Rabbi Ammiel Hirsch and the Anti-Zionist Crisis Facing Reform Judaism

[@ELJason2006]

Great podcast I applaud R Hirsch for his introspection. A good friend of mine is an associate rabbi at a prominent San Francisco Reform congregation would never admit the shortcomings of the Reform movement. Brave, strong and clear. Great interview

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

Humanistic Jews as well.

[@Elepescu]

Decades of no persecution of Diaspora Jews is a major factor in this issue. Persecution fosters an anguished curiosity about History. When life is easy, ain’t nobody gottime to study History. So, If Zeydee understands the need for an Israel where Jews have a government. Zeydee’s kids and grandkids do not. Today’s hatred for Jews may raise the awareness that Zionism is about the desperately needed power to maintain a protective shield on a thriving nation in their historic homeland. This may be the only positive result of today’s hatred for Jews in the west.

[@orpheliaolivia]

R Hirschs repetitions of how american jews will not become observant is missing the point that none/low observance will not disappear, but the normative power of heterodoxy in the us might. Looking at the community in uk, france, south africa or basically anywhere outside of the us, there are few heterdox shuls, but plenty jews who are not shomer shabbes. However they accept orthodoxys normative power. Its really an american jewish particularism to say that ideology and practice should or do fully align. It feels like some sort of absurd bleed over from american christianity, because living and holding space for contradictions and conflicts feels *very* jewish to me. Eg the conservative movement in the uk do not perform conversions and only accept orthodox ones

[@freespeech100]

Serious question: Is he unaware of how successful Modern Orthodox schools have been at preparing their graduates for success at elite colleges? It seems like there is an a priori disdain for Jewish day schools rather than a real curiosity about how to make Reform Jewish dayschools work.

[@jaredgreenspan2263]

This guy says he wanted the reform youth to care about human values but clearly the exception is when it comes to Israel-Palestine. So are you implying that on all the other issues that your youth care about that those views have been correct and fine but on Israel they are completely wrong? Just this one issue. Because it doesnt seem like you are bringing up any other issue where they are incorrect or so misinformed.

[@danbfm]

Most people implicitly understand that self-preservation is a fundamental right. I am not a rabbi, but I can tell you with 100% confidence that's a core principal of the torah.

[@ronaldshiffman9171]

I have not listened to the entire podcast at this moment. Nonetheless, I have some thoughts. I hear a lot of sociological analysis from Rabbi Hirsch. I know that 75% of US Jews voted Democrat in the last few elections. What I don't see or hear from the Reform Movement is discussion of Torah or belief in G-d. I can go to the Chabad web cite anytime and hear discussions about G-d and Torah. I can't recall anyone saying 'Democrat platform' at Chabad. And there is your answer. If a Jew does not immerse themselves to some degree in Torah and G-d, it is fair to argue that they are no longer Jewish. Communists and socialists are well known to disbelieve in G-d (many Jews subscribe to communist and socialist ideas), which makes it very easy to become antisemitic. If there is no G-d, does Judaism make sense? I think the 2024 Presidential election will be landmark. If Biden is to win, he will need at least 70% of the Jewish vote. If Jews in America continue to support Democrat Party policies, which clearly disparage Israel, America is screwed and we will get punishment what we deserve.

[@Jayla-dj2gj]

You are 100% correct. It has always bothered me that Jews who don't even follow Torah & G-d are usually the communist and socialist that have a history of destroying countries that result in millions dying. Communism is a sin. Reform Jews preach Democrat talking points and use Torah as an excuse to be liberal activist. Just like in the Russian revolution communist Jews helped destroy Judaism and sent many religious Jews to the gulag. Democrat socialist atheist Jews will vote for Biden no question about that.

[@barryklarman2720]

America has challenges either way- so too do American Jews. The political party doesn’t matter.

[@ronaldshiffman9171]

@@barryklarman2720 Totally disagree. Trump was tightening up security at our southern border. Biden totally reversed all the progress we had made in reducing illegal immigration. At least 20 million illegal aliens have entered our country about whom we know nothing. That has to be a problem. 10 years ago it would have been unthinkable to see antisemitic protests at our major universities and even on the streets of New York. Leftists and Islamists are increasing in our country and it is because of Democrat Party policy. Michigan now is an Islamic swing state. The Democrats just let Islamists into the country, but they come from anti-Israel countries. It is insane to allow our enemies to enter and set up shop. They will kill us.

[@iraseiden]

Thank you Ronald - point by point. At about 30:00 for perhaps 2 minutes the chasm appears. The chasm expands marginally after that. We could call that chasm 'the fault line' - pun on 'fault' as "What did we do wrong" IS the right question but skipping over 'the fault line' is a repetition of the 'wrong'. And... I am so IMMENSELY thankful for THIS duet's conversation - and your Comment and thoughts.

[@GreenCanvasInteriorscape]

Demorrhoids ruin everything Any j that would vote for her ignorantly blinds themselves to who she associates with and what she says is unfathomably pro communist anti-america anti-religion anti-christian yet that's leftist J America and a lot of gentile s are still obsessed with Trump Russia and experience trump/israel derangement syndrome, occasionally with a dose of Netanyahu derangement syndrome

[@lesliehirsch8399]

Great conversation. Thank you ❤

[@jaredgreenspan2263]

So the only way for American jews to be together and have continuity is for the state of Israel to exist? Then how did Judaism survive for thousands of years prior to 1948?

[@Stratus6]

They didn't live in the USA, for one thing.

[@sh25098]

They lived in separate communities and at the end 6 million were killed

[@waz3128]

@@Stratus6 good answer!

[@ernestkhalimov1007]

​@@Stratus6then how did judaism even survive before america ?

[@davidschalit907]

You don't want to find out.

[@markcham581]

Reform Judaism is a success story? How do you let him get away with such nonsense? Furthermore, it was clear that Hirsch considers success in obtaining wealth and influence is paramount and Jewish identity and knowledge, is secondary..Again, how did that go unchallenged?

[@michellelansky4490]

Was thinking just what you just commented. Reform movement a success? This current prob of self hating and maligning your fellow Jews is a success story? Intermarriage at what % these days is a success story? People who have NO concept of Torah no flavor of Judaism, is a success story? Which success is he referring to?????

[@alicedebrow1593]

And yet where Is the youth movement today?

[@reuvenbisk3220]

Statistics tell you more about trends. Per Pew, in the above 65 age group the Orthodox constitute only about 4% of affiliated Jews. In the 29 and below age bracket, it’s over 31%. The birth rate among the Reform and Conservative is appallingly low - .3 to .5.

[@brucelevine6517]

Don't believe it not being orthodox is not reformed by default reform represent no one but themselves

[@gwedielwch]

Surely at least observing the Commandments which Moses brought down from Sinai - surely this is even more important than Jewish peoplehood. Ethnic cohesion is very attractive - especially when the group is as wonderful as the Jewish people are. But the Commandments are fundamental. I despair at the terrible actions and terrible words I have witnessed and heard over the last year.

[@torrybrockert5750]

Torah literally warns against offshoots of religion. Yet for some reason these believers couldn't be brave enough to go full atheist? Why not? Either Torah is word of G-d or it's not. There is no in-between, offshoot, relaxed version of that idea that's acceptable. Right?

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

Humanistic Judaism

[@danbfm]

For hundreds of years, the torah was a living document that was open to interpretation. It became codified about 1500 years ago with Mishnah and Talmud but it was open to interpretation and still is today. This is why we have rabbis that can help us explain how the torah is applied in modern times.

[@Aaron565]

Yes reformation is bullshit and would never accept a real debate. Like how liberals may resort to censorship whilst they would be killed if their counterparty had been actual despots.

[@neilsharris]

Thank you for sharing this!!

[@patriotsforisrael3610]

193 countries in the world: 67 Roman Catholic 49 Islamic 49 Protestant 14 Eastern Orthodox 3 Hindu And only ONE Jewish country. That's not too much to ask. And we're not asking. 🩵🤍

[@ernestkhalimov1007]

Even according to Judaism the Jews are not allowed to have a state regardless. Rabbi Elhanan Beck makes it very clear

[@Dakini31]

Actually there are 57 Muslim dominated countries… Israel is a tiny country the size of New Jersey.

[@TheHauntedKiwi]

You are of course a liar. An ethnocentric racist liar

[@lyndalwilson5729]

I was interested in reference to Jewish peoplehood to hear that at one point some considered it a “vestige of the past”. I have a Christian background and live in Australia - not a great vantage point for understanding Jewish issues. But what has become apparent in my church circles post October 7 is that many seem to think G-d is a vestige of the past! G-d’s promises are therefore easy to disregard, including by our clergy. History tells us that it is no easy task to be a light to the nations, and I am deeply, deeply grateful for millennia of Jewish faithfulness and am humbly aware of its immense cost. Please keep up your efforts. The whole world depends on it. 😮

[@barryklarman2720]

You don’t need to believe on G-D or even observe religiously to be Jewish. Many Jews don’t believe I a G-D. There is still a civilization and peoplehood component and for those with a connection to both there is a connection to the Land of Israel. The State of Israel is still important to various degrees based on lots of factors. Religiosity is but one and for some is a reason for being anti-Zionist.

[@tzvigrossman1872]

34:43 from this conversation it's kind of obvious what you did wrong... You identified success in the wrong way... It seems like you're identifying success by the relatively relatively shallow gaines... Success isn't how rich you are or how many degrees you have and how influential you are in society... When you define success by developing a connection with God and personal growth and then your children will see what success looks like to you and will emulate you...

[@tzvigrossman1872]

37:51 Simcha Torah won't be the same ? And your wondering why you have a problem...

[@interesting391]

If your primary focus is "identifying" as Jewish then your movement has got a serious problem. What value is there in identifying as American if you don't agree with American values? The same could be asked for christianity or Muslim. What is significant is living up to the values of the identity and your identification is a byproduct of that.

[@Yanagirl2011]

Have you thought about actually having anti-Zionist Jews on your program to answer your questions, and explain how they relate to terms like "Ahavat Yisrael" and "Kol Yisrael Areivin Zeh BaZeh" instead of merely inviting rabbis to critique these Jews?

[@lsblatt1]

None of them would understand those concepts .

[@Yanagirl2011]

@@lsblatt1 Interesting. I'm an anti-Zionist Jew, and I understand both concepts.

[@zvell636]

@@Yanagirl2011❤💯

[@robn9e424]

This is what Anti-Zionism stands for. If you stand for the below, nobody is interested in your warped position. In the days following Hamas’s October 7, 2023, invasion of Israel, the national leadership of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and many of the organization’s campus chapters explicitly endorsed the actions of Hamas and their armed attacks on Israeli civilians and voiced an increasingly radical call for confronting and “dismantling” Zionism on U.S. college campuses. Some SJP chapters issued pro-Hamas messaging and/or promoted violent anti-Israel messaging channels.

[@sh25098]

Thats an oxymoron.

[@rebeccastrader8842]

The promises of the Enlightenment were helpful in some ways, but homogenizing humanity only impoverished us by trying to delegitimize our spiritual tradition and passion for the good, the compassionate, the just, the merciful.

[@jacobsolomon427]

With all due respect you should not give this man legitimacy by interviewing him has nothing to do with the term 'Rabbi' See tshuva of R' Moshe

[@michellelansky4490]

👍.......it's irking me the entire time.....he just nods and says yeah yeah.......really what the solution bec you do have to be polite and respectful. Solution should have been (and maybe he did this well never know) to ask a shaylah BEFORE having him on at all. Once on it's a pickle.

[@mariahavraham7507]

I attended a Pérez passover years ago. If I didn't know better the presentation could have been about another community. Wishy, washy and a great breeding ground for Jews for Jesus.

[@JG-mt3rp]

This is a really rich dialogue. I think it's difficult to have this conversation without at first addressing the elephant in the room - the vast majority of American Jews have Marxist tendencies. I must say it's a little bit surreal to see rabbis saying "How did this happen?" without looking at the broader political backdrop of American Jewish life. I was astounded and disappointed to see that 4 out of five American Jews voted for Kamala Harris. How much more evidence do we need to see before we wake up? Look at the most prominent Jewish Americans, a sad list of leftist, collectivist subversives. I love Torah, I love Israel, I love our IDF, but as an American Jew I am often ashamed of other American Jews. I hope we finally start having this conversation. Maybe watching their own children wave the flag of Hamas and Hezbollah will be the wake up call then my fellow American Jews need.

[@honeybeechanger]

You know I think that growing up in a Jewish community. I think that the center should be from the synagogue/Temples. I think that that was the problem from my childhood. In addition to that problem about 20 years ago the Orthodox community and Bibi Netanyahu allied themselves with the Christian right and they basically abandoned their secular non-orthodox Jewish brothers and sisters. The Jewish World got divided politically and in all other ways. Those kids got abandoned by Bibi Netanyahu in all the Orthodox rabbis who said that you know what you know non-orthodox Jews are not Jewish time and time again I've heard that that is just breaking us apart.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

Totally agree 💯

[@JG-mt3rp]

That is a very long-winded way of saying that you were rightly shunned for your infatuation with Marxism. This thinking is the bane of our people It puts a target on my back.

[@meidassecondsoprano150]

❤very important podcast

[@femtess]

How is the existence of a 76 old colonial apartheid state important for the continuation of a religion that’s been around for thousands of years? Nonsensical.

[@Giss.ivan1234]

Tell me you know nothing of Judaism without telling me you know nothing of Judaism

[@ernestkhalimov1007]

Your accusation is a confession​@@Giss.ivan1234

[@davidschalit907]

Lol! The religion is 'thousands of years old', but the homeland it comes from is a "colony". The stupidity is mind-boggling!

[@femtess]

@@davidschalit907 The stupidity is indeed mind-boggling. Christianity comes from the same land. You don't see that justifying Christian colonialism and a bunch of European Christians "returning home" to ethnically cleanse indigenous people off their land.

[@davidschalit907]

@@femtess And yes, the stupidity continues! Amazing! Christians are not a people or a nation. Christianity is a religion. Jews ARE a people and a nation. The freaking Jewish religion states that directly in the Torah! The early Christians were Jews, part of that people & nation, and they lived in the Jewish homeland because they were part of the nation & people of Israel!! However, today, 99% of Christians are NOT Jews! So a mass movement of Gentile Christians to Israel would be 'colonization'. But Jews returning to their homeland is just that...Jews returning to their homeland. Thanks for playing. |

[@rebeccastrader8842]

How is justice for Palestinians a non-Jewish value? You’ve “instilled” Jewish values in youth, then expect them to jettison them when Israel acts unjustly? This in no way excuses the horror of the Hamas attack.

[@jeannesilberstein3879]

Islam teaches Jew hatred just like the Nazis did. The Mufti went to Germany and collaborated with Hitler. For peace to be sustainable there needs to be “reform” in Islam.

[@uriel7203]

How has Israel acted unjustly?

[@danbfm]

Have you spent more than 15 minutes honestly learning about Islam and how it views jews? If you have not, then you will never find your answer.

[@danbfm]

I strongly suggest you learn about Islam and how Muslims have treated Jews over the past 2000 years. If you espouse liberal values and your views of the world are not completely euro-centric then you should understand concepts such as dhimmi, kufar, taqiya and the honor and celebration of martyrdom. Liberal values means you understand how other people see the world and prioritize what's important to them. It doesn't mean that you should want for them the same thing you want for yourself. If fighting jews till the very last drop of blood gives their life meaning and preserves their honor, should we serve up ourselves for slaughter or accept dhimmitude so that we respect their values?

[@khubza8999]

@@danbfmBat Ye’or was a populist and not a scholar. Jews have thrived under Islam. A Holocaust under Islam was and remains unthinkable

[@jaredgreenspan2263]

This whole argument is so ridiculous. Just come out and say it, that you think one can only be a real Jew if you blindly support Israel. Instead of doing one hour of pretzel twisting

[@ronaldshiffman9171]

You're awareness is stunted. Judaism is about G-d and Jews are about Israel. G-d instructed the Hebrews to cross the Jordan River and settle Israel. Everyone is free to dispute my assertions, but I don't think it is possible to disagree with them and in the same breathe say you are NOT antisemitic.

[@jaredgreenspan2263]

@@ronaldshiffman9171 that would refer to an ethnic group of Israelites. There was no such things as modern day nation states thousands of years ago. Jews who now want to live in that region should be considered ethnic Israelites who would be allowed to live within a secular Palestine. Israeli-Palestinian

[@ronaldshiffman9171]

@@jaredgreenspan2263 Have you read the Tanach? The Hebrews were slaves in Egypt. Moses lead them out of Egypt to Israel with the help of G-d. Joshua lead the Hebrews across the Jordan into Israel. These are facts, backed up by archeology. You have a hang up. You don't have to support Israel. We live in a free country. Nonetheless, Israel is the nation of Jewish people. People who disparage Israel disparage Jews.

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

​@@ronaldshiffman9171Zionism is not Judaism.

[@ronaldshiffman9171]

@@jaredgreenspan2263 Dude, you are just making stuff up. Jews are descendants of Abram, Sarah, Isaac, Rebecca, and Jacob, Rachel. Jews received the Torah at Mt. Sinai and the next generation of Jews settled inside of Israel. Almost all of the Jewish population of Israel was expelled by the Romans. Over time, Jews began to return to live in the Holy Land, propelled in the early 1900s by the philosophy of Zionism. Don't be stupid. Jews were severely persecuted in Europe. The Zionist philosophy said the only said place is Israel. Jews do not have to migrate to Israel if they don't want to be 'Zionist'. But the fact remains that the safest country for Jews at this time in history is Israel. G-d bless Israel.

[@Nudnik1]

Rabbi Hirsch 👍 תודה רבה שלום Rabbi Kahane was right.

[@DmitryYR]

And none of the speakers dares mention the elephant in the room by its name - assimilation.

[@jaredgreenspan2263]

Why is it a flaw to be anti-zionist? When was anti-zionism decided to be a flaw in character?

[@rkdb99]

It depends what you are referring to with the term. There are anti-zionists who are essentially anti-semites, and there are some that want a 100% secular state, and there are some that want a 100% religious state. In the context of post October 7th, anti-zionists tend to be loud and full of misinformation/lies and have recently hopped on the bandwagon based on social media propaganda, etc. The flaw, imho, lies therein. A related idea is that anti-zionism depends on what you mean by zionism. If zionism is the belief that Jews have a home in land of Israel (Jerusalem, Judea, Galilee, etc. etc.) then the state and its policies are sort of secondary to that; being anti-zionist is closer to being anti-Jewish self determination. If you identify zionism is 100% a political movement then you would associate it with the state itself and thus being 'anti-zionist' would be the primary thing you are against. Hope this helps, just some thoughts on it.

[@Cleekschrey]

Agree. Anti-Zionism is a legitimate position

[@robn9e424]

This is what the people in this episode think of when they of the Anti-Zionism position. In the days following Hamas’s October 7, 2023, invasion of Israel, the national leadership of Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and many of the organization’s campus chapters explicitly endorsed the actions of Hamas and their armed attacks on Israeli civilians and voiced an increasingly radical call for confronting and “dismantling” Zionism on U.S. college campuses. Some SJP chapters issued pro-Hamas messaging and/or promoted violent anti-Israel messaging channels. This is a very flawed and ugly position.

[@dummlp]

Not in real life. In phantasy land, or in a theology discussion ​@@Cleekschrey

[@elianaj.3373]

If you’re even Jewish you wouldn’t be asking yourself that

[@mikeklein9923]

FFB advocating for Fri Nite Live services. Families in seats.

[@michellelansky4490]

Please dont call it Orthodox as though its just another flavor of choice. Halachic, Torah true, Torah observant, etc......Orthodox really was a particular community in Germany not an 'ill take Orthodox for $100'.

[@Antiquitycar]

When you think you are smarter than God...

[@oprrrah3498]

Maybe they should consider taking a less offensive approach the world. The problem IS Zionism itself.

[@izoldanaftalov3702]

You are THE Problem not Zionism

[@Stratus6]

The problem is the Palestinian ideology. Why wouldn't you see their claim to the land of Israel offensive?

[@gabrielleangelica1977]

​@@Stratus6Segregation, occupation and apartheid in a brutal prison village called Palestine is the problem.

[@jeannesilberstein3879]

@@gabrielleangelica1977Look at travel videos of Gaza before 2005 it was at a higher economic level . When the “Palestinians “ took over all the aid money went to building tunnels and armaments instead of to public improvements. A

[@TheHauntedKiwi]

​@@jeannesilberstein3879Oh look, the slave master has come to tell us all about how the slaves need guidance and can't function outside slavery.

[@Abdgi]

Shtat Isroil and Shtat Palestine help 🕋💐🙏🕋🕋🕋🙏🌈🌈🌈🌈🌟🌈🌈🌟💖💐🌈🌟🌟🌈🙏🙏🙏🌟🙏🙏🙏🌟🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@JoeShmo8868]

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