Sinking Ships - FirexSpotted: How a Terrible Romance Redeemed Two Characters

[@mentalcel612]

The only thing I remember about Spottedleaf is that she smelled nice tbh

[@raiivenwastaken]

Mei PFF exactly-

[@hollowrose]

All I remember is she was slaughtered by MapleShade-

[@homsar]

Lmao same

[@Talliastral]

Mei OMG 😭😭😭

[@zulpizalucero6735]

I thought you said fish :) *dont attack me pls I was joking-*

[@cindykhuu4420]

Truthfully I believe it was a poor mistake on the Erin’s part with the fan service. You can’t have an author bow to fan pressure and do what they want because it changes and it would hurt the story if it’s not something you had in mind. You can’t have an author finding out that people already know the outcome and drastically change the direction at the last minute because it’s unexpected. When your an author you have to be in charge of your story but also take in criticism from critics and your fans and decide wether to use it or not. I learned this from a channel called *“Terrible Writing Advice”* I really recommenced it.

[@Cloverrfrostt]

I agree.

[@roiroije243]

TWA is brilliant.

[@Maggot_bonez_508]

Agree

[@energeticcreeper7969]

ah yes, the 10,000 captains or suicidal captain debate. a tale as old as time.

[@sandyaraujo5222]

Love

[@dreamiinotdream730]

Honestly I was very uncomfortable with the SpottedXFire ship. I didn’t like how she continued to be like ‘Don’t forget I love you’ and EVERYONE finding out that Firestar and Spottedleaf are in love. And how this man continued to be in love with her even tho he had a mate and she had been long since dead. I was kinda relieved that Spottedleaf kicked the bucket for a final time. Sandstorm was the better option.

[@SiduriSkiBike]

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Fire😘Sand 😁😁😁 Sandstorm is great

[@WingItMan217]

Sandstorm was WAY better for him. They actually had development

[@queen-monarch]

Also, she died when he was still an apprentice, meaning that he was technically underaged when this romance happened in the first book. Also the romance was pretty much nonexistent in the fort book. I mean like, when exactly was there love between those two? I didn’t pick up on it, and she was dead when it was confirmed!

[@someabominationfromanother3190]

@@queen-monarch i feel like the reason why spottedleaf fell in love with underraged rusty/firepaw is because of thistleclaw

[@MONNSTROSITY]

Honestly, the ship in general just made me sick. Personally, I do actually like spottedleaf. But the “romance” between her and Firestar just seemed like some stupid fanfiction written by an 11 year old. It felt forced and unneeded. I mean, Sandstorm was a love interest from the start wasn’t she? Did the Erins really need a pointless love story between the two? Not to mention she was dead and over 2 YEARS OLDER. I wish someone would’ve told Fire that love at first sight doesn’t exist 🤦‍♀️ especially if the only compliment you have for them is that they “smell nice”.

[@2devious724]

Call me a dumb kid of the past but, when I first read the first arc, I didn't see romance between Firestar and Spottedleaf. I thought they were great friends to the point that she would guide him in death. When I saw how the romance was pushed on them in later books and by the fandom I was appalled.

[@ravenpotter3]

2 Devious me too

[@queen-monarch]

Neither did I, I didn’t see ANYTHING there. I’m still shock that there was apparently a romance.

[@flamestormthecat2833]

I knew she was his child hood crush when i read the first book, but yeah, it was weirdly written and to some, especially younger audiance, might not've picked it up bc it was such a poorly written part in the series.

[@Flowerbarrel]

Yeah. I thought he just liked Spottedleaf because mostly everyone else in the Clan didn't like him, but Spottedleaf was always nice to everyone, and Firestar appreciated that. Well, Spottedleaf was mostly nice to everyone, anyway. As long as they were nice. I loved that she put Tigerclaw in his place when he was bothering Ravenpaw after the battle where Redtail died. No one messed with Spottedleaf! She was a good doctor.

[@tinystrawberry1862]

I was severely the opposite lolol, I loved Fire and Spotted ship a lot. But looking at it from the point where it's pretty much a teenager and young adult kinda waiting to fall alive when their both of legal age. I know their both cats, but it just kinda opened my eyes to how creepy it was

[@strawberrylemonade8608]

Spottedleafs only character trait is smelling nice

[@sandyaraujo5222]

❤🎉😊❤

[@ohno3464]

To be honest, Firepaw having a crush on Spottedleaf kind of makes sense. He's roughly the equivalent of a preteen/teenage boy in "Into the Wild", and we all know that teenage boys are attracted to young, beautiful women, which perfectly describes Spottedleaf. The fact that she's also one of the only cats to treat him decently when he's being bullied by his peers and superiors would have also served to make her seem even more perfect in his eyes. I also personally disagree with the people who claim that he "couldn't choose" between Sandstorm and Spottedleaf. Pardon me, but I'm fairly certain there was a scene in "Firestar's Quest" where he explicitly chooses Sandstorm. Just because he was upset over Mapleshade killing Spottedleaf in the Great Battle doesn't mean he's still in love with her. Like...he's allowed to be upset about the fact that he won't get to see his friend in StarClan, people.

[@lakewhistle2257]

I totally agree with all of it!

[@olivia-ty9sx]

Omg yes!

[@DenjiHayakawa]

I agree on most of this, it's just Spottedleaf for me. I really don't like her because she confused Firepaw/star with her vague prophecies and stuff and distracts him from what he needs to be doing, even as a frickin ghost!! She's just super annoying to me..

[@yawninglion1677]

Yeah, Fire's side of it made some sense. Spotted's side of it always creeped me out, though. Even as a kid I was baffled.

[@shingshongshamalama]

He chose Sandstorm. until he dies that is

[@Spectorwing]

Reading this series when I was little, I always thought of their relationship as romantic, same with cinderpelt and firestar. Rereading it now especially in the wild I can't find any hints of the romantic undertones I once felt, it felt to me that spottedleaf treated firepaw the same way leafpool would treat say alderpaw, or even to an extent sorreltail, she obviously liked him ( as in tolerated and enjoyed talking to ) but nothing more. When I was little, I didn't like sandstorm or spottedleaf with firestar but rather cinderpelt, while now I see sandstorm is the best possible partner for him, and that the others .. it's interesting how things change

[@Cloverrfrostt]

You see, I was the opposite. When I was little, reading these cat books, I never say a romantic relation between the two. So I was surprised when I learned of the ship. I didn’t get why people would ship them. I still don’t get it but at least he never became mates with her.

[@Spectorwing]

@@Cloverrfrostt honestly when I was little I shipped everyone with everyone no one was spared lol

[@Cloverrfrostt]

spector wing He he

[@monoruss]

same though!! When I was younger and read Into The Wild for the first time I thought it was a really romantic relationship, but I was re-reading the book earlier today and it didn't really mention much about firepaw's relationship with spottedleaf. There were only like three moments that showed his relationship with spottedleaf, and most of them were about how nice she smelled when she gave him herbs.

[@sgtruru]

Yess she has a MOTHERLY relationship with Firepaw. People seem to confuse a cat being motherly or fatherly with romance.

[@cassiegainer785]

Honestly what disappointed me about the ship was that it could have possibly ended more organically in the first arc. When firestar receives a life from her, she gives him Love and tells him to use for all his clan mates and especially sandstorm, just have that as spottedleaf moving on.

[@catudraws8497]

You: “She’s a Mary Sue” Also you: *explains why she isn’t*

[@warriorcatskid003]

Y’all realize Spottedleaf was like, a whole adult, and Firepaw was baby. How were people not weirded out by it???

[@stripe-eyes3244]

Firepaw was an adult cat when he fall in love

[@adt4864]

Firepaw was not apprentice age.

[@marijougonzalez8437]

@@NJackie she was five years old, regularly a warriors at that age would move to the elders den in a year when they are six, she is a medicine cat of course but that is definitely not “teen” age, she is a full adult cat while fire paw just got out of kit hood. Sorry for responding to a comment that is seven months old, just had to be said.

[@blondeashfur3445]

@Greeny Well I mean real life cats don't but in Warrior Cats these cats are made to resemble humans.

[@SavouryGalette]

Double standards, Audrey. It's double standards.

[@CrystalKitty1220]

"How often do you see something go so wrong that it loops back to the other side of the scale and has a positive effect?!" I think that's what they're trying to do with the new series. And it's working, godammnit.

[@CatoftheStorm]

Spotted and Fire never made sense to me when I read the original series. I didn't see the chemistry. Sure, I believed Firepaw/heart liked her (he thought about her and wanted revenge) but I never got the feeling she liked him back the same way. It is too bad that the series never had Firestar move on and stop thinking about her. That would have been growth on his part. I think the authors tried it in Firestar's Quest with Sandstorm bringing it up, but then the authors just had Spotted return and Firestar keep thinking about her (as you mentioned in the video). I think even Cinderpelt told Firestar to think about the cats he did have in his life, meaning Sandstorm (and herself) and stop mooning over Spottedleaf. I think instead of Spottedleaf dying for Sandstorm in the Dark Forest battle, Yellowfang or even Cinderpelt could have done it if it had to be done. They felt like they had a relationship with Firestar more than Spottedleaf ever did in the main series (guides set aside as "optional reading".)

[@crazycreaturestudios]

Finally!! someone who agrees with me that the cats don't have to choose just one love!! i've been thinking that for ages!

[@evahagen9131]

Imagine theres a man. He started dating a girl in his early adulthood. They have adventures together, travel, fight by each others side, and develope their characters with every argument they have, allways comming out as a stronger couple after it. They marry and soon have two amazing daughters, and they spend their years watching them grow up, and have a family of their own, so now they have 3 beautiful grandchildren... ...and then when he's dead he has to make the dicision of beeing with his wife OR his highschool-crush, the girl that smelled nice and that laughed a couple of times about his jokes when they sat together in the cafeteria. ....man, I would have no Idea who I would pick.... But I get it, the best romance is allways the once in your head. Fire and spotted are a great couple because they NEVER WHERE a couple. Sandstorm and him where great, but of course not perfect, because every relationship faces problems allong the way. That's why the "What could have been..."-romances are so appealing. They can be as perfect in your head as you want them to be. I just wished the erins would have addressed this instead of having an unnessassary tragic death.

[@whitleyspencer7375]

I never really liked the Firestar and Spottedleaf at all,espescially when she died and kind of just followed him around. I really hated it when they kept bringing her back up in Firestar's quest when he already had a mate Sandstorm. idk but it just really annoyed and creeped me out.

[@bellad0nna145]

Exactly! She even followed both of Sand and Fire's kits! Im on Starlight (about 3 books away from where my country is in the books currently) and the three books before she talked to either Leafpaw or Squirrelpaw. I hate her ._.

[@whitleyspencer7375]

@Master_Blue120 I get your point,Imo I never really liked how the Erins deal with the love relationships in warriorcats,I like a few of them but most of the time it gets annoying and boring usually making me stop reading for a while,but yeah honestly thought it was very unnerving for her to just..follow him and his daughters around.It definitely could've been handled better

[@TrinketTheDragonsHoarde]

@@whitleyspencer7375 I know this is responding way late but... what if Spottedleaf had thought of him as a son or a brother instead of a romantic partner? Would it have been as unnerving for her then to follow him and his family around? I honestly think given their ages that would have made more sense.

[@Cloverrfrostt]

I don’t really think Spottedleaf and Firestar was exactly needed. It may have served its purpose as being a problem that Firestar had to overcome but besides that it was kind of creepy. Dead person continually stalks and attracts much alive person even after he proves he doesn’t want to be with her and gets a wife. That sounds like Spottedleaf has issues and has some kind of unhealthy, terrible, infatuation with someone she had nothing to do with. It may have not been her intent to confuse and pressure the cat but she still did it regardless. Now that I think about it Spottedleaf was being creepy. It’s creepy the way she always smelled so good and how she was so innocent and everyone loved her and how she wouldn’t stop visiting and reminding herself of some cat and his family despite the fact that she was obviously being creepy. She doesn’t deserve to be the Princess of StarClan no matter how much everyone loves her. Spottedleaf and Firestar’s “relationship” may have made Firestar more mature but it certainly didn’t really help Spottedleaf overcome her problems. Spottedleaf is still the same old cat she always was except she now knows that seeking more out of life after you lived yours and making your fantasies and all the things you always wanted to do a reality is bad and selfish. Oh give me a break. Spottedleaf didn’t have to haunt Firestar to learn that lesson. She was an adult that “got” preyed upon by an older man, not canon, she should know better that this would influence young Firestar’s mind. Firestar was naive and was still finding his place in the clan by the way. Just... fuck me. What an irresponsible woman! I think I hate her now.

[@cringeyusername8216]

Probably because of thistleclaw

[@Cloverrfrostt]

the iron dragon That’s no excuse.

[@shxxnami]

Cloverfrost the Niftiest Warrior - I think she kind of ( actually obviously ) got traumatized by thistleclaw, and had some mental illness right after. I can’t find any other reason of why she is creepy, if it isn’t that

[@Cloverrfrostt]

Shoonami - In the video Quiet Rage states that Spottedleaf only haunted Firestar because she couldn’t let go of the fact that she had died so young. She never got to live her life so she tried to hold onto Firestar, someone that meant something and got to be young and do many things. So I guess she felt the need to look after Firestar so she could always be reminded of being free and so she could mean something. This still isn’t really an excuse for literally over staying her welcome but I guess I see what she was trying do. I guess I’m saying that that’s the reason she was a creeper. Not Thistleclaw’s grooming and preying of her, which is already a sensitive topic, but her yearning for a life she couldn’t have. Hope I made sense.

[@shxxnami]

Cloverfrost the Niftiest Warrior - Yeah you did, that makes sense

[@JlMMOTHY]

its kind of odd how spottedleaf was groomed as a child and then fell in love with a cat who was young enough to be her kit.

[@amanda-rf1hv]

ok, no hate, but atleast she wasn't downright creepy with it like thistleclaw. like, thistle manipulated her and gained her trust in a creepy way, only for spotted to realize his behavior and act against it. she wasn't manipulative or scary with her behavior while alive, and when she was dead, she showed signs of obsession, but she again never really groomed him like thistle did with her. no hate, again. just stating my opinion :D

[@JlMMOTHY]

@@amanda-rf1hv yes, it's not creepy like spottedthistle, but spottedleaf being so obsessive over firepaw can't be healthy. spottedleaf was also a good twenty-to-thirty "cat years" older than firepaw, which isn't a horrible thing, but it's a very sizable age-gap.

[@xol7274]

I don’t ship SpottedXFire. It is really dumb, honestly. It wasn’t cute, it wasn’t interesting to read until Firestar’s Quest, and it was only interesting because of how Sandstar doubts Firestar’s love for her. It was extremely uncomfortable on how Spottedleaf always visits Firestar in his sleep and *she smells good.* I was quite relieved when she finally died in omen of the stars. SpottedXFire isn’t love, it’s just a childhood crush that Firestar can’t forget and a life that Spottedleaf couldn’t have.

[@crumblyairship]

i recently reread Into The Wild, and it’s weird how FirexSpotted became so popular. they didn’t interact that much (while she was alive, i mean), and it was...strange. just weird.

[@walnut-kitto]

Spottedleaf's favourite soda: Orange Crush

[@Duothimir]

You forget Fireheart's naivete in the first series. While everything generally works out in the end, he has a bad habit of misunderstanding things that should be obvious.

[@lesbyleth]

If you will, I think the reason firespotted took a turn for the worse was 1) bad writing (!!) and 2) retcons. Spottedleaf was clearly intended to be much younger originally (saying Darkstripe is old and she's young when she's older than him, like I said, retcons). Say, if instead of dying and being obsessed with him she instead guided him and was his friend, it'd be much better. Instead of this great love, she could've just been someone he looks to for guidance, and the story would remain basically the same with minor changes. Also, I agree that cats shouldn't have to choose, after all, even the erins said that Gray Wing probably picked both Slate and Turtle Tail. The whole thing is just ridiculous to me, and I just wish they handled their relationship better.

[@raiivenwastaken]

Pff honestly I never understood or liked the SpottedLeaf and Firestar ship. They barely ever talked and the only thing he seemed to like about her was her ‘sweet scent’. Kind of sad that he still kept obsessing over her, even when him and Sandstorm became mates. It would be nice if he stopped ‘loving’ her at some point, as part of his character development- Wait, wait, wait people are asking if Firestar picks Sandstorm or SpottedLeaf in Starclan? Come on.... I can’t even call it a proper question.

[@andy-fu5yz]

Wait...so redtail had waited for moons for his sister and when she came she just stayed in her nest???

[@fallingskies8991]

Firestar and Sandstorm are one of my favourite ships :p

[@rachelleredd8803]

7:55 I was so ready for an ALTA reference at the 'But all of that changed..." and I can't decide whether to be disappointed or not

[@vernowietsch]

Of course spottedleaf had character flaws. Her eyes are amber instead of green or blue. If that's not an imperfection then I dont know what is.

[@intellectualbug7423]

.. What?

[@MONNSTROSITY]

I am slightly confused but,, understandable have a nice day???

[@polyvampz]

LMAO

[@SavouryGalette]

How did two people not get this??

[@kittykat5915]

Today in math class I was on this love calculator instead of working and even though I hate this ship, I put Firestar and Spottedleaf in the calculator, and it said 100%.

[@ironwolf1556]

Wow.

[@txylas]

I though the title said FireXSquirrel.. IM SORRY-

[@meIIohi]

*FBI OPEN UP---*

[@queenofthisship]

Times Firestar fucked up for those who think Firestar is a Gary Sue (the ones that I can remember): 1. He literally goes behind Bluestar's back to stop a war between clans, which lands him in trouble. 2. He held a major grudge against Graystripe when he was sneaking off to see Silvetstream. This also affects his ability to actually function around his friend, creating a rift between them in the process. 3. He is shown to be way to trusting and it gets him into trouble. 4. The times he feed other clans for the sake of wanting their cats to live. 5. The fact that he CLINGS to Spottedleaf long after she is dead is a huge flaw. 6. He was controlling when it came to Squirrelpaw and Brambleclaw. I think he lashed out at Bramble, but its been a decade since I last read the books.

[@mysticalkitten4650]

a quote from blixemis erbow cinderpelt and spottedleaf cinderpelt says "not to mention your pretty much a stalker but no-one gives a shit cuz you're such a sweet talker"

[@inactive8814]

I remember my friend always made me feel bad for shipping Firestar with Sandstorm instead of Firestar with Spottedleaf or Cinderpelt, so you have no idea how therapeutic it is for me to finally see SpottedFire sink. Pettiness aside, the ship is creepy as fuck and makes very little sense.

[@flurryhowl9277]

5:00 Now that I'm looking back at that scene, I'm kinda disappointed cause an evil medicine cat would've been lit-

[@waterkatkreations8639]

This is an amazing video! I completely agree that this ship develops the flaws of both characters. I'm not really sure what I think about the ship myself, but I'm just glad it gives Firestar some interesting depth to his character. I love your interpretation of Spottedleaf's feelings- it makes her feel a lot more dynamic and thought-provoking for sure!

[@-zawolf-8325]

I’m not gon lie I thought firestar was gonna take on the role of his father (jake).

[@Blio_]

I remember hearing that Spottedleaf and Firepaw were in love and I just thought “Wait what....?”

[@tobevods9613]

what makes this ship worse is when spotted was alive, she was about 4 years old when she died and fire was hardly even an apprentice, It's almost like she learned nothing from thistle-

[@tobevods9613]

although her answer does make it better-

[@katart8212]

Spottedleaf: tells Firestar to love Sandstorm Also Spottedleaf: goes behind Sandstorm's back and flirts with Firestar in his dreams

[@michael-oy7rt]

also the age gap is pretty uh creepy. in the original series it might have been intended that she was around the same age as firepaw but due to bluestar’s prophecy including her it makes her a fair bit older than him. probably an accident on the writers part but then again they don’t seem to care about age gaps at all lol.

[@luxarcanae]

I'm suprised you didn't mention the scene in Firestars Mission, if I remember correctly, Sandstorm confronted Firestar about his dreams with Spottedleaf and Firestar choose Sandstorm and Spottedleaf admitted, that it could have never been anyways. For me personally, that scene kinda ended the triangle. And that's why I hated the last book of season 4. Like, the ship that was already over had to be brought back as I guess a reminder that it even existet (?!) and was enden again in a much worse way than before. Then again, the whole season finaly was kinda a let down for me personally becase I hoped for so much more that was hinted on earlier and never got that. But well, that's what fanfictions are there for XD. Anyway, the video was awsome and I'm sooooo glad you're back and also having the semester break to enjoy ^.^

[@verimetagala]

It's called firestars quest

[@luxarcanae]

@@verimetagalaThanks didn't know that because I'm german so I have no Idea how stuff is called in English, I was guessing ^^

[@verimetagala]

@@luxarcanae your welcome

[@thelanktheist2626]

And I don’t know why they killed her off again for a trivial reason, mostly for fan service

[@letíciagabriela0707]

@@thelanktheist2626 No, they killed her off because she didn't want neither Firestar or Saltstorm (Sandstorm) to suffer.

[@gh0st1yxd29]

Spottedleaf is a Mary sue confirmed

[@SavouryGalette]

I didn't know I needed this kind of content in my life. Now I do.

[@-zawolf-8325]

“similar to how a boy may fall for the school nurse” *hol up*

[@contentunknown5986]

Tbh I have no idea why people just started shipping fire X spotted because like fire paw was a apprentice when he joined the clan, and spotted leaf was a full grown medicine cat.. To me it's like having a crush on their baby sitter ngl

[@queen-monarch]

[Content Unknown] agreed

[@mariat8647]

The only tragic thing that happened is that redtail waited forever just for spottedleaf to stay in her den

[@christineholt8391]

Honestly who else ships greystripe and firestar more than firestar and spottedleaf-

[@aprilm96]

The way she acted and the age gap makes me think that her feelings came out of her trauma with Thistleclaw. But she almost did the same thing to Firepaw that was done to her which doesn’t make a her a good cat.

[@randomchannel609]

I think that firestar in the first series was meant to be starclans golden boy

[@sylvurrlights]

I think the cats that double died were reincarnated. It would only make sense because you can’t just go completely out of existence and have any form of a mind... I can’t explain it.

[@CircusSabre]

Yall realize that firepaw was like the cat equivelent of 14 and spottedleaf was probbably the cat equivelent of late 20's

[@apossum6231]

What’s worse is Spotted is way older than that. She’s atleast 40 yrs old.

[@1Katakana]

I have an idea of a AU. What if Jayfeather and Alderheart (and possibly Leafpool) were actually never suppose to be medicine cats, but because Spottedleaf clings to every new generation of Firestar's line, the living cats ended up believing that that was their destiny. Cause seriously, when has 3 members from the same family in a row ever ended up with the same position within the clans? Also, it would have been way better if it was canon-ised that Firestar fell for Spottedleaf because she was one of the few cats that were kind and gentle to him from the moment he arrived, but then lost that crush after learning that she's a medicine cat/that she's uninterested in a relationship, and that she's kind/caring to everyone, not just him/not just because he's special to her, cause that's just who she naturally is/just how she naturally interacts with others. Would have been a nice lesson for young readers that kindness/someone caring about them doesn't automatically mean that that someone likes you/wants you as more than their friend.

[@jake4725]

OMG! I blink and you went from like 500 to 19.5k! Good job buster!

[@hexoversex8487]

Great video. I have genuinely missed you and the content you make, quiet rage. Also I love the inclusion of the Stonks meme. He he.

[@WarmBreadBearBuddy]

(FireHeart dreaming with SpottedLeaf) FireHeart: Hey SpottedLeaf, could you help? TigerClaw’s treachery made bluestar weird, how do I help? Good smelling SpottedLeaf: (shrugs) Idk man, hey you wanna go smell my fur in that bush over there?

[@Nevverhrrt]

Spottedleaf, a whole adult and fully fledged medicine cat (probably at least a year old, or like 20 in cat years) and Firepaw, a tiny baby who had just reached sexual maturity at 6 months (e.g, a 12 year old). Disgusting.

[@Elsweyr_Enthusiast]

The thumbnail was great, she has a “orange crush” lol

[@Flowerbarrel]

Oh, God. You’re right. Two people marry, one dies. After a while the widow gets remarried. Then when they die and go to heaven, the first spouse is there and isn’t allowed to say, “Hey, thank you for comforting my sweetheart and being there for them when I couldn’t.” That’s horrible. People get remarried all the time. Crowfeather has a couple mates. Feathertail’s probably the type to say, “thanks for keeping him company so he wasn’t lonely.”

[@abcde_ghijklmnopqrstuvwyxz2188]

But the problem is that Firestar and Spottedleaf never even became an official couple. Spottedleaf was a simple childhood crush, they barely even had any scenes together. So the impact it had makes no sense.

[@razzmatazz6125]

*The nightmare before Christmas music I’m screaming*

[@ivorythebashful]

Am I only your patreon now? I... Wasn't expecting that! Really liked this video!

[@adt4864]

Firestar is a levelheaded Mary Sue because he’s a kittypet and not an insane rivaling cult clan cat.

[@sarucookie_4824]

yay finally youtube gave me something that i can listen in the background while drawing my warrior cats ocs and agree with it

[@sachicocoa9013]

When I first read "Into the Wild," I didn't read their relationship as romantic. He's JUST got there and is a newly made apprentice and he's already fallen for someone?? The only confirmation I got that Firepaw loved SpottedLeaf was when she died and he said: "Goodbye my sweet SpottedLeaf..." I thought: "That was it??" I only got confirmation that one or the other loved each other from the...first book of the next series after the first one?

[@sugerwillowsmores5345]

Tbh I when I read the first book didn't even realise they where in love xD

[@roiroije6326]

11:31 I've actually never thought about that. Thanks for pointing it out, may help me in my various Warriors roleplays/stories.

[@Tusslestrike]

Damn thats so weird I was just rewatching all your videos the past few days thinking I hope you make a new one soon... Im glad you're back! Great vid!

[@tallfry_uwu8685]

6:01 I don't know why but i really want more of those self inserts in warriors just because its new and interesting to encounter characters in the story.

[@BPJD2004]

It’s honestly extremely creepy that people ship Fire and Spotted and Bluestar and Thrushpelt, but not, say, Dove and Tiger. The main problem most people have with Dove and Tiger is the age gap, which isn’t huge, mind you, compared to the age gaps between the two above mentioned ships. Bluestar was a kit when Thrushpelt was a warrior, and, for those who don’t know, Thrushpelt and Tawnyspots are littermates, for those who even remember Tawnyspots from Bluestar’s Prophecy. Boom! Huge age gap right there. I will also put forth Thistleclaw, famous for his role in the above mentioned book and for his creepy pedophilia in Spottedleaf’s Heart. Creepiest bit here? Spottedleaf was not only older than Darkstripe (despite what Graypaw said in Into The Wild) AND Tigerclaw, but she was the same age as Thistle in that book, and in a similar position of power when she supposedly “fell in love” with Firepaw. Essentially, she was repeating what had happened to her, on Firepaw, only she didn’t get very far. Disgusting, right? That is why, I hate Spottedleaf, and think people need to calm down when judging age gaps in Warriors

[@QuietRage]

Personally, I don't like DovexTiger because Tigerheart is a douche

[@gerardgarcia4005]

Spotted leaf will always still seem pretty creepy to me sorry about that I guess. I love the video do whatever you have to do will be here waiting. ❤️

[@honeymoonlamplight8906]

Yet no one ever mentions the age gap, like fire Star was an APPRENTICE and she had been a med cat for a while so like we might be talking 10 years old and 20 years old. Like???

[@nancy6063]

YES YES YEEEES!!! SO EXCITED!

[@toothlesshat7581]

Spottedleaf and Firestar, then Firepaw, made me SO uncomfortable. To our knowledge, Firepaw is like a 14yr old kid right? And Spottedleaf was a full grown woman having feelings for this kid and I was just... ugh I really hated it.

[@tailfeatherrs5886]

every time Firestar popped up on the screen, I was like "Why does he have 2 sets of eyebrows" lol

[@dragonsbanecannibal9378]

Maple Is A Tortie, So Close

[@zephyrash]

Is she ever described as a tortie, or is that just how you think she looks?

[@zephyrash]

In Mapleshade's Vengeance, she's described as a "Thick-furred orange-and-white she-cat with amber eyes."

[@dragonsbanecannibal9378]

@@zephyrash Yes, The Wiki States That She Is "A Tortoiseshell And White Or Orange And White She Cat"

[@zephyrash]

@@dragonsbanecannibal9378 But the wiki isn't always right. Is there a certain book where she is described as a tortie?

[@dragonsbanecannibal9378]

@@zephyrash Yes, Goosefeather's Curse,Crookedstar's Promise,Spottedleaf's Heart,Tigerclaw's Fury, And The Last Hope The Other Books Have The "Alt" Description

[@lunerwerewolf]

I was actually in high-school when this book came out and I read it because I was board and it was available. But I never read firepaw and Spottedleaf 's relationship as anything more the firepower who i read as being the equivalent of like 12 as having a crush on a cute young adult who was kind to him while he was being bullied by almost everyone in his life. Also in my culture its normal for souls of family, friends and those with a lesson to teach to do so in dreams, so her showing up to guild him in dreams made perfect sense to me. It wasn't until a later arch when things changed to Spottedleaf returned firepower crush that i was like WTF? he was an actual child when you were alive creepy cat.

[@lunerwerewolf]

Also damn autocorrect for continuing to change paw to power

[@juliasawska1243]

I accually like this ship a lot, despite all the flaws and lack of build-up, mainly because it's fun to imagine those little nuance that make this relationship interesting. And I totally agree that it would be so great to se spotty and fire talking out their problems. I kinda have a theory, if spottedleaf was accually reincarnated after her second death maybe she could get another chance for a better life like cinderpelt. She then could either forget about firestar or be guided by him in the same way she guided him in his dreams and figure out her life issues or somethin' I guess it's fun to fantasize about spottedleaf from time to time :DDD

[@shadownightguard]

Me casually saying Spottedleaf is my favorite cat.

[@clouddii9575]

Wow- I find this just after my crush asked me out-

[@venusserina]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a thing about cats being mad that Spottedleaf couldn’t have a mate due to being a medicine cat-

[@vaellyxv]

I litterally read the Spottedleafs thing rn whatever it called but she acted like a Yandere saying he will never be mine or something like that

[@josephida8390]

Honestly this could all be solved with just one honest conversation. It's something the Erin's completely ignore sadly. I just saw Spottedleaf as some form of motivation for Firepaw/heart to keep going as well as overcome obstacles but not as a romantic interest. Even if you end up dying you shouldn't really go around stalking him like that. That's just wrong. Also speaking of which. How was Valentines day for everyone and what Warriors pairings you ship? (Canon or not) I choose Cherryfall and Alderheart for what I listed above. Reply on who you ship and why. Also again, nice job getting that microphone stand. it would mean a lot to you and I like it seeing how far you got. You honestly deserve a sub from me.

[@gingahearts12]

Boy do I love watching this video and at 3:14 I see my art of Lionblaze being used on that website talking about marry sues im cackling

[@robertkoeller7561]

I’ve never understood Fire x Spotted I mean, a child loves a full grown medicine cat

[@strvren129]

I knew there was going to be some spoilers along the way BUT MAPLE SHAED KILL WHO NOW? 10:45 NOOO what a dread 😔😔😔

[@winsorsl]

I have this head canon that Spotted'leaf was creepy because of that Thistle'claw thing....and only knew how to love like he did, just not as bad. (An idea I've had for a while)

[@mewomewmew]

to me stpotted already was a bit creepy. They kinda became romantic when firestar was a young apprentice and spottedleaf was a young warrior, so it kinda already was imo

[@xyzhrks]

*Excited Noises*

[@feathertailfanspoofs]

I think another mary sue cat is Sparkpelt my loathed she gets everything she wants and has no flaws until skyclan comes to the lake and her character does a complete 180 and becomes a blue-haired femenist

[@eternalreality3260]

Wait. What the fuck? This ship is a thing? Damn. I’ve been away from this community too long. I really need to get back at reading the books.

[@BobaTeaandWobblyKnees]

Am I the only person who thinks there should be Warriors Funko Pop figures, and Spottedleaf's should be strawberry scented?

[@JeromeSankara]

"Hey, do you want to smell my fur?" -Spottedleaf -later- "You smell pretty c:" -Leafpool

[@froggyfields]

It may be cruel to have to choose a mate in Starclan, but you still can’t have both no matter how sad it is :/

[@MAndSquared]

Why not both? Cats irl aren’t monogamous, and neither is every human. As long as everyone involved is on board with it then it shouldn’t matter

[@testerwulf3357]

@@MAndSquared But what happens if one refuses to share you? That’s the problem.

[@catnipcrash]

This is really cool interpretation!

[@lilaniloxi]

*Ah yes, the amazing Perfume cat*

[@laurendavey7274]

*another* *reson* *to* *like* *mapleshade*

[@alexismyers6053]

I think the reason Firestar and Spottedleaf are so Mary Sue in the first and second arcs if because of WHO tells the story: Firestar, Brambleclaw/star, and Firestar's daughters. Firestar wouldn't really see any of his own flaws or the flaws of his crush. His daughters seemed close to him, so they wouldn't be able to spot any flaws that aren't completely in your face and while Squirrelflight did know Spottedleaf personally, Leafpool had grown up on her Clan's stories of how amazing and kind and flawless Spottedleaf was, so she wouldn't have thought of her any other way. Like Squirrelflight, Brambleclaw/paw didn't KNOW Spottedleaf beyond the stories of her, but he DID know Firestar the cat that was like a father to him. Firestar overcame his prejudice of Bramblepaw and was one of the first of his Clan (outside of Goldenflower) to accept him as he himself and not as the son of his father. He mentored him and was the father figure he felt he needed in a time when he really needed it. Firestar showed him how to be a good and noble warrior and how step out of his father's shadow, so of course Brambleclaw/star would see no wrong in him, even when Firestar was told of the "Fire and Tiger saving the forest" sign, misread it, and began to revert back to his old mindset that Brambleclaw must be evil because of his blood. But he didn't have much more of a relationship with Jay, Lion, Holly, and Dove outside of Leader and kits/apprentices/warriors and medicine cat. So they were able to see the flaws the others couldn't. For example, all Lionpaw saw was his grandfather making his "mother's" vengeful ex his mentor and not the maybe Firestar didn't know of the history between Ashfur and Squirrelflight (as far as I know, only Bramble, Squirrel and Leaf knew that) or that he knew Lionpaw was special in the prophecy and wanted him to have the best training possible. Hollypaw/leaf just wanted to be a good warrior who followed the code fo the letter, so she would have seen the flaws, but not said anything much because the word of the Clan leader is the warrior code. Dovepaw/wing was all caught up in her own problems so even though she saw Firestar's, she didn't much care unless it directed affected her or the cats she cared most about. As a medicine cat, Jaypaw/feather had more interactions with him then the rest and we all know how our beloved badger-in-a-cat's-body is, so he was right there to call Firestar out as much as possible.

[@paanicart]

When I read the series, I never thought they were romantic, lmao. Only when they kept adding it, did I notice.

[@RoxyTBDW]

I didn't even know they were in love until I saw people ship them 😭

[@FlowerGriffon]

I remember when I first read warriors, Spottedleaf was my favourite character. I’m so sorry for my sins

[@tianarhastings8372]

To be honest... I didn’t realize that spottedleaf died 😅😅😅

[@buh...]

Yo Quiet Rage really said poly rights thanks 🥺

[@_lost_3300]

Tbh i always thjught of spottedleaf as some older woman. Like in her late 30s? I never liked her purely because of how creepy some of the scenes with her were.

[@gayghst2877]

She's definitely older (around 5 years old, if I'm sure)