Frances Widdowson on the Questions Canadians Aren’t Supposed to Ask About Unmarked Graves

[@Quillette]

Hi all, I hope you enjoy the podcast. It was first aired on 13 April 2022, please keep that in mind as you're listening. Thanks, Zoe (Community Manager) quillette.com/2022/04/13/frances-widdowson-on-the-questions-canadians-arent-supposed-to-ask-about-unmarked-graves/

[@dt6822]

How about you let your guests speak for a change instead of constantly interrupting and soliloquying

[@kennorthunder2428]

Yeah, the one that came across my feed on 2024.12.15 I had cause to be suspicious merely because of the fact that in the middle of lockdown this information was revealed to the public in the grand display - when LIDAR operators "should" have been in isolation. So it was serving as a distraction to the fear-scam. Then a photo op of un-masked Trudeau with a teddy bear, and officials at various times with or without masks. Shamdelic

[@kirstinmorrell]

​@@dt6822I think it's just to be expected for all female guests on any podcast to be interrupted. Doesn't matter if it's the political right or the political left or somewhere in between, men are always trying to take up all the time/space/air in the room. I think he was better than most at listening, in fact.

[@jimmyzhao2673]

What always gets me is the term 'Knowledge Keeper', as if these people are some kind of oracle and they dare not be questioned.

[@MrSWGrant]

Knowledge keeper, not knowledge giver.

[@_s.4785]

What a smarmy and useless reply

[@Stonehorn]

If you aren’t allowed to ask the question, it’s exactly the question you should be asking

[@detch01]

Unmarked graves? As I understand it, if there's no body to be found it is not a grave. This whole thing is a scam.

[@lucascoval828]

Standard practice by grifting aboriginal chiefs.

[@jeanmarcforcier383]

If you find a crime that's covered by dirt, you dig it to prove your facts; if you don't, it's a scam.

[@MythsScamsLies]

Unless it is someone's grave. How is being a hate-filled racist working out for you? Is it everything you hoped it would be?

[@sorinankitt]

​@@MythsScamsLies 🤔 What part of the reply is hate-filled? None of it. Your response exemplifies a troubling pattern seen all too often: the moment someone asks a valid question about indigenous matters-or any sensitive topic-they are immediately labeled with hateful, discriminatory, or even criminal terms. Instead of addressing the actual question or discussing the facts, you resort to straw man arguments and personal insults. How does that contribute to uncovering the truth or solving the issue at hand? Imagine someone asking for directions to a theater, and instead of giving an answer, you call them names for not knowing. If you don’t know the answer, the proper response is to admit it or commit to finding the truth together. The same principle applies here: if we don’t know whether there are bodies in mass graves, the rational course is to investigate, gather evidence, and arrive at the truth-not deflect with baseless accusations and rhetoric. Your tactic of demonizing those who dare to ask questions only stifles critical thinking and meaningful discussion. If crimes were committed, wouldn’t it be far more respectful to exhume the graves, prove their existence, and determine the truth behind the deaths-especially when no reliable records exist? Ignoring this inquiry would not only deny justice but deeply insult the memory of those who may have died unjustly. Investigation is the only way to ensure that the victims receive justice and their stories are told. Facts and truth should guide us-not fear of asking hard questions or using insults to silence them. We all deserve answers, and if they are not readily available, the right thing to do is to seek the truth together. Anything less is a disservice to both the living and the dead.

[@lucascoval828]

​@@MythsScamsLies You failed.

[@afterthesmash]

Cultural genocide is not a crime that leaves bodies behind. We don't actually have any specific alleged crimes likely to have left a body behind to justify digging for forensic purposes. At best we have a broad slate of presumptively alleged crimes that likely happened fairly often (child mistreatment in a large, institutional setting). Which gravitational anomalies should we exhume first, proving what, exactly? It doesn't exactly take Sherlock Holmes to find bodies in a known graveyard. The original news coverage, tilted to portraying every gravitational anomaly as a body, every body as a child's body, every child's body as an unnatural death, every unnatural death as a deliberate cog in nationwide systemic oppression, that whole chain left a lot to be desired.

[@afterthesmash]

@@MythsScamsLies Now that shitbots are everywhere, you need to up your game, because this kind of thing is owned by the shitbots now, and resistance is futile from among the ranks of traditional copypasta griefer trolls. A dumb construction of digging for truth doesn't make for a hate crime.

[@johncanada246]

This suppression of discussion should have a federal inquiry. Particular attention to those people trying to end the opportunity of discussion. Trudeau and Universities professors really showed how ignorant and harmful they are.

[@citytrees1752]

An arbitrator ruled Widdowson's termination as wrongful and recommended that she be financially compensated.

[@patkaupp2161]

To claim “brutal treatment “ with no evidence is slander.

[@johnbolt665]

So they upended Pictons farm, but a place that supposedly has hundreds buried will never see a spoonful of dirt looked at, anyone care to know why?

[@Thalanox]

I suspect we all know why. I probably can't speak the reason without this comment going down the memory hole, but suffice it to say, it's not because honest people want the public to know the truth.

[@Codyray17ify]

There's no money in it for them, if someone proves is not true....

[@ryanmacarthur1299]

Because of the people buried there have ties to being ended by elites and powerful people across Canada and the US.

[@janbastein7355]

You nailed it!

[@MythsScamsLies]

@@johnbolt665 How's stupid working out for you? The two situations are utterly different. Utterly uncomparable.

[@gaylethorn7692]

They bring these complaints to do 2 things. 1. Pretend it was a genocide. 2. Cash in. Our law firm had many clients under the TRC and we couldn't believe the BS that was being alleged. It was so over the top and it would never pass in a court of law. No facts involved at all and yet, they seemed to completely evade that issue and took out as fact. Disgraceful.

[@nicolamustard7232]

Please tell us more. I'm genuinely interested!

[@seanmellows1348]

A very important discussion to keep alive. Widdowson is level headed, sincere, and respectful; it’s a disgrace the way she has been treated and portrayed. I feel certain history will eventually vindicate her position.

[@dawnemile7499]

Even when the anthropologist reduced the number of unmarked graves in Kamloops Residential school grounds, mainstream media refused to change the number. I was called a "racist" because I told someone what I had read in the Globe and Mail about the reduction in number of alleged unmarked Graves.

[@pahashnafilmgroup7563]

So not as many kids were killed?

[@pahashnafilmgroup7563]

@@Jfre2 ahh it seems that you don’t believe the people that were actually there. Is that right?

[@pahashnafilmgroup7563]

@@Jfre2 Saskatchewan Star Blanket Cree Nation found a human Jaw bone 125 years old approx. That’s confirmed and that’s enough.

[@pahashnafilmgroup7563]

@@Jfre2 Actually it was nowhere near a known grave site. I’d say think on that. But you probably wont.

[@pahashnafilmgroup7563]

@@Jfre2 Those children were murdered. And the killers got away with it.

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

And here in 2024 STILL no excavations. Wonder why? What re the incentives to NOT excavate?

[@Individual_Lives_Matter]

Right? They had plenty of incentive to excavate, if they truly believed they would find something.

[@nicolamustard7232]

They were given millions to excavate and look into this. Where's the money??

[@ninjawizard3865]

The damage has already been done....that's all that matters to them...

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

@ understood. I expect with enough public pressure they will be compelled to dig at some point.

[@davecody5997]

Shes a hero!!!!

[@SandraSchemmer]

For a long time, I have been upset by the focus on ONLY ONE THREAD of the residential schools. There are many. My grandparents, the most loving people I’ve ever known, worked at the Round Lake Residential School in Sask. during the 1930’s. I have many photographs, letters and newspaper clippings from that time. My grandmother had a girls’ choir that won first prize in the provincial choral competition. They sang in English, French and their native tongue. The principal allowed children to return to their tribe for special events with the promise to return. One of the first native nurses had her start at that school, something that greatly pleased my grandmother. We must not be silent about inquiring further into these supposed graves. I do believe there were many actual incidents of abuse, there is no denying that. And the original policy was misguided in the extreme forcing children away from their homes, there is no denying that. But if there is to be true reconciliation, the whole story should be told. Many people are beginning to feel that we are being blackmailed..

[@joanr3189]

We self-silence, speaking only after first making sure that it is safe. 🇨🇦

[@Stonehorn]

Maybe you do, I sure as hell don’t

[@pendorran]

The amount of ass-covering the host does in this interview is annoying. Every two minutes with "There probably are some murder victims" etc. You don't know that, first of all, and one statement of empathy is sufficient. Meanwhile after 17 minutes you've barely gotten to the meat of the conversation.

[@kirstinmorrell]

No, I think it was necessary. It's necessary to treat this subject with respect and the understanding that we do not know any of the answers yet. Jumping to conclusions is what caused a problem in the first place.

[@dawnemile7499]

The religious fervor is maddening.

[@basketthound2133]

Sad thing is they had to use these so called "Knowledge keepers", because they didn`t have a writing system. The Quebec Sisters made them writing systems for the different tribes. Start a sentence, "He kicked the can" See what happens to it after 100 people have said it. Before anyone comments; I have natives in my family!

[@frakismaximus3052]

Well said. Writing systems eventually allowed for different viewpoints and dissenting opinions. While oral tradition is better than nothing, it has very serious limitations. It most often doesn't allow for a lot of detail, and most importantly, it merely reflects a consensus, either of the general group or only that of the knowledge keepers themselves.

[@mikestephenson647]

I think its disgusting that the woke can call this speaker a rascist and would not let her speak at the U of L. Asking important questions is not rascist. Truth is subjective.

[@mikestephenson647]

@@Glacialspring I think your very wrong on that. Freedom of speech is everyones fundamental right. I guess you havent noticed how free speech isnt so free anymore. Bill C16 is a prime example. Yes who is prime minister has a very drastic effect on your life. What Trudeau has done to our nation, our generation, and my kids generation will be paying for it. The fluidity for what is considered socially exceptable is deeply troubling.

[@peterburgess9592]

Its okay MIke we all think you're disgusting too.

[@janicehoward5915]

I think Widdowson would argue the truth is not subjective. Rather the woke mob is using subjective "knowing". I'm not sure she is arguing any absolute, exactly. But, she is certainly advocating in support of objective evidence. Objective evidence is verifiable (or not) and might be revised on the basis of other objective evidence. However, subjective evidence, although not invalid, cannot stand alone. This "knowing" that there are murdered children's remains there is subjective evidence. It doesn't mean it's wrong, but it does need to be supported, and so far it is not. It continues to flourish in the realm of urban legend. If it is to be anything other than that, it requires objective evidence to support the stories.

[@brentwalker8596]

"Truth is subjective"? You might need to expound upon that statement.

[@dennislaughton1676]

I have been through many old cemeteries in search of family information. It is not unusual to find families with children who died young. We did not have vaccines and medications nor even the dietary knowledge for healthy eating. I had in my family a Mrs. T. Laughton who gave birth to 9 children, 7 died before the age of 2. One of the boys lived to adulthood and was my G.G.G. grandfather. These early deaths, in my opinion were not unique to indigenous schools. I have used ground penetrating radar in agricultural settings and fully understand its limitations.

[@sorinankitt]

👍 Spot on. The video perfectly encapsulates the core issue: too often, any attempt to ask thoughtful, valid questions about indigenous matters is immediately met with hostility, accusations, and labels like “racist” or “hate-filled.” This reaction isn’t about seeking truth or justice-it’s about silencing discussion, shutting down inquiry, and intimidating others from even engaging in the conversation. This knee-jerk hostility demonstrates an alarming lack of willingness to confront the unknown. Instead of critically examining claims, verifying facts, or openly discussing evidence, many choose to shield themselves with emotional outrage and accusations. It’s easier to condemn the questioner than to confront the possibility that answers might challenge a preferred narrative. Truth doesn’t fear questions-it demands them. Asking why no graves have been exhumed or why evidence hasn’t been publicly verified isn’t denial or disrespect. It’s a call for justice, accountability, and clarity. If the goal is to honor those who may have died unjustly, shouldn’t we insist on finding concrete answers? The refusal to engage meaningfully, combined with the weaponization of insults, creates a toxic environment. It discourages the very investigations that could validate claims and provide justice where it’s due. As the video suggests, this attitude isn’t about finding solutions; it’s about preserving a narrative, even at the cost of truth. If we can’t ask questions, we can’t find answers. And without answers, there is no path forward. Respect and justice come from evidence, transparency, and honesty-not from silencing dissent or hurling insults. That’s the real takeaway from this video, and it couldn’t be more relevant today.

[@joanr3189]

Widdowson is the sacrificial lamb for the zealots in our midst. The zealot is not interested in the actual, story which is not as interesting as the myth that sustains our indignation.

[@johnmurray3888]

The Quillette podcast needs an update in the light of the move to discredit and oust the Quesnel Mayor, Ron Paull.because his wife was distributing copies of the book "Grave Error".

[@jordanthoms887]

No! Not Ron, he was incredible Used to see him at the pool alot Everyone love him in town Sad to hear

[@pjminderhoud4405]

Critical thinking and critical questions? How dare you? That may have been acceptable in Canada 🇨🇦 in the past but a new day has dawned. Truth and Reconciliation needs to include… the 1st part right?

[@rhetorical1488]

truth is out the window when the agenda is to run a narrative to fleece some sheep

[@cbryanto]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan. I am deeply concerned of the motives of those so desirous of such heinous speculation.

[@haidner]

As this interview was done in April 2022, it would be interesting to hear an update on what it covers. Has there been any further investigations done, for example?

[@just_another32]

totally

[@mowich7]

Short answer, no.

[@PeterMilster]

Another project by Trudeau to divide people over more lies, all he will be remembered for is Scams . The people involved in this scam should be charged for racism and hate, where is the actual proof other than we say so.

[@frakismaximus3052]

If you're not in Canada, 1 indigenous group in Saskatchewan did do some digging and found nothing. As of December 2024, not one set of bones has been produced to support this crazy "mass graves" hypothesis.

[@haidner]

@@frakismaximus3052 Yeah, I heard that since I asked. Thanks! I do note how this myth is still accepted as truth by most of the public, and that the mainstream media has not made much, if anything, of the fact that there's zero evidence of this investigation, for some reason. 🤔

[@maryanndeweerd2570]

Thankyou

[@mathewwelsh9129]

Jonathan Kay is an excellent interviewer. Very good at context and clarification and putting things in perspective

[@BJ-nw6ow]

I wonder how much taxpayer money has been spent on this for the last 3 or 4 years.

[@mowich7]

The Federal government gave the Kamloops band $8,000,000.00 and not a single shovel has been put in the ground.

[@BJ-nw6ow]

@@mowich7 The scam seems to be working

[@rodweinmeyer1435]

Instead of allegations and accusations, have them open the ground up, and we will deal with the results like adults.

[@glennanderson8981]

Extraordinary claims require Extraordinary evidence. There is no evidence here. I DO NOT accept this assertion without evidence. The burden of proof is on the 'knowledge keepers'.

[@pseudonamed]

It's a shame that it had to get exaggerated, because that distracts from what actually happened. The truth is that indigenous children died at these schools died at higher rates than white children at the same time.. but that does not mean they were outright murdered. They were neglected more, put under unhealthy conditions, sick children were not quarantined from healthy children, etc. It is definitely a tragedy but there is no need to lie and claim children were murdered.

[@62426637]

Exactly. The truth was bad enough. I still think that there may well have been 10-20 bodies there, but admit that none are proven.

[@MrDryqula]

In most cases, they were neglected less at the schools than they were at home.

[@pseudonamed]

@@MrDryqula You got evidence for that statement?

[@MrDryqula]

@@pseudonamed Yep, they keep trying to silence the people who tell their stories when they don't fit the narrative, but there are many who have testified to this. If you haven't heard their stories, it's because you aren't listening. And you're likely not listening, because you need those children to have been abused and murdered so that you can profit from it.

[@lorellgingrich6603]

@@pseudonamed TB , which originates from deer, elk and other ruminants, and alcoholism was rampant in reserves and when parents died and children were orphaned, often relatives could not or would not take those kids in so the residential schools took them in where they were fed, clothed and housed and educated. Just as "Roots" ignited a firestorm, so did "Indian Horse". I'm not denying that some schools saw abuses, but not all. Many Indigenous people probably most, had great experiences at these school while another percentage had bad experiences. That could be said about white schools too, Kids have been abuse there too.

[@ron0598]

Nothing but a red herring

[@DavidDeshane-ic4cg]

It's all a shame.

[@t.o.o.smooth5870]

The last few years have taught us to pay attention to those they seek to cancel.

[@Muljinn]

Glad to see you changed your mind about the entire “atrocities committed at residential schools”. So many, many *lies* from the race grifters.

[@yvonnekonig8136]

Oh Jonathan, you’re such an indigenous-victim apologist. You excuse bands claiming “potential graves” as having validity, even though not 1 piece of evidence has been unearthed anywhere. Perhaps they see the how victimhood provides social and monetary reward? You might be part of the problem by not expecting them to uphold the same rigorous support for justice and evidence the rest of Canadians are expected to uphold.

[@wapbopaloubopramalamadingdong]

i worked as a dead body man and did some time in the graveyard. if you don't mark graves and its your favorite spot you're going to hit bodies digging holes or bury them on top of each other. if none of em were disturbed i'd doubt they were put there in haste and were likely marked at one time. ya don't dig holes with people watching thats why they used to dig 'em at night. there's always a possibility of something fishy going on. there is the odd guy under the wrong marker. i'm going with cremation cause at least i'm not goona be alone in my box. call a few graveyard guys.

[@rhetorical1488]

the British nautical academy has a large field with thousands of sailors buried in it without a single marker. these were well respected people who got to live out their lives pensioned at the base. wood degrades and stone markers were for the wealthy. Now imagine a tiny cemetery in the middle of nowhere Canada.

[@dawnemile7499]

The fact that there are only 53 likes is quite telling. I researched the issue.

[@Cheryl-p7o]

I heard a tiny bit about it long ago this the first I've heard of it in long time. Our media conceals as does utube also is biased.

[@Awakenotwoke-z1g]

What unmarked graves?

[@gfutube1]

Assume the graves contain children remains. So what. Many children could have died from numerous causes such as tuberculosis and other illnesses. They would have needed to be buried somewhere.

[@nicolamustard7232]

Teachers and staff who died of various diseases and malnutrition were also buried.

[@paulhwbooth]

Canadians gone bonkers?

[@sylviasmother7124]

Quite some time ago, in fact.

[@jimmyzhao2673]

for 9 years, ever since Trudeau was elected Prime Minister.

[@dawnemile7499]

What do people on reservations do for work?

[@pahashnafilmgroup7563]

Lots of things actually.

[@billblendick9780]

Nothing. That is why they need a. “Cash cow” !

[@allytrudie864]

Not fixing their issues with all the casino money gifted to only them.

[@billblendick9780]

@@pahashnafilmgroup7563. Like what ? All I see is a lot of loafing around ! Kids are dead-end ! Parent are drunk !

[@rhetorical1488]

reproduce for that sweet sweet government dime

[@kevinoneill41]

Right. People died. Who are they. That is the question

[@marcgordon6381]

i have listened to many interviews with and presentations by Frances widdowson. This one involves the interviewer interrupting Ms. Widdowson. So it was more her adding a few corroborating words to his point of view.

[@dumbdumber1885]

Yeah he's got a long way to go to be half as good as a cbc reporter huh?

[@amesorton]

If you don't know and have no evidence you don't make the claim. The story should have been "we have these ground anomalies that we are investigating". What are the odds it is a graveyard? Over the years, any town, settlement, often hospitals or churchs had graveyards. People die from time to time for all kinds of reasons. My high school in the 70's had a couple people die every year. Sickness, accident etc.

[@pendorran]

Stop interrupting your guest every 90 seconds, FFS.

[@dawnemile7499]

Guess what? You didn't do research. Indigenous parents had to sign consent to have their children go to residential schools. Many of the schools were located close to reservations and the children often skipped school and went home. If all these things were true it would have been exposed years ago. It has been researched over and over again.

[@pahashnafilmgroup7563]

What's the research? I'd like to know.

[@mowich7]

In addition, many of the schools were administered by indigenous people who taught and were councilors at them. Plus, it was the natives themselves who approached the government of the day on the necessity for the schools.

[@Muljinn]

Providing the schools (on request) was actually a treaty obligation.

[@heinzriemann3213]

Inerupt less please. Some of this was hard to consume.

[@janicehoward5915]

I agree. The interruptions were not cool.

[@janicehoward5915]

I suppose that he is honest in disclosing, but the podcaster's opinion that "it is entirely possible" that there are likely is at least some murdered children secreted in graves (and some of his other editorial comments) suggest that he would benefit from a broader reading of the evidence and discussions. "From Truth Comes Reconciliation: An Assessment of the TRC Committee Report".

[@The88Cheat]

I've only just learned about this issue. What is the evidence currently?

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

@@The88Cheat None. No physical action taken. Yet more radar returns from a few other places have been publicized. Yet no digging anywhere. Pretty interesting, right?

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

Excuse me? It is possible, and if you are so convinced all these graves are actual graves, then please lead the charge to have them exhumed......waiting.....waiting. Curious how no one actually want to dig.

[@The88Cheat]

@@stevenlightfoot6479 Yeah, I just learned that yesterday. I think it's pretty irresponsible of journalists to perpetuate that "mass grave" and "genocide" narratives despite the lack of hard evidence and call people that point that out "genocide deniers." Ugh.

[@stevenlightfoot6479]

@@The88Cheat Yes, it is irresponsible, and that is one of the reasons why in Canada especially fewer and fewer people trust or listen to MSM and especially the CBC. On the other hand journo Terry Glavin covered it really well.

[@nilsbrown7996]

The secret is out, though one known by the locals for sure; Canada is, (has always been) mostly held to account, and very often led by hard nosed, extremely logical (post) menopausal, erstwhile Protestant, though not practicing, women. We know them in every community and they talk exactly like this, and we love ‘em!

[@glennanderson8981]

Jonathan, I can tell you still are afraid to call out this b.s. be more like your mom, be more skeptical, you are a journalist.

[@Ashakat42]

Dude i didn't click in this to hear you speak. Its an interview not a monolog.

[@JohngleNYM-sk2hu]

In regards to the 215 soil disturbances discovered by ground penetrating radar, Kamloops BC 2021 and the surprising halt in follow-up investigation. Much speculation has emerged, and arguments between speculators form nothing self-evident, crystalizing entrenchment in beliefs, to wit: enemizing of the opposed, and cultivation of groups so as to subvert & outnumber "the opposed" by metademographic assignment in the same vein as "the unvaccinated", lately. Partial participant parties propagate narratives such that policy legislates these arguments as precedent - post hoc ergo propter hoc. Why? Dividends. Gossip inflates an opportunistic resource for exploiting emotionally reactive attention to the novelty of 'news, the'. So the respectful, truthful reconcilable responsibility of the individual, as I see it lately, is to offer a better quality of speculation in the pursuit of confirming or deferring it as any hypothesis that, uninvestigated, does no harm. Thus, suppose the following: It was the practice of the residential school authorities to plant apple trees to mark and protect the final resting place of those in their custody, but not of their religion. It follows that the policy would be to not eat, to never eat, the apples from the trees in this garden. That would be the sort of solution that would be sustainable in an agricult, multicult, horticult or religious cult in practice. Unlike cults lately, the structure of farming and self-governance was not competetive with that of hunting and fishing peoples. Canada's first nations were hunters, fishers, gatherers and travellers. The colonists were settlers as evidenced that there were no existing agro-developments or permanent structures that they could conquer and steal. No apple orchards and no fertilizer, and Kamloops in a desert with all of the desertification typical of the BC interior cutbanks since the ice age. I think that an analysis of the trees, even those whose root systems and stumps remain, would be a data set that, compared to trees grown in captivity or farmed from undisturbed soil, the rings and metabolic systems would be testable for DNA or other chemical signatures in well known timelines of human remains in various states of decomposition. Trees of life, and fruits of the knwledge of good and evil indeed. "Unmarked graves?" Exactly not so. An apple for the teacher? Whatever you feel about that, lately. Or now. Else is worse. //jm 2024-12-14 2008hrs pacific P.S. I think they should roll together the CBC in Canada Post and form a national newspaper. You?

[@janbastein7355]

So you are a member of the Catholic Church?

[@Individual_Lives_Matter]

Irrelevant

[@janbastein7355]

@ very relevant!

[@nicolamustard7232]

What an ignorant, stupid thing to say....

[@davecammidge]

Digem up