R. Scott Bakker's THE GREAT ORDEAL with Philip Chase || Aspect Emperor Book 3, The Second Apocalypse

[@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy]

Thank you for accompanying me on this brilliant, enlightening, and horrifying journey, Johanna! I'm so glad I get to discuss Bakker's amazing writing with you!

[@Johanna_reads]

Thank you for going on this Second Apocalypse with me! These have been some great “meaty” discussions, and I’m grateful for all your insights!

[@anekarice]

I also loved Kellhus's response to Malowebi. "Weary" So powerful, and a useful reminder that for everything Kellhus is, he is still just a man.

[@slay.187]

As always, your discussions are brilliant. I’m so hyped for Dr. Chase to get to TUC. I hope he ends up reading the glossary too as it reveals a lot of fascinating details and mysteries. As for Theliopa, she’s autistic. Bakker highlights that through a variety of subtle details.

[@Johanna_reads]

Thank you, Slay! That's so interesting about Theliopa. I loved that character!

[@shelfunstable]

I'm so excited for your Unholy Consult thoughts. Your journey through this series has been so fun to watch, I'm glad it's been such a rewarding read for you.

[@Johanna_reads]

Thank you, Amanda! I loved hearing your thoughts in the discussions you, Jimmy, and Mark had.💜

[@josephd5879]

Great video and awesome discussion. I did the same after readying The Great Ordeal, I had to continue and read The Unholy Consult. Bakker is very underrated.

[@Johanna_reads]

Thank you so much! I'm in awe of Bakker's writing. That had to be one of the most climactic endings to a book I've ever read!

[@anekarice]

Thanks for the discussion guys. I definitely recommend reading the short story False Sun in the appendix of TUC if you haven't already. It's probably better to read it before TGO/TUC (it doesn't spoil either book).

[@andrewhanson405]

This was a great discussion! You all are making want to do a reread of these four books. I really like the shout out to Mark's channel, as his reviews seemed to be what kicked started the booktube interest on this series. Bakker's writing is so visceral and intense during these last two books. I couldn't put them down. I read through the finale two books back to back in only a few days time. Even though the series is called The Second Apocalypse, I was surprised that Bakker would embrace full blown horror by series end. I'm glad you spent time talking about Theliopa as she seems to get overlooked in discussions with these books. Her relationship with Esemenet was fascinating to me, because throughout this series Esmi is desperate for the child that will love her back. I always felt by the constant concern Theliopa shows towards Esmi throughout the three books that Theliopa was in fact that child, but because she is so far up the spectrum Esemenet never realizes it. So when Esmi loses her, I got really emotional. Can't wait for The Unholy Consult discussion because that book kept lingering in my mind well after I read it.

[@Johanna_reads]

That is an excellent albeit tragic point about Theliopa and Esmenet! I’m eager to reread all the books someday. I’m sure there’s so much I missed this first time, and I’m still amazed by all the books. Thank you so much for watching!

[@leehunts4327]

Great to see another discussion! I loved reading and picking apart these books. The Great Ordeal and The Unholy Consult are my longest reviews to date, and for a good reason.

[@Johanna_reads]

Thank you for watching and letting me know about your reviews! These books are worthy of all the discussions.

[@leehunts4327]

@@Johanna_reads No problem!

[@Red21Viper]

That was awesome. I like a lot your insights. I cannot wait to see what Philip will make of what Kellhus had in store for Proyas! Him mentioning Sibawul, the Scalded leader, in the water gave me goosebumps. I always had strong biblical visions of these chapters. Especially when the Ordeal traverses the mountain passages in the night, Bar of Heaven lightning up their way and the scalded watching them from the back in the lower levels. Great imagery. This book along with the Unholy Consult have been raised in immense heights for me through my rereads. They have become my all time favorite books. Passages like Ishterebinth and what Bakker does there with Nonmen are so haunting and original and thought provoking. He is such a good and distinct writer. Power and Insanity!

[@Johanna_reads]

I can understand why this has reached such heights for you. Bakker is unparalleled in his ability to write dark, gritty, imaginative, heavy-weighted fantasy!

[@chrisantal2442]

Love the shout out to Mark @Slowly Red. His passion for this series is what inspires me to read it. He was one of the first pushing this series and again, his passion for it was so palpable.

[@Johanna_reads]

@@chrisantal2442 Mark is my favorite Dûnyain on BookTube! He’s done so much for this series, and his videos are invaluable!

[@t.hussain921]

TGO is my favorite book in the series (especially the Survivor's chapters, Ishterebinth chapters and the battle of daglish). I find Serwa's character quite fascinating. I'm always rooting for her.

[@Johanna_reads]

Such brilliant writing! I agree about Serwa. I found myself rooting for her as early as this book!

[@karloswald407]

So cool to hear Joanna bring up The Wall. Also one of my favourite films, watched it a dozen times. Very similar vibes to 2nd Apocalypse.

[@Johanna_reads]

Hooray for a fellow Floyd fan! That movie had such a deep impact on me growing up.

[@anekarice]

To answer the question / uncertainty over Malowebi's use of the chalice / token... I may get some of the terminology wrong here... He's of the Mbimayu school, which is an anagogic school. It uses the Iswazi tradition, where totems (eg the chalice) are used to focus the sorceror's actions. Hence the strange shield effect. This isn't much different from other anagogic techniques, eg the conjuring of sparrows / starlings made of fire as a method of causing fire damage on a target.

[@TheLinguistsLibrary]

Johanna you are simply a doorway into a fantastical world I must enter! So books added to my tbr

[@Johanna_reads]

Aw, thank you! I feel the same about you and all the classics you make me eager to read! ❤️

[@kierenvarney2159]

Philip giving every possible interpretation of the head on the pole… except the 1 🤣 on a re-read this whole chapter completely changes. The subliminal layers throughout the entire series you pick up on second/third reads just shows how genius Bakker is. Praise the meat!

[@Johanna_reads]

Creepy! I'm sure you're right about the reread. Yikes!

[@YouWinILose]

Excellent discussion, so rewarding to listen to! Ishterebinth was a trip, for sure. I thought the giant Nonmen were not integrated or introduced well, but apparently they are featured in one of his short stories. The amiolas, however, was one of my favourite parts. The dream logic of seeing your reflection with a casque over your entire head was nightmarish. Unfortunately I step off the bus here, as I confessed I haven't read TUC yet. Will start a reread in 2025 and catch up and finish the series 🙂 Perhaps by then Bakker will be working on the No God duology.

[@Johanna_reads]

The depths of the Weeping Mountain were already a bit surreal, and the amiolas only added to that. I hope Bakker continues writing in this world!

[@EricMcLuen]

While you did keep a poker face, I might have noticed a few 'just wait' smirks. I read that zero sum section several times and maybe it will make more sense on a reread. I wonder if Bakker watches anime as the Scalded seem right out of Akira or something similar. Those scenes might have been cringe if written by someone else but the writing just sucks you in, or as I think you mentioned Bakker just worms his way into your head. I do agree that it is hard to be invested in the characters on a personal level but being incredibly invested in what happens to them. But the last few books remind me about how my ex-wife described Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon - it's about women just kicking ass. It is the women who are striving for change while the men just chug relentlessly on.

[@Johanna_reads]

I couldn’t help but feel invested in several of them, and Bakker seems to revel in creating conflicting feelings. Such a wild and brilliant series!

[@marcweber8509]

Great discussion as always! :) Also looking forward to more WoLaS. They're so diametrically opposed when it comes to philosophy and spirituality. Could be an interesting comparison ;)

[@2GunsUpZ]

Thanks for this. And glad I'm not the only person who can't stand Kelmomas.

[@Johanna_reads]

Bakker knew exactly what he was doing to our psyche, making us struggle with what appears to be a little boy. So disturbing!!

[@brentasmith]

Trying to watch this but there's a head on a pole behind you

[@Johanna_reads]

It’s haunting! 😄

[@zubaerchaudhari8267]

Hello there hey there hey Hello

[@Johanna_reads]

Hello 👋