Q&A: Why Do Powerlifters Grow Better Than Bodybuilders?

[@ShawnGetty-eb1gj]

Dante Trudel said it best. Its all about getting as strong as possible in a moderate rep range. All of the stuff people obssess over like volume, frequency, rest periods etc. are just a way to organize training. But the stimulus itself is progressive tension overload. It doesnt matter how many sets you do, if youre curling the same 20lb dumbbells year after year your arms arent getting any bigger.

[@Han-nk3io]

Getting strong is a result of effective training not vice versa.

[@CathyBojould]

@@Han-nk3ioSo lift the same weight forever then. You should continue to get stronger if you’re right. Spoiler - you’re not.

[@11valdano]

​@@Han-nk3io did he write it wasn't?

[@S.O.A_Zero]

​@@CathyBojouldYes you are, not forever but you are. Increasing the number of reps is a way to progressive overload and get stronger, not the most effective but sure as hell works. It stops working when you get over 25 reps, but you do growcand get stronger using the same weight.

[@Devil-ig7kl]

​@@S.O.A_Zero I've gotten stronger by using 8-12 rep range because anything lower than 3-5 reps doesn't feel good and my goal isn't powerlifting.... Imagine doing 1rm in a perfect form that's why the lower the rep range, the harder it gets to control.... 8-10 rm is probably a sweet spot... On top of that i do my all sets with the same weight...

[@welanduzfullo8496]

360p is actually goated. anything above in a educative context is just a waste of cache server space

[@andwhat.8785]

Agreed! Every big guy is capable of lifting heavy loads. Strength = size

[@brennand933]

Every lifter that’s spinning their wheels needs to see this video. It’s so simple, yet it’s so lost on most people

[@GuillaumeLeValiant]

Love your consistency these days! Keep it up Lyle

[@FoB39]

Just found your channel, love the information you put forth bro! Definitely binging the rest of your channel to catch up

[@jasonwilnis2195]

While it is true that it’s important to train hard and get stronger over time (like most the studies are doing anyways) it’d be foolhardy to not consider volume whatsoever. For example, if someone did 1 set of leg press 3x/ wk and try to get stronger overtime. I think there is low likelihood they will maximize their growth potential in 5 years. I think the volume per session / week to elicit an adequate growth response must be considered. And it may be a moving target. So I think a better statement would be “Progressive tension overload in combination with adequate volume (which is a moving target) are the most important training factors to maximize hypertrophy”

[@jacobbradsher8246]

These videos are very helpful.

[@MrRheo29]

Great as always Lyle!!!

[@DreadMaximus]

More Lyle!

[@teavana444]

I mostly do powerlifting, and I had to drop a lot of lifts over the years because they don't really do shit for S/B/D numbers, or they take forever to set up. I have progressively overloaded my db rows to the point where I am maxing out the dbs at the gym now for sets of 10-12, but it took basically only dumbbell rowing for back accessory work for like 8-9 years 3 days a week. Some exercises very clearly (visually and performance wise) actually work really, really, fucking well. Those are the ones I do now. Also, knowing what I know now, most of these people don't have the mobility to even demonstrate the full version of the exercise correctly. Any exercise that is about as hard to learn as a snatch or clean, no one does. Why is that? What if there are a bunch of really good exercises for building muscle, but they take too much time and practice for the average person to learn, so they are basically overlooked. Also, if the average person understood progressive overloading, there would be more questions floating around about what to do after maxing out a machine, because there would a lot of people doing the same lifts on the same machines for years and casually maxing them out. If you see a video of a "new" exercise come out or get popular, the people in the gym will basically only ever use the weight and range of motion they saw in the video unless its like S/B/D.

[@graysenm1320]

Big fan Lyle. I'm only half way through the video but wanted to add my thoughts before I forget them. I definitely agree with the premise that the average power lifter grows better than the average bodybuilder. However I think you'd agree with me that the best natural bodybuilders grow better than the best natural power lifters. It seems to me that the (I'm abbreviating from now on) APL has better knowledge on not only programming but also training intensity, so even if they only do small blocks of body building it's highly effective. But for the ABB they seem to train nowhere close to failure, do a lot of fluff and pump work, and have an overall lacking ability to program and progress within that program. Great stuff Lyle! Even though you don't read these comments you're a legend 💪

[@anthonydunkley7844]

Who cares?

[@graysenm1320]

​@anthonydunkley7844 haha you got me there!

[@dsb1984]

So, Lyle famously doesn't read comments. But I'll summarize what I understand his main points to be: the way to get big is to get strong in the moderate rep range. It isn't about fancy programming or anything that people sell you in e-books; it's about progressively overloading the basic movements close to failure over time and supporting that with diet and sleep. Powerlifters get big because they're always trying to get stronger. Bodybuilders, as of late, have been obsessed with adding volume rather than weight, and Lyle posits the results from the higher volume stuff is largely due to cell swelling.

[@grouse6]

How many work sets per muscle per week to get stronger?

[@dsb1984]

@grouse6 From what I understand of the current research, the lower limit is 1 set per week in a moderate rep range taken sufficiently close to failure will cause an adaptation. What I don't think we have a full understanding about is "is the shape of the curve an S (sigmoid) or a negative exponential curve?" But I think Lyles recommendation is in the 10-20 sets/wk range if memory serves.

[@TehAlex2310]

Lyle invented the science based fitness industry. He is the OG of natty gains

[@GG-wg1yh]

Literally love this dude. He's the Mike Mentzer of our age.

[@kirtonos]

mike mentzer was a roiding tard what are you on about lmao

[@nmnate]

I feel like there's a balance between just jamming more plates on the bar and adding reps. Both can be particularly slow. But keeping at it week after week (ok, let's be honest...months and months) with something that you're enjoying the progression on is what allows you to maintain that progression. Gotta have enough stimulus and time to build muscle, then demonstrate that performance increase. I find the lifts that click for me are ones that I enjoy in that manner. I like them enough that I can do them consistently when progression is slow (perhaps imperceptible to the outside observer), they don't mess with my joints in a way that I'm constantly regressing or nursing injuries, and they're not insanely fatiguing to the point where it's hard to get the rest of a workout done.

[@nmnate]

So, as an aside. I find the single greatest tool in my toolbox has been having a workout log. If you hold yourself to getting stronger on all of your lifts, that damn thing will make sure it happens. The little pocket size notebooks that I use can fit maybe 2 years of training into them. I put stars by my PRs...and being able to look back over months and years to see what your long term progression is...really lends perspective when things feel 'slow'.

[@REVIVALFitness]

These clowns always conflate strength with powerlifting. Strength does not have a specific rep range. “I only train for hypertrophy, not strength.” So how do you get bigger? “Progressive overload.” Right, which is… drum roll… getting stronger. They claim powerlifters have small muscles when anybody who’s spent time in powerlifting gyms or meets knows how big most are. Rare outliers who are far stronger than they look don’t break the rule. It’s mostly conjecture by guys who are pandering to uninformed gym bros.

[@ShawnGetty-eb1gj]

Yep. I think its maybe best to even think of hypertrophy as a side effect of strength training. Focus on getting strong in a moderate rep range and the size will come.

[@blaine6097]

Ah, Mr everyone wants to take steroids

[@Han-nk3io]

Strength training is different from powerlifting. Doing pull ups is strength training but it is not powerlifting.

[@BuJammy]

You have terrible proprioception. Your kettlebell tutorial looked like the macarena.

[@BuJammy]

Well said.@@Han-nk3io

[@SimonGarstin]

Another thing to consider is that the average powerlifter is probably eating more food whereas a bodybuilder is more likely to limit his calories to stay aesthetic looking, even during bulking. Food is the most anabolic substance and it will dramatically increase weight gain and strength gains, and therefore muscle gains. But you will get fatter. And that scares a lot of people.

[@sixmosher]

Great video welcome back 💪

[@lefonwastaken3393]

Love your work, Lyle!

[@genvalentine2259]

If somebody really cared, and by somebody I am specifically referring to a person (or a group of people) who can 'volunteer' to help Lyle with PR and marketing. Thinking Social Media people who can help him with the editing and repurpose content for the different platforms. Not to sell snake oil but to get the truth out. And if by doing so, reveals the con artists out there for what they truly are then that would just be a cherry on top.

[@devos3212]

Lyle I watch on the TV. 4k please!😊

[@Claudio-Martini]

lyle, this is so true drugs change the whole playing field, with all these Phd, Mike Israetel drug using gurus, It is good to have you back.

[@dieandgoaway]

Now the question is what is the best way to cause progressive overload?

[@BigV24]

Double progression

[@dieandgoaway]

@@BigV24 but what if I’m hitting failure on every set? Because using progressive overload I’ll eventually reach that trying to add more reps. Actually in my bench I’m hitting 9,7,6 all to failure having trouble adding more reps or weight.

[@dsb1984]

My man, microprogression is the way to go. They make magnetic weights (hypertrophy coach uses them a lot) where you can just add on half a pound at a time.

[@BigV24]

@@dieandgoaway in good faith I can't answer because I haven't plateaud as of yet in my two years of serious training. I have continually managed to add incrementally over time but it has gotten slower over the last year compared to the newbie gains of my first year of training.

[@bart_ql4191]

@@dieandgoaway i think that's your problem, benching all the time to failure.

[@MrRheo29]

That’s what Mike Otren says also about training.

[@itsviibes5854]

Do you think the way the natural big (good) bodybuilders do their reps matter tho? Someone can bench 315 with a big arch and wide grip (powerlifting) or small arch, more controlled eccentric. Either wat progressive overload is still king

[@LorenzKamo]

Mike Israel told me that this isn’t possibles

[@KenanTurkiye]

No 4K pls my laptop is older than the gym I go to. (12 years)

[@blaine6097]

Thank you

[@Randomdude12457]

Milo wolfe/lengthened partials/stretch mediated hypertrophy video would be excellent is it just hype or is it really legit? These guys are now advocating against bread and butter moves for example barbell curls or db lateral raises because there’s little tension In the first part of the movement Are they right?

[@ShawnGetty-eb1gj]

Milo is a snake oil salesman. Lyle is making a video on him soon and will expose him.

[@TypicallyUniqueOfficial]

Depends on the muscle. If lengthened partials were the true “best” way to train for every muscle group, then that would reflect in every study. There are studies that show the glutes growing more OR equally to a squat (typically better). Therefore glutes have shown better hypertrophy with partials in the end range (aka non lengthened). If a muscle has leverage in the lengthened portion of an exercise, it will grow more. It’s about finding the resistance curve of each exercise and finding which muscles are working where. The incline db curl (lengthened movement) will do worse for biceps than a preacher curl because the biceps have leverage in the bottom portion of the preacher and they don’t in an incline DB curl. If you’re doing a fly, then lengthened partials make much sense, but if you’re doing a pull-up…the lengthened partials at the very bottom of the pullup will not because the lats don’t have the leverage in that portion of the lift.

[@Smithster80]

Couldn’t agree more Lyle. Keep exposing the bullshit brigade. You hit the nail on the head with logic and understanding the fundamental principles of resistance training that people try and cover up with ‘lengthened partials’ horse shit

[@alexmc7798]

Algorithm love

[@11valdano]

What's your take on HST (Hypertrophy Specific Training) ?

[@KenanTurkiye]

13:39 no wonder I'm stronger than every drugged guy in the gym on all lifts, except the gym owner who drugs and trains them like fluffs

[@ew-zd1th]

5:35 is there a difference between overload with more Reps vs weight?

[@ernoeskeli1139]

Basically no, your performance has improved (more reps or more weight) because positive adaptations contributing to strength have taken place.

[@ernoeskeli1139]

And with those new adaptations you can choose to do more reps or more weight. The adaptation is still the same and it allows you to pick either of those options.

[@Leansipper_dg]

on a small scale there’s no difference but you should prioritize weight when possible. it is more guaranteed to be tension progress whereas rep progress can be achieved through other factors than muscle growth (work capacity/cardio/technique/groove etc)

[@ernoeskeli1139]

@@Leansipper_dg yeah, progressing with weight is always the goal

[@SB-mr2nk]

Another one

[@ew-zd1th]

Ok but deadlift gives you an back that Bodybuilders often domt have bevause of the erectors

[@w1cked001]

which competitive bodybuilder doesn't have a thick set of erectors? Bodybuilders also never train legs according to the internet, right?

[@KIKKAAA685]

u crazy and small add your picture we will se who is bigger)

[@w1cked001]

@FineWine205 you can easily reverse the roles here. There are plenty of ‘powerlifters’ whose extent of powerlifting is having a huge bag of training gear and can’t squat over 225 without wraps. For fair comparison you need to compare same levels for each population, and it’s much easier to do when there’s some objective idea such as competing in a federation for either pursuit etc

[@KIKKAAA685]

@FineWine205 you will be mine living weight for biceps you so small)

[@ComradeX]

IMHO >99% of people would be better off by training "like powerlifters" if they want to get close to their genetic muscular potential. The don't have to do the "big 3 powerlifts", but focusing on achieving progressive overload and training mostly big, compound exercises of basic human movement patterns, will bring more results than anything else besides PEDs.

[@ew-zd1th]

I added 40 percent for Reps on my seatee calfes raise with a barbell in my Rack but my calfes arent growing. I Wonder why i was able and still able to Progress without growth

[@fluffyscruffy]

Whats your technique like? Do you swing the weight or do you control the eccentric, pause at the bottom of the stretch and remove any tendon momentum? Also seated (knee bent) works the soleus, which is slow-twitch dominant, i.e. less likely to grow. With straight knees itll work the gastroc

[@ew-zd1th]

@@fluffyscruffy Pause at the Stretch every Set to failure. The Thing i dont get so much Stronger at the Standing calfes raise.

[@adam-lt8iy]

​@@ew-zd1th because hes wrong and getting stronger isn't the best way to add size 😊 you're seeing it yourself. Some of the biggest naturals, GVS and natural hypertrophy are both "weak" for their size but still very developed.

[@ew-zd1th]

@@adam-lt8iy yeah But this exactly what lyle says! From where you started you have to get Stronger and this Happened to gvs. Last Bulk He increased His triceps Extensions pushdown a lot

[@EvanZamir]

Is there any research supporting this hypothesis?

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

Which hypothesis are you even talking about?

[@adam-lt8iy]

​@@user-nm3ug3zq1ythat strength = size. Did you not watch the video?

[@EvanZamir]

@@user-nm3ug3zq1y literally just had to read the title of the video my bot friend

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

@@EvanZamir, oh wow, you managed to read a whole title! That's usually how you figure out what a youtube video is all about! Congrats on your insight and your time-saving skills!

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

@@adam-lt8iy, that's not what the video says. Omg, you guys.

[@SamC_182]

They don't

[@JustWantedToGrill]

Okay, but if it's all about progressive tension overload, what's the deal with competitive bowlers who don't use progressively heavier balls but do insane amounts of volume by bowling 4-6 days per week and have one really huge arm and one normal size arm?

[@FrogmortonHotchkiss]

Huh, this is a real thing??

[@adam-lt8iy]

They don't have huge arms at all bro what are you even talking about lol. Obviously the arm they throw with is experiencing some tension the other arm is not so it's going to be slightly bigger. But it's not like they're walking around with 16 inch forearms

[@ShawnGetty-eb1gj]

What ? All professional bowlers ive seen are skinny fat. Its a sport almost entirely based on skill.

[@BuJammy]

It doesn't continue to grow, like tennis players

[@JustWantedToGrill]

@@adam-lt8iy Not all of them, but plenty do have wildly disproportionate bowling arms. Same with many tennis players as BuJammy notes. I have a relative who bowls all the time, and his bowling arm is comically large compared to his non-bowling arm. You'll see the same thing if you look up pics of pro guys like Ryan Ciminelli or Rhino Page. Massive arms from nothing but volume.

[@cysecgnz]

“Grow better than bodybuilders”? Ok.

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

First watch the video maybe?

[@KIKKAAA685]

no they dont are you crazy>? show me powerlifter that look like me) good powerlifter is 40% bodyfat than he can lift 2000 lbs total

[@KIKKAAA685]

@FineWine205 YOU SMALL kid l will curl you as a biceps weight hehe

[@pyloredaking7133]

Bro skipped comprehension day. Learn to listen to what some one says

[@user-nm3ug3zq1y]

You really should watch a video first, figure out what his *actual* point is.

[@jamesmurphy5393]

What do you bench press and squat?

[@KIKKAAA685]

@@jamesmurphy5393 220 kg bench 320 kg squat

[@KaoWins]

Some of the biggest bodybuilders of all time were also the strongest, both natural and enhanced. Steve Reeves was reported to have benched 405lbs, and we've all seen Ronnie Coleman benching 500lbs for reps. No need to reinvent the wheel with bullshit volume studies