Rambling on Adeptus Titanicus

[@gozewstuffnthings5837]

Luv the minis Luv the theme h8 the cost h8 the blandness of lists

[@Alex-hp2rs]

simple as!

[@BrickworksDK]

Completely agree on the lists. It's an unfortunate side-effect of Games Workshop's current obsession with using formations. The obligatory Maniples will eat most, if not all, of your points unless you're playing at high point levels. And that leaves very little room for building interesting lists. To make things worse, I think they really missed the boat on the titans themselves. According to the fluff, the chaos titans were already deeply corrupted by the time the Siege of Terra took place. This would have been a golden opportunity for some crazy modelling and painting, but instead we get identical titans - save for the paint scheme - battling it out. We have yet to see a true difference between loyalist and traitor titans, when that should have been the most important aspect of the game.

[@gozewstuffnthings5837]

I am here over a year later. I bought into the game last month, recent updates enabled more varied gameplay and it has enough minis for variety. Really liking it at this point.

[@miketike3246]

This is why I love this channel. Macca is one of the few out there who has the balls to give an actual, balanced assessment of a game that addresses the good and bad. AT is a game that for me perfectly sums up my love/hate relationship with GW. I very much want to get into this game, it's a refreshing change of pace and scale from the 28mm 40k and fantasy I've been playing for so long. But the prices make me so angry. Obviously it's selling and there will always be enough gamers who will pay the prices and keep the products flowing. But just because there are gamers willing to buy it doesn't make the prices RIGHT or FAIR. This is what GW does every single time. They bust your balls in the most irritating, round about, indirect ways. Every time you're spending like $200 you ALMOST get what you need to play but they leave out the stuff that they know you'll want to truly have a complete game. Those damn $100 city terrain sets should be INCLUDED, the FULL sets should be INCLUDED in the damn starter boxes! They should give you twice the number of mechs in the starter boxes for the price they are charging. Those are 6mm f'n terrain sets. They don't have the value in them that GW is claiming they do. They just don't. I can go on Etsy and get a bundle of 6mm city terrain and for the same price GW is charging and get 10X the amount of actual terrain pieces. But even worse, they have the arrogance to even split up TOKENS and CARDS into cleverly disjointed packages so that you have to buy three boxes of something to get all the tokens, etc. Since when are f'n TOKENS considered "addons" to a game? You make a game that requires things on the battlefield to be marked for clarity and ease of play. And so when you sell me your basic game I only get SOME of the tokens or SOME of the cards? Jesus, I mean that's like buying the game Monopoly and only getting half of the money, half of the real estate cards and only one of the two decks of event cards! And then you sell me a Monopoly "booster pack" that has the rest of the stuff, stuff which should have been included in the original f'n game in the first place! For me it's getting really old and stale that spending $250.00 is a "starting point." Why can't $250.00 be an "ending point" for once? Why can't I spend $250.00 and get a truly complete game package that for once surprises me and not only has more models and more terrain than expected, but also includes rules and campaign books, and a bag of static grass to texture the bases, and all the tokens and maybe even some bonus, custom tokens? And Forgeworld, don't even get me started. I can get an entire battle force of five Battletech mechs for the price of ONE 6mm scale Forgeworld addon weapon? What the hell? If you're spending $100+ on a single 6mm scale f'n titan you should get those weapons options WITH the titan INCLUDED in that price. Period. This company makes really cool games and really cool models. But they are just so god damn arrogant, and they know they are gouging people, because they know that people will pay. But that doesn't make it right.

[@Marlena_M]

Would love some more Battletech talk Macca!

[@Donmegamuffin]

Hi Macca, great video! I'm somebody who collects and (tries to) play Titanicus as their primary game. This video is honestly pretty spot on across the board, and quite impressive as an outsider to the game. I'm just gonna take the time to make some comments on bits and pieces here and there: 1:30 Rules: Yeah, there's a hell of a lot of books to collect, and they've gone down the Necromunda / Bloodbowl / Black-books route of piecemeal rules bits here and there, with focuses on individual things in each book, but the majority of the book being Missions, Lore, art, and narrative stuff. Additionally though, they've copied the Necromunda strategy of compiling the "Gang War" books' rules into a bigger hardback, and that's what they've done with the "Loyalist Legios" book which, for the most part, has compiled all of the rules from the previous expansion books and put them in one place (including Campaign, FAQd weapons, Special Titan types, strategems, knightly banners, etc rules). The only bits missing from that book are non-legio fluff, the Traitor Legio rules + fluff, a subset of the Maniples which were (lore-wise) typically used by the Traitor Legios, and other Traitor-legio focused odds and sods. So now, unless you want all of the lore, the Rule book + Loyalist Legios together will give you all the updated rules necessary. Unless you're focusing on playing Traitor Legios, which just means you have to wait for that book instead. 3:40 Titans upgrade weapons: You're absolutely right, the pricing of kitting out a full Titan with all the options is absurd if you're going down the route of 100% WYSIWYG, especially in Aussie-bucks. Less so here in the UK (the Warlord upgrade sprue is £26 [$47 AUS]. Just note that the additional weapon sprues are pretty much a bum deal, and you're better off getting one of each Titan variant (e.g. Reaver / Reaver with Melta + Chain fist) as you'll then get access to both weapon sprues just with the boxes. Thankfully, very few people in the community care about WYSIWYG for weapons most of the time, especially if it's the forgeworld upgrades (though a lot of people do go WYSIWYG anyway). (I'll continue to talk about Titan pricing later) 7:30 Warbringer Nemesis Woes: A lot of us in the community were expecting a Warlord/Reaver-like second plastic box release with different arms and different top mount, but alas that doesn't seem to be the way they're going with it. We've been trying to find out if the top mount is included or not, but it seems like it isn't, which is a real pain in the arse and probably the worst weapon release done yet. The Warbringer has ended up getting relegated to somewhat of a support Titan role because of the lack of Maniples it can be built into without Legio shenanigans which is a shame, but it still does have a place as a cheaper, backline, long distance sniper/artillery Titan 11:10 FW Knights : Over priced, and the layer-lines were disappointing. Luckily, my casts they weren't too noticeable and after priming had disappeared entirely, but the fact they're visible at all is a bit disappointing, especially at the price. The plastic knights however are generally better priced and they're the ones that will form the core of any Knight Lance that you'll be using. The FW ones form specialist role knights that seem to be there more for fluff than anything else. 12:30 Rules: I think a lot of us love the game doubly for this fact: I think they're probably the best rules GW have put out in recent memory, and makes for an incredibly detailed game with such a small number of models, each one feeling like it's got its own important role in the match. I have no experience with Battletech outside of the Computer Game version, but the rules definitely had a lot of stylistic similarities. I think what's important to note is that Titans are less like "units" in the 40k sense, and much more like entire detachment slots, encompassing all the different units that could fit into that slot. You bring up the case of the double-power claw Warlord Titan meme load-out. With the orders you'll be using on it, and the special rules from your choice of maniple, legio, weapon upgrades, etc, functionally it's the same "heavy-support"-like "detachment slot" as another Warlord Titan running double Volcano Cannons and Missiles, but they'll end up playing like entirely different units in a 40k sense, only sharing the same chassis. Same goes for the other Titans: All the other little customisable details of each chassis makes them incredibly diverse in terms of play-style despite being the same Titans at face-value. The choice of Maniples and Legios can completely shift the way the Titans function on the tabletop, a really good example of this being the all-Warhound maniple that effectively turns your army into the equivalent of 40k Genestealer Cults, starting on the board as blips on the map and coming out of cover like cult ambush, where you then have to employ lots of hit and run tactics, and flanking manoeuvres to win. Also, Knights are very useful, and though not as interesting as Titans to play for the most part, definitely have their own niches they fill, and playing them as full houses can be very enjoyable with access to all the extra knightly house rules! 13:40 Pricing: I'd argue Adeptus Titanicus: The Horus Heresy is possibly the cheapest starter box GW has put out in the past 4 years or so: £67.50 from my local hobby shop, for a completely viable full army, at a regularly played points level, with absolutely everything else you need to play it: quite the rarity for a GW release. I think the Grandmaster Edition original release was a major mistake that really set off the game on the wrong foot as being expensive. Another recent release was the Precept Maniple Battleforce box, at around 2000 pts, with 1 Warlord, 1 Warbringer, 1 Reaver, and 2 Warhounds giving you a complete choice of what to use for £82.50. It's a massive pain though that it was such a limited release, as it really was a huge cost saver, at around 45% the price of what GW was asking for separately. Whether it's because GW wants to try to push the game more or something else, the bundle deals that have come out for A.T. have been pretty much their best deals they've put out for any of their game systems in recent memory! You also nailed it with respect to expensive terrain: Play on natural environments with big features like sandy cliffs made of foam, as they're much cheaper and give the same gameplay decisions. Otherwise, the buy in for the city terrain is very expensive. There is a guy releasing a lot of 3D printable terrain based on the scale and it's excellent, but you'll need your own printer for that. Either way, great video and was interesting hearing your perspective. Cheers Macca!

[@lochurquhart1499]

Nobody gives more honest reviews than mr circle, they're the best reviews, possibly ever, believe me.

[@Klajnepojken]

@@KuK137 That's some pretty edgy stuff you've got going there. Do you have any more?

[@shaneflickinger]

I remember being really excited about Titanicus a few years back when they announced it, but my excitement was immediately squashed when I saw the prices. Haven't really looked back into it since. Instead, I've gone back to an old favorite -- Battletech. In high school used to play as much Battletech as 40k, maybe even slightly more for a few years there. I think Battletech is a great system (though not perfect by any means), and I love the "stacking" nature of the rules where you can play it essentially as a board game right out of the box, expand it to a basic miniatures game, and expand it even further with vehicles, infantry etc with books like Tactical Ops and Stategic Ops. And if you want to do larger 40k style games there is always Alpha Strike. Cheers man.

[@jeradwood8964]

On behalf of the community, just want to say *_Thank You_* Macca for your _Even-handed_ -&- _Honest_ accounting of what *WORKS* in 30K/40K/AoS........and what _Doesn't._ Most channels don't have the courage (or financial incentive, if you catch my drift: rhymes with 'Promo Material') to be so Honest & Straight-forward w/ their critiques.

[@colinmack8655]

@@KuK137 make your own channel I am sure you will do well. Other than that haters gonna hate.

[@Gerendiell]

@@KuK137 I had some differing oppinions on 30k-content, contacted him and we managed to have a civilized talk about it. Seems more then what you are doing here.

[@cablesalad3168]

Solid video, despite the fact that I couldn't care less about Adeptus Titinycus and Idon'tcareonautica Imperialis and such.

[@redsampler2017]

same... looks great but not the real 40k size, it just doesnt do it for me. bought 2 of the AT industrial manufactorum scenery kit however, those bits are great for 40k kitbashings. like powergenerators, fuel tanks and ammo stashes ;-)

[@cablesalad3168]

@@redsampler2017 That's actually not a bad idea. How well does the scenery and stuff scale with 40K?

[@redsampler2017]

@@cablesalad3168 its about a 1/4th th the size of 40k it works for me ever since i saw it i knew the purposes i had for it. its just great for detailing stuff and adding more depth to my army, i wanna make an armory and a ammo/fuel dump munitorum thinghy well to me its an excellent way to add oil tanks and special weapon containers etc etc

[@1kizhun]

The battletech comparison is rather apt when its just a little older than GW's wh40k and titans ,nice one

[@johnashley-smith4987]

Battletech actually predates both. I first encountered Battletech in around 85-86. I bought Rogue Trader in 87, on sight, but didn't buy the original Adeptus Titanicus box the following year, in 88. Still regretting it bitterly!

[@1kizhun]

@@johnashley-smith4987 Ah Rogue Trader £3.50 for 3 space marines but GW kept the Rogue part alright near £20 for a high rank or character marine now the cheeky.....

[@johnashley-smith4987]

Tell me about it! 45$ , plus tax here for a single character model. Needless to say...I don't buy many characters, or many models these days either!

[@1kizhun]

@@johnashley-smith4987 oh seeing the prices in $ and ¥....bruh!! ... thats scary

[@erraticuk]

Remember old GW would cast any bits you needed. Now you can wait over 3 months and counting for main items that are out of stock. Oh and the Precept Maniple Battleforce is already "No longer available" Blink and miss it.

[@smorre4004]

A far cry from when GW would release Collectors' Guides. I had one for Orcs & Goblins that showed all prices for miniatures and the separate parts.

[@alexanderz8052]

I do think the battle maniple box looks like a good starting point as well. Luckily for terrain there are 3rd party cardboard (tt combat for dropzone commander 22 pounds for a full board), mdf (foreground i think?, tt combat as well) and 3d print (grim darl terrain by broncofish, free files on thingiverse) options. Wanna get in on it as well and not break the bank

[@alexanderz8052]

To add to this. Grim dark terrain has licensed merchants that sell his stuff you can get it in Aus, the us and europe: grimdarkterrain.com/merchants/

[@ExileDCC]

Getting Started Battletech would probably end up very quick. Buy the starter box of your choice or go budget with a lance/star pack of your choice for 20-25 USD, jump onto the internet and head to Masterunitlist and grab any additional Alpha Strike cards you want for the era(s) you want to play and off you go. Classic can be learned later once you get the mechanics down.

[@RyoCanCan]

If I'm getting into AT at some point, I'll just print everything. Not worth sinking that much moolah into starting something.

[@IVIaskerade]

Honestly Titanicus isn't too difficult to get into and frankly most of the books aren't necessary. If you buy the starter set and the Loyalist Legios book, you're all set for what you need. Oh, and your costing for the warlord is a little too high since the titan already comes with one set of plastic sprues in the box, so if you want all of the options for it you need to buy the other sprue and FW weapons, not both plastic sprues.

[@miketike3246]

Go do a quick Etsy search for 3D printed "Battletech" and look at the quality of the products and the prices Etsy vendors are charging. Then go to GW and Forgeworld's sites. Yeah, GW is an arrogant company that gouges the living s**t out of you. It is not worth what they charge for this game. Period.

[@gozewstuffnthings5837]

The volcano cannon can just be done by cutting a slot out of the bottom of the thing, and making cuts into the side struts cutting off the outer half of the circle. slots on, doesn't drop and no magnets required etc.

[@oliverp3545]

It will never not be ridiculous that when you buy titans on Forgeworld you don't get the weapons with the pain model.

[@wizard0313]

I would just like to add that those Battletech prices are a bit higher than their actual price, as all the Clan Invasion boxes were coming out mid-Covid, so not every store has proper stock. Hence people selling on EBay for higher prices. Once every store will get proper stock, you won't see them that high of a price

[@docvaliant721]

I can find them for cheaper on ebay or 3rd party then at catalyst.

[@wizard0313]

@@docvaliant721 Yeah, but unlike GW, I don't mind fully supporting Catalyst seeing as how they aren't over pricing everything

[@thirdimpact172]

im so glad you brought up the print lines. i 3d model and resin print, and whenever i see a gw preview image with obvious layer lines i point them out and get called crazy by loyalists who dont even understand what im even talking about.

[@Tillman581]

I remember when it dropped I was in a local shop to pick up some painting stuff and thr guy was like 'hey, want to see something cool?' He had to send back their whole stock because, for some reason, they had gotten Spanish versions of thr game, so we were looking through things. Thought it was cool, asked how much it would be, and when he rattled off the price of a single Titan I went 'NOPE!' Even the store owner was like 'yeah, figured as much, no one wants it because of thr price...what were GW thinking.' When thr guys selling it can't justify it? When it's WAY cheaper to get into normal 40k, which is already ridiculous? Yeah, you have a problem!

[@OzymandiasRex]

Warhounds with Ursas-claws all the way!

[@endlesswaffles6504]

I'm kind of wondering how popular the specialist games. I know some people are really into it, but everyone I know plays 40k and Sigmar. 1 friend owns Bloodbowl, but plays mostly 40k.

[@burialgoods]

Fuck that. Just print it all

[@chrisjohn6901]

One good thing is that the new loyalist legio book (and yhe sure to be coming traitor book) means that a new player doesn't Have to buy all the campaign books that came previously, as the rules are reprinted there (mostly). One bad thing is that there were limited run stratagems and special titan cards which have never been re-released, which is incredibly annoying.

[@themantisman9756]

Just as a heads up on the warbringer: The arms are pre-recessed for magnets, as are the guns it comes with. It specifically uses reaver guns on the arms, so you can just buy/use spares of the reaver guns with only a single magnet needing to be added to the reaver weapon sprues they sell. They aren't miss-scaled, and I'd be more than happy to send you some pics of mine to confirm this. The thing with the volcano cannon is pretty shady, and they should have just included a turntable for the new weapon, as those just pop in and out with 0 magnetization required and even the most amature of hobbiest would have designed it that way. It's either the designers not knowing what they're doing in the slightest or a cooperate minded decision to sell more Warbringers. No need to overblow a non-issue when the focus should be the actual problem though.

[@matso3856]

I started with "space marine" , and I miss the infantry too much to jump to this system , so removed bases and fitted smaller ones to be allowed in 6mm tournaments :) (Epic Armageddon)

[@Kharmazov]

A 28mm Warmaster would be nice.

[@willnox1]

Glad to hear FW basically took down most upgrade kits/weapons.

[@Josco83]

Excellent video! Just from what you showed, I don’t think magnetizing the volcano cannon would be worse than magnetizing all Helbrute options. It would be great if they’d at least make an effort to throw us a bone on that kind of thing.

[@NapoleonicWargaming]

AT is classic FW. It's not for beginners, its not for the poors. Its an elite system for elite gamers. I love it

[@Kharmazov]

Or those who happen to have a resin 3D printer;-)

[@eruantien9932]

But here's the thing; the last iteration of AT used smaller models - they increased the scale to... price people out of playing?

[@terryr9052]

It may be a good game but it is obviously overpriced.

[@docvaliant721]

Enjoy playing with your toys by yourself while having no money 🤡

[@armholeeio]

Look at Z gauge train terrain for some cheaper terrain options

[@benjaminbraghtley515]

The new Precept ,amiple box is awesome to get into the game.

[@AJB2K3]

I started collecting in the 90 with Spacemarine and titan legions when I saw a new version of AT i was excited but now the costs and lacklustre rulebooks leave me underwhelmed. Mind you, moving to 8mm from the old 6mm results a much nice detailed models.

[@docvaliant721]

To many books. 600 for a whole army I thought was pricey but one model thats insane. Battletech is a better stompy robots game. Far cheaper with a huge amount of lore.

[@wraithship]

Good video but the biggest problem with titanicus as far as I'm concerned..... You can't play Xenos. Even orks or Eldar 😢 (I know it's HH, but still)

[@conanlucas6183]

The warbringer rules state it uses reaver weapons and the top mount you don't glue the base plate and it slots in and out

[@garkorr8158]

they are getting better at the rules now, the new loyalist book comes with all the maniples, legios, knight houses and weapons you need.

[@ryanbuckman1731]

Your best bet would be the princep box, it comes with two warhounds, a reaver, warbringer and warlord with their card, $185 you save $140

[@kwalkrkcco4397]

I would have picked up the new Nemisis weapon IF it came with the platform. Without that platform I just use it.

[@ScreamingTc]

Yeah, I forget how much Australia is fucked in the butt with pricing. In a pure conversion rate, the cost of the starter box should be $175 (UK price: £95), but I have no idea how much import taxes and shipping adds onto the cost, but I find it hard to believe that it pumps it up by $75 to $250. That's not taking into account third party discounts, which normally means we're only paying $130 for the starter box. The Princeps box at $310 adds a premium of $110 to the UK equivalent pricing. In UK terms it's a relatively cheap system to get into: Combining the Princeps box set and the starter box you're looking at paying £160 ($290), third party prices (Only insane people pay for GW prices when other sites offer them up for 20% cheaper). If you're running a Loyalist Legio, the new book is all you need if you're not looking for scenarios and lore, so another £28 on top. Maybe throw in another Warlord titan (£52) and you're set up for running most maniple types... So that's £240, or $435. The minute you go with official Aussie pricing and it almost double in price to $815... ¬¬

[@ironbomb6753]

I just got into AT, knowing that most model kits do not include the required command card or weapon cards. I don't know who I'm more mad at, myself or GW for the (as per usual) fleecing of me the, the husk of a customer. Ah well, this stuff is just too cool.

[@benn1181]

The book to mini ratio seems way off

[@knoxminis1211]

GW dropped the ball here with the initial release of AT and that first box. The current starter box is what they should have released. People complain about the prices, but in reality, is it any different than any other GW game? I mean were people really expecting this to be affordable? lol

[@Pikkabuu]

Might be a little simping argument, but IMO GW hobbies are expensive, and as expensive as the AT minis are you don't need many of them! Also as armies are small even I can get a painted army on the tabletop! So yeah. The minis might cost a bit but you don't need many of them and man is the game good!

[@handlinitificould]

Kinda hoping we get a Knight Dominus for titanicus ngl

[@handlinitificould]

I should specify I only recast for this stuff

[@Tillman581]

I want a psi-titan for 40k, I play Sons and would kill for one.

[@handlinitificould]

@@Tillman581 That would be amazing

[@adamfox1669]

Tiny titans...which are more expensive than 40k large tanks. Hmmmm

[@youtubevanced4900]

GW nickle and diming the customers forever

[@mr_ThreeEight_1776]

For $600 i can just buy an actual warlord

[@paulgibbons2320]

Yeh the game itself has a few issues. Read hours hersey since the 80's I can't really bring myself to read law anymore. In this style of game it gets in the way of the game your back an forward in the rule book looking for one rule you need. As for Legios. You chose one when you start. People literally do rebuy All their titans to get new rule buffs. It shocks me tbh. My mate played. Someone chose a legio which gave warhound strength 9 hit vulcan mega bolta hits. Charge into close range.. Insta kill. So he was instantly done with it. I played the broken Acastus nights once. My two awesome looking expensive warlords spent all game hiding behind buildings. Which tatally sucked. Two negative play experiences now they look great on the shelf. But, the experience of building and making the models is fab. They are wonderful kits. But its a rich boys toy. It was pure nostalgia which sucked me back in. I loved the 2nd edition. An it looks like they are rereleasing that. So watch closely. Price point would need to be amazing.

[@bigcoliber4864]

Hell yeah dude

[@CatWithAHat2HD]

It's so outlandish that the biggest wargaming company out there has a release policy that boils down to drop feeding its product to the consumer base. I can understand a smaller "indie" company releasing its product in steps - they might lack the capital to make the whole thing in one go, they don't know what the market response to it will be. GW? They know that the consumers will eat up more or less whatever they release and they have more than enough money to do larger releases. . Instead what we get, regardless if it's a new/revisited faction in one of the main line games or a spinoff game, is undercooked releases followed by a slow drip of content to flesh them out. The result, on the early adopter, consumer side, is that the product is only really as good as it could have been years after you bought into it. It feels like a Paradox grand strategy game: only worth potentially buying after it had years worth of DLC added to it. Except Paradox will let you do that with occasional big timed discounts, so you don't have to pay 400 USD for the video game, so the buyin isn't that bad if you're willing to time it right. With GW there is no solution like that. You either buy the product, one "DLC" at a time, and accept that you're basically playing an unfinished game, or years in, you have to pay a huge admission fee for something you're not sure you will actually like.

[@titobenito43]

I had a titan maniple once and inevitably sold it Nobody to play with. Thats most of my wargaming experience. Why am I in this hobby.

[@basition]

What? Why are you being charged 60 for the inner command Lance? I get charged less than the clan stars and it comes out to like 35 cad. Macca being from Iron winds is cheaper than that and they're all metal (and occasionally the scuplt is good) you're being gipped my dude. Also it's an odd thing to bring up battletech because CBT is usually not wysiwyg ignoring the recent weapon packs via ironwinds

[@Cynidecia]

Wait these are 6mm scale Ahahahahahaha

[@benpaterson2237]

First comment!

[@100thmonkey]

It's a shame you've gone to such lengths to over-exaggerate the cost of this game, and discourage new players. It's nowhere near as prohibitive as you make out, and you even describe that yourself in the part about getting the Starter Box, adding a Warlord, Warbringer, etc. - and being careful about which extra weapons options you buy. - If people can afford Knights in 40K they can even more easily afford Titanicus.

[@whocares5946]

I mean do you even need to buy extra weapons? He made it seem like WYSIWYG is written page one of the rules, and then compares it to battletech, a game where you can field completely custom mechs using cardboard cutouts.

[@big_daddy_d1547]

Why not play titanicus with real titans