Putin’s vision of Russia is not ‘desirable to almost anybody’ - Francis Fukuyama

Francis Fukuyama is a political scientist and professor at Stanford University.
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Francis is known for his books, The End of History and the Last Man, but he recently published a new book 'Liberalism and its Discontents’.
He joins Krishnan to talk about the war in Ukraine, liberalism and whether democracy is under threat in today’s world.
Producer: Freya Pickford
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[@c.r.m3113]

Дай Бог героїчним українським Збройним силам і мужнім цивільним особам України остаточної перемоги над боягузливим вторгненням Путіна в їх країну. Путін повинен понести остаточне покарання за вчинення таких жахливих, жорстоких і варварських військових злочинів проти невинних чоловіків, жінок і дітей України. Слава Україні!

[@hughmanatee5096]

Fantastic interview of Francis Fukuyama regarding the invasion of Ukraine specifically and the struggle between liberal democracies vs. national authoritarian tendencies generally. Some liberal democracies, such as the U.S., could do a better job of making liberal democracy more appealing by taking care of the economically marginalized section of their population.

[@dylandylantoriyama5370]

@Hugh Manatee...Are you serious sir ? Have you seen the ''export'' of libeal democracy by the US to places like Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afganistan and other proxy influance by the US foreign policy. It only led to chaos and destruction. How did liberal democracy defenders in Hong Kong with US and UK backing help them ? It made Hong Kong more isolated. Is the US a ''real libeal democracy'' if you can only pick to 2 parties or have a history of racially margenalizing its own people ( native and afr americans) yet want to teach and preach ''freedom for all'' .

[@johnhennessy7887]

He'd be a fair professor if he would stop injecting his leftist memes....

[@DPtheOG]

I just liked hearing his perfect English. Seems wise, despite the memes.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@johnhennessy7887 He’s actually a conservative. That you consider him to be a liberal in the partisan sense shows how little you understand what liberalism means. Ronald Reagan, both George Bushes, John McCain, Bob Dole, the pre-2008 Republican Party, ALL supported liberal democracy in the U.S.A. and internationally. Re-watch the video and pay attention to Fukuyama’s definition of liberal democracy.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

@@DPtheOG He is an red blooded American. He’s highly educated. Why would you think English language would present a challenge to him?

[@gibadias1637]

Always enriching to listen to someone who didn't miss history classes...!

[@piphany4858]

Not to stay brainwashed, it makes sense to find out what the Western media hide on the Ukranian conflict. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hIeommdrbdirnLc

[@jamestcatcato7132]

He not only missed classes, he missed reality, epically! In fact we've had more history ,since his fallacious book,, than went before.

[@jamestcatcato7132]

'If Yeltsin had picked differently ,we might have ended up with different outcomes" ...REALLY? well thanks for tellling us the obvious Francis, have you any more gems for us?

[@jamestcatcato7132]

OoOhh,the irony of complaining "Others have misread history." Is that so mr F? What a charlatan?

[@johnedward3404]

**. Whoever this guy is he's freaking brilliant.!!!!! Tells it like it is .. WE CAN WALK AND CHEW GUM... Looks like we are going to have to,,, focus on more than one thing... I pray that the Ukraine sends mr. Putin,,, back to Moscow,,, for early retirement party !!! **

[@terbog]

In order to achieve some change, the "western model" has to shift more around "caring for its people". That would make the democratic model more attractive, otherwise it doesn't matter for people too much if they are poorly treated by an exploitative and corrupt oligarchy or "democratic dynasty" or an authoritarian regime.

[@user-pe9qg3hg3k]

The democratic model does care for people, if they are illegal immigrants or pregnant women

[@terbog]

@@user-pe9qg3hg3k Yeah, it should focus on real issues instead. Its like your flat is a dirty mess and you procrastinate by discussing a dirty spot on your doorstep. And when someone asks you to do the laundry, you repeatedly beat on the dirty spot.

[@ogedeh]

Agree. But I don't see it changing, short of revolution.

[@brokenrecord3095]

seems like today the "western model" is more about caring for capital.

[@JamesC785]

The mechanisms that increase inequalities are not helping & we are all guilty of thinking that things are set in stone. The system that produced the booming middle class of my youth needs to be tweaked with international cooperation (global minimum corporate tax is a good example). Stricter controls on political corporate funding & lobby groups are needed. Governments promising tax cuts whilst pandering to the wealthy for re-election. Authoritarian regimes are in complete denial of the climate crisis too.

[@romybaul6053]

I admire Francis Fukuyama's insights. He is an intellectual who can see things in every society that politicians and leaders don't. His analysis on wars and their causes are spot on. I have read his book "The End of History and the Last Man" and it enlightened me up and changed my view of the world and its events in a clearer way. His advise is, "if you really want to know and solve problems that are happening in the world today, stop thinking about your own politics and ideological beliefs, because they always influence your judgments and make things worse".

[@PRH123]

How ironic, what he is saying here is guided by his politics and ideological beliefs. Someone who was so colossally and stupidly wrong about the “end of history” (whatever even that meant at that time) has no business posing as a pundit in the political or economic sphere.

[@brehgankage6242]

Seems like he was wrong on everything in his book The End of History. Funny man.

[@brehgankage6242]

@Gaelileo well said

[@jefftjon2475]

@@PRH123 Prof. John Mearsheimer is the real forecaster.

[@awwtergirl7040]

@@PRH123 Yes, VERY ironic but also telling. They do not consider *their* ideology to be ideological or political. Pretty arrogant tbh.

[@ascgazz7347]

“If we are successful in stopping Putin” I sincerely hope so lads. I really do because I can’t imagine an alternative at the moment.

[@dylandylantoriyama5370]

@Magicazz...Because there is no alternative. Putin has a very powerful arsenal and huge influence over the EU more than we think. Besides the supply of oil and gas.

[@ascgazz7347]

@@dylandylantoriyama5370 of course there’s an alternative. We don’t know for sure we are going to stop him. If we don’t… boom: alternative. I’m deeply suspicious of anybody that thinks there is only one possible outcome for this utter chaos. There could be another pandemic… earthquake, volcano.. he could stop all gas and oil to Europe. We can’t bomb him for that. I hope he is stopped, obviously. But if there was no alternative there would be no choice, there is always choice in global war, therefore there is always more than one possible outcome. Many more than one. That’s why we are trying to move slowly.

[@ascgazz7347]

@@dylandylantoriyama5370 and this is without even mentioning the possible depolarisation of the world, which currency will replace it? Western Euro, or Eastern Yuen? Mate. I hate to smother you with possible alternatives and I admire your optimism… but we need to keep this real.

[@TheRogueEmpire]

right wing slavery

[@robertstan298]

How sad of you that you can't do that. You poor little brainwashed fools.

[@robmiller1964]

So true, this guy is so good to listen to! So wise! Well worth watching! Love from New Zealand!

[@coldpotatoes2556]

Sheeple

[@steadmanuhlich6734]

I am new to watching Channel 4 News, and this is only the third interview I have seen by the journalist Krishnan. I am impressed by his savvy questions. Good job journalist! I particularly was impressed by his interview with the Russian Deputy UN Ambassador. He asked very good questions and pushed back on nonsense (false) answers from the diplomat.

[@grahamblack1716]

Channel 4 imo is by far the best MSM Channel for news here in the UK. All of the presenters are excellent interviewers.

[@raskolnikov1461]

Foolish men - both of them speak non-sense. The presenter is so happy to cover war like it is something that gave meaning to his life. I watched him for years on Channel 4 and never he was so passionate before and radically one-sided and unfair. The professor is more of a fantast as he totally got the reality of things wrong even by giving his book such pretensive and not a truthful and deeply ambiguous title. Got his guesses in that book completely wrong. Why are they even talking to each other??? Russia is a great and beautiful country that covers the European and Asian mentality so well. If you ever came across Russian people and were lucky to have them as friends - you would know what I mean... The mistake of Ukraine is that they decided to deny Russia respect and shitted on the past with Russia. Engaged in employing tons of American weapons. The naivety of the comedian-actor Zelensky killing his own people. I feel for Russia, please stop demonising it!

[@kkivela]

Putin expects to have his name in the history of the restoration of Russian greatness, although in fact his name will be associated with the same series as Stalin and Hitler. Putin, however, restores Stalin to the reputation of a great leader so a parable to Stalin could flatter Putin. Stalin, however, was the world's greatest killer of his own citizen. More than 6 million Russians died in the cleansing of Stalin in the 1930s. And on the other hand, Stalin was a former Georgian bank robber who couldn’t even speak Russian well so he kind of didn’t kill his own citizens.

[@CentauriSphere]

I generally agree, except for one point. Stalin was number 2. Number one was Mao of China (more than Stalin and Hitler combined). Hitler obviously being number 3.

[@YawehthedragondogofEL]

There are no good guys fellas. Stalin is the man who stopped Hitler. It's as simple as that. The Western front was a side show compared to what went down in Russia in WW2. While China was getting gang raped by foreign powers for 200 years until Mao took charge. Putin doesn't compare to either of them because he is a loser, just watch.

[@slobodanpaunovic3834]

@@CentauriSphere you are wrong UK and US are number one

[@gracemir2]

As War criminal, murderer, butcher

[@elftax]

Hopefully he will be famous… for the break up of Russia.

[@Eliel7230]

Great interview ! Yes, we should be very grateful for the Democratic liberties we enjoy. Let us not forget that freedom isn't free. It was bought with a heavy price. It's value is beyond measure.

[@charlesmaximus9161]

Democracy = death. You can keep it, those of us who know better shouldn’t have it forcefully imposed on us. Typical godless western liberals. “Be kind…or ELSE! Here’s some free pornography and streets littered with drugs…isn’t that great?! Don’t you just love freedom?!”

[@raskolnikov1461]

Foolish men - both of them speak non-sense. The presenter is so happy to cover war like it is something that gave meaning to his life. I watched him for years on Channel 4 and never he was so passionate before and radically one-sided and unfair. The professor is more of a fantast as he totally got the reality of things wrong even by giving his book such pretensive and not a truthful and deeply ambiguous title. Got his guesses in that book completely wrong. Why are they even talking to each other??? Russia is a great and beautiful country that covers the European and Asian mentality so well. If you ever came across Russian people and were lucky to have them as friends - you would know what I mean... The mistake of Ukraine is that they decided to deny Russia respect and shitted on the past with Russia. Engaged in employing tons of American weapons. The naivety of the comedian-actor Zelensky killing his own people. I feel for Russia, please stop demonising it!

[@imaginemetoo]

@@raskolnikov1461 Education is key to your life choices! Democracy is a right ! 🇺🇦🇺🇦🌎☮️

[@raskolnikov1461]

@@imaginemetoo Definitely. We have the best education in Europe and Russia. Keep your stinky democracy to yourself.

[@lallafomlallafom53]

@@imaginemetooeducation… not misinformation… how does it feel now looking back ?)))))

[@marekrozkowski5549]

Good interview. However the notion that just getting rid of Putin will have a decisive positive impact is pretty naive. There are a lot of hot heads in Russia that would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons. But of course, democracies should stand firm, support Ukraine to win the war, and, as Margaret Thatcher used to say, do not reward the aggressor.

[@hapah4894]

You do know, that even in Russia, Putin can not press the nuclear launch button all by himself. There are several decisions levels involving different departments leading to the real launch.

[@pensiveintrovert4318]

So this is the more subtle Putin's propaganda? A little of pseudo critical view, and a lot of fear mongering.

[@funkya1840]

I disagree. Putin would be only one who wouldn’t mind obliterating the west in the name of ideology. The rest oligarch, as corrupt as they are, don't really have any care for anything except for keeping their wealth.

[@slobodanpaunovic3834]

Ukraine already lost the war, second point is that NATO was aggressors in many countries around the world, did you forget.

[@pensiveintrovert4318]

@@slobodanpaunovic3834 The NATO is insufficiently aggressive. We should wage preemptive wars more often so that tinpot dictators think hard about foreign adventures. Russia is close to falling apart. Kadyrov is going change allegiance and start kllling Russians, again. Chechens call Russians "cockroaches." Very appropriate.

[@sherievans2617]

In other words …… Wake up Don’t be a Dolt Educate yourself & constantly strive to learn about and help other’s in attaining their needs, not just pursuing your own needs… it’s called being part of a CIVIL SOCIETY. A healthy Democracy does NOT equal Selfish Individualism at the expense of others, aka Greed. Greed is what is damaging society and democracy!

[@mihaelacomanescu]

Greed has been the root of evil throughout history. Moral values are not praised and observed by many these days, while greed, lies, deceit and selfishness are encouraged and socially accepted in fact. Giving only lip service to moral values and education, not professional training, does not seem to help humankind evolve. Technology without humanity brings us all ...here. Who likes it?

[@kathypiazza7228]

@@mihaelacomanescu 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@subcitizen2012]

Well said, well f*****g said

[@psphunter174]

100 Years of U.S. Meddling & Regime Change, kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6jcm5-jeqaWj68, kzbin.info/www/bejne/nGq0YmyHf9V9atU, kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKjFlaptrJV5f5I, kzbin.info/www/bejne/b6rXn3-imbGng9E, kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqOVZXeCiJZpeZo, kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZupf32qn9Jgras

[@MarcosElMalo2]

It’s very interesting how Fukuyama has evolved his thinking without abandoning his core principles. If anything, he’s refined his conservative ideas from the overly-simplistic neo-conservatism he espoused in the 90s and 2000s. This is what reality based conservatism looks like, although it seems rare and quaint compared to what passes for conservatism over the past dozen years.

[@vodkatonyq]

Fukuyama conservative??

[@johnedward3404]

**. That was the most brilliant analysis of the current situation in the Ukraine and Russia and the United States,,,, that I've heard lately... This guy,,, is bravely,, describing our current condition... The radical right complaining about forced immunization shots... And obsessed with child porn.... We can't even talk to each other anymore.. they have a different set of facts... This is got to change. POSSIBLY THIS WAR IN UKRAINE,,,, BRINGS US AMERICANS BACK TOGETHER AGAIN.... It would be one good thing out of this tragedy. I can hope... **

[@johnedward3404]

@@vodkatonyq does he have to be conservative or liberal... I got the impression that he was in the middle.. and sees things clearly**

[@vodkatonyq]

@@johnedward3404 no, he doesn't have to be either or...I just think that to label Fukuyama a conservative is weird since his main thesis has always been that liberalism is the end of history in a positive light, but ok.

[@vodkatonyq]

@@johnedward3404 I agree with you. His analysis is great.

[@Larindarr]

this is what an actual educated informed conversation looks like. This is what having an opinion (with knowledge on a topic enough to contribute to the topic in conversation) looks like.

[@mabusestestament]

Have you seen his 'interviews' with Robert Downey jr. and Quentin Tarantino? He embarrised himself pretty bad 😊

[@pauleohl]

@@mabusestestament Embarrassing spelling, my friend,

[@oboroth51]

@@pauleohl Embarrassing use of commas, my friend.

[@adabsurdum3314]

Is that by your estimation? What do you know

[@megamillionfreak]

Funny how you failed to notice how he was condemning “Russian nationalistic autocracy” but then the next minute went on to praise Chinese communist autocracy.

[@TheVafa95]

It seems the discussion is limited to "us vs. them" while it should be about *cooperation* and "collective" security for the planet's member states.

[@PeleSahota]

He's got a great voice. Very relaxing. But he ignores environmental challenges, doesn't see corruption as a norm and a few days ago even failed to see democracy / liberalism damaged in the UK ( he didn't want to offend R4 presenters and listeners), even though Johnson and Trump are in the same axis. I don't share his optimism generally, but smart people are always worth listening to even when wrong.

[@JamesC785]

Pele - I tend to think that it is more Dominic Cummings in the UK, he had Bojo in his spider's web.

[@RobBCactive]

I remember him peddling his book around 1990, it was obvious bunk and he is revisionist about the argument he made. The guy has no credibility though he might occasionally hit on a useful argument

[@nomorewar4189]

Smart people are what has brought this world to the brink of destruction pushed to spread their idealism through war and destruction then claimed they were doing it to spread freedom and democracy - which has been hijacked by corrupt politicians worldwide.

[@joincoffee9383]

“Smart” . Whatever it means

[@fezmancomments]

@@RobBCactive Interesting and well informed as he is, I think he’d have a hard time arguing his case against Dr David Starkey. Both are historians who have suffered attacks on their reputation, both refuse to retire quietly - what a battle of minds it would be! Here’s Starkey’s take on The End of History; kzbin.info/www/bejne/naOlZ5KJbLadr7c

[@LowenKM]

You truly can't go home again, and why there isn't a single example in history of any empire successfully _restoring_ its former glory. Even China is noticeably smaller than its former borders of say, a millennium ago, when it once was at the doorstep of Europe.

[@Doug-mu2ev]

Fantastic questions and answers, great long format to actually give brilliant minds a chance to provide compete answers. Thanks!

[@raskolnikov1461]

Foolish men - both of them speak non-sense. The presenter is so happy to cover war like it is something that gave meaning to his life. I watched him for years on Channel 4 and never he was so passionate before and radically one-sided and unfair. The professor is more of a fantast as he totally got the reality of things wrong even by giving his book such pretensive and not a truthful and deeply ambiguous title. Got his guesses in that book completely wrong. Why are they even talking to each other??? Russia is a great and beautiful country that covers the European and Asian mentality so well. If you ever came across Russian people and were lucky to have them as friends - you would know what I mean... The mistake of Ukraine is that they decided to deny Russia respect and shitted on the past with Russia. Engaged in employing tons of American weapons. The naivety of the comedian-actor Zelensky killing his own people. I feel for Russia, please stop demonising it!

[@Doug-mu2ev]

@@raskolnikov1461 Russian people are not being demonized just Putin. But honestly, those Russian soldiers who are just following orders and raping, torturing, and murdering civilians are just a culpable and must be brought to Justice. Russians must demand better than this from their leaders and military.

[@boynamesue7720]

@@raskolnikov1461 Nobody want's to live in fear of their own government.

[@richardwaugh2049]

They are not questions but rather, presumptions and they are not answers but rather fantasies.

[@richardwaugh2049]

There's nothing brilliant about this fraudulent interview.

[@suzannnevin3892]

When a Leader rules their country with love, patience, kindness, with the needs of all their people met , the people are joyfully and submit to their leaders happily . Knowing that the Leader cares about them and all their needs. When a Leader rules with Dominion, Dictorship, Cruelty, Abuse of their own Law Abiding Citizens though fear, 😨 the people will moan and groan hating their Leader.

[@raul0ca]

The problem is people in the 2nd group think they're in the 1st group and people in the 1st group are accused by others of being in the 2nd group

[@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986]

The problem with that is the incentive structure. A benevolent leader who wants to spread resources wide amongst the people will have less for themselves and crucially for the important people who actually keep them in power to begin with. For example if the army generals aren’t paid enough (in their own opinion) they’ll find someone to replace you who WILL give them the money they want even if that means taking it away from the public. All powerful people are still constrained by their need to satisfy the people behind that maintain their position otherwise they will switch sides and depose the leader and get somebody who will do what they want

[@mysticone1798]

Putin's approval rating has soared to 83% since the invasion. What does that tell you?

[@raul0ca]

@@mysticone1798 People taking poll afraid they'll be sent to Ukraine?

[@mysticone1798]

@@raul0ca Dream on. The Russian people are solidly behind Putin. The Fake News media will never tell you that.

[@Ed-Shibboleth]

The man who was wrong about the "end of history". I bet he is right this time. lol

[@greatgalaxy2118]

I doubt this time again, hes too much enveloped with western narrative

[@oceanhome2023]

He is a cheerleader for the New World Order with masks and forced vaccinations !

[@user-kp9of7re9q]

Fukuyama himself not fukuyamaist anymore

[@attackfive8659]

Fukuyama is a strategic beast! He has a rare gift for taking the monumental, and breaking it down so everyone can understand him. The interviewer also plays his part well, queuing the right questions so that Fukuyama can hit each of them out of the park in proper sequence. This is a phenomenal interview!!

[@geoffreywinfield7980]

This interview is a perfect example of why Channel 4 must not be "privatised".

[@TheVafa95]

By breaking down monumental problems we lose sight of the forest. Forest being the entire planet. World has new unforeseen problems, but solutions given are age old solutions. No one seems to be looking at the problem in a holistic way, I.e. planet in its totality as one body say a human body, and every part of the body connected to other parts.

[@ChristopherFynn001]

@@geoffreywinfield7980 Too much privatisation and the power of money is a major weakness of current democr

[@bcanuck]

Is channel 4 an English channel, & if so why is there a foreigner doing the interview? I find his whole demeanor repugnant.

[@imaginemetoo]

Brilliant interview! 👍🏻🇺🇦🇺🇦💪🏻

[@Go-Dawgs]

I really like this show! Great Reporting Sir!

[@raskolnikov1461]

Foolish men - both of them speak non-sense. The presenter is so happy to cover war like it is something that gave meaning to his life. I watched him for years on Channel 4 and never he was so passionate before and radically one-sided and unfair. The professor is more of a fantast as he totally got the reality of things wrong even by giving his book such pretensive and not a truthful and deeply ambiguous title. Got his guesses in that book completely wrong. Why are they even talking to each other??? Russia is a great and beautiful country that covers the European and Asian mentality so well. If you ever came across Russian people and were lucky to have them as friends - you would know what I mean... The mistake of Ukraine is that they decided to deny Russia respect and shitted on the past with Russia. Engaged in employing tons of American weapons. The naivety of the comedian-actor Zelensky killing his own people. I feel for Russia, please stop demonising it!

[@johnedward3404]

**. I've never heard of this man before.... But he seems very sensible and balanced and informed !!!! Something I never get on Fox news... I love that he knows his history,, and lays out our predicament,,,, quite precisely.... Thanks for posting !!!! Such a great interview !!! **

[@raskolnikov1461]

Foolish men - both of them speak non-sense. The presenter is so happy to cover war like it is something that gave meaning to his life. I watched him for years on Channel 4 and never he was so passionate before and radically one-sided and unfair. The professor is more of a fantast as he totally got the reality of things wrong even by giving his book such pretensive and not a truthful and deeply ambiguous title. Got his guesses in that book completely wrong. Why are they even talking to each other??? Russia is a great and beautiful country that covers the European and Asian mentality so well. If you ever came across Russian people and were lucky to have them as friends - you would know what I mean... The mistake of Ukraine is that they decided to deny Russia respect and shitted on the past with Russia. Engaged in employing tons of American weapons. The naivety of the comedian-actor Zelensky killing his own people. I feel for Russia, please stop demonising it!

[@davisburnside9609]

@@raskolnikov1461 also wrong

[@milvan6829]

He did not miss history classes but definitely he is missing the reality.

[@agffans5725]

In Putin-world your reality do not exist.

[@2Oldcoots]

Thank You both for the insights! It is so enlightening to listen to people who have a deep understanding of history.

[@ikongchin3088]

HISTORY (his story) is the whiteman's not the ASIAN , AFRICANS OR PEOPLE OF COLOUR. HERE IN LIES THE PROBLEMS OF THE WHOLE WORLD.

[@carolinacarolina6966]

Do you really think they have it???

[@studiocelestedesign]

Absolutely fantastic thinking from Mr. Fukuyama. Thank-you for the intelligent questions and responses. A relief to hear someone speak exactly the points many of us have made with our own assessments. I've heard innumerable military assessors state that we're only giving enough weapon power to prolong Ukraine's suffering, which culminates in Putin taking what he can which seems a conclusion none of us can stomach. I also realized nukes (while scary in concept) surely are only a stalemate. Putin has murdered so far 16,000 Russian soldiers and 16,000 Ukrainians in the span of 5 weeks. It's very difficult to be sitting on our hands watching more occur each day. As reluctant as we are to realize Putin has pushed half the world into a new era, it seems we have some big decisions to make, while considering possible variable outcomes, and generally crossing our fingers the chips fall in the favor of democracy & liberty for as many of us as possible.

[@kevinwilson455]

I've wanted the UK to pull out of NATO and declare war on Russia from the get-go (good thing I am not a diplomat maybe?). My reasoning is we declared war on Germany for doing the same thing (one of our friendly allies got invaded). NATO is a shield but is not the answer to this level of barbarism. I think the UK should leave NATO and go to Ukraine in full force, with the guarantee we would only fight within Ukraine, and we would not attack Russia directly, or use Nuclear weapons..... but we all know Russia would pull out the nukes, which makes it difficult.

[@kmgdemortimermcintosh230]

What a load of nonsense

[@agustinussiahaan6669]

@@kmgdemortimermcintosh230 This war has no sense either.

[@thinker9115]

"Internally repressive externally aggressive"

[@spikemansss]

The west and free world needs to step up its game, be realistic to be the next step in evolution, which is based on democracy or at least human values. Like he says the democratic countries need to stand together protect the other and invest in cooperation.

[@ericrombouts7698]

the world is rotten by the bullshit news the world media is forever being forced on the public

[@bradhombre6912]

Lots of good thoughts here, but the complacency for defending democracy isn't particularly among young people. If anything, the older generations in the west have been more willing to embrace Putin-like leaders and ideas or even to praise Putin.

[@Go-Dawgs]

I Pray This Man is Advising our Cabinet or at least his voice is heard.

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Probably not, as he is a conservative voice-a conservatism increasingly rare among those that claim to be conservatives. That said, I think there are people in the administration and in the Democratic Party that are aware of him and that share his values of liberal democracy. There was a time not long ago when the right was not so extremist and authoritarian, and conservatives and liberals were not too far apart. We might accuse the Democrats of a similar move to the left, but mainstream progressivism hasn’t shown the authoritarian tendencies of the far left. I am an anti-authoritarian and anti-racist conservative, but this will seem absurd to those who only know our current definition of “conservative”.

[@navasuryareddy07]

Well we normal people can sense that the present society after the Internet age is breaking up and it’s blowing up for wars and unsatisfaction

[@Rnankn]

It’s amazing how after just a month, much of what is being said is out of date.

[@beinghere1494]

Thank you both for the questions and exploring answers, bringing forward possibilities and probabilities. Thank you for your thinking and caring, in short for your humanity 🙏🏽☯️

[@donnacsuti4980]

Thanks for an excellent interview full of important ideas and world problems

[@xenocampanoli815]

This seems like largely reasonable analysis. I would like to see Noam Chomsky's response to it.

[@olegshatrov]

Would be interesting to see Fukuyama interviewed by Chomsky.

[@aurelio-reymilaorcabal9669]

I dont know who Francis Fukuyama is but he has great insights to Russian history and its politics and Putins mindset.

[@danielleng7070]

I will said that again.putin is not a politician and he never was. Hi is a good poker player with KGB agent mentality. For him simply there is no consensus with any one whatsoever.

[@martydav9475]

Yes, he's rigged and fixed elections for the last twenty years with political opponents "falling" from balconies, being found "hanged" being poisoned or imprisoned on trumped-up charges. One of these days Russia will finally be a grown-up democracy which can engage with the world in a sensible and mature way without the paranoid "they're out to get us" nonsense from despots like Putin.

[@We.1014]

All he wants is power to control the world 🤣 Well good luck !! This millennials people wants freedom and democracy!

[@titteryenot4524]

Fukuyama talked of the ‘end of history’ and the ‘last man’ 30 years ago; that is the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalisation of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government, while the ‘last man’ referred to what could go wrong with liberal democracy in the future. If we look around the world we see democracy as a rather fragile thing, liable to crack at populist/nationalist fissure points, as demagoguery maintains or returns to the box-seat in many countries. Taking democracy for granted is highly risky. The ‘last man’ in our current days just sounds plain ominous; especially for Western Europeans who hadn’t really seen an aggressive invasion of a sovereign nation by another since WW2; and when the invading nation has nuclear weapons, then talk of ‘last men’ becomes rather sinister and bleak.

[@clivedarwell5732]

You're saying nothing other than "Oh! Now this has happened" - WHY?

[@titteryenot4524]

@@clivedarwell5732 Summat like that.

[@eamoc]

That's the thing about democracy. Because the majority of people in society are poor, they would always 'put their man in'. But because we live in a capitalist society, with a very elaborate media apparatus, the rich will always be in power. Interesting choice of interviewees, with his End of history Hypothesis, I believe he had to considerably modify his position after the US invasion of Iraq in 2003

[@seanscully4347]

Donald Lamont- You have said nothing in your rangy long dialogue. What is it that you are scared to say?

[@titteryenot4524]

@@seanscully4347 Said rather a lot, actually. Read it again. Read it better.

[@patrickglass9323]

Most Important Interview. So Insightful. Thank you, Francis Fukuyama.

[@joethorn5015]

If peoples' assertion that being forced to take a medicine that they do not want to is a ridiculous and trivial aggression, imagine how ridiculous the concept of speech being a form o "mi roagression" is?

[@stephenwalker2924]

'The End of History', published 30 years ago. When is the sequel coming out? You know, 'Eh, Unexpectantly, History Keeps On Going...'

[@view1st]

Or... The End of History, part 2.

[@subcitizen2012]

History keeps going because people keep making the wrong choices, almost like it's its own automatic force in the world. Fukayama could be right some day. What is it about the appeal of illiberalism and non democratic institutions that compels so many people to make the wrong choices? Fukayama learned from his mistake; are you going to learn from it too? Or are you going to keep making the wrong choices and just to prove him wrong?

[@stephenwalker2924]

@@subcitizen2012 I take no pleasure in proving Fukayama wrong. Perhaps I process less hope than you do for the human species. We must all learn from our mistakes whatever flag we fly.

[@ninyli1]

Great interview with Fukuyama!

[@ninja5411]

Thanks so much for having one of my geopolitical heros !

[@johnheigis83]

For hope...!... In older times, as the neighborhood security apparatus faded from use, in the USA, so went the "mustering", for managing and resolving crucial issues. This can all be brought back on line, in a 21st century context; in part, to restore the "mustering" (now, from a device); and, that, "active and passive civil defense are integral to national security [democratic] posture." (Now, through a "Matrix" NGO; starting with, we millions of Vets, scattered throughout all neighborhoods, to help us build it, with an honorable SOP backbone, for democracy to cling to...!...?). In the USA, "We..." got lazy, and paid others to do it for us. "For, of, by, We"!

[@84Actionjack]

I would say that liberal democracies are not just a limit on executive powers but a limit on all governmental powers to include the judicial and the legislative. The goal should be a self-governing people under a constitutional foundation of law achieved through consensus.

[@stevenambrose2787]

Your obviously not from the USA...I LIVE IN THE USA...LOL..Do more studying about what a democracy is

[@stevenambrose2787]

Majority rules in Federal Government and Majority rules in each individual state...We have Federal, State and Local governments...

[@84Actionjack]

@@stevenambrose2787 Do you really live in the U.S. and yet are unaware of the concepts within constitutional law that seek to mitigate 'rule of the majority'? If a republican majority Congress passes a law and a democrat president vetoes that law, is that really rule of the majority? I think the founders feared that concept and rightfully rejected it.

[@stevenambrose2787]

@@84Actionjack I live in Illinois..Currently the Congress (wrights the laws) and is split 50/50 thus it's up to the VICE PRESIDENT TO BREAK THE TIE....Then the LAW GOES TO THE SENATE FOR APPROVAL TO "CONFIRM" the law...then the PRESIDENT CAN SIGN IT OR VETO IT...YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A DEMOCRACY IS...LOL FOOLISH YOU...GO STUDY

[@stevenambrose2787]

THE population of each STATE elects HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, CONGRESSMAN/WOMEN AND A SENATE. Governors run each State with STATE CONGRESS AND STATE SENITORS voted by the people in each state...more "population" in a state the more CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS represent get elected to go to Washington to represent there people's intrest. The STATE CAN BE DEMOCRATIC STATE OR A REPUBLICAN STATE base on the people's voting choice...

[@duba-uduba-u]

A very thought provoking video.

[@VipVip-yb5ky]

Who are you??? This guy is amazing!!! Clear like Diamond!!! REY!!! Thanks for interview!

[@DangerousDavies2008]

Thank you Ch4 for bringing this interesting gentleman to my attention. Fascinating stuff. I wonder where all this is going?

[@subcitizen2012]

Buckle up, this is Francis Fukayama. There's a history to this historian, but just remember to learn from his mistakes too, as well as the lessons he has for us all.

[@raskolnikov1461]

Foolish men - both of them speak non-sense. The presenter is so happy to cover war like it is something that gave meaning to his life. I watched him for years on Channel 4 and never he was so passionate before and radically one-sided and unfair. The professor is more of a fantast as he totally got the reality of things wrong even by giving his book such pretensive and not a truthful and deeply ambiguous title. Got his guesses in that book completely wrong. Why are they even talking to each other??? Russia is a great and beautiful country that covers the European and Asian mentality so well. If you ever came across Russian people and were lucky to have them as friends - you would know what I mean... The mistake of Ukraine is that they decided to deny Russia respect and shitted on the past with Russia. Engaged in employing tons of American weapons. The naivety of the comedian-actor Zelensky killing his own people. I feel for Russia, please stop demonising it!

[@johnraemusic]

Nice to hear Fukuyama again, his outdated thesis in his book The End of History and the Last Man, which argued that the worldwide spread of liberal democracies and free-market capitalism of the West and its lifestyle may signal the end point of humanity's sociocultural evolution and become the final form of human government. Having worked in the state department during both the Reagan and first Bush administrations, he has no moral high ground to be speaking of the current state of the world IMHO.

[@SF-UK-888]

Well said.

[@adabsurdum3314]

Fair enough

[@cathrynharrison4734]

oh a Trump voter............. humble not you dear

[@johnraemusic]

@@cathrynharrison4734 Me? No, I tend to not meddle in other countries politics.

[@minask5281]

Spot on.

[@slimm_thicc4791]

Incredible perspective I am surprised it has nit been more widely spread: it is informed, reflective of Russian physiology, Putin’s perspective that needs to be understood.

[@stockholm1752]

What an excellent interview. A bit surprised to find it here on Channel 4, but thanks!

[@ivanmatviychuk8440]

It was the greates definition of classical liberalism. Bravo!

[@rimckd825]

Well, have now heard him and I'm not too impressed... guess I need to be trendier and upgrade my definitions... his observations are INTERESTING.

[@RogerSanGabriel]

That dude is a grifter.

[@merocaine]

Francis may have been early with his prediction of the triumph of liberal democracy, he may still be proven right, I'm 50/50

[@live_free_or_perish]

Definitely not a certainty. China and Russia are powerful forces against liberal democracy and sometimes it seems like every time a new democracy arises another one slips back onto tyranny. I would agree the odds are still 50/50

[@BarberJ95]

If liberal democracy is the end all be all… then humanity’s looks bleak. It’s unsustainable and should be transitionary to social democracy and then on.

[@benjijarman]

@@live_free_or_perish The MAGA movement proved that a gullible population is ready to overthrow democracy in the USA. The Conservative movement is stricken with cancerous treason.

[@RobBCactive]

Russia is well into the collapse stage of its absolutist cycle. Many have been tempted by possibility of national corruption, greed swayed many. Long term stability can is achieved by the liberal democratic model, BUT the societies have to reduce inequality.

[@live_free_or_perish]

@@benisrood rephrase that: simple freedoms and democracy are better than tyranny. Are you saying this is incorrect? Why?

[@edgarmondragon4708]

With this war, The End of History can go to the dustbin of History.

[@subcitizen2012]

It did, 20 years ago, and Francis out it in there himself. Fukayama hasn't been a Fukayamaist for some time. It's a solid path to getting your PhD, in case you need a lesson, prove a thesis and then disprove it, then spend the rest of your career trying to live it down past idiots that think they know better in a sentence than entre career studying.

[@godwinmomodu3450]

I think fukuyama has positive ideas about global issues and the needed ideological panacea to remedy the negative political development àround the world.

[@worththewatch1517]

Francis Fukuyama is the same guy who wrote a signed letter for the Intervention and invasion of U.S. in IRAQ. His words dont mean sh&t

[@pars4245]

Nice to see someone calling bullshit on this neo-con chickenhawk.

[@stevenambrose2787]

IRAQ INVADED KWAIT..KNOW YOUR HISTORY.

[@worththewatch1517]

@@stevenambrose2787 Iraq invaded Iran with the support of the West before it invaded Kuwait.

[@stevenambrose2787]

Correct...IRAN INVADED IRAQ and USA GAVE WEAPONS TO IRAQ. USA told IRAQ NOT TO INVADE KWAIT ..BUT THEY DID ANYWAY. RUSSIA INVADED UKRAINE IN 2014 IN D& L AS THE LITTLE GREEN MEN AGGRESSORS...THE AGGRESSION ALWAYS FAILS....RUSSIA'S next to fall...again part 2

[@stevenambrose2787]

Notice NOT ONE AGGRESSOR WON WHEN AMERICANS BACKED THE COUNTRY THAT WAS INVADED...RUSSIA IS FUCKED.

[@-htl-]

It is never good to live in the past. Putin his thinking has no future so it should not be given barring. Especially not by escalating the present conflict however all needs to be done to withhold increase of fundament. Do not believe it is good to keep on speaking in the terminology of the western model or way. We need to think about the free world model and way. Everybody is part of that and everybody contributes to that, not just the 'old' western world. To keep speaking about the western world would be arrogant and disrespectful to the majority of countries who are part of the free world.

[@LESTERAMEADE-mh5rt]

WOW - Probably the best discussion I have read in years! Francis Fukuyama,s insight is just fantastic and leads me to understand better the politics here in the United States. The History of Ukraine I saw previous to this also allowed me to better understand the position of Europe to this WAR! I will have my Grandson read these two presentations - I believe he needs to learn more deeply the reactions of this Ukrainian WAR will have on his future! I,m OLD- so I have no future! LOL🙂

[@roberta9833]

Wow! Great interview! 👏👏👍🙏

[@albretajstain855]

Amazing interview!

[@rajeshswamydhas7870]

One man (Putin) ego has damaged the entire world

[@mihaelacomanescu]

It's not just one man. Putin is the Chief Devil of the moment, the very visible one. There's a whole rat pack controling and dominating all the structures of the Mafia state called Russia. Ordinary Russians have been isolated and brainwashed for 100 years.

[@subcitizen2012]

He's definitely a potent negative force in the world, but he's but one, one of the latest representatives in an centuries' long counter-movement opposed to liberal democracy. It's the ego of the entire movement we have to intend with, which is much much more dangerous than any one individual or national leader.

[@elenashlykova9454]

Opinion of a degenerate)))

[@chrisgreen6259]

This is a fantastic series.

[@Kfuglif]

It isn't a contest between climate change and political unrest. They can both be serious threats at the same time.

[@word2RG]

US is leading the way for human rights save a few smaller countries. Once we take private monies out of our politics, things will improve vastly.

[@lucylane7397]

Are you serious you don’t even have healthcare mandated holiday time or maternity leave

[@capusvacans]

Yeah, the us shouldn't scream to high from the tower when it comes to human rights, simply look at how many ppl your country ends up locking up. What is it again, 10% of the population ends up in jail at least once in their lives. So yeah, not really a beacon of freedom now is it? Except economic freedom, ppl are absolutely allowed to exploit their fellow citizens with little limits.

[@word2RG]

@@lucylane7397 one could simply argue that we have the freedom not to pay for socialized medicine but is that little can of worms all you got? What about TX right not to choose? Yes, things get messy in a democracy.

[@josueluna9942]

Only a child would believe that these wars are fought based on ideology. Good explanation for a 12 year old

[@subcitizen2012]

Money and power can be ideologies too. These ideology's and others motivate Putin, and motivate most of Russia's population too. So, congrats, you've said nothing.

[@josueluna9942]

@@subcitizen2012 Very true. Money, power, greed...some people live by those principles.

[@hootowl6354]

Such clear-headed realism. Makes me want to register for one of his classes.

[@annavillanueva7980]

Prof. F fukuyama...with a very low profile personality but has a very profound analizes....about ukriane and russia....makes me feel less worried.... Do fervent prayers...philippines

[@khurmiful]

Very few things are overplayed like a supposed western liberal democracy.

[@tsumi8233]

Always a pleasure to listen smart people, thanks!

[@hilltop521]

Very interesting man to listen to he has got his homework done and has his fingers on the pulse of the current situation

[@johnheigis83]

Outstanding!

[@mohammadeskandari9513]

Fukuyama: "If I could make one change in the world I would remove Putin". Me: "Yeah, that worked really well with removing Saddam Hussein and Moammar Qaddafi. Such shrewd thinker!"

[@Eire32]

Dictators cause nothing but misery all around them hence Iran 🇮🇷 like the others you said yet I have come to the conclusion that some cultures aren’t fit for democracy and never will be

[@drmodestoesq]

Ask the Iraqis and Libyans how they feel about the ouster of those brutal dictators.

[@Eire32]

@@drmodestoesq how come we Europeans can get rid of dictators and then build a democratic state with rule of law we got rid of your dictators then Arabs go and destroy the two countries from religious extremism and tribalism Arabs are incapable of democracy

[@mihaelacomanescu]

It only shows how deep and widespread evil was in that society: toppling the leader didn't cure the system. Real changes, lasting changes are only those from the grass roots up, when the population assumes the responsibility of change, When people wait only to be given rights they may not receive what they need.

[@OneAdam12Adam]

What's your fucking solution Einstein?

[@fishernz]

Not quite "The End of History" is it?

[@subcitizen2012]

Seems you're stuck in history now because of it. He's known he was wrong for 20+ years. You going to let him live past that and inform you today? Or are you going to continue unwinding history by perpetuating it instead? The right choice is obvious, make sure you make it.

[@TheZombieGAGA]

18:00 core of liberalism. Interesting comments

[@stevencole7331]

I think the key point of a democracy is it's checks and balances . Having political representation by its citizens with equal branches of government . Yes a dictatorial society can be more efficient in getting things done as long as the single leader is making the right decision and in this case Putin miscalculated . We have seen US presidents gaining more power and unilaterally going to war without approval of the legislative branch which is required by the constitution but the loop hole that is not a war but a special military operation as Putin has used

[@johnwilsdon5456]

Moral clarity is everything. The newest Western generations need to understand that madmen can arise. At that point, struggles need to be put aside, with a concomitant response to eliminating the madmen. Then go back to less important liberal goals. Yes, less important. That cannot be debated if you watch KZbin Ukraine videos. Long live Ukraine, forever.

[@cooldudecs]

Ukraine is about oil…

[@davisburnside9609]

@@cooldudecs wrong

[@cooldudecs]

@Davis Burnside madmen like Biden and the democrat bolsheviks are threatening our Supreme Court because of their rejected policies. Putin is not nearly as bad a threat as the leftists in the democrat party

[@davisburnside9609]

@@cooldudecs everything you said is wrong

[@johnwilsdon5456]

@@cooldudecs I love this stuff. Spoken like a true Putin believer. One must ask oneself, why believe a little sick guy who has gotten Russia into such a mess? Many in the leftist Democrat party are the strongest supporters of putting Putin away. Does that mean Putin is a rightest? And if so, isn't he now against that instead of the old " I hate NAZIs thing?" You need to explain stuff more simply - after all, we in the West understand that obfuscation is a tool of the East. Long live Ukraine, forever.

[@stephenamoh6439]

If Ukraine is your definition of democracy, then I'm sorry for the west. They are actually disappointing

[@josephstratti52]

Who thinks that! People are on the side of those who fight for their right to not have their families,homes,livelihoods and freedoms bombed out of existence by a dictator.Whether they live under democracy,Theocracy,oligarchy,monarchy or whatever all people will support others regardless of their governing idiots!The West is not the world people are and any normal person understands right from wrong Rulers are the problem.

[@subcitizen2012]

No democracy is perfect. It's also Putin's definition of a democracy enough for him to consider it a threat. So...

[@SA-ff9uc]

What is this? I was searching for the film 'Fanny Fuck-a-rama.'

[@subcitizen2012]

It's your lucky day

[@dubsar]

I CREATED AN ACCOUNT ON VKONTAKTE (THE RUSSIAN FACEBOOK). NOW I AM TRANSLATING ARTICLES FROM SERIOUS MEDIA COMPANIES AND POSTING THERE. Beware: if you think social media is a toxic environment, Vkontakte is the WORST. Imagine Facebook in Germany in the late 1930s.

[@terrencekane8203]

The ruble is literally worthless and inflation in Russia has tripled in one month. There are food shortages in all eleven time zones, and grandmothers are fighting over the last package of sugar. Hey Russia, you want Soviet Union? You got it.

[@patriotsvnwo5217]

I believe that the Ruble is actually stronger than before the conflict and the stores have plenty of food. Petrol is about $1.50 to $2 per gallon. The UK however is considering rationing gas supply and petrol prices are rising above £7 per gallon. If normal relations are not restored by next winter we will not be able to afford to eat, heat or drive in the UK. Even worse than this I fear people have lost their ability to think for themselves and they believe the propaganda the TV puts out 24 7.

[@terrencekane8203]

@@patriotsvnwo5217 No stock exchange in the world will trade in rubles because of its worthlessness. This is not some bar in Sverdlovsk. Your Russian propaganda bullshit is transparent.

[@borninsoho9710]

@@patriotsvnwo5217 very well said👍 you can see the reality, unlike many ppl here...

[@dafyddaprhys782]

I enjoy listing to this channel: Your questions encourage exploring thoughts and thinking: Thoughts like: What are the most beneficial characteristics of patriarchs throughout history that have greatly encouraged advancement of our civilizations? Would the essence of such a ‘patriarch’ be his ‘will’ by subjugation or his ‘will’ to bestow empowerment of his people. (i.e the difference between management of people verses leadership of people). Volodymyr Zelenskyy clearly demonstrates his leadership qualities that empower his people whereas Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin clearly demonstrates management qualities that restrict/control his people. Two completely different styles of authority... and command.

[@sheilawade433]

Thank you

[@mistieblue9]

At the end of the day, per exemple the end of the WAR is possible or not? How this will be over?

[@subcitizen2012]

When Ukraine wins or Russia loses.

[@wallyoutjers1480]

Uraniums are happy to live their freedom without Russian interference and involvement.

[@huwzebediahthomas9193]

Whoops! Predictive text gone wrong? 😁 Don't think anyone lives on Uranus. 🙂

[@lemdixon01]

@@huwzebediahthomas9193 he's having a Joe biden moment 😜

[@dustym-o-h8349]

By anyone's interference you mean setting up biolabs also 🤦🏽‍♂️ 🇺🇸 💩

[@Kantz1]

Uraniums? On what planet? Ohhhh I think that should have been “Ukrainians”!!! LOOOOL!!!

[@nevmcc3884]

Pulled that outta Uranus?

[@brucesolmiano]

Man.. I really liked the interview up til almost the end where he contradicts the meaning of democracy. Heckling about the people that protests mandates and their freedom to choose. I’m neither liberal or conservative but I guess even older generations choose their own meaning or democracy.

[@steviewonderisnotblind5833]

Don't you have a school council meeting to attend? Don't forget your holocaust memorabilia.

[@cinderball1135]

I think your definition of democracy might be the thing that's at issue here.

[@ogedeh]

Also, liberalism. Remember that it was Reagan who started this "neo-liberal" nightmare we are now living in

[@RobBCactive]

Democracies conscripted soldiers, you are equating political freedom with selfish irresponsibility. Rights come with duties, accepting health measures is a service to protect others, just as being drafted was a duty.

[@RobBCactive]

@@gongagong by reducing your viral replication and infection of others. Your ignorance is not funny

[@cygnusx-1318]

I like this interviewer. He asks good, smart, and hard questions.

[@marie-francelemee8730]

En cela , l' action de Poutine est très louable ! La Russie était un grand pays , avec ses valeurs et son idéal , que les U.S. veulent détruire car leur ambition d' être le pays le plus puissant du monde est incommensurable et la Russie de Poutine ne veut pas en être " l'esclave " ! Poutine possède un idéal avec de vraies valeurs , et il ne veut pas que son pays s' occidentalise , en cela il a absolument raison , car les U.S et l'Occident , depuis quelques décennies , sont décadents !!!

[@r-00g86]

Fukuyama’s views are clearly outdated, his ideas still very much rooted in the old-fashioned views of the US as a unipolar world dominator, taking neoliberal democracy as the one and only best alternative to govern a country. This war is not about Putin trying to expand to the West, this war is about pushing back aggressive NATO expansion against all earlier agreements, this war is about establishing a new multipolar world order with the big Eurasian countries like India, Russia and China taking their own independent views on where the world should go. The US is no longer a serious world power, with their 50+ trillion USD of public and private debt, an impoverished infrastructure and many of their people living in the margin of society, it is on the verge of collapsing very soon. Talking about resentment, it looks more like the US is regretting their loss of position in the world and trying to do everything to maintain part of that position by divide and conquer politics, trying to set up Europe against Russia and sell them oil and weapons. Fukuyama’s one sided views are not really a billboard for Stanford University I would say…

[@71kimg]

Which is exactly what he says - democracies are a threat for Putin and alike - and putin trolls will say things like you say.

[@patrickscott9535]

If they had closed they skies over the Ukraine, the amount of innocent lives lost, would have been much lower. Everyone is worried about a nuclear war, it may happen or not. We cannot be ruled by our fears, when it comes to doing the right thing, and that is protect the innocent.

[@mihaelacomanescu]

Closing the skies over Ukraine means shooting down Russian planes. Ukraine doesn't have planes to do that and their pilots are not trained to fly modern ones. NATO has provided only defensive arms until now, trying not to get dragged into a war with Russia, squeezing Russia economically, hoping Putin would see reason. Trying to avoid escalation of conflict comes at a high cost of human lives and destruction. Let's hope it's not in vane.

[@carol9299]

Poland wanted to give Ukraine Russian migs but USA said no as it would drag NATO in to the war.

[@patriotsvnwo5217]

@@carol9299 Poland didn't say that. The press was pushing for that and Poland relented by saying that they were prepared to swap their planes for US planes by delivering them to Germany. Poland doesn't want to get involved.

[@patriotsvnwo5217]

@@mihaelacomanescu Please don't believe the MSM propaganda but watch the Duran and Patrick Lancaster for front line reports.

[@carol9299]

@Patriot v NWO thanks I got it the wrong way round... yes you are right....

[@jonathanbailey1597]

Not entirely sure his definition of 'liberalism' is correct. Most of the features he describes are found in other systems, and there are many parts (and history) he neglects to mention. Better call Raymond Geuss. He wrote an article called 'Liberalism and it's Discontents' in 2002 that is far more insightful.

[@geekazhoid]

I can't help but realize the weaknesses of Liberalism since it mutes powerful immediate responses in the face of societal calamities and therefore allows the people within a liberal construct to be less secure overall while seeking to enable individual participation in any decision making process. This video would be much more relevant without the continual attempted definition of the confines of the liberal political outcome of the Ukrainian invasion. When it comes to mass murder the conflict's resolution short of outright surrender should take precedence over any preconceived notion of the utopic liberal aftermath.

[@mjouwbuis]

I'm not sure the accuracy of response to madmen like this (or to pandemics!) is really caused by democracy or liberalism, which both have more to do with individual freedom than anything else. Possibly by neo-liberalism which is corrupt, restrictive and regressive, but more likely by the tendency for incompetent or unfit people to float up into power - such as our democratic prime ministers and presidents but also such as Putin or Xi who are definitely not liberal, Liberal or neo-liberal (though neo-liberalism is taking cues from Xi).

[@ExiledGypsy]

The risk of nuclear confrontation might be small at the beginning but the longer NATO delays the more decisive step it increases or at the very least it doesn't definitely decrease. The cynical analysis to consider is that the West is holding back as an opportunity to use it to its own advantage hoping for a lucky break. The only other explanation is fear or lack of options which if true then again, is only going to get worse. Let's not lose sight that the West was already facing substantial problems before the war, like the rise in nationalism, inflation, and failure or the end of the road of the monitory policy. Before the war, a 2008-like financial crisis seemed inevitable that would have been blamed on neo-liberalism. All those problems seem to have taken the back seat now and that can seem rather convenient. However, just like the way the West's policy of surrounding the USSR with Islam (the so-called Green belt) gave birth to a long list of new problems that are still out of control at least in Africa, this short-sighted plaster bandaging is likely to backfire.

[@RobBCactive]

I don't think you're a national security adviser who has war gamed the scenarios out. Rushing in denies time for sanctions, denies time for the Kremlin to see how Putin's strategic incompetence had damaged their security.

[@ExiledGypsy]

@@RobBCactive Maybe you should give your real name before pretending to be a national security advisor. Sanctions didn't stop NK to develope nuclear weapon or Iran to stop & even to bring down Saddam. It only made the population suffer and excuse even more repression. Time is exactly what is increasing the risk of a nuclear reaction. Those who know the Russian chain of command believe that even if Putin ordered a nuclear attack, it would not only be followed but it would end Putin quicker. However no the Russian population feel seiged and think the world is after them. They are rallying round the flag and that is not just the polls. That makes it easier to sell a threat nuclear attack. Putin knows he has passed the point of no return and unless he cares for human life a nuclear attack is getting more and more palatable. Let me guess you are American and not to bothered about radiation spreading all over Europe.

[@ExiledGypsy]

@@RobBCactive WHAT? I didn't misunderstand anything. There might have been a couple of errors in my last text but that was because I was typing it on my phone and didn't bother to double-check it. Sanctions have always proved pretty useless and that is even when they are applied fully which is not even the case here. If anything you misunderstood my point even though I said at the beginning unless NATO takes a more decisive step, i.e. don't just give Ukraine just enough to survive and suffer but really show Russians that the threat of nuclear attack is not going to scare them because if NATO is scared now then why would it be any different if Russians attacked the Baltic states tomorrow?

[@ExiledGypsy]

@@RobBCactive You mean, you misunderstood my comment. Why do people find it impossible to admit that they were wrong? Oh vanity, vanity is the devil's favourite sin because it always gets people.

[@brancee1317]

This war has truly revealed the intellectual depth of Fukuyama... 😂I thought he was an academic not a spokesperson for the powers that be..

[@jaredspencer3304]

6:55, Washington may have no appetite for a no-fly zone in Ukraine, but the latest Pew polls show that the majority of Americans support a no-fly zone. The point you're trying to make is that democracies can't go to war without the will of the people, but this is almost the opposite case, where the majority of people want action that the government isn't willing to take.

[@RobBCactive]

People who support it don't understand what it entails. Ask them if they want to attack air defence sites in Russia and Belarus. Also NATO cannot legally impose one now hostilities broke out.

[@jaredspencer3304]

@@RobBCactive People in a democracy supporting something they don't understand? I guess now I've seen everything.

[@RobBCactive]

@@jaredspencer3304 Pollsters results depend on the questions asked.

[@mihaelacomanescu]

Sometimes people support things in the heat of the moment. I doubt many of those verbally supporting a no-fly zone understand what it entails. I doubt they would support war with Russia in the same %. Many of those who voted for Brexit regretted their choice when they realized they had been disinformed. Only fools rush into war ...or psychopaths.

[@marianlenehan9618]

Brilliant…thank you both

[@SamtheIrishexan]

India needs to be held accountable for its failure to assist the west. They want to benefit from the western order but not support it. The world has divided whether we like it or not and all major countries must choose a side. This war is for the world order. Cut off Russia and China and India as well as any other country. You do not participate in western economy unless you are willing to defend its values plain and simple.

[@yabbagabb00]

Cut off China? Who's done that? Definitely not the West.

[@brucepetersen9585]

Cut of Russia and you already have an energy crisis. Think what will happen if you cut of India and China not to mention the other countries that will support them. Time to think before you act.

[@lordkorner]

Could not agree more.

[@WayneLyons]

Agree in principle but the problem is that the west needs the resources of these authoritarian countries. And even the west doesn't always agree on 'values' unanimously. Look at the way America operates it's economy vs. the socialist tendencies of some European democracies.

[@patriotsvnwo5217]

The West needs Russia's natural resources. If you had bothered to research why Russia had to intervene in the Ukraine then you might understand. Instead the media lies constantly and people like you accept it. Ask those freedom fighters who volunteered to fight for the Ukraine but had to escape when they realised that they were lied to. The media used to report about the N A Z. I S before the conflict but now say its Russian Disinformation! Those freedom fighters that managed to get out found out the hard way. If you want links and sources I will provide them but be quick because censorship is deleting everything truthful unless you look on Rumble etc.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Caricaturing Putin as just some KGB agent is ridiculous, imagine portraying Bush or any of the others as Some C student, or some other simplistic thing. He has not kept that leadership position if he were just an ex cop...

[@subcitizen2012]

Well, it's like like he was appointed yesterday, maybe you ought not forget that. The context of the statement and of Putin being ex KGB was that he came up initially from the security services and was appointed by Yeltsin, this is going on 25 years ago. There's nothing wrong with saying what's true: Putin was ex KGB and that matters, then and now. Him being a leader today, and appointed then, having been groomed from and within the indoctrinated power structures of former USSR is something that matters in terms of looking at Russia in a historical context of where it's been and what it is today. It's not going to be easy to get someone from an old Soviet mentality to suddenly adopt a functional liberalism, and the same could be said for the rest of Russian society. It's even the arguments their intellectuals and public figures make, that Russia is its own cultural and historic entity distinct from "the west," therefore they see themselves as perfectly allowed to not cooperate in a liberal and democratic framework, and do things like throw back to medieval and modern times. It's at once true but also doesn't have to be, but probably the hardest thing for anyone to do in the world is change their own mind, let alone someone else's. This is just some more history playing itself out, unfortunately. Luckily for Fukayama he's no longer a Fukayamaist; the time of the end of history ended some time ago.

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

@@subcitizen2012 Yes, and Reagan was an ex-actor in Hollywood, Bush was an ex c-student, Obama is an ex-community organizer... they all evolved from that as we all do it... Putin didn't "suddenly" anything, he is a dangerous man, it is not like I am FOR him, but dealing with him as just some ex-KGB is highly wrong. The USSR was what it was, the USA was what it was even in recent history, they all change, or are forced to change. I agree with Fukuyama that Liberal Democracy will win in the end, not because it is the perfect thing, or even the "best" thing, but because it is the mass of peoples' desires. If you have seen how many issues the USA has and if that is what "best" represents a liberal democracy, then you know it is just what most people consider the best of two evils. But why think in dualistic terms, let each country become the version of what they want to be, without the USA or anyone forcing them to be what they want, and self serving. How many regimes or elected people has the USA removed though red flag operations, how many CIA operations have there been to take down leaderships that do not want to go along with the USA plans. How many forced loans will the USA impose on nations that they know cannot pay it though their Economic Hitmen!! It is not coincidental that anyone that starts to sell their oil in other than US dollars is taken down, Kadafi, Venezuela, Russia, Iraq, the iron heel feel the same even if you put a sit sock on it. Did Ukraine or did or did not agree to never join NATO?? And is and has the USA trying to meddle in that for years and years, trying to establish a military base and nukes there?? Would the USA sit still if Russia tied to establish ANYTHING on the norther Mexican border?? We know what happen in Cuba, imagine if it were in the USA's souther border!! Or are we thinking honestly that if Ukraine joins NATO the USA will not start there behind the scenes manipulations?? There is no other country in the world that meddles in others' affairs more than the USA, in all types of affairs.

[@mabusestestament]

Isn't that the interviewer who got owned by Robert Downey Jr. and Quentin Tarantino?

[@subcitizen2012]

Being concerned about who owns who is why we're in this mess.

[@vincentgregor]

declaring the "end of history" should have ended his career were he not at Stanford.. obvious to any real historian it's not just outrageous, it's not possible. His has wide knowledge but views are very aligned with US expansionism and not at all much of comparative history and consistency of policy. No mention of the total ignoring of the Minsk agreements, invasions by the US of Libya, Iraq, or freely elected governments in Venezuela, or in Asia including Japan and Taiwan, direct incendiary speeches by McCain or Hillary in Ukraine encouraging revolution, etc.. , or its attacks on the UN, ICC , WHO, as exceptionalist.. Reaching into the internal politics of other countries by Russia may be right, but what about all these by the US and UK, NATO? You need to present competent contrary speakers as well. Taling about biological weapons use by Russia but not US' biolabs?