Race to World First Q&A - Nerub-ar Palace

[@clint7168]

I can't be the only one patiently waiting for undercover raiding already

[@jobi7651]

im with you

[@tertfjert]

hell yea! so happy they won, good content incomming!

[@tertfjert]

hell yea! so happy they won, good content incomming!

[@tertfjert]

hell yea! so happy they won, good content incomming!

[@zebzeren]

@@tertfjert Hell yea! so happy they won, good content incomming!

[@JJJBunney001]

I know this might be boring to you but a video breaking down the logistics of a RWF win would be great. Like number of people, content you had to run, amount of hours spent, gold spent yhat sort of thing would be really interesting to see for us mortals

[@Sadistichippo]

Dratnos definitely was the GOAT this broadcast. He and Eiya carried it.

[@Excentrix54]

I hate dratnos voice

[@Bobin22]

I’m so fucking glad we’re back to the yapping. RWF is neat but this is the fucking content.

[@leaveacomment]

I think the difference between Echo and Liquid was unironically the vibe. Liquid seemed happy and motivated whereas Echo's players felt stressed and tilted.

[@jakejames4504]

Being behind the whole race would probably hurt your mental I imagine

[@eccmecc434]

Echos main tank was setting out this tier after a suicide attempt. Talking about vibes.

[@Fullmodulation]

specially after what happend to zaelia sadly

[@NanoLT]

Echo always look depressing

[@NanoLT]

@@Fullmodulation What happened to Zaelia's girlfriends, you mean?

[@septicoo]

first time when i have watched every single of your streams for world first...such a great quality ones.

[@scottolson8352]

I’m so happy for liquid this tier, reminding me of Nebraska in the nineties… how do you stretch a lead when the other teams have a draft? Get so far ahead you demoralize them. Great work.

[@Johnoez]

no point to the race if one guild is so far ahead they consistently dominate without any real competition i would argue the best part of the RWF this season was Method only being 2 hours behind Echo to the Ansurek kill, that was so uplifting and is a great sign for the race as a whole

[@lsc42069]

what? no way, this is more like 2001 Miami. Dominant for sure but a 90s Nebraska performance would be like 100 fewer pulls on every boss and finishing before the reset.

[@Sargaxiist2022]

Congrats on the win. It was really entertaining to watch.

[@JMartinDA]

"I just wanna hang around with my friends" is wholesome af.

[@bori1008]

i won't deny i'm an echo fan , but you guys play FANTASTIC. Hands down i was like this guys are COOKING. Gratz . Well deserve. Also THD save was GOAT.

[@billyy7848]

you call exploiting "fantastic"?

[@MikeSierra-dd4pz]

@@billyy7848 found the echo chamber. not one original thought in your head, i bet.

[@billyy7848]

@@MikeSierra-dd4pz Firedup was exploiting on stream and tried to hide it. its insane how fkn stupid u ppl are 💀

[@CC_Seig]

@@billyy7848 True, its not like the "bug" in the spellslinger tooltip was already delivered to blizzard on the TWW beta, and "exploiting" is a bit far off, when they did like ~4 pulls with that without doing little to no progress, because firedup did ~4% more dmg overall. Which, at that time, didn´t really matter. After that maximum called "Let´s not continue with this, we can get in trouble." and they killed it without the Spellslinger "exploit". While literally people from Echo and other top guilds exploitet the reputation farm for a fast level 25 reputation and they where salty about, that blizzard took action against it/them. You really can´t deny that Liquid played fantastic this time, and it was definitely not because firedup used a well known issue in the Spellslinger tree for a few pulls.

[@billyy7848]

@@CC_Seig it does not matter if you only do it for 4 pulls or whatever, if you exploit you should be banned. firedup even tried to hide that he was exploiting. if you know you are exploiting you deserve to be banned, not perma but he should have gotten the same as echo and method got, a 4 day ban. So i guess exploiting in the race is OK now.

[@danielsun9124]

For Firedup shit , i heard the mage community knew abt it and reported it ever since beta. They’re annoyed that after all those “we’re listening” shit, they ignore the but/exploit all beta long and now that there’s a RWF drama, they fucking immediately patch it.

[@ariex0a]

It's 100% a Blizzard negligence issue and 0% player trying to win issue

[@QPoily]

@@ariex0a W/L take. Blizzard are definitely morons for allowing this shit to stay in the game for so long, but players absolutely still have agency over their own actions to determine whether it's OK to abuse a very obvious exploit or not. This wasn't a case of a cheater going "oh no I fell dick first into a pussy". This was "I see the pussy, I know I shouldn't go for it, but I'm going to do it anyways because of the temptation to do so".

[@williamherald2605]

@@QPoilyif blizzard doesn’t care enough to patch it after that long I am going to consider it intended behavior not a bug

[@Gitaikou]

fire the devs and ban the players ez

[@talisredstar1543]

@@Gitaikou Then the company is short handed, and the teams are as well. The First pushes back an already crunch like level of work with their 7 to 8 week cadence. The 2nd, hinders a team, and could equate to loosing a favored player you like to watch. Think before you speak.

[@Otherside7000]

I love the quick turn around from Max getting annoyed answering the same questions over and over on stream to this video getting released. Impressive on Fronk's part and also very funny.

[@XTY1652]

Yo Max great job, keep it up! Agree with your take on Dratnos. He is a great caster. The race to world first cast could take some inspiration from professional sports casting. We are all nerds and love stats. Casters could be analyzing the loot drops and the strats behind how it is distributed. You could have highlight packages of sick plays to showcase your players talent. Detailed log analysis and discussions. Team composition and boss strat breakdowns. Casters could give updates like "for those of you just joining us, here is where the race stands". Unfortunately some casters treat it as their own personal podcast and the race is sometimes barely mentioned for hours. When I tune in and all I hear is casters talking about food for over 30minutes I tune out again. I believe there is so much potential for e-sports casting to grow.

[@xdman117]

Awesome race, loved watching both teams go at it. As a echo fan I love how bliz dealt with the exploit.

[@dennyahh]

Didn't looked at, hoping the content team covers the gold spent on the race. Always interesting to see the numbers on how much was spent and on what.

[@bbeas89]

I also randomly met @maximum at that same LCS finals in Houston in 2022. Not sure if anyone else there recognized him, but he seemed surprised that he was recognized at a non-wow event.

[@Carnables]

If I were to hazard a guess at why Liquid won by so much this race, it would be that they just seemed more relaxed. Or rather, they just had amazing mental the entire raid. Obviously being ahead can put you at ease, and as they kept increasing that lead daily. But more than that, they just seemed to be having a lot of fun. So idk, having fun is OP I think?

[@evamuhlhause]

Liquid was clearly on top form and the best guild in this race, congratulations.

[@northik5045]

I love the Dratnos & Tettles dynamic! Was nice to have them together again!

[@csworst09]

W for Max splitting with guild on subs

[@lostheboss7938]

Best RFW ive ever seen! lets go liquid!

[@movntn]

Does anyone have a link to the dash interview max mentioned here?

[@ssn016]

First of all, congratulations on your WFK. One thing I'm curious about is what the computer specs were used for this raid.

[@larissaious2641]

hmmmmmmm... I dunno. Seeing wowprogress ranks after a few resets makes my tummy warm because whether I look at realm first progress or world first progress, after a couple of weeks it shows you who’s got it figured out. I felt the same during cataclysm phase 1 and then firelands, and I felt the same during nyalotha.

[@CounTeRAiMBoT]

Anyone know if Scripe/Echo have done something similar to this video, eg, talking about the race and things that happened before/during/after etc.

[@thrashshorts1703]

i dont think he'll do, only wuen they win i think

[@quinlantravis]

I'm surprised people are just now waking up to Dratnos being the GOAT. That dude has been the best in every race for years now.

[@JohnGrossenbacher4Statehouse]

On the fired up situation, I said the same thing on Naguuras video, if it's on the tool tip, it's not an exploit.

[@billyy7848]

are you restarted or just fkn stupid?

[@evananthony4506]

If it was not an exploit, why did he intentionally try to hide his actions and rework his UI to make it look "legit"?

[@JohnGrossenbacher4Statehouse]

@@evananthony4506 max explains this, it is because he knew the uninformed community would rage and they would have to deal with that. but it was not an exploit, it was following the tool tip. the race to world first is really not understood by the general player base. its the top .001 percent. Politics is the same people think they get it, but unless the run or are heavily involved its not the way they think it is.

[@evananthony4506]

@@JohnGrossenbacher4Statehouse max literally called it an exploit. Cope harder

[@MikeyJ232]

@@JohnGrossenbacher4Statehouse I understand the RWF very well, I’ve watched most of them but this was definitely an exploit. Just because the tooltip says one thing, does not mean this was an intended game mechanic purposely designed into the class. This is common sense… lol.

[@MikeyJ232]

I love how Max takes a jab at Asmongold while admitting Blizzard’s early tuning of Mythic is terrible. Who else does he think Blizzard is tuning the bosses for week 1-2?

[@bandenwesen]

Really warms my heart to hear what you're saying about Dratnos! Such a wonderful guy.

[@adarahhl4418]

Did Blizzard nerf bosses this tier like the last two? I feel like it benefits other guilds a lot.

[@mitchtheronin1469]

Whats the „exploiting rep“ thing he talked about?

[@thethanor]

AM I crazy? I could of sworn I watched this earlier this week. Did I catch a live stream of this or something?

[@kanor13]

This was streamed live

[@michaelhaverman710]

A bit off on the math on one part. NA had a 5 hour reset that EU didnt have. That doenst mean they didnt have a reset. They had the standard hour. So NA was 4 hours ahead instead of 2. Just an asterisk to a comment changes absolutely nothing about how it went.

[@Pokasquantas]

Method killed the boss with less pulls then Echo?

[@johndoee4964]

How many bugs did you guys use that didn't get detected? I have a sneaky suspicion about those bindings of bindings.

[@Omugaru]

The only person who for me comes close to Dratnos in terms of casting is Fatboss Alex. That guy has just the right voice, excitement and jokes for me. But Dratnos pulls ahead bigtime thanks to his game knowledge. Especially knowledge of playing at the top. Still, props to all casters. They are all amazing. Kinda wish I could join a cast crew, looks like a blast but I wouldn't even know how you get to a point like that.

[@JavierGarridoFCB]

Where is that wallpaper from?

[@ryanpower1291]

I do think another thing that helped viewership compared to last was it was the first raid of the xpac and I think general interest is higher at the start of any expansion. Not to take away from dratnos i loved dratnos in the cast, just trying to be fair

[@smagu]

To be slightly fair to Gingi (can't believe I'm typing this), didn't Driney (or perhaps someone else) tweet out stuff about the rep exploits and called public attention to it? I think it's more likely Gingi was simply employing those same tactics. Would've been nicer if both guilds had just kept it all private and spoken with Blizzard directly.

[@TheSilverwing999]

Except gingi always does this and causes drama regardless of the circumstance or how big or small an issue is. And the rep thing was an actual legitimate issue that had huge effects, whereas the splinter thing didn't even matter. Gingi is just an ass

[@philipadolfsson9991]

@@TheSilverwing999 Eh, the things given from the rep wouldn't be more than a 4%dmg increase for a player so technically the mage exploit or bug (whatever you wanna call it) was a bigger gain. Still think both driney and gingi were whining and should've just shut up and play and let blizz decide.

[@MrCyberMuffin]

​@TheSilverwing999 liquid also always does it, if echo does sth.

[@wallewall90]

i am the degen that plays 12 hours a day due to circumstances beyond my control it helps me with just thinking keep my reaction sharp

[@jonsmith6303]

Anyone who has actually watched Echo's streams the last few tiers knows the whole, they're the serious guild and Liquid is the jokey guild hasn't been true in forever. Echo messes around all the time, they just don't repeat the same 2 sayings the whole tier like Liquid. And they usually have someone say cut it out during a big pull and everyone does. But its still lighthearted jokey vibes most of the time.

[@bengilpin7238]

There’s no mystery why you guys won. Look at hockey, more shots on net = more goals. You guys machine gun pulling and being efficient was you guys putting so many more shots on net and it paid off.

[@matthew10906]

i agree with max about the stream numbers as a hunter main definitly woudl watch malarkey

[@butterypopcorrn]

Wait, Max does read youtube chat?...

[@Shewyeen]

PirateSoftware was one of the guys going right for Firedup when he heard about the focus target stuff. Wish he'd watch this but then again he'd probably not get it.

[@reinoldi1097]

42:51 ohh i see why the nerf warrior again, its not at the bottom yet 🤣

[@Sammysapphira]

The best aoe class in the game shouldn't also be one of the best single target

[@reinoldi1097]

@@Sammysapphira best AOE only in the 5 sec burst ...

[@markuslc1888]

how many pulls more would you have needed if nobody in the roster would have racechanged to the strongest race?

[@alib2374]

holy shit max looking handsome asf in this video

[@shunsha8606]

I love all the talk about the exploit and such. Meanwhile I think ZERO bosses died to it? And nothing was gained from it? Lmfao

[@Skwiddd]

No bosses died from it and it literally wasn’t even against the rules lol

[@looq5984]

Neither is multiboxing and people got banned for that lol. If u do something to intentionaly abuse a mechanic then obviously you can get suspended for that.​@@Skwiddd

[@fabachso9184]

Who cares if bosses died to it, they TRIED to kill the boss abusing an exploit.

[@Skwiddd]

@@looq5984 Blizzard does not ban for multiboxing, you just can't mirror controls. All of the RWF guys livestreamed themselves multiboxing during levelling week lol.

[@Skwiddd]

@@fabachso9184 Every single guild in the race tries to exploit lol. It wasn't against the rules and they didn't benefit from it. No harm, no foul.

[@Vikingeek]

Obviously this was filmed before the Echo kill, but was actually quite sad watching their kill, pretty much nobody was excited and I do think that they lost a lot of momentum and impetus knowing they'd lost. As for the "exploit", I saw several videos about it all saying that that bug had been reported in beta, so I'm largely of the opinion that if Blizzard knew about it and didn't fix it - then they're unofficially giving it the thumbs up until it is fixed if they don't outright say "we're aware of this and will come down hard on anyone abusing it" I'd quite like to see Blizzard sit down with the leaders of the top few guilds ahead of the next race and outright say "here are some examples of situations and these are the ramifications of what will happen should you take advantage of these exploits" - at the moment it is a bit chicken and egg, it's almost unfair to come down on players mid race if you've not done it before, it very well could cost a guild the entire race in a situation with little to no precident. But if the guilds were pre-warned "if you do xyz, that player will get a ban of duration X, and we will remove that bosses loot from the players" then I bet it'd clean up everything and hopefully leave less cause for "drama"

[@neruneri]

I swear there's been fringe situations of bugs turning into intended mechanics in class design before too. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I feel like that's happened.

[@bodaciusf]

If echo ever wins again just rip a 20 min ad break lol

[@balloonredd]

Why is he so big in the thumbnail.

[@Stupificationable123]

stay big W type shit

[@JamesFuston]

Because they had a chef on the team

[@joaquin5028]

That's just his aura

[@keithb6344]

@@joaquin5028back in my day KZbin took skill, now you just got auras on your thumbnails. 😊

[@Gitaikou]

because fuck walmart

[@pepperbag1]

i'm not pro camping but that camping take is crazy. our life is more different from camping now than it has ever been in any other moment in history, so the change of pace of camping is arguably more valuable and 'entertaining' than any time in history. it's a completely different muscle than the one you flex when doing something as complex and interactive as gaming. that's like arguing that no one will go out to dinner because it's so easy to heat up a frozen dinner at home

[@sparklefartzpwnt]

blizzard should NEVER ban anyone for something they just didnt fix. the players dont design the game we just play it. 99.9% of bugs get reported and blizzard does nothing about them, esp in a beta or ptr test.

[@Lidzzz]

The whole FiredUp thing was weird to me cause it definitely felt more "Clever use of Game Mechanics" than an actual exploit but people so up in arms

[@LoveOlsson98]

It was 100% an exploit, but not all exploits are equal and it got blown way out of proportions. Probably from it seeming like blizz was going to be stricter on punishing exploits this time around. Like people were talking about FiredUp like he'd kicked a dog or something.

[@phenxskyzz4195]

The thing is : they tryed to hide it ... And what dratnos and tettles were discusing it in the rtwf recap, you need to determine if this is is a bug or not => "do a radom player can be using it unintentionaly ?" the answer is no ; no one play the game with all the spell macro @main-focus + never targeting the boss until a certain point. Is it Blizzard mistake ? ofc yes Do rtwf players / staff are smart enought to understand it is not working the way it is supposed to (aka a bug) ? also yes, and they still used it Now on personnal opinion : i think that was realy stupid to use that concidering the climat over method/echo reput "call to ban" ...what i saw is just pure hypocrisy for me.

[@birdybird_]

@@phenxskyzz4195 I do this though and some classes have to do it for their openers because you will pull the boss?? Yes you could do this normally lmaooo

[@phenxskyzz4195]

@@birdybird_ for all your spells ? And anyways i don't see a situation where you need to specificly focus-target the boss but nerver target him ... describe me a situation like this. The only situation i could think of (and has been quicly patched) was when you could PI the mind bender with SP so you will need to target the mind bender but still want to cast at the boss. But even in this situation that was not worth it in dps and stayed not long, you woudn't do all the fight without targeting the boss a signe time

[@ShaiKappaElKappa]

Man, it was such a blatant exploit that they even tried to hide it via reworking UI and later removing his PoV from the stream. Not a huge exploit, but an exploit nonetheless and they knew it.

[@en2390]

crazy you’ve been using the same thumbnail for years

[@RonnyWho]

"in 15-20 years no one will be camping" holy shit that is the most disconnected, chronic gamer thing I've heard in awhile

[@Rotationneiji]

MVP? THDLock on that Surek Kill.

[@midkraft7279]

i mainly watch the echo stream during RWF (time and all that shit is a big factor here), but i must admit i hard left the echo stream when theey started playing music because it freaking sucks! another note, i do think the production quality were higher this tier than previous tier

[@gulbla4370]

Was the NA maintenance delayed by 5 hours each? Or was it planned for 2-3 and delayed by 2-3? If its the later you cant really say you "lost" 10 hours unless you are dumb and wake up and get to you computer hours before it even was planned to be up. Also, I dont really understand, if NA often have extended maintenances, why dont they plan for it ? Like stay up little longer the day before and sleep in a few hours?

[@thedon181818]

Is this really that hard for you to understand? It's not about sleep strategy it's purely about time difference between NA and EU servers coming up.

[@gulbla4370]

@@thedon181818 wtf are you talking about ? Max said in the video they had 2x 5 hours maintenance and basically the whole headstart was removed by that. My point is, if maintenance was extended by 2hours to 12PM PDT and if its true they lost 5hours, that means they were up ready to go before the servers even were supposed to be up and thats dumb. And if they plan that maintenance will always be extended by 2-3 hours then they can avoid it ever affecting them.

[@JoshCravers]

@@gulbla4370how is this hard for you to understand. Ten hours of maintenance means ten less hours the raid is available for NA. Sleep has nothing to do with it.

[@gulbla4370]

@@JoshCraversIf you sleep during those hours it doesnt matter, how hard is it for you to understand ?

[@thedon181818]

​@@gulbla4370It's hilarious you're still completely missing the point after multiple people pointed it out.

[@SatchaDahmi]

regarding the dratnos comments, He is top tier because the level of energy he brings he is always so high energy and keeps talking even when muted comms and not much going on. just casting a pull is one thing but keeping audience engaged in the downtime is so important and that is what dratnos did the most. Xyro brought a lot of knowledge and I like him a lot but the energy wasn't there in the slow times. Dratnos was a huge W and I tuned into probably 12ish hours of liquid stream every day while at work or just hanging about I had the stream in my ear. All the casters did well but Dratnos was the standout followed by Jak > Eiya for energy levels. Tettles was great as he had good insight to the race and fight mechanics and xyro was great for knowledge as well.

[@littlewild8067]

There is some RNG and I think y'all gotta a good pull and pulled it off. Not that you didn't play your asses off and its not deserved but i think it was just one of those close pulls and no one choked when RNG and everyone played well

[@Beansicus]

Eiya was good, ppl flamed her too much in TL chat

[@James_Johnson79]

Hot take on the rep bans vs "trinket exploit." Blizzard doesn't want players feeling like they need to do degen open-world bullshit, whereas they know that in the raid itself that most players when they get to an exploit/bugged boss that by the time general public gets there that the problem is fixed.

[@lovelywaz]

On that kill pull, it was probably something like this. Max: DoTs MOAR DoTs.... Max: Hit it like you MEAN it! Boss: 💀💀⚰⚰💀💀

[@jessejames9674]

The correct answer was we are going to disneyland!

[@Jester-86]

Weakauras where?

[@flynn6531]

3:30 Asmongold already had the take that he doesn't care about RWF because its tuned for show hahaha

[@CStoltz7]

“Asmongold will have a take two months from now…” Well that didn’t age well

[@ElandorGaming1]

@3:40 welcome to asmons layer lol

[@MikeyJ232]

He’s right though. RWF tuning is a real thing.

[@johndoee4964]

Didn't you just inadvertently 38:00 give a reason for why aug should've been brought to that fight. If they can ebon might the 40 stack arcane mage windows on the acolytes?

[@gogogadgetkat]

I think his other point about Aug counters this. Devoker is good AND easy to play. Aug is good BUT super difficult, so there isn't as much benefit to throwing a player on Aug for the end-tier boss in RWF when you can accomplish what you need to without it.

[@boneheadno]

On the topic of the bans, I don't think that it should rest on the player's shoulders to uphold the integrity of the game. That's on Blizzard. These bugs were reported in beta. If something was unintentional, it should have been fixed before the game went live. This is a race. It's foolish to get upset over people using whatever tools you give them to get ahead.

[@keithb6344]

Yeah no. If a sprinter discovers a new drug that makes them twice as fast but the Olympics don’t test for it, it’s still cheating. I don’t think the mage think was a big deal, but it’s not black/white situation.

[@jakewright1932]

@@keithb6344 Drugs aren't part of the game code though. This is a bad analogy.

[@boneheadno]

@@keithb6344 My outlook is mostly towards the rep bugs which were actually bugs. The mage unintended interaction was working exactly as the tooltip stated. That isn't a bug to me. If it was truly unintended then it should have been fixed. In a card game you often ask what a card does.The answer is exactly what is on the card. Read the card. The wording is very important. That's not a bug or even unintended. The wording of the tooltip seems very intentional to me.

[@QPoily]

@@boneheadno Except the moment you have to resort to very clearly unintended methods to activate it, you no longer abide by the "I'm just following what the tooltip says". The fact you had to hit the target by setting it as your focus target in order to do the exploit VERY clearly not only goes against the intended interaction of the talent, but it even goes against the intended interactions of the standard gameplay loop itself. Nobody, and I repeat; NOBODY, executes their rotation by setting their intended target as their focus target. That just does not happen, nor is it an intended game mechanic to execute your entire rotation through a focus target and then target the boss to activate a proc. All of this just sounds like people are being willfully obtuse and it's just super cringe to see. Mind you, this shit was absolutely inconsequential and all things considered, it isn't that big a deal. I'm only commenting on the rationale people are using to defend the behavior which is just so very clearly people intentionally feigning ignorance so they can deflect personal responsibility and lay full blame at another (Blizzard in this case). You all aren't this stupid.

[@boneheadno]

Focus macros have been a main part of the game for a long, long time. Also, people definitely do execute their full rotation on different targets other than their main target. I can easily find you examples in under a minute with AWC happening. People bind several iterations of the same ability to focus and arena frame 1-3. It happens. The game has evolved quite a bit, and focus macros are very common. There's no way that someone doesn't read that original tooltip and not think to use a focus macro. That's it's intention to me. Personally, I don't see how someone doesn't see that as the intended interaction. You say that surely we all arent this stupid, but I think the people who don't see this as the intended interaction are the ones that are lacking. If I give you a button and it comes with a note that says when you press this button "x" will happen. You press the button and "x" happens. I don't see how people can be upset that "x" happened when the button was pressed and that "x" wasn't the expected outcome.

[@Falzyker]

The problem with Nexus Princess is that it's a FFXIV Ultimate Dancing Boss in WoW with 2.5x people.

[@steel5897]

omg it did remind me of FFXIV, particularly some of the more screwed up tiers like 3.0, shit reminds me of Living Liquid with the tight positioning and insane damage check.

[@StrobeFireStudios]

liquid was ahead the entire tier. the other guilds must have felt so inadequate.

[@ashreen4330]

With how much shit Echo had to deal with behind scenes, they almost could catch up. This tier was just not meant to be for Echo. They will smoke them next time.

[@Ntwolf1220]

@@ashreen4330WHAT THE FK IS A KILOMETER 🇺🇸 🦅

[@johannavori8698]

I kinda don't agree with the casters of Liquid being better this tier. Could be LEC bias but Preach and Medic were really fun to listen/watch cast the RWF. Echo's was just kind of wipe where I felt they were chillin together in a house, whereas Liquid's was just on a stage, and between those, I'm choosing the comfy couch over a plastic chair

[@Xynth25]

Preach is consistently fantastic and Medic was an awesome get, but everyone else is a step down. Naguura is smart AF but seems like they just had her restate what someone else was saying most of the raid. Dratnos has been one of the best for years, he was a huge get for Liquid this time.

[@NanoLT]

Preach just complains about everything, he is insufferable, I'm happy you somehow manage to withstand him for more than 5 minutes.

[@Gitaikou]

Couldn't listen to M*dic for more than 5 minutes Hearing "Wace to wowld fiwst" every 12 seconds was like nails on a chalkboawd.

[@zzxxccvv01]

Preach is fucking insufferable

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

Gingi when he or his guildies cheat for the 100th time: 🤷😊 Gingi when FiredUp abuses a bug for 1 boss:🤬🤯😡🤬🤬

[@jeremiahfink9709]

Convenient that you exaggerate to make Echo look worse, and then refuse to call firedup's actions cheating. Pathetic

[@Aethermie]

Still not convinced how using an ability exactly as its tooltip says is a 'bug' abusing. It looks less like an exploit than fucking splits. Goddamn people are annoying these days. ALL the race is about getting the advantage of EVERYTHING. Exploit is in the very heart of it from the very beginning. In a game where hit a boss and make him disappear just to reset CDs is a normal thing, let me remind you.

[@uhqliss8537]

Abuses bug for 1 hour*

[@RhodesianSuperiority]

@@uhqliss8537 yea and for

[@talisredstar1543]

@@jeremiahfink9709 Echo did it too themselves. Started the hate, and if it was "cheating" Blizzard would of stepped in. Instead they fixed bug asap, and that was that. Stay small jeremy.

[@zirngibel3596]

You need that BAELT? 😂😂😂

[@FlustTV]

How is a 4% dps gain “basically nothing” when discussing an exploit yet small gains are infinitely important when discussing Aug vs. Dev And fwiw I have been a long time liquid fan and max twitch sub (or at least I was before I used the forbidden word spellslinger). I’m not a tribal echo fan. I just like to see fair competition

[@StrobeFireStudios]

wait hold up, people still listen to asmongold? hasn't he not played for like, 2 years or more now?

[@Jessica-JoshBelton]

Liquid deserved the win… they performed great. Liquid FTW

[@sLdHavoc]

Only a couple minutes in but I want to comment on the tuning...Sure we can say it is overtuned. To say only 5 guilds are past the 6th boss after 2 weeks is wild, but this is the pinnacle of challenge in the game. I'm sure this is a shitty point of view to some, since I will never be pushing Cutting Edge and am okay with that, but its not like it isn't possible. I think it really proves who the best of the best are if there are groups that are trying it but just can't do it. Might be a shit take since I don't participate in this level of content but if I couldn't complete a +10 mythic no matter how much I ran it, I wouldn't ask for it to be nerfed for me when many others can do it, and in this case this should be the most "prestigious" content you can complete.

[@boyr321]

Gingi is the bigest manchild ever. Just ignor what that guy says.

[@travisholcomb9203]

Concerning the "our chat vs your chat" thing, one thing I found particularly entertaining: When Liquid got RFW, I went over and was observing Echo's chat (b/c I'm weird like that). After seeing so many European and/or Echo fanboys complaining about "oh the NA gets a day head start" blah blah type of dumb comments, I merely stated in their chat [something to the effect of] "well, Echo has been stuck at the same percentage for over 2 days, meanwhile Liquid went from that percentage to close to dead in a single day. What's the argument?", and I got timed out by a mod. After my 10 minute timeout, I stated "Lol to mods that want to delete my message and time me out for merely stating facts about different guild's progression on a boss. Nothing toxic said, just clarifying/stating a counter-point to those that think that NA has some hidden advantage to being globally ahead in the time zones." I got timed out again. After laughing beyond measure, my last message was something to the extent of "clearly your mods can't handle even basic discourse, and I feel really bad for your community that supports this. GGs mods, keep being big mad." Shortly thereafter their (Echo's) channel switched to Sub-Only chat. LMAO

[@ashreen4330]

I used one joke in max channel and got permaed instantly. Dont pretend his mods are better. He literally bans anybody who says anything even slightly against NA.

[@kalibos]

​@@ashreen4330I told you "imma fuck ya burger buns and glaze ya donut" was inappropriate

[@LoveOlsson98]

I mean you do sound like an insufferable asshole judging by what you said you wrote so I 100% understand the mods banning you. Especially since you probably weren't the only person "just here to raise a discussion" they had to deal with.

[@ajkiser3424]

Gingi is just a cry baby

[@DanaEatstheWorld01]

gingi being banned has alot more ramifcations then u think, he cannot compete in the MDI if you have been banned by any means period.

[@itsbeenie]

This was brought up on liquids stream and they asked xzyronic about it and I think he said it's only like a 15 day period or something. You would have to ask him on his stream to clarify it but I remember him saying no one wouldn't be able to compete.

[@looq5984]

All of them can compete since they only got 4 day suspension

[@michaeljohnsinclair7144]

RWF mode would be a thing.

[@BIGSLOW.]

Look, either exploiting is allowed or it isn't. There is no line to draw here. I'm fine with y'all exploiting it's good fun to see what wild shit people come up with. Imo Blizzard should have said something regarding the stacks but it is what it is. Happy with the outcome of the race, absolutely stellar play from liquid - looking forward to the next one.

[@seifyk]

That timeline addon was kinda op. 6:51

[@sbsftw4232]

What

[@seifyk]

@@sbsftw4232 What

[@adityasihag4]

Max will go down as the best ever raid leader

[@ВиталийСозонов-ш3ш]

When he gets to number of WFs Scripe has maybe we can start considering it.

[@Beansicus]

Dratnos buff OP

[@HorusHeresy1982]

He can be so smug sometimes =P

[@Dasbeerboots]

Love ya Max, but L take on camping. Camping is awesome. It's also exploded in popularity since the pandemic. It's nearly impossible to get a campsite reservation in California. Like people are scalping reservations.

[@painfullyavarage4316]

I don’t love the climate around exploits being a finger pointing exercise. I’m a liquid fan but imo blizzard needed to have done something, even something like an hour long ban, just to show they are serious about enforcing stuff now. Pointing at each other doing somewhat exploity things doesn’t make the situation better and just because something happened in the past doesn’t mean that should be the precedent for the future. They could still maybe save the situation by issuing a PSA basically just saying “we know we messed up in the past but from now on just know we are gonna punish people who exploit. Don’t say we didn’t warn you” but as is it’s a pretty bad precedent to set that exploits are ok as long as they are technically working as intended despite weird/unnatural behaviour being required to produce them

[@AChopstix]

The exploit had existed since BETA man, the fact that Blizzard still hasn't fixed it was complete bullshit. At that point it's intended behavior.

[@TheSilverwing999]

You realize that this wasn't a ban worthy exploit right. It worked according to tooltip and liquid was in talks with blizzard telling them how they could fix it. A ban is super disproportionate to what actually happened

[@cronosdimitri4584]

😂 post logs u do NOT play this game

[@ВиталийСозонов-ш3ш]

Completely agree, Firedup should have gotten a day long symbolical ban just as a warning to all potential future exploiters.

[@LoveOlsson98]

@@AChopstix The time between something being found out and something being fixed means nothing for how intended said thing is. It probably got pushed way down the list of priorities because it required such weird gameplay patterns which weren't likely to become relevant during normal play. Having to rebind all abilities and intentionally not target the only hostile target in the entire room makes that clear enough. You need to realize that the tooltip isn't the game code or even literally what the ability does. It is a interpretation by a human, who sometimes misses to add every single possible way the ability is supposed to interact with every other system in the game. That being said blizz needs to be much clearer for what their intentions are around these things. They banned for the rep exploit sending the message they would go harder on exploits. Then they don't ban this exploit, which to be fair is a much smaller exploit compared to the rep one. What exploits are ban worthy? There seems to be a line but we don't know where it goes. The best would probably be to do what @painfullyavarage4316 proposed and just come out with a statement and say "all players who exploit unintended game mechanics in the RWF from now on will receive a ban" and then go from there. As it stands it makes the most sense for RWF guilds to use all of these exploits whenever they can since they aren't punished for it. This isn't me saying FiredUp or Liquid are bad people for doing this. They'd be stupid not to use everything they can to their advantage with things as they are.

[@ryanchristenson1059]

I wonder if the mental/sleep tax due to bans actually impacted things more than we know

[@Wand422]

Didnt they lose multiple core players as well? I heard Zaelia got canceled and I remember hearing about tension after last race

[@TheSilverwing999]

Not much. You can do the calc yourself

[@BirdmanG07]

Camping does in fact suck.

[@_Travey]

Damn liquid demolished the other guilds. Not even close Also the liquid casters were top tier. So fun to watch

[@sealteamsesh8742]

Echo would have done exactly what firedup did if they figured it out before you did. Them getting all salty over it and trying to make out like he's a scumbag cheater is insane

[@Jessica-JoshBelton]

The truth is Gingi and echo are sore losers they can’t take a loss and have good sportsmanship about it

[@Painchiller]

I remember you, if liquid loses next tier and max does several streams looking passive aggressive for excuses.

[@CanyonManGuy]

@@Painchilleryou’re out of touch if you think Max being upset over losing is the same as Gingi actively slandering an entire guild saying they don’t deserve the win.

[@kafaen2]

Blaming tribalism and being uninformed for thinking imfiredup exploited is ceirtanly a take

[@scottdaastol]

Yo