Quinns Quest Reviews: Want a new TTRPG? Get In These Mechs

[@Dimplepig]

you can't do this to me quinn, wildsea just arrived in the mail

[@this_alec]

Same 😭😂

[@billyrigby4839]

I got mine on Thursday lol 😂

[@juauke]

And so it begins...

[@ccm4100]

I was waiting till my paycheck tomorrow, guess I gotta get two games now...

[@tosteson1]

Same. And the expansion.

[@rashkavar]

The ancient laptop bit was amazing!

[@claycapra9860]

as a medieval historian, i have to make a stupid and pedantic point. medieval knights Did go through the pockets of people weaker than them after killing them, you can see normans stripping the corpses of dead saxons in the bayeux tapestry! they're pulling off the chainmail to sell because the stuff was so expensive that you'd have been an idiot not to. unfortunately dnd characters' murderhobo tendencies are more accurate to the predilections of the medieval military aristocracy than we'd like to believe

[@Quinns_Quest]

Oh man 😮 That's not pedantic, that's thought-provoking. Thanks for sharing!

[@claycapra9860]

@@Quinns_Quest of course! in a lot of ways dnd can't decide if its setting is a medieval feudal one or an early modern colonial one, but, yet again perhaps unfortunately, it gets the impetus for looting right in both contexts.

[@Heamoanne]

And you can go even further back if you want: In the Iliad you have scenes of aristocratic warriors taking the panoply of their dead enemies as loot. After Patroclus' death, the fighting devolves into a frenzied melee to strip his still warm body of Achilles' armour. It's a really interesting (and nasty) aspect of ancient and medieval warfare that is not very widely known.

[@claycapra9860]

@@HeamoanneYeah, this is actually why I've always liked OSR/old D&D styles of games were loot and xp are directly related. stealing stuff off the dead is one of the primary methods by which a premodern warrior would increase their status

[@drillerdev4624]

​@@claycapra9860 and let's not forget a lovely tradition of christianity that didn't transfer much to rpgs, of making a great funeral for a holy person, with a resting place reserved in the cathedral or whatnot, and then wait a few years before you start hacking the corpse away to make magic items, for protection or negotiation. Sure, you can take a scale, claw, or whatever from some mythical beast, but imagine if, once you've finally defeated that paladin overlord, your cleric starts ripping his fingerbones off to make talismans for the whole party, a femur for your patron, and his prick to trade for safe passage through the eastern crags.

[@svenabel2987]

Bro really has the only computer in existence immune to Ra's influence

[@dreamcatcherben8214]

Not because he can't, he just won't. Its a matter of principle.

[@OriginalKasym]

HORUS demands to know his location

[@AlfontsIV]

You kidding me?! I'm an anthropologist who studies bureaucracy. Those org charts got me salivating!

[@Mubgoo]

Hey, sorry for that out of the blue question. Is there something in your fields that posits that late capitalism displays the same tendencies towards absurd bureaucracy as stalinist USSR ?

[@AlfontsIV]

​@@MubgooDepends. A lot of people argue it's about neoliberlism creating "audit cultures", but I think Andy Kipnis does a really good job of pointing out that many/most Chinese point to their own socialist history as the origin of their own extreme bureaucracy (as well as having some of the oldest government bureaucracies in the world). His argument is that therefore modern bureaucracy and "audit cultures" can't be exclusively neoliberal. Instead, he posits that "audit cultures" more relates to modern technologies of governance broadly, as well as the relative complexity of modern societies and extreme division of labour. Basically, both capitalist and socialist societies have largely ended up in the same space with regards to bureaucracy because even if they're different forms of government, they're both ultimately about about managing unimaginably massive, modern populations of people working niche jobs, utilising the same technologies (including both IT and forms of organisation). Does that make sense? Also, I'd recommend giving the article a read. It's open-access: openresearch-repository.anu.edu.au/bitstream/1885/38042/2/01_Kipnis_Audit_Cultures:_Neoliberal_2008.pdf

[@thelongcorgi]

I fully understand how the way the lore is presented, and what lore they actually tell you, really really doesn't work for a lot of people. But for ME? Having all of this information that I can drink deep and descend into? Its amazing. I understand the world to a degree that allows me to create my own worlds and factions and systems that fit into that lore. I EITHER want to be given the bare minimum of rails and create everything from the ground up, OR I want to have a rich, deep world, that I can immerse myself in and create my own stories without having to come up with the details that make the world feel real.

[@IoFoxdale]

The lore is a really interesting militarist star trek fiction that talks about the balance between respecting people vs 'uplifting' them to a better society. It's just, really bad lore for a game about robots shooting eachother.

[@INTCUWUSIUA]

@@IoFoxdale No it's fantastic lore for a game of robots shooting each other if you approach all your conflicts from a materialist perspective. The complex sociopolitical issues that lead to tanks shooting at each other in real life are the same ones that would lead to mechs shooting at each other in the sci-fi future. What lancer lacks is good ways of creating easy heroic narratives around mechs, but while some more of that would be nice, especially for people who don't want to get balls deep in realpolitik, I feel it's in large part a case of mismatched genre expectations.

[@MrUnimport]

I find it difficult to relate modern real-life sociopolitical issues to Lancer's post-scarcity setting, which has been a modest sticking point for me so far for getting into it.

[@IoFoxdale]

@@INTCUWUSIUA Yes, I think making a cool Star Trek style setting and then making your main mechanics about doing violence is a mismatch of genre.

[@INTCUWUSIUA]

@@IoFoxdale It's not really Star Trek though, it's Gundam (Mostly UC and the later Tomino stuff), Xabungle, Dougram, and King Gainer. All these themes of colonialism, and imperialism Vs. non-interventionism, are also present and major factors in a ton of mecha classics. If you know them and are familiar with them then it becomes very obvious what to do with Lancer's setting, but if you aren't that familiar with these series, then I can see how it wouldn't click, and that's the expectation mismatch I'm talking about.

[@pretsal4955]

To those interested in LANCER but wary of the roleplaying deficiency, 2 points. 1. The KTB setting book also has player-facing rules that expand the scope of the narrative rules and introduce an element of progression for your pilot as a person as opposed to your pilot as a vessel for combat 2. The roleplay section of the rules is entirely disconnected from the combat rules, so you can drag and drop any system you like into the space outside of the mechs. This does make use of comp/con kinda difficult Additionally, I think LANCER (particularly with the bond rules) works really well as a TTRPG where you spend 2-4 sessions with no combat, getting into the weeds of the setting or the location or the lore or the story; and then 1-2 sessions featuring a difficult as balls combat as a sort of pressure release valve. Which very much does lend it to the long campaign as Quinns says. The constant rules questions from players do slow to an acceptable level of clarifications and strange interaction questions but I won't say it makes that transition quickly, as much as I love the game. I feel it inherits from D&D the legacy of DMs teaching their younger siblings how to play after much pestering, and that being how the essential rules spread from one group to another; a person transitioning from Player to GM to Keeper of the Rules. It's unfortunate that the flashpoints in the core book are so poorly explored, because they're all interesting but give you absolutely no idea how to run them as a game, and I hope they're explored in their own source books.

[@RWD130]

Totally agree, KTB Bonds are the juice holding my current campaign together. its so rare i run combat because it basically eats an entire session but i understand that the rules and progression are all tied to it so i dont want my players to feel like theyve spent time building a mech foir no reason its a balance i want to strike better

[@pretsal4955]

@@RWD130 It's something you have to fine-tune per party. I've run for people that get antsy after half a session of roleplay, I've run for people where I'm wondering if they remember we're not actually playing Blades in the Dark.

[@janacoppola6722]

Something my own GM did, after deciding that Lancer's "on-foot" rules were too open-ended (even after the introduction of the bond rules), was introduce a second system to our years-long campaign. So now we're also playing Outgunned!

[@jasharin]

re: point 2. imo you can really feel that with ICON (the next game by the lancer people), where they just copy/pasted blades in the dark

[@Thyrork]

I've been at GMing this for 3 years and this comment is *incredibly* helpful for people to read and process.

[@vitriolUK]

I love the commitment to the late 80s aesthetic

[@chastermief839]

the gag with the computer was so good lmao

[@IoFoxdale]

I appreciate the commitment to Frakesian style stuff where you just say "this is a show in the 90's where a handsome dude talks evocatively about things he loves,"

[@nopeitsnotmewhywouldyouaskthat]

It's a FACT.

[@robmildon8612]

I had become absorbed by Kill Six Billion Demons when Lancer came out and I vibed with it exactly the same way. There's just something about the stuff Tom makes that strikes an undefinable harmonic of delight and fascination in my brain. I drank deep and descended, and it was wonderful.

[@Yesnog05]

My brother introduced Lancer to me, my friend, my younger brother, and his wife to try out on our usual D&D game night. He made some homebrew rules and ideas from Cyberpunk Red and D&D 5e (specifically from the Ravnica Campaign) to add elements of role playing and simplifying combat. *And it turned out great!* I wanted to know more about the game and came across this vid and I can see why my brother made a lot of adjustments and homebrew rules and lore to make it more streamline. I definitely enjoyed the 80s aesthetics you put into this video!

[@grizogi]

Man I love this English gentleman putting out extremely well produced videos that retroactively affirm my good taste in RPG's that I have already bought and ran campaigns in, two in a row now!

[@estebanrodriguez5409]

The bit about LANCER's lore remind me about ProZD sketch on the difference between euro boardgames and american boardgames.

[@rkodins]

Love love love the video, my new favorite TTRPG review series covering my current obsession: big robots punching bigger, meaner robots? Pure gold. I did want to mention though that there is a way to use comp/con in the way you wanted for the "build 'em as you go" campaign! It's not super intuitive, but still possible if you want a centralized hub for your players to keep track of their characters & stuff. On the Pilot Roster in comp con there's the 'Special Equipment' tab where you as the DM can grant them basically anything acquired through Licenses without actual leveling them into those licenses, including Frame specific systems and weapons. So what you could've done (if you were running an online game like me and really wanted to use Comp/Con) is let the players make LL0 characters, and when they find mech bits you just throw that in their sheets as 'Special Equipment'. Then when they level up they can either follow the LL track like normal, or just 'skip' picking a license when using the Com/Con level up tool and just keep using the Everest base frame and grafting the 'Special Equipment' they find onto it. Comp/con is an amazing utility for Lancer and honestly makes running the game as a GM so much simpler, but you're right it does need some work in the homebrew department as the only way to make custom Frames or systems that I know of is to basically write your own .lcp file (like what you get with the Expansions) and import it. Not very intuitive when all I need to do is change a weapons range from 8 to 12

[@Quinns_Quest]

Ahhh I did the program dirty, good to know! Thank you!

[@Melancthon7332]

Have you perchance stumbled across Iron Edda in your obsession with mechs? Imagine an apocalyptic fantasy world, where brave humans pilot the enchanted skeletons of long dead giants against rampaging dwarven constructs! I believe the original version is FATE based, but there's a revamped version with an original system and a more cyberpunk/fantasy direction.

[@earthflame]

Fo rme, Lancer scratches a unique itch that can only really be satisfied by a chunky combat system. Where roleplay can enhance the combat, where you can make tactical decisions taking influence from your pilot's position in the world rather than just your own omniscient perspective. Making a decision to take a major risk in order to protect an ally, even if it's not an optimal choice, gives weight and meaning to that character. It's one thing to say they're recklessly protective of their friends, it's another to take actions that carry real in universe risks to stay true to that idea. A lot depends on the tuning of combat encounters and the capabilities of the group, but by default I find it allowed players to find success without needing to be tactically optimal, letting them show off or let roleplay drive their decision making.

[@RecklessFables]

This is one of the most WATCHABLE channels in gaming. I mostly listen to TTRPG vids while I'm doing something else, like cooking meals. I sat down for this one. Luckily I hadn't fired-up the stove.

[@sifsweetman]

Hell yeah, great to hear Beam Saber get shouted out! I also want to shout out Armour Astir: Advent as well as the PBTA counterpart for mech stuff. Incredible game.

[@Snidhog]

I loved running Beam Saber, but I found that the 80s battletech style mech designs in the book did it no favours, especially compared to the lovely cover and character art. My group ended up turning to Lancer's designs for a lot of inspiration, as well as Retrograde Minis custom mech sprites.

[@babyatemydingo574]

This channel is now, after just two videos, one of my favorites on KZbin. 1. New RPGs. Who doesn't love that? 2. The energy isn't over the top but the passion is there. 3. Well-reasoned and nom-bombastic criticism. Love it. Keep it up :D

[@mitchevans9685]

Been running a Lancer campaign for the last six months or so and having an absolute blast. The foundry support and connectivity with compcon makes everything so really easy. I generally run for anywhere from 4-8 players and I have honestly found that having very loose rules for out of combat really makes the game flow well outside of combat and builds up to these really intense combats every 4 or 5 sessions. We alternate between very silly and very serious depending on the situation and that lends itself really well to the absolute insanity of the different mech options. This is the first rpg we've played that we've all been thoroughly invested in and been able to work through narrative arcs and I have a couple of players that were a bit iffy on role-playing at all that now sit in the discord for two hours after a session talking about what the HELL just happened.

[@annbeez]

I love rules light games with minimal or fast combat, and run them probably more often than any other kind of TTRPG. But I always like to have a really crunchy game in my toolbox to reach for (in my case, Pathfinder 2, though I'd love to try Lancer.) My big reason for this is that a lot of my players like to have some form of play away from the table. In fact, in the rare case where I'm a player, I'm one of these people. Crunchy rules give the players things to noodle over between sessions, it creates online communities where they can discuss builds, apps where they can explore character options, etc. When I bring those players to the table at lighter games, it tends to be the case that either the game doesn't click with them, or they spend their time between sessions thinking about future moments or story developments that often don't pan out how they expect at the table, leading to frustration. When they have a crunchy rule set, they're thinking, "Once I get these abilities, I'll be able to do XYZ and that will be awesome" and then the rules make that happen, and everyone's happy. When we're playing lighter games, I sort of have to guess at their expectations if I want them to be happy, and often pleasing them can run contrary to what's natural in the course of play. As a result, when I'm running with my friends from theatre, I love to be playing Blades, or FATE, or Stars Without Number. But when I'm running with my friends I met playing X-Wing Miniatures, I grab Pathfinder 2.

[@CaptainHoers]

I feel like I'm gonna have a Hbomberguy-Mark Kermode situation going on where if Quinns' take on an RPG is "it's well made, but not for me" then I should absolutely check it out because it will be my cup of tea

[@fungiplays2289]

Oh man, I hope one day there is a Garth Marenghi's Darkplace RPG to go along with the vibe of this series

[@JamieCurrant]

He's written more TTRPGs than he's played

[@turinhorse]

AWESOME IDEA

[@jancarlmatysiak4354]

Thank you for the transparency regarding the number of game sessions. And especially for having played 5 or more sessions before reviewing the title. I personally think that many RPGs have mechanics that only kick in after several sessions. Level ups, the upgrading of spaceships, faction systems and even a hexcrawl that is interrupted by "adventures" cannot be depicted in a one-shot or "quick" review. That's why the balancing act between the effort required for a good play test of an RPG and the required number of videos for a KZbin channel is really tough. So far, it looks like you or you and your team are doing a good job! Thank you =)

[@INTCUWUSIUA]

I find that building a Lancer campaign is really easy if you're a mecha anime freak. Or at least that was my experience. Lancer lends itself very well to being paced like a later Tomino anime (like Turn A or King Gainer), and extracting plothooks becomes super easy when viewed from that perspective. Having your players be mecha anime freaks also helps the enemy identification issues, since then you can more easily draw on the tropes of mecha anime to signal threat and ability.

[@Thepigofthesea]

The thing i love about lancer is this: I am clinically insane. The thing that actually pushes me away from new systems is less structured rules, and less "crunchy" rules. As the local autistic person, i am utterly addicted to number crunching and build optimising, and the amount of depth lancer gives me is intoxicating. I am here for the combat.

[@Onny99]

Is it odd that I found the startup and disk access sounds of that Amstrad at once nostalgic and extremely soothing?

[@Granite-ny8up]

At least you now know you're a Cylon

[@UponThisAltar]

So, I don't believe I've ever seen your channel before, but upon simply seeing the thumbnail and title while on my break at work today I decided to take a look at the Lancer core rulebook. After work and putting my daughter to bed I put two hours into the rulebook and felt obligated to return here. I'm going to watch the full video after I finish cooking my dinner and will edit this comment if I have more to add, but I already feel a deep need to thank you from the bottom of my heart for suddenly introducing Lancer to myself and both my D&D groups. I genuinely can't wait to spin a yarn in this system and its universe.

[@robertmoorhead2406]

I have to say that I hit the same wall you did regarding the presentation of the Lore, but the additional books and youtube lore channels has made it one of my favorite scifi universes. So many scifi verses in RPGs feel like they are just copying Star Wars or Firefly, with the players as plucky rogues either seeking fortune or battling evil empires, but Lancer instead goes for a mixture of the utopian militarism of Star Trek with the human only conflicts of Gundam. It's also been helped along by a wonderful community who have been making and publishing fan content to expand out the universe.

[@quinnharrison9695]

As a fellow Quinn AND a recent purchaser of the core book, I am glad I found this channel.

[@Brighton24601]

Absolutely love the bit in the intro where you put all 10 fingers on the keyboard in the “proper” way… then pull 8 fingers back. I feel seen!

[@J4Cinema]

I’ve wanted to get into lancer and have a book pre ordered right now, but I do totally agree with the note that it’s pretty locked into its setting and can be tougher to run with a more survival-find-parts-to-upgrade kind of game. Thankfully I also have discovered Salvage Union, which is exactly that and more mechs is always a win

[@MonocleTopHats]

I know that nature has only graced us with one Quinns and that it may not be the best use of a Quinns' limited time to talk about the overexposed parts of the RPG scene, but goddamn I wish we had someone of this caliber to take an experienced reviewers eye to D&D, Pathfinder, Savage Worlds hell even OSR games, ___ Without Number, etc. A lot of their coverage is people who have really only stuck within one niche. These videos are so delightful, so excited to see where the rest of the season goes!

[@Skanah_]

I love love love crunchy player build options and excruciating tactical combat so i found the parts of this game that most people seem to see as frustratingly long to be absolutely fascinating and 100% up my alley.

[@Greensleeve11]

I downloaded and read through the player stuff last week. I fell in love. This review made me fall in love harder. All the stuff that Quinn isn't interested in? That's what I want. But a narrative wargame with persistent characters and a bit of improv acting thrown in? I'm in. I am so in. Great review. Gonna have to check out more Quinn's Quest stuff.

[@Yesnog05]

Id love to see Quinn do a playthrough of Lancer

[@michaelwilliamryan]

Quinn. Your mention of the magic circle of the roleplaying game in your Mothership video and your thoughts and advice AFTER the review part of this video. you've won me over to your content. Your quirky approach to the format of your videos is just a bonus. Please, keep it up.

[@stJules]

Post-review tangent really resonated with me. That's why I put "Ironsworn" on the high TTRPG pedestal. Subbed to the channel right away.

[@somefishhere]

Do you play ironsworn alone

[@Blizzic]

That little discussion about tactical games at the end was my favorite part. The whole time I was like “Thank god someone is saying this!”

[@goldengriffon]

Agreed. I feel validated.

[@NicholasMarshall]

I really need Quinns to write a longer video essay on this topic. D&D has brought in a lot of new players to the hobby that are scared of having to learn another complicated rule set. When most other TTRPGS aren't that complicated.

[@Taeerom]

What? Everyone is saying this, and has been saying this for ten years or more. DnD 5e was initially designed to move away from wargame/boardgame-centric play and closer to more story-based play. Because they wanted less 4e in their game. After the 5e release, there's been way more development in that kind of play in other games (pbta blew up, for instance), while the 5e community and development have taken steps back towards boardgame/wargame/crpg style of play. But really, if you are in any rpg space that is not DnD-centric, you will not hear many people talking about how they want more combat in their games. You'll hear people complaining about DnD adn Pathfinder, and how their combat focus is ruining the game. Often hose opinions are stated quite bluntly and in no kind terms.

[@MrDougSpice]

@@TaeeromYou are likely vastly overstating the number of people who are in any rpg space that is not DnD-centric.

[@Taeerom]

@@MrDougSpice But even in DnD-centric spaces (like fan forums of Critical Role or whatever), there is a huge amount of people that shares the same view on tactical combat as this video. It's really strange thinking "finally someone said it", when Mike Mearls said the same thing in 2014 - at the release of 5e.

[@milovogel1568]

absolutely loved lancer, I am very susceptible to falling into the murderhobo pit trap when I get the chance to be a player in dnd, but lancer? picked up the orator skill to jam enemy comms by jumping into calls with them... which led my innocent hacker lady to hearing her foes burn to death in mechs she overheated. She very quickly had several mental breakdowns. gotta be some of the most fun I've had in a ttrpg

[@docopoper]

This is the game me and my friends played at the start of the covid lockdowns. We all had so much time on our hands and were very keen to hang out. So the cool setting and fun mech battles lead to us chatting in character on Discord a lot and then travelling from our space ship to go on missions. It was great fun. And because we stuck to the rules as written Comp/Con was an amazing tool. Though I will say the focus on the game was very much on the combat. It was like playing 4e where you spend a lot of your time doing combat because all the cool new stuff your characters have are for combat, and out of combat you mostly just chat and free play. We used the Blades style mechanics for out of combat stuff, but it felt a bit bare bones when compared with the combat. I think when you're playing a fully fiction first game the fiction can carry the light rules, but when you switch in and out of a fiction first style it can be easy to forget to add enough complications and twists to make the fiction first style have juice. Me and my friends had lots and lots of fun. Though notably we also love both Pathfinder 2e and Blades in the Dark.

[@Hugolaste]

That's interesting cause I stumbled on lancer like a week ago and started reading the free version of the core book. And throughout the book I couldn't help but think that "it just seems like a fighting game where you sometimes breath out and chat for 10 min before going into fights again"

[@GraylightSynes]

@@Hugolaste That sounds awesome.

[@jonasp.1830]

That OCT video on PMG really spiraled into me joining one of the coolest communities i have known on the internet and seeing Toms Ttrpg reviewed here is just something wierdly wholesome for me here.

[@godribbon]

That computer must have cost you a FORTUNE.

[@dendronkenfoetus]

The way this series/channel is presented is absolute gold! It gets me every time! Never change Quinn!

[@jimjones7980]

One of the most exciting combats I have run in recent years was a caravan ambush by Bladewings along a raised road over a flooded plain in Ironsworn. It was all narrative and it felt like something out of movie. It was amazing. We had monsters exploding out of the water as they tackled players from the road knocking them into the water on the other side. We had our blademaster keening to his blade to call upon his ancestors to help him turn the battle's tide. Players were dragged under water or were looking around for ripples in the water to see if they could find where their foes had disappeared to. It was amazing and no maps were needed at all.

[@cameronjohnson918]

Ironsworn is just that kind of game. I had a similar experience running in solo play with a villager that went crazy and tried to kill his family. The fight was super intense and came down to the wire and it was one of the most memorable encounters I had ever had! So great, anyone looking to expand into fiction first games needs to give it a go

[@rngwrldngnr]

3:03 nice to have a computer called a PPC in a mech game discussion video. Also an impressively well prepared pun from a computer that's older than I am.

[@Pancoleon]

Lancer is a game I desperately want to play but can't find friends willing to go down the almost-a-wargame pit with me. On a similar note, as much as a timeline of history & a full org chart don't make for a good world intro I am absolutely the kind of pervert to love that shit and read it all in detail.

[@kudosbudo]

hook em with battletech alpha strike. much easier and lighter.

[@somefishhere]

Beam Saber!

[@necro5000]

You can totally integrate your homebrew stuff into COMP/CON... there is a free LCP-Editor, whith which you can create your own manufacturers, frames, frame variants, weapons, systems, talents, core bonuses, NPCs, etc. or remove existing data from COMP/CON to limit your player's choices... and than upload your LCP to your (and your player's) COMP/CON... I'm not a computer nerd at all, more on the physical miniature side of things, but the editor is really easy too handle 😄

[@FieryChocobo]

It has to be said; Comp/Con is not only an amazing tool for tracking your characters and presenting information, it is ALSO the perfect tool for actually piloting your mechs. When Quinns talks about the volume of rules here he's right, there are a lot of very heavy rules, but Comp/Con handles most of them during combat. How many actions you have, what you can do with them, what damage each weapon does, how much damage you're taking. If you're willing to use it then for your players learning the rules becomes soooo much easier, at that point teaching the game is closer to a boardgame explanation where you are giving players broad strokes of the rules and it is nowhere near as heavy as DnD. And this is not a tool like DnDBeyond that's a lil jank, Comp/Con is smooth and easy to parse and use and oh yeah, free. Including all the content. Seriously, go to Comp/Con right now and just browse it, it's a delight.

[@INTCUWUSIUA]

If you're a real sicko like me you can also use visual elements from Comp/Con to create printed character sheets that are a lot nicer than the pretty bare bones ones the base rules come with. Using those printed character sheets based on Comp/con has made running in person oneshots a breeze.

[@SolarFlorad]

I love Lancer. It resonates so wonderfully with my entire mind. The beauty of its design, the tactics, the lore, it just is chef's kiss. I have gotten art commissioned for all the Lancers in the game we played, and have gotten minis and art made of my character. I have a true love of it.

[@jamesholmes583]

Love the Garth Marenghi vibes and the discussion of each game. Great stuff! 👍

[@croopercrat]

Love that computer sounded like a mech powering up

[@pattyboywales]

I'm currently planning a game of this, and I absolutely agree with Quinns. It's a very cool system and world, but it's also incredibly heavy and it lumps all the work of making a fun setting for a campaign on your shoulders. I'm looking forward to playing it and see if it all works out!

[@fjordojustice]

Love the passion for this medium and these games that goes into your reviews. Even comes through when talking about the game's flaws or things you didn't personally like.

[@kaewierdoni4640]

Post video thoughts I feel you gave it an honest review and I'm happy to hear more upfront about it's short comings, especially the ones I already could see without having run it yet

[@kidneytheft8285]

I really great rules-lite alternative to Lance is Mecha Hack which is a great adaptation of The Black Hack but you play in huge mechs. Its great and fast.

[@Swimavidly]

This is the best review of Lancer I've seen on the internet.

[@IamTerics]

Lancer was the first(and only) game I ran from my friends. The cool mech tactics was the core reason everyone was down for it. And it is a beast of a game to learn. Even using compcon, rules clarification, and VTT, combat sessions took a good 4 hours. It wasn’t confusing, it’s just a lot! I also didn’t realize how much effort it took to a) plan good tactical encounters b) make good maps and c)insert it as thematically and gracefully as possible. I ended up alternating combat and roleplay which felt super forced. It’s a lot harder to do spontaneous “and goblins attack!” when there so much prep required. The KTB book was huge help. It basically adds dungeon world style playbooks(and more mechs) to the already breezy role playing rules. We had waaay more fun running with that than I thought. It really brought into contrast how much work combat is versus the pure roleplay sessions.

[@IstasPumaNevada]

What this show needs for authenticity is more unexpected interruptions by snippets of other TV shows/commercials that got accidentally recorded over parts of it. (Not eclipsing any actual parts of the video of course, just, for fun).

[@aldenutter4975]

Especially episodes of "Pipe Down and Take a Chair" (the occasional 1950s version of Shut-Up and Sit Down)

[@Thebazilly19]

Love the Gubat Banwa and Blades in the Dark shoutouts, those are excellent picks. I hope to see them on the channel later!

[@ThePiachu]

I find it a bit fun that Tom likes Gubat Banwa because those games are connected. So Tom made Kill Six Billion Demons comic that later got adapted into an RPG called Broken Worlds. By accident, K6BD had strong Exalted themes in it, even though from what I heard Tom hasn't read Exalted. Then our podcasting group, Sponsored by Nobody, were doing some Exalted games and trying out other systems. After doing a big campaign in Godbound we wanted to try something lighter so we picked up Broken Worlds and ran two short campaigns with it. Meanwhile, AFAIR Joaquin was also toying together with modding Exalted since he liked that game but wanted something lighter. He couldn't find the right system to fit that idea though until he listened to one of those Exalted Broken Worlds games. So that inspired him to make Karanduun. And the next games from both devs were Lancer and Gubat Banwa and here we are, going full circle :D.

[@ixrer]

I just recently joined a Lancer game and I'm SO FUCKIN EXCITED :D I'm basically a Balor mech with a cascading NHP that's only held to a sense of humanity because it absorbed its previous pilot's consciousness, and made a weird, gestalt entity.

[@leonardbarthelemy5878]

Omg you good man. The edit, the subjet, the humour, the music, the interview : Perfect Lets go, new sub.

[@keystrokecascade]

As someone with not much TTRPG experience but already pointedly dislikes D&D's combat I'm excited for the Lancer Tactics CRPG currently being developed. TTRPGs for me are all about the roleplay with other players and if I want to dig my teeth into some heavy combat mechanics I'd prefer all the rules to be tooltips I can hover over, and all the NPCs moved by an AI that doesn't take 5 minutes to decide where to move. I've yet to play BG3 but I wonder if it would redeem D&D slightly in my eyes from a combat perspective.

[@Pinstripedood]

Lol already got me at the opening line. You've got some of the best writing out there

[@GMColton]

Great review, Quinns. You touched on the strengths and weaknesses of the system in a way that communicates exactly why someone would or would not want to play it. I love it and I've been GMing it for a year and a few months. I would describe it as primarily a (board/war) game with characters you can roleplay with in between the fights. In my current campaign, we generally have 4-6 sessions in a row of mostly combat, followed by 1.5 sessions of narrative roleplay outside of the mechs. I run the game because its combat is crunchy, tactical, and can be satisfyingly challenging if you know what you're doing in the encounter design department. Of course, many MANY others run this game differently as indicated by the comments on this video. I myself have barely any interest in running a more RP-oriented system, but to be fair, I don't have much experience with any of them. What I can say is that I played one session of FATE and kind of hated it. Hours of doing nothing but what is essentially improv with some dice every so often is mentally exhausting for me. But crunching rules, determining the optimal order of actions, thinking about how I can battle my players' characters in interesting ways, etc. is what I live for. It made me chuckle how your group stated it felt like "a turn based tactics video game, but multiplayer" as a downside of the system, but for me, that's the whole point! It just goes to show TTRPGs can appeal to wildly different preferences and desires, and not every game is good for every gamer. PS: In your Wildsea review, when you talked about the good kind of lore in that book, I immediately thought "oh man he would despise Lancer's lore." Lo and behold, I manifested this video :D

[@caseyburke6263]

New favorite show. Thanks Quinns.

[@warriormouse1400]

I've followed Lancer for a while, but just recently learned about Salvage Union, which sounds like it's designed for this exact kind of shorter campaign. It's all about salvaging scrap and parts from other robots, and uses a simpler combat system than Lancer. I like Lancer a lot, and will probably run both in the future. I love how designers can take the same idea of big stomping mechs and make very different games with it!

[@Boondacious]

I have to really agree with the ending bit, as much as I enjoyed my 12 session game - I definitely don't have the time to run a multi-hour combat anymore, even with rulesets I fully understand. Its probably why I've been moving toward the OSR as well, I want to think more about the world and less about the rules. Great review that I feel was incredibly fair and still praised the things it got right!

[@Cobalt-Bleu]

Quinn just discovered your channel. You are entertaining while being informative. Can’t wait for more

[@Eji1700]

To the anyone who bothers to read this: Yes lancer is still amazing. Thanks for mentioning the lore. It's EXCELLENT sci fi lore, but it's frustrating GM lore because not only is it a complex history lesson some 95% of it the players probably aren't even supposed to be aware of because it's all super secret. On top of that, should they get interested in one of the MANY plot hooks, well, better hope you can keep up the quality. There are a TON of mysteries in lancer, and if you're one of those hyper creative GM's who can spin something off and keep it coherent with everything else, more power to you. If you are NOT, then it can be a very difficult to come up with satisfying answers as they dig deeper because almost none of them have been provided yet. Off the top of my head you have: Basically everything about horus The missing kinetic kill weapon Ra and whatever the aunic god is and the obscene amount of lore wrapped up in that All sorts of NHP nonsense or my favorite "So like...i just blew up a HA base...but they're going to give me more guns...right?" There are some answers out there and I've read some good ideas, but given these are going to be things that pop up as issues at every table (also the problem where so many players want to start as a nobody, something lancer isn't great at), the lack of any guidance or examples on how to explain some of this sucks hard. Yep horus is a super secret ultra weird "the truth is out there" style non legit company. But yeah sure take a 1 level dip into balor...a frame that is a borderline walking armageddon. I can think of ways to sell that' especially if i know my player is going that way, but man oh man is the book 0 help on this very common problem. And while i'm old man yelling at clouds: It blows my mind that in this day and age TTRPGs don't have example gameplay on their sites. You poured all this effort and time into a product because you think its fun...and you're not even going to show a quick oneshot showing off some systems and abilities? Just "here's the book, hopefully someone on youtube records it and gives you ideas" I found this doubly frustrating with lancer because of the aforementioned lore issues, but also because it really is a game that probably plays easier on something liike foundry, but given I spend my day configuring systems and coding, I don't love coming home and doing the same (and it blows my mind there's not some complied installer and guide to quickly get up and running to this date)

[@Scheduledd]

I'm pretty sure that this review doesn't exist for my one liked comment asking for it in the previous video, but I'm really glad it exists

[@Rincewindl]

i know you covered Heart briefly in your Spire Video in the future BUT i will be over the moon to see a QQ video on it, just because I am currently running a campaign of it and loving it :P

[@Riotus]

This gets a like just for the unboxing of the computer scene. The rest of the video just happens to be excellent, but that one scene... Lovely!

[@IndentYourCode]

Yes! I totally called that the next video was gonna be Lancer based on your "a game that is more action packed and takes place in the furthest reaches of space" so excited to watch this later today!

[@wisconsinengines]

It took me maybe a month while on paternity leave too get throguh the lore section of lancer but i live for that shit, it's my favoritee sci-fi universe and the reason i play the game.

[@joemacleod-iredale2888]

My step father had that exact computer! I’m feeling very nostalgic, but not for how much trouble I got in when I managed to put two floppy disks in the same drive…

[@TevorTheThird]

An interesting thing to me in light of the end of this video, the roll play vs tactics game part, is how that reflects the source material. Some might argue, people always do, but the best mecha shows and stories are always defined by the characters first and the big robot fights second. I would call myself a huge fan of the genre too. I've watched tons deep cut stuff from 40+ years ago know one has ever heard of... Unless this genre is very much their well house. And it typically doesn't matter how cool the robot or the fight is if you don't care about the characters or their motivations. Hell a common trope for final "bosses", the last bug fight at the end, is that they're usually more about the pilots shouting their philosophical world views at one another as they are the actual fighting. So maybe the best approach here is that you should use the mech battles, in this mecha battle RPG, sparingly and not in fact try to do combat every session. Counter intuitive? Maybe. But reflective of the spirit of the source material... Even if not the often times monster of the week format. Imagine your players being so invested in their pilots, their motivations, the impacts they want to have on the world and then having big swing moments decided by one major lengthy tactical combat session after weeks of no fighting. That fight might just be incredibly engaging as it's enabling all that roll playing as opposed to frequent battles with mook pilots that equate to a random band of goblins with no real consequences for fighting. You can probably apply that logic to any game with very time consuming combat when the group loves to RP more. But by focusing on big important encounters only I think it facilitates both as needed. And like I said I think it suits the genre. You don't get in the Gundam to stop bandits, or because an Owlbear jumped you in the night, you do it to stop Char from dropping an asteroid on the planet. Because your universe is being absorbed by the gods of a parallel one. Because thousands of millions of lives hinge on a big robot fist fight. Less is more when the thing is so intrinsically big already.

[@INTCUWUSIUA]

This right here. I've been pacing my lancer campaigns so that it's roughly 1-2 sessions of zero combat followed by 1 session of mostly combat, and it works great. Use the out of combat stuff to build stakes and tension the let it all out with one big bash.

[@Kiyokoghurt]

Maybe? As I DM, my players absolutely love the combat, and play out narrative more like a comedy series. Alot of goofy messing around, with drama coming from npc rivalries, if there are any npcs left alive after brutal combat. I think your mileage might vary based on your playgroup. I know that having combat once a week was a highlight for my players certainly, more than story.

[@GraylightSynes]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Lancer is very forward about combat being its focus. Players of Lancer are probably way more invested in their mech and combat abilities than in their pilot. Doing a session of Lancer without combat seems anemic and counter productive.

[@Ferrostitan]

As a huge fan of Battletech and just being aware of Lancer about 20 minutes ago, Lancer just seems like a heavily abridged version of the former's game system and may of Quinn's opinions can be valid for either game. One unique aspect of Lancer is that it does focus much more on the pilots' evolution however, which is something I'm really intrigued by (I'm aware that Mechwarrior Destiny is Battletech's attempt to provide a similar RPG experience but I haven't taken a deep dive into that yet). All in all the mech designs and gameplay are highly reminscent of the videogame Titanfall. I love big stompy robots of any kind however and I'm already starting to hunt for a hardcover copy of this beauty!

[@Pawsome_Opossum]

The hardcovers are quite expensive, however there is a pre-order available for the second printing. Comes out this summer I believe.

[@itxi]

Destiny is the light version, a time of war is the full battletech rpg and it has a lot more depth for out of combat stuff than lancer, though it's far from perfect

[@professorpsych]

The style and editing is exactly what I didn’t know I needed so badly. QQ forever!

[@DammitVictor-8H]

Great start! I'm looking forward to the rest of your series.

[@Solanaar]

This was probably the greatest, most refreshing review of a ttrpg. You highlights the pros and cons. And your last point at the end? Chefs kiss, shout it to zhe world cause thats what pepple dont relaize. And they are MISSING OUT on all those amazing games that would fit their interests much better than 5e. Point and case: everyone loces pathfinder right now, because it does many things better fornthe modern ttrpg player. But thats like walking from one side of the park to the other when theres a whole cointry ro explore.

[@Leilataj85]

I came here on a during a break from a frustrating programming class. Much better than the other option I had before… crying while eating cookie dough. Thanks for the laugh ❤

[@solaris_cc4353]

Shoutout to the OSR community! Love the creativity in there.

[@lunarziggurat672]

We played dozens of Lancer games with my friends, and NEVER have any of us finished that lore part of the book. Because of that, it was mostly combat-focused oneshots and one Gundam campaign. And it was awesome! I loved the tactics part, I loved the mech build creation, and I absolutely loved the feeling of having a reactor meltdown at the last turn of a mission. If at aany point my DM would say something about "resourse scarsity" being the reason why we can't customise our mech's gameplay further - I would stangle him on the spot. And then force him to play three 1-st level D&D games in a row.

[@megasquidd]

The sound the computer made me feel very old. Last time I heard that sound Carmen San Diego was about to get caught in Istanbul.

[@Chronx6]

I want to be fair to Lancer with the setting- the whole focus on giant goverment, its structure, and what its doing- its very on point for the genre of mecha. Its how Gundam and such do it. I agree that I would have liked to see more focus on flashpoints and small conflict zones though.

[@maurofitermannmoreira7953]

This review looks gorgeous! Production values through the roof. I've been wanting to try LANCER for a while now too

[@kubrickfan101]

I can appreciate that this would be an incredible experience for a particular type of person. I am not that person.

[@samchafin4623]

Since I've been thinking about starting a big robot game, and waffling between Lancer, Beam Saber, and The Mecha Hack, this review was very helpful in that it showed Lancer was probably too crunchy mechanically for my current tastes. Thanks Quinn's Quest!

[@christopheraustin5915]

I played this at Metatopia before the pandemic and loved the mechs and tone, but I felt really hamstringed when I wanted to anything not mech related. My dream for a mech system (and I can’t believe I am saying this) that’s actually about people and not just the robots. I wanted to do some Char shenanigans where I just clowned on everyone without them realizing I was a mech pilot, and it was barely a system.

[@AgentForest]

As much as I enjoy the RP portions, I'm an old Age of Empires/Command and Conquer/StarCraft veteran, and I live for tactical combat. So this game is likely right up my alley. Plus, the worldbuilding is amazing.

[@erickerickson1332]

dude this is the first video ive seen from you outside of people make games, and it was awesome. Youre killin it!

[@thebrothersslim6056]

What a rock'em sock'em review! Constructive, critical, and positive about all points delivered. I really like your take on crunch and can't wait to hear more. With Lancer's core book reprint coming in a few months, I wonder if we'll ever see another CF campaign, perhaps to remedy to lack of appropriate lore in physical?

[@purplexeno819]

I was in a major online Lancer community for about a year and a half during the pandemic. I'd bought into it long before then, but that was when I really found a group to play with, and the games we had were great! But it was a large community, and as time passed, my mood on the game changed. You could express yourself through combat and your mech, but roleplaying was held together entirely by people doing discord thread RP. You could have a cool idea for what you wanted to do with your mech, but the deep combat rules meant that there were tools that were just objectively better than others, and being flavorful meant hamstringing yourself. You could get deep into the lore and bringing it into the RP, but there was really little reason to do so, and there was a certain dissonance between the author's stated goals of the setting and the actual REALITIES of what had been written. Lancer is a game that is, in many ways, absolutely brilliant while also being deeply flawed. And I think this review does a really good job at exploring that dichotomy! Thanks for all the great work you do.

[@marquisdan7659]

I love this new channel and the videos. I just can't help but get the feeling that you're pushing the idea that liking deep combat heavy games isn't as valid as loving social interaction rpgs. I have pretty strong social anxiety. The RP portions of games with loose rules scare the crap out of me. Games with strict rules for EVERYTHING like Pathfinder (which you seem to be avoiding at all costs for some reason?) provide a huge comfort. I can enjoy the character building, the combat, the teamwork. I can still have fun with my friends and a dm around the table. Liking games with big fights and deep mechanics is ok!

[@coarsehairpete9227]

The ending caveat seems less that those things are BAD, just an expression of frustration of how the predominance of D&D specifically means that people come in thinking that combat-centric models are the only way. D&D's lineage very much comes from war games, and tactical games like D&D, Pathfinder, or Lancer share DNA with war games to this day. That's good for people who want that (and glad you have a system you like with Pathfinder), but the problem comes when people assume that's the only type of game we can work with. He's not saying there shouldn't be tactical games, just that rpg players, especially those who don't particularly like combat, shouldn't understand that as the whole scope of the medium. As for why Pathfinder isn't getting a mention, I'd imagine it comes down to some mixture of 1: It's close to the D&D model, though obviously it has evolved into its own thing in many ways; 2: it's hardly an indie game - Paizo's pretty huge by now (not "Hasbro subsidiary" huge, but compared to most indie game makers), PF has a sizable audience already, and it's usually the second TTRPG most folks hear about; and 3: if he's subjectively interested in more socially and narratively driven games, he's not going to get much out of Pathfinder. This channel isn't an objective arbitration of what games are good or bad. It's a subjective human with his own tastes and peculiarities expressing the ups and downs of his personal experiences, and highlighting what worked or didn't work for him.

[@MythicFox]

I've heard so many people gush about Lancer, whereas I completely bounced off the core book (after backing it on KS and getting the book and everything). As I often feel like I'm the only one who didn't like it, I was reassured by the bit starting at about 15:30 where Quinns basically describes the spring-loaded boxing glove that knocks me away from the book when I try to open it up: the way the lore is presented and how hard it is to get excited about it. The book doesn't tell you "the game is about X." It tells you "Here's a vast universe and people are piloting mechs in it," and I need a little more than that. I acknowledge that mechs are cool, but what else you got? I'd be willing to play in a game of Lancer someone else was running (at least if we can use that digital assistant thing, the tactical systems just seem daunting to me), but nothing at all in the lore stuff makes me go "Oh wow, I want to use this in a story." I can come up with stories in a broad sandbox setting, but I need to be able to see the toys in the sandbox without having to go digging for them (or buying them to bring with me).

[@cruye9633]

(The fleet combat does actually use some robots. In Lancer's fleet combat spinoffs you can actually equip mechs as equipment on your ship you can deploy to fight strike craft and board other ships.)

[@kylegavinsimone]

First video I’ve seen of yours. Subbing immediately for the 80’s/90’s style and good banter.

[@EmberForge-TTRPG]

I Love mechs, I love TTRPGs, looks like this is now on my shopping list. Nice video, ty.

[@squeethemog213]

This was a fascinating review and I do can't wait to give this a shot 🤩 Your review was very fun and the computer but was such a fun tactile bit.