Ask Dungeon Masters 6: Sandy Petersen, Lindybeige & John Wick

[@DUNGEONCRAFT1]

Wow. This episode is a master class in game design. These chats just keep getting better and better.

[@QuestingBeast]

Thanks Professor!

[@RuiSaltao]

I would have loved seeing PDM with Sandy!

[@c_bass1971]

Lloyd just opened my eyes that sandboxing is a story that FOLLOWS from player action consequences. There is still a story. Maybe the rest of the planet understood this, but for me this will actually open up a play style that I havent been good at.

[@Miscast]

Wow! What a crew!

[@bathtubmafia2042]

Love that you time traveled to make this comment. Good job, Trent.

[@lucase.crusader1196]

@@bathtubmafia2042 lol. Why did that happen?

[@QuestingBeast]

@@lucase.crusader1196 Patrons get to watch videos before KZbin does.

[@lucase.crusader1196]

@@QuestingBeast :O great! Soon i'll get back to work, i shall donate then

[@fmatson]

Sandy Peterson wanting to watch Shadiversity DMing for Lindybeige is mindblowing.

[@mikecurley3849]

I was struggling for a town name once, so I stuck a 'd' in a toothpaste brand and got Coldgate

[@SchrodingersCatalyst]

madcleans

[@LakeVermilionDreams]

"The kidnap has been princessed by orcs!" is my new plothook!

[@Sibilisibili]

These are quickly becoming my favorite thing on KZbin! A note: a common comment seems to be that people want you to reveal your guests ahead of time, so they can ask more directed questions. I would hope that you don't, and instead keep them a secret until you release the episode (the way you've been doing it): had you revealed the guests here ahead of time, you'd probably have had ten thousand questions about CoC, and maybe as many on L5R, or whatever. Keeping the guests secret means you get fairly broad questions relevant to most GMs out there, and the answers have a high level of potency (as opposed to "How good is CoC?", or "What's your favorite japanese thingamajig?"). Also, you get really great conversations. So that would be my tip or hope, or whatever: keep doing what you're doing the way you're doing it, and keep doing it for at least ten years!

[@liondovegm]

Secret guest good

[@isamusherman5731]

I love how everyone you bring on this show is fans of eachothers work.

[@LimDul]

I think it's the first podcast where I observe how everyone is very much on the same page, even if coming from different systems.

[@gmrandolfo]

Sandy's sage advice..... YES. "I once had a player who said I penalized players who were stupid or unimaginative. All I can say is .... Alas."

[@freethrall]

I really love what you're doing here, Ben. These groups of creators you are pulling together are awesome.

[@samuelbourassa5304]

Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:37 Introductions 04:12 Sponsor NAMES 05:00 Coming up with names SANDBOX GAMES 09:54 Keeping track of consequences 12:38 The Because Rule 15:16 What is sandbox 17:16 Providing solutions COLLABORATIVE WORLDBUILDING 20:43 Allow players to establish facts about the world 26:14 Two kinds of players MECHANICS 29:05 Mechanics to incorporate more 31:47 Meaning of a success 32:25 Control mechanics & Horror games 33:26 Relying too much on dices and sheets 35:15 Becoming a better roleplayer CHARACTERS & CUSTOMIZATION 36:56 Classless character creation 39:49 Archetypes 40:41 Game balance 42:40 What is a good game balance? GAME DESIGN 45:53 Typical game loop 47:28 Fighting VS Negotiating 48:41 What is the fun part of the game? CAMPAIGNS 51:32 Type of endings 1:00:25 Player character races

[@tlink98]

Stellar timestamps. Much better than what I usually do.

[@QuestingBeast]

Using this. Thanks!

[@SkullDixon]

The story element that Lindybeige is talking about is that a protagonist should have something they want and something they need. The character doesn't always need to get what they want but they should always get what they need. Its through the process of getting what they Need that the character changes.

[@lordbiscuitthetossable5352]

Yeah. It's a good thing to know, it's the difference between a great story and a terrible one. I know one of my fellow players always wants very particular things, usually involving a subsect of the realm none of us has interest in, who is often situationally an antagonist due to being a cult. He seems incapable of ever changing what his character actually needs.

[@Yora21]

Sandy Peterson always has such a young voice. I generally don't look at the screen for videos like these, and Sandy still sounds like he's 25.

[@arturbb]

Wow, I had to double check the title on this one! What an absolute treat.

[@vincenthudon1520]

That «Ask Questing Beast» series is extremely entertaining and informative. I love it and I thank you and all the different guests that accepted the invitation.

[@arturbb]

I love the discussion on narrative freedom, and the point Ben made about discovery and exploration. I think in OSR games, much like how John argued is the case for horror games, narrative control for players will take away the feeling of discovery and exploration that is so essential to the core OSR experience. A huge part of the game is finding things out about the dungeon, discovering its secrets and surviving its challenges-why DID the wizard go mad? Why were these dead monks barricaded in this specific room? Where is the metallic smell that permeates this lower level coming from? As a player I don't want to feel like I'm the one making these things up, I want to find them out organically through play; the unknown loses its appeal if you're the one making it up. Of course this is not to say that I ALWAYS want to give up narrative control, in some games it truly enhances the experience, but for some games, and I think specifically in this case in OSR adventures, it is best for players to be asking questions, and not answering them.

[@rollingthunderinadownpour649]

Would love to see Shadiversity or The Metatron on a discussion here. AJ Pickett would be great too.

[@liondovegm]

AJ Pickett, Metatron, and Monte Cook

[@jimparkin2345]

"Roleplaying games aren't balanced. Shut up." Thank you.

[@peterdickinson4599]

That concept - around the 24:30 mark - regarding high and low rolls deciding who shapes the world, completely blew my mind. It is the antithesis of the “let the dice tell the story” philosophy.

[@paulvalentine4157]

Okay, hit pause while I go brew up some fresh coffee. What a panel - and I thought the Seth Skorkowsky - Professor one was off the charts.

[@RuiSaltao]

This series is pure gold. Please keep this up!

[@Bondanalloy]

Avengers... Assemble. Owait it's just another Questing Beast video... 33:45 this is why i slap my players down when they tell me they're gonna roll for something. i as the dm will tell you when you need to roll. otherwise, just tell me what your character does.

[@Daniel-Strain]

On die rolls for social interaction, here's how I make it more than just rolling, but also not penalizing players with less social ability... First, roleplay the interaction out. Judge the performance, but not the social 'smoothness' of the talk. Don't worry about how quickly they responded, how artfully worded, etc. Just judge the nature of the arguments they made and the strategy of what to mention and what not to mention. For example, if there were clues that the character was jealous of someone, and the PCs take note of that and say "this would really irk that person". Or if they use an argument that would be a good and believable point. My judgement of their approach then creates a modifier on the Difficulty of the task, and then they roll vs that difficulty. This is exactly parallel to using a character's strength roll to budge a heavy object, but modifying it because they had the good idea to use a nearby pole as a fulcrum.

[@khpa3665]

Yeah, I find the idea that you can't fall back on rolls pretty obnoxious. We play characters who are very different from us. If an introvert wants to play a Crane courtier to get the feeling of being a smooth operator, then the introvert shouldn't be penalised for not being able to roleplay that at the table.

[@epochrpg]

Another trick for names of places & NPCs I've used is choose a theme and stick with it. Once I ran a fantasy campaign where I had most NPCs loosely based on Star Trek characters. So one place was a fort where the NPCs were based on characters from Voyager. So there was a rakish Sgt. Bilco-esque officer running schemes, an overworked half-orc engineer with anger issues, a dispassionate warforged physician, etc. Later they go to a big city that was loosely based on DS9. Captain of the Guard was named Odysseus and turned out to be a Doppelganger. The owner of a bar was a money-grubbing kobold named Kark. Garrison was commanded by Centurion Kara Nurius, a tough but fair woman; slow to trust, but loyal. Elim the elf is “just a simple tailor” with an air of mystery/treachery about him. I did this for months before any of the players caught on that there was a theme to all the random NPCs.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

Dude...that dwarf thing is exactly how my brother played his elf! He should have died from grief when his partner died, but didn't and was trying to figure out how to live after that and with the pain... And maybe trying to connect with people again after a century of Hermitage. It was super cool.

[@chameleondream]

Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! That's one wow for each panelist. Great conversation, I'm really glad you did this.

[@davidwasilewski]

Your channel, and Dungeon Quest, are the two best RPG channels on KZbin. And I say that as a near 40 year veteran of DMing D&D and CoC.

[@Belgand]

I tend to treat die rolls as a sort of fallback. Players who aren't as good at something as their characters still have the option of just rolling for it, but then they're at the mercy of the dice. They still need to give me some idea of how they're trying to do it, though.

[@Giantstomp]

Spot on about there being different kinds of players and not all want to create the world. Knowing your players is huge and then changing your GM style to fit them (Provided you still like it). Not all players fit all GM's and vice versa.

[@duhg599]

13:10 Not to dredge up the Starlord thing, but that’s a great example of a Because action. Thanos broke free because Peter Quill completely lost control when he realized what happened to Gamora, which was absolutely true to his character. When it comes to women that he loves being killed, he doesn’t think, he reacts like an exposed nerve. Just look how quickly he shot his father when he realized that his mom’s cancer was deliberate. Regardless, the Suddenly/Because tool is a great idea. Good way to clarify why events happen.

[@jasonabdin7288]

Yeah, I had the same thought. This was a perfect example of the "because" rule, not the opposite. This was a misunderstanding of the character.

[@sanjeevshah168]

My question got answered!!!

[@magnaquam]

One of the best chats on gaming I’ve ever heard. Unbelievable. Thank you all. 👏👏

[@Ssarevok]

On the one hand, they have a point when saying they want more RP rather than dice rolling, which is all well and good, but like Lloyd (Lindybeige) pointed out: taken to the extreme, that means a non-technically inclined player can't play a bomb expert (or other technical professions). Or as Sandy mentioned: it means a player with lower IQ can't play a smart character and less eloquent people can't play at being persuasive. You could of course say "get good", but that's obviously not always possible. This is where I feel D&D fits in well: It lets you play at that power fantasy of being good at something, no matter if that something is "swinging a sword at people" or "talking to people".

[@Thunderdumpe]

I agree, but I think it also goes deeper. Both drama nerds and maths nerds like dnd, and people both enjoy telling stories and playing board games. For maths brains, often the rules are the game, like a board game or computer game, and the narrative is the justification/validation/reward for successfully understanding how the world works.

[@yvindheilo229]

When I think this channel couldn't possibly get any better.....it gets better. Feather in hats!

[@blakscot]

Ask Questing Beast just keeps getting better...although this panel will be hard to top.

[@FlintFireforge]

The fact that John Wick referenced Streets of Fire, just made him that much cooler.

[@earthwingbomber]

"Roleplaying games aren't *balanced*. Shut up." Yup, that's John Wick for you.

[@FlutesLoot]

I really like the idea of telling your players that you don't know how they're going to solve a problem, encouraging them to be creative because there isn't a presupposed answer. The commentary on what a "balanced TTRPG" experience is was enlightening. It's about whether or not a player character had a chance to shine so the player wasn't on their phone the whole session. And all aspects of the game have meaning.

[@FluffyTheGryphon]

Such a good chat. So many wonderful points across the board. All of you guys are amazing and thank you for doing this!

[@bobbylind5485]

KEEP. THIS. GOING! My new favorite youtube vids by far.

[@nyancharge]

Collabs are great idea. It' so much good information every time i watch it!

[@A.Elbereth.Gilthoniel]

42:18 Of course you mean Sam, not Frodo. (Otherwise, good point).

[@benpuffer7891]

There are a few online MMOs that decided to have a cataclysmic event happen when the game was coming to an end. Viking funeral.

[@NMahon]

Hey you got Sandy Peterson on! I recommended you get him awhile ago so I'm going to pretend I had something to do with this 😂 great episode, big fan of all of these people!

[@marcusflores9502]

I can't hit like enough for the mention of Jim Steinman and Streets of Fire!

[@donkeysaurusrex7881]

Sledgehammer fight!

[@abuzuhm]

Ben does a great job of explaining the issue with balance as a concept around 43:00

[@Dinofaustivoro]

This video: shows in my feed My brain: plays pompous british fanfaire

[@rebeccaschade3987]

Suddenly I got this image of a slightly dim half elf hearing one of his fellow adventurers talking about shaving and suddenly the half elf goes "They SHAVE?!" with a look of abject confusion on his face. Thanks for that one Lloyd :P

[@Caiowas93]

Hey Ben, shout out from Brazil! I've been enjoying these podcasts a lot! As a suggestion, you could bring Diogo Nogueira, the brazilian OSR author (sharp swords & sinister spells, solar blades & cosmic spells etc) to the show Congratulations for the great work you've been doing!

[@henriquefernandes7747]

Also the fellas from tormenta

[@falkyrie5228]

@@henriquefernandes7747 Tormenta isn't OSR... Tormenta actually embodies everything OSR is against if you think about it 😂

[@filipefhn]

@@falkyrie5228 but does that matter? doesn't need to be an "OSR community person" to give a relevant interview

[@falkyrie5228]

@@filipefhn No, but I thought that was the channels theme.

[@AdamWhitehead111]

Etymology is more important for place names than personal names. Families may not stay in the same profession but a city isn't going to move location.

[@redlemon13]

Thanks for answering my question :) great chat. Behind the name is a super useful site, thanks John!

[@stevenklinden]

Rarely have I found a discussion so interesting while also disagreeing with so much of what was said.

[@GiordanoBruno42]

A good idea for sandboxes is to run the first quest/activity as a railroad. Especially if you have new players. Tell them up front that they need to do a short preplanned quest, making up some in-world reason for it, that fits the characters. This quest is designed to give the players a controlled way to experience one or two combats and solve a problem by interacting with the world. It also gives the referee the opportunity to introduce the setting and it's quirks without endangering the party unnecessarily, whilst reducing the need for upfront lore dumps. Past this point, let the players know that they are on their own and must make their own decisions. "Be it dungeoneering, exploring, fighting, warring, mining, politics, rebellion or pouring a large beer. This world is now yours to make of it what you will." I like to make sure the players know a few easy sources of simple quests (notice board, hunters guild etc) by this point. This is my best attempt to allow them the confidence and freedom to be as creative as they want, whilst not feeling overwhelmed by infinite choices :)

[@possiblyfatal]

Been binding lindybeige’s vids and found your channel recently, so surprised to see him here! Awesome video

[@allluckyseven]

This was awesome, fascinating, and delightful! Please try to get these people together again for more of these videos! (Of course it doesn't need to be the same 3 people all the time, you know that.)

[@edwardmayne9114]

Look at that. Lindybeige the thief is doing another video and not addressing the fact that In Search of Hannibal is still not finished.

[@francoisdumont4105]

I knew I would enjoy this, but I enjoyed it more than I thought I would.

[@sneakyfred]

I'm a simple person. I see Lindybeige, I click.

[@Braincain007]

I was about to comment this same thing

[@Ing0s]

I'm excited to see the Game he will run. With all that expertise he has, a FKR-Style Game, set in the middle ages immediately comes to mind.

[@DragonBoi3789]

You are not alone in this, good sir.

[@edwardmayne9114]

Likewise. I see lindybeige, I downvote. I'd never support a man who steals from his supporters.

[@Braincain007]

@@edwardmayne9114 what do you mean?

[@alberthennen7370]

Thanks Guys, Really found this interesting , and awfully useful as an out of date DM. A lot of interesting and rather philosophical perspectives on Running and playing D&D.

[@ElwoodShort]

What n awesome discussion and what a great talk group. I could mine this vid for ideas and tips for an age.

[@dafrca]

I have always had an issue with a GM telling me to describe how I disable the trap rather than roll the dice. I am not a thief, I do not know how to disable a magical trap. The whole point of an RPG is to help me play something I am not. It is not about me being stupid, I just do not know how to pick pocket, I am not a super genius who knows how to cast spells, the dice is there to allow me to be what I am not.

[@PossumMedic]

Bold of Sandy to assume I can remember real peoples names! 😂😭 Another great episode! More of these please! :D

[@ivanrichmond3524]

Very insightful. Thanks. The two highlights for me were (1) play D&D with no classes and everyone gets to pick 10 abilities and go, (2) you never go beyond 1st level HP. I don't know if I'd quite go as severe as never going past 1st level HP, because HP are so precious at low levels, but I definitely feel that HP are broken in 5e. I really like how Hero's Journey does it where you get max at 1st level, HD at 2nd and 3rd and then just 1-3 HP, depending on Class, after that. That way, you get enough HP that you can survive some fights, but not so much that the arithmetic involved feels like work.

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

A lot of OSR has the lower hp. You get your hit dice (no con-modifier) through level...9? (Also generally smaller hit dice and always rolled even at level 1) and then they get like +1 hp per level after level 9 or so...

[@GiordanoBruno42]

Running OSE with Optional Ruleset I allow my players to break past the limits of their class, to use "incompatible" weapon types in a pinch, with a -2/-2 hit/dmg. If their character wants to, they could seek a skilled warrior to train them to use any weapon they like. Over time I give players a +1 to hit proficiency bonus, if they don't already have one and they have been using a specific weapon type a lot. Players with classes that start with a proficiency bonus (mostly martial or semi martials), will be able to develop to expert and master bonuses (+2hit +1dmg / +3hit +2dmg) at times I judge appropriate, granted per weapon type, with new weapons mastered faster each time. Non martial classes can gan expertise and mastery over a weapon, but they need to dedicate a lot of downtime to achieve it. This ensures any class could learn any weapon whilst not making the melee weapon combatants feel bad. Although, characters who need to hold a spellbook or some such will not be able to master two handed weapons as a hard limitation.

[@rollingthunderinadownpour649]

Loved Curse of Silverthorn!

[@andidecker]

This series is outstanding. Please do go on! :D

[@myautobiographyafanfic1413]

My mates are all creative, came into it like "who'd wanna be a player?" As much as he made it make sense, I was shocked hearing Ben didn't want to contribute to world building.

[@Knave676]

Sandy Peterson! that's a watch from ya girl Peterson: I've been playing with a group since '94, me born in '95: O.o

[@LakeVermilionDreams]

Wow, how have I not just used the names of people I know in real life?! I've got decades of work experience with hundreds of people, most of them I can easily recall their names and a brief character description of them! Funny how such an obvious little thing can feel so revelatory!

[@chrismiddleton398]

In the Jim Steinman RPG, can I get Fender guitar as a weapon proficiency?

[@ronniejdio9411]

I cant remember if it was a telecaster or a stratocaster

[@samchafin4623]

Loved the Kill Doctor Lucky reference! It's a great game!

[@Daniel-Strain]

Great discussion and people thanks! On player contribution, I am dead set against players having control over things their characters would not. However, I'm completely open to a player saying something like, "Wouldn't there be a key on this guy since he's guarding this place?" and then I will consider the chances of it, maybe even roll the chance, and rule on it. They might think of details I didn't. But it's always something I consider - never 'determined' by them. As a player that's what I want too. I want to feel like I'm interacting with an objectively existing world - not just sitting around writing a story with someone (a fun and worthy thing - just not why I play RPGs).

[@Arnsteel634]

Amazing group of people here

[@kurtoogle4576]

I loved this discussion! Thank you!

[@pallenda]

I could have listened to a 4 hours of this. Super interesting!

[@Wraithing]

Brilliant! What a treat. Thanks Ben.

[@AndrewWilson-ol6jb]

Incredible cast! I love these panels. I dont know how you can top this one though

[@jarrettperdue3328]

AMAZING lineup here!

[@xylord18]

The kidnaps been princessed by orks!

[@DragonBoi3789]

Next time Questing Beast puts out the call for questions I need to ask them what their opinions are of Arcadum's Twitch stream games and his persistent world of Verum.

[@sanjeevshah168]

Great answer from Sandy!

[@blackshard641]

"I should be easy to find." - John Wick. That was sly, sir.

[@Grimlore82]

All-star lineup!

[@PvtSchlock]

Headline Thorne is a fantastic lizard man name!

[@TheAurgelmir]

I personally like characer-class systems, because I like working within frameworks when creating a character. There's a fun challenge in figuring out how to become the best of a certain subclass. The Overpowered idea is silly, and I think it stems from the restrictions you have in classes. How often don't you read about the "perfect build", but most of those are just "I do lots of damage, and don't die". With a classless system you might get overpowered too, but you get less underpowered characters, since everyone can take what suits the most. Overpowered isn't the problem, the problem is imbalance in power levels between characters. If you have one guy who spend 10 weeks figuring out what 10 feats to take, VS the person who looked at the Cooking feat and said "Yep that's me" without thinking, you might end up with some players not having as fun. But that's a minor issue.

[@Calebgoblin]

Yoooo Matt Colville talked about "John Wick" and now you're proving that he's real

[@Weft14]

Greatest crossover ever! LINDYBEIGE!!!

[@patrickstuart3497]

You ever going to release these as a podcast Ben?

[@QuestingBeast]

Not really planning on it, but there's a bunch of sites out there that can download youtube videos as MP3s.

[@IVIaskerade]

I always heard the "because rule" talked about as the "therefore however" rule, but the concept is the same.

[@TheAurgelmir]

Most character races are sub-species in DnD. Most of them can interbreed, something different species tend not to. So race is actually more of a correct term, I'd argue more correct than we use for humans. Humans are basically all just different types of Retrievers, which is one of types of dogs out there.

[@paulcrosslin6011]

14:00 Yes! Not only do character choices co-create emergent game-play but by giving a broad leeway to Character Agency the DM is secretly farming all their ideas and wonders about the world they find themselves in. For me, this is the heart of ttrpg. The characters discover and experience wondrous scenarios and the DM gets to interact with the ever unknowable reactions and interactions. This is where the real life magic happens. Why D&D endures. People gathered around a shared experience. A campfire around which human existence is expressed. Telling shared stories of triumph and tragedy as truly lived by our characters. From Zero to Hero, there are no unworthy stories.

[@Parker8752]

To me, in games where overcoming a challenge is part of the fun for the players, game balance is a question of how much a character is able to contribute to the success of the team. Some games make that easier than others, while those others require more creativity from both the GM and the players. Let's take D&D 3.5 as an example - in theory, once you get beyond around level 12, fighters and rogues are basically useless to the party. A party of wizards, druids and clerics can handle basically any combat-based problem they encounter at that point. The wizard will have made a few wands of knock and a few scrolls of improved invisibility to make up for the lack of a dedicated locksmith in the party, while the cleric is almost as good at fighting as a fighter would have been and the druid can handle basically anything nature related. However, this forgets one important point - powerful villains will know that powerful magics exist, and will prepare for them. What they can't prepare anywhere near as easily for is the level 12 Rogue with a +20 to each of hide and move silently, a +22 to open lock, and a blatant disregard for the property rights of evil liches. Likewise, with the leadership feat, a level 12 Fighter might well have up to a 17 leadership score (12 for level, assuming 10 charisma for no bonus or penalty there, +2 for a great reputation, +1 for being a fair and generous ruler, +2 for having a base of operations), and a band of 35 trained soldiers, even if they're almost all level 1, can get a surprising amount done if used properly. The thing is, however, that this requires the GM to provide obstacles that mundane skills taken to a superhuman level can solve more easily and reliably than magic.

[@penitentialarts]

Ben - When you put out the call for viewer questions among your patreon subscribers, it would help if you could indicate who the guests are going to be. Maybe I missed it, but if I had realized that the host of Lindybeige was going to be on this, there are some specific questions I would have liked to have asked. Having said that, great discussion!

[@liondovegm]

We don't want specific questions for certain people.

[@Gumby-vx7ki]

Thank you for all the great ideas I can use in my games. I am perfectly fine with players playing non-human species, even if they play them in a way I don't prefer. It's their game, too.

[@gebatron604]

literally rewatched lindybeige's "dnd is stupid" vidoes a few weeks ago wondering if he would ever do an interview with QB

[@pendantblade6361]

One day you're gonna have DnD and Games Workshop creators on your podcast, damn son!

[@007nikster2]

"D&D creators"? You mean Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax? Not going to happen

[@Yora21]

Didn't he have Tim Kask already?

[@pendantblade6361]

@@007nikster2 People who work on DnD, silly.

[@johnmagowan6393]

I need yodeling championship mechanics now.

[@markfaulkner8191]

This is a true master class episode!

[@ronniejdio9411]

Ben your hitting home ru s with these q&as Greatness