Radosław Sikorski: The Munk Debate - The Russia Ukraine War, Toronto, 12.05.2022

[@47morlock]

Sikirski is the only one on the stage that actually understands russia. I wonder why

[@Blanka1100]

Because he is Polish.

[@vaasdaas9587]

He is delusional.

[@47morlock]

@vaasdaas9587 please explain. What exactly did he say was delusional?

[@kristianhorslund4941]

@@47morlockhe makes good points, don’t get me wrong, but he lacks credibility as he was among those responsible, for the extensive “reset” between Russia and the west. Indeed this was a policy which was widely supported under the Obama administration, so no wonder he sought to exercise same foreign policy in regard to Russia - but his views lack consistency in terms of his political record. Others in Poland, such as the deceased Lech Kaczyński, was warning about Russian imperialism, only to be laughed at and scoffed for “sabotaging” a strategic partnership. One can only wonder if he did not pay the highest price, for his unwavering stance..

[@47morlock]

@@kristianhorslund4941 diplomacy🤷‍♀ Sometimes you have to make a deal just to prove to others that your opponent isn't making it in good fait.

[@matthewmekonnen6587]

Do as we say and NOT as we do seems Michael's position..

[@dexterr3txed664]

A Hippo named Chrissy

[@shari6063]

And he clearly stated the American diplomats lie. Lex Friedman just did a great podcast with Oliver Stone on Russia and Ukraine. He talked a lot about Kennedy.

[@shari6063]

@Jon Little I definitely misunderstood you! 😂

[@elliottcovert3796]

It pains me that our foreign policy bureaucracy is filled with people as petty, dumb, and willfully ignorant as McFaul. There are precious few figures like Jack Matlock or George Kennan in the current iteration of the American diplomatic elite.

[@PeterXiao1]

He's in fact an imperialist

[@janusztracz542]

Brawo Panie Radosławie, przejechał się Pan po nich jak po burej suce

[@kevinmcinerney1959]

I can't think of a better set of participants to discuss this issue at this time than the two most prominent neo-realists and the two most prominent Putin skeptics. Either directly or indirectly the Mearsheimer school and the McFaul school have been sniping at each other since Russian aggression against Ukraine began to escalate. We need to hear these alternative viewpoints articulated and challenged. Well done Munk for making this happen. Very interesting that there are so many comments in Polish here.

[@TorianTammas]

Amusingly this is no topic in Europe as we see the war of aggression on our borders. We know we are next if we don't stop Putin Today.

[@dipthongthathongthongthong9691]

@@TorianTammas What country are you in? Using "Europe" broadly is a bit lazy my friend. Will Putin invade Ireland? How about Greece? You really think Putin wants to try to manage insurgencies and more conventional war in perpetuity when he has natural resources you need to buy from him? Sorry, there's no evidence he wants to "conquer" Europe. Mearsheimer's correct here.

[@Rai2M]

@@TorianTammas Moldova-Kazakstan-Georgia are way more possible targets (i just hope you're not from one of these countries). But i do believe in Ukraine and ukrainians, though i'm from Russia myself.

[@argon8908]

​@@Rai2M there is no proof at all that Russia wants to completely get those countries. If NATO minded its own business what's happening in Ukraine or what happened in Georgia wouldn't have happened. Russia had literally one request: no NATO expansion to the east. But the west knew exactly what it was doing when they kept expanding. You would think that at least Russian people would understand this, but it seems that some like you have already been brainwashed by the west. you might as well renounce your Russian citizenship if you have it lol. In the future you would probably cheer as NATO invades and destroys Russia as a country, take its resources, and kills many Russian civilians. At that point Russia as a country wouldn't exist anymore. NATO isnt just a "defensive" alliance, and If you think that isnt one of NATO ultimate goals you are delusional.

[@argon8908]

@@TorianTammas "We ArE NeXt" lol how clueless can you be. There is no proof that Putin wants to attack Poland, or other countries. Even Putin is not that stupid to attack a NATO country. His main request was no NATO expansion, but alas, your overlords in the USA want different. If anything, in the future, NATO will invade Russia to take its resources and destroy it as a country, so that Russia ceases to exist, and your country, like a good boy, will do what its US masters will say.

[@carrotwax]

I wish the debaters wouldn't resort to polemic and pathos. The side that uses facts in a calm manner gets my vote.

[@dreed7312]

Facts aren't reasoned thinking. A machine can spit out facts all day long.

[@hatrick3117]

Yeah, let's pretend that old farts have any chances in democracy with their logic and absence of humour

[@remremsrisri4953]

Unfortunately we have always chosen either the loudest, the funniest, the best spoken to win and lead. Regardless whether they actually know what they are doing or having all the facts. That's why we always fight.

[@elmercy4968]

I was also surprised why they scream like politicians though this is only a debate. Makes it hard to focus on what is said.

[@sylwesteradam759]

Emotions are human. Unless they insult each other, it's how it should be.

[@puhelimentili805]

McFaul: "we didn't kill him...😉 " Killary: "We came, We saw, He died... Cackle, cackle... "

[@gmw3083]

That's Mcfowls game. Ignoring reality as it suits. He basically says it outright. Real (whirled) diplomacy is all.... ll... eyes. But trust us.

[@gmw3083]

Then he says zelensky offered the neutral UKR option. Conveniently ignoring that Lloyd Austin and Anthony Blinken shut that option down immediately.

[@gmw3083]

@Jon Little zelensky was hand picked by kolimoivsky and Victoria Nuland to play his role.

[@khersey6167]

@@gmw3083 (embarrassed to be American) ;) NOT -- but disgusted by war hawk tools 👍 💚 🇺🇸 😎

[@gmw3083]

@@khersey6167 i already tummed up your comment but had no time to reply. Thought you might like to know your wirds are hidden from the thread. Might be the wird (wore). Not sure. There are many triggers for the censor bots. Spelunking wrong helps. If you log out and view a thread you will see which of your comments are visible to to the general assembly. Yt has created a personalized safe zone play pen for all of us. So considerate.

[@VincentVan2]

Kliknąłem w filmik niechcący, a przesłuchałem całą godzinę i czterdzieści dwie minuty. Tak, jak inni komentujący, chciałbym, aby w Polsce debaty były przeprowadzane z taką klasą

[@sandwind123456789]

Owszem debata dobra jednak pewne punkty nie wyjasnione. Np twierdzene ze nie bylo na tapecie wlaczanie Ukrainy do NATO wiec atak Rosjan pod takim pretekstem oraz negocjacje pokojowe i zakonczenie wojny zapewniajac ze Ukraina bedzie neutralna jest zupelnie bez sensu. Tymczasem mozna znalezc na necie artykul z Wall Street Journal. Cytuje Mr. Scholz made one last push for a settlement between Moscow and Kyiv. He told Mr. Zelensky in Munich on Feb. 19 that Ukraine should renounce its NATO aspirations and declare neutrality as part of a wider European security deal between the West and Russia.The pact would be signed by Mr. Putin and Mr. Biden, who would jointly guarantee Ukraine’s security. Mr. Zelensky said Mr. Putin couldn’t be trusted to uphold such an agreement and that most Ukrainians wanted to join NATO. Zeby znalezc artykul wystarczy wpisac w google Vladimir Putin’s 20-Year March to War wsj

[@michals6672]

@@sandwind123456789 przestań uprawiać ruską propagandę, Ukraina nie została zaproszona do NATO w 2008 roku i to był największy błąd, putin widząc to mógł spokojnie planować atak na Ukrainę, to go ośmieliło, opowiadanie, że atak na Ukrainę był spowodowany przez NATO i żeby zdenazyfikować Ukrainę to wierutne bzdury. Ukraińcy wiedzieli, że to walka z czasem i muszą jak najszybciej wejść do NATO zanim putin zaatakuje. niestety co się stało wszyscy widzimy. Oglądałem niedawno wywiad a Aleksandrem Kwaśniewskim, w którym opowiadał jak Borys Jelcyn tuż przed wejściem Polski do NATO prosił go, żeby tego nie robił i dawał Polsce pisemne gwarancje bezpieczeństwa, jeżeli Polska nie wejdzie do NATO. Kwaśniewski się tylko uśmiechnął, pisemne gwarancje bezpieczeństwa od Rosji???!!! wszyscy wiemy jak to by się dla Polski skończyło. Ukraina też dostała pisemne gwarancje bezpieczeństwa i nienaruszalności granic od Rosji po tym jak zgodziła się oddać swój arsenał jądrowy w 1994 roku, jak się to skończyło to wszyscy widzimy… miejmy nadzieje, że nie będzie mowy o żadnej neutralności Ukrainy po wojnie i Ukraina wejdzie do NATO.

[@sandwind123456789]

@@michals6672 Wytlumacz mi czemu uwazasz ze to co pisze Wall Street Journal (WSJ) to ruska propagana? Czyli Niemcy nie chcieli zarzegnac wojny proponujac Ukrainie neutralnosc gwarantowana przez USA i Rosje ale Ukraina to odrzucila czy nie? Jest tez wypowiedz doradcy prezydenta Ukrainy z marca 2019 roku ktory dokladnie mowi ze na 99% beda mieli duza wojne z Rosja z powodu ich przystepowania do NATO i ze Rosja musi zaatakowac zanim przystapia do NATO. Jak chce to ci znajde ta wypowiedz. No chyba ze Nie tylko WSJ ale nawet doradca prezydenta Ukrainy to ruski troll i ruska propaganda to nie bede szukal bo juz wszystko wiesz sam.

[@farzana6676]

I would like Poland to stop protecting the traitorous Hungarians in the EU and possibly NATO.

[@midi5581]

@@sandwind123456789 No czyli nie było zgody Niemców na włączenie UA do NATO. Do tego jakimś dziwnym trafem Finlandia i Szwecja jakoś dostają obietnice szybkiej procedury przyjęcia, RU nie bombarduje Helsinek, Putin twierdzi, że to nie zagrożenie. Tak więc jak widać, kwestia NATO to tylko pretekst, ruscy chcieli powtórzyć Czechosłowację 68, doktryna Breżniewa.

[@V12F1Demon]

This really shows that our Western audiences live in a bubble, enable their govts actions & collectively keep making the same mistakes having learnt nothing from the Iraq war let alone, Dubya's recent admission. The levels of disinformation around this war will be discussed in 10-20yrs time just as we now acknowledge the mistakes that led to the Iraq, Libyan, Syrian wars assuming, there's a world left standing.

[@joeroganpodfantasy42]

Everyone lives in a bubble in Russia too if we didn't there would be no unity and we would collapse.

[@V12F1Demon]

@@joeroganpodfantasy42 What bubble is that exactly?

[@johntogo8608]

@@V12F1Demon ..........The bubble of self righteousness.

[@miguelmachado3259]

Absolutely Right!

[@V12F1Demon]

@@thetshirtblog Be ignorant elsewhere or grow up.

[@ruslandukhnovskiy5694]

thank you mister Radoslaw. You said everything right. being a Ukrainian, who as well was in Euromaidan, the way you described all the story and your arguments are precisely correct. and I'm thankful. we would be more safe in trenches with the Poles rather than with those from the west Europe either ❤️🇵🇱🇺🇦

[@zbyszanna]

Tyle było mowy o ratowaniu ukraińskich żyć, ale czy im przyszło do głowy, żeby zapytać o to samych Ukraińców? Zachód nie wpycha Ukraińcom broni i nie wysyła ich na front, oni sami tego przecież chcą. Zasłanianie się troską o Ukraińców wydaje się mocno fałszywe.

[@bobzaba4842]

Nie. Zachod im tylko wczesniej odpowiednio wypral mozgi...

[@RoboStuk]

Oni gadają tak jakby nie słyszeli o aneksji Krymu, wojnie na Donbasie i innych działaniach Putina. To wygląda tak jakby nagle zauważyli, że coś się dzieje na Ukrainie i stwierdzili - ratunku, kończmy to, jest niebezpiecznie! Jakaś straszna ignorancja z tego bije i brak jakiegokolwiek zrozumienia sytuacji.

[@MrAniseable]

@@RoboStuk Możliwe, że te wszystkie leśne dziadki właśnie taką mają 'wiedzę' jak to przedstawiłeś

[@imagrandpa]

US is proving to Russia that Ukraine is a,ready a de facto state!

[@RZ-bw9vf]

@@RoboStuk Krym jest zapisany w historii ze dobry Chruszow podarowal Krym USRR w 1954 r jak rozliczamy prawde to o tym trzeba wspomnac , a jesli cofniemy sie dalej to Krym nie byl tez Rosyjski ,ale tez nie Ukrainski .

[@Jonas_Bro]

Widać, że Mearsheimer ciągle żyje w latach 80. Rosja nie jest żadną potęgą, ani tym bardziej mocarstwem. To kolos na glinianych nogach, którego populacja wymiera w zastraszającym tempie, a sama gospodarka jest mniejsza niż gospodarka wielu kilkukrotnie mniejszych krajów europejskich. Dlaczego ktoś miałby zgadzać się na ich irracjonalne żądania? Próbowano tego w latach 30 ubiegłego wieku żeby zapobiec wojnie i wszyscy wiemy jak to się skończyło.

[@zbyszanna]

Ja bym wręcz powiedział, że on nie tylko żyje w tych czasach, ale wręcz chce, żeby te czasy trwały. Być może to tylko takie moje odczucie, ale dla mnie to wygląda tak, jakby chciał powstrzymać zachód, żeby przypadkiem Putina nie obalił, bo się nagle świat zrobi dużo prostszy i zniknie jeden biegun.

[@bobzaba4842]

Kolos na glinianych nogach ktory siedzi na atomie i moze Europe i Ameryke zrownac z ziemia jak zostanie przyparty do muru..... Zagrajmy w ruska ruletke i przyprzyjmy go do muru...

[@Jonas_Bro]

@@bobzaba4842 Radzę poczytać o zjawisku "stability-instability paradox" i "nuclear peace". W skrócie, jeśli dwa wrogie sobie państwa (albo szerzej obozy polityczne) posiadają broń jądrową to groźba jej użycia drastycznie maleje.

[@GaneshGunaji]

Appeasement did work though. Chamberlain's appeasement bought Britain time to build up their military. They could never have fought Nazi Germany back then. They would have lost miserably, and it would have been worse for them. I'm not saying to blindly give in to Putin, but cutting a deal spares everyone a very costly and bloody war. If the terms are attractive enough for each side, it will outweigh the utility of the war itself.

[@Mish844]

@@zbyszanna chyba nawet nie zdajesz sobie sprawę jak bardzo masz rację z tym że on żyje w tych czasach - realiści geopolityczni bardzo ciężko trawią upadek ZSRR, bo w ich predykcjach, ten balans sił miał być podstawą pokoju i trwać literalnie setki lat. Po upadku muru berlińskiego sam Mearsheimer tak ciężko wciągał copium że zamiast przejść z tym do porządku dziennego i zacząć pracować nad nowym modelem predykcyjnym dla zmienionego układu sił w Europie, postanowił pisać postulaty abyśmy dalej utrzymywali układ warszawski, tylko po to żeby się jego model nie rozsypał. Fakt że to nie było w naszym interesie i byliśmy w pozycji żeby nie dawać tym idiotycznym pomysłom tlenu jest pochodną jego realizmu w którym jesteś albo mocarstwem albo żetonem pokerowym, który nie ma nic do gadania i to przeświadczenie jest podstawą czemu Mearsheimer jest tak lubiany przez ruskie onuce - z założenia, na poziomie doktrynalnym ma wylane w naszą sprawczość.

[@loco29456]

Świetna debata ! Brawo panie Ministrze Sikorski ! ✌️🫡

[@PolityczneLSD]

Świetne przemówienie. Chadosław Sikorski.

[@AbzAden]

I don’t like how other guys are screaming their point as if it would make em right kinda ruined the debate

[@suna173.6jm]

I was a bit on the fence about liberal hegemony and realism but Mcfaul's fascinating viewpoints just turned me more into a realist than I ever was. Thank god for Mearsheimer and Walt. Loved watching this debate and I'm gonna think about this for a long time!

[@spizganypywak7338]

fascinating because he was right in every point?

[@greenrosenz]

I think this war is 8 years old with at least 14,000 civilians killed before this conflict escalation.

[@fevgg]

most of them in Donbass in uncontrolled territory, more than 500 are children. Murdered by Ukrainian Nazi troops. Many of them under jewish president

[@Thanatos1982a]

ahem, nope - absolute majority of those 14000 people killed were combatants of both sides. For example, during the whole year of 2021, in total, 6 civilians in DNR were killed as a result of war (landmines included)

[@fevgg]

@@Thanatos1982a yes, from both side, but mostly were killed from DNR side. All childrened who were killed were only from DNR side

[@Thanatos1982a]

@@fevgg not really, that would be statistically impossible. For example, I just checked shelling of Mariupol in 2015 by Grad rockets and it killed 40 civilians, including two children.

[@fevgg]

@@Thanatos1982a you don't have any clue what you're talking about. Nazies shelled cities and killed civilians, LDNR responded to fortified areas. That the difference. Don't apoligize Nazies

[@asiap1089]

Three native speakers and Radek Sikorski ;) chapeau bas Your Excellency

[@SamPartyggg]

U.S. policy toward Iran has been a failure too: The war in Iraq enhanced Iran’s regional influence, and ratcheting up sanctions didn’t stop Tehran from acquiring the capacity to build a nuclear weapon if it ever decides to do so. Unfortunately, Trump abandoned the 2015 deal that shrank Iran’s enrichment capacity and stockpile of nuclear materials and extended its “breakout time,” and his administration subsequently threatened to sanction several U.S allies (all of them members of the “free world” by the way) if they stuck to the agreement (which had also been unanimously endorsed by the United Nations Security Council). And what was the end result of this brilliant demonstration of U.S. leadership? Iran is closer than ever to building a bomb, and the Biden administration has been unable to find a way back to the original deal.

[@Almoniification]

What you wrote is true if you assume US goals was to prevent Iranian nuclear programme. If you assume their goal was to sabotage any agreements and any attemps to build an agreement between Iran and other countries of Middle East or, let's say Israel, for example, I would argue US were exceptionally successive. They ruined any attemp to stabilize relations between Nothern and Sounthern Koreas and Japan in a same exact way. And nobody blames US for it. An outstanding victory, I would say.

[@delta0307]

So what if they have a bomb? Only US EU is allowed to have a bomb? If US stops threatening Iran maybe they wouldn't think about creating a bomb in the first place. US has bombed and wrecked both Iraq and Afghanistan both neighbors of Iran. They know if they don't have their own bomb, they will follow suit like Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. They know the only thing keeping US from invading them is their nuke. Same with Nokor

[@warbler1984]

But your own comment contradicts this. The sanctions brought them to the table to discuss nuclear treaty

[@jerzybognat1182]

Two pacyfist,przypominaja mi 1939 i wysilki Chamberlina z Angli.Pokoj za wszelka cene kosztem innych.Poddac wszystko by tylko byl pokoj.Debilne myslenie zza oceanu,P.Sikorski w najlepszym wydaniu.

[@bobzaba4842]

Dokladnie. Tez jestem za tym aby w putina walnac z grubej rury... Te jego atomki to zaslona dymna... Nie istnieja... A jak istnieja to jest zlom... A nawet jak nie wszystkie zlom to tylko kilka jest w stanie odpalic... A nawet jak je odpali to rosja bedzie zrownana z ziemia, a te kilka ruskich sarmatow co spadna na Polske i pare innych krajow europejskich to pestka...

[@BM-ur4je]

Radek PLUS McFaul który w 100% popiera dokładnie ta samą opinię. Jego wieloletnia staż jako ambasador USA do Rosji, biegła znajomość języka rosyjskiego oraz nie typowo praktyczne (a nie ściśle akademickie) podejście do całej sprawy wyróżnia go od większości tzw naukowców oraz "dyplomatów". Proszę spojrzeć na jego Twitter aby na bieżąco rozumieć jego b. cenne podejście. Stąd też względnie szybkie posunięcia USA w stosunku do Ukraini. McFaul od pierwszego dnia cisnął na "closing the skies".

[@klaudiagrob]

No wlasnie.

[@ronsonclinowski5649]

Wydaje się ze oni racjonalnie oceniają sytuacje, druga strona sprawia wrażenie jakby ta wojna na rękę właściwie była

[@wesluk2608]

How many countries were forced to join NATO? How many countries have joined Soviet Union or Russia voluntarily?

[@Bayonet1809]

Belarus has practically joined Russia, and is now little more than its puppet state while, China, India, South Africa and Brazil, (totalling over 40% of the world population) have all sided with Russia in this conflict, and have refused to disrupt their close economic ties. The idea of a country being forced to do something is not entirely black and white either; does Finland and Sweden joining NATO without holding a referendum mean the the populace are being forced into NATO?

[@wesluk2608]

@@vetrocomvetrocom9737 You probably learned this from Russia Z V news.

[@aar0n709]

Who cares? Not our problem.

[@FireOccator]

@@aar0n709 Russia invading Ukraine is everyone's problem.

[@oskar4404]

No one country joined soviet union, all was ocupied by force..

[@Liberty73_NA]

1:15:48 So basically Russia was justified (in their minds, anyway) in going to war in Ukraine. Thinkers knew that already, but it is nice to see a policymaker admit it. We are constantly lied to. Do you see it yet?

[@404Dannyboy]

No one starts a war they don't feel is justified. Hitler felt justified in France and Russia. Stalin felt justified in Poland. Japan felt justified in China. Just because you are justified in your mind does not at all mean that you are justified in reality.

[@nickbrodziak611]

@kızgın tosbağa EXACTLY!!

[@davidh3985]

@kızgın tosbağa For Afghanistan, I think it was to support the communist government which was fighting an insurgency in the 1980's. For Syria, to me it seemed like an attempt to keep Assad in power and commit war crimes against the civilian population. Any other whataboutisms you want to elaborate on?

[@arturganczarski500]

@kızgın tosbağa So what? How does it make Russia's war any better than the American wars?

[@AntonSobyanin]

@@arturganczarski500 Then maybe we can discuss sanctions against the United States and NATO countries? Oh, yes, you can't condemn yourself. After that, you have the audacity to teach someone morality. Hypocrites.

[@riki5733]

Seems that if you talk louder people should think you are smart and that you are telling the truth. Seems like a new concept, i should try it.

[@remremsrisri4953]

It's a thing with new democracies. The same kind of people in autocracies just adjusting to new norms. It will take a while before they get to be similar to older democracies like France or England or the US.

[@georgetsiklauri]

Point, by Michael McFaul, that "US didn't go along with NATO enlargement after Bucharest 2008" is simply wrong (or a purposeful lie). US, on the contrary, have been pushing this yet another enlargement, and who really stood up against, were Germany, the UK, and France.

[@kattyman6577]

Agreed. McFaul was fake.

[@mariajurgens9889]

If it is clear, that Ukraine will not be member of NATO, why not fix it in a treaty? Why there exists a treaty between USA and Ukraine what says USA will support Ukraine by entering NATO, ( "US - Ukraine Charter on Strategic Partnership" from November 2021)

[@marathonx3]

It is in the Ukrainian Constitution that they will join NATO.

[@elliottcovert3796]

The United States already broke its promise on NATO expansion multiple times since 1990. Russia's leaders had no reason to suspect that we wouldn't just reverse course on Ukrainian NATO membership when it became convenient to do so. My goodness, we saw Trump tear up the Iran nuclear deal simply because he didn't like it. "Trust us" is not going to be a persuasive argument when we behave like this.

[@annasavarino10]

Cause they want to spite the Russians. Thats all this is about in the end.

[@greenrosenz]

Because the Secretary General of Nato said it was non of Russis'xxs business. If I were Russian & Nato was ever increasing it's proximity I would definitely be concerned...hence Putin's rise in popularity.

[@alexbullet9165]

Because In NATO documents it says that NATO decides who can join and who can't. So if they agree to let Russia decide then it shows that NATO can be threatened into doing things and for a millitary alliance that's not a good thing.

[@alecfoster5542]

Debate starts at 2:35. You're welcome.

[@vadymdukhnych7870]

Thank you, Mr. Sikorski, for your position and your wisdom. We Ukrainians will remember this - I definitely will.

[@vadymdukhnych7870]

​@Leo A Have it, if you like. It hurts to read such words, but what am I suppose to do if you think like that. But again, there is no way to find out what you really think. Maybe you're just saying this wicked words without actually thinking that way. I'll just leave it there. And back to the point, for anyone who is interested, from what I see, where I'm now, what Sikorski is saying is very true. Good luck.

[@notastone4832]

if putin was not in power, Medvedev would be.. and hes MORE of a hawk these days

[@freddiepizerhall8324]

@Peter Facka Normally when authoritarian leaders first enter power they reform and seem democratic. Let’s not forget the west thought Russia was becoming liberal in Putins early days.

[@facelessgod-kg7xk]

@Peter Facka is that from western media? Is so, azov got evacuated to Siberia. Putin is respected by othet small countries who get mess up by NATO

[@youtubeuser206]

@Peter Facka forced to step down? Medvedev is still very much influential and in a position of power, leading the national security council

[@youtubeuser206]

@Peter Facka he was the prime minister until 2020 😂😂

[@arjan2777]

Or is the just more a hawk because that is what Putin wants? You have no idea and neither do I.

[@kuulig]

Rewelacyjna debata, gratulacje dla Pana Radosława Sikorskiego za wspaniałą wygraną i reprezentację Polskiej racji stanu.

[@sebastianduchowicz2902]

żartujesz?

[@mathew8978]

@@sebastianduchowicz2902 bardzo dobre mial argumenty w tej debacie Sikorski widac ze przekonal do swojej racji wiekszosc publicznosci wiec uwazam to za wielkie zwyciestwo i dobre reprezentowanie polskiej racji stanu

[@marisolbolivia9174]

Stephen and John, very smart and polite!!!

[@warbler1984]

"Neville Chamberlain, very smart and polite!!!"

[@teresaaljayyousi8447]

I wish they spoke more about the last 8 years.

[@jesusk1358]

Exactly. That's where the issue lies.

[@maryanchabursky9148]

If you want to understand the issue you would need to cover the last 500 years

[@trymi]

2024 and Radek Sikorski is again FM of Poland. A proper person in a proper place. ❤

[@awesomeiguy]

And everything Mearsheimer said is turning out to be true. Ukraine is badly losing.

[@marcinb4647]

@@awesomeiguy How is that 3 day war going for you, Ivan? Do you still believe what Putler tells you? And how did you like Ukrainian special operation in Kursk oblast 😆

[@georgine321]

Give up nothing. Russia get out of Ukraine, all of Ukraine.

[@leo19957]

Germany also gave a guarantee to enforce the Minsk agreements. Wonder how that turned out.

[@RasPutintheGreat]

UA did not respect it.

[@theodemirweltmann9673]

Germany cannot (and could not) give any guarantees for compliance with the Minsk agreements. Germany simply did not have the capacity to see that they were respected, it was an empty phrase I guess.

[@ferrariguy8278]

It's also funny how Russia practically wrote the thing, but got to waive their hands about not being a signatory to it while simultaneously blaming Ukraine for breaking it all while Russia continued to actively supply and keep the conflict going in the region.

[@leo19957]

@@ferrariguy8278 that's exactly what happened

[@RasPutintheGreat]

@@ferrariguy8278 but why signed it? Minsk 1&2 were the results of nato protecting their own people from certain death or capture esp in 2015 when UA and (some)NATO forces esp high ranking Germans. *Russia continues to actively supply and keep the conflict going. - what do you expect Russia supposed to do? Turn their backs on their own people? If they did not support or stop supporting ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine, they could have been murdered by Azov, UA and nato forces. I guess the loss of 14,000 people is not enough for you eh? And if UA respected the Minsk agreement on which they agreed and signed it, these could have been avoided but no! so look at them now. I have more sympathy with the AKs they used and being kicked by Chechens after they're killed in combat than UA's fighting forces.

[@johnlee-yo8jc]

This debate showed one thing - people are really stupid. I feel sorry for Prof Mearsheimer.

[@aleksandrekurdiani7224]

People are waking up tho. Growing support is recognisable in the world for anti-globalist ideas. Of course the collective west is not going to wake up, but the rest of the world is on the right side, and even in the west, there has been growing concern about the ideas that the globalists are advocating for.

[@muradlekov3679]

I'm appalled by how two populists playing on people's emotions changed the poles so radically in the span of practically one hour

[@marcintanski8549]

Yeah, I also feel sorry for stupid people

[@domerame5913]

don't feel sorry for the carreerist youtube academic spreading imperialist rhetoric for popularity

[@Larsemillarsen]

Great debate. It seems to me, the two parties are talking past each other - they simply seem to have completely different starting points: One side argues from how they believe the world IS and the other side argues from the point of how they want the world TO BE. One is more or less a political science point and the other one political point.

[@ubroc]

All sides agree that Russia's security interests are central but they don't agree on what their legitimate interests are. That's why they're talking past each other.

[@maryanchabursky9148]

Except that their belief about how the world IS doesn’t make any sense.

[@pistolpetetc]

@@maryanchabursky9148 It makes full sense.

[@maryanchabursky9148]

@@pistolpetetc no it doesn’t it pretends it is the 18th century’s with grand empires. This ignores the reality that smaller nations have a lot of say in the modern world.

[@pistolpetetc]

@@maryanchabursky9148 It does. In practice the world still follows the rules of Real Politique, the war in ukraine is a case in point.

[@golbysystem]

Brawo Panie Sikorski!!

[@8ace02]

If there´s ever going to be a Eurpean Union worth it´s name, I´d want Radek to be in charge of both foreign affairs and defence. Btw, I´m German. The sooner we realise that Poland economically and strategically is more important than France, Italy and Spain combined, the better it gets.

[@skullmaster6888]

@@8ace02As a Pole, I'm somewhat optimistic about Merz. What do you think?

[@8ace02]

@@skullmaster6888 At least Merz would listen to Sikorski, I guess. Sikorski nails it on every aspect imo.

[@D4NK1]

The same people that say it's ridiculous to expect a democratically elected leader in Ukraine to let a piece of his country go, think that the only road to peace in the Balkans is Serbia recognising Kosovo as independent because it's already a fait accompli. One rule for me and another rule for you

[@davidh3985]

Well if the democratically elected leader commits genocide against another ethnic group in his country, others are going to take issue with it. Especially after they failed to act in Rwanda and Srebrenica just a couple of years earlier. Your argument is limping pretty badly.

[@CyanideBtm]

Double standards

[@D4NK1]

@Peter Facka there's always "differences"

[@D4NK1]

@Peter Facka yes they are "significant differences". The same people that say Hungary isn't a democracy, think UK a literal kingdom with an unelected upper house is a democracy.the same people that say Putin is a lunatic for saying Russia is exceptional (which I've never heard) believe that a us president shouldn't be elected unless he believes in American exceptionalism...and so on and so on...but there's always "significant differences" in every situation isn't there?

[@D4NK1]

@Peter Facka please you can say whatever you want to me, just don't compare us (Serbs) to Poles. We have enough problems

[@abeaboud272]

FYI: Ukraine never "owned" the largest nuclear stockpile; those were always controlled by Moscow. East Germany and Poland had Soviet nuclear weapons at one point too, but those were also pulled out. This is like saying Turkey had to give up its nuclear weapons in 1962 when in fact those were US nuclear missiles stationed in Turkey as part of NATO, and the US removed them in exchange for pulling Soviet missiles out of Cuba. Also, Crimea - which is majority ethnic Russians - was "gifted" to Ukraine by Khrushchev in a controversial gesture to the Ukrainian Soviet. Those populations and their territories will be annexed by Russia, and the Ukrainian ultra-nationalists have given Russia the perfect reasons to do so.

[@racheddar]

This is not entirely correct. As Mearsheimer pointed out in his 1993 piece, the Ukrainians were developing a native command and control system for use of those warheads, and perhaps even have the capability to use some of them at short notice.

[@elliottcovert3796]

Exactly. All of the actual know-how on how to use those weapons was with Russian members of the Soviet armed forces.

[@mmeade9402]

@@elliottcovert3796 So the Ukrainians had the technical means to build the missiles(they were designed and manufactured in Dnipro) but they couldnt figure out how to reprogram the launch software or how to sit in the silo control room and turn the two keys and push the two buttons simultaneously. Interesting theory....

[@Kealen69]

The difference is that Ukraine was ther center of Soviet missile design, the ships produced in Ukrainian shipyards were kept, the nuclear missiles made in Ukraine and stationed in Ukraine were kept. The command and control system was indeed Moscow based, the accord was to prevent Ukraine from building their own nuclear command system and bringing those nukes online again.

[@edvsilas8281]

Abe Aboud . As to actually who owns the nukes in Ukraine isn't relevant ,we all know that these nuke are US owned. Also, if I lived in the Donbas under constant bombing by the Ukraine for 8 years and 14,000 Donbas casualties, I'd most certainly would prefer annexation /protection by Russia.

[@psramachandran7932]

Superb and high quality debate

[@bogdanbaudis4099]

Having been hammering on the Mearsheimer for so long I have to admit that at least once he might have been correct. That was when he said that Ukraine should not have given up its nuclear arsenal. However this only looks good today, at the time the events were taking place it was not that clear what exactly Ukraine would become ... it might have ended like Belarus but with NUKES ...

[@northstar1060]

nukes in the hands of the nazis --no thanks

[@happyhappynuts]

1000% agree

[@tiagomagalhaes7032]

Doubt it would have gone that way, two reasons: 1 - if Ukraine hadn't given their nuclear weapons then US wouldn't have supported them, so no joining NATO, which would mean less ties to Europe, because Poland and Baltic nations would never feel safe, and there would have probably been an escalation of NATO presence in East Europe. 2 - if they hadn't then I don't know if th Friendship treaty with Russia would ever came forward...please remember, Ukraine and Russia were very close to conflict because of Crimea, as the Russians felt it was their territory and should be given back (Crimean population agreed btw). Yeltsin ended up accepting Crimea under Ukraine sovereignity after Ukraine accepted that Russia would keep 80% of the Black Sea fleet + 20 year land lease of Sevastapol, but that agreement was dependant on Ukraine also giving it's nukes. So I don't know what would have happened then... As for Mearsheimer, he's more times right than wrong, the problem is that his views do not correlate with what we wish the world to be. We want the world to be peaceful and harmony and no stupid wars or conflict....but reality is that there are many interests in conflict, both political and economic. US is heavily dependant on selling weapons, it's a multi-billion per year industry for them, and they need it to keep building and researching more weapons...BUT if everyone in the world was nice and no conflict, then those weapons would be useless, which would lead to the destruction of US military industry which is supposed to employ around 3-4 million people...so that's not going to happen, US needs wars all over the world. This is what realism view is about, accepting the reality over what we wish.

[@bogdanbaudis4099]

@@tiagomagalhaes7032 Well, more or less correct except: "(Crimean population agreed btw" - the problem is that the "Crimean population" included Russian military personnel of the Black Fleet with their families (which were also "extended" for the purpose of the polls) while at the same time EXCLUDING people who were REMOVED from Crimea by Soviet Union (Tatars and others) "he's more times right than wrong, the problem is that his views do not correlate with what we wish the world to be." This is a little of reverse logic: He claims "realism" and people disagree only because realism is always less desired than dreams. This is not necessarily true, some people dream of things which would horrify most other people. Moreover his theory does NOT predict or explain FACTS! He says that "great powers" act "rationally" but then Nazi Germany elects to fill railroad cars with Jews to send them to death camps while at the same time there is a shortage of ammunition on the Eastern Front! "Rational" my ass ...

[@tiagomagalhaes7032]

@@bogdanbaudis4099 I was actually talking about Crimea in 1994, when Yuriy Meshkov won elections with 74% under a platform of wanting independance to rejoin Russia...and then Ukranians sent special forces to capture him, and since then Crimeans have always supported politicians that want to rejoin Russia. As for the Tatars, it would be too long of a conversation, as indigineous people being forced out of their lands by stronger forces is kinda an usual thing that happen, even in western countries it still happens today. He never said that Great Powers act rationally, he says that they act in according to what they perceive are their security interests and that it does not matter if it is rationally or not, they simply act...and if proven wrong, they will simply double down. His theory does explain much of what happens, because we can look at several decisions made by Great Powers over the years, that led to disastreous results, because they believed it was the only way forward for their own survival...now obviously his views are not 100% correct, but no one is. I'll maintain my statement, he's more times right than wrong. Nazi Germans were not acting rationally as they killed everyone they saw sub-human, but it was part of their security interests...by creating a sub-human enemy, that "endangers our way of life", the Nazis unified a country, because they had to cleanse the world of that threat. Which is a very similar way of view that many US and European citiziens have been sharing towards Muslim nations...we're all very happy to take Ukranians in Europe, but let's not forget about the millions of North Africa and Middle East refugees that are stuck in refugee camps, that were put there as direct action of NATO military interventions in the region... So let's not pretend we are that much better than Nazis, we might not have concentration camps, but we are willing to accept millions living in sub-human conditions because of actions we took, people who their best choice of surviving is to attempt crossing the Mediterranean in a situation where it's estimated that 30% die...those are the odds they rather try, and we do not care. This is what realism is about...it's looking at the world and see the consequences of our actions, instead of just dreaming that we are some sort of perfect society that does no wrong.

[@tadeuszmurgrabia4578]

W czasie podpisywanie ugody perejasławskiej Moskwiczanie i Ukraińcy potrzebowali tłumacza. To były już inne języki.

[@alh6255]

Język ukraiński pozostał językiem rusińskim, opartym m in. na dialekcie połtawskim (okolice dzisiejszych rejonów "kozackich"), ale nie tylko, bo w ogromnej mierze także na dialektach zachodnich Rusinów (jak choćby dialekty Polesia czy karpackie) i na językach zachodniosłowiańskich (głównie na polskim, ale i słowackim). Kontakt z zachodniosłowiańskimi językami (szczególnie z językiem plemion lechickich, inaczej Lędzian) od niepamiętnych czasów wpływał na ukraińskie słownictwo i gramatykę. Rosyjski z kolei także częściowo wywodzi sie z dialektów połtawskich, ale to bardzo dawne czasy. Potem ogromny wpływ wywarły na niego języki ugrofińskie i tatarskie (ugrofińskie zwłaszcza na mowę chłopów, a tatarskie - szlachty). Co więcej, Księstwo Moskiewskie przyjęło prawosławie nie z Kijowa, ale "z rąk" Bułgarii i Serbii, a wraz z tym, ogromną liczbę słownictwa południowosłowiańskiego. W cerkwi rosyjskiej używa się właśnie dlatego języka południowych Słowian (Cyryla i Metodego), a w cerkwi białoruskiej i ukraińskiej - staro-cerkiewno-słowiańskiego. W efekcie w rosyjskim już w XIV w. pozostało stosunkowo niewiele słów rusińskich, w porównaniu z ukraińskim czy białoruskim (albo wręcz językami dawnej Rusi Kijowskiej, do których zaliczał sie także język Nowogrodu Wielkiego). Bajania Putina o tym, że Ukraińcy i Rosjanie to jeden naród (bo 1000 lat temu były razem w luźnym związku wielu księstw, zwanym Rusią Kijowską) to wierutna bzdura :)

[@tadeuszmurgrabia4578]

@@alh6255 Dziękuję za świetne wyjaśnienie.

[@ЕлизаветкаБогданова]

@@alh6255 ваши фантастические истории очень занимательны. Жюль Верн не мог бы с вами соперничать 😂 Особенно про разные народы между русскими и украинцами.

[@arjan2777]

@@ЕлизаветкаБогдановаAh no Muscovites are just Asian hordes who have no legitimate interests in the countries west of them. Go back behind the Urals and bother us no more. Really if you think that being part of the same multi ethnic principality a millennium ago has any bearing on ethnicity now you have no understanding of history at all

[@piotrkost6850]

Not long ago on "stand up for Ukraine" conference in Warsaw a young Ukrainian refugee activist said that they knew that the war was coming because the systems put the economy and money above the human. So maybe that's this "elephant in the room" and not much of an issue between democracy and autocracy in the 1st place. (don't they have the same "elephant" on both sides)

[@sashagrey2984]

I'd like to know a place currently existing where money is not put above the human.

[@warbler1984]

What are you talking about? One fatuous bint saying something doesn't make ut true. They didn't know the way was coming. They were shockingly badly prepared, Kyivs bomb shelters were not stocked and were locked up. Zelenskiy was poorly prepped

[@ChannelMath]

here's an interesting exercise: pretend this entire debate is about the USA (since everything fits perfectly)

[@hatrick3117]

oh yes, that"Iraq peoples republic" that we all forgot of

[@dreed7312]

Pretend it's about your mother

[@elliottcovert3796]

The US is an extremely aggressive power within our sphere of influence. Ask Latin America about that.

[@teddybearmonster]

Then you need to also pretend this debate is happening inside Russia. Can you do that?

[@tomasznowak2016]

Russia and the USA are completely similar. The same values, freedoms and living standard. Who would notice the differences ?

[@greatgalaxy2118]

Dear Sikorski, Dobrie Dien, Please Take Note: 1) India was the jewel in the British crown and yet the British didnt handover India in a Graceful Manner, on the contrary it was totally in a DISGRACE, CHAOTIC MANNER, dividing 1 country into 3 i.e. Pakistan later on Bangaldesh. The result of division of India by Britain led the worlds largest human EXODUS i.e people Criss-Crossing India and Pakistan ca 25 million in 1947 (imagine how much would have the number been in presernt time).Sadly ill handover killed a couple of Millions of innocent civilians. 2) The handover of India was due to the AHIMSA/SATYA GRAHA,(Gandhism), Quit India Movement, miltiple Swatantra Sangram activities, And was not by the British Compassion- Dzieki "May Peace Prevail in the conflict zone"

[@feorh1919]

the majority of former crown colonies are now on fire

[@brygadasfm]

Why have you greeted Mr. Sikorski with "good day" in Russian?

[@dexterr3txed664]

@@brygadasfm "dobry dzień", "dobryy den'"... close enough for a non-speaker of both languages, don't you think (which I am not either as well)? It's obvious that Great Galaxy is Desi.

[@greenrosenz]

Mountbatten rushed the Indian/Pakistan independance because it was thought that there would even be more deaths if it were dragged out- even so, yes millions died & were displaced.

[@davidh3985]

Great, another Indian that blames the British for their problems, doesn't sound very productive. How about you try to sort out your problems with the muslims instead?

[@mkj1951]

The important thing to note here is you can win debates by lying.

[@lehunzawellnesslongevityce3643]

Sadly believing more of the lies and not the truth.

[@mojoomla]

It shows the intellectual level and maturity of the audience that it chooses to be influenced by the war mongerers even when the stakes are as high as the possibility of global nuclear war !

[@shari6063]

Nice.

[@DianelosGeorgoudis]

Emotions are stronger than facts. And I was impressed with how the emotionals kept repeating claims the realists had just disproved. If you just keep repeating a lie no matter what, people will tend to believe it.

[@ShammuaMekonnen]

Yeah, both former Politicians were lying.

[@byttlejuice145]

Good debate. I didn’t want to listen to some point of views, but I am glad I got through it. I feel even perhaps. I was hoping some would mention the Donbas conflict in more detail with relation to this war.

[@TorianTammas]

Yes it started with an illegal Russian invasion snd occupation of Ukrainian territory and the forming of Putin puppet regimes in the occupied territories.

[@50kjy]

Yes....the Donbas conflict that began in 2014....and the killing of many Russian speaking Ukranians.

[@notastone4832]

@Jon Little no.. it was igor strelkov lol.. hes not too popular in the kremlin because of it.. spetznas.. chechen war veteran.. took it into his own hands with some other veterans and started taking the territory that became the DPR and LPR.. fun fact: some of the riot police from the maidan helped with that process..

[@50kjy]

@Jon Little Most things are a matter of perspective. Some would argue that Putin provoked the conflict in 2014, perhaps Putin did. Others would argue differently that it began with the Maidan uprising when Ukrainian govt decided not to sign an agreement with EU and chose to sign with Russia. All I can do as an independent thinker...is listen to all the perspectives, which of course I expect contains propangada and hyperbole. No one is innocent...and there is no good guy in this story...that I believe.

[@sylwiatime]

@@50kjy How are they two different perspectives? It began with Putin telling Ukrainian president not to sign an agreement with EU and sign one with Russia instead, an exclusive one at that. Since the president was in Putin's pocket he agreed. That led to Maidan because the guy had just sold out millions of young Ukrainians' lives to Putin, and that led to the president running away to Russia. Seeing that he'd just lost his leverage, Putin invaded Crimea and Donbas and cut gas supplies to Ukraine. And how no one is innocent? Are the Ukrainians who wanted to have a chance at a decent life guilty?

[@raykad8720]

we are living in a big bubble,name it NA and it appears to me the most of the audience think and act that we are safe for ever after. in contrast in my mind, War will come to us when we are willing to spend our money for it.

[@edvsilas8281]

Ray Kad. "War will come to us when we are willing to spend money on it." Well, not just money but lots of money is being spent on this war to the utter exclusion of anything else. The west continues to poke the bear in every conceivable way possible and yet the bear stands. But if one day the bears decides to finally react ,everyone will feel that reaction without exception. And my sympathy will lie with the bear.

[@connorkenway09]

Better to be paying for the defense of a soveiregn nation than paying for the destruction of one.

[@sylwiatime]

@@edvsilas8281 The bear doesn't stand. It tosses around mindlessly.

[@edvsilas8281]

@@sylwiatime Does this bear seem mindless to you? It seems to know what it's doing. The west seems mindless at this point.

[@sylwiatime]

@@edvsilas8281 Yes, Russia behaves in a totally mindless way and Russians are going to pay the price for decades.

[@handwerp]

Despite of the entertainment nature, this debate is still the more rational discour in the West. Pitty that the audience sided with the "Fight Until the Last Ukrainian" party.

[@fevgg]

It was Stalin's mistake to let nazi alive. We should dispose all Ukrainian Nazies

[@hatrick3117]

There is no alternative, after war crimes Ukrainians wount give anything, it might be logical from a side but to give Russia anything after starting the war with the dumbest arguments in history will mean only a couple years of ceasefire

[@Cheesy-t1h]

So the result of the debate is people prefer all out war against Russia until they destroy Ukraine or themselves over peace talks, what sort of people would choose this path!

[@TM97531O]

Ukrainians are choosing to fight for freedom, democracy and liberty. What are you going to do about it? Americans are not dying in Ukraine and we are not asking them. They did die in Afganistan. Ukraine is not Afganistan, we will not surrender, our leader did not flee next day. Ukraine does not want to be part of Putin's regime.

[@midi5581]

Ukrainians fight for themselves when Russia ignored diplomatic efforts, you can give them weapons to defend or watch them die or get enslaved (like East block after WW2). What sort of people want them to surrender against their will?

[@Cheesy-t1h]

@@midi5581 - Enslaved? Hardly, they're just trying to stop the slaughter in Donbas

[@Cheesy-t1h]

@@TM97531O - Why the draft then?

[@mahssahazfi5956]

It’s a tactic to vote contrary to your belief in the first round and then vote for what you actually believe in the final round so that your side wins. I don’t think many people get into a debate on such grave implications without preconceived opinions. I certainly wouldn’t go to a debate to be persuaded I’ll go to see my side win! I don’t know maybe I’m unlike 88% of the people 😁

[@beesplaining1882]

If only security interests were as simple as just "being invaded". Imagine how few wars America would have started if that were the case.

[@jackoh5134]

That is a great point. Unfortunately John and Steve didn't point out this conceptual shift.

[@beesplaining1882]

@@jackoh5134 its a typical straw man argument. The con side used a few of them in this debate.

[@ronparks8875]

@@jackoh5134 It's only my opinion but I lean towards Walt and Mearsheimer. The other side did seem like they put up a good argument though. But in the end to back a heavily armed nuclear power into a corner is really a very risky thing to do. Appeasing Hitler and being wrong is completely different from being wrong about Putin. There may be no second chance.

[@dipthongthathongthongthong9691]

@@ronparks8875 Quite shocking how so many seem willing to March forward with this assortment of neocons from various countries; with the US leading the way. Given the debacles in the Middle East over the last three decades, you’d think people would be more skeptical of their motives.

[@samuelskinner7704]

@@ronparks8875 The bigger issue with the appeasement argument is war changed. Getting Austria and Czechoslovakia increased Germany's ability to wage war. Gaining Ukraine or all the post Soviet Republics isn't going to change the situation for Russia in a full scale war with the US. Conventional forces engage, losing side launches, nuclear exchange occurs. It only comes up because thinking is not as valuable as labeling things double plus ungood.

[@patrykmikosz8810]

Świetna debata

[@emissary23]

Why even assume that Putin is saying truth and not lying. Look what he does not what he said...

[@RoboStuk]

Delusional, naive, not understanding this part of the world, measuring Putin with western measures. All of the above.

[@jibbyjabs]

The American professors live in the past, in the present and future they just have no answers or plan so they delude themselves. McFaul is annoying but he at least seems authentic next to the opposite and radek is nothing but pure sense and truth. Great advocates for democracy on the part of radek and mcfaul. Real shame mersheimer didn't acknowledge salient points made

[@Imbalanxd]

In that case why believe literally any participants in this crisis? Absolutely none of them are trustworthy, the American's least of all.

[@jibbyjabs]

@@Imbalanxd oh Jesus give me a break you're on KZbin exercising free speech because of America. Get a grip..I'm in a neutral country and these kind of statements are not even a weak strawman argument it is legitimate logical fallacy and circular paranoia puked put online without a degree of consideration. Learn the complex history. We constantly appeased russia..not one country in Europe will do this anymore, I think but for that the USA would want to, but not even biden who was clearly desperate to avoid a war after the rather unceremoniously pull out of a certain territory last autumn, but there is no option left on the table to avoid invasions across Europe. You have to acknowledge ignorance here - we do know more.than the Eastern European countries about Russian intent - clearly. They said this would happen years ago - the USA and Western nations were not. This isn't a USA led proxy war it is something that no one wanted but now that putin kicked it off no one is willing to back down. And they shouldn't. Everyone is fed up of him terrorising, land grabbing and thinking he can redefine borders. He is an old autocratic blob with a failed nation and failed economy with a last gasp of air has made a fatal error most crucially for his own legacy

[@Imbalanxd]

@@jibbyjabs I'm exercising my freedom of speech because I have nothing to say that the United States would consider substantive. Julian Assanges current situation makes you immediately and unequivocally incorrect in your estimation of America's stance on free speech. Make another post excluding it's mention if you wish to be taken seriously.

[@savitropicalhardwood2344]

I have heard the opening statements, I do not agree that past mistakes should relieve Russia from the root cause of Chechnya, Georgia, Crimea, the Donbas and now the Ukraine War. It is about real estate and rights to control trade and resources. The concept of security is always rooted in MONEY and CONTROL.

[@mikhailmalakhov9967]

You do not believe that American military and political presence in all the countries where it currently, including Ukraine is about MONEY AND CONTROL? You believe it is about the democracy as they keep saying? And if you dont fall into that trap of "spreading democracy" then why would you deny Russia the right for control in a neighboring country? I know that most people here would accuse me of whataboutism, but whataboutism is how american judicial system works!

[@felipearbustopotd]

06:58 Why appease the invader. Hitler was appeased and we know how that ended. Why repeat history? Great debate. Thank you for uploading and sharing.

[@vicpetrograd]

except 2022 Russia is not Nazi Germany and Putin is not Hitler. This is a WW1 situation, not WW2

[@kladblok2729]

Thinking that this war is about anything else than putins hunger for power is just plain wrong. It is a second Hitler.

[@siod4]

Jako wyborca PiSu gratuluję Panie Radosławie rozsądnych i moim zdaniem trafnych uwag!

[@internetowywichrzyciel6971]

co jak co, ale w stosunku do Rosji od 300 lat zdecydowana większość polaków ma to samo zdanie.

[@arturganczarski500]

@@internetowywichrzyciel6971 I słusznie.

[@ROUNDTOP3]

Great lesson!

[@miklosgergely2356]

Nothing will end, this is just the beginning!

[@wyldtalk9688]

Sikorski...All emotion, little self-control... what a drama queen 👑. Poland really has become Americanized.

[@JozefKonradPlata]

Świetna debata. Raczej nie sympatyzuję z Radkiem Sikorskim i jego partią polityczną, ale zgadzam się z nim tutaj w 200%! Gdyby takie debaty też u nas były w Polsce... Żyło by nam się sto razy lepiej!

[@beasnoil3139]

aż się przypomniala stara debata między Kaczyńskim a Tuskiem...byli w stanie że sobą porozmawiać na spokojnie.

[@monikakacprzak4721]

Sikorski to i PiS zaliczył. Był tam szefem MON, w PO był ministrem spraw zagranicznych przez wiele lat. Jest doświadczonym politykiem.

[@MR-G-Rod]

Radoslaw and Michael selling that snake oil. John Mearsheimer is a national treasure and should be a household name in America.

[@Teaspun]

McFaul is a lightweight and a hothead. All emotion and little logic, could barely stop himself from interrupting. And they sent *this* guy to Russia?? Looking at the caliber of Western diplomats surrounding this issue it is little wonder we are where we are.

[@lg2813]

exactly hes a clown

[@marcintanski8549]

No logic? Mershmaier and Walt were saying "russia only wanted a promise of NATO not accepteling more member" Sikorski and him are telling him that this was EXTACTLY what they received. Mentioning when and where. From NATO and UA and they are still arguing that this never happened. Meaning that they are rejecting FACTS. ruSSia still invaded Xd WTF is wrong with them?

[@AB-ce8sw]

Bardzo dobra debata, dużo świetnych argumentów z obu stron. Warto będzie wrócić do tej rozmowy za 2 lata.

[@50kjy]

Yes

[@jackoh5134]

Hope the world still exists by then.

[@conorwhite2066]

Yep I am 50/50 at the end of it

[@Anthrax6989]

@@jackoh5134 If world will exist, we for sure lose it after China double down on Taiwan, just a matter of time. If West would go full ham in Ukraine it would scare China but now China - US war is inevitable considering Chinese nationalism. they see that West prefers to stay out of big conflicts and will try to use it in their interests.

[@SamPartyggg]

🟡🟡The US top rogue state in the world 🌎 U.S. policy toward Iran has been a failure too: The war in Iraq enhanced Iran’s regional influence, and ratcheting up sanctions didn’t stop Tehran from acquiring the capacity to build a nuclear weapon if it ever decides to do so. Unfortunately, Trump abandoned the 2015 deal that shrank Iran’s enrichment capacity and stockpile of nuclear materials and extended its “breakout time,” and his administration subsequently threatened to sanction several U.S allies (all of them members of the “free world” by the way) if they stuck to the agreement (which had also been unanimously endorsed by the United Nations Security Council). And what was the end result of this brilliant demonstration of U.S. leadership? Iran is closer than ever to building a bomb, and the Biden administration has been unable to find a way back to the original deal.

[@tokajileo5928]

imagine you are beaten by English nationalist in Scotland if you utter scottish/galeic words or put/pin/hold scottish flag. That is what happened with Hungarians living in west ukraine (who were cut from their mother country in 1920 by Treaty of Trianon). I live 50 miles form Ukraine border and we know. there is even a law, you can check, which forbids in school to use your own language in school. If you use/pin/waive Hungarian flag there you are beaten until you bleed. Same applies for Russians there. But you in the west media bubble do not hear these. The Minsk agreement was to assure these rights but Ukraine ignored it with the support of the west. Zelensky has a multi million euro palace in Tuscana, Italy, he has had it even before he became president. Where do you think that money came from? His wealth is estimated 1,5 billion USD. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world and is far from being a democracy Russia cannot be beaten only talks give peace but USA does not want it. Even if Ukraine wins back all territories, what is guarantee Russia will not go back some months later? Nothing. Ukraine is in ruins, the economy is bankrupted, the people fled, those who stayed are in life lasting war shock. The war does not seem to end soon. There is no winner in this. The solution is to respect the concern of Russia and for Ukraine to respect minority rights. The beneficiaries of the war are USA and China. USA gas 4x more expensive than Russian, makes EU/Germany uncompetitive, end of EU economy. EU/UK will crush due to incompetent leaders who think a long term stable peace and prosperity in Europe is possible without or by "beating" Russia (whatever it means) and a strong European/German economy based on cheap Russian gas scares the hell out of the USA. Prospect of Ukraine joining NATO, NATO expansion and the oppression of minorities in ukraine led to this. This is the west paying the cost of freedom. the west decided to pay the »cost of freedom«, so pin the ukrainian flag onto your shirt and enjoy the western style of living while it lasts.

[@brazenzebra]

What an excellent debate! It's always a good idea to hear powerful arguments from both sides of an issue. Thank you so much for recording this debate and presenting it on KZbin.

[@trumanhw]

Intellectually dishonest is excellent ?? McFaul is up there pretending there are no NAZIS !??? WTF ? Why did Zelensky say he had to "put any agreements to a vote" in order to approve them? He's talking about the NAZIS. Pretending there wasn't a COUP !?? Really ?? How exactly did Victoria Nuland magically pick who'd be the leader ..? And conspirators chat logs to satisfy US requirements to kill more people so US ceases acknowledging Yanukovych admin.

[@lilpain8883]

@@trumanhw Wow it's very hard for a US politician to work out who will likely take a position. I guess there was a coup in the UK considering we all knew who would be PM of the UK before she recently resigned, or that most people knew Rishi Sunak would take the position after her I guess that means there was underhandings going on right?

[@frankxu7418]

Sometimes, general people just voted with their buttons. As a matter of fact, professor John was the only person suggested Ukraine keeping the nuke long time ago. That’s a person with a smart brain. It was a great debate.

[@markk4162]

Well, he changed since then

[@charlesscott4722]

@@markk4162 He didn't. Ukraine no longer has nukes. That means it's survival strategy should be different, and that's being neutral

[@annasavarino10]

He was right before, he is right now.

[@davidh3985]

@@annasavarino10 Yeah, before Maersheimer said appeasement doesn't work. He was right then and that is still right.

[@yobama8424]

@@charlesscott4722 clearly not considering the fact they got invaded in 2014 before of any NATO talk.

[@xvnbm]

Screaming wins the audience instead of good arguments, no surprises here.

[@tomeknaumann1338]

Ludzka potrzeba konfirmacji własnych, wcześniejszych poglądów jest silna jak stal. Nawet w sytuacji gdy rzeczywistość krzyczy Mersheimerowi w ucho "You were wrong!" on dalej jest skłonny przeinaczać słowa Putina dla podparcia swojej tezy. Co gorsza im człowiek starszy, tym ta ludzka słabość tylko się umacnia.

[@andrewareva4605]

Mearsheimer predicted that there would be a war in Ukraine when all dismissed it as fantastical. His ideas are reflects reality and his prediction that continuing this war and ignoring Russia will destroy Ukraine is more than likely. Sikorski's belief that Ukraine can push the Russians out and Russia can have a regime change and bring about a "real' democracy is a neoliberal fantasy that has failed repeatedly with the most recent failure of making a vibrant democracy in Afghanistan.

[@TorianTammas]

Mearsheimer lives in his fantasy bubble in which he ignores reality.

[@ansemakova]

Where he wasn’t right? When he said Ukraine should keep the nuclear weapons?

[@Mish844]

@@ansemakova "Where he wasn’t right?" In the famous concept that this war is the fault of west

[@ansemakova]

@@Mish844 and? Don’t you agree with that?

[@fastacker2]

No mention of the Minsk accords? No mention of Ukraine shelling the Russian speaking citizens in Donbas for the last 8 years? Still, it was an interesting debate. Especially John who is the master of foerign affairs.

[@davidh3985]

Minsk accords? You mean the French/German peace treaty on Russian terms so that they could continue doing business as usual with Russia? I see you drank a ton of the russian propaganda coolaid of the donbass. How about you mention the downing of MH17 if you want to get into details?

[@connorkenway09]

Stop preaching russian bullshit propaganda.

[@VA-mm6pk]

You overdosed on russia today.

[@theBaka9]

@Peter Facka please listen carefully to what you are saying. You say that shelling of citizens is unacceptable, we can agree on that. Yet shelling of peaceful ctizen has continued for 8 years in Donetsk and Luhansk. Exactly what WE are against. There is something of a meme going around in Russia, it goes something like "where have you been those 8 years?", but this is absolutely understandable - those matters are complicated and very hard to comprehend and act against. Ukraine forces in 8 years have killed, lets assume what you say is the truth, half of what Russian forces have killed in those 3 months of basically same people(geographically). Yet somehow this is OK for Ukraine to do that, because I don't see an backlash in your message towards Ukraine goverment. Please clear that up for me. Is there a quota for killed people to become a bloody dictator? Or can a democratically elected goverment justify killing of its own citizens? Can they do that to Crimea as well, since, from Ukraine PoV, this is still Ukraine territory and they can do whatever they please with their citizens?

[@KBDRecords]

@@theBaka9 there was no war in eastern Ukraine until Russia invaded and supported the separatist there. The UN report takes up wrong doings on both sides. As far as I see it Russia is to blame here. And you don’t agree. So how can it end? Apparently with one side loosing the war. How can one make agreement with a state that lies all time, Russia, and sez one thing and then do the other. You don’t agree on that either. So here we are.

[@joostandhisband9648]

If the US doesn't allow Canada it's freedom the US would have a very big problem with Europe as well

[@amirtawfik7495]

Cant believe the nonsense of McFaul, Sikorsky My vote is for Mearsheimer, Walt ✌️

[@nicholasjohnson778]

Yeah, Putin has gotten a raw deal in the media; we all know NATO poses an existential threat to Russia. Doesn’t everyone recognize that Putin didn’t have to make up a long list of strange rationales for invading… no, he just needed to point out the threat from NATO to his people, who of course worried about NATO on a daily basis. With his well prepared military and the vast majority of the public willing to counter this clear threat… it’s only a matter time before the Ukrainians wished they had cut a deal while it was still possible. Realists… they love their theory so much, they’ll conjure up any excuse to make it relevant.

[@RedXlV]

That's because you're a shill for Russia.

[@amirtawfik7495]

@@RedXlV No, i am not…. Far from it, but I prefer reality rather than fantasy when it comes to people lives & future of all mankind. I prefer be more fair, unbiased and listen to all sides claims so then to support real peace. Know that propaganda methods can be used by any and from both sides (east/west) Some of the propaganda principles are to act like a charming hero that argue in loud voice, smirk on others speeches, use emotional spiritual narratives, use public speculations as solid facts, exaggerate or skip facts to support them. I saw some of that in McFaul and Sikorsky

[@marcintanski8549]

@@amirtawfik7495 "reality" maybe in putin's world

[@MrAniseable]

Piękna debata pokazująca oba obozy

[@kleinweichkleinweich]

my national security interest is that Russia is not at Poland's eastern border

[@cookml]

If you look at the map, if not Russia it would be China or North Korea. Think again. :) another solution to this problem is to have German-Russian border.

[@catharinepenrith5285]

"provide more weapons to ukraine to end war" The debate should have ended right there. How does ukraine pay for all these weapons ? with hryvnia ? no its same old historical trick being played out to gain RESOURCES AND INFLUENCE across the globe

[@youdontneedtoknowwhoiam9612]

@Peter Facka The soviet debt was paid for. What are you talking about?

[@youdontneedtoknowwhoiam9612]

@Peter Facka While repayment of the interest-free loans was required after the end of the war under the act, in practice the U.S. did not expect to be repaid by the USSR after the war. The U.S. received $2M in reverse Lend-Lease from the USSR. This was mostly in the form of landing, servicing, and refueling of transport aircraft; some industrial machinery and rare minerals were sent to the U.S. The U.S. asked for $1.3B at the cessation of hostilities to settle the debt, but was only offered $170M by the USSR. The dispute remained unresolved until 1972, when the U.S. accepted an offer from the USSR to repay $722M linked to grain shipments from the U.S., with the remainder being written off. During the war the USSR provided an unknown number of shipments of rare minerals to the US Treasury as a form of cashless repayment of Lend-Lease. This was agreed upon before the signing of the first protocol on 1 October 1941 and extension of credit. Some of these shipments were intercepted by the Germans. In May 1942, the HMS Edinburgh was sunk while carrying 4.5 tonnes of Soviet gold intended for the U.S. Treasury. This gold was salvaged in 1981 and 1986.[citation needed] In June 1942, the SS Port Nicholson was sunk en route from Halifax, Canada to New York, allegedly with Soviet platinum, gold, and industrial diamonds aboard.[67] However, none of this cargo has been salvaged, and no documentation of it has been produced.

[@rezonaut]

Yeah, more likely we should let it bleed, and wait for our turn, just like in 1939.

[@richardhastings5860]

Well argued from both sides,but Stop the war! Whatever it takes.

[@ukaszgostynski1284]

"Peace for any price" policy of the Western Countries was the very reason why WW2 started. We cannot force the Ukrainians to yield in any way to satisfy a paranoid dictator's view of his nation's security interests. You cannot reason with someone while he is holding a gun against your head, threatening to blow your brains out.

[@grzegorzmazurowski7593]

So be first, smart one. Give Putin your own house and family as slaves. Maybe he will accept and end the war. ;-)

[@McRingil]

Ok, ale Sikorski sam mówił w czasie negocjacji w 2014, że Ukraińcy muszą przystać na warunki rosyjskie, bo będą mieli czołgi w Kijowie.

[@jms1hbv]

Wszystko sie zmienilo od 2014. To zupelnie inny kraj i wojsko. Nikt juz nie mysli o Ukrainie jako o czesci Rosji.

[@internetwanderer9053]

Porównujesz dwie różne sytuacje geopolityczne i militarne, mimo że dotyczą tego samego kraju.

[@McRingil]

@@internetwanderer9053 Agresja rosyjska była bezpośrednią reakcją na zmianę władzy w 2014, teraz doszło do eskalacji.

[@ThePawcios]

@@McRingil Zmianę władzy? Masz na myśl uniezaleznienie? Dobrze ze na obalenie komuny w Polsce tak nie zareagowała bo bys teraz w Ru.necie pisal komentarze :P

[@McRingil]

@@ThePawcios no tak było, w 2014 od razu po stracie władzy przez Janukowycza Rosja zaatakowała Krym i Donbas.

[@V4zz33]

How do you have debate with pathological liars and agenda driven people?

[@Asterlibra]

That's how normal debate looks like. Thank you for the video. In my personal view, both of spoken positions have a rationale behind. Both lines of arguments are solid. The answer to the question is not simple "yes" or "no", but in exact concerns that should be recognized. I disagree with Prof. Mearsheimer's statement that there are only two lines of western behavior. Those lines are extremes. Russian security concerns are too vaguely defined in this discussion. Moreover, the right solution in case of Ukraine doesn't need to coincise with dealing with Russia's actions in other directions. This is complex issue, and I doubt that there is any simple answer.

[@goshky]

the whole premise of debate is a smoke screen. Because right there are no and will be no diplomatic talks, and when they come, of course there will be compromise taking SOME Russian concerns into account, but not all. Meersheimer's real position is "lets stop arming Ukraine and ask Putin nicely to stop" which is stupid. Regardless of what you see as tenable position after the war, that will be acceptable for both sides, the only way to reach the stage of talks is to stop Russia on the battlefield. Not one of them asked himself what Ukrainians think about continuing the war. If they want to fight, then west has only two options - arm them so they can defend themselves or not arm them and let their sacrifice be wasted.

[@Asterlibra]

​@@goshky There has never been a case in history where ordinary people were asked to start or continue a war. To say "Ukrainians were not asked" makes no sense. Were the Vietnamese asked? Were the Iraqi people asked? Were the Georgians asked in 2008? Of course, no one was asked, so it's silly to make such an argument. As I understood, prof. Mearsheimer's real position is different -- "arming Ukraine had lead to beginning of the war and respecting Russian security concerns is the first step to stop it". And I agree with this statement. However, that doesn't mean that the West should give up everything. The things are stalemating. If you are going to negotiations, then the other side can conclude that your position is weak. The Russians will include more and more terms to the agreement. If you choose to keep Ukraine arming, then you're basically suggesting that diplomacy should be thrown in the trash and that the war should be fought until someone win or left without pants. In my humble opinion, the West certainly can stop the war anytime if the West just will.

[@zhoubaidinh403]

We are in an ideal position...an opportunity to finish Russia once and for all without sacrificing a single American life...hell, Ukranians are slaves like their brother the Russian....We would be derelict in our responsibility in do the Russian so we can do Chyner!....Lindsey Graham...

[@blogintonblakley2708]

McFaul admitted he'd lie when it suits him. Not sure why anyone should take him seriously after that.

[@ericmacrae6871]

When did he admitted he lied when it suits him?

[@warbler1984]

Ya know who is telling more lies than anyone...is the Russian state. Who could trust them...they must be defeated kn the battlefield

[@blogintonblakley2708]

@@warbler1984 Russia is winning, and there is nothing the West can do about it.

[@irahoppe3632]

Great to find both sides being given. Very unusual these days.

[@JL-vk1rs]

this was a great debate, thanks to all of you for putting it together. I wish this was the norm of political discussion

[@justgivemethetruth]

Except that most of the con side was based on attacking Mearsheimer, while the Pro side presented cold hard facts.

[@slavimo]

@@justgivemethetruth If you call Putin's words facts, you urgently need to do a brain MRI. That's a bad symptom indeed. Mearsheimer is a Russian tool for years.

[@firstone3289]

@@justgivemethetruth Mearsheimer presented only his fantasies.

[@justgivemethetruth]

@@firstone3289 Name one?

[@Andre-zd8ke]

@@justgivemethetruth The skimming over Ukraine’s right to choose its own future made his whole attribute a load of one-sided BS. The aggressor is Russia, not the Ukrainian or even NATO. The ‘interests’ of Russia are simply to establish a hegemony over more countries, more areas, and now its target is Ukraine. It’s a non-defensible interest and if successful won’t stop with Ukraine. Oh, and to use the nuclear threat as an argument to give into Russia’s demands is pathetic. If successful Russia will use that time and time again.

[@nickbrodziak611]

The end result just proves the saying: " no one else lost money underestimating the stupidity of the American people. And Canadians gave become just as ignorant

[@jibbyjabs]

Brilliant debate, what a treat to stumble upon whilst looking for Mearsheimers more recent views on the invasion

[@jibbyjabs]

And for what it's Worth, Radislaw is the winner of the debate hands down, just by stating the obvious..we just.dont have the option to appease anymore

[@BM-ur4je]

@@jibbyjabs ....and add Michael McFaul's position as well

[@magdaty1815]

pgh, what is brilliant about that? Wasn't Ukraine created by Russia? It was. Fact. Is it something unfamiliar (for example to USA) to expand own territory no matter what the locals of that territory say? Give me a break. Święte oburzenie. Ciągle nie takie dyskusje jakie można by prowadzić. Już mnie to na początku znudziło, bo nie jest to nic, czego byle klituś-bajduś w sekcjach komentarzy nie powtarza jak katarynka. Więc jak jest dalej o czymś mądrym to niech ktoś mi poda minutę, kiedy pada pytanie o taką sytuację - Część obywateli Ukrainy nie chciała już należeć do Ukrainy dlaczego to oni są źli vs Ukraina dobra, a gdy UPA nie chciało należeć do Polski to Polska była ta zła? W wielu krajach ludność jest mieszana. Gdyby tak nagle w USA kazali ludziom wybierać, zakazali amerykańskim Włochom mówić po włosku i zmusili do działania przeciw wszystkiemu co włoskie, a jakby ktoś nie chciał wybierać, nadal szanował swoje włoskie korzenie to byłby traktowany jak przestępca a wręcz gorzej jak przestępca? Ktoś coś? Jakieś debaty o tym? Bo już były takie sytuacje że tak właśnie kazano ludziom wybierać, opowiadać się za jedną ze stron nawet jak człowiek był po prostu bezbronnym mieszkańcem wsi, nie mającym nic wspólnego z polityką chcącym tylko pracować i w miarę po ludzku żyć - tak było gdy nazistowskie Niemcy kazały ludziom wybierać, gdy UPA kazało ludziom wybierać. To już było i teraz się powtarza.

[@jibbyjabs]

@@magdaty1815 by your logic rome and Greece owns all of your nation 😆 russia is going to learn the hard way why they shouldn't stand by a man who thinks he can redefine borders by massacring people. And China won't stand by, they are way too reliant on US and European trade.

[@greri88]

@@magdaty1815 No, Ukraine was not created by Russia. Fact.

[@akosasuke5128]

Imagine an American diplomat talking about morality

[@NotMe-bz9pl]

He would know better than all of us due to experience.

[@ovidiudraghici9941]

​@@NotMe-bz9pl pretty sure Ako was sarcastic, and rightfully so

[@NotMe-bz9pl]

@@ovidiudraghici9941 What makes you think I was not?

[@4637812648]

1:36:38 Sums up the whole debate: after one minute the audience laughs at Mearsheimer's ignorance of Russia and Putin. Russia's entire history is that of an imperial great power. Sikorski is Polish and knows that very well. So do many other nationalities living around Russia, and within Russia itself - Chechnya, Tatarstan, and 19 other colonies. Mearsheimer is popular with those who have axes to grind against America, and little else.

[@i_am_elle_gee6917]

Threatening a superpower is a risky business, but it's still a business where people make loads of money in exchange for the lives of both soldiers and civilians.

[@RedXlV]

Russia isn't a superpower.

[@abhi-yh3nc]

West will never agree that it's their provocation 😂

[@objectivistathlete]

Because it isn't.

[@abhi-yh3nc]

@@objectivistathlete that's what I was saying 🤭

[@thinkalternative6379]

People like Mr Sirkowski ruined the dream for a truly United EU

[@sergiuszzajac2109]

Szczerze, może debata i jest dla Amerykanów dobra, ale dla ludzi z Europy Środkowo-Wschodniej nie ma najmniejszego sensu. po 11:45 nie ma sensu tego słuchać. Skoro człowiek uważa, że Putin nie chce podbić Ukrainy, to trudno. XD Tak sobie chciał czołgami pojeździć wokół Kijowa oraz Zełeńskiego zabić dla zabawy. XDDD

[@murmur4498]

tak samo pomyślałem :D

[@sgill4833]

I'm surprised US involvement in the maidan revolution/coup was never brought up. Nor Lindsey Grahams speech to Ukrainian soldiers in 2016.

[@KrissowskiM]

That is because any sane and well informed person is aware there has been no involvement of US into Maidan...

[@johnbea5684]

The leaked phone call of Nuland says otherwise.

[@cbskwkdnslwhanznamdm2849]

@@johnbea5684 wow a diplomat has a preference on a political outcome. I guess everything that happened in Ukraine from 2010-14 is irrelevant because of that call. Either that or you brats are in this for virtue signaling therapy.

[@ohajohaha]

What coup? Yanukovych got scared and just flew away himself, the parliament then voted him out. That's it. If the Euromaidan was as violent as the russian media shows it then it wouldn't work, because for it to be successful it needed to appeal to everyone. Only young people can fight the police. It was a festival for the most part.

[@ActionableFreedom]

Interesting to note Radoslaw Sikorski; Yes, Poland was once a Russian colony. But so was it a German one and partly an Austrian one and even the swedes got quite deep politically with various relations taking the throne if my memory doesn´t fail me. Out of all these countries, the only country that Poland ever beat or to a large extent conquered was Russia. First much of it during the Polish Lithuanian CommonWealth and then during the Polish Soviet war. Why, perhaps Russia should be afraid of Poland and not the other way around. And as Mearsheimer said, the realities of today are different. Russia lacks the capability to conquer Poland. I know that probably nobody will see this, especially not Radoslaw, sadly. But his last closing arguments I quite liked and respect. Though one must ask him, are you willing to acknowledge the otherness of those ethnic Russians in the East of Ukraine that now more than ever do not want to and for all purposes can´t ever again become Ukranians? What are they to do when their language is relegated to second status despite being the majority language in the country? What are they to do when their parties are illegitimate? When their cities, just like Kiyiv and Lwov are being shelled and have been shelled for 8 years during the Donetsk conflict? I know that the referendums are illegal but it doesn´t make them fake or illegitimate. They reflect, although probably inflated, the legitimate will of those people there. How will an Ukranian "liberation" adress that will?" He mentioned Ireland. In the case of Ireland, a fifth of it is still British. That was the compromise. Could a fifth of Ukraine ever be Russian then?

[@puhelimentili805]

Is this the best that the pro-NATO crowd could come up with? Two placeholder imperial aparatchiks with a barrage of silly, incongruent arguments. Against Mearscheimer? What a joke.

[@gmw3083]

You see, the American goal is being accomplished. To destroy tyranny and promote liberty.

[@gmw3083]

This is why America and the west are digging their own graves. It's a process.

[@gmw3083]

Fxn yt sx

[@puhelimentili805]

@Leo A my first thought is that the results were fixed. Not unlike Eurovision.

[@remremsrisri4953]

@Jon Little I don't think so. And that isn't quite fair or polite. John's work is the more exposed than any of them. What more, else can we expect to hear. He has made his point for years and he's older than all of them. We can't expect him to be entertaining, pleasing the crowd, he doesn't know how. He's sticking by what he teaches.

[@vm4708]

Jhst one question to people that laughed at the idea that Putin is not imperialist. How many countries did he conquer in his 18 years or reign? Because for example in 2008 conflict in Georgia, Russia army was basically in Tbilisi, yet Georgian state still exists today as sovereign nation.

[@phenomenal325]

Facts don't matter to these people, either these people are emotional idealists, or they are bots. Which is which I am not sure, but facts and reason don't matter to them, They have a narrative and we are going over a very dangerous precipice because of their inability to get their heads out of their asses.

[@byttlejuice145]

You need to understand that there are ethnic Russians in some of these former USSR states. And so if countries like Ukraine and Georgia become pro western, these ethnic Russians feel they are being broken away from their motherland Russia, and in return start to fight for a break away. It doesn’t help if Russophobia starts running rampant in that country. That’s why Putin always says the break up of the USSR left about 24 million Russians out of the country.

[@loczyn]

Didn't the U.S. then threaten to fire missiles at Russia if they didn't back down? It was mentioned in docummentary - Putin: The New Tsar by Mikheil Saakashvili

[@phenomenal325]

@@loczyn lol no we did not threaten Russia with missiles over Georgia. Georgians got themselves into a bind because of their idiot president at the time and wanting to crush their separatist regions who've been in conflict with since the Soviet Union collapsed. What bush did was he told the Georgians to cut it out and that we are not coming to their aid.

[@ennuiennui7]

also, maybe it is just a coincidence, but US was heavily involved every time in those former USSR republics before Russia had to react with force...

[@cyberagent008]

Great job Mr. Sikorski and Mr. McFaul for winning the debate and the Munk School of Global Affairs for organizing it.

[@vivienmartin9661]

McFaul epitomizes the ignorant US blinkered class. Laughing my azof.

[@WookCarajo]

Chapeau bas Panie Radku!

[@flyflybaby2723]

34:11 The fact that the audience laughed at Mersheimer shows people don't buy his BS!

[@Swindonboy56]

Sikorski’s summing up nailed it. I was lucky enough to be involved in British trade missions to Poland, Hungary, Czech and Slovakia in the mid 1990s, their enthusiasm for democracy and trade after years of being under the Russian jackboot was palpable. John Mearsheimer’s assertion that Putin is not an imperialist is risible, of course he is. We know that he thinks the collapse of the USSR was a tragedy, that very same Russia that oppressed democracy and free speech in Mr. Sikorski’s country for decades. The initial attack on Kyiv was clearly an attempt by Putin to affect regime change, replace Zelensky with a Lukashenko clone. As regards the west arming Ukraine I would ask ‘what is the alternative’? ...as Mcfaul points out. Putin is a bully and at some point you have to stand up to bullies. As Napoleon said about war, 3 part out of 4 is moral, only one part is material...Ukraine have moral right on their side, they are fighting for freedom so the idea that Russia can defeat them and hold the country is ridiculous. I hope Ukraine can drive Russian troops out and restore at least the 2014 borders but I suspect the war will be a grinding stalemate that will eventually either force Putin to the table or preferably see him removed from power by an much needed internal coup.

[@jtothed8575]

Lol.. Moral right..

[@Swindonboy56]

@@jtothed8575 And your point is?

[@MarcS152]

"The initial attack on Kyiv was clearly an attempt by Putin to affect regime change, replace Zelensky with a Lukashenko clone" - of course what do you expect if this goverment wants to eliminate all russian from the country. "As regards the west arming Ukraine I would ask ‘what is the alternative’?" - not killing the pro-russian population in the east and giving them autonomy

[@Swindonboy56]

@@MarcS152 There is no evidence that the Zelensky regime wanted to eliminate Russians from Ukraine. The borders of Ukraine were set in 1991 with Russia part of that agreement. Was there a majority in the Donbas who wanted to be part of Russian Fed and not part of Ukraine? There is no evidence of that either, independent surveys showed most people were not bothered either way...now they are? The unprovoked Russian invasion has made them anti-Russian and only served to promote Ukrainian nationalism. Putin is the aggressor and the Russian army must and will be stopped.

[@elblunts6927]

What super power country has the moral background to proclaimed themselves heroes. This is just geopolitics failure and suffer we the ordinary people, sad situation. If only the sons and daughters of oligarchs fought wars, my heart and support goes out to the victims of war not their government.

[@sashagrey2984]

Well, you put a "like" on any victim you want, that wouldn't stop a single bullet.

[@elblunts6927]

@@sashagrey2984 Well, it's not about stopping the bullet it's about stopping the war mongers.

[@soniamaddalena5124]

We 're lying all the time !!!!!!!!!

[@johnkenney5939]

1:02.54 "I think Navalny is great" - Michael McFaul. This is very funny because Navalny has pretty much explicitedly stated that he opposes giving Crimea back to Russia.

[@feorh1919]

Lot's of people believe that if mr. Navalny comes to power then Crimea is going to be the least of Russia's troubles - the whole country would be bust in no time.

[@ansemakova]

Because crimean people could disagree with it and it can cause another war