Bookshelf vs. floor standing loudspeakers

[@marcusaurelius2988]

Paul is a good man sharing his wisdom and years of experience in sound reproduction. Thank you , Paul!

[@jeffreyepiscopo]

I'd like to add something. If you're working with a specific budget, sometimes bookshelf speakers are the way to go. For example, if you have $2000, you can get tower speakers in the B&W 600 series line, which is their low end line. If you instead get bookshelf speakers, with that same money you can get speakers in their 700 series, which is a much more refined sound. Same thing with a lot of brands. $2000 with KEF will get you a pair of towers from their lowest line or a pair of bookshelf speakers from the line up. So if you've got a specific budget in mind and you don't plan on adding any more, and you've got a smaller room, it might be worth getting bookshelves instead of towers.

[@ryanray6215]

Yes , Definitely bookshelf for a smaller rooms , and floor standing for larger ones .

[@janinapalmer8368]

Jeffrey Episcopo ~ I totally agree ! A very good comment

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

This is really good advice, Jeffery. Thanks for sharing.

[@kitieas]

So you would recommend the 706 s2 vs 603 floorstanding speakers for a medium size room?

[@cristiansallai]

I have a question that I did not see touched on here (or elsewhere) What do you think is better.. a cheaper floorstanding VS a more expensive bookshelf? This goes exactly in the direction you are talking about. I am exactly in this situation now. I own a pair of Magnat Monitor supreme 1002 (cost somewhere around 1250USD or so .. so on the really cheaper side) .. and I would like to replace them with the Klipsch RP 600m's (cost around .. 500 USD) .. What I am afraid of is that I will end up with a downgrade and not an upgrade,.. (only because Bookshelf are weaker than floorstanding. One thing.. I have a sub. And I live in an apartment building.. so not a house (so I can not play them, at crazy loud volume).. so what do you think? Will it be an upgrade or downgrade? Any feedback is appreciated.

[@TheDecguy]

Paul “More room for the woofer to do its woofing”. Thank you I laughed half the evening.

[@MESSENGER-OF-JESUS-CHRIST]

Excellent answer! After all my mistakes: (journey) the BIGGEST floor standing speakers I can afford plus a QUALITY subwoofer to compliment the bottom frequencies is the way to go!

[@Finn-McCool]

I always use the vowels as my sounds for the different drivers. Bing-tweeter Bang-mid Bong-woofer Bung-sub woofer Sorry Beng, you're not needed in this thought exercise.

[@Merlin-wo1kj]

From my years of audio the more drivers you have the easier it is to get a full sound. I've tried every combination but nothing beats towers with dual REL/Sumiko type subs running in stereo for true full sound.

[@nicktaylor7680]

I have a sub and bookshelf system and once set up properly am happy with the sound. However another advantage I can see with floor standers is using a 3 way design as not many bookshelf speakers are 3 way. I feel 3 way speakers offer a smoother, fuller mid-range in general.

[@trog69]

I mostly agree. It's far easier for my L810's to combine with the sub freq. since they have dual-8" drivers. The Dynaco A-25's I had previously did a great job as well, but these two 8.25" drivers go down much lower than the a-25's one 10".

[@el34glo59]

Three ways are overrated, with speakers that is

[@rayvanoer]

Hi Paul, i've been following you for a long time now. And I wan't to thank you for the time you're making, to answer all the questions you get. I'm learning a lot from it. Love you're video's, thanks again Paul Greetings Rémon The Netherlands

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Thanks for watching, Ray!

[@resonantconsciousness9248]

The bigger the cabinet the better, go sealed, good times will be had.

[@Saturn2888]

This is the answer I was looking for! I kept wondering why high-quality bookshelf speakers didn't sound as good even with a subwoofer as lower-quality towers with or without a sub. I kept hearing from people that they use bookshelf speakers, no sub, and listen to music no problem. This whole time I assumed I was missing something and probably shouldn't have bought my towers. Now seeing this review, towers still makes a lot of sense with that larger area to "woof". Not to mention, they also come with more drivers and can sometimes be bi-amped where highs and lows are separated. Lastly, I didn't think about it until watching your video, but by the time you buy stands for your bookshelf speakers, you're usually closing the gap between bookshelf and tower speakers. That's why they're probably called bookshelf speakers. To retain that price, you're supposed to have something to set them in.

[@dbronx347]

"high-quality bookshelf speakers didn't sound as good even with a subwoofer as lower-quality towers with or without a sub." - This statement is too general to be true. I've had bookshelf speakers with much better base than a lot of "lower-quality" towers out there.

[@turbo2288]

Much more than that. First it's easier to design and make bookself speakers sound good than floor-standers, they usually have good details and transparency, however it is much harder to design and build good full range floor-standing speakers, but usually floor-stander give you more "density", more "dynamic and scale" and more "being there" which bookshelves cannot provide. It also depends how many tweeters, mid range drivers, mid bass woofers, and passive radiators in floor-standers, remember there is no substitution for amount of air they the moves.

[@xsestevez]

This was excellent. Thank you.

[@dbronx347]

What about a tower vs a bookshelf speakers that goes down to the same frequency, say 50 hz. The subwoofer crossover would then be set to the same frequency. Which speaker would be better then? Are bookshelf better for imaging?

[@stevenoconnor5693]

I feel you can set up a great set of stand mounts placed well with subwoofers and give floor standers a run for their money

[@sudd3660]

i would there is more to gain with bookshelf speakers, its easier to find sealed enclosures with bookshelf speakers, you get a lot more for you money. you can opt for no subwoofer and get much better speaker compared to floorstander for the same money, except for a little less bass. even bookshelf with subwoofer i think that the bass is better then floorstanders, because most of them are ported and bass is not best where the main speakers are placed, and with subwoofer you have more options and controls to get better results.

[@cristiansallai]

I have a question that I did not see touched on here (or elsewhere) What do you think is better.. a cheaper floorstanding VS a more expensive bookshelf? I am exactly in this situation now. I own a pair of Magnat Monitor supreme 1002 (cost somewhere around 1250USD or so .. so on the really cheaper side) .. and I would like to replace them with the Klipsch RP 600m's (cost around .. 500 USD) .. What I am afraid of is that I will end up with a downgrade and not an upgrade,.. (only because Bookshelf are weaker than floorstanding. One thing.. I have a sub. And I live in an apartment building.. so not a house (so I can not play them, at crazy loud volume).. so what do you think? Will it be an upgrade or downgrade? Any feedback is appreciated.

[@VirtualTourPhotographer]

And we know you care about cleanliness too :) Spotted the Windex in the background...

[@dbronx347]

So, would it be fair to say that the lower you can set the low-pass filter on your subwoofer, the better?

[@cp070476]

I cross my subs off at 200hz. Subs handle drums far better than any speaker driver. There built for it!

[@carmenandthedevil2804]

Larger speakers generally create larger instruments and a larger soundstage, sub or not.

[@turbo2288]

Most people don't understand that

[@karthikeyan-lv5on]

A helix processor in numerous ceiling tweeters, wall midranges, floor double woofers and front stereo sub woofers!?

[@dandonna3904]

Is it easier for a amplifier (60 watts example) drive a floor standing over book shelf because of room for speaker to breathe (but) amplifier has to drive more speakers Help!!

[@googoo-gjoob]

if the ohms & efficiency are equal....more drivers = more work.

[@dandonna3904]

@@googoo-gjoob I buying Marantz M-CR612 60 watts into 6 ohms speakers are 8 ohms

[@abelponce9299]

There is no replacement for displacement 😁

[@endrizo]

That was a silly petrolhead phrase from the 60s...japanese cars destroyed it decades ago.

[@terrywho22]

@@endrizo Don't tell that to the Dodge Demon.

[@automachinehead]

6" tower vs 6" bookshelf not much of a difference except for an extended LF reach about a quarter of an octave lower and even so, it's still useless cuz both are about -10/12db in that range. Either way, you still need a separate woofer with its own amp to produce a clean output in the

[@mikedinno8413]

I don't agree. I agree with Audioholics. Most people have their crossover set to 80HZ. Any decent bookshelf will have no issues handling the bass. You take a bookshelf and a floor standing speaker of the same price range and most of the time the bookshelf will have better midrange and vocals.

[@Sure69]

Right. I too set my sub at 80 Hz. My bookshelfs can go gown to 45Hz. But the bass is not loud enough. After repeated testing with various types of music and movie watching, I arrived at this sweet spot. I played with the gain on the sub a lot to achieve a smooth transition. The main advantage I feel with the bookshelfs is the lifelike midrange for vocals the quality which is audible only in expensive towers, with a seperate enclosure for the mid range.

[@RumblestripDotNet]

So Paul, since the Sprout speakers will be bookshelves (we’ve seen the prototypes in the background) will you offer a matched sub to go with it?

[@janinapalmer8368]

Rumblestrip.NET ~ only suggestions!

[@wesw9586]

Here's hoping they have a config for a stereo pair of subs!

[@mesri3]

But isn't it true that unless the music or the song itself has sub-woofer frequencies, you don't actually need a sub? and isn't it also true that a lot of music isn't really recorded/played with sub-woofer frequencies in the first place thereby largely nullifying the need for a sub?

[@claudec2588]

Interesting. But if your floor speakers go down to 40hz do you really need more base? Perhaps it's a matter of taste.

[@littlegandhi1199]

Generally with music not below 35 from my experience but movies will go lower so I might buy a 18hz sub or just go down to 1hz with a transducer to vibrate my chair lol woo

[@user-a33kixd2wq44]

@@littlegandhi1199 lmao😂

[@rickc661]

' do it's woofen' yes that's where it's at. given that todays ' bookshelves' usually have only 6.5 or even 5.5 in mid/bass they just can not move the air required. back in the old days, Dynaco 25's had ten inch bass. EPI 100, AR 6 - 8 inch. so with modern floor stand towers, Ya can put 2 or 3 - 5.5 or 6.6 in the same box, engineer tricky crossovers, internal ports etc. I have both, completely switchable. My old '78 Koss 1020 floor standing 10 in, 4 in mid , one of the first ' Thiele / Small designs >still sound very very good to me, compared to high rated ( 'stereophile'; google test) KEF Q360.

[@puttyputty123]

It is not a given that a person will prefer floorstanding over bookshelf. Personally I have always been more impressed by bookshelf speakers - from my experience they "disappear" easier in to the soundstage despite being on stands or whatnot.

[@giangvu7902]

If the room is right (usually smaller rooms), many bookshelf speakers can hit those low notes really well. Adding a subwoofer in such situations would be cumbersome and not worth having to run all the extra cables. With that said, I would always get higher end bookshelf speakers over a floorstander if the price is the same. You can always add on a subwoofer later. Prefer REL subs, they're great!

[@BlankBrain]

If you insist on having bookshelf speakers, at least get two subwoofers and place the bookshelf speakers above them. You may be able to simulate full-range speakers. My secondary speakers are bookshelf speakers, but they have 12" woofers. They're OK in a small room for non-critical listening.

[@trog69]

I could only afford one sub, so I made a compromise by using a pair of ADS L810's as near-field monitors. They get down to the 35-40htz range so they are easily combined with the sub. Wish I had two subs, but that'll be down the road a bit and the one is doing a great job so far.

[@BlankBrain]

@@trog69 I didn't mean to be flippant. We all make compromises. I wish I'd worded my comment differently. I know that low frequencies aren't supposed to be directional. But when I'm listening, I can tell where the low bass is coming from. Maybe I hear the phase relationships, and not the actual source.

[@JukeboxAlley]

Floorstanders are better in every way, simple as that, as long as it's a decent brand/series, unless you throw vintage "book shelf speakers" in the mix, which are usually all one needs. If u need a mnimalist setup though then that makes sense to get modern tiny speakers.

[@NaveenKumar-uh2gk]

Great answer paul .......love you

[@Paulmcgowanpsaudio]

Thanks! Appreciate you watching and being part of the PS Audio Family.

[@ThinkingBetter]

Reminds me of how some Bose systems have combined super tiny speakers with a subwoofer causing even worse bass than what Paul is talking about for bookshelf speakers.

[@scottking2821]

The best thing Bose do is marketing. I’ve had a 5.1 Accoustimass system for years, which the LFE on the bass box processor (more apt than calling it a sub) was ok (just) for movies, but for music listening, you miss out on so much. There is a massive frequency gap in the mid/high range as well. I did a side by side with VAF i90’s with time aligned concentric drivers (Australian made). It’s like removing earplugs.

[@ThinkingBetter]

Scott King Yeah, those accoustimass systems with tiny satellite speakers really tried to defy simple laws of physics but clearly they couldn’t. They sort of represent the extreme case of Paul’s point in this video.

[@ixfxi]

All of these generalizations can land you in a lot of trouble, so take it with a grain of salt. Compare Infinity's older designs, their SM series were straight trash. Large floorstanding speakers with low-quality drivers, all designed for guys playing music at loud levels while simultaneously smashing beer cans on their foreheads. The SM series could never compare with the Reference, and the Reference could never compare with the Kappa. So like someone else already commented, it all depends on the size of the room. Small rooms and bookshelf speakers work great. Larger rooms need floor standing speakers. Apples with apples, you'll generally get better quality sound and louder volume from a floor standing speaker - thats assuming they are of the same quality. Going with a small bookshelf + sub combo is essentially what Infinity did with their older Modulus speakers. Its a sub-satellite setup where you are roughly covering the majority of frequencies. Roughly.

[@DismasM]

A better question, budget aside, might be that since bookshelf's on stands generally take up as much space as a floor stander, so why not get the tower? (Desktop rigs are different, obv...)

[@alt1579]

The room that they're placed in will make the difference. I traded in my floorstanders for bookshelfs because my livingroom was a boombox in itself. I could trim the added subwoofer to blend in perfectly. The sound was so much better than I could ever achieve with the floorstanders, even though the floorstanders would greatly outperform the bookshelf speakers in a proper acoustically trimmed room. Oh and here's the kicker: the bookshelf speakers with stands take up more space than the floorstanders I had. Plus sub.

[@DismasM]

@@alt1579 That is a great answer to a question I've often thought about. I love small speakers--I'm trying to come up with a reason to get a pair of LS3/5a (heard a stunning pair of Graham Chartwells the other day) but I've never understood the reasoning of using a small speaker if you're giving up the same real estate... you make a compelling case ...

[@stonefree1911]

Sprout!!! Where da speakers Paul!

[@salmonline]

Because... more.

[@googoo-gjoob]

after all...this is 'Merica

[@johnsweda2999]

You can have the subwoofer built into the speaker cabinet of a floor stander. Plus if you have the big enough driver you can get the frequencies down to to 20 Hz or lower I mean heck you can get a 3 inch driver to go down to 40 Hz

[@terrywho22]

"you can get a 3 inch driver to go down to 40 Hz..." Not efficiently though... but I get what you are saying.

[@johnsweda2999]

@@terrywho22 well yes you're not gonna fill the room with sound but for near-field listening it sounds just as good

[@NeilDSouza7]

0:59 Notice... Paul has been loosing weight !!! Yeah 😁😁😁 In my opinion ...I guess Paul likes Sub Woofers a lot and that's cool... If you look at the setup in the room .... Ideally and Practically it should sound and feel roomy . As for my BS Speakers they still haven't been able to get a 'STAND' Rule of the thumb 👍: Just Enjoy the music..

[@janinapalmer8368]

Most people I know are tired of the low and often unimpressive low end response of their floorstanders and only add a hugely over powered sub to provide kick arse bass ... especially at party times ..!

[@littlegandhi1199]

Yeah most floorstanders are pretty crappy and cheap. I bought 10 year old Klipsch towers and they are 600w Max and ported so I've never even thought about buying a sub I just bought 8 more ;)

[@johnholmes912]

depends on the room; for small rooms stand mounts are better....................oh my paul box resonance is what you need to avoid...stop pushing subs they are not needed....in fact they cause timing problems

[@jamiemcneil9462]

Bookshelf speakers are for kids. Floor standing speakers are for adults … hope this helps.

[@ped-away-g1396]

you need a sub but you don't wanna hear it... yep, makes sense. can't believe after all this time Paul's still walking in circles around this ethereal sub thing. this is what happens when you mash things together and come up with your own theories based on your own hunch.

[@xanderguldie]

He means you don't hear a seperate sub. I think you are smart enough to know this and you are basically trolling

[@gamerpaddy]

you hear and feel the extended low-end and you add depth to a room, but you cant locate where it comes from. if you could, your sub is a huge pile of shit. it should sound like its just there not its coming from over there.

[@ped-away-g1396]

@@xanderguldie i know what he meant but his solution is just nonsense, thus, walking in circles.

[@ecyfoto]

Ped-Away-G Paul’s referring to not hearing the sub as another speaker alongside your main speakers. The sub needs to become integrated with the primary speakers. I’ve succeeded in doing so with floor standing (tower) speakers that already have good bass response down to 40hz with two subs that get me down to a solid 25hz without “seeing” the subs. I’m surprised you don’t get what he’s describing.

[@ThinkingBetter]

Paul meant to say that a subwoofer should not reveal itself as an object in your soundstage but rather magically extend the lower base without you being able to hear where that bass is coming from. Our ability to locate objects in a soundstage is near zero at the lowest bass frequencies and that’s why you can get away with a single subwoofer. When a subwoofer makes distortion or actual audio at higher frequencies, you can sense where it is. Bose has made systems with tiny satellite speakers where the subwoofer does too much higher bass frequencies and it makes you able to notice the subwoofer location. Perhaps you are new to audio.