for sure! Lol iykyk

[@eyescreamsandwitch52]

or to his ass for that matter.

[@FSAPOJake]

Ancient Gameplays, Vex, and now Tim from Hardware Unboxed? Man this podcast has been on a roll lately when it comes to guests.

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

Agreed 💯

[@ofon2000]

Vex doesn't really have anything interesting to say or add to in a conversation regarding tech. Ancient Gameplays and Tim though are excellent guests!

[@waynejr.6763]

@@ofon2000Have to agree, but I pray that Vex keeps growing and produces content with more depth and insight in the future.

[@ofon2000]

@@waynejr.6763 True he is young...but I mostly see him adhering to click-bait youtube practices. Hope he does become more insightful and meaningful in terms of content as well.

[@Celis.C]

Tim's been on before: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5S7nKmMm8hlr9k kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnXPlnWJi8RgaMU kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqqvmGCoar-HjcU kzbin.info/www/bejne/an25potse9t3jsk kzbin.info/www/bejne/nH3WnXd7Z5yLrrs So has Steve: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooCVY4GvlJlkpMU

[@Archer_Legend]

Super episode, I am glad to see Tim back so soon!

[@erikhendrickson59]

He's always great. *_Monitors Unboxed_* is one of the best display channels going. I'm sure he's saved me lots of time and frustration over the years

[@matthewsmith3817]

Sony nailed the headphone audio side of things with the Tempest engine. I wish more multiplatform games available on PC were made with 3D binaural audio. It doesn't get much more immersive than hearing convincing 360-degree sound with high-end closed-back headphones.

[@mikem2253]

Agreed. As someone with a PS5 and a PC the audio positional awareness from PS5 is unmatched. Its really that good.

[@rodiculous9464]

It depends how the dev implements it. Tarkov has binaural audio but everyone universally complains about the sound locating in that game.

[@bionicseaserpent]

90s game audio but with no sub optimal quality, because surround sound was a thing then, and it worked.

[@vectoralphaSec]

What are some PS5 games that have the best 3D audio?

[@mddunlap03]

5.1 surpund or better with 8 track quad chanel audio ftw

[@PaulSpades]

Tim is really engaged in this one. Good discussion points and arguments. This is the most enjoyable Broken Silicon in a while for me. Cheers!

[@botherednickel5930]

Yoo it's awesome to see 2 different creators share their asspects and show how close the community really is at large.

[@aschraub9897]

Tim and Steve will always be the best at benchmark's its always cool too see them on podcasts and other shows

[@ehenningsen]

I've been thinking AMDs GPU decisions have some or all these in mind: 1) R&D budget - Right now, NVIDIA has a massive budget, so try to keep up even if that means a generation or so late. One day, a window may open up like with what happened during Intel's 10nm issues. - note on raytracing, word is that RDNA4 and RDNA5 are being designed to make big moves. Im hoping this is true, the PS5 Pro leak is starting to reveal this is coming to fruition. 2) In the meantime, focus on the special dies for consoles and their own CPUs. Continue to take advantage of these cores in Ryzen to gain more of a CPU edge. 3) Accept the momentary flux of low R&D budgeting, being behind feature-wise and take wins where they can be done now. 4) While playing keep up, start to push new features that would destabilize NVIDIAs edge. Maybe right now isn't the time, but at least get ready for it. 5) Keep up the FSR development even if it is third out of the three. Work with Microsoft and really push optimization within the OS. Push specialized core development to take advantage of these features (both DX and FSR) which should greatly close gaps or even surpass NVIDIA at some point. Regarding PSSR vs FSR - Sony continuously produces elite scaling hardware/software solutions in their TVs. They are the premium brand. Im not at all surprised they were able to produce such a quality upscaler on AMD hardware. AMD is still pretty new to this, they will get there.

[@TorsionTestis]

I just want good competition. I will only buy nvidia anyway

[@mimimimeow]

Ultimately only one matters: Chip die size. They have to pack what they want into a 300mm²-ish die, smaller is better. The larger it is, higher probability of defect, higher cost.

[@waynewhite2314]

Didn't pore thru everything u said but saw enough to see uv a great analysis of the realities.

[@waynewhite2314]

​@@TorsionTestisContradiction. Uv voting to hurt urself.

[@samueldsouza8797]

​@@mimimimeowonce they can make GPU chiplets, this would be less of a issue

[@brunoutechkaheeros1182]

41:43 quote on quote "RTX 6090" the meme card

[@halrichard1969]

Always enjoy when you bring someone to the show. Tim is always good for info and opinions.

[@motomasterx5824]

Traded my 3070 for a 6700XT + $100 (I got the $100 with the GPU) when I started noticing VRAM being an issue over a year ago. Very glad I did now, even at 1080P I used over 8-10GB in many games, and rarely need more GPU grunt. NVIDIA is ridiculous selling mid-high end cards with 8gb still.

[@christophermullins7163]

3070 ti is easily fast enough to do 4k with dlss quality but no way it has the VRAM for that. The cost of vram is so low.. we all know that 8gb frame buffer exists to upsell you to the 3080 or make you upgrade soon because of the lack of VRAM. Crazy how Nvidia is shameless with these tactics. And people still buy them! I am for AMD simply because I cannot bring myself to give my hard earned cash to a company as deceitful and anti consumer as Nvidia. I've been running Alan Wake 2 hopping back and forth with pathtracing on vs off and.. idk if it is just a poor implementation but I don't see much of a difference and certainly not enough to make me support that company.

[@jjlw2378]

AMD gpus stutter non stop in Alan Wake 2, crash constantly in Helldivers 2, are unstable af in Lords of the Fallen, and aren't even able to launch some of the Fallout games. I would NEVER buy a gpu that suffers so many issues.

[@christophermullins7163]

@@jjlw2378 fortunately for me.. I have never had an issue with an amd gpu so i get to pay far less for the same experience and not have texture loading issues due to lack of vram. I am happy i went with a new $420 6950xt. You get 8gb from nvidia for that price lmao enjoy

[@dylanjastle]

@@jjlw2378where are you getting this information? I have seen demos with frame time graphs in all of those games using AMD gpus. All running well. My close friend runs an 7900xt for Allan wake 2 and it runs like butter. Who has better 1% low is a per game toss up between nvidia and AMD. Are you attempting to run these new games on an RX480?

[@ValkisCalmor]

​@@jjlw2378 Helldivers is well known for crashing on just about every system but my 7900XT hasn't crashed since last month's driver update, and I've played every fallout since 3 on either that or my old 5700XT just fine aside from the universal issues in 3 and NV, which are also famous for crashing on all modern systems. Haven't played the other two, but you don't seem like a very good source here.

[@Even-Steven]

Always happy to see Tim or Steve swing by. HU is a staple for me.

[@juno1597]

Always a pleasure to listen to Tim. I wish there was some discussion of ULMB 2, after using ULMB on my PG-279Q Asus monitor, I can never go back as it's must-high feature for me I look forward to the advancements of this technology.

[@Jojo_Tolentino]

Regarding VRAM longevity, memory usage goes up at a fast rate compared before when RT isn’t a thing or how tailored games are to utilize low VRAM buffer (particularly 4-6GB usable of PS4 as reference). Now, we had everything brute forced by rasterization instead of smokes and mirrors techniques used in the previous gen. 8GB vram size today will be having a hard time keeping up with the new technologies and demanding techniques alongside large texture sizes. 12GB should be minimum for now and 16GB minimum right before PS6/Xbox A-Z Series 2 releases.

[@TheGuruStud]

10 yr old games running great on 2GB vram are far superior to brand new games needing 8+... Hmmm, wonder what the common denominator is....

[@mikehawk6918]

@@TheGuruStud The competence of developers has massively decreased as games have become more popular and game studios got flooded with university "game development" graduates. It's almost comical if you go explore the game files. Things that were industry standards for 30+ years have been simply forgotten, and devs just try to brute force instead of optimize. There's still some game studios that know what they're doing, like ID software.

[@christophermullins7163]

Always a great ride when I can listen to mlid podcast. Tim is a legend!

[@elijahjohn4482]

Fantastic episode, thank you for bringing Tim 🎉❤

[@Akkbar21]

I've been enjoying your content quite a bit. I think I've been overly critical of your videos in the past and I wanted to say that I find you content to be rather interesting, informative, and despite some of my skepticism and concerns of bias, has in large part proven to be accurate. Thanks for the hard work and best of luck going forward. I'll be watching... and prob commenting, for better or worse.

[@shapeshiftsix]

Glad to see you've escaped from the Reddit hivemind! They all just bash Tom nonstop for the dumbest reasons.

[@alcozar5905]

Love to see Tim, bought a new OLED monitor because Tim!!!

[@TheHighborn]

Same

[@Sidak_studio]

I open my phone, see I hace a notification from mlid, click on it, see that Hub is back. Like the video Wait that was an hour ago, the podcast is half way over

[@pretentiousarrogance3614]

You need guests like these who are very engaging and actually have thoughts to put in the table.

[@parsa5290]

Tim is back so soon? Lets goooo!!

[@Trustmage]

Feels like Christmas 😍

[@olo398]

AM4 owner here, yes platform longevity matters to me....and give me more PCIE 5.0 lanes for my gpu/hi end SSD, no splitting lane BS. show me the value!

[@nitroxide17]

really good feedback on radeon group's decision making

[@PookaBot]

Mentioning FXAA... not all of it was made equal. I used Radeon Pro with my old HD6870 back in the day and that had a variety of quality settings for FXAA. The higher settings didn't blur the image at all and were still more performant than MSAA while having better coverage of things like transparencies. I think it got a bad name because the implementations of it were poor or low quality.

[@Loundsify]

I remember it being very good in max Payne 3. Had a clean image at 1080p whilst being able to run the game maxed out. On a HD7950

[@mikehawk6918]

FXAA is post processing AA. It's pretty much the same as SMAA (not to be confused with MSAA) and the reason why it sucks isn't because of blurriness or ghosting like in TAA but the fact that because it's post processing, it can only AA certain parts of the image to a limited degree. It works ok on forward rendering games but sucks badly on deferred rendering games, much like SMAA, and MSAA won't even run unless you implement it for EVERY single shader separately, hence why TAA exists.

[@arenzricodexd4409]

It got bad name because it is not MSAA or SSAA. simple as that. Same as why some people did not want to accpet any form of upscaling no matter how good it is because it is not native rendering.

[@RAM_845]

The two Ts Tom and Tim...awesome combo! I upgraded from 1080ti to the RX 6800 16Gb AsRock Challenger Pro. last year ex mining card and still running awesome today. I game at 1440p...so hoping AMD's RX 8800XT will be an awesome upgrade. That way I can max out the settings on 1440p. I game at the high preset with motion blur off, Ultra is nice but at a price of lower fps

[@philosophia_melancholia6614]

Hy i have a Q: i'm wondering is there any benefit on running a second monitor on the cpu over the gpu?

[@antalpoti]

Nice guest selection recently. I wish you could schedule one with Jarrod from Jarrod's Tech at one point.

[@BLASTIC0]

39:15 I think homeboy question/opinion here is spot on. summed up quite nicely

[@HarryVoyager]

Honestly, what interests me about Strix Halo is were talking something that can be 1660 Ti+ performance that fits in a thin and light. I don't do heavy gaming on my laptop, but being able to play older and AA games on my laptop when I'm on the road is very nice in something that I can also use as an ultrabook.

[@silentobserver4425]

Great crossover episode

[@Frostvul]

Hey can someone explain to me what 4k native games are? For example on the PS5, people have the tendency to say the games are not native but always upscaled. I find that hard to believe.

[@lorsch.]

17:51: I would like to see supersampling added back along with TAA. The problem with doing supersampling via the driver route is that at least on the Nvidia side, DSR factors are blocked on monitors using DSC. Supersampling can still be quite relevant for 1440p monitors and it is quite annoying that it is not available for some high refresh / ultrawide 1440p monitors.

[@benjaminoechsli1941]

2:35:52 Glad to see Tim bringing up self-emitting QDs and microLEDs, because I would definitely consider those the two technologies that have been publicly announced that have even a hope of dethroning OLED.

[@Frostvul]

It might.

[@tomoconnell2320]

Tom, what node is the PS5 Pro on? Your earlier leaks said N4P but have not seen the node mentioned specifically in recent videos. Is that still accurate?

[@royaltypoetry1533]

I don't believe him because why Sony hasn't made it official yet if it's coming out this year

[@TrueThanny]

01:13:40 FSR supports dynamic resolution scaling, so that wouldn't be something new with the Sony upscaler.

[@RocketRenton]

2:30:01 You have to sit 1.03m to tell the difference from 1080p to 4k on a 55" TV, that's why they only make them in 32", it's pointless to go any lower apart from pixel density. Most are made by LG, Hisense using Patents from Sharp Display and Samsung, with a few CSOT panels as well which is TCL and Samsung combined.

[@Edward135i]

I thought it was going to be Steve, but Tim is a great consolation prize.

[@itsjusterthought7941]

Looking the PS5 Pro spec, it is clear the selling point this time around is ray tracing and upscaling image stability. It make sense if you are trying to give the most bang for the buck. In every scenario, whether viewing the game on a small screen, a large screen or from different distances, the player can see the ray tracing benefit every time. Whereas higher resolution or higher frame rate is only noticeable in certain circumstances and certain types of game. You can see the quality of ray tracing on a tiny screen from across the room, or a large screen covering a whole wall, in every type of game. The other point is pixel stability. When a game is upscaled, you get temporal sub pixel shimmering. Again, that can be noticed on a large screen at any distance, because the effect gets amplified by neighbouring pixels to form a shimmering group. The focus on a good AI upscaling solution that can stabilise pixel shimmering with anti aliasing is another big bang for the buck. Sony seem to be focussing on these two issues as their selling point, because you can see the effect all the time, rather than just occasionally under certain conditions. Even a novice can spot the difference. You don't need a trained eye. Time will tell if they have been successful, but Sony have a good track record for punching above their weight in console design thanks to Mark Cerny.

[@defeqel6537]

Not to mention ghosting for temporal upscaling, though I guess that's part of pixel stability

[@marktackman2886]

@2:05:00 such good points about price creep

[@BoomTag]

I know the discussion is more fidelity focused, but I would like to see more focus on making 60 fps the standard, while keepong fidelity on par. Smoothness, low input paired with good upsampling seems like a decent way to go.

[@VideogamesAsArt]

Am I the only one who sees only big blur between 1:10:00 and 1:17:00? Was it somewhere mentioned why it is blurred?

[@niks660097]

19:55 people are forgetting games are doing 100x more work per-pixel than older games, most ps4/xbox one games had very limited dynamic lighting and most of it was baked, nowadays almost all lighting is dynamic either with lumen or raytracing, with PBR materials bordering offline rendering models.

[@TheGuruStud]

Fake news. Look at PC. 10 yr old games are vastly superior in IQ including lighting, reflections, etc. Devs are 100% coasting due to hardware power aka lazy. All of these new PS5 games look like garbage. It's no better than PS4 with a res bump and AA.

[@fVNzO]

Is that true though? That almost all lighting is RT? "Almost all lighting" means actual global illumination. Even in nvidia sponsored titles this is certainly not the case.

[@mikehawk6918]

It's hard to forget something that's simply not true. Ps4 era is RDR2, The Witcher 3, Battlefront, Cyberpunk 2077. ALL of these games have dynamic lighting, even on the PS4. They were just much better optimized for the hardware they had to run on.

[@nahoj.2569]

GTA 5 had a day/night cycle on a huge map in the PS3 era

[@PartyofNone]

this is an absolute dogshit take.

[@alarik95]

Sick collab

[@ennio5763]

Well, the 14th gen RPL-R was essentially a rebranded 13th gen RPL, so no it can't really be considered an "Additional gen" for the platform. It's just 13th, again.

[@bankaimaster999]

I know its way too early to hear anything but what about laptop? Will there an RTX 5090 laptop version? What would the specs be? I know it will be cut down for power management but cut down by how much?

[@TabalugaDragon]

most likely they'll do the same as this gen. Will call a desktop 5080 a "5090" on laptops and nobody will complain about it, because "laptops are always cut down", except those people forget of the existence of 1000 and 2000 series where they were both named and spec-ed the same

[@yeagyeag]

Love Tim's Insights! Two comments: About potential future upgrades for Framegen: Intel are still working on frame extrapolation, which would get rid of the latency penalty. If that pans out it might be a great argument for battlemage. About the future of OLED Monitors: I'm highly hopeful for tech like Gsync pulsar, or anyhting else that improves motion clarity. You need like 360hz (and fps!) on even IPS and OLED monitors (not to mention VA) to get motion clarity that matches 100 hertz on a CRT. Motion clarity matters so much for perception of smoothness and quality and spending more and more hardware performance to get to 240+ or other stupid framerates when the issue that would solve (partly) it at the source is the monitor. On that note I wonder if we'll get better versions of black frame insertion or similar tech in the future as well.

[@alanrobertson8626]

Looking forward to listening to this one when I'm fully awake after a coffee.

[@zodwraith5745]

I think something that gets missed on the upscaling debate is I feel it's MORE important on low end cards than high end cards. You can't look at it from an elitist point of view where you're unforgiving of less than perfect image quality. If you're shopping for a $300 GPU you can't afford to be a pixel-peeping snob. I have GPUs all the way from the high end to "can barely play it" levels through my family. Sure, if you have a 4090 you're going to think upscaling is useless at 1080p, but for the millions that still own older 60 and 70 class cards upscaling is a _necessity_ if you want to play any modern game and you're going to be FAR more forgiving of image quality if your only option is to put up with sub-30 fps or not play at all. DLSS is great to push my high end system to 165fps, but it's not the difference in being _playable_ or not. Whereas FSR is a godsend for our 970, 5700xt, 1660 super, 1070 and 1080ti. "Just buy a more powerful GPU" simply isn't an option for many people and 1080p upscaling is _VERY_ relevant to those people. When I have to try and keep 5-6 PCs updated it's pretty obvious why I care about extending the life of my hardware as far as possible. When you're getting to the point where games dip below 30-40fps you get REALLY tolerant of less than perfect image quality and FSR is still more than usable at 1080p. I just wish it looked as good as DLSS at 1080 and would absolutely effect my buying decision if I was shopping for a new 60 class card.

[@TopGunZero]

Can you do a video on the implications of PSSR in a PlayStation handheld based on the potential specs you've heard for the unit?

[@hishnash]

Multi sampling has an even higher performance hit these days as we tend to have much small (and more) trigs. Good MAA only does additional sampling on trig edges but if you trigs are tiny thee as t means your doing a lot more sampling across the entire display. And for PC GpUs you also have a much higher frame buffer size and bandwidth hit.

[@LurkingLarper]

Always love to see more Tim or Steve from HUB. They both stride the line with deep knowledge about the industry and tech with customer centered mentality that focuses on the value. Still kinda shocked that you have these caliber of guests appearing, but I guess next you pull Steve from Gamers Nexus or something...

[@TabalugaDragon]

Laptop 1070 was 5-10% behind desktop 1070, laptop 4070 is about 50% behind the desktop 4070. Meanwhile Tim: "laptops always lag behind desktops by roughly the same amount" Deep knowledge, right.

[@TabalugaDragon]

As for weight of gaming laptops - show me a single person who regularly carries their desktop with them to a cafe, to a plane and uses it in there and so on. People like you always talk about getting a desktop instead of a laptop, and yet none of such people carries their desktop. It's almost like people need a laptop for portability and you can't replace it with a desktop or something. But I guess it's just me. As for price - if someone really needs a laptop for office\school work but also wants to game - in addition to a desktop one would also need to get an office laptop. Good luck getting a laptop with a display just as good, battery life just as good (or many gaming laptops it ranges from 7 to 11 hours these days), keyboard just as good, upgradeable on RAM and storage, and so it wouldn't be super sluggish in basic tasks like browsing. Yeah right, "cheaper". I'm not talking about absurdly priced gaming laptops of 4-5 thousand dollars, I'm talking about reasonably priced ones like costing 1200-1600 dollars. Using it as a desktop+ as an office laptop(oh and they support type c charging these days) beats desktop + office laptop in pure value.

[@jaynorwood2]

PCIE6 accompanies CXL3.0 on the data center chips.

[@rubhan94]

That Coswheel ebike looks really cool, but the specs doesn't look legal in Norway 😅

[@timbro1]

The lack of unified memory architecture on PCs seems to be the problem

[@ClarkWasHere1]

On the TAA side of things: A lot of modern day rendering techniques take a lot of work to be compatible with things like MSAA, and that's the reason why it's so expensive to run in modern games. It's basically not worth the dev time to even implement anymore AFAIK.

[@PookaBot]

What if a graphics card had a small fast onboard SSD just for caching shaders so they don't need to be completely recompiled every time?

[@jaynorwood2]

Raptor Lake refresh ... Thunderbolt 5, Wifi7, 6400MT/s DDR5, 6.2GHz boost, 16 PCIE5 lanes with bifurcation. DLVR

[@marcm.]

It's always about planned obsolescence. The 3070 with 12 GB, or especially 16, would be a nightmare for Jensen. This is because he wants every single person to buy a new card every year and a half to two years. At the 500 to $600 level minimum... In other words he wants minimum of investment from individuals of 250 to $300 per year adjusted by inflation, and not adjusted by either economies of scale, or the dead Moors law

[@PookaBot]

Oh capitalism 🙄

[@AndreiSZS]

What are those talks about CPU and 30 frames? How many games are 30 only? And how many games are 30 because of the CPU?

[@AEspiral]

I like to apply both TAA and FXAA on top of each other, i really like the result, you can judge me.

[@BrophyMichael]

Is there some kind of rule on this podcast where you can't ask Tom questions? Coz there were some times for some insightful questions during this that just fell flat :( I really love the content btw, my criticism is minor and comes from a place of love ❤

[@greenbow7888]

Am surprised Tim said he needed to put The Talos Principle on x-many times supersampling. I found that I could not get Serious Sam 3 or 4 to alias. No matter what angle I looked at anything.

[@gunhaver12]

Nearly 3 hours! Noice 😎

[@lolmao500]

Todays GTC event should be interesting

[@stefanrenn-jones9452]

29:30 The upscaling technique used in fortnite UE5 is better than dlss, 1440p res upscaled to 4k (nanite and lumen enabled). 44:30 Other than cpu/ssd optimization, the "easy wins" for pc gaming are Dolby Vision and 32-bit 384khz audio mixing (7.1 surround and simulated 3d headphone audio).

[@Mio1570]

I do wonder about how much the delay of a AI-FSR has to do with also wanting to use the NPUs on the APUs (probably not on the Desktop CPUs) to accelerate it was well. Another thing might be them wanting a way to incorporate it into their HYPR-RX one button software solution, which might be able to do what you guys were talking about NVIDIA if they get all the pieces to work together right. Unfortunately Strix-Halo is probably going to be out late enough that I would probably wait to see what a hypothetical Zen6/RDNA5 successor would look like, especially since it might be out in time to be compatible with LPDDR6(x).

[@TrantaLocked]

I have always preferred no AA over any post-processing AA. We're now at a point where TAA is making games lose depth and look like 720p all because developers don't want to fix lighting glitches. Please stop forcing TAA on games. Bring back MSAA. It doesn't matter if most people will only use 2x or off, it's an option we still want.

[@IDKOKIDK]

If you have 1440P and higher monitor DLSS Quality is much better

[@TrantaLocked]

@@IDKOKIDK I compared normal internal res scaling vs DLSS in LotF at 1080p to 4K and found there isn't really a noticeable difference. DLSS and other AI upscalers are overrated because they came out at a time when games changed the output resolution (TV upscaling) rather than the internal resolution. What games really need is just a good internal scaling option as opposed to games like Cyberpunk 2077 which forces you to choose between output resolution or DLSS, obviously making DLSS look better. Surely this was a marketing ploy for DLSS considering most new games in 2020 already used internal scaling when changing reslution. There really isn't a better explanation for the biggest AAA game of 2020 not having what at the time was already a standard feature. At least games are catching on now, but we could've had good upscaling fifteen years ago.

[@dante19890]

No AA just look like shit, jaggies galore with image instability in motion

[@VoldoronGaming]

I like super sampling option in games

[@cracklingice]

AMD has had 'ray traced' audio since Polaris if I recall correctly.

[@arenzricodexd4409]

True audio. Another tech that AMD abandon.

[@kingkrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa4527]

​@@arenzricodexd4409 Didn't that just become TrueAudio Next? The solution that uses 25% of the GPU cores to process sound instead of a dedicated processor for Audio.

[@arenzricodexd4409]

@@kingkrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa4527 originally it was a feature on hawaii. They even have dedicated hardware inside the gpu for it. Then true audio next no longer have those dedicated hardware (starting with polaris onwards). Technically even AMD latest card can do true audio but the feature only ever used in one game: Thief 4. Then we never heard about it again.

[@delatroy]

In terms of end game monitors, would take a looooong time to need an upgrade to 8K or 16K from 4K OLED at 500hz+

[@digranes1976]

The extra 1gb of memory on the ps4 pro was for the UI so it could run at 4k.

[@lesserlogic9977]

Anyone else having issues with screen off mode in KZbin premium?, I don't have any issues with KZbin music, maybe my vpn, running the latest version of Android

[@frommatorav1]

I listened to the first half of this video, with screen off, with no issues. I'm not using a VPN but was on wifi doing yard work outside, wearing Bluetooth headphones with no issues.

[@chapstickbomber]

Monitors are what you actually look at and give you the experience. Makes sense to focus on what materially matters most.

[@robsshedoftech6457]

I managed to buy a great Dell Precision 7760 with an i9, 64GB of RAM and a Quadro A5000 with 16BGB of RAM for £1500UK inc. tax - that's around $1900. While predominantly for work, it does game surprisingly well with some games at max settings at 1440P.

[@christophermullins7163]

Guessing that's similar to a 4080 in performance. If so.. that is brilliant. Got my 6950 XT open box for $420.

[@robsshedoftech6457]

@@christophermullins7163 It's a mobile workstation so not as powerful as that - more like RTX3080 mobile, so still reasonable for most games at 1080P and 1440P.

[@christophermullins7163]

@@robsshedoftech6457 well I'm sure it's perfect for work. I use my GBs for Alan Wake and Hogwarts and stuff.

[@Fred_Gilbert]

@2:06:10 Tim is correct that inflation accounts for low and mid-range price increases. However, it also sounds like he's saying this is true for the high-end, others have said this for sure and it's patently untrue. The 4080 should have launched at ~$730(call it $750), not $1200. Instead of 21.9% of inflation, they went up 100%, they doubled the price. The high end prices have become utterly absurd. Trouble is, we're screwed into buying them if we want good picture quality and playability. Let's also not forget that Nuhvidia has shifted the tiers and their respective performance levels/dies.

[@Hybred]

I think what Tim doesn't udnerstand about this discussion is that super-samping isn't the only alternative to TAA, theirs a ton of different low-cost AA techniques and while they have their own flaws so does TAA, none of them are perfect, so until we get something that's perfect gamers should be allowed to pick their poison. Anti-aliasing is a balance between effective anti-aliasing, low perf cost, and clarity - you can only have two at a time. Also it's caused a massive reduction in image quality, if someone feels differently I'd assume its because they're either less sensitive to the cons of TAA or they're gaming at 4k. TAA causes a lot of motion blurring and my motion sensitive eyes notice it so much I get eye fatigue playing modern games now. This issue is also an accessibility issue just as much as it is about enhancing graphics. Also TAA is a catch-22. Games without TAA aren't that aliased. Games that have TAA with it turned off tend to be extremely aliased, why? Because TAA allows developers to be lazy and make their games as aliased as possible cause TAA will just clean it up at the end, which means we get aggressive TAA, smudgy graphics and other techniques are ineffective. If a game is built around TAA, TAA will look better most of the time. That does not mean it is better though. If you built your game around not using it, or treated it as an additive to the game & nothing else it would look better because then you'd have your cake and eat it to (clarity & low aliasing at the same time)

[@xchillkillx]

As a GTX 1060 3GB buyer i went to a used RTX 3070 for 235€ shipped

[@ChristmasCrustacean1]

50:00 I still think that AMD intended the 7900XTX to compete with the 4090 and originally planned to price it at $1199 and when it fell short of the performance expectations they cut the price to $999 and then didn't consider to cut the price of the 7900XT which was originally meant to compete with the 4080 for $899

[@Spencerwalker21]

Could amd add a 32gb ssd caching system to tgere GPUs for unreal engine stuttering issues. I don't know probably wouldn't work just spit balling I'm a noob.

[@intotheunknown4466]

Your guest mentioned prices of old low end gpus were cheaper, the main one he mentioned being the 1060 6gb but I did a little research looking back the last 3 generations from Nvidia and prices were the same or more than the 4060 which is 299 and this is before adjusting for inflation. From what I can gather the 1060 msrp was 299, the 2060 350, and the 3060, 329. Correct me if wrong.

[@mikehawk6918]

The problem is that the 4060 is actually a 4050, and should be priced as such.

[@IDKOKIDK]

Nvida were hoping people were all like you, make all the models perform like the model beneath and nobody would notice, but we all did, but not you

[@punkerverse]

To be fair, the 4060 is about 5-10% slower than the 3060 ti, uses almost 100 watts less of power, and costs almost 25% less msrp at release. Prices were atleast 10% higher across the economy when the 4060 released and yet it was still 25% cheaper and 35% if you take that into account. Im not a fan of Nvidia and own a 6800 xt, along with a 4060, but your just whining about something thats not even true while accusing someone based on that victim mentality your storys based on. And the 4060 has frame generation thats actually not that bad and is going to improve over the years for another 30-40% performance boost.@@IDKOKIDK

[@defeqel6537]

Inflation doesn't matter (as much) if it doesn't affect the price of the components; e.g. VRAM is the cheapest it's ever been

[@arenzricodexd4409]

​@@mikehawk6918problem is those AD107 is built on $17, 000 5nm wafer. That's why AMD not willing to use 5nm on 7600XT. Instead they use 6nm which is another variant of 7nm.

[@gamingmarcus]

Listening to Tim talk about how Radeon is more focused on short term gain rather than a long term strategy made me wonder if this could actually be an AMD issue, not a Radeon. There is only so much TSMC supply available across CPUs, consoles, datacenter chips and GPUs so what if they need to reach the highest possible margins to even justify allocating silicon ressources to their products?

[@paintsplatkid13]

Can't wait for you to have Bryan from TechYesCity on again. He's by far my favorite guest.

[@gametime4316]

@ 4:30 a TB of RAM at a in a low-mid range laptop ? what did u smoke?

[@bionicseaserpent]

the "20 years into the future" blunt

[@blunet]

currently running 4K upscaled with FSR3 to 8K at 135ppi, at about 80cm viewing distance. there will never be any need for native 8K rendering, except maybe running at native 8K without any AA (but i very much believe ML-upscaling will make that irrelevant within a few years)

[@dante19890]

you could just run 4k native instead lol

[@blunet]

but why? that just looks worse.

[@xtoper21]

I need the PS5 Pro running at 1440@120 and that would make my OLED sing.

[@dante19890]

1440p 60 maybe

[@xtoper21]

@@dante19890 PS5 already does 1440@60 maybe just maybe the PS5 pro can do a lil more

[@dante19890]

Im a bit suprised that the gpu upgrade is only 45 percent. It was 100 percent going from ps4 to ps4 pro. When many games are running in 720p in performance mode the extra gpu grunt is very much needed.

[@mikem2253]

Look at the leaps from RDNA2 to RDNA3 (lack thereof). 45% is still good though considering other things like bandwidth are being increased. Goal is probably to get everything to a minimum 1080p to be upscaled with PSSR.

[@randyrrs7028]

​@@mikem2253 The PSSR upscaling tech will be the saving grace because jumping to 4K native is a massive drain on the GPU but if using FSR3/PSSR you would upscale to 4K and hit 60fps on most games, it’s so smooth you really wouldn’t know it’s not 4K native

[@tw751]

Thanks for the episode and regarding the "holy grail monitor" i would say we already have them in the form of the Lg 48" 120hz 4k Oled tvs :D. Sure they are not perfect bat man are they good and you will enjoy them for a long long time. And all the prolems listed at 2:29:21 are none existant for me BUT hdmi problems on the other hand are super dumb and annoying. For example if i turn on a neon light in the other room the voltage spike from the light switch causes the TV to switch inputs away from HDMI or someties the ground shield of the hdmi port has a positive voltage on it... But otherwise we live in the golden age of Oled if you ask me. 😊

[@GP-hb9cf]

No way man, I don’t want a screen bigger than 27 inch … idk how people sit so close to huge screens like 32inch and higher as their pc

[@delatroy]

@@GP-hb9cf You can get 240hz 4K / 480hz 1080p which would last for maybe 10 years

[@blunet]

well i moved to a second hand gpu. that market has exploded over the last few years, back in the (pre-)pascal days no-one bought second hand. i guess this allows higher ASPs for GPUs, but it also drastically reduces TAM.

[@Joeybatz33]

I think PS5 Pro with the 3.85ghz CPU it will be able to hit Ai Upscaled Dragon's Dogma 2 & GTA 6 at 60fps. 1080p upscaled to 1440p or something like that

[@Loundsify]

I'm fairly certain it'll hit 4Ghz if not 4.2Ghz

[@christophermullins7163]

What about Steve from gamers nexes? My guess is his ego would not let him "prop up" the mlid podcast. 😂🤣

[@puffyips]

huh

[@frommatorav1]

​@Pikkoroo He's saying that Steve at Gamers Nexus won't come Tom's Broken Silicon because thinks he's too good for it. I wouldn't agree that he is but it could be why he hasn't been a guest yet.

[@puffyips]

@@frommatorav1too good? Maybe too busy or too humble I heavily doubt it’s ego

[@frommatorav1]

@@puffyips I was pointing out what the first comment was saying. He hasn't done a lot of collaborations but he has been on with PC World (Gordon) and Wendell. I enjoyed those videos, so I would be happy to see him on Broken Silicon. I won't pretend to know why he hasn't been on before. He might want to know Tom better first or he might be too busy. I'm not saying his ego is too big but I don't think he's too humble, either.

[@ctjmaughs]

Are we going to stacked chiplets from AMD soon?

[@nivea878]

Arrow lake needs to be a banger otherwise i have to wait longer till nova lake😢

[@GabrielCarvalho-gd8op]

I have to disagree with Tim on the OLED vs bright office. I have a Alienware DWF with a huge ass bright window behind it and I never felt the monitor wasn't bright enough. Quite the opposite, I wish the presets allowed me to change brightness because it is too bright. I'm using the true black smart hdr preset, not the 1000nits one. Also, bright environments were never an issue with OLED TV's. I don't understand why it suddenly became a issue with a monitor. Oh, and while we are at it, the same to burn-in. Normal TV content has plenty of static elements and I haven't seen a single issue on a 5-6yo OLED panel

[@arknia0891]

I agree with Tim, that AMD could make some sort of geometry/texture feature. Where they have some hardware accelerated Nanite competitor. They could even be like "Sure nvidia can use Nanite, but our feature is 4 times as fast and uses half the energy." If nvidia goes for lighting with RTX, AMD can go hard on geometry.

[@CalgarGTX]

For the anti aliasing discussion, as someone who was always infuriated by jaggies and the shimmering caused by MSAA I think, at 1440p, TXAA is a very solid compromise for image quality/no shimmering/low perf hit. FXAA was definitely blurry & washed out colors garbage not worth using in most of the games it's available, and with the hamstrung perf we are getting with cards these days super sampling is totally out of the question if you aren't rocking a 4090 sadly...

[@playground2137]

Thank you

[@joshieecs]

just rendering at 4k with no AA has much less jaggies than those old games on a 1024x786 CRT. though, lower fps on a CRT was more tolerable. but even a postprocess AA like smaa or fxaa does fair to smooth jaggies at 4k. also dldsr is a great compromise of quality, performance, and AA, i wish nvidia would update it to work without having to change desktop resolution or use deprecated exclusive full screen.