Dr. Sally Riggs: How Understanding Shutdown Response Can Speed Up Long Covid Recovery

[@olestories]

This video is just pure gold. I am 1.5 years into the journey, and can relate a lot to what is being said. I am about 80% recovered at this point, and within the next year I hope I can also share my lessons from this journey on your channel. One thing that was a huge changing point for me was to block out any negative news about recovery not being possible, and exclusively only watching content of people getting better. Keep posting these incredible recovery stories Raelan 🙏

[@RaelanAgle]

Wow, Ole, I'm so happy for you! ❤️🔥 I'd be honored to share your recovery story. 🙏

[@FRL2445]

While the Safe and Sound Protocol is great, as a former client of Sally Riggs, I found that the SSP courses she sells are a bit predatory. I spent a lot of money on an SSP program from her to find it was significantly, and I mean significantly, cheaper elsewhere. I recommend SSP but based on my experience, I don’t recommend going through Sally. I mean no disrespect with this comment this is just something I wish I knew before entering her program.

[@kellyglennie]

Where did you find the other courses and were they very similar to Sally’s?

[@imunchienandalusia]

"do i just want to be on the couch for the rest of my life, that's the option if i don't put my nervous system first". - I really like that

[@rachaellh]

So interesting about being in a specific state to do brain retraining! I hadn’t heard this before.

[@sallyriggs465]

Neither had I Rachael until about 6 months ago. I did DNRS in April or May 2021 and it went no where. When I heard this it finally made so much sense to me!! Hence why I now tell everyone!

[@OnaWhim15]

This is the most on point and comprehensive description of what is actually happening with long covid and how to recover. I have found this same information having been well read on Polyvagal Theory prior to getting long covid. I have completed the safe and sound protocol and it is the thing that started my healing journey after 18 months of hospital staff blankly staring at me when I told them all their strategies were both unhelpful and against current research. The safe and sound protocol and nervous system work needs to be front and center in long covid clinics and in my experience it’s not even on their radar.

[@sallyriggs465]

So glad you had a great experience with the SSP too! and you are so right. I do a bit of public speaking to try and educate professionals but really there are SOOO many Long covid clinics now and they are the least receptive its ridiculous.

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

@OnaWhim15, I'm sure you'd love Sally's book. From my understanding, it has a lot of protocols that most Polyvagal Theory books do not touch on.

[@NexusCapital]

I agree with some of it, disagree with some of it. Every video I watch gives me one or two more pieces of my puzzle to take back and put into place. Keep up the great work.

[@joeblack7841]

With all due respect Dr Riggs hasn't fully recovered if she is still using crutches constantly and has her life built around making sure she doesn't crash. She has found a great way to manage her symptoms though. It's great that Safe and Sound protocol helped her, just a little red flag pops up when I hear she's selling it.

[@gingerindian1141]

incremental progression is what she does with her recovery, as I did. But the endpoint with recovery is not full health, its alleviation of the symptoms, but not completley. This channel is exploiting peoples hopes and selling snake oil. I have CFS/ME since November 1996. I have had 3 seriousl 5 year cycles of debilitation, and each time I thought I was there...and crash. Full relapse. I dont believe personally full recovery is possible - to be able to what I did before. But recovery to a point by managing the nervous system - is what I did do all those years. Yoga, low carb diet, graded exercise, progressive muscle relaxation, mindfulness, imagery, and managing triggers, and energy, with the suitable recovery mindset. These people are exploiting people with ME/CFS - and now long covid people, arguably same as ME/CFS. Both start with a virus. Cautious with these people and the hopes they sell us.

[@henwilki6693]

❤

[@Pavel_Franta]

​​@@gingerindian1141unfortunately, your story is 100% real. Same for many. but recovery is possible. it is hard to believe because solving CFS is not intuitive. It is not intuitive to calm down nervous system that has tons of proofs you are broken. But it is possible, easly and youtube starts to be full of recovered people. Fully Try channel CFS Recovery or any other channel you like where are not bullshits like Joe Dispenza, possitive thinking, meditations or other BS

[@cfsjeprec5638]

Maybe listen to the video again or watch videos on her channel, she has significanly improved and is still slowly improving.

[@gingerindian1141]

@@cfsjeprec5638 when i do a google search, there is no single evidence that anyone makes a full recovery from CFS. I have had CFS since November 1996.

[@mirandaandrea8215]

Sally is amazing! And hit on something crucial which is to get into rest and digest before going for a specific programme as it could be counter productive! This really resonates with me!

[@leadvorsak]

Thank you so much for this conversation, as someone with severe trauma history and now struggling with ME/CFS, Sally explained so much of why I still am not feeling safe so much of my time despite so much effort. And how to approach it differently. Thank you, I am sure this interview will be immensely helpful and I will rewatch it a couple of times while I adjust my recovery approach.

[@RaelanAgle]

I'm so glad it was helpful, Lea ❤️ Much love to you!

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome Lea! so glad you got to watch this today 🤗

[@Lillkatzino]

@@sallyriggs465 One thing I‘m trying to understand is you say „do the nervous system work first“. What exactly is that nervous system work? Since it doesn’t seem to be relaxation exercises (which I have done many and never seen more than momentary improvement) or brain retraining, what else can I do? Would it be stuff like the SSP?

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

@@Lillkatzino Yes, it's my understanding that Sally advises first working on your limbic and vagal nerve through Somatics/Polyvagal work, such as SSP, and her eCourse (she also has a book). Then, once you're in rest & digest, you can then do brain retraining.

[@sullustanmel]

Molecular hydrogen inhilation, thiamine (B1), neurofeedback, hyperbaric oxygen, peptide bio-regulators (thymosin-alpha-1, thymalin), KPV peptide (for mast cells), Quercitin, systemic enzymes (enteric coated nattokinase and serrapetase to break down spike protein). These are the things people need to heal. None of these things will work long term unless you’re rebuilding the immune system from the T-cell exhaustion caused by the infection and then actually removing the spike protein that’s causing the issue.

[@juliaarambula3153]

Does this protocol work if your Covid is autoimmune related? I tested positive for ANA and it’s linked to Covid.

[@tacocat8608]

Fantastic video. Very enlightening. I have been struggling to understand my own battle with long covid, and Dr. Sally Riggs explained so much. I can see now where I was in fight or flight for so long my body finally went into shut down. I'm pretty sure that is where I am now. It has been worrisome because it's markedly different from the "highs" in fight or flight where you are pushing through and getting a few good days at the expense of your overall wellness. Lately it's just been lows. Low energy. Low blood pressure. Low oxygen. Low heart rate. Etc. It makes perfect sense to embrace shutdown instead of fighting it which just prolongs the fight or flight and makes the shut down harder and longer. Leaning in allows the acceptance to come and ultimately invites the rest necessary to move into "rest and digest." I am encouraged to think there is a light on the horizon. I am currently dealing with dysautonomia (orthostatic hypotension), along with mast cell activation syndrome. It has been an absolute nightmare, but I truly believe healing the nervous system is the key to recovery. Thank you for producing this video and for both of your work on this important issue.

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome, so glad to hear that the info is making sense to your nervous system!

[@jenniehubsch2116]

Thx Raelan this conversation with Dr Sally was the most helpful video!

[@eviemorgs]

Sounds like you’re constantly stuck in a fearful state always expecting to crash, trying to control and manage everything around you.. brain retraining is about mindfulness and redirecting unhelpful beliefs and thought patterns that can keep the brain and nervous in fight flight freeze responses

[@leadvorsak]

As someone who experienced severe trauma before developing ME/CFS I can tell you that my nervous system interprets such intense "interrupting and redirecting" too similar to the violence and abuse that caused the trauma. And simply saying 'get a grip, it's not really dangerous' doesn't work. It will shut me down and the brain retraining will not help. I need to approach much more gently and self soothe to a stable enough state, so I can take the brain retraining in. To me, Sally's words resonate so much more because she takes that into the account. It doesn't take away from the brain retraining, but it helps me recognize when to apply it and when to allow myself to soothe the nervous system first and lean into the urges I have to make myself feel safe. In the long run, this might save me energy, because I won't fight with myself so much anymore.

[@jackiegroden416]

My feelings too on this interview.. I’m a mom with a special Jeff’s kiddo at home and a son… it is not a sustainable life for me to say ok… I have a meeting tomorrow at 4… family you have me until 1:00 and then I’m signing off….or else I’m going to have a crash.. I have been coached on doing more and more to stretch my NS… respond well… pull back if needed and go agsin.. teaching my brain and ns once again life is not scary..

[@carolinaramos5304]

I agree with your opinion. Just like she’s expecting a crash if she doesn’t have towels or her feet in a certain positioning a chair. She’s already expecting the worst it’s a conditioned response I can’t agree with her stance I hear a lot of fear

[@ingathomas6653]

@@carolinaramos5304 I feel the same. I guess she's still on her journey and that's fine. Reading the comments there is a bunch of people who relate, so for them her way might be the right one.

[@carolinaramos5304]

@@ingathomas6653 yeah but the title of the video”out of long haul with poly vagal” make is seem like she had recovered and is giving tips on how she recovered. She had clearly not recovered and still crashing so I can’t necessarily take advice from someone that is still sick you know? I wish her the best and a full recovery

[@sarahdean6441]

Makes so much sense, after 11+ years of severe CFS i feel i am finally moving out of complete shutdown....today is a curl up in bed and lean in, have been worrying and overthinking. Thank you very much.

[@RaelanAgle]

Step by step, Sarah ❤️ You've got this!

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome! So glad you were able to lean in!

[@mihakavcic7237]

I use to say: The state that you are in is making you sick.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@mihakavcic7237 if you can manage it a really helpful reframe is “my nervous system is keeping me safe, and I’m gonna thank it, but I also don’t need to be in shutdown anymore…” although definitely took me a while until I could say that!

[@alexandernordic8551]

now add the cell danger response and we're getting closer

[@Fluffpuff101-q8f]

This. Not 'your mitochondria are broken' like she says

[@karenrudd7660]

Irene Lyons Canadian Nervous System Expert has been teaching for years about the dangers of breathwork for trauma, it definitely didn’t work for me, but still so many people are peddling it like its a magic panacea and it clearly does work for them, but its clear to see that those who find it helpful are already quite well embodied and have multiple other somatic and polyvagal practices they use consistently. So to push breathwork on people who do not have a consistent practice of these is downright harmful.

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

@karenrudd7660, Thank you! That is great to know. I was curious about her course, as she seemed very knowledgeable, but her course is also $2K, and since most things don't work, I don't use anything that costs that much--not anymore at least!

[@sallyriggs465]

I agree Karen. As I have been learning these past 2 years, we ALL have so much to learn about our nervous systems and trauma, and a lot of the popular messaging out there isn't really taking all of the nuances into account.

[@sharang747]

Yessssss her Iryn Lyonnnnnn

[@TheEarthSpinsRound]

Such important information. I started learning about the nervous system and how it relates to the nervous system one year ago but didn't really understand how it applied to my situation. I thought I was mostly regulated since getting ill. I confused "calm" with being in ventral vagal. Last week I finally realised that I'm mostly stuck in a freeze response. I'm hoping that this new understanding will greatly help me climb that polyvagal ladder :)

[@sallyriggs465]

So glad to hear you can relate and that this material is helpinf. And yes so many of us confuse "calm" for ventral and we are just in shutdown.

[@misscinnamon5690]

@@sallyriggs465 So glad you came on to share a lot more in-depth info on long covid. I'm curious if you have any info on unusual types of freeze, non epileptic seizures/ drop attacks or temporary paralysis possibly from being in freeze mode.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@misscinnamon5690 not sure what exactly you mean by “more information”. Yes those can all happen… what would be your question?

[@misscinnamon5690]

@@sallyriggs465 My vision is blurring in and out every few seconds, it hasn't stopped in over 2 years. It's been diagnosed as a functional symptom because it started at the same time as seizures, drop attacks and temporary paralysis. Would this be a freeze mode symptom? And if so is it even possible to be in freeze mode 24/7 ?

[@sallyriggs465]

@@misscinnamon5690 yes it’s possible to be in freeze 24/7. Chronic freeze is chronic fatigue so what must of us live with… if by functional you mean “all in your head” Nervous system functional is not psychological it is very much biological. Befriend and calm your nervous system and more than likely these symptoms will go…

[@breezylyn2168]

Doctor can you help me. All our doctors wont listen. Me and all 3 of my kids have severe long covid. I first thought it was toxic mold exposure because we all got soooo ill . I was so confused how all of us could be having heart ,brain ,lung ,circulation, gi problems ,reflux ,severe constipation, mental impairment . I have brain swelling , double vision and lightening effects,my flight or fight is severely stuck on , i have huge panic / anxiety/ ill / overly weak shakey feeling . Chest and abdominal pain,i feel like i got punched in the upper left chest , weird mouth growths ,swelling fingers/joints. I just dont know what to do. How can we beat this ? How can i help myself and my children . Ages 4-16 . Im 41 and perimenopausal . So my hormones are soooooo outta wack. My cycles cause flares . Around my period and ovulation i usually get sent to the hospital with histamine ,sugar, blood pressure ,circulation,blood clots . Pleeease im desperate how can i save us 😭😥😢

[@sallyriggs465]

This video explains how the nervous system is related to all of this. So maybe you wanna look more into doing some nervous system work.

[@JuGren]

Thank you Raelan, thank you Sally for this wonderful interview! ❤ For me perhaps the most helpful and insightful one. Everything just makes so much sense! After almost 4 years I am still on my LC recovery journey and slowly getting better and better. But I have the strong impression this was the final piece to really understand how I could fully heal. So grateful for sharing both your experiences and helping people who don't get much help or understanding otherwise.

[@astridkuhn385]

The best interview for me. It really explains a lot. Thanks.

[@MECFSExplored]

WOW! What a great interview! Thanks Sally and Raelan (always) for this super useful and important video. So great that this information is getting out there!

[@sallyriggs465]

Awww thanks for your kind words. More than welcome!

[@jasonlax2102]

Please try some pinapple its helping me

[@Ponkelina]

Wow! Thank you Sally. I've been looking for an answer when at work and a trigger happens and I get the rush of adrenaline and cortisol. I can't leave and move. I had no idea I could rock and even shake it out (I could go to the work toilet and do this). Thanks so much for that. I will look up all Sally's info. Thanks again. Plus all the other info. What a great guest you have here Raelan.

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome - so glad you got some useful tips!

[@jbll90]

Thank you Sally and Raelan for the video, it has been very useful. How to use SSP if my nervous system does not tolerate anything. Is it necessary to start with just a few seconds? I want to start with a psychologist who uses SSP but I'm afraid my nervous system won't be able to tolerate it (I have cfs).

[@sallyriggs465]

Yes even starting with a few seconds or whatever your body can tolerate. And for those of us who are super sensitive (I was too but am better now) there is a special protocol in which you just do the first 5 mins of each hour (a few seconds at a time) and that can really help! Make sure you find a practitioner who is very experienced with trauma and will do it on zoom with you with coregulation.

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

@jbll90, you can do SSP through Sally--she has monthly group sessions. :) I think I'm going to try her eCourse first (she also has a book), then maybe try SSP.

[@sadnagoso-yn6iz]

Thank you Raelan for helping us. God bless you guys. I have a question, i have developed hyperventilation and I it’s seems like i have breathing dysfunction from covid. You think the brain retraining can help this?. Thank you 🙏🏾

[@nahidtahira9900]

I’m struggling with this too

[@sallyriggs465]

I would say do the nervous system work first! When our nervous system feels safe and is able to move the stored trauma through our bodies, then natural breathing function will return. it did for me. Then you can do the Brian retraining after to really cement and capitalize on all that good nervous system work!

[@sadnagoso-yn6iz]

Thank you for replying me 🤔

[@sallyriggs465]

@@sadnagoso-yn6iz more than welcome!

[@JacquiQ]

REALLY interesting listening to Sally, makes so much sense for me - finally ! I am like, I have been meditating for years - it does not help my CFS. It makes u feel good a the time, but it does not heal my CFS. I will be looking into your work . Thank you !

[@sallyriggs465]

So glad to hear that its resonating! 🤗

[@MrKelso85]

This is the best one I’ve ever seen on any channels makes so much sense how I couldn’t meditate or ice immense or breathwork until exactly the right time

[@sallyriggs465]

Thanks so much, I am so glad to hear that the material resonated!

[@DianaCz-p6k]

Excellent and extremely helpful! Every minute had useful information! Thank to both of you!!!

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome! 🤗

[@vinllgetthere]

Great chat! This is what I've been coming to understand about my own experience over the last couple of years, and learning to differentiate between the states has been tremendously helpful for knowing how to begin to move through them, which minimises symptoms and reduces the frequency and severity of crashes. E.g, I might notice one day I have a reduced appetite or stomach pains, or I might feel cold for no reason, and generally a little emotionally numb. Now I know I'm heading into shutdown. The best thing to do then is to simply self-soothe, which might mean curling up on the sofa with a hot water bottle and a blanket, a soft toy, and watching a comfort film. Just let it ride itself out while giving my nervous system cues of safety. Freeze isn't the same thing (it's more of an overwhelmed paralysis with undercurrents of anxiety), and usually indicates that there are strong feelings beneath the surface that can't quite be safely accessed yet - usually fear or anger. Some kind of movement is good here to regulate and move us out of that paralysis - rocking, like Sally suggests, is great. At some point, when a little better regulated, I'll likely have an upswell of whatever feeling it was that my body was dissociating from, and then acting that out somehow will help discharge that energy. Self-soothing afterwards (for example with havening techniques) seems important to get back into a ventral state, rather than potentially having that physical energy expenditure lead us back into shutdown. Being able to recognise these different states is SO helpful for reinstating some sense of control and reducing the fear we have around our symptoms. You lean to work with your body, rather than feeling like you're fighting against yourself all the time. Sally - I wanted to ask about what you said re: breathwork. "If you have a trauma history ... when you take a deep breath, all of your trauma comes flooding back into your body". This is absolutely my experience (meditation too), but why is this?

[@RaelanAgle]

What an incredible observation, LS! Thanks so much for sharing, and what a great question! ❤️❤️❤️

[@sallyriggs465]

That is a great question! My sense is, because trauma is stored biologically in our bodies, and it changes the biology of our bodies (it changes our nervous system but it also changes a lot of other parts of our biology too) for those of us who haven't done trauma work and are just functioning by dissociating a little and not being in our bodies, or bracing (where you kind of tense and hunch over in a kind of protective stance) to keep away from all the unpleasant sensations 24/7, when we truly fill our lungs all the way our bodies can no longer be in that dissociated or braced state and so all of the sensations we have been avoiding we can no longer avoid (its not really that they went anywhere so flooding back is more a visual metaphor) but we suddenly can't help but be present and it is REALLY uncomfortable.

[@vinllgetthere]

​@@sallyriggs465 Thank you! And, that rings true to me. Certainly now that I'm better tuned into my responses to things I can feel myself literally braced against some intangible thing all the time, and it does feel like holding the full force of things at bay. Very interesting to view meditation/breathwork as potentially being the loss of that protective distance. I think that'll help me. I do wish this kind of response were more widely understood, because not only do some of us end up repeatedly triggering ourselves (and deepening that sense of a lack of safety in our bodies as a result), but it also detaches us further from our own intuition about what is right for us when we're told the opposite is true. This is problematic with NS work because most of have found ourselves in this boat to begin with because we were already so out of whack with our intuition, and it's such an important part of this journey to learn to reconnect with it. It's a shame so few practitioners are trauma informed too, since they can end up exacerbating the problem by not understanding this.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@vinllgetthere yeah I do find it very frustrating that nervous system is SUCH a hot topic on social media right now but most haven’t really done the research or study and stuff is being perpetuated that is grossly misinformed. Fact checking social media is hard and when we live with Long Covid and ALL that entails we shouldn’t have to do that on top of everything else.

[@revelation1215]

I think people that have trauma stay busy and keep their minds active in order not to deal with unpleasant things. When you still your mind and come to the present moment, you become hyperaware of the things you are avoiding.

[@freya1188]

My first thought is that the symptom mapping and constant checking in is probably perpetuating the cycle rather than breaking it

[@sallyriggs465]

Definitely Freya we see this a lot. Whereas tracking the nervous system helps us tune into our bodies instead, and even before we do any Polyvagal Strategies that still cues our bodies for safety a little because it feels like its being heard finally!

[@seaweedeater3104]

Very interesting. Sally is amazing. Thanks Raelan

[@sallyriggs465]

Awww thank you!! 🤗

[@lunachick7893]

What is the safe protocol and how do i get out of freeze?

[@sallyriggs465]

lots of great info on my youtube channel on both of these Luna

[@ultrafeel-tv]

What exactly is "nervous system work"...?

[@sallyriggs465]

First we have to learn what the 3 different states look like for us, which requires slowly and gently trying to pay attention to what's happening in our body without getting overwhelmed (most of us cos the symptoms were so intense aren't really in our body much). Then it involves learning what we call Polyvagal Strategies, little gentle things we can do with our body to help easy it back up the "ladder" - that might be yoga or deep breathing or meditation if your body can tolerate that - if not there are lots of other little things to try. And our nervous systems are all different so what my body loves and responds to might be different than yours.

[@coryrussum9286]

She's Brilliant🙏🏾👑🌹

[@mirandaandrea8215]

I can’t help wondering if the Mrna jab which was rushed through for emergency authorisation has had a terrible impact on people’s health and long covid is a result from that??? I am deeply concerned around how information has been weaponised! 😢 thanks for sharing Sally! polyvagul theory fascinating!

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

@mirandaandrea8215, Absolutely. LC is a result of both the virus and the jab. Sally acknowledges this in the comment sections under her videos. :)

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome!

[@stella245]

@Sally, why are you on ME/CFS channel promoting your program when you decline requests from ME/CFS people to join your page on FB? Obviously, you know it's exactly the same illness, otherwise you wouldn't be on this channel? I'm disappointed.

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

They're very similar but not quite the same. Long Covid has specific ways in which it damages the body, and that is Sally's focus, and I can imagine that would be why she wants to focus on people with Long Covid, as that's where her education lies based on her research and experience. :)

[@stella245]

@@PeaceIsYeshua what is the difference then?

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

@@stella245 I would go to Sally’s channel and watch several of her videos, as she explains quite a bit about what happens to people on a physiological level who are going through long Covid. To learn more about the symptoms of ME/CFS, watching several shows on this channel would do the trick. Good luck on your healing journey. ❤️

[@sallyriggs465]

forgive me @stella245 we do keep our facebook group just for people with Long covid. Its not meant to be exclusionary, and the illnesses are incredibly similar, but there are some differences, and so when creating a safe space it felt important to do that within the confines of my expertise. I know an awful lot about LC. I know a bit less about ME/CFS. Yes there is a huge overlap and I wouldn't want to overextend and pretend to know something that I don't. For 4 years folks with LC were an add on to other programs that as the pandemic went on and LC emerged started just tacking "and Long Covid" onto their titles. Many of us spent months if not years doing programs that used particular words in them and we had to each time we heard that word substitute for LC in our minds (like when I took DNRS in 2021). So when I was creating my own course and the linked fb group it made sense that this would be with the words Long Covid first. Definitely not meant to throw shade or anything like that. Just I have lived with LC, which includes ME/CFS. I have not lived with ME/CFS that isn't attached to a known illness and has its own clear cohort, which I know millions of you have, and that's a different experience. I can't pretend to know what that's like. I only know this. It is a sad reality that when creating safety that always includes boundaries, and the boundary I chose to include here is "everyone who has had the same experience that I have and I know", because that's where I can best use my resources in helping.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@stella245 one clear different is that we know what caused the physiological damage in our body: the spike protein. If you contract ME/CFS from a different virus, often maybe you don't even know what the virus was. So the symptoms may be very similar, but the pathophysiology maybe a little different. Researchers are working hard right now to figure that bit out.

[@taragunn9400]

Aha!! I’ve been pondering the brain retraining vs somatic/nervous system approaches. How they work or not work. They seem to be at opposites at times. This makes a lot of sense!

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

@taragunn9400, What conclusions have you come to? I think I'm going to start with Sally's Somatic/Polyvagal eCourse. I was all set to start brain retraining too, but I've binge-watched Sally's videos and decided I see no reason why not to start with the bottom-up approach (somatic) since she says that's the best order to start.

[@taragunn9400]

@@PeaceIsYeshuapolyvagal Aall the way! I’m biased as I’ve been studying/implementing somatics. But this stuff is life changing. Once we get regulated a lot of the ‘positive thinking’ happens on its own. I still have a lot to learn - and not recovered but it’s definitely the important base layer. Good luck! I think she is charging a wonderully reasonable price too compared to others I’ve seen.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@PeaceIsYeshua I would definitely agree - how are you finding it?

[@sallyriggs465]

@@taragunn9400 I love how you put that Tara - once we get regulated our thinking does indeed take care of itself! When we are in shutdown its almost impossible not to think negative thoughts.

[@protocode_227]

what's poly vagal 😭

[@MsJessyBee]

That’s interesting because a lot of these brain retraining programs say you have to trigger your symptoms and do exposure therapy to retrain your brain in neuropathies. I heard the exact opposite in this interview. And we see a ton of recovery stories from these different programs that are having people move through their symptoms in calm ways that retrain and redirect the neural pathways. Why would you want to do brain retraining when your brain is in rest and digest? Your brain doesn’t need to be retrained at that time. It’s where it’s supposed to be. That’s confusing. When you’re in your safe zone you’re not growing. You have to step out of your comfort zone and experience uncomfortable symptoms and give your body signals of safety in order to retrain. Maybe I need to listen again or someone can explain…..

[@sallyriggs465]

Most of us dont stay in Rest and Digest well when we get there, we fall right out. You do brain retraining here for what we call "expansion" to extend you capacity to stay in Rest and Digest safely (those of us with trauma histories weirdly don't find Rest and Digest safe, are bodies have adapted and find chaos safe).

[@aloha_element]

The Polyvagal Theory and Somatic Movement saved my life! Thank you for your work in spreading awareness, Raelan.🙏🏼✨️🤙🏻

[@BenMariano]

Such brilliant timing for this video. I am at the beginning of taking at least 13 months off work, in the same boat as Dr. Riggs being an independent contractor with little financial supports (Canada is not much better for us). Realan's 5 step plan was my starting point last week and I didn't get through two days - was a real struggle to focus on curiosity about it, instead of despairing - before this video I was at a complete loss as to where to try and start again. Thank you both so much.

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome Ben - so glad it resonated!

[@lianpeet3502]

Lots of good information there.

[@sallyriggs465]

So glad you found it helpful Lian!

[@ljsequestrian]

Sally Riggs work has helped me so much!! Her book is sheer GOLD!! 🌟🌟… because of her bringing the Sage and Sound Protocol to my attention, I have been doing that and finding so much benefit!! For me, vagus nerve stimulation from an electrical unit was way too much for my nervous system and sent me into crash. I remember her saying in a different interview, that Safe and Sound often has to be done first before the vagus nerve machine stimulators can be used…. Thank you Sally and Raelan! 👏

[@RaelanAgle]

So happy to hear that, ljsequestrian! 💛

[@sallyriggs465]

Thanks so much for sharing I am SO glad you loved the book. And that the SSP is helping. Its such a powerful tool. Excited for your recovery! 🤗

[@alexandrecouture2462]

Wonderful video, thank you!

[@headbangingidiot]

Her volume is really soft, I wonder if it could be fixed?

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

Yes! I was resting with my eyes closed while listening, and I had to turn it up so loud to hear Sally that it would startle me every time I heard Raelan talk or the clicking sounds to subscribe, because their volume was so much higher. 😂 Most of the interviews have good sound balance though. ☺️❤

[@geeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz]

BTW I laughed when she said about rocking. When young my mother mentioned it to the Dr and apparently he replied "he's just a rocker". I was a forward/backer while seated and also on the bed rolling back and forth on my side, so actually a rocker and a roller ! I remember thinking this is weird and other kids like my siblings don't do this so why do I? but obviously it was some kind of vagus nerve comforting thing, which for some reason I needed. Now I cycle or go for a walk (in nature) when I can and take some Ashwaganda/Rhodiola. Previously it was smoking and drinking.

[@healthville-dx8zu]

Literally no one has been helpful post-covid for the over 3 1/2 years I've struggled. Doctors, specialists, tons of videos, books, etc. It seems everyone has a different theory and is just guessing. Even in the long covid groups and forums, no one ever seems to fully recover and remain recovered, and the supposed solutions for even a partial recovery vary wildly from one person to the next. This is a very sporadic and individualized thing, seemingly. The things that have helped me required me doing a ton of research into pathology, herbs and supplements, and so on. I had to be my own guinea pig because the physicians are dumbfounded and chalk over 100 symptoms up to "anxiety", functional medicine costs too much and people have had little success with it, and everyone else talking about this subject online is just selling something (a book, a program, supplements, etc.) .... ugh

[@bertramhall6131]

Thank you and Sally for this very interesting and enlightening interview.

[@sallyriggs465]

You are so welcome Betram!

[@deborahtaylor9714]

When I asked doctors about polyvagal theory in 2021, it was dismissed and I was urged away from it. One doctor said, “I don’t know anything about the vagal system. You would have to go someplace else. Our hospital doesn’t work with that.” This resonates with my daughter’s Long Covid journey. Thank you.

[@kirstenschweikert7181]

Great 😊 Thank you very much.

[@geeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzz]

I've heard things such as "thoughts create feelings", so you have to block or halt the negative stuff and I also came across something about imagining you have this force field shield around you to block all of the nasty people energy. I think these things can be powerful so would like to know more about such things.

[@sharang747]

Kaithy Kain and Peter Levine are majors in this field of nervous system healing polyvagal theory’s

[@yvonnehigginson3154]

OMG....there is a God! I am going to get better! Thank you sooo much ! 1

[@delitecreative]

Please do a video of Pulsetto 🙏

[@sharang747]

Irene Lyon is magic! Please interview her

[@dottieprestel2743]

Hi, did you post the link to your polyvagel theory?

[@majahorvat7294]

Thanks this is very informative. I am unable to find info about her course. Would you mind sharing it? Thanks.

[@RaelanAgle]

For sure, we've just added the link in the show notes, under the video.

[@luistirado88]

I got a lot out of this one. Thanks Raelan.

[@JKSinTO]

Went on the SSP website. It's for training. Very disappointing and discouraging after watching this whole video. Shouldn't push something that's not available for people who don't want to train in it.

[@PeaceIsYeshua]

@JKSinTO, I was confused at first as well, but after watching many of her videos, I learned that she does monthly group sessions for people who want to use SSP, so you could just do it through Sally. :)

[@sallyriggs465]

The website for the SSP software is indeed very confusing and primarily designed for practictioner wanting to be certified and purchase a subscription. If you want to learn more consumer friendly info I have a whole playlist on my youtube channel talking about it. And as @peacelsyeshua says we do offer it in my practice - info on our website

[@Conquerchronicillness]

Love that you’re covering PVT!

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome!

[@Hardiarm]

Hyper

[@christinal.suarez1838]

Very enlightening. Makes so much sense!❤

[@sallyriggs465]

So glad you liked it!

[@ccc2784]

Oh wow, I’m early lol

[@jomaynard4483]

Really found this helpful thank you so much 😊

[@RaelanAgle]

Glad it was helpful! ❤️

[@MrSmartless]

It clear my mind, thank you so much 🙏🙏🙏

[@sallyriggs465]

More than welcome - so glad it helped!

[@lkececi7513]

Well explained,

[@yoga-und-achtsamkeit]

One of the most important for me. Thank you so much 🙏

[@sallyriggs465]

So glad to hear it resonated. More than welcome! 🤗

[@carolinaramos5304]

Sally you have TMs you have to stop babying yourself and just show indifference to fully heal. Look into John sarno and Dan buglio

[@sallyriggs465]

super familiar with all their work. Unfortunately the science we have looking at the pathophysiology shows very clearly that Long covid is a medical illness so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Nothing against anyone who has found relief from those approaches, but many try to go that path and it doesn't work for them and they wonder if there's something wrong with them and so just wanted to validate that experience! Not sure how healing my nervous system or appreciating the science is babying myself, but I won't trouble you to elaborate on that one.

[@jertho8482]

To look after yourself properly, most of us with severe CFS, should go straight back to the beginning to reparent ourselves; tapping, patting, rocking, making ourselves warm and comfortable- all things we do to soothe a baby’s nervous system. How many parents ask a child to breathe, go a run, do yoga, or meditate when they are wired or upset? Hug yourself until you can do more than that 😊 Then move on to Polyvagal theory or TMS.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@jertho8482 absolutely! Giving yourself a hug or holding your own hand are very powerful polyvagal strategies! As is curling up in the fetal position or gently rocking.

[@knittingggg326]

@@jertho8482i love that, thank you!

[@JenniferCira]

Best video ever!!!!

[@sallyriggs465]

Aww thats so kind of you! So glad you loved it 🤗

[@EvinFox]

OH MY GOSH. I have been doing this journey since early 2020 as well. I have been reading and following all the websites and all the different types of healing. This is the first thing that I think is going to work for me.

[@RaelanAgle]

Wow, Evin ❤️! Keeping my fingers crossed for you! 🤞

[@sallyriggs465]

I hear that a lot Evin and definitely similar to my own journey!! So glad you're here now! So sorry you had to go through the last 4 years... 🤗

[@kamusnainen]

Greetings from NL, I have been recovering with all that I learn from this chanel. It was already 6th year to go and now finally (slowly but still) getting better. Thank you Raelan en this wonderful story, again. I will keep following 😃

[@katetsai505]

❤ Thank you BOTH, Raelan and Sally…. You two have given me back my HOPE, after wrestling for many years. Seriously, after watching a gazzilian videos, reading anything even remotely related to ME/CFS, and now, Long Covid as well, and after 23 years of suffering with so many symptoms of ME/CFS, your presentation today, Sally has REALLY given me HOPE for a way out of this most challenging of diseases!!!! Which is HUGE!!! As a therapist myself, Sally, you’re, Oh So correct in how you view CBT and ME/CFS….I agree completely. This disease is not anything like any other mind/body illness that I’ve ever even conceived of, heard of (despite working at Johns Hopkins, both private and public medical/health related agencies and private practice, worked with professionally for 35+ years) much less personally experienced, or actually met ANYONE with ME/CFS (that I was consciously aware of). Other than watching lovely people such as yourselves, continuing to help people with all of your own hard won victories!!!

[@mariannesmiley300]

@@sallyriggs465hi

[@CharlieRascal]

Thank you Realan and Dr. Sally Riggs. What is your opinion of Vagus Nerve Stimulation Devices?

[@sallyriggs465]

Such a great question!! I get asked this a lot and have a few videos on my channel that go into more detail just so I don't write an essay here ;-) Many many people tell me they find them to be useful. Personally I have never used one because I did the Safe and Sound Protocol (SSP) instead. The SSP creates permanent positive change to your nervous system. Vagus Nerve Stimulators or tVNS as they call them stimulate your nervous system when on, but do nothing when off, i.e. they don't create lasting change. Stephen Porges, who invented Polyvagal Theory, calls them "prosthetics" i.e. they just become like an extension of you (or prosthetic) because you just have to keep using them forever. Yes they are effective. Lots of research on that. Any many researchers are using them in migraines and chronic pain and many other things. Very cool they even treat acute covid in that they found in a study that people who were on ventilators in the hospital, when given tVNS, came off 5 days faster than if they didn't have tVNS. It makes your lung open up and start working again. Very cool. And obviously in that situation you can't use SSP (its much longer intervention taking months) so for acute uses they are very cool. But they just don't create permanent change. Because how could they? Its an external thing making your vagus work, when you turn it off the vagus goes back to its old inflexible state. But we can massively improve vagal tone with SSP and with lots of other polyvagal work. Sorry that is an essay forgive me!

[@CharlieRascal]

@@sallyriggs465 thank you so much for your in-depth reply 😊. I’ll leave it then and keep on with my existing work

[@Waves353]

@@sallyriggs465thank you so much for this interview. Due to cognitive issues I may have missed something around safe and sound protocol. How much did this help? You mentioned somewhere it’s a permanent sort of “fix” (for want of a better word) Mainly severe fight flight here with some scarey relief of shut down. Trauma history but Covid times trauma on top tipped me over. I could have avoided it getting to this stage back in March 2020. Lost my career (and self) for 3 years now

[@sallyriggs465]

@@Waves353 safe and sound protocol was the first thing I did that made a difference in my recovery September 2021. I went from severe fatigue and barely getting outta bed to working full time in about 2.5 months. It was the beginning of my journey into polyvagal theory and after that I went into a 2 year deep dive of learning.

[@Ponkelina]

Thank you so much for explaining this. It makes sense. @@sallyriggs465

[@tonjar]

I have access to the Safe and Sound Protocol because I am a provider. It did not help at all. Neither did meditations or any other mind body techniques. Mentally I have been mostly content and accepting during 18 months of Long Covid. Physically all these things that I am so fond of did nothing for me.

[@RaelanAgle]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience, Tonja! There are so many things we still don't understand about these conditions - and for sure, there's no one-size-fits-all solution. I hope you find your missing piece! ❤️❤️❤️

[@sallyriggs465]

Tonja when you say you have access, did you listen on your own, without co-regulation from another practitioner? And how many minutes a day? How we listen to it is really important, too much or without the right support we can overwhelm our nervous system and go into a crash. Also when you say you are a provider, you are certified and also offering it to your own clients...?

[@tonjar]

@@sallyriggs465I did a round with a practioner before I got ill. This helped me a lot with regulation. I listened on my own while having Long Covid. I did not feel any positive effects (also no crashes or overwhelm) but still enjoyed it. What might be important: I have been surprisingly relaxed and well-regulated while ill, no sympathetic overdrive. I have some years of mindfulness and other mind-body/ somatic techniques under my belt prior to the illness, maybe that helped. I assume if sympathetic overactivation is a major driver of the illness, then regulatory activities might help. I think it is important to keep in mind that the relevant factors driving sickness differ for each person. I am not particularly critical of the SSP, I am just calling for a more nuanced and humble approach to possible treatments for these chronic conditions.

[@tonjar]

@@sallyriggs465 I am much too sick to work with clients. Bedbound 20 hours a day, long-covid-related myocarditis / heart failure and the whole galore of LC symptoms for 20 months. Fortunately finding the right medical treatment got me from being able to be upright or sitting for 15 min at a time to 2 hours at a time, which I am immensely grateful for. May I ask why you are asking? It frankly comes across as questioning my experience and judgment to me.

[@tonjar]

Oddly, my other comment did not appear: I did a round of the SSP with a practioner a few years before I got ill which I found helpful and then alone while ill. I did not register any positive or negative effects. But I didn't experience any sympathetic overdrive anyway, I have been surprisingly "chill" since I got sick. This might be due to a) the many years of and somatic and overall therapeutic practices before becoming ill or b) neither sympathetic overdrive nor dorsal shutdown being a prominent part of my sickness particular sickness profile. I am not critical of the possible effect of the SSP as a means of attaining a more regulated state. I am just asking for a more nuanced approach to the conversation of what might help each individual.

[@bihh2812]

I have mixed feelings about this approach. I've researched after watching this video and on the website of their practitioners it's like a miracle, but if you look further on forums, apparently people had quite severe long term effects from it, but the company does nothing to help and some even claim that their bad reviews were erased from their website. It's hard, because not sure what to believe..

[@sallyriggs465]

forgive me which website are you talking about..? what are people having severe long term effects from?

[@forisma]

31:51 my hypothesis is that your hypothesis is incorrect 😬 Because ME/CFS is not based in dysregulated nervous system (however, it can add on top), it's based dysautonomia. But fixing dysautonomia is a bit similar to fixing dysregulated nervous system. Being able to do breathing exercises doesn't make me have less dysautonomia than other people with me/cfs. I was bedbound and could do my breathing exercises just fine. It was pretty much the only thing I could do back then.

[@sallyriggs465]

Forgive me I'm not totally sure I understand. Dysautonomia means dysfunctional autonomic nervous system, thats the definition of the word, so I am not sure I am following how they are different?

[@forisma]

@@sallyriggs465 there's dysautonomia and there's emotional dysregulation, two different things. Both based in the brain, yes. Dysautonomia is an umbrella term for different conditions like POTS and orthostatic intolerance (OI), but also a prethora of others. In POTS and OI, which are the ones found in people with ME/CFS, there's less blood volume, less blood supply to the brain, amongst other things that get disrupted. Dysautonomia makes us more susceptible for dysregulation. When emotional dysregulation happens, it worsens dysautonomia in turn. That's what happened for me too. First I got dysautonomia. Then I had a stressful period, got emotionally dysregulated, which lead to a burn out. Burn out worsened my dysautonomia to the point when I couldn't do anything at all for a while. Dysautonomias like POTS and orthostatic intolerance can be measured with tilt table test. Dysregulation can't. One can have a dysautonomia without dysregulation. One can have dysregulation without dysautonomia. That said, both dysautonomia and emotional dysregulation can be treated naturally with a somewhat similar approach. But because we don't know enough about dysautonomia, how it emerges, what are the factors that keep it going and how to treat it, a lot of people stay ill. I think the best approach is a full spectrum approach, when you handle everything at once. Diet (lower carb for stable blood sugar), sleep, movement (Dallas POTS protocol), vagus functioning. A lot of people, including myself 🤪, tend to forget some of these things.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@forisma so what I’m talking about is dysautonomia as you define it - nothing to do with emotional dysregulation. Apologies for the confusion. Yes I am a licensed psychologist but I don’t work as one with Long Covid as it is not a psychological disorder.

[@jackiegroden416]

Our mitochondria are broken?

[@jackiegroden416]

And who uses the description of mental retardation anymore?

[@sallyriggs465]

Yeah they're not working properly. There is a LOT of research on this in both LC and ME/CFS. Not sure if Raelan has a previous video on it, but I can try and drop some research links if not.

[@jackiegroden416]

@@sallyriggs465 no thanks

[@alexandrecouture2462]

Not working properly and broken are kinda different definitions. As we saw with so many recovery stories, it can absolutely go back to normal.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@alexandrecouture2462 well the physiological capacity of the body for healing is huge. Even a broken brain can create new neural pathways.

[@jog5289]

Wow! What a very informative video. I'm currently doing the Gupta Program. The first level involves relaxing the nervous system.. so hopefully I'm on the right track. I'm starting to feel better for it. Thank you Raelan and Dr Sally. 🥰

[@RaelanAgle]

Super excited for you, Jog! ❤️❤️❤️ The Gupta program is awesome - you're definitely headed for success 👍

[@jog5289]

@@RaelanAgle Thank you Raelan. Jo G.

[@sallyriggs465]

And if you get stuck Jog, I have tons of resources on supporting the nervous system on my channel!

[@seanm.collins9888]

@@sallyriggs465 No we need to listen to Putrino, Systrom and Davenport.

[@sallyriggs465]

@@seanm.collins9888 definitely a huge fan of David Putrino Sean. I don't think he would disagree with anything I say here about Dysautonomia.

[@sherrybutts5947]

That coat hanger metaphor sounds like the cross

[@sallyriggs465]

its not a metaphor is a well documented POTs/MCAS symptom

[@sherrybutts5947]

@@sallyriggs465 lol I was just thinking about where the pressure was at when he was hung in that position !!