Riders this was LOADS of work I hope it's useful, Any questions just ask
@SP-ss4uo2 жыл бұрын
Did you put control tyre on all the bikes?
@emtbtrailrider5392 жыл бұрын
Definitely make the eBikes more equal, Yeti 160e or SC Heckler for the next review lol
@rickbault12212 жыл бұрын
Interesting to see how the four motors compare. Thanks for giving us a chance to get some Schwalbe tires too!
@julianhoward37802 жыл бұрын
I love it when you make videos where you have to ride heaps. Onya old man
@Extremegaz252 жыл бұрын
@ honestly from my experience, if you live in the uk, the specialised levo isn't reliable, water ingress, tested for an couple of hours- fault, brand new bike. My brother has a 2022 levo, 3rd time back in the shop, I've got a trek 2021, all year no faults and not been near shop apart from new tyres and brake pads.
@ambrose18212 жыл бұрын
My height is 190cm and my weight is 82kg, I have a Megamo Crave 05 AL with Shimano EP8 with 630wh battery, I have never drained the battery but I have done 2 times in eco mode all the time, 61-62kms with 1500mts+ and the display still had 2 lines of 5, i am sure that I can do 15 more kms of range if they are not more. I'm very happy with this bike and his range.
@andywaldner81102 жыл бұрын
Sam, great video (s) , I really appreciate the efforts you put into them. Your channel and website is a great source of information and provides E-MTB fans with what they need to make a decision. In case a new bike is not on the current "to do" list, watching your videos is still amazing entertainment. Thanks from Germany.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Andy thar really means a lot!
@MrAndrewAu2 жыл бұрын
Giant's new Syncdrive is really good. I can confirm that.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Me too!
@ddsgardening74372 жыл бұрын
Giant is a winner all round ,from distance to the best value for money 💰 🤑 💸 👏 👍 👌
@ionut.h2 жыл бұрын
Awesome test Sam! It’s a pity that most new exciting bikes are with the shimano ep8 motor. I would love to see a bike like the new Scor bikes (Awesome bikes IMO) with the Bosch motor.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Yep I agree for my personal riding I would not be looking at a ep8 unless it’s got atleast a 720 battery
2 жыл бұрын
@@SamsBikes That is what I believe too!
@julesharman64272 жыл бұрын
This is due to Shimano not requesting a bike manufacturer to take many thousands of units up front. Hence the more boutique manufacturers can order in tens/hundreds assisting cash flow.
@ionut.h2 жыл бұрын
@@julesharman6427 On the other hand I think Shimano also doesn't enforce manufacturers to use their proprietary battery solutions. This is why we see nice designs like Orbea Rise that integrated the EP8 with their own custom battery. Don't think Bosch allows that and I think they are limiting the innovation of bike manufactures.
@porschepaul2952 жыл бұрын
Great test! I’d like to know the difference between the Giant Syncdrive PW-X3 and the standard Yamaha unit in the Haibike Nduro7?
@TCK712 жыл бұрын
Great video, really appreciate the effort you have to put in to make this test happen.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Glad you liked it!
@chrismarshall2602 жыл бұрын
Wicked review Sam!! I got my hands on a Reign e+2 about 3-4 weeks ago....and I'm absolutely froffing it!! Funny you say it feels like it does the work for you, I basically never go above level 3 and only use level 4 on the steepest climbs or late in my rides. Interesting point to note, the top spec Reign comes with a 720wh battery....would be interesting so see how it stacks up directly with the Bosch!
@chrismarshall2602 жыл бұрын
@ my bad, your right, it's 750!
2 жыл бұрын
@@chrismarshall260 No worries
@hrh18962 жыл бұрын
So I've had an E8000 and now an EP8. RANGE HAS GONE BACKWARDS! The E8000 does 1,300m vertical in my local loop in Boost, the EP8 - 1,050 m. It's a massive disappointment. You simply don't expect the next model of a product to drop 20% performance in a key area, you expect at least the same or better. I wonder if the manufacturers knew this when they selected the EP8? I recon not. I'm guessing the problem wasn't picked up until too late and now, nobody wants to talk about it. It is what it is now. But to Shimano, many people are well pissed. Legally, you wont and probably shouldn't admit it. But do not kid yourselves. It's not a secret. It's an elephant in the room. Many EP8 owners live with this issue and will, as a result be very reticent to buy an Shimano equipped bike in their next model. They will definitely ask if the range problem has been fixed. To the bike OEMs - get independent motor testing completed prior to motor selection. This will hurt you too, particularly as the technology develops and range numbers are published.
@hrh18962 жыл бұрын
To be clear - the 1,300m and 1,050m are consistent and yes same battery size (635Wh). The route is consistent. And no don't blame the torque increase - because as this test shows there are higher torque motors have better range. My range difference numbers are consistent with Sam's. Maybe Sam should take an E8000 for a strap too... Yes it is beautifully natural feeling motor, feels great when riding - but the 20% range loss takes it out of contention for me and I'm sure many others. And Shimano - be aware - it's an annoyance that keeps annoying - very time you go for a longer ride - you are backing off and worrying about range.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Mate I know I have always been disappointed in the ep8 and find it hard to recommend to riders, less power I can deal with but 1/3 less range is a joke.
@dennisduplessis85732 жыл бұрын
Second question is the speed on all the bikes the same .The EP8 25km speed restriction drove me insane trying to keep up with friends on other brands. Had it derestricted from 25 to 35km .now no problem almost crashed trying to clear a gap jump and the motor cut out on 25 it limits the bike to much on clearing jumps .since I got it changed the jumps are not a problem.
@vaughanboyce37022 жыл бұрын
Good review, just brought latest reign + haven't ridden it yet so good to see positive feedback. My current bike is Shimano powered and whilst I like the natural feeling motor the range is terrible and I have 504w battery and ride eco mostly..
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate I think you will be very impressed with the giant system
@SP-ss4uo2 жыл бұрын
On my Merida e160 which is set up mullet with a 2.5 29er assegai exo+ max terra front, 2.6 27.5 butcher black diamond with cushcore in the rear. 625wh battery on full boost i did: 25km 1100 vertical m 1:31 min moving time.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Wow great work
@SP-ss4uo2 жыл бұрын
@@SamsBikes then i switch to my Rocky mountain powerplay for another 20km on full power and im done. Fulll power all the time is the best. Full uphill like a cross country racer and down like a Enduro Racer
@dennisduplessis85732 жыл бұрын
Just a question was all the bikes in full turbo or boost mode for the entire ride .I have the EP8 in my merida and hardly use boost and say 40% trail the rest of the time echo.I still want a good workout 😁😁
@MrOrangeman1811 ай бұрын
great video. been looking at getting these bikes my self. for those who want a move scientific way of looking at efficiency, here is my workings with the average watts per KM (WPK) (lower is better). EP8 @ 27 WPK, Giant @ 23.43 WPK, Brose @ 22.66 WPK and Bosch @22.94 WPK meaning the most efficient here is infact the Brose ;)
@aleszverca2 жыл бұрын
Great test again Sam ✌⚡ love that u mentioned the differences in bikes specs etc...👍⚡
@chuckduck2 жыл бұрын
Great video as usual Sam !
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate
@moonstriker735010 ай бұрын
Hi, I watched few of these tests, yours might the best (most objective since you've drained the batteries), but didn't find anyone testing panasonic motors (fyler bikes f.e., a swiss brand). I rode one as I was lookiong to for good quality used e-mtbs, and it felt super good... strong, snappy, smooth, but can't really say anthing about the range.
@SamsBikes10 ай бұрын
Thanks mate the range is pretty important for me because I like to ride atleast 1200meters per ride
@moonstriker735010 ай бұрын
@@SamsBikes I'd love to wartch you test something with the panasnic ultimate motor too, maybe at the same place.
@SamsBikes10 ай бұрын
Let’s see bro! It’s a question of a company sending me a bike and also it’s not a super popular motor so not sure that will happen but maybe 🤔 maybe you can send a email to Panasonic and tell them to send a bike to SB
@sgtkurry2 жыл бұрын
I just want to note that you were 20% slower on the Giant than on the Mondraker and Levo. The levo and Mondraker avg. right at 17.16 and 17.2mph respectively while the giant averaged 14.29 mph. The EP8 averaged 15.45 mph, so the Giant had your lowest avg speed. I think thats a massive difference in speed between the Brose/Bosch and the Giant. As some one who has the Brose, Bosch CX and EP8 and RS variants I was not at all surprised by the range test. I have the Giant in the same spec coming in and I was curious to how it would do. I do wonder if the Giant is slower to get the better range.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for digging deep into the numbers I did my best to keep it all even next time I’ll have a watt meter abs keep my speed the same bloody hard to do this in the real world
@johnwilliamson94532 жыл бұрын
@@SamsBikes It is soooo much work, but thanks for doing it!
@sgtkurry2 жыл бұрын
@@SamsBikes No problem I enjoy the content. I just wanted to let you know. Overall it mirrors my own personal observations outside of the Giant-Yamaha motor since I dont have a bike with that one yet.
@yehumikael Жыл бұрын
Thanks for noting the average speed, because I own a Giant, Trek, and Specialized. The Yamaha system is good, but it is NOT as fast as the Brose/Bosch systems. What you gain in range with Yamaha/Giant...you lose in average speed over a given ride. Bosch is very strong and delivers power no matter how hard you are pushing. Brose delivers power more smoothly. All are great bikes and systems, but if I had to choose one, I would take the Specialized first, Giant second, and Bosch third.
@ccorraliza12 жыл бұрын
Great test, thank Sam
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@kyled1212 жыл бұрын
Great Sam, really appreciate this real world test. Pity your sit bones though!
@palkoenergies7790 Жыл бұрын
Great job! Have you tried the bofang motors are they god or bad?
@Extremegaz252 жыл бұрын
Sam from my experience the specialised levo isn't reliable, because of water ingress in motor or wiring or tcu. Probably ok in hot climates thou, just no good in blighty.
@simonpage29412 жыл бұрын
Superb content Sam! Some many variables apply that's what makes it so interesting. My EP8 Orange Phase only runs the 504wh battery & I never struggle with my 630ah Bosch riding buddies. They complain that the power in Eco on the Bosch system is pretty much non existent. The EP8 in Eco is excellent....... It really surprised me! Keep up the good work.
@tommurray51562 жыл бұрын
Very true, especially if your cadence is below 70 on the Bosch in eco mode!
@richard70592 жыл бұрын
It’s more for the gravel biker slash commuter rider . These Emtb on eco mode on road in bog stock trim my E160 9000 limited to 25 showed 197km range around Brisbane bike paths
@WeimaranersAreTheBest8 ай бұрын
I was going to buy a yt and only comes with 450...now im scared
@thedestro187 Жыл бұрын
does the engine overheat in the sun and heat?
@manuelmar11422 жыл бұрын
Wheels giant and bosch 29" ,brose and ep8 27 5,+ rear traction 1 giant 29" battery 650 w 2 bosch 29" 650 w 3 brose 27,5+ 750w 4 ep8 27,5+ 625w =example more battery more climp + more big wheel more range ..
@chrissinclair31362 жыл бұрын
Fantastic test Sam. I am very dissatisfied with the range on my Merisa E160 10k...som much so that I am actively looking for a way to swap haha
@SteveBexley104 Жыл бұрын
good to see not too much in it with the top 3
@julesharman64272 жыл бұрын
Sam, genuine sacrifice in the pursuit of science ;-) As you say it’s hard to tell what other factors may play, however seems the trend is towards the Yam, Bosch and Brose which were all close. Have to say if you’ve e done 2000km on the Brose battery it’s still delivering in heaps after many recharge cycles. How many miles had the Giant and Mondraker done ? As we know batteries do loose their range over time. Keep up the pain !
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Thanks mate so much work but I love it...
@chawkins45ify2 жыл бұрын
After lapping your favorite DH trail over and over, back to back you should make another video comparing all of the bikes on how they descend
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
I did think about it but with 2000km on the levo its not a fair test... im alot fast on the LEvo...
@sjaan73702 жыл бұрын
I knew the Yamaha would win all being even 😎
@mtbt0mmy6562 жыл бұрын
With my ep8 I did 3595 ft of elevation with 2 bars left at bpw !
@patrickquinn87062 жыл бұрын
Outstanding. Great information.
@philwebb6062 жыл бұрын
Looking forward to this review
@patrick.771 Жыл бұрын
Could the colder weather have affected the results of the SyncDrive and EP8 motor? I saw a test where the Giant motor had far more reach than the others …
@moonstriker735010 ай бұрын
Cold weather will surely decrease the range of any electric vehicle, often quite severely.
@b_bullish67002 жыл бұрын
Sam a touch off subject but I have seen 5 channels including yours introducing the Kellys Theos F8 almost a year ago .It was supposed to be the big debut of the Shimano motor and Kellys revolutionary new carbon material and the bike looks sic AF. However nobody did a follow up video to showcase how the bike rides. You; Rob Rides; EMBN and a couple other channels all did an intro video and nobody followed up with a review on the bike. Do you know what's up with that? Did you get a chance to ride it? I would love to hear anything you know about it because I want that bike if I can even get it in the US.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Check Rob and Steve they have both ridden it! Unfortunately Kelly’s never applied to me
@FuturePerfectContinuous10 ай бұрын
thank you ❤
@najmanluk2 жыл бұрын
What red mudguard did you gave on the silver/white giant?
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Did I have one? Not sure it would be stock I guess
@joeldsaint2 жыл бұрын
Hi Sam, what smart display did u use? I may have missed it.. thank you
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Garmin 510
@joeldsaint2 жыл бұрын
@@SamsBikes 🙏🏻
@richardseller37332 жыл бұрын
Love it Sam great work as always and especially doing math put them all on 750 watt batteries. We all forget stuff at trail head and improvise, last year I was so excited first ride of the season forgot my helmet
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Haha I forgot my shoes the other day!
@SosoDeSamurai2 жыл бұрын
As i know, the "stock" 630 Shimano Battery is not that great in the range sector and third party Batterys work better with the EP8
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
good to know
@jeffp54182 жыл бұрын
Thanks for all the hard work on this! Boy I just look at all these new bikes coming out with the EP8 motor and can help but wonder if shimano's going to do a complete redo, better be back compatible as well. Do you think the Bosch is still the most powerful punchy motor out of the group?.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Let’s see something has to change for sure! If I was racing I think the bosch has the edge but for anything else all 3 are great
@reiddryden98052 жыл бұрын
Yo You may have to get power meter cranks or pedals to equalise the tests Stay safe
@javilujua52462 жыл бұрын
Lo del motor es a gusto de cada uno tengo una specialized turbo levo 720 de bateria y una ORBEA Rise con 360 y con las dos e llegado justo en rojo , ruta 68 km desnivel 1880 y son diferentes motores si te gusta dar pedales la Orbea y si te gusta subir en moto la turbo levo pero lo que me a sorprendido de la Orbea el consumo y que las subidas casi imposibles que hago con la turbo levo con este motor limitado a 60nt lo e conseguido y tengo probado todos los sitios , diferencia necesita cadencia pero sube y luego en los llanos puedes ir apagado la bici es como una muscular no lastra el peso 19,10 con pedales y la turbo levo 23,40 , son mundos diferentes .
@stefantomasic473 Жыл бұрын
And there iz bafang????
@rogerdodger1790 Жыл бұрын
The range is atrocious in them all. I was considering buying one but forget that, I'll stick to my manual.
@Jeffmtb2 жыл бұрын
So close I was 20. Maybe next time
@texfromro2 жыл бұрын
It is quite wierd because shimano doesn't feel as powerful as bosch for example when tackling steep sections but even so it has the lowest range...
@sgtkurry2 жыл бұрын
Yea, shimano shuts off power earlier than the bosch as you hit the speed limiter. I have the 22 heckler with the 720wh battery and its range is more comparable to my 21 Rail with the 650wh battery and its still overall slower. I also have the 21 Rise with the EP8 RS and with the range extender and its a bit better range wise at max power (60 NM) on boost mode than the 22 heckler. I think Shimano designed the EP8 for people to use in trail mode and at higher cadence but its still IMO the worst of the motors. Personally my ranking right now having also have the 22 Sworks levo in terms of overall power and range: 1. Bosch CX Gen 4 2. Brose 2.2 3. EP8 RS 4. EP8. I have the Giant coming so that ranking may change.
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
Wow you have some bikes! Love to hear how you get on with the giant
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
That’s the point bad on power and range
@johnwilliamson94532 жыл бұрын
@@sgtkurry You just gotta wonder WHY this is. Software, internal resistance, internal gearing...
@tuunaes2 жыл бұрын
@@johnwilliamson9453 Actual design/construction of motor itself can have effect, starting from wire thickness in winding. (EP8 is light so possibly thin wire = higher resistance) Then besides control software, motor controller's circuitry design and used power semiconductors affect losses. Going too light design on those compared to required output power will lower electrical efficiency. Then all mechanical factors from bearings to reduction gearing have effect. For example helical gears used by Shimano create sideway forces in direction of rotation axis and resisting those loads will waste extra power in bearings and also there's sliding action in contacts between gears. (straight cut gears are more efficient with no axial load and no sliding in contacts between gears)
@mkoneuk2012 Жыл бұрын
How does a riders weight change the range? What about the fat guys lol! Can't all be 12 stones soaking wet! 😅
@hendrikl.37312 жыл бұрын
👌🥳
@ntallocatevirtualmemory84882 жыл бұрын
The problem on shimano ep8 is some bike manufacturers use crap cells
@SamsBikes2 жыл бұрын
That’s interesting I would like to do a deep dive on this! I really need to understand the difference in cells haha 😂 any words of wisdom would be amazing
@ntallocatevirtualmemory84882 жыл бұрын
@@SamsBikes 🤣 bosch for example use only samsung 18650 cells in the battery, so every bosch battery is the same,shimano allow bike manufacturers to build custom battery so if they use panasonic cells for example, the battery is not the same if they use samsung cells or sanyo cells...
@DanWood114 Жыл бұрын
@@ntallocatevirtualmemory8488 This is false. Bosch use Samsung, Panasonic and LG batteries. Shimano primarily use Sony/Murata batteries in their own brand batteries. You are correct though in that aftermarket batteries may be any other brand of cell.
@ntallocatevirtualmemory8488 Жыл бұрын
@@DanWood114 best cells are samsung and lg, shimano use other crap cells like sony, that's why shimano battery ALWAYS last less than BOSCH battery....
@onetime2422 жыл бұрын
But you can’t get a 750w battery with all of the motors, so doing a calculation for all of them having a 750w battery is irrelevant. The original conclusion is correct. They should be measured as they come when purchased, not IF they all have the same battery, because they don’t. Otherwise, good test!👍🏼
@sgtkurry2 жыл бұрын
700wh+ batteries are becoming standard now. Ebikes are starting to have the option for range extenders too to take them way above that as well. We are going to see near 1000wh bikes with range extenders this year. The giant has a 250wh range extender available to take it to 900wh.