Caller Uses the Kind of CIRCULAR Reasoning that Gives You Vertigo | Paulogia & Erika GG

[@knickknack4338]

I must say, "We can follow IKEA directions, therefore God" is a new one

[@hmonster1XL]

IKEA needs to print the next Bible😂

[@Eldritch-1]

IKEA instructions mostly make sense, unlike the 2000 year old fanfiction/toilet paper

[@grandvianna8551]

This is my new go to now 😂😂😂

[@georgiabundick]

literally i thought the quote in their thumbnail was gonna relate a little more abstractly than this it literally was about building a chair the whole way through

[@LurkingAstronaut]

This reminds me of a time when I was being polite and nice to someone, and they said, "How Christian of you." I said, "I'm not Christian." They then started to ask me if I was any of the Abrahamic faiths, listing them one after the other. And I answered no to each. They were so confused. "But you are the nicest person I've ever met. How can you not be?" They responded. "You don't have to be religious to be a good person." Very strange experience.

[@anthonymitchell9793]

I had one like that. The deacon of the church my wife attends had a tornado destroy one of his barns. He asked for help cleaning up. When he works have a pig roast at his farm 200 parishioners would show up but only 23 people, including me, showed up to help clean up the barn. It didn't bother him thst so few people showed up but he told my wife he was completely confused I showed up to help because charity is a Christian trait. I found out later he said this so next time I saw him I pointed out only 10% of Christians he knew showed up to help but 100% of the atheists did so this was evidence charity is actually am atheist trait.

[@AXKfUN9m]

Give the article "The Global God Divide People’s thoughts on whether belief in God is necessary to be moral vary by economic development, education and age" in Pew Research Center a read. The map there makes me lose faith in humanity.

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

Religion is mental poison. That's all.

[@victoriousf.i.g.3311]

​@@anthonymitchell9793 Dude, same. We have a Nazarene church that does free lunches and clothing for people in need and I help them out all the time. The facility they bought to do this out of used to be a really dangerous bar and they like to joke that "We're the only holiness church that owns a bar". Mostly good folk. I don't think I've ever told them I'm not one of them but it's just never come up.

[@Off2theLandofOZ]

I've had similar experiences. I hope it's changed some people mind about atheists and what type of people we are

[@sapphichazard]

Using an instruction booklet to "prove itself" by building a chair is not an instruction booklet proving itself. It is an instruction booklet relying on *physical reality* to be proven. Something the Bible is not able to do.

[@sumo1203]

Yeah he tried to weasel around ideas the whole clip. Typical disingenuous BS

[@grantm6514]

And the instruction booklet analogy was stupid, unless it's an instruction booklet that tells you how to assemble a chair and then goes on to claim (without evidence) that sitting on the chair will give you superpowers.

[@Bunny99s]

Right, The instruction manual could claim anything like using fairy dust to glue part A to part B. However this can not be physicallly demonstrated or done. So the manual does not prove itself. Being able to actually build the thing it describes is the evidence that the instructions actually work. Though as Erika said, we can even tell if the instructions make sense since we know about the individual steps through experience in physical reality. So we can already determine that the steps explained in the manual do work since we have seen those steps being done before in physical reality. However if such a manual would claim a step you have never seen being carried out, you could not tell if that would actually work. If I write a manual to build a chair and the first step is to lay out the material in a certain pattern and the second steop is to pray to god to do the final assembly, I can assure you, the chair will never be completed by following this manual :)

[@TiKallisti]

A more suitable comparison would be the instruction boon on how to build a Flux-compensator for time travels.

[@bierbasstard]

And he, obviously, has never experienced an instruction manual with revisions and addendums like when I bought an elliptical that was shipped with an older version and I had to call them, verify that the instructions that I had were incorrect, and they emailed me the updated version 😅

[@ericmishima]

The instructions claim you can assemble a chair from the instructions. The completed chair is the evidence the claim is true.

[@bobmudge4836]

The chair is external corroboration of the instructions. Provide external corroboration of the “instructions” in the Bible.

[@tonyfendex2558]

Amazing observation!!!!

[@0815UserII]

And even looking at an online version or calling the manufacturer (or someone else) has to include that we can go to them and look at the chair they built with their version, which is still a step more than someone having the same instructions/bible translation(s) in their bookshelf as I have. Simply comparing the instructions/bible proves nothing other than that the contents of both instances of the instructions/bible are the same, not that the contents actually reflect reality.

[@Pitts_not_Pitty]

The Bible gives dimensions of the ark that we've since found out would not have been sea worthy.

[@Eldritch-1]

I'm still waiting for someone to grab some clay and breath on it to create a human....

[@bodan1196]

The word "external" is carrying heavy implactions, as the external here is after death. There can not be any corroboration of these instructions while still having a human mind with which to assess them.

[@LavenderGooms-tz1kw]

The last of the instructions for the chair manual isn’t “keep doing this and when you die then you’ll see that it worked and you made a chair.”

[@Colognekickboxer]

Religious dogma has caused unspeakable horror again and again and again in human history. When will it be enough?

[@catalhuyuk7]

I was a fence sitter about religion until I found out what the church did to thousands of indigenous children and ultimately their families when the children were kidnapped and placed in residential schools, all in the name of Jesus. That opened up a whole new perspective.

[@fuzzspanden]

@@catalhuyuk7 that's not religion, that's christianity. don't blame everyone else for that.

[@catalhuyuk7]

@@fuzzspanden You’re right. That was Christianity- hence in the name of Jesus. I view all religions the same though.

[@arlisskowski]

@@Colognekickboxer what hasn't caused unspeakable horror in human history?

[@Moltenstardeath]

@@arlisskowskiSecular Humanism

[@sparki9085]

The chair isn't a part of the instruction booklet! How does he not see it!?!

[@paullanoue5228]

The religious mind works in mysterious ways.

[@frankanderson5012]

Because he had already decided what the conclusion was and was so stuck in a loop of denial.

[@RecMike]

The religious are terrible at analogies

[@wizardsuth]

What if you wrote the instruction manual on the pieces that make up the chair?

[@mhoppy6639]

I love the deadpan “non-napkin criteria” 😂😂 Excellent stuff Paul 🎉

[@madeline6951]

This guy literally waited for his turn to speak. He disregarded the fact that the hosts can see from a mile away where his argument will lead, and still went there.

[@victoriousf.i.g.3311]

Wait til he sees someone assemble IKEA furniture WITHOUT the instructions. Now THERE is proof of a miracle 🤣

[@Eldritch-1]

I've done that.... but to be, fair I've owned and assembled a lot of Ikea furniture

[@victoriousf.i.g.3311]

@@Eldritch-1 That's more evidence for the existence of a god than I've heard so far. You're at least a demigod, for sure!

[@Codswallop58]

He keeps saying, "I understand that, but...." That "but" is the clearest indication that he does not understand.

[@memecity9849]

God is real How do you know that? Because the bible says so How do you know the Bible is true? Because its the word of God And how do you know that? Because the Bible says so

[@Colognekickboxer]

Same with islam.

[@jphenry3404]

​@@Colognekickboxer Same with all religions based on scripture, so what's your point

[@Gerolinger]

Yeah not circular at all…

[@AXKfUN9m]

@@Gerolinger No, it isn't circular, it's a f'king rally circuit.

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

Tim Minchin nailed it with 'Good Book'...

[@jillum89]

I have actually once bought furniture where they did a misprint: they had dragged a _wrong_ screw image onto a step. It didn’t fit. I got the correct real information from tre real world … by testing which screws _actually_ fit. And then I contacted the company, informing them, and they corrected the mistake, that I was able to figure out by investigation in the real world outside of the wrong manual.

[@rustanddust5524]

You’re obviously not a true Chairstian. We pray that the bad screw still works, we understand that this wicked world has corrupted the screw and we patiently wait our entire lives for IKEA Christ to restore the screw, we will get to use that chair forever in heaven.

[@wizardsuth]

The manual's author apparently did not test the manual by building the furniture, and just relied on faith that it was true.

[@molkien9928]

This call over and over again: “I understand that” _He in fact didn’t understand that_

[@Eldritch-1]

Why do I hear that in Ron Howards voice...lol

[@jens2old2care]

One big difference is that we can all accept and prove that chairs exist and that instruction booklets can tell you how to build one. To compare it to the Bible, i would think the instructions would simply say, "believe the chair can be built. Pray for it. If it doesn't end up as a chair, it's because it's not in gods plan"

[@Moltenstardeath]

Or, best case scenario, even if a chair making booklet accurately instructs you into making a chair, it doesn’t add any credibility to any other unfounded claims it makes about afterlifes, moral permissiveness of slavery, who you are or are not allowed to sleep with, the order of events of the formation of the earth that contradict with science, etc.

[@alexhetherington8028]

Well said my friend

[@utes5532]

More like "Believe the chair can be built. Pray for it. Put your trust in the chair, and once you die, you will have built the most comfortable chair imaginable"

[@johnquiett1085]

Kind of. Yeah.

[@larrymoens20]

As an atheist, and according to the bible, my life is a continuous sin, 24/7.😅

[@sammysamlovescats]

I hope they're at least fun sins!

[@RalphJBater]

"Everything I've ever done, everything I'll ever do, every place I 've ever been, everywhere I'm going to... it's a sin".... (Pet Shop Boys)

[@ziploc2000]

Matthew appears to argue that the instruction booklet alone is proof of a chair and thus proof that the booklet is correct, when we require the assembled chair to prove that the instruction booklet is correct (and they often get things wrong in those booklets). Apologist analogies never work the way they think they do.

[@terrencelockett4072]

It's way too common for them to make horrible analogies.

[@jamierichardson7683]

Just like reality

[@heiyuall]

Recipes aren’t food.

[@1020kerry]

Good point

[@Mostlyharmless1985]

Not with that attitude. *monches on the art of French cooking.*

[@KageJW]

Your are using the chair to prove the book. Why is this so difficult for him?

[@human_hope]

His brain is rotten

[@UngoogleableMan]

It's difficult because if he admits it, it shows his view on the bible is false and he can't do that.

[@BrianS1981]

As Upton Sinclair wrote "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

[@tonydarcy1606]

The Bible is exactly like an IKEA manual. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". (Exodus 22.18). How many witches has our caller done away with today ?

[@JoeBManco]

I knew I was forgetting to do something today. I seriously need to get a checklist.

[@Nozoki]

Does the instruction manual to build the chair also include a note saying that an invisible wizard is watching you in his crystal ball and will punish you if you build it wrong?

[@ngcastronerd4791]

I very recently had a discussion with a theist who insisted the bible counted as evidence for the claims in it. When asked if other scripture like the qu'ran was also evidence. He answered yes but not enough for him to believe it. I pretty much gave up after that.

[@Eldritch-1]

If you want to blow their minds ask about the Dharma or Bhagavad Gita both written thousands of years before judaism was even monotheistic

[@sammysamlovescats]

I remember in my Christian school I actually had a test question where I had to explain why "Saying the Bible is true because it says it's true" is a good reason to believe actually. Even at the time I was like ??? That doesn't make sense

[@Captain101-x1o]

Hello class and welcome to brainwashing 101!

[@Nickelini]

Aww, Matthew thinks he's so very clever. Matthew is wrong

[@jonathanleslie9100]

once you get through it, with ikea furniture you actually get something useful

[@dyamonde9555]

or at the very least you get IKEA furnitture

[@jonathanleslie9100]

@@dyamonde9555 I stand corrected. At least you get something to throw out after 18 months.

[@Eldritch-1]

@@dyamonde9555 Ouch... little harsh on IKEA?

[@dyamonde9555]

@@Eldritch-1 eh, maybe. mostly said it for the joke. Most of my furniture is from IKEA, and i'm actually pretty happy with it.

[@donneuner2883]

It’s just equivocations all the way down 😢🤷🏽‍♂️

[@mastereditor3483]

The making of the chair is the testing to prove the book

[@quacks2much]

About 60 years ago, I bought a do it yourself outdoor book that made a bunch of fantastic, but rather mundane claims (i.e., not supernatural) about real life in the outdoors. There was so much that turned out to be false when I tried the stuff, I eventually threw the book away. Since then, I analogize it to the Bible and woo woo claims in Mormonism, where I "threw away" my Christianity and Mormonism, because like the outdoor book, I didn't know what I could trust and what I couldn't.

[@mendez704]

These people don't even understand the basic difference between internal and external...unbvelievable.

[@1020kerry]

They are confused the map with the places. Idk why they can’t tell the difference.

[@GSC1ark]

Mathew has brain lock.

[@johnciano3524]

Omg wow lol hilarious how didn't he understand this.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Mathew has no 🧠

[@Pmrace1960]

Paul and Erica make a fine balanced pair....everything covered

[@BobSmith-ew5oi]

This fear producing book must be made R rated asap to protect innocent minds.

[@PajeetWarriorPrincess]

My new fav show. Love the diversity of theist callers and claims

[@darrenvickerson2834]

Maybe a clearer example for the caller would be an instruction manual for a time machine. This manual would claim to make a working time machine but there is no reason to believe it until we have a working time machine in front of us.

[@wandaru]

If you're in a closed door room with a book that says, "there is a talking snake outside this room", then this needs an external verification.

[@hank_says_things]

Matthew is living proof that the apologist's primary target is, necessarily, themselves.

[@Eldritch-1]

To paraphrase a Geman Philologist " Blessed is the man who can pull the wool over his own eyes"

[@NoStringsAttachedPrd]

The problem is the caller's example of using the book to prove the book _isn't_ using the book to prove the book, his example is of comparing the claims of the book to reality. And I agree, that isn't circular, that's a fine way of determining if the claims are true, and that's what the bible fails on. The equivalent in the instruction book analogy would be to say we know this is a trustworthy instruction booklet because on page 14 it says it is. And this is a problem, this is circular, and theists _do_ in fact often do that, when they say they believe something from the bible is true and when asked why will just point to somewhere else in the bible as the justification. This is wholly disanalogous to the instruction book, and the caller, with respect, doesn't seem to understand this.

[@RandyWanat]

News flash: defender of circular reasoning has sloppy critical thinking skills.

[@primafacie9721]

Yeah, like IKEA. Looks okay, but can't stand any pressure and falls apart.

[@KarlBunker]

As Satchel in the comic strip Get Fuzzy recently said, "Not the brightest bulb in the 'No Vacancy' sign."

[@petersage5157]

The muggle world in the Harry Potter franchise includes real-world parts of the greater London area, but you can't use the books to prove Little Whinging.

[@wizardsuth]

Spider-Man comics are set in New York City and feature real landmarks such as the statue of Liberty and the Empire State building, but they don't prove Spider-Man is real.

[@petersage5157]

@@wizardsuth Yes, I know many hosts at AxP and The Line love that example; I went with a variant.

[@QuarkLeptonTheOriginalRecipe]

Great job Erica and Paul!

[@mmoreno7137]

So Matthew seems to feel that Christians can live sinless lives? Then why did Jesus have to die? He also seems to be implying the book is valuable no matter what. It is not. If I need a chair and I buy what is supposed to be a chair but after following the manual I have a magazine rack then that book was useless to my needs.

[@Eldritch-1]

Jebus knew he was the son of Yahweh and death had no meaning for him so what did he sacrifice? a weekend?

[@ErnieMathews]

Oh gug, Matthew from OH. Strap in for verbose and jejune.

[@SapphJack]

I would've asked the caller to imagine a set of instructions that were WRONG. You have a book, "How to build a chair," You follow the set of instructions, to the letter, and when you're finished, you put your hand on the chair and it collapses, unable to hold any weight whatsoever. Now, in this scenario, what disproved the book's claim, was it the book, or was it the chair?

[@cheemster2619]

I like the Gorrilaz poster below the gorillas poster

[@rrodriguez4277]

Thanks for the video :3

[@littlefurrow2437]

My entire restaurant experience is based on non-napkin criteria.

[@brooks3376]

The bible says slavery is ok. Don’t forget that part of the instruction book.

[@AlDunbar]

The caller sounds like he is preparing to serve as the main defense lawyer at judgment day.

[@CeezGeez]

holy moly i applaud your patience hosts

[@cosplaykatt]

My vertigo is really bad right now so i figured id listen to the episode. He spun in that circle so fast he unwound my vertigo!

[@Fufiloofa]

If I gave you the instruction booklet on how to feed and take care of a rainbow coloured unicorn?

[@Eldritch-1]

Wait, you have rainbow coloured unicorns? sign me up for your newsletter. Still makes more rational sense than the big book of nonsense they like to tout

[@craigbradford4850]

Matthew 7:21-23 would demonstrate the opposite of what Matthew is saying. There are many that will will do wonders in his name and the Lord will say “I never knew you, depart from me. You practice lawlessness” So even if you follow the instructions you can still be denied heaven.

[@terrencelockett4072]

That's a big thing it seems like a lot of Christians ignore, especially when talking to nonbelievers. They seem to think they know they're doing Christianity the right way. They seem to think they could never be in the same boat with nonbelievers when it comes to heaven.

[@terrencelockett4072]

We know chairs exist too. So at least the foundation of the instructions is proven to exist. They can't even prove the base of their assumptions, that a god exists. The instructions don't have to prove that chairs exist before you can use it to build a specific chair.

[@MrBozoOzo]

How can this not hit home???😅 12 minutes in he says "I think I understand" and then repeat his misunderstanding. "But you used the instruction book" 😳

[@Alexa-Raine]

😂 something I love about debating these indefensible positions is all the various outlooks and ways of thinking can come out of defending an indefensible position. 🤔🥰

[@bokononbokomaru8156]

I built a chair from the instruction manual and it doesn't believe in gods either

[@brooks3376]

Catholics believe you are sinless between the time you leave Confession and when you commit your next sin.

[@Eldritch-1]

And if you tell some creepy weirdo in a collar about your sins all is forgiven, easy peasy.

[@helmutkok7833]

There is always something that seems out of order when you are done putting it together

[@BeefT-Sq]

"As far as reason and logic are concerned, existence exists and only existence exists". -Leonard Peikoff- Objectivist

[@JayMaverick]

Matthew's wacky ideas of reality always bounce between entertaining and excruciating.

[@mikenager922]

Paul needs to prove that the instructions for building a coffee table are correct.

[@stephpar.official]

Just wondering if the claim that no person alive on Earth can go a day without committing a sing, does this include those who are in a coma? If so, what sin could they be committing?

[@MRay2503]

Sloth. Lazy bastards.

[@BrianS1981]

Sloth.

[@sumo1203]

@@BrianS1981bit of a stretch, they’re not really committing anything. An accident happened to them

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

@@BrianS1981😂 excellent answer

[@kyuubisgirl3232]

@@sumo1203 You don't know that! What if they caused a car crash in a fit of rage or tried jumping off a bridge but didn't die?! If you can't take a joke and have to be anal then so do I.

[@yescats3327]

im happy to see coherent conversations with theists. maybe thats a low bar but i felt i gained some insight from this on matthews point of view. I cant say that most of the time with other callers

[@TheDahaka1]

The correct way to engage with this caller would have been asking "what chair is the bible instructing us to build", because the analogy was completely lost on him. They should have brought it back to what he was trying to say.

[@iainrendle7989]

Doorp.....not a chair!!!!! You blaspheme!!!!! Now an Ark of ever animal on the planet....yes and if you have a couple of spare stone tablets - your own Ark of the Covenant, but without the covenant parts.

[@gregoryeatroff8608]

Matthew is just repeating his assertion over and over again, and every time he tries to support that assertion he contradicts it... so he resets and once again repeats the assertion.

[@iainrendle7989]

Wrong.....that would imply Matthew is capable of original thought. He is rather repeating stuff other indoctrinated people have taught him. What do you call a christian with an original religeous thought.....if you find one let me know.

[@terryg652]

I built the chair without the instructions. Ergo I'm god.

[@Eldritch-1]

Yeah that actually makes more sense since I can objectively prove you and the chair are real... Yahweh, Allah, Bhudda ( TBF Guatama Siddartha did actual exist) etc... not so much.

[@jimster7277]

😮, The better analogy is having the chair instructions, but having no chair to verify the instructions.

[@bestbehave]

If you can build a chair it's a useful book. "true" is another matter If it tells you how to build a talking donkey, it's not a useful book

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Well, if it was actually able to tell you how to end up with a talking donkey, truthfully, it would be useful, because I could use a talking donkey to make a ton of money 😂

[@bestbehave]

@@HistoritorJimaldus Well, yes. It just so happens I know a book containing talking donkeys that has mede some people lots of money.....

[@Eldritch-1]

If you can dodge a wrech...

[@dwood21851]

Matthew was literally being prideful throughout this conversation. To say, he hasn't sinned in the past 24 hours while being so happy that he thinks he's right and having so much pride in himself is a sin.

[@JustTheFacts2]

Apple pie? Lust and desire? Insert obligatory Jason Biggs joke here.

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

Bom chika wawa 😂

[@uriahfindley6231]

Good call, open minded theist caller.

[@heiyuall]

I want a buddy movie of jewish hippie Jesus and german soldier Jayzus. Just driving around, Jayzus yelling Westboro threats out the window while Jesus chuckles because the truck was a gift from Cheech and Chong.

[@philipinchina]

I love you, Erika.

[@user-gk9lg5sp4y]

Love Erica and Paul. I'd love to see Erica and Shannon!

[@markboz3366]

I bought some IKEA shelves. I sort of used the instructions but actually built a bed.

[@enricopajaro4046]

I like how they struggled to make sense of the moronic chair argument

[@larrymoens20]

Ask him to prove with evidence something in the Bible external to the Bible. Good luck with that, Mathew.😊

[@mikehill1114]

@@larrymoens20 Well, the tricky thing is "the bible" is a collection of a lot of different books. So it's not actually using the book to prove the book. Granted, it doesn't make the argument much better, but it's not an argument I like to use with Christians. Because what they are actually using is several different books, letters, etc bound up in one volume. Sometimes even Christians arent able to articulate this distinction.

[@gowdsake7103]

@@mikehill1114 But all the books are the claim

[@mikehill1114]

@@gowdsake7103 Not exactly. It's kind of like saying we use science to prove science, it's overloaded terminology. If book A says: this is how you know god exists Book b says: god can only speak the truth Book c says: all scripture is inspired by God Then that's not circular. But suddenly if you bind them all up in one volume it is circular? I'm just saying it's an argument that doesn't ring true to me. I'm happy to say that "the heavens declare the glory of God" is a terrible proof and therefore book A fails, but I think calling circular is just flat out weak.

[@JimBobJoeB0b]

@@mikehill1114you assume that all those books stand on their own. Neither A, B or C are able to provide any “proof” of God’s existence besides *claims*. Not to mention that despite them being separate books, they are all bound together as part of the religious narrative, and said narrative is *circular*. “The Bible *as a whole* is true because the Bible says so” is the circular argument we take issue with.

[@Syrnian]

5:01 The instruction sheet did not 'prove' itself, the assembled chair did.

[@Kalopsia666]

Bingo

[@2l84me8]

Last time I checked, chairs were demonstrable and we don’t have 40,000 different denominations of chair builders arguing how to interpret the manual. The issue here is verifiability. Not blinding following a book and this caller deliberately tries to dance around that glaring issue.

[@badatheist9948]

I am going to use the Greek Pantheon to prove all Greek gods are real

[@firmbutton6485]

Is this a throwback? I’m sure I’ve heard this before?

[@BingFox]

Same here.

[@Captain101-x1o]

Religion is like IKEA furniture… It looks great in the showroom but, when you unpack it you realise the instructions make no sense and after hours of trying to construct something meaningful it just falls apart on closer inspection.

[@Eldritch-1]

Ocassionally Ikea furniture can be useful unlike religious ideas, AKA superstition.

[@barclaybehie7787]

Are there any supernatural elements to the instructions for the chair? That is my main question? And this is why critical thinking is important.

[@gottfriedosterbach3907]

That shows you Christian lack of objectivity regarding morality in that for them to acknowledge the qualities of a person they have to be unaware of their religious stances to be viewed positively on the same level.

[@gottfriedosterbach3907]

That kind of bias seems to be very common to me and the funny thing is I bet the moment they find out their opinion instantly changes despite no evidence that should.

[@rossmerritt1398]

So let's just say the book isn't one that comes with a kit, it's just a book that tells you how to build a chair, and expects the reader to have or be able to acquire the tools and materials described therein. For a certain amount of the readers, its a good assumption and they can build the chair exactly as described. But for others, they don't have all the same tools and materials, so they have to adapt and figure out how to use what they have to make a chair. For others, the measurements in the book make a chair that's uncomfortable for them- its short or too tall or too narrow, and they have to ignore some of the instructions to make a chair that works for them. That's like using the bible as an instruction manual. For some it fits, but that doesn't make it universally true.

[@Gerryjournal]

At least you end up with a chair

[@berth2647]

Did the caller said God made me stupid ... i cant build a chair .... how could people long ago survive without IKEA ???

[@jillum89]

An instruction book can _easily_ say “And now you insert the square piece in the triangular round hole”.

[@noone3216]

Youd think if ANY christian ever was able to live without sin, itd be the apostles, right? The saints? Yet it was Paul who basically said "i know whats right, i know i should do right, and i want to do right, yet i keep doing whats wrong". So not even the saints/apostles were able to live sinlessly Edit: oops, made this comment like 30 secs before Paulogia brought up the exact same point 😅

[@shmootube5000]

i need a book with instructions on where to find my brain after that conversation, i couldn’t tell you a single thing that was said. is my brain in the closet? i dont know anymore.

[@elem-sike4161]

I like the arguments they’re using to demonstrate why he’s wrong. But I wish they would’ve just asked him to test his idea. Ask “The bible claims we have a soul. Use the Bible to demonstrate that we have a soul”. And wait as he fails to complete his impossible task.

[@sabrina0013]

If an instruction booklet for a chair told me that godzilla is real, I don't care how good the instruction booklet is at building chairs. I'm still not believing in godzilla...

[@Hoboclimber]

So if the instruction booklet has a number of pages from a different chair by mistake how could anyone know until they referred to something external to the booklet ( like building the chair) ?

[@matter509]

We use evidence to establish truth. That's how our reality works.

[@Locust13]

Ugh. I remember this call. Someone who has abandoned their reason. Someone who doesn't recognize the circular reasoning fallacy.

[@Eldritch-1]

Religions require you to abandon reason and critical thinking.

[@catalhuyuk7]

“I guess no one ever taught you not to use the word you're defining in the definition.” Lucky # Slevin film.

[@girlwithtehface5880]

Matthew is so frustrating here. No, using the instructions in the manual is not using the book to prove the book. You're using the finished product to prove the book.

[@sumo1203]

Yeah he’s kind of an idiot

[@Mxxx-ii9bu]

Every time Erika or Paul point out that his analogy is flawed he says "Oh sure" but then immediately says something that indicates he has no idea that his analogy is flawed. He convinced himself that he had a winning argument. The idea that he was mistaken was inconceivable to him.

[@Eldritch-1]

Dude doesn't even understand the "prophet" or gospel he's named after.... sheesh