Challenge accepted: the no brakes landing

[@RyzZaveri]

Now a video on cross wind landings and comparing them to side slips would be great! Thanks for this one. 🙂

[@PureGlide]

Good idea!

[@NigelRumpstead]

Really enjoy your videos, thank you.

[@slowtraveler]

On our 60yrs old training glider side slip was frightening :) Very controllable, but with nasty vibration (i think the rudder will fell off :) ), especially when you can't control airspeed precisely due to wrong IAS indication in this side airflow... On our glider full sideslip 'indicated' IAS was between 0 and 40km/h instead of real abt 100km/). But anyway it was very good training - in case of emergency (brake fail) you will need this experience. During initial training we train brakeless landing with both S-turns for initial altitude loss (airbrakes was very effective and usually we came in high), and then transiting to sideslip for final glide... Very useful.. Thanks for good explanation and perfect demonstration ...

[@jongoodman3055]

Great video. I’d like to add that a stall in a sideslip is pretty benign. But it. Is important to know the difference between a SLIP and a SKID. I teach slips to all of my students in an SGS 2-33A. Lots of drag. Also the descent rate increases in a slip with a lower speed. Recommended speed should be In the POH. Thanks again, I look forward to more.

[@MrErwinGliding]

I always find the technique of entering a sideslip interesting, each instructor tells a different story why either enter with rudder first, or enter with aileron first is more benificial My perspective always told me entering with aileron first would be more benificial since the adverse yaw would help you, this effect you increase with using your rudder secondary. By entering with rudder first, you would have the secondary effect of rolling the wrong direction. (ofcourse this effect is minor when entering slow)

[@PureGlide]

I suspect it’s because in my glider I use so little aileron, and a lot of rudder… so I said I lead with the rudder but only by a fraction

[@anttiruo]

@@MrErwinGliding My flight instructor would say: "You steer the ship into the sideslip and you steer it out of the sideslip." By which he means that you try it and learn the method which works for you. If all goes well you won't be able to explain your exact technique if someone asks.

[@ronbork684]

You make this old man want to get back into soaring. Got to solo at Crystalaire here in the high desert of Southern California in 1975. Last year while at the Dermatologist office, I had the pleasure of bumping into Ross Briegleb. He took me up for my first sail plane ride when I was a kid. Too soon we get old.

[@RobManser77]

I've never flown or even been in a glider, but I must say that was a superb landing and demonstration 🙂

[@T3glider]

A sideslip doesn’t just increase drag, it also reduces lift since the span is effectively reduced.

[@PureGlide]

good point! so obvious, never thought of that haha

[@hectorpascale1013]

And the inner part of the leeward wing is in dirty air from the fuselage.

[@michaelrussell5346]

Back in the early days ( mid 70’s) we would , when possible, use our strip as a two way operation. We would plant the pie cart on the end of the strip and , on landing, do our approach from the other end and round out in ground effect ,coasting like a pelican and opening the airbrakes in time to roll up to the pie cart . Although we used the airbrakes in the circuit pattern and controlled our descent with airbrakes,we never discussed the remote possibility of airbrake failure on rounding out and touching down. I did ,however witnessed a situation when a pilot who had just been checked out in fibreglass was sent off in an ASW 15. We watched him on his approach descent and observed his undercarriage rapidly going up and down and his altitude remaining at about 100 ft. He flew over us at speed and put down safely on the other strip . He had not been reminded that the undercarriage lever was on the left below the airbrake handle. I don’t recall whether his radio was working or not,but luckily he was not discouraged and enjoyed the rest of his stay. Cheers from across the pond 👍🇦🇺🇳🇿👍

[@AeroclubBexbach]

sehr cool. vielen dank! liebe grüße vom Aeroclub Bexbach

[@AirJoe]

Yay new video!

[@maximusboscus]

That was part of our training for the license.

[@uberdenwolken4564]

I got another challenge for you. Which I only tried in the simulator „Condor soaring“ yet and which is only possible at completely calm conditions. Some small background: When using the pedals for the side rudder, the glider rolls a little bit like it does with the ailerons. And with the air brake lever you can cause more or less pitch. All just slightly but it works at least in the sim. So about the challenge: I landed the glider multiple times successfully just with the pedals and air brake. No touch on the stick at all. I do not recommend trying a landing without the stick. But I‘m curious if you can steer your glider (in absolutely calm air) without the stick. Just by pedals and air brake lever. (To roll to the right you must press the right rudder slightly and just wait until the glider rolled as much as you require. Same for the left side roll.) I do recommend trying it in Condor Soaring in case you use it. 🙂

[@walterlown6308]

Great new video...Thanks Tim

[@charlieirvin5898]

new goal- side slip down the entire circuit

[@PureGlide]

yes!

[@ronaldglider]

I need to practice my skills again!

[@T3glider]

Another exercise we used when I was training was to do S-turns on final to reduce altitude before landing instead of using a sideslip.

[@maximusboscus]

Not really reccommended if you are already at low altitude. Side slip is safer.

[@TheSoaringChannel]

​​@@maximusboscussure it is safe. If you're high on approach, you're also fast. This also means: you aren't low to the ground.

[@maximusboscus]

@@TheSoaringChannel I remember from our training they teached us 3 ways of quick descent (with all surface controls operational): S-Turns (the "softest one"), side slip and the aggressive one was very low pitch and full spoilers (the funniest one in my opinion) as last resort. Are there any other manoeuvers to lose altitude besides those ones?

[@TheSoaringChannel]

@@maximusboscus I'm sure there are. The dive method is my favorite. I do it almost every time I fly during arrival. The big takeaway from the dive method is to remember to burn that excess speed off above 100' - or else ground effect will get you and make you go very long with all the extra airspeed. So when I come in, I'll be at 90kts with full spoilers to the threshold, then level off at 100' approximately and the energy just immediately dissipates, then I close to half brakes, and continue the approach to flare. It's amazing and actually quite safe, because you will ALWAYS make the runway, even in heavy sink or lift. You've basically made the glider as inefficient as possible, but huge energy stores. So if you start coming up short, you close the brakes a tad and pull up to hold the speed, and suddenly you're at 90kts and covering all kinds of ground. If you hit lift, you just keep doing what you're doing - you'll be out of the lift in less than 3 seconds. It works great, but takes practicing at altitude (and Condor!) before doing it. It works really well. Terminal five brakes are a wonderful toy. But when they don't close, or when they won't open - you've got yourself a situation to fix. My glider was damaged from airbrakes jamming open on approach. What speed do you fly? What do airbrakes do? Drag. So you fly as slowly as you can before feeling the sink, so they aren't effective. If you speed up you increase their effectiveness. You asked if there are other methods - I'm sure there are people who might suggest a 360, but if you're anywhere below 1000' I wouldn't suggest that method because of the hazard of tail wind. An S turn is safe down low because it will only help you better identify the wind direction and speed. Great stuff.

[@bryankincaid7631]

awesome vid , i started flying in GAU , back in the mid 60's , i would really like to glide again but not at these costs today , i guess self launching is very expensive as well , so i have a challenger ll microlite to glide in , not the best but will suit me , have fun , enjoy your vids , cheers

[@xjet]

Got to watch the airspeed though -- right? Crossing the stick/pedals is an invitation to snap roll if you stall me thinks?

[@PureGlide]

You'd think, but it's remarkably stable, and not likely to stall a wing in a side slip. I'm sure you could, if you point the glider straight up, something will eventually stall! I'll have to experiment (in a more aerobatic glider...)

[@harryspeakup8452]

Got to watch the angle of attack specifically, rather than the airspeed. In a big slip your ASI reading is likely to be all over the place anyway. But if your nose attitude and stick position are correct then you won't stall

[@Maniac742]

You're thinking of a skid, which you shouldn't be doing anyways. Skidding is inviting a spin, which at pattern altitude is almost guaranteed death.

[@MrAlexrowlands]

Easiest way to learn is to fly the final turn normally but then leave the rudder pedals alone as you centralise the stick. I used to love doing full sideslip full brake approaches into strong winds at a hill site in an ASK13. . You can almost descend vertically ! Long as you watch the asi as you centralise the rudders and dont overspeed its all good clean fun !

[@nuancewinerysupplies]

Thanks for the video. I would recommend mentioning that some gliders don’t allow slide slipping (the stabilizer can be blanketed). Also, non symmetrical flying close to the ground can be deadly. Maybe you want to re-explain the two types of dissymmetry 😊.

[@PureGlide]

Good points, thx

[@terryroberts4321]

I fly a paramotor love all things flying great vd

[@PureGlide]

Thank you!

[@TaberBucknell]

The unmodified ASW-12 only had a drag chute (no airbrakes) and side slipping for glide path control.

[@glennwatson]

We use side slipping in powered fix wing if we are too high on final, or in a forced landing situation and we are worried about overshooting a paddock. Also sometimes slips are used to keep straight during a crosswind scenario on landing.

[@Pilot_Marc]

Great video! Can you possibly show this on a TMG?

[@SlowlySailing-lc1cs]

Maybe it's an American thing, but I learned to call this a forward slip (aircraft is slipping forwards, along its path of flight). To me, a side slip is when the aircraft is slipping (coordinated, not crossed up) into a crosswind, usually to track the runway on approach. I'm not talking about putting the upwind wing down, or even crabbing...I'm talking about a shallow coordinated turn into the wind, causing the aircraft to fly "sideways" relative to its flight path. So...I ask those who call the former maneuver a sideslip, what do you call the latter?

[@PureGlide]

Yeah different regions call them different things. Usually the US has slightly different terms for everything e.g. Sailplane vs glider... I think we'd say a slip is different to a 'side slip'. So 'Side Slip' in NZ = 'Forward Slip' in US, which are both different to coordinated slipping?

[@johngalloway156]

The American terminology has never made any sense to me. A glider doing what Americans call a "side slip" is not slipping at all; it is in coordinated flight and pointing into wind just enough so that its track matches the runway. And a glider doing an American "forward slip" is clearly going sideways in uncoordinated flight sufficiently to match the runway.

[@markburton5170]

I call coordinated flight tracking the centre line in a crosswind 'crabbing'

[@denniscook390]

I've done that exact circuit at Matamata but stopped just past the caravan. You can drop the forward wing way more than you did.

[@denniscook390]

Must add it was an ASW17 so no T tail and minimal elevator blanking if any.

[@PureGlide]

Haha yes maybe we should tell your no brakes story at some stage…

[@tangoalpha6013]

Nice video, what to consider in case of side wind? which position to direct the glider nose?

[@ChristianSchwarz71]

Can you slowly repeat or comment what you said (01:50) about the "rudder lock" ? That was too fast for me :-) and I`m not sure if I got it right. Thanks !

[@PureGlide]

Hi the idea is while in a side slip, if you take your feet off the pedals, does the rudder stay in place or not. I have no idea if this is good or bad!

[@MatthewLine]

​@@PureGlide It's just aerodynamic forces keeping the rudder in place?

[@Fidd88-mc4sz]

You need static-vents on both sides of the fuselage to get anything like a sensible reading from pressure-driven instruments when side-slipping. Accordingly it's imperative that you attitude-fly, not least because you're flying "cross-controlled" and therefore if the speed decays, you are entering "about to do the clots-spin" territory. So it needs to be done well and accurately. The other risk is your lower wing striking the ground. It's something to practice all the time, at altitude. Be aware that other gliders nearby may misread your actual path of flight. I would avoid alternating the sides to which you are side-slipping, as these alternating loads have brought down aircraft before - the A300 that crashed in Queens was one.

[@Gliderpilot2024]

It’s a very useful technique, but in some gliders - the Ventus 2 and 3 for example in 18 metre form, the nose drops pitches down rapidly if you use more than a very small amount of yaw. This is probably due to the outer panels of the wings blanking the elevator and is very disconcerting if done low on approach.

[@PureGlide]

Interesting, yes others mentioned it, I haven't noticed it much in my Ventus. I guess cos my wings are so awesome

[@Johan-ex5yj]

Also beware of pitch down (loss of pitch authority) when combining side slip with airbrakes. Search for >> "Gliding Australia - 2008 - OSB 01/08 Sideslipping"

[@rederos8079]

There are many gliders that have some weird stuff going on with sideslip. Ls-8 advices against side slipping (without prohibiting it). I tried it once high up just to see how it would perform if it had to be done in an emergency. Well, it's adviced not to sideslip for a reason, the ailerons get all mushy and don't do pretty much anything at all when in a hard slip. Apparently something to do with the pizza shovels we have for winglets.

[@Paul-vh6ul]

@@rederos8079 To quote the LS8 POH "4.5.15 Side-slip (1) Side-slip can be recommended for landing only with a small amount of air brake extension, as low-speed side-slip is not possible because of nose-heavy moment of fully extended air brakes." Seems like landing with a sideslip with spoilers closed would be okay?

[@rederos8079]

@@Paul-vh6ul Right, I guess I didn't remember the POH quite right. Probably so, but in my case I didn't notice the nose-heavyness. Maybe because I am quite light myself, cg is quite far back. Try it out up high, see what it does. Maybe in your case it would do better?

[@pfflorapfflora3190]

Note that asymmetric flight is forbidden on some modern gliders !! Check your flight manuals !!

[@PureGlide]

Great point!

[@stijnvandamme76]

So the rudder lock, is that because your tail is pushed in the air stream, and when pushed far enough that airstream then pushes the rudder opposite? (and tail blanks out other side)

[@ericvadekro8334]

Warning landing gear: good point 😎

[@PureGlide]

yip! worth remembering to do that...

[@Maniac742]

On the Duo Discus, even with a full side slip in, a no spoilers landing is the world's longest final. Its glide ratio is just too good. Takes forever for the thing to come down.

[@anttiruo]

True, with spoilers AND sideslip you will get a rate of descent of the Discus with spoilers only. XL is of course different.

[@MuhammadFardhan-k5s]

Hi dude, i'm from Indonesia, where i can buy a glider with the engine in online shop....?

[@terencetaylor4600]

You don’t have any danger of flipping over like can maybe happen on a prop plane?

[@markplain2555]

What's the difference between a "side slip" and a "forward slip"?

[@tomdupree2758]

Hey Tim, why are you talking about descent rate and not glide ratio? Like if you want descent rate you can just point the nose at the ground :) Just the understood jargon in sailplanes? Confused paraglider pilot.

[@PureGlide]

Hi, in gliders we control our air speed with pitch, so nose down = go faster. Sure you 'go down' too, but you're turning your height into speed, your total energy doesn't change that much, and you'll have to pull up and climb to slow down again! That's why we have spoilers/air brakes, and side slipping, to loose energy. I probably should have used the term energy a bit more...

[@tomdupree2758]

@@PureGlide do the spoilers affect stall speed?

[@Rasta8889]

​@@tomdupree2758 Slightly, to the tune of 6-10% depending on loading and glider type. Stall speed and landing approach speed (also best glide speed) is far enough apart for that to usually not matter but occasionally you'll hear people say that you should not extend brakes before your turn into final because you might stall during that last turn because of them. Whilst that is correct you'd have to be way to slow at that point anyway.

[@jean-claudemouille6500]

A noter qu'en France , cette manœuvre est considérée comme dangereuse avec des planeurs à empennage en T car il y a un risque de " déventer" la profondeur dans le sillage de l'aile. De plus , elle est considérée comme peu efficace en raison de la faible trainée du fuselage. A réserver donc aux planeurs " anciens" et aux pilotes qui ont appris à la pratiquer... Après , en cas de réelle impossibilité de sortir les aérofreins , pourquoi pas...

[@steffanjansenvanvuuren3257]

How often do you fly?

[@PureGlide]

One a month over winter, a lot more during contests and summer

[@diablouser]

I did a full slip approach and landing in a 1 - 26 way back in about 1968. That was soon after I had soloed in three hours and 20 minutes without prior Aircraft experience. They sure were different times, insurance and instructors. My main instructor was a retired Marine fighter pilot who lost a leg in a traffic accident in Tokyo during the Korean war. He had some interesting instruction techniques. I was having a lot of trouble on tow being jerky on the controls and unable to relax in a 2-33. As I was spasming around on the controls, he reached up and grabbed both my shoulders and shook me hard yelling in a Marine Core instructor voice, “goddamnit relax “it actually worked and he soloed me two flights later. My HPH 304MS will go into rudder suck and lock if you get too uncoordinated. It happened once on tow my first flight in the glider, and scared the hell out of me. I’m not sure a slip to landing would be a good idea in this sort of glider. What might be a good technique to try would be putting the motor out and not starting it. I think the book says the glide ratio goes down to 15 to one. Sure wouldn’t want to try that except near the top of a long, long runway.

[@BoomVang]

I love this "forward slip" which seems so naughty to turn left and right at the same time, giving a descending straight. A deadstick airliner used that to land short of some kids in the "Gimli glider" incident. I wonder if you could make more drag by alternating left and right in a certain rhythm that teased laminar flow to detach and reattach.

[@OBSUGASZYBOWCOW]

Challenge accepted: no airbrakes at all. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYnRZIiAndqtarM SPECIAL SOUND EFFECT;)!

[@tricky2917]

Next goal, backwards? 🙃

[@PureGlide]

lol great idea haha

[@tricky2917]

@PureGlide do a winch launch and play it backwards, no one will notice lol

[@PureGlide]

genius

[@Frank-uq1wl]

What's new for me is that the nose points up while slipping. I learned it on a SZD Bocian and Pirat and I had to put the nose way down to hold the speed. I see it the last years mostly always and everytime I am near a heart attack awaiting a spiral while the nose is looking to the sky.

[@TheAverageDutchman]

Puchacz has similar behaviour. It's just how those types like to be slipped. Usually though you wouldn't be able to get the plane in a spin or spiral since you run out of rudder authority before the speed drops enough and the aircraft just "runs out of the slip" and points the pointy end forward again.

[@PureGlide]

Great point, I didn’t mention it in video but yes it’s a good idea to increase the speed/lower the nose slightly (or more for some aircraft) to counteract the effect.

[@donaldpayne1376]

Gidday Tim, love your vids, thank you.