PV 10/19: Responding to Comments (Superman II)

[@WalkmanWillWalkAllOverYou]

IIRC, Warner were the Ones who also insisted that The Hobbit (which was originally 2 Films) to become a Trilogy. In Terms of Interference, I have yet to see any other Studio worse than them in this Department.

[@integrity101]

4:12 - 4:16 I don't get what you mean. How is he "working for it" in the theatrical cut?? In both versions he grabs the green crystal. In Donners they show you *something* after that. In Lesters version they show you nothing after that. What am I missing? Also, Jor El is not "lying." He has to "die" again for Kal El as he is the only remaining source with that Kryptonian Power. That is why he says "farwell forever Kal El." It was the failsafe, certainly not as Jor el would have wanted. They are obviously more advanced so I don't take that 2nd death of Jor El lightly. There was big consequences. Jor El is gone/dead forever & the Fortress Of Solitude is destroyed. plus if the green crystal is all you need to lose powers and get em back, he could do that over and over. They even use it again in S4 when Superman is dying.

[@adifferentperspectivewithj4458]

What I mean by work for it is that he has to do it himself. Meaning start from scratch and rebuild it with the crystal. Kind of wiping the slate clean and getting a fresh start. In effect, becoming his own superhero rather than one his father wants him to be. Which includes rebuild the chamber to give him his powers back with the green crystal and even build in that failsafe of reversing it. As with Jor-el giving his powers back, I get what you're saying. But it still feels too contrived. It would be lying because if he says "your powers will be gone forever" that's simply not true because there is ultimately a way for him to get them back, even if it means the loss and destruction of the fortress. Even if it is a failsafe, why didn't he just tell that to Kal-el? It was really just by happy chance that Clark decided to put the crystal into the console.

[@integrity101]

@@adifferentperspectivewithj4458 In both movies they say "your powers are gone forever" and he regains them. So you think both parents are lying? I see it different. I dont think it is realistic to assume Jor El would say "your power will be gone forever, but dont worry, if u change your mind ill just die to save you." He wants him to make his own decision of his own free will. Not guilt trip him into doing anything or not doing anything. Are ya gonna tell ur kids dont make that financial decision, youll be screwed, but dont worry if you do ill sacrifice myself to bail you out? See what i mean? Always teaching. Even if he told him, kal el would likely still do it for Lois. If anything hed probably be less willing to kill jor el & regain his powers. In Donners Jor El teaches him one final lesson b4 fulfilling the kryptonian prophecy. When he reverses the earth he becomes his own superhero, not the one his father wanted. Thats why it is in 2 when jor el is gone. Thats why he doesn't interfere with human history until s2. He made a mistake a learned from the brutal consequences. Lesters has no consequences. The Reversing the earth is literally about wiping the slate clean & getting a fresh start as his own superhero. this is one big giant origin story over 4.5 hours. Also in both movies everything involving the chamber is the same. If it required rebuilding & was rebuilt it hapoens in both OFF SCREEN. I'm not necessarily convinced it needed repair. But if it did, its repaired in both by a fully formed independent superman.

[@adifferentperspectivewithj4458]

@@integrity101 In a way, he's already guilt tripping him for abandoning his powers to help the people of earth for his own selfish pursuits, as he calls them. Sure he wants him to make his own decisions but I still think it's pretty valuable info to mention something like that. Maybe tell him, "if you choose to do this, there will be but one way to restore your power. But this will mean the death of me. Think, Kal-el." If anything, it would HELP Clark make his decision about what he's doing. Would it be Jor-el morally holding himself hostage? Maybe. But Clark would truly have to know the weight of his decisions before he makes them, as anyone would. If the reversing time ONLY happened in S2, then you would be correct. However he reverses time in both cases. The Donner Cut even begins with a recap of him doing so. I understand that that was the plan all along to only have it in S2, but we still have to look at it for what we got. At least in the Lester version he actually has to live with what he did. In the Donner cut, he makes it so it didn't even happen. That to me is just taking the easy way out. So even if you could argue that him doing so would make him his own superhero, it doesn't feel earned all that well.

[@integrity101]

@@adifferentperspectivewithj4458 The Donner cut does *NOT* include a recap of Superman reversing the earth or Lois dying. Why would it? It is part 2 to the part 1 script. The filmmakers told the audience this ahead of time. Its the first thing u see when ya push play. It is S2 as *originally intended.* At that point it is up to the audience to recognize this. The recap is showing you where it is continuing from. Delete the 3 minute scene of Lois dying in 1 and you have STM as originally intended. Thats what Donners cut is continuing from. I also generally disagree with the hate about the reversing earth because it is not like thats how he stops Zod or something. He defeats Zod in a brilliant way. He could reverse the earth or not. Honestly i think it works both ways. They wanna add that to complete the arc that began in 1 so thats cool to me. As for Jor El telling Kal El that there he could get his powers back just wouldn't work. It would be lame for the audience and i dont believe it would change Kal Els opinion in any way. They even address this in the films when clark says "he knew, i just wasn't listening." So right there ya know he would of done it anyway. When he finally realizes he made a mistake he's not screwed because Jor El prepared for the fact that a lonely Kal El may want to live as a human. Its not a stretch at all. Makes perfect sense to me anyway. Also in both versions he has to live with what happened. Reversing the earth changes the experience for everyone but Superman. So either way Superman has to live with his mistake. Its not like he erased his own memory. Look at the consequences. As for Zod in jail or zod in the phantom zone is not really much different as far as Superman living with the consequences. Anyway thats my take on it. Thanks for explaining your perspective.

[@kirok2011]

Touche , I missed the the response section of this , Well I am sort of Biased I admit it , I too Prefer the theatrical cut of the film although I did like the ABC version released only on tv in the 80's and 90's , There are a few scenes within the Donnor Cut that could of been used, But it's not a make or break it type of deal. So let's review Donnor was (RIP) a great Director I am not taking that away from him , But The theatrical version on this movie holds up and here's why. First I love the idea of Clark revealing to Lois on his own terms , her stance has been known , But for one brief moment he allowed his human heart and yes Human , he was raised human , to intervene finally the kiss vs time travel ,time travel , it was ridiculous in the first film. as idiotic as the kiss is , it still beats the time travel theory

[@adifferentperspectivewithj4458]

He truly was amazing director. And even though there are some stuff in the theatrical version I could have done without, it is still the best version of the two in my opinion. The love story is better developed and some things just make better sense.