Q&A: Is the bible literally true? Tim Keller

Timothy Keller was born and raised in Pennsylvania, and educated at Bucknell University, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and Westminister Theological Seminary. He is pastor of the Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan, which he started in 1989 with his wife, Kathy, and three young sons. Today Redeemer has nearly six thousand regular attendees at five services, a host of daughter churches, and is planting churches in large cities throughout the world.
This is a free download from Redeemer.com

[@baabaa1000]

@mikeisi Thanks! Tim Keller is awesome. I'm glad you enjoyed this video :)

[@navarrodragon25]

3 things: 1. Millions...really? is that fact in which you happen to know these people or just a guess? 2. What do "millions" have to do with you personally? this millions issue almost sounds like a way to side step or excuse your exposure to the gospel which now you can justly be held accountable for. 3.I have an Iraqi friend who never read a bible and no one had ever told him about Jesus. One day Jesus appeared to him in a dream and told him to follow HIM. Now he is a christian in the U.S.

[@baabaa1000]

@atthehops forgive me if i miss your point here. but i think i can agree with you that (extreme) fundamentalism can be the cause of many evil things. but i don't think that having a fundamental belief in anything necessarily gets you evil deeds. the amish are as fundamental christians as anyone has ever seen, and they aren't starting wars. you seem to have a very fundamental belief that people ought not take the bible literally. should i put the cause of wars at your feet? that would be unfair.

[@mrtadreamer]

Is the bible literally true? Yes.

[@atasmaly]

You have to to be insane to believe the evolution. What's harder to believe that nothing created everything and we came from a rock that evolvd, or God made us in his image.

[@mikeisi]

@UMANEDAKIDD19 but your speaking of 'talking animals' as if the bible doesn't speak in regards to Natural and Miraculous (meaning where God intervenes to perform something un-natural). So ultimately what your really saying is "miracles don't happen"...to which I'd ask what is basis you hold to? Is it simply because you in your tiny amount of time here so far on in the midst of the vast history of the earth have never been an 'eye witness' to?

[@Scratcher1960]

Don't really want to get into a debate on historicity. Been there done that and never regained the lost time as a result. I was merely pointing out that according to the Biblical account Jesus came to fulfill the requirements of the law. Matthew's gospel account records this.

[@navarrodragon25]

in my research it seems as though lukes account is inaccurate in the timing of herod /census... OR the handful of historians that speak to this timing are in error. Most skeptics of the bible will often say that the bible has to have errors because it was written by faulty humans . With that same logic,or accusation if you will, I believe that it is possible for a historian,who is also an imperfect or faulty human, to also be in error. So which humans do you put your faith in? back to Square 1

[@cufflink44]

This is a perfect example of what's called False Dichotomy. The speaker presents a situation and claims there are only two possibilities, A and B. If it's not A, it has to be B. So in this case, either Luke is lying or he's telling the truth. If he's not lying, then he's telling the truth, and we have to believe his gospel as representing the literal truth. Is there another possibility? Of course there is. Luke may be--and probably is--telling us what he THINKS is the truth. That's not the same as lying, which is intentionally telling a falsehood. Religious people are often delusional. That's nothing new. Luke and the other biblical writers are telling us their delusional version of the truth. That doesn't mean that we, 2000+ years later, need to believe them.

[@Jiggelmeister]

cufflink44 I mean it was an academic undertaking, not just his opinion so...

[@mikefishermagic]

well if it comports with the other accounts and hasn't been corrected by other observers then it does fall into one of those two categories. Just like a newspaper today, an article would be refuted or corrected - in fact more so because there were fewer documents (and true, fewer readers) back then, but both oral and written history was held to a much higher standard.

[@ob2249]

@@mikefishermagic how do you know oral and written history were held to a much higher standard ? of course you don`t. you can`t possibly know that. its a value judgement. the fact bogus stories and nonsense pervades the bible is also testament to the opposite.

[@baabaa1000]

@atthehops i've seen this kind of objection to christianity too often on the internets. it implies that christian thinkers have somehow missed these problems with the old testament and moved on, while intrepid secular thinkers have caught onto the fibers that unravel all of christianity. i'll submit to you here that this is not the case. check out paul copan's book 'is god a moral monster?' it does a great job of answering the objection you level here. hope it helps.

[@navarrodragon25]

I'm sorry,but if you simply had a disagreement with the bible based on a misunderstanding about the bible or the people who are supposed to follow the bible, being that they are christians, then I thought I could help you sift through some of these hard toopics... BUT if bent on NOT believing the bible at all, we could go reply all day and no minds would change. I know you don't know me but my faith is not only based on the bible and supported by evidence but I have also experienced God.

[@navarrodragon25]

which gospels were written in the first century...even if they were later copied. what special book did tatian harmonize them into..did it have a name? I know the scriptures were not canonized hot off the press but if you study the books that were later canonized it is obvious that the books included harmonized on their own..no one had to make them harmonize. Do the dead sea scrolls prove anything to you?

[@atthehops]

What is the bible? How did it come into being? What about all the of gospels and writings? Why did they not make it into the bible? You're making this about me and not about the points I am making about the topic at hand; whether the bible is literally true. It's not. It is that simple. Why would you pass on learning about the historical inaccuracies of the bible? Would it not make you a better christian to know?

[@atthehops]

I'll pas on reading the bible again. Robin Lane Fox notes how Luke irretrievably muddled his nativity story by tying Herod's reign with a census conducted under Governor Quirinius of Syria, not aware that Quirinius, and the census vital for moving Mary and Joseph from Nazareth to Bethlehem, were separated from Herod by at least a decade. Keller suggests the bible was written by "journalist" and "reporters" Far from it.

[@navarrodragon25]

you are right when you say that more will be in heaven than in hell...that is mostly because of the rejection of the truth and not the lack of exposure to it. Do you know History? Read and cross-reference the commentary on Acts.Specifically chapter 18. You will find that claudius caesar declared and edict banishing all jews from Italy because of their uproar over Christ. Maybe read Marcus Aurelius' letter to the Senate. Christianity is NOT at all "western" at its beginning.

[@navarrodragon25]

Read the Matthew Henry commentary on Romans 2. It gives clear context. Secondly, Galatians 3 speaks the EXACT opposite of what you are saying about jewish law. In order to become a christian/born again/ saved you have to have faith(the greek word means to be persuaded) that Jesus died for the sin of jews and gentiles(pagans) alike,that He was born of a virgin and that He rose again after three days. All faith and NO religious custom would/could merit salvation. Jesus is clear on this.

[@atthehops]

Actually "Billions!" The point here is that Christianity is a western thing. Since the beginning of time those that have been Christian a relatively few. You really need to explain how your god plans to deal with all of these souls, many of which predate Christian times. By my count there are more soul out of heaven than in it. Souls that never got a fair deal from your god because they had no way of knowing about him.

[@navarrodragon25]

...and romans 1:19-21 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

[@navarrodragon25]

Romans 2:14-16 addresses this: 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel....

[@atthehops]

You're just plain "WRONG." The bible is not just a translation. To think it is is naive at best. It is a compilation to writings that were intended by its creators to achieve a particular story. Many other writing, gospels, were left out because of this. But you do not address the main issue. What about the billions of people that never hear the word of the bible, or of Jesus? Tell us what happens to them?

[@navarrodragon25]

many don't know what country won an olymplic medal for the first time ever but over one hundred thousand people celebrated like crazy when it happened. There are probably millions that never heard of the guy but what does that prove?... NOTHING! I DO agree with you though that,like MOST everybody else, many do NOT read scholarly books about the bible including the bible itself considering that actual scholars(jewish rabbi equivalent) wrote and recopied the bible and also have translated it.

[@navarrodragon25]

mosaic law versus the law of Christ/love. There are mosaic laws that are carried over to the law of Christ.(ie murder)The mosaic Law though was to restrain the sin of the spirtually dead but ultimately to no avail. Through faith though, when our spirit is brought to life again(born again), those whose trust is in the Lord are empowered by the Holy Spirit to obey out of love for Jesus all HIS commands. In our humaness(flesh) we don't do this perfectly but could IF we always walked in the spirit.

[@atthehops]

@baabaa1000 "There are those who will claim the Koran is not to be believed but the Bible should be and visa versa. And these are not the only so called Holy Books." You have nothing but belief and faith to base any of this on. And it is merely and accident of birth that causes you to chose one over the other. I are not saying you have studied both the Bible and the Koran, or Quran, and found truth only in the Bible.

[@atthehops]

@baabaa1000 Other's can read that book if they take the Bible seriously and literally. I don't and that seems to be a problem for some. There are those who will claim the Koran is not to be believed but the Bible should be and visa versa. And these are not the only so called "Holy Books." The world is full of fundamentalism to the point that burning the books can start wars. It issue is not the books, the issue is the people that read them and believe they are the word of god.

[@atthehops]

If you wanted to follow the hundreds of arcane and obscure laws that are in the Bible, there is the law in Leviticus, "You cannot shave the corners of your beard." The Bible says that you cannot touch women during certain times of the month, and more than that, you cannot sit on a seat where a menstruating woman has sat. The Bible says you cannot wear clothes made of mixed fibers. No gossiping, no coveting, no lying. And perhaps the clearest example of this is stoning adulterers.

[@navarrodragon25]

Is it inaccurate that historically there was a man named Jesus of Nazareth ?(translated of coarse) That He died on a cross because pontius pilate put Him there because the Jews demanded it? Was buried and after the third day rose from the dead?... while the Jews paid the roman soldiers to say that His disciples stole Him from the tomb while they slept?

[@atthehops]

That's it, one verse in the whole bible and it isn't even the words of Jesus? The verse you quote here is, for the most part, taken out of context. At the time becoming "Christian" required one to follow the Jewish law and be circumcised. To say it addresses this is a stretch. My guess is that you have read the bible but know little about its origins.

[@atthehops]

Millions of people live their lives and never hear a word of the bible. Billions more lived lives, and dies without ever knowing about Jesus or the bible. It would appear that there really is nothing that special about it. This is especially true of the heavily edited versions in English that most Christians read. Do many ever read scholarly books about the bibles history?

[@atthehops]

This is only one of the inconsistencies in the story of the birth of Jesus; taxes at the time were of property and Joseph had not property in Bethlehem, the Romans did not require people t travel to the city of their lineage, why would a pregnant Mary travel with Joseph if it was not required, was King Herod even king at the time, etc?

[@navarrodragon25]

if your dead set on not beleiving you will find anything to support what you want..and I am sure you could say the same of me... I only want to inform the misinformed and erase all presupposition or preconcieved notions...BUT if you are SET in your position have at it.

[@bettertvreceptionwithfoilf7100]

In the King James Bible, Matrix has replaced womb. There are mufflers, tires, and hoods in the Bible. Jesus is wearing a girdle around his paps. Strong men are able to produce breast milk. Unicorn has always simply meant rhinoceros or oxen, though both are different animals. Paul robbed other churches according to 1st Corinthians 11:8 Proverbs 26:10 now states that God rewards the fool and the transgressor. Does God really reward fools and transgressors? 1st Corinthians 11:4 is instructing to follow another Jesus and another teaching. So if someone comes along teaching another Jesus, according to this passage you would do well to follow them. James 1:25 no longer talks about being a doer of the word. Now you need to be a doer of the work. Frying pan isn't in the Bible but Fryingpan is, in the 1611. I guess I'm 1611, frying pans were so popular they made it into a compound word? Why would mortgaged be in the Bible? How come suburbs is there? Stuff? Stuff is there many times. The crippled man at the pool was now told by Jesus to pick up his couch, not his bed. Couch. I've been observing these changes since 2015. Problem is, I can't get anyone else to talk to me about it.

[@alln205]

I like when Tim speaks of "genres" of writing. Problem is that I don't think that the genre of recording history that is dependent of Greek metaphysics really means anything. Whether or not something "really happened", as in for example a fact of linear time history, to me is a big waste of time when it comes to religious concepts. Anyone can claim anything to justify a religious position as a fact. Certainly what matters most is what that religion is teaching, what are its goals, what are its benefits, who its target audience is, and that a particular expression or claim of this religion ends up being good and making lives, including others not involved in this religion- t"he other", better.

[@daleivester2824]

The underlying 7s are enough but the prophecy in SCRIPTURE IS NAIL IN THE HAND. Check out Shroud of Turin. Or ivan panins work. But as for me JESUS SHOWED UP IN MY LIFE ON SEPT 29, 1992 AND AGAIN 1 YEAR LATER .. I RECIVED THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST AND MY DOUBTS WERE TAKEN AWAY ONCE AND FOR ALL. I HOPE THIS HELPS SOMEONE

[@atthehops]

If you continue to ignore the question about whether you ever read ANYTHING about the history of the times, what is the point of replying to you? You know nothing but what you read in the bible, right?

[@schifahrer123]

@eVVVVV He merely took the amount of time to answer proportional to the magnitude of the misunderstanding on the subject.

[@TheGizmoskate]

Way to avoid the question, Tim! You did a little apologetics silly dance right around the meat of the question! IS THE BIBLE LITERALLY TRUE OR NOT? YES/ NO WILL WORK!

[@atthehops]

Re: "you seem to have a very fundamental belief that people ought not take the bible literally." I do? What is Keller saying? I specifically wrote, "...to the point that."

[@WIllyGilly321]

Christians seem to insist that the Bible is a word for word perfect reproduction of what God said - says. Where does this come from within the Bible's teaching itself? Why is it Biblically required for the Bible to be exact? Why can't there be embellishments as long as God's plan for salvation is correctly represented? NO OPINIONS PLEASE.

[@tonedawg1983]

The bible isn't a word for word dictation! The early church father knew this and it didn't bother them a bit because the church came before the bible!

[@WIllyGilly321]

tonedawg1983 I thought that what I already said in a round about way.

[@mikefishermagic]

Show me any document in history that isn't the case with. Even video can be 'spun' to make the reality appear one way or another...even by setting a context with the same intro the same video could be interpreted differently. If the Bible were a false document designed to (do what? Control people?) the writers/editors would need to coordinate over 1600 years and they've done a poor job because their pitch is awful just look at Luke 9:23..How appealing does that sound? Don't get me wrong, people have ABSOLUTELY used it to try to control others! People use anything with power to try to control others. And to what end? To spread their dogma? Ok, I think that's an oversimplification but looking at the different dogmas being presented I'd still pick the Christian one: if you read it for its own sake the point of the entire New Testament is an invitation and encouragement to get off your can and give your life away for the betterment of others.

[@kar3n35]

I believe every word is true. Is journals, and history, is event records, is a messege, is a criminal code for the kingdom.

[@TC_83]

So you literally believe... Jonah lived in a giant fish for 3 days? Men lived for over 900 years? The river Nile was turned in to blood? Talking animals (Snake and Donkey).?

[@navarrodragon25]

you insisted I adress the "millions" that never heard of Jesus and I did but now I wonder: if in your estimation the bible is NOT true then why would it matter if millions heard. Another thought:Adam had no bible but he disobeyed a direct command. He,for one, was held accountable in order to satisfy the justice of God. So is it hard to trust that God would/has deal/dealt justly universally considering what you have seen on earth...is that why you raise this objection about the millions?

[@navarrodragon25]

I looked back at our posts. My first point was to say the those "arcane" laws were fulfilled in Jesus. Those "written" codes were cancelled on the cross like a dept. There are laws that carrried over that are referred to as the "moral" code. Those are reaffirmed by Jesus and His disciples in the new testament. Colossians 2:13-15 & Romans 7:6 When I gave you scriptures to refute your comment about "becoming a christian" all you had to say is you'll pass on reading the bible again. ...

[@atthehops]

All of these writings need to be examined in order to understand anything. The more one examines the texts that are dismissed and not included into the current bible the more one understands that there are inconsistencies, as we should expect. Its important to note that Jesus never wrote down anything. What is reported to be Jesus's answer to Pilate when he is asked if he is the son of God?

[@navarrodragon25]

it is true that i know more of what is written within the pages of the bible than outside sources. But I have studied outside the bible and crossreferenced it. It sounds like you have read more outside the bible than inside so maybe I could learn form you and vice versa.Per your historical claims, I am looking into them and you are right to say that it will make me a more informed christian... I wouldn't say "better" though...so let me study your points and get back.

[@atthehops]

Let tackle this issue directly. Keller, in this video, speaks specifically about the accuracy and literalness of the Gospel of Luke. The book "The Unauthorized Version" by Oxford University scholar Robin Lane Fox address the accuracy of the gospels including Luke's, specifically, the birth of Jesus, on pages 27-34. He concludes that even if the was a census and tax issued by the Romans, who ruled over Judea where Bethlehem is, it did not include Nazareth, part of Galilee.

[@atthehops]

quoting from Fox's book, page 30: "There is a contradiction in Luke's story: if Quirinius was governor, the Roman census is credible, but Herod is a mistake." This brings into question the story of the Wise Men and the Flight to Egypt in Matthew's Gospel. And again this is just one small point, there are hundred of other examples. What do we believe, historical facts or the bible? Do we believe one book because we are told it is the true "word" and ignore all the others or read them all.

[@navarrodragon25]

come now. I am aware there was a filtering through of religious writings. Many of them, though deemed to contain some truth,were not rendered as scriptural or in other words inspired by the HOLY SPIRIT. I have heard of the catholic books that are not in the canon and I have heard about the "gnostic gospels". the names of the codexes I have come across but the slip my mind ..wasn't there a vatican codex? A two week blitz course on worship histrory and theology didn't allow too much to stick.

[@switzerlandful]

I hope u realize that those laws were not meant for us. They were for the Hebrews long ago. Trying to make them look stupid by showing their impracticality today is a rather big misunderstanding.

[@atthehops]

Sorry, its "Pagels." She writes, that there are some 4,000 books editions, articles and reviews in the last 30 years concerning the research on the text from Nag Hammadi. "Yet even the 52 writings discovered at Nag Hannadi offer only a glimpse of the complexity of early Christian movement. Keller asks us accept what we have today is "literally true." What is true is that a man named "Yeshau" was put to death by Pilate. This much we know for certain.

[@navarrodragon25]

"again"...does that mean you actually took the time to unbiasedly read the whole bible cover to cover comparing scripture with scripture using correct hermeneutics... You can't tell me you memorized it and are for certain of what it says in reguard to all these topics. I already caught you in error about what is says about becoming a christian. Why would you pass on reading the bible again if this is our subject matter. I think(could be wrong) that you are afraid to be wrong about what it says

[@atthehops]

When was he born? That's a trickier question than it should be. Grab a bible and read along. According to Luke, that would be during the first census of Israel by Quirinius, governor of Syria (Luke 2:2). According to Matthew, that would be during the reign of Herod the Great (Matthew 2:1). The problem? Quirinius' census got underway in 6 CE. Herod had been dead for a good decade. Apologists occasionally try to wiggle their way out of this one by manipulating the text. But serious scholars, including believers, acknowledge the discrepancy. Let's check out the resurrection of Jesus. The oldest Gospel, Mark, does not say that Jesus resurrected at all in its original form. The resurrection was added at a later date. Most bibles even footnote within the text that the resurrection portion does not appear in the "earliest manuscripts." My childhood bible, an Evangelical-approved NIV translation, actually drew a line dividing the portion from the rest of the text. All four Gospels do reference an empty tomb. But not a single one agrees with the others on who actually saw it (Matthew 28, Mark 16, Luke 23-4, John 20). Mary is either alone, with another Mary, also with Salome or maybe with Joanna too? It seems we're dealing with an unreliable narrator. www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-sosa/jesus-is-just-a-myth-tell_b_5749472.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

[@navarrodragon25]

Every man will be judged according to all they HAVE been shown. If one has been shown the gospel,(the good news of Jesus Christ) then He will be judged accordingly.

[@atthehops]

No challenge to the fact that you know little about the historical perceptive of the bible? Read "The Unauthorized Version" by Oxford scholar and historian Robin Lane Fox.

[@atthehops]

Wasn't this sold to us as God's laws? Whose to say what we keep and what is to be discarded, or whether it is best to discard the whole thing? Let's rewrite you statement and say, "I hope u realize that (that God or that religion) was not meant for us. It was for the Hebrews long ago."

[@switzerlandful]

"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard."-Leviticus 19:27 - - Hair was often used in divination among the ancients, &for purposes of religious superstition among the Greeks;& particularly about the time of the giving of this law.Sometimes it was in honor to a certain deity. The Hebrews, in order to separate them from the neighboring nations, or perhaps to put a stop to some existing superstition, were forbidden to imitate this practice.

[@atthehops]

"Not until 170s do we happen to know of a Christian who assumed that the 4 gospels, the 4 in the current bible, were special: it was that that Tatian harmonized the 4 into a special book." Before that in 140s Marcion, who thought that one would suffice, the third. But he edited it a bit. Meanwhile other Gospels continued to appear, the Gospel of Truth and many others. This was a century after Jesus lived.

[@atthehops]

For you this book of new and old testaments just suddenly appears out of nowhere. Even the question of which the books were to be included into 'Old Testament' were in dispute for 325 years. Originally the 'books' (scrolls, and not the codex used by christian) of Judith and Ben Sira were included an Nicaea. What were the first or earliest codex of the New Testament?

[@atthehops]

Re: Jesus taught many times in his ministry.... Name one such teaching that has not been corrupted by oral history and then translated and re translated to conform to the very BELIEF others intended to create. We have not account from Jesus himself, He never wrote any teaches. The accounts we do have are not even first hand accounts. Have you read any historical accounting of the bible stories? Probably not. This amounts to blind faith.

[@atasmaly]

If God made the universe and everything in it. don't you think would make sure that his word is true 100% from cover-to-cover?

[@atthehops]

Faith is: "complete trust or confidence in someone or something." I see that your faith is strong enough to not be shaken by the errors that may have been passed down by those forming a new orthodoxy. May I recommend another book to you since you mention Nag Hammadi. There is an older book by Elaine Pagel, "The Gnostic Gospels," although any of her books are worth reading.

[@brendos444]

"Reporting" is certainly not a genre of any book in the canon. Yes, there are historical accounts. But the ancients always read more into the story than just the surface concrete description of events. I take his point about Luke. But what about John's Gospel, which could also be described as an historical account, but clearly there are many theological points being made very intentionally that invite the readers to dig deeper. Look St Paul's allegorical interpretation of the Hagar and Sarah story. Those who take a "reporting" view of the Genesis narrative would not be able to make any sense of what Paul is doing in Galatians. So yes you have to affirm a historical narrative where this is implied (or even asserted as in Luke's case), but you still have to look at the deeper theological meanings like what Paul does. This does not sit well with Protestants who assert the perspicuity of Scripture because only highly trained, mature and deeply spiritual men and women can discern the mysteries in the text. If you say that everyone can read the Scriptures, then you downplay the kinds of things that St Paul does in Galatians 4. This reading of Genesis is inexplicable biblical literalists. This is why they get just about everything wrong. We need spiritual guides like priests and bishops, those who have wisdom to teach us the Scriptures. Not an ideology of everyone can read it and understand it. The Ethiopian eunuch need explanation. So do we all. Protestants are beholden to their own reading supplemented by scholastics. The Traditional Communions look to the Fathers of the Church, the priests, the bishops and reputable, approved teachers. The difference is the Church. The Scriptures are to be read and understood in the community of believers. Not detached historical grammatical method that conservatives rely on.

[@navarrodragon25]

I made a few comment that were intended for you but I accidentally made them in reply to myself.. so anyways check 'em out if you like.

[@duncandeng1335]

I dare you read The Gospel of the Holy Twelve. And ask you, when we human still suffer so much after our Saviour was here since two thouseand years ago?

[@The_Enchanted_Garden]

@breenhill how can someone writing 100 years later be a reliable attestation of the gospels? DUH!

[@drumrnva]

"Is it a play? Is it a story? Or is it reporting? It's hard to know. " Yes. Yes it certainly is.

[@2222pauline]

@mikeisi YOU ask why did I direct my question to you? I ask WHO DO YOU THINK JESUS IS?

[@atthehops]

@baabaa1000 LITERALLY! That is the title. Perhaps Keller needs to read Paul Copan

[@mikeisi]

@2222pauline agree. why'd you direct that at me?

[@Scratcher1960]

Jesus came as the fulfillment of those laws.

[@Scratcher1960]

Sorry...................Not biting.

[@2222pauline]

@mikeisi JESUS is GOD 1TIM 3-16

[@Mart-Bro]

maybe it's a bit of both.

[@crazyprayingmantis5596]

We have NO original manuscripts. So how can anyone say the Bible is literally TRUE if we CANNOT ever really know what it originally contained?

[@mandymoo9204]

Crazy prayingmantis i totally agree people tell me to read the bible to find god how can u totally belive it and give your life to it x

[@ThePrrfan]

@Cousinsjay So who wrote it then?

[@goodbug53]

wow 12 years ago, cant beleive this is 12 years i hope you now know the answer if not then search it up and God bless man !

[@Drudenfusz]

The idea of how a journalist operates is quite new, two mellenia ago no journalistic work ethics existed, so don't apply those we have today on people in the past which didn't had them.

[@darrylnettleton5153]

really?? do you think that Luke didn't mean what he said in his gospel

[@Drudenfusz]

Darryl Nettleton You are aware that meanings of words change with time, are you saying Luke looked into the future and used our definitions today? I am pretty sure he had good reasons to use the words he used, but that was almost two mellenia ago, and much has changed, like how we view journalism today. Back then we had plenty of gods in pretty much every narrative, so would that mean all those stories would also be true? Or why is only this story true? Or does everything I tell become true just because I say it is? If so, I am telling you the truth, so now believe me blindly!

[@Drudenfusz]

***** Yes, most media has even today no journalistic integrity, but that still doesn't make the story about Jesus true... or should I say stories, since there are quite a few differences between the four gospels. So, each of those is already an interpretation of what might have happened there (even people who actually witness things are not necessary reliable sources, since our brains automatically puts emphasis on things in our perception which lead to quite subjective views on events). And even with mainstream media being mostly just about violence and catastophes, that doesn't mean we also tell stories about good people who change the world for the better, although that mostly happens in more fictional medias, like novels and film... but in the end every story that is told is just a fiction regardless on how much truth it might have once been based.

[@mikefishermagic]

Journalist absolutely did exist. Their distribution wasn't the same but yes they had journalists, and fiction writers, even fan fiction!

[@atthehops]

My points are not simply directed to you as much as they are directed to the larger audience here at KZbin. Listen to the video again and you'll hear Keller "frame" the the question "as if" Luke is a reporter giving a first hand account. Many believe this to be the case,but its just not so. Luke was not a witness to the events and know about them only through second hand accounts, the perceptions of another. And even this was reshaped several times via translations.

[@atthehops]

Who was Matthew's editor(s)? That's who shared the facts to fit the story. My point is, the Bible cannot be taken literally without consideration of the historical. The Bible suffers from the same problem inherent in the children's game of "Telephone;" the retelling reshapes the message.

[@atthehops]

Well I respectfully disagree that there is evidence that he fulfilled them. For example, the story of Jesus being born in Bethlehem lacks evidence and seems improbable. There is no historical evidence of any tax that would have required Joseph to travel with a pregnant wife to Bethlehem. See Robin Fox Lane's book "The Unauthorized Version" for the historical details. Translations and the scribing of oral history changes the facts to fit the story. This is certainly the case here.

[@5T4RSCREAM233]

Seriously? You have over generalized and rationalized... there are many examples that show the Bible is not literally true. Any example given to you though will receive a response like... "Oh but that is the Old Testament" or that is Paul or what have you... always a rationale but never a qualified response. So I give you one from Paul the mystic who wrote this... 1 Timothy 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." Now don't come back and say... "OH, but that is Paul"... TOO LATE!!! It is in your Bible you claim to be literally true! It is certainly not a play... and you are not allowed to pick and choose what you like and dislike from the Bible... the books have been chosen... and not by God of course... by the canon (MEN). You cannot pick or choose now! Too Late! or your argument about the bible falls apart. How about you actually go and look at other ancient texts of various religions and philosophies and you will discover that they also wrote in Parable! And I leave you this from JESUS in the bible... Matthew 13New American Standard Bible (NASB) Jesus Teaches in Parables 13 That day Jesus went out of the house and was sitting by the sea. 2 And [a]large crowds gathered to Him, so He got into a boat and sat down, and the whole crowd was standing on the beach. 3 And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. 6 But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 Others fell [b]among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 And others fell on the good soil and *yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty. 9 He who has ears, [c]let him hear.” An Explanation 10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11 [d]Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. 12 For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 [e]In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘[f]You will keep on hearing, [g]but will not understand; [h]You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; 15 For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.’

[@mikefishermagic]

the Bible isn't one book, it means "library" (biblos) so yes, it's entirely appropriate to cite different genres within it. And one can tell which is which (depending on the age of the book as Tim points out) which genre it belongs to.

[@sngscratcher]

We instinctively know that God did not create evil, even though the Bible says “he” did. We instinctively know that God does not send bears to maul children for name-calling, and yet the Bible says “he” did that, too. (And the list goes on - and on, and on and on.) With these thoughts in mind, it's time we realize that much of the Bible represents a convoluted mass of conflicting, fear-driven gibberish. If you want to know the truth about what "God" is, look within. That's where you will find "him" because that is where your connection with "the source consciousness" lies. Many if not most of the bizarre old stories in the Bible only confuse the essential purpose of our lives, which is learning to love our neighbors - even our enemies - like the man says. The rest of it is a pointless distraction. Cheers.

[@chrismachin2166]

Tim Keller is a man I have kept clear of during my regenerate life.I put it down to correct discernment.