Raid Positioning - The Truffle Shuffle

[@usa1327]

all i could think of hearing you talk about your spot is Sheldon saying "you're in my spot"

[@awaken6760]

A day with a new Preach video is a good day.

[@RagingGoldenEagle]

This is a good way to separate the good players (or players who are at least capable of learning) from the n00bs. If told to move, a good player will ask why (preferably at the end of the fight) and hopefully try to learn. A n00b will just get butthurt and lash out, not able to see past the "douchiness" of being asked to move. If they still don't understand after having it explained to them after the fight ends, I'd say just gkick them right then and there because they are a lost cause. A bad player willing to learn and change at least has the potential to become good, a bad player not willing to learn will always be bad.

[@Bankstercide]

+Raging Golden Eagle Finding good players isn't really that hard; _keeping_ good players is another thing entirely. Getting them properly geared. only to have them poached by other guilds or to have them leave due to drama between guildies is an all too common hazard of managing a guild.

[@neidhartmuller8804]

+Raging Golden Eagle im starting to find you in almost all the comments sections everytime i scroll down

[@RagingGoldenEagle]

***** Sounds like the story of me playing with my real life friends... Ran some endgame dungeons in Tera with em, and the healer (who admittedly did a decent job keeping us alive) refused to debuff the enemy's defense buffs. I kept telling him he has the spell to do that, he kept claiming otherwise. I told him to check his spells again and he said he did and didn't see any. After the wipe I logged in as my own priest and double checked, and pointed it out to him. He just said "eh, I never used it so I didn't know". Turns out he only uses about 6 of his spells and doesn't even know what the rest do.

[@thragblan]

Preach this was an eye opener. Top notch content. Would love to see more videos, like this, that dive into the advanced aspects of how top end raid guilds play

[@Klok-work]

Amen, Preach, Amen! Trying to get my raid to do this is one of the hardest things. Sharing your video with them might make them realize. Thanks for putting the time into making this. Cheers. - Klok

[@jasoncoetzee979]

Really Preach thank you so much for this video. I am going to show this to my guildies tonight and show them that positioning is really one of the MOST important things in a fight.

[@Wolfeson28]

There's one other thing that goes along with this and can really allow players to improve. Don't just know when you have to move yourself, but also know when others have to move and anticipate what you can do to accommodate them. This is something I constantly do on Iron Reaver myself. As a ranged, I've established my normal position as on the far left end of the arc of ranged, behind and slightly left of the left-most healer. When I see a barrage go out, I watch to see not just if the barrage is in my area, but also if it's in the next area to my right. If I see it aimed just to my right, I know there will be people from that area moving toward me to avoid the barrage, SO I IMMEDIATELY SHIFT LEFT. I know I need to clear them some room briefly (since unstable orb almost always goes out right after barrage) and I know there's no one else to my left that I'll interfere with. Plus, I know that as a hunter, movement barely affects me. I can still do everything I need to do while moving, so I make a point to use that advantage to help other people in my raid minimize the movement they need to find a clear spot. I do the same thing with allures on Archimonde; I have a speed boost from my Disengage and I don't need to stop moving to keep up my dps, so I'll keep going to the far end of the spread area for shadowfel burst until I know everyone else has the room they need. Obviously, I return to my original position after the ability finishes, but this is another level of thought players can use to be aware of themselves and their surroundings, and use the flexibility they create for themselves to help other raid members.

[@EndlessVacuum]

SOUNDS LIKE A HEALER PROBLEM TO ME I CAN DPS FINE IN THIS NEW PLACE, IF YOU CAN'T HEAL PROPERLY I GUESS YOU NEED TO FIX THAT signed, every DPSer ever

[@basuo8378]

+EndlessVacuum every bad player ever

[@NubrangeLtd]

+honnorgaurd Someone doesn't know how to read sarcasm

[@chriswilliams2441]

+honnorgaurd Sarcasm.

[@Jonseemann]

+EndlessVacuum Plus, this fire below my feet gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that I like. I am perfectly fine in my position.

[@davidgranstrand6392]

I'm probably gonna try raiding again, for realsies this time. Thank you for bringing something like this up, shaking the rust off is always the hard part when getting the bike back in working order.

[@EdilarinProducts]

Billy, please!

[@TheAgore47]

Great video, Preach. I can think of several times I have had to move while damaging a boss and as a result had less damage uptime than I'd like, and going forward I will find myself applying and analyzing this sort of approach in each encounter I find myself in.

[@Moozart]

The problems you describe is one of the major reasons my guild hasn't killed more mythic bosses at this point. Awesome video yet again, Preacher!

[@areharald]

Bloody brilliant video Mike, this is something I haven't thought of at all.

[@RM-nf5eq]

still linking this for new people to our mythic reaver kills! excellent video as always preach!

[@Grandy_UiD]

This was one of the "truest" videos you've ever done. Agree with basically everything and it's often driving me nuts in our raid that people don't get it.

[@ii2gjdp20sjdj2]

14:52 How did Jimmy even make it to the raid!? I thought he got ganked outside!

[@Animuldok]

Agreed, this is a must for "basic raiding theory 101." As a moonkin, I always attempt to find that sweetspot that will require minimal movement to maximize my throughput. However, I'm also of the guy that will adjust to put the raid first instead of standing my ground... you see the paradox here. I guess I need to grow a set and be a little more vocal.

[@MrSamtrix]

Man, everything you said in this video about noobs, that was me. I had no idea positioning was so important. Thanks Preach!

[@fairygodbrother]

my biggest pet peeve in wow is back peddling along with key turners.

[@controlaltdelete959]

+FuZZy961 backpedaling has its place. usually for small adjustments. Like how mobs (and sometimes bosses) like to run through you and stand on the opposite side (which I suspect is latency related). Alternatively, one could use the walk (instead of run) button with a strafe and a camera turn to do the same thing, but no backpedaling isn't a horrible thing.

[@JohnDoe-po5cm]

The best way you can notice this is in fights where your boss mod is putting up a permanent range radar. You see people move out of shit all the way over to you, within the range radar you know they fucking have and sit there as if you're the one supposed to adjust to account for their fat ass.

[@JohnDoe-po5cm]

***** Must be your transmog.. xD

[@Atromnis]

I didn't even realize I moved back to my position until you brought it up. I just thought this was something that everyone knew they were supposed to do, even though I know BIlly back there was always the one to die in the raid.

[@spiritchild2000]

Part of why I love playing a priest healer. Not going to move? Waiting to finish your cast before moving to someone who is dying because you are leashed to them during Gorefiend? Standing in the middle on Kilrogg and Heartseeker is almost out?This Leap of Faith is for you! I have been flamed for it even, but as any healer knows mana is a precious resource. So stop making me waste it! lol Excellent video Preach. I have noticed I do the "This is my spot. There are many like it, but this one is mine..." while raiding. If a new raid lead makes me move it just kills my mojo.

[@ThatGuyKazz]

Hey Preach this is a great video! I love your stuff like this because they are really focused on what people can do to be better raiders no matter what class, spec, or role they are playing. I would be amazing if you could find the time to put all off these types of videos into a single playlist. I am an assistant raid leader for my guild and a play list with these types of videos would be a phenominal resource to direct newer raid members to so they can improve and become better raiders over all.

[@dorien87]

"And now the healer has got to pull an Usain Bolt.." jup... and then getting yelled at 'I'm not getting any heals for like 5 seconds!'. *Retreats to healer lounge*

[@mgalangzingme12]

"This is my spot"- most popular line on gruul's tbc fight

[@herojez]

Not once have I considered this. Excellent point. Usually tanked raids, though so perhaps it wasn't that big a deal for us.

[@bobbykotick1163]

is there a playlist of these lesson style videos?

[@TheCoDzillaPlayer]

MOVE mate, MOVE *Pushes Ghost*

[@ASpaceOstrich]

Holy shit, I'd never even considered it because you can move through each other, but every single death I've had thus far could have been avoided if I wasn't standing inside 4 guys with utter chaos going on around me due to the lack of any intentional thought out positioning. Gonna incorporate this into my next raid.

[@vaughansport]

I luv it when the Preacher is in the House !

[@Twistedman2000]

im a warlock and i only have 2 charges of a instacast spell but i need to keep them on CD but on iron reaver i always save 1 up in case the shit happens

[@Nightstalker314]

Another good example would be Maidens mythic in BRF!

[@anafilipajesus8656]

Holy Priest love!!!! :D And as always very useful information for every raider!

[@bpmiller87]

Thumbs up just for the truffle shuffle pic

[@Metallimanne]

I must say preach! you're one hell of a baller!

[@alexanderdiaz8464]

Thanks preach your insight is so amazing you truly have helped me alot socially and mechanicaly as a player in wow keep up the great work your awesome:).

[@BigHueGaming]

I feel like such of noob now. I've made this mistake so many times without thinking about it. I'm glad I know now and will start fixing it. thanks preach!

[@Pexeon]

Positioning was really ingrained into people in vanilla. With 40 people, where people were standing was much more important.

[@Jaayce60]

My guild has been setting raid markers for fights to make sure everyone know where they should be and where there set spot is.

[@Brosicle22]

I love your videos preach, long time viewer, i must say though fella, I don't really feel like your content caters to me that much anymore (as a casual ) ( in b4 hate) - i think you should do more opinion videos and lengthy discussion topics .e.g the problem in the mists, that sort of thing. Really love hearing your thoughts/ opinions on things because you're spot on.

[@Huippeli]

Coud have done this video a little earlier? :D Bought it already damn it!

[@GenGariczek]

LOVE this! Can we get more? Pleaseeeee.

[@TheAngryMurloc]

That moment when you discover that barrage is targeted on the healers so all the dps can be on one side and leave the healers to move ;p

[@nkish]

This should be required by any person who wants to raid at any level!

[@Tubz1990]

the little floor tile that was separated like a little island on chimaeron. That was "My" island. xD

[@Direwoof]

I like how the tank is a bulwark of azzinoth XD

[@--Dan-]

And you know god damn Billy and Jimmy are hunters too, and still don't move

[@nateo1819]

Hahaha "That's my spot" EATS A BARRAGE

[@BlooregardQKazoo-ff6wb]

This is great preach, I mean really really good! thanks for the video ; )

[@frub2106]

we are the vanguard!!!

[@Fu22l3]

I've been getting irritated by people moving for other reasons. I can now add this one to it as well of course, but I run the addon that gives a rough idea of aoe abilities that target individuals making them living bombs. I get irritated whenever I'm the target and some idiot decides that he's going to run and stand right next to me after I've adjusted so that no one else should be taking damage.

[@Sachnix]

Now I know where Preachers recent addiction to the word "MOVE!!" on the webshows comes from..

[@ph4se2]

Awesome vid, a real eye opener for me.

[@silentreaper5943]

preeeeeach. grats on the baby dude. been following you since you did a ret pally howiecow...Cynical Brit. cheers mate

[@superCowmaster]

been doing this for awhile, never really considered it as a possible issue that others in my group have, but wow this makes a ton of sense, like when my group was doing mythic flamebender ppl would suddenly be grabing your ass and your like "fuck off man". ty for this enlightenment

[@addressunknown8]

dat throat clear at the end..

[@DingleXSock]

Preach you should start doing the workshop again. They were so helpfull!

[@nipa1013]

"The whole world s now doomed belly just because you could not stand n YOU'R spot!"

[@sanjous100]

void overfiends in melee, that's what I think in this situation. Screw you healer whom shall not be named.

[@TheShayter]

Just thought I'd add that barrage can only target healers.

[@ianm271]

I disagree about the whole dpsing from one spot the entire time thing. Here's why: If I can't be relied on to be able to know the fight from all sides, be able to push competent, if not top numbers from all sides and angles during the fight, then what kind of actual asset to the raid am I? A mythic raider should know the fight well enough that if they ever have to re-adjust, they will be able to do so quickly and efficiently and still continue competent output.

[@LHSPRIDE]

+Ian Murray thats true. however youre missing the point. its the fact that EVERYONE in the raid has to re-adjust all because 1 person has to move.

[@UIMcocodog]

+Ian Murray in principle you're rite. the practicality of what he's saying is that if everyone does perfect from their main position no one will ever have to adjust from their main position. thats not to say you shouldn't know the fight from all angles... but as a whole team who knows exactly where to be and what to do. there is no "bigdick im more asset then you huuur" when you do this kind of strat perfect, its only gear at that point, which (to be fair the way drops work atm) is nothing to do with you. your just 1 cog in a great guild. get over your stupid dps hype i supose is the main message.....

[@anwaralexander3035]

great video as always Preach. Thanks for the info

[@tommyshowgun]

Much needed video and appreciated Preach. Fucking awesome video

[@AwesomeArgonanth]

Huh... I've always noticed that people end up grouping up over time when they are supposed to be stacked but I never actually thought about it actually being just because 1 person never moves back. I always thought it was obvious that when you move for an ability you move back after to keep everyone spread out, never thought/noticed that one person could cause everyone else to get screwed so badly. I mean, why wouldn't you move back to where you just where since you know it was working and no one else was near you, why wouldn't you want to be there again?

[@MajkaSrajka]

btw: does people use message macros in WoW (for example - macro with "/y Go back to your spots!" when they see someone nearby goofing around or not noticing something? Sure, it can be looked as douchy leadering around etc., but it is still the team game, and if you can send informatic macros without loosing time on it, if they arent super annoying for everyone (or just if they get used to them) they could be REALLY benefitial, if you avoid serious stuff this can be worth way mroe than managing your CDs etc. (and you can do both anyway, if you are badass enough).

[@stevetaylor4232]

love this stuff preach keep doin it

[@NecxZhor9]

I notice I do more dps in Mythic Dungeons, without the buff I get in random heroics. I wonder if it's this

[@lv100Alice]

billys...............takeing our spots taking our loot

[@williamgreen3492]

thank you for this preach

[@arxuicy]

Yeah it's Crucial on a fight like Ragnaros Surely there are new bosses like the reaver in this video It's been a long time since i raided. Pardon my fox tongue.!

[@KoreanBronze]

i am a frost dk the Truffle Shuffle is my jam

[@AndersMurberg]

why is there a person riding around on his mount

[@woody6319]

Hey preach been watching you for ages know great vids. Please could make a tutorial on joining a raiding guild.

[@Tobeh]

Could it be the past near fanaticism over logs and personal DPS being the metric that earns you your spot in a raid has, in turn, made this truffle shuffle a problem?

[@TeddyParker]

60fps is fucking amazing GG youtube

[@snazzel8312]

The Kansas City Shuffle?

[@GriffinLKVW]

What happened to the class guides? It's been forever :(

[@Hyzen0_0]

I got Invincible's Reigns today. No relevance to the vid, in just so happy :-)

[@nunoguerra2117]

This was my raid team... Seeing this happening from a tank perspective, which is never an issue to us, is something that makes my blood boil. Raiding is a matter of logic which ppl apply to almost every other game out there, except MMO's. Why, I just don't know... people are too concerned with their class rotation and performance and they never seem to move away from that aspect. You should have your personal performance in auto-pilot mode and focus on the encounter. Yet healers and dps'ers have 2 things on their mind: procs and meters.

[@nearbylegends]

Why was the blood elf on the mount still?

[@tranquilkitten]

+nearbylegends fight didnt start yet

[@trojanhorsey]

Great advice, Great explanation without being elitist. nice one preach :D

[@CoachNuke]

Hey Preach. You mentioned a video doing a raid / player analysis of Sparkuggz. Can you link me the video or put it in the description? Things might still be true today so I'd like to watch it. Didn't find anything via the search function and went back 2 years on your video history and didnt find something screaming "Raid analysis" or something similar at me. Greetings Nuke

[@suntiger745]

+Coach Nuke Look over the Workshop videos. It's one of them. :)

[@phillipgarris7959]

Only sad thing is tanks also mess this up as well not just dps and healers the diffrents is everyone moves when a tank moves

[@lewiswilliams3748]

What happened to the class guides? Are they gone or just holding them back?

[@MorgQ7]

what's the addon your using to cast renew so effectively i just started healing recently and I've been looking for a good way to spread my Disc priests shields out onto my group members without having to take my eyes off the tank to much

[@lyrisea1935]

+The Chubby Atheist It looks like he's using Grid and Healbot or something, the.. click to heal adon.

[@NoRestHolds]

always did this in pve, but didn't know it was a thing. just sort of picked a spot i liked and tried to stay there.

[@nightsgasp]

still your best video

[@honnycorns1]

I dont even move from that ability, I let the healers deal with it so I can do more damage!

[@aboxofcheese4788]

Shuffle Shuffle

[@herogamer555]

Hey Preach, what are your thoughts on the leaving of several key members of Method? I know players come and go in the top end scene a lot, but these were several core members that left. Any comments?

[@TehFabled]

+herogamer555 if you read the blog, it seems to be a management related issue. Like I found it weird that raid leading duty went from roger brown to kuznam all of a sudden. Not to mention, the race isn't as thrilling considering they beat out 2nd place by like 1-2 weeks consistently this xpac

[@harrison1735]

+Teh Fabled IIRC both Method and Paragon have canceled raid nights early this xpac when the other got an end boss kill first, because you have to keep in mind that continuing to push immediately after someone else won the race is likely to be nonproductive with a demoralized raid.

[@TehFabled]

Harrison Greeley They might call that night, but the races were in fact, MUCH closer, with second place usually being within 2 days or so. But if we just look at wipe counts alone, it shows method is just WAY ahead of paragon

[@harrison1735]

Method had a lower wipe count on some high-value bosses like Gorefiend, Manny, and Archie, but a higher wipe count on everything else in HFC. But all that aside, the biggest impediment to the world first race being competitive again is not the relative skill levels of players at the top end, but the ability to commit absurd amounts of preparation with 100+ hour raid schedules and split runs.

[@zellcrs]

this is a thing that is hard to do as melee when switching to range I feel, like I do kind of get my own spot, usually left side of boss, for lyfe.....but yeah melee isnt' as important beyond the sometimes guys be 6 yards apart okay easy done it's a big boss not a tiny boss

[@hatescreen]

this video reminded me of blackhand i was always on the right when rest of melee on left to avoid bombs and would bitch at people for following me so much i got Preach marked for melee to follow and i stayed on the other side

[@jamminbenny]

This is why I play melee dps; I get to move as much as I want! :D

[@jmbrady1]

utility > all

[@ColinB999]

Goddammit Billy move back to your own spot!

[@thesmart1000]

Legacy of the Monk #hype

[@Spewaks]

Duly noted preezy each

[@ElPincheDruk]

mind blown, fo reelz

[@frostyc2199]

Am I the only one who read this vid's title as "Raid Prostituting"?

[@cr0w-qz277]

Just face tanked the barrage there preach...

[@TomsWhip]

+The Crow That was the whole point... To leave the image of the entire raid's movements and reactions intact.

[@jerod5636]

+The Crow Did you not listen to him, specifically, very clearly say "I know I'm going to eat a couple of barrages but that's ok it's so you can see the movement of the raid?"

[@cr0w-qz277]

Jerod Fontenot this comment was made before that