QI revelation about "The History of England"

From the excellent and informative quiz QI

[@ShiitakeWarrior]

1:40 - Gotta love it when the QI Elves throw in a double bluff like that.

[@andrew7taylor]

Quite right!

[@mickavoidant4780]

I thought they would do a hasty klaxon for Abyssinia.

[@stevevasta]

@@mickavoidant4780 🤣🤣🤣

[@BigAlaMcC]

I love Jupitus' attitude towards Fry and his reactions.

[@Tjalve70]

Well, what can I say.... About 15 years ago, a Scotsman introduced himself to us as being English. When we expressed surprise, saying that from his accent we assumed he was Scottish, he became embarrassed, and said that yes, he was Scottish. He just wasn't used to anyone knowing what Scotland was.

[@Outspoken.Humanist]

I'm not sure it was ever 'normal'. Perhaps in England, but I struggle to accept that an average Scot or Welshman would have ever called their home England. Still the best show on TV.

[@Linz0440]

The North British Station Hotel in Edinburgh wasn't called the North English Station Hotel when it opened in 1902. It's a Scot Nat bad story from yesteryear - making out we were all England until the Natz came along!

[@Outspoken.Humanist]

@@Linz0440 That makes more sense. Thank you.

[@DS-dh7vt]

I don't think that he implied that a scot or Welshman would consider their own land 'England' but more the rest of the world and the English would use the word England to refer to the entire British empire, including Scotland and Wales.

[@Outspoken.Humanist]

@@DS-dh7vt You are right, of course. The 'establishment' and the higher echelons of English people would have used the term but even then I feel there was an unconscious superiority implied. I suspect that even in those days, the average Scot or Welshman may have been uncomfortable with the idea, even if they rarely spoke out. And I speak as an Englishman

[@danielburger1775]

The "average Scot or Welshman" had no idea that they weren't English until very recently.

[@MegaBanne]

What a double sneaky bastard at 1:39. I bet everyone was like "It know it is from the Anglo-Saxons, but I do not dare saying it because this is probably some form of trick question again".

It has nothing to do with Saxons.

[@nickmonks9563]

"Yes...quite right!" Rolling on the floor...

[@OzanUtku]

It’s ‘correct’

[@mush1955]

The vexillological organisation for the United Kingdom, stated that the term Union Flag is a relatively recent idea It also noted that From early in its life the Admiralty itself frequently referred to the flag as the Union Jack,whatever its use,and in 1902 an Admiralty Circular announced that Their Lordships had decided that either name could be used officially. Such use was given Parliamentary approval in 1908 when it was stated that the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag

[@wolfganghendery8298]

New Zealanders and Australians called themselves 'English' and were full British citizens until the 1960s

[@downunderrob]

Mate, we never called ourselves "English". British yes, but English? No. Not unless your ancestors were.

[@downunderrob]

@@wolfganghendery8298 And I remember that the Greatest Prime Minister this Country ever had, Sir Robert Menzies. Described himself as "British to his boot heels." Whether English, Welsh, Scots or Northern Irish, Australians tendered to refer to themselves as British.

[@downunderrob]

@René Artois Oh...and were you implying he had any regard for the Nazi's? Menzies didn't have his tongue up the Fuhrers ass like a certain ex-King I could mention. Or Joe Kennedy. Or even Charles Lindbergh!

[@BuggyrcobraAya]

New Zealanders would have been more likely to call themselves English, while Australians often came from an Irish background

[@zapkvr]

There was no such thing as an Australian citizen until 1949. We used to be British subjects

[@FacnyCatFighter]

@naryanr I agree. The term "British Isles" only exists in a legal capacity as a description of the United Kingdom and it's dependencies. Even as a geographical description, it's a term which is not used in any official sense outside of the UK. Therefore, Ireland has the right to use whatever term it desires. Even in Britain, the term didn't come into popular use until the 17th Century.

[@user-yp3oj5se1i]

It's cringy to see supposedly educated people act like Ireland isn't much older than the fake 'britain' thing. Yes fake literally, roman conquering stories were made up because we have DNA now that roman church cult didn't know would be discovered. only 2% roman brit dna actually exists in the incorrectly renamed 'britain' island. Irish weren't beaten by roman brits/brits/anglos etc and Ireland is not small enough to be an isle. The 'brit isles' term used including Ireland is just the same jibberish propaganda as 'home nations' including Ireland and the 6 counties in north east Ireland being referred to as 'Northern Ireland' . That will cause people to think all of northern Ireland is within the brit colony and all mildly educated people know that. roman and anglo invasion stories are made up. Both Irish islands are non british still with majority Irish dna. The non Irish dna is from Irish related europeans as Irish migrated and started those cultures.

[@Xiphias52]

Sadly for both of us, the issue is not quite as clear-cut as you suggest. This is because of the continuing debate as to nationality. I'm from Northern Ireland: I hold a British passport (I also hold an Irish one, but that's another issue). My great-grandfather was a constable in the Royal Irish Constabulary before partition and independence, and he too was British by nationality, according to his paperwork. So he was part of the NATION of Britain - just not physically on the island of GB.

[@mush1955]

No law has been passed making the Union Flag the national flag of the United Kingdom: it has become one through usage. Its first recorded recognition as a national flag came in 1908, when it was stated in Parliament that "the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag". A more categorical statement was made by the Home Secretary in 1933, when he stated that "the Union Jack is the National Flag". But it is still officially a flag of the monarch, rather than the country

[@AMPATL]

Fabulous show! Even the arguing in these forums is entertaining and informative.

[@emperorsdragon]

After the third Ice age Britain was settled by 1) Iberians 2) Gaels (celts) 600 bc 3) Brythons (celts) 400bc 4) Belgic (Franco/German celts) 150 bc 5) Romans 55 bc 6) Angles/Saxons/Jutes 400 ad 7) Danes & Vikings 800 ad 8) Normans 1066

[@janetmackinnon3411]

Which of these groups include the Picts?

[@robsargent4]

@animesis I've met many people who say the UK most of the time, but sometimes (I think it's called a slip of the tongue) they might talk about the English Parliament (which hasn't existed since 1707), the English Army (same) & the way England fought Germany in the 2nd WW etc. This includes some British people I've met, but mostly foreigners (e.g. the Japanese have one word for British & English - they don't differentiate between the 2 concepts at all). That said, I've never met a Japanese person

[@threepot5874]

And Americans still refer to the UK as England!

[@tracymaxwell11]

Does my head in, that. But at least we now know why.

[@polarisreseau]

a breed is R with 2 branches R1 (Slavonic R1a, Atlantic R1b). Modal Atlantic R1b in 2 mutations P 312 Basque and Saxon P-312. BASQUES R1B1B2A1B* are Basque modern, Bretons of France (b2), asturiens , gascons, welsh, Catalan (B3), Celtic Atlantic, navarre-Castile and centers Portugal, English (B4), Irish, Scottish (b5 and 6). It marks a mutation every 500 years, 6 time 500 = 3000/3500 years the age of basques.

[@Huesos138]

"Fry's researchers have done him a disservice here - Scottish Nationalism existed well before the 30s." I wouldn't say that. Although it is true that Scottish nationalism existed before the 1930's, it experienced a significant resurgence during that particular period.

[@DeFactoLeader]

@TheBadcrumble That's rather odd. I've always found Kiwi and Aussie accents pretty easy to distinguish from one another. I've noticed New Zealanders are more soft spoken than Australians.

[@saitada]

Eng also means narrow in German but the common etymology is correct. England was called "Englaland" in Old english, "Engla" being the genitive plural of "Angle"

[@andrewclayton4181]

The 17th century wars are called the Engish civil war, but they involved the other home nations too. Recently alternative names have been applied, but the older term is tenacious. The careless abandon with which these terms are used irritates me. They tend to reinforce England's domination of the island group.

[@phoenixfriend]

It used to be that people meant Britain when they said England, now they mean England when they say Britain.

[@ionlyfearphobophobia]

@naryanr Well if we're talking about Northern Ireland, then that is British in all sense of the word. 1. Northern Ireland is geographically part of the "British Isles" (a group of islands in north west Europe). 2. Northern Ireland is politically part of the UK (union of countries in the British isles).

[@TobScy]

@TheBadcrumble That's not because people don't understand they're different places, though, simply because the accents can be difficult to distinguish if you're unfamiliar with them.

[@tbass94]

So Sean Lock saying England is not incorrect because England is part of Britain, The History of England just happens to also be about Wales and Scotland.

[@anonb4632]

Tom Bass Not necessarily. England has history which is not to do with Scotland and vice versa.

[@tbass94]

I think you've missed my point

[@beithairltd2381]

Tom Bass, the key point is in the question. Stephen asks what is it ALL about? He could have used the words "exclusively" or "solely". The use of either of those two words might have telegraphed the trap, however. So, when Sean replies "England", he is NOT correct because the "History of England" although being about England, in part, is not ALL about England.

[@jellyboy123]

thanks for the info , its nice to know about history.=]

[@varangian1081]

I am glad to see you recognise the distinction between Celt and Briton, Celt being a cultural and not a racial term. The English 'links' to the Danes and Germans can be reduced down to pockets in Norfolk and Yorkshire. Again, and I see it so many times in these discussions and in other forums, people make the mistake of equating culture with race. I believe that these factors have been manipulated in the past to create the divisions we see in the home nations today.

[@rippleoffreewill]

@jimmcconville There's actually a South Holland and North Holland, which are different provinces.

[@Bumblybee256]

@grobo11 lol the Welsh, Irish and Scottish being able to speak english isn't a weakness on OUR part.

[@askl23]

@0BornofDesire0 Don't worry, they get the Geordie Shore, which makes Jersey Shore look like some forgotten Marlowe play. It all comes around...

[@HerbiieIsBest]

AJP Taylor... great historian...

[@christinae30]

Do the circles and ellipses take offence when not included in "the Angles"?

[@grahamlive]

@toxicshot I know but you often hear people (often Americans) say England, when they mean the UK. I don't mind being called British. Just not English. Not that I have anything against England . It's just that I'm not from there. :)

[@Tmanaz480]

Surprised he didn't trot out the word "synechdochr" here.

[@robsargent4]

@Hashishin13 no, the English did not conquer Scotland. The arrangement we have today has been a long time-in-the-making. First of all, England & Scotland were 2 independent Kingdoms (although England had earlier annexed Wales & made it part of England & the English had also conquered Ireland, but preserved it as a separate Kingdom ruled by the English King). There was more than 1 marriage between the English & Scottish Royal dynasties,which meant that when Elizabeth I of England died without a

[@user-yp3oj5se1i]

" the English had also conquered Ireland,"?? partial occupation in small areas that got rebelled against by the Irish is not "conquered". The english origin stories are fake like the roman invasion stories. Only 2% roman brit dna exists where it should be majority roman brit dna.

[@JimmySteller]

If Sean's third choice had appeared over the claxxons, I think he would have crapped himself out of shock.

[@varangian1081]

The problem is that there was no infrastructure or industry to exploit these natural resourses in Wales.These resources were only exploited because OTHER people wanted them.The Welsh didn't have the capacity or need for them. Its called Supply and Demand. And no the Welsh weren't a poor subjugated nation under the empire they were part of it and enjoyed the rich bounty just like every one else in Britain.

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

Ah, the days before we were regularly contradicted by geography pedants.

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

@64Fabby pedantry is getting worse.

[@kravann]

RIP Sean Lock

[@EireVoin]

in northern ireland the can be british citizens or irish citizens, they can even have an irish passport

[@peterb2272]

Oh god. It took me years to understand the difference. Now I'm all confused again.

[@lucy2005rules]

I dont mind being called british or english, what does annoy me tho is when other countrys only think england is london, they refer to london as being england

[@levanteIRL67592]

Apologies if I've made a mistake, but my dad has a British passport, and it says "United Kingdom of GB and NI", so even though "British" is in common usage, I don't think it's technically 100% accurate.

[@Samsmilify]

I'm Australian have no idea what the difference between them all is. it would be really good if someone could explain thanks

[@ionlyfearphobophobia]

@naryanr 1. Did i say the British Isles was a country? It's a geographical location, just like Scandinavia is. 2. Because it is, geographically. It's the same as India with Pakistan.

[@Bumblybee256]

1. I suspect it's more than that. Possibly not entirely fluent but most Irish in the republic know quite a bit. It's used along with english all over the place. 2. that's makes england less of a joke?

[@XrGrimreap3rX]

As a English, Welsh, Scottish, Manx, Northern Irishman I find this insulting

[@Jasondfilms]

I'm offended that your offended and that's offensive

[@robsargent4]

@animesis meaning. I don't actually care all that much about nationality myself, but let's face it, ignorance can be annoying. When people show that they don't actually care about what really should be common knowledge it doesn't exactly endear me to them. I know that no one knows everything & you shouldn't expect too high standards of everyone, but sometimes the common standard's just a bit depressingly low.

[@tberwick1]

@kirriereoch Fair enough. My mistake for using the wrong terminology.

[@robsargent4]

@Hashishin13 the Dutch-Spanish relationship is because each of these relationships shares certain characteristics. Each pair of nations shares a broadly similar culture, in each example there is a dominant nation & a small neighbour & in each example there is an inferiority complex on the part of the small neighbour, as well as arguably a superiority complex on the part of the dominant nation. Also, although the present constitutional statuses aren't comparable, the histories are. Bollocks, I

[@3tangle3]

welsh speaking communities in western england until 1900s, mail me if interested to know more. Maybe some native speakers left around Oswestry but we need researchers :(

[@johnnye87]

It did mean English-speaking, the name of the language is older than the name of the country. It does derive from the Angles though.

[@ionlyfearphobophobia]

@naryanr Ok, if your saying it was once called the "British isles", but no more, when? When did they change it?

[@texasoilfields]

thank you very sweetly

[@TheManWithManyNames]

Watching this in 2021

[@cbrusharmy]

understood

[@irishgodfatherchris]

@PonderBomb it actually stands for Quite Interesting.

[@robsargent4]

@Hashishin13 Also, the Portuguese had their very Union of the Crowns with Spain for a time (like Scotland, Ireland & England from 1603 to 1707, apart from during the Interregnum). And don't forget, Nazi Germany occupied the Netherlands like it occupied much of mainland Germany. It was you Canucks who liberated them for pity's sake. Mind you, that's not really the point. The reason I made the comparison between the Scottish-English relationship & the Portuguese-Spanish relationship, as well as

[@jonno2019]

what it says on your passport perhaps? or if it is about what nationality you "feel" you are is an entirely different matter.

[@kirriereoch]

@MrSelidor7 Be wary with those dates. It was 1603 when King James VI became King James I of Great Britain. I think you´re mixing it up with the union of the parliaments (i.e. Scotland and England) in 1707.Quite different events and both key phases,in importantly different ways,regarding the future (some would term it fate)of Scotland, England, Wales, Ireland (the whole of Ireland) and indeed the "colonies" in America and the embryonic British Empire.But I know what you mean.

[@mush1955]

Very true !

[@MyNameIsBucket]

@wahtization What part of America?

[@robsargent4]

@animesis it's all to easy for the majority to become ignorant of the minority. Sometime the majority even completely forget, or ignore, the minority. And I mean this in a much broader sense than dominant nationality versus fringe nationality.

[@JamesAHirons_]

its the Union Flag, its only called the Union Jack at sea :P

[@JamesAHirons_]

@andrewwmunro aint

[@ionlyfearphobophobia]

@Samsmilify Type in on youtube "The Difference between the United Kingdom, Great Britain and England Explained", first video at the top. I hope this helps.

[@Hellooo06]

Ha-ha, I'll be sure to use that next time my situation arises. Thanks! :)

[@Austenasia]

Technically, but the legal term was changed from "subjects" to "citizens" back in the 1980s.

[@ionlyfearphobophobia]

@naryanr But they weren't called it by the British, because they were named before the "Kingdom of Great Britain" ever even existed, get it?

[@thedirtyfecker]

As an informed Irish man of his own history i have no reason to believe that just like in Ireland with the Penal Laws, the famine, Cromwells invasion and the Ulster Plantations that the English would take any different an attitude with wiping out Welsh culture than thaey attempeted with us. History books are written by those who publish them... We have our own memmory of the facts. In Wales that would be harder to record since England has controlled all circulation since 400AD or something...

[@texasoilfields]

anyone know what episode/series this comes from? i'd like to watch the whole thing

[@PriscillaMoore]

Episode 10, E series

[@robsargent4]

@animesis hmmm, Northern Irish folk. Well some of them would say they're just Irish & not British at all, some of them say they're British & not Irish at all, some of them say they're both at the same time & a few of them say they're something else first & foremost - Northern Irish. The interpretation of identity of people from Northern Ireland's really very confusing for anyone who doesn't know many Northern Irish people or who doesn't know much about the history. So some of them don't mind

[@3tangle3]

Most of the people of european ancestry on this isle of great britain are descended from the first settler stock - the proto celts......also old welsh was spoken in england and southern scotland before english LOL now that is a revelation as UK cirriculum covers up the truth ;)

[@Hellooo06]

I'm Welsh but I tell Americans I'm British. They then go on to use English stereotypes like 'bad teeth' to which I reply: "I'm a sheepshagger, you fatty."

[@DonMeaker]

Hurrah for the Woad Warriors!

[@dominacerz]

sean locke......and mr sean locke

[@EquusFerrarius]

It is not so much a matter of knowing English history but knowing German history. Germany only came into existence in 1871, so "Germans" could not possibly have conquered England prior to this date.

[@Golkarian]

Did he think it was going to buzz when he said 'Angles'?

[@jellyboy123]

Always thought Cornwall had a election to be part of England, because the Germanic tribe pushed back the Celts to Wales, Ireland, Scotland, plus Cornwall but people from Cornwall wanted to be part of England.

[@user-yp3oj5se1i]

You really believe Irish clans could be beaten? and by all the groups around the Irish???? You learn that Irish were used for the hardest tasks during ww2 and the best boxers, football players, stand ups, actors etc in england are all not anglo or roman but Irish. Nobody was called 'celtic'. That's made up to hide the fact that Irish advanced and populated europe on their own, not mixed with europeans and with no religious cult in control. Most of the anti Irish 'celt' propaganda was constructed in the early 1700's by edward lhyud.

[@iFkNxLegend]

Classic English really

[@ionlyfearphobophobia]

@naryanr So what word has replaced it then?

[@blackbird5634]

I keep hearing him gasp for air mid-sentence! It is too funny he never got his nose fixed! Especially if he knew he'd be public speaking for a living. One quick operation on the surgeon's table and that broken beak would be drawing quiet air up into his sinuses and he wouldn't have to Hoover up the room every time he paused.🤣

[@ComradeJon]

@askl23 Hush, we do not mention...THAT show, lol.

[@Ashitaka255]

@irishgodfatherchris I'd always assumed it was an anagram for the "IQ" test.

[@kittyprydex]

Longest conversation about "What Britain is and what it owns" EVER.

[@ScoopexUs]

The English are about the Angles. ;) Hat's off for that punchline :D

[@ionlyfearphobophobia]

@naryanr I'm not accepting that i'm wrong, because it's not fact, it's a matter of opinion.

[@Bumblybee256]

@grobo11 I didn't assert that THAT was slang, I was referring to Ulster Scots. Why on earth are you speaking in Cornish to ME?

[@robsargent4]

@animesis the majority/minority argument is relevant, because the English form the majority of people in the UK & that's why the UK was (& still, by some) England. The UK was never going to be known as Scotland, Wales, Ireland (or since the partition, Northern Ireland), was it?

[@varangian1081]

I don't believe you can trace your family that far back. It would be like me saying I'm a direct decendant of Henry V, pure fiction.

[@FuriousBOIAngel]

mate get it right 45%

[@ThomHC]

The Dutch still say England for all Britain.

[@ionlyfearphobophobia]

@naryanr So the word "British Isles" means nothing then?

[@Bumblybee256]

@grobo11 No, I'm Irish and yes, I can. You can't say anything for the Northern Irish. Irish is spoken in the North too, just not as much.

[@PianoKwanMan]

"the angles" and the way stepeh says "quite correct" like it was so easy. that has made me laugh ever since this episode came out. which series and episode is this?

[@Muckydoggy1]

what happens if you hold neither passport?

[@mikespike007]

he said abysinia

[@robsargent4]

@animesis Well actually calling it England technically does instantly mean Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland are absent, because none of them are part of England, as we all know. I don't hate all people who call the UK or the island of Britain "England", but we all know that it's incorrect & let's be honest it is offensive to call a Portuguese person Spanish or a Dutch person German (why, because it's incorrect.) Inconsistencies are not harmless in themselves, despite the fact they may be well-

[@Maerahn]

Did Sean Lock clone himself for this episode???

[@heyjudeyeah]

The correct term, i believe, is homosexual *puts monocle on and sips her sherry*

[@SaulMeyersz]

@cmwissy the world does