Psychopathy vs Sociopathy

[@Dana-kh5lj]

The reason we're so "fascinated" with them is because a lot of us have had our lives ruined by one (or more) of these people. We want to know how they came to be the monster that devastated us and ripped our hearts out. It's not just a general curiosity. It's a search for the truth so we can heal.

[@karentonks7581]

Not wrong there Dana , sorry you went through such a traumatic experience ..we are never quite the same again x

[@Dana-kh5lj]

@@karentonks7581 thank you. I hope you're ok.

[@karentonks7581]

@@Dana-kh5lj Ok dana , Getting used to the fact that i'll be permanently confused by some things , how about you?

[@Dana-kh5lj]

@@karentonks7581 be grateful you can't relate. It must be a miserable existence.

[@karentonks7581]

i like this man because he does not stigmatize disordered people and that he understands lots come from child trauma and abuse ..it's very refreshing

[@alinamin6393]

OMG, I’ve been studying these types of ASP, and this is the 1st and only time I’ve seen a professional actually speak about Sociopaths with such understanding of its true cause and nature.... you are correct

[@MrTheVolcom]

Criminal psychology, my favorite area.

[@AdaptiveApeHybrid]

Psychopaths are not neccesarily criminals! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@MrTheVolcom]

@@AdaptiveApeHybrid I never said that...

[@MrTheVolcom]

@@laurabello8176 Nosy

[@B--sf9dy]

Not neccesarily😌

[@DoGmAnGuY1758]

I'm one of the people you talked about who are fascinated with school and spree shootings, I don't look up to any of them in any way and do consider their actions unforgivable, but I also think there can be value in looking deeper at certain incidents (the one I focus on the most is Columbine, specifically one of the shooters, Dylan Klebold), mainly the ones that clearly have more significance in terms of the phenomena of spree killing. I always sort of hoped you might do an episode like you did with Elliot except for Dylan Klebold from Columbine because his writings and behavior are intriguing to me but I knew it was always a long shot. If you have any more questions for someone with these kinds of opinions feel free to ask.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks for the sharing, Doc. Yeah, I don't know what to do about that. On one hand, it is interesting to study individuals like that, but on the other hand, we are likely encouraging copy-cats.

[@cynthiaallen9225]

Unfortunately, a lot of parents of these kids don't want to talk. One of the Columbine kid's mothers has and has given a TED talk. We do need to know what shapes them, I agree.

[@English3Muffin]

Something that really helped me humanize tragedies is when I started watching trials and seeing the impact statements. It changes the perspective of “only x amount of people dead and only x amount of people injured” when you hear how these tragedies have personally impacted them and how large the ripple effect is per person. I’ve been moving away from the fascination of true crime for awhile- it was a big part of my childhood and adolescence, but the more you humanize the people involved, the harder it is to consume. That said, I’ve been a victimized by people I loved who either displayed zero empathy in any of the interactions I had with them or saw them have with others, or people who caused great harm to me who seem to display some empathy in situations other than what they did to me, so I still have a deep fascination in individuals with disorders who could cause the kind of harm I have been the victim of. Something that comes up when you experience trauma inflicted by others is what could you have done to prevent what happened? Were there red flags you didn’t see? How can you avoid this in the future and how can you avoid other harm? And what causes people to behave that way? What causes people to harm others. How come some people experience trauma and inflict it, and some people could not possibly imagine causing the same harm that was done to them? This was a really interesting episode!

[@sarahifield3209]

dr honda one of the most wholistic in touch podcasts ive heard to date from you. all have diff flavours but this one spread deep and wide. thank you

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks, Sarah!

[@Ardithel]

I think the answers to both of these questions are the same thing: the need to protect ourselves. Rather than a suppressed desire to eliminate our enemies, I think our fascination with ASPD definitions and our tendancy to click on news reports of killings and deaths are so we can learn how to survive. Why did those people die? What should I do or not do so I don't die? Even if it's subconscious, we still do it, like why people don't want to buy a house where people were murdered- it's a connection that we don't want to have for a pattern that may not exist, but we see it nonetheless.

[@toericabaker]

Wow this was a smart comment

[@sunnypie2]

You’ve made many interesting points and explained the difference very well! It’s sad, but it’s a jungle out there!

[@ryeomi5900]

As a Psychology student, this one is very interesting. Love it ❤ Newbie.here

[@sofiaalmeida3770]

Heck, the worst killers and rapists get fan mail and are actually married in prison, how about that? There's an interesting subject to me. People are weird lol. Great podcast!

[@bonnielee7134]

At 28:26 you ask, why are we so fascinated with these distinctions ( antisocial, sociopathy and psychopathy ) it’s not that we are fascinated. It’s that we are confused. Dr. Honda, could you please direct me in how I can find out the baseline of what is normal human behavior? I come from a family of sociopaths and narcissist and we were all disfunctional, fighting children even into late age like 47 till I did research and broke away. Part of my problem is naivety due to hanging in my crib, multiple disabilities, physical and mental, poverty and dependency. Now I would like to find out what is normal to make my studies on this subject easier to grasp. I have an outdated college book on abnormal psychology that I found online for 7 bucks but it’s extremely basic. Not meaty at all. How do I get good book? Thanks!

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

I'm sorry you went through that. If you want to learn about psychopathy, I would just continue to read as much material as you can. It takes years of study to comprehend the condition and its associations. Many clinicians with doctoral degrees don't understand it, so it's not easy to grasp.

[@bonnielee7134]

Ok. Thanks!

[@hesdeadnow4505]

I'm fascinated 😂😂😂😂

[@bonnielee7134]

Dr. Honda, you are right. It takes time to study and comprehend. I guess I was frustrated because I had the need to know quickly the answers. If you keep plugging at it, you will finally get rewarded with good books. I am currently reading, “stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist how to end the drama and get on with life” by Margalis Fjelstad. This one is good because it starts off by describing their behaviors and how they are similar. I decided to go ahead and spend the money on some books and I can resell them to get some money back. You have to get out of your cheap mindset and just get the right tools. That’s going to be the book, “ without conscious” by Robert Hare, and, “malignant self love” by Sam Vaknin. I also got, “Puzzling people: the labyrinth of the psychopath” by Thomas Sheridan. Also, as time goes by I am healing. I am getting my confidence back. It takes time. Learning as much as you can helps in the healing process. It will also insure that you do not attract these creatures back into your life. I reread my message up there and I am blaming naivety and disability as the reason why I stayed in my trap. But it’s not that. Anybody can fall for this dysfunction for many reasons. Namely, because they were raised in dysfunction. Also the sociopath can pretend for a long time to be normal and then slowly gaslight you and break you down till you are just pulled in. It’s embarrasing to think that you lived as a human shit bag to some inner-tortured soul, creature thing. Very creepy and I’m mad at mysel for it. But now I just try to look at it that I’ve been through a strange experience and there’s still time left to have some sort of a normal life. One thing that would be good is to get into a support group of other survivors of this. I still need to look into that.

[@JAYMOAP]

Bonnie Lee, people like yourself have greater risk to develop PTSD or coping mechanism where your narcissistic tendencies are repressed and you become compensatory. In many case it's similar to covert narcissistic tendencies without seriously disturbed pathology. Usually the self awareness level indicates this, the more higher the narcissistic spectrum, the individual less self aware as the ego function fixated and unable to understand his or her own pathology.

[@AdeptGuidance]

22:00 This song analogy causes me to think about how Natural Law can remove the blurriness of personal opinion and instead clearly, concretely define what is real and what isn't. For instance, morality isn't nearly as relative as culture would have us believe, it's actually quite clear.

[@alisalauzon9291]

Very well done ! You explain things very clearly . Thank you !

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks, Alisa!

[@audreymirandarusselman]

Love this one! Thank you always for your in depth discussions, it helps me keep an open mind!

[@Redflowers9]

It's purely based on a theoretical prediction of how these people's mind's work and their motives, which is impossible to really know based on behaviour, without there always being the risk of a possible counter-example to object with, at least currently, or without some far-future crystal ball technology, say an extremely precise brain scanning device, some system-sufficient and exhaustive knowledge and mapping for both creating a computer friendly definition of the given labelled levels of psychopathy and the the required variables for determining the question of where the person is on that defined spectrum and most probably an extremely powerful supercomputer to calculate it all. Despite this, we still have an ability to read people and gage what their motivations are likely to be and it still helps to use these concepts as guidelines in our interpretations and decisions.

[@Kill3r12341]

You just earned a new subscriber my friend. Have a good day Doc

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks!

[@coopersaint1]

You deserve a lot more subscribers and views, very good quality content. Definitely subscribing!

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks, Cooper! Yeah, our main audience is on podcast feeds and Patreon, not KZbin.

[@cynthiaallen9225]

I think in part, the interest is there because we want to understand it. At least I do. Most people can't understand how a kid could shoot up a school. Knowing their background is useful to possible prevention. Same for ASPD, etc.

[@marleneg7794]

What balanced, intelligent and thoughtful observations. Thank you.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

And thank you!

[@randomtree7295]

I'm writing this story and one of my 3 protagonists go through this character arc where she realises her abusive behaviour is wrong when the same stuff is done to her and practically spelled out to her. It's kind of a character trait of hers, where she won't realise what she or others are doing is wrong until it happens to her. Is this accurate to the fact she is a sociopath or is it stretching the boundaries?

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

It's possible that that person would be labeled as a sociopath by a clinician, with more information and a full assessment.

[@randomtree7295]

Her name is Fiona and she is a Fairy living in the 1940's. She has endured a lot of verbal abuse when she was younger from her parents especially her mother due to the fact that they were ashamed of having a daughter instead of a son but the event that prompted her to leave her home and turn into a sociopath was when half of her right wing was torn off when her father came back drunk (they are going through a financial crisis). After that, she became *very* apathetic towards other people's pain and in some cases her own (she doesn't care about injuring herself, NOT due to self-hatred but due to apathy and her love for high-risk situations) as she believed that nothing can be worse. She, later on, meets Mike ( a psychopath about a year older than her(, is a shapeshifter, she was 14 and he was 15) and joined a gang where she also met Fred (abuse victim, heavy PTSD, age 14, also a fairy). She believed that he hid his wings under his shirt as it was common practice but later found out that they have been completely cut off by Mike to keep him under control (Mike has been conditioned to be a ruthless killer by his "Boss"/ father figure, therefore has the motive to do such things, as I believe that a Psychopath does not care about the people around them enough to kill them without a motive, correct me if I'm wrong). This caused Fiona to realise that it's not all about her and she decided to try and help Fred, mostly out of disgust for what Mike has done, but fails and could only escape on her own ( the gang had a strict once 'you're in you never get out' policy) This is only one example of such a situation but I belive it does the job, what do you think?

[@K.l.a.u.s]

Really interesting podcast.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks, Mieszko!

[@mylife-23]

I say both born and made. Trauma can cause many things, but you can also be born with something too.

[@peterkaramazov6586]

From a psychoanalytic perspective, we have an idea of why we dream, to some extent.

[@n.c.6211]

Thank you for this insightful content. I have a question on childhood behaviour. If a child considers stupid the archetype of the good person and that of the evil person also stupid because they behave irrationally whereas the grey is the good way to go based on the occasion, could this be a very strong indicator the kid has no conscience? There are other traits but this struck me as particularly strange. Plus I have read about the empathy switch so allegedly even psychopaths were born with the capacity for empathy but no one taught them how to use it?

[@stephaniecassin3696]

Great episode! This has always confused me, thanks for the clarification!!

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks, Stephanie!

[@MrLadyjazsjunk]

What if they fit everything except the anti-social aspect? Plus, someone currently taking psychology tried to tell me during a discussion that psychology doesn't take in to consideration situational responses for survival or otherwise. So I'm a little confused about the the actual application. I disagreed simply because in sociology and criminology I learned the opposite.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Good questions. Debatable. I just take it on a case by case basis.

[@MrLadyjazsjunk]

Psychology In Seattle Thank you. That seems like a much more realistic response. I feel like this is the reason people should debate. I enjoy your podcasts, wish I could contribute monetarily.

[@BodyLanguageAnalysisInterrogat]

16:24 Great points!

[@davidlewis4162]

Love this channel

[@amc903]

i can not currently find a therapist that will take my insurance to treat my 9 year. all the thing that I have learned about a sociopath match my son. sadly. can you maybe make a video on how to live with a sociopath and ways that I as a parent can try and help him. I am desperate. he was good the for most part, but lately bad

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Sure. Yeah. tough situation. We've talked about that issue in other episodes. Lots of people struggle with that. I get emails every day about that.

[@scott1971h]

Both would present as asocial, but sociopaths have been socialised pathologically. It's learned behaviour. There is at least something that can be changed..... A psychopath is being themselves.

[@abcertweld]

Here is a thought. Morality is dictated by the rules of society. What is found acceptable now wasn't in the past, and what was acceptable in the past is not today, and what is acceptable now may not be in the future, and what is acceptable in the future may not be acceptable now. Just think about that when one talks about morality. Just an observation of the past, present, and future.

[@mdmmalou]

Yes right. Everything changes.. Even old traditions erode. Thats good bc we're all in an evolutional process constantly.

[@abcertweld]

@@mdmmalou adaptation is not the same as evolution. That is where people get mixed up. One can adapt and remain the same species. Evolution is when one species changes for one to a another species, and show me where that has ever happened in Thousands of years. It hasn't.

[@mdmmalou]

Hello Thomas, But what if the adaptation changes? It is also constantly changing, viewed from the larger picture. There are more than 25 definitions of evolution. Everything has to do with development. Consider the position of women (small example) that has been changed. Infact it's the way of thinking that constantly changes, so everything changes. And the whole earth changes. In my humble opinion it no longer looks like thousands of years ago. And it's also true, people of all origins mixup with each other.. I wonder why you don't consider your own statement to be evolutionary ... maybe I misunderstand..

[@7curiogeo]

Yep we/ me,(lay person) want to understand why some folk do what they do. Yes it is based on enemy recognition, an individuals primary goal is survival. Human nature. Does it extend to the protection, survival of others or not? These are important questions. This does define individuals.

[@jsoncoding1025]

i tried to sta someone because they were angry and they directed their anger at me for no reason.... i was calm nd not really offended so i sat on the bus and waited for him to get off he said his name on the bus so i called my fried who might knw him.... he did . he told me where he would get off the bus. when the person came off the bus i chased him to stab him but he ran away all the while feeling completely calm and unbothered am i a psycho

[@Zwantceeto]

Why do people want to understand psychopathy? For the same reason people watch true crime and "narcissistic abuse". They want to recognize them in order to understand how to stay safe.

[@francesbell9465]

It's great when it's just you 👍😊

[@alinamin6393]

I can help and answer any questions you may have about theses personality traits

[@hridoygovindadas914]

5:09 I only sleep 4 hours per night. But I am a sociopath. lol

[@sofiaalmeida3770]

6 minutes in and I already like you.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Ha!

[@xenigmacreacher3.0x99]

That’s strange that we don’t know how we dream we should try get funding or something so we can all understand this at the moment I’ve been diagnosed with Antisocial disorder and I have no idea what it’s about also have RRMS I have a new cpn that I had to tell everything to once again from childhood till now could you do a video on Antisocial disorder please

[@jennifernew4792]

Wth is he talking about top 10 hits for?

[@prestons9305]

You really think we are completely unconscious while sleeping?

[@PapiyoneVineland]

As a rock prog/jazz musician, your definition of a good song offends me. Hahaha

[@jspinks2388]

Underlying traits anyone could possibly have. Do you want to destroy things are you fucking Violent? etc, do you crave stimulation? but at the same time the sort of build or taking care of things approach. The sociopath is more like that end-user analogy, I don't know just user and not really care or something.

[@Michelle-rv9ks]

Your descriptions completely leave out the sensationalism you see elsewhere

[@Taylorhypersensitivefox]

I am a psychopath whisperer. Not making anything up. It's deep stuff. I have a letter of recommendation in which it says, "...Taylor Grimsdottir has both a deep interest and a giftedness in forensic psychology."

[@Taylorhypersensitivefox]

Luvie1980 No. Why would you ask that?

[@Redflowers9]

So what would you guess about me?

[@forgetgangstalking8646]

@@Taylorhypersensitivefox Dottir is icelandic for daughter...

[@annemurphy438]

Hhh

[@daveninjaneuro7089]

You're a little off at least lol

[@JAYMOAP]

Wisely puted.

[@johnlovesbridge]

Sociopathy can be created through child abuse. It's irresponsible to pretend this is not known.

[@xiloeteknowledgiesllc1973]

Contextual LOL 16:16

[@abcertweld]

APD is also defined by people's opinion. The DSM will also change as it has before. APD to me is just the new excuse they use just like they did with Bi Polar, ADHD, and ADD before. APD is the new thing until there is a newer thing that everybody wants to latch on to.

[@jeffreybernstein3628]

I was always told that answer to the nature vs nurture argument was both

[@xenigmacreacher3.0x99]

God sorry 😐

[@NickolasRomine]

Way to much politics. Wanted to hear your perspectives on what was titles not 15 minutes of gun control

[@RobertStMarie]

So, basically you're saying you don't know anything about the subject of your own podcast? Why should I waste my time listening to you?

[@happytroll2477]

Robert St.Marie not at all what he said. Watch the fucking video before commenting moron, he was naming things that people still could not figure out and he was telling the truth also sometimes psychology can’t answer everything. Maybe if you can last longer then 10 minutes you would of been interested.

[@jacoboflaherty5282]

You're truly ignorant aren't you.. neurotypicals... The meaning of the podcast is to represent our ignorance of psychology Especially with psychopathy and sociopathy. No psychologist has any concrete information to go on but speculation and research.