Ranking Every Destiny 2 Subclass in a Tier List (ft. Mactics & Saltagreppo) | Final Shape

[@waywardjoker6061]

It's gotten to a point where cutting the health of stasis crystals in half would unironically shake the meta and put many builds closer to the spotlight

[@modernprophet5942]

As a chronic endgame arc warlock spammer I actually agree on the A placement. The ad clear potential is actually insane plus the extra dps you can give your teammates with arc souls. Also do not sleep on vesper, it is an insane exotic.

[@Nevada-Ny]

Love vesper

[@db1872]

Vesper with blinding special and indebted kindness is so much fun.

[@ShadowNemesis575]

The problem is that arc lock isn't bad its that other subclasses are significantly better. Sure giving everyone arc soul and running a blinding setup with vespar is good but your average player cannot drive that class well in endgame because you don't have any get out of jail free cards like you do with stuff like stasis, solar, a min maxed void, and don't get me started on strand and prismatic. Like if you look at warlock's subclasses they somehow always manage to have something built into their aspects that makes whole verbs that take massive nerfs still feel better on them because the function fundamentally better on warlock: better at freezing so you have an easier time spreading shatter damage while locking down a whole room, killing one add suspends everything and you have aoe tools that spread it further, just better devour in general, its the only class allowed to have 2x restoration because every other thing that gave it in the game got patched out ect. While the issues with the balance in the aspects and fragments system as a whole are blatant in some areas warlock as a whole is spoiled for choice in terms of builds that can solve any problem in front of you. Don't get me wrong titan and hunter get god builds off and on but warlock will ALWAYS be useful even if whatever's meta for a season gets nerfed because they just move to the next best build and they always have options. Prismatic expanded this massively

[@db1872]

@@ShadowNemesis575 except in PVP where they're always left behind

[@modernprophet5942]

@@ShadowNemesis575 Dont worry my survivability is killing and blinding everything before they shoot back 👍

[@Stingray5k]

Needs more Aegis

[@Avoncarstien]

Speedrunning, minimal-headcount raids and the like are the perspective being omitted here, and it's where something like Strand Warlock does have a few great spots. But it's under circumstances of *maximum* optimization and player skill. More of us will clear a Day 1 raid than will ever play at that level :P

[@furyfist8489]

This guy spittin

[@JandJ]

Honestly, God bless you guys for this. I've been waiting for a pve tier list.

[@interestedanomaly3981]

Imo Prismatic is intrinsically op enough to warrant all 3 in S+

[@Minth_aaa]

Yeah transcendence is very strong on its own. Prismatic titan even has respectable damage output thanks to spirit of star-eaters.

[@imjlu]

Titan also has the best transcendence by a mile, because consecration is strong enough to I one shot groups of champs in GM, and transcendence lets you spam that like no tomorrow, along with having by far the best transcendent grenade in PvE

[@KingGrippy]

No 😂. Hunter deserves S plus not warlock tho, titan prob

[@whatifwaterwaschunky7199]

​@@KingGrippynot warlock? What are you smoking cause I need some of it.

[@KingGrippy]

@@whatifwaterwaschunky7199 dude I use it and it's nothing compared to solar warlock, It's not even worth using prismatic warlock in general. In PVE solar warlock is better as well. I'm not smoking anything it's just facts try it yourself. Throw on speaker sight with song of flame and the right aspects and build and you'll be getting your abilities so much faster than you will on prismatic and you're survivability is way better, in endgame content it makes prismatic not even worth it with how good the solar build is, second best tho. In PVP Icarus dash Is essential so it's not worth using it either. I'll use prismatic in lower tier PvE tho But with how overpowered solar warlock is it just outshines prismatic Plus prismatic warlock isn't as good as people say it is, It's nothing too crazy. Like sure you can run Nova and strand melees and helion and that's cool but it just doesn't compare to solar

[@brainer5457]

As someone who's mained Titan since the beginning I 100% agree with greppo, solar titan > prismatic titan. I'd even go far to say solar titan > strand titan > prismatic titan. Simply because prismatic titan sustain is heavily reliant on consecration kills and with how frenzied blade has a an extremely long CD on prismatic, you are always melee hungry if you do not have transcendence. Eventually you run into the "I'm out of options" problem with prismatic titan and have no way out. But with solar, your hammer is always a guarunteed cure and sunspots providing resto for just passing through it it huge. Strand all you have to do is pick up an orb or destroy a tangle for the DR then get an easy finisher for the healing pulse. It is so free on solar and strand titan. prismatic titan does so much damage and the transcendence grenade is really good for ruining champs, wyverns and tormentors but if you're caught out of position there's no get out of jail free card for you. +consecration hitbox wiffs every now and then.

[@Blanktester685]

Way 2 easy to build transcendent energy lmao

[@Wyrm7774]

Whats your solar build?

[@johnnyhall9154]

Prismatic Titan and Behemoth have been the most fun I've had in GMs since BoW first came out. I recommend trying behemoth in GMs purely for the fun factor

[@NecroAsphyxia]

I feel like the issue with Stasis titan is that it keeps catching indirect nerfs and because Creating crystals everywhere is actively a hinderance to other people. Like.. it feels like it wants to play solo but at the same time lacks the tankiness ore the damage to be solo

[@lingeringdread]

you can easily break crystals, spamming stasis turrets are actively a hinderance, they are annoying, block line of sight, and do no damage.

[@jayman1657]

@@lingeringdreadcalling stasis turrets annoying says a lot about your level of play

[@lingeringdread]

@@jayman1657 relying on stasis turrets says a lot about your level of play

[@jayman1657]

@@lingeringdread I’m assuming you haven’t taken part in this weeks GM or the glassway GM, stasis turrets are top tier in certain areas. Don’t discredit them because you don’t play end game content🤷‍♂️

[@lingeringdread]

​@@jayman1657 My clips show my aggressive up close and personal play-style. I don't need AI bots to aim for me. GMs are too easy.

[@CapKong]

Behemoth pre FS was flat out amazing, and dumb as hell what shit you could do, outside of day one raids Behemoth had amazing builds that helped it, giving insane dr and health regen too

[@michaelferrarini1463]

Interesting panel. Mactics clearly never plays anything other than hunter and salt is Titan Chad. Should’ve had a warlock main. Void warlock was heavily disrespected. It’s not a tier but it’s definitely better than the classes in the A tier above it.

[@whosurjustin]

100%. While I understand their point of opportunity cost, they created a major fallacy where classes that aren't infringed by prismatic are placed higher than classes that do. I.e. Void warlock. Just because prismatic exists, that doesn't reduce the power/potency of other classes. The mere fact of placing prismatic over the mono-subclasses is already telling the viewers that prismatic is better, but it doesn't all of sudden render the other subclass useless. Void warlock is easily A tier, but placing it lower b/c prismatic warlock took all the best void aspects/abilities doesn't make void warlock weaker. It just makes prismatic warlock better; hence ,the S+ ranking of prismatic warlock.

[@PandismLive]

There are sooooo many builds they neglected to talk about on voidlock. Many warlock mains still run it, it’s just not as flashy as prismatic. I think prismatic warlock is better than hunter in the activities they cited to place hunter above it, but I can leave that at the door because at least they got the right tier. Voidlock is easily S tier for GMs and seasonal content, it only struggles with boss dps but still has one of the best damage supers in the game. Little cope but many warlock mains were on it day one until we realized the degree to which still hunt broke the meta.

[@db1872]

They put it B, I'd put it A. Not a huge difference

[@tabinagi]

Void lock is 1 ability. Devour. Period. So Prismatic has the entire Void identity with 1 Aspect. Plus, it does Devour BETTER than Void aside the time extension like Mac said. Better melee in Arcane Needle, better fragment (-10 Disc instead of -20) that does the same thing and better synergy with other damage types/ability cooldowns. Child of the Old Gods with Briarbinds is the only somewhat unique playstyle in the Void subclass it has left. I don't even consider Nothing Manacles to be a unique playstyle on Void. And Contraverse is an extremely boring gameplay loop. Prismatic took Voids identity, that's why it's so low on the list. I agree with B tier placement. Void lock had its lunch eaten by Prismatic.

[@michaelferrarini1463]

@@tabinagi you’re honestly completely right in your assessment. I just think that even though prismatic does what voidlock can do better, that doesn’t make voidlock worse than arc and strand warlock. I’m also a huge lover of Briarbinds so I’m a little biased.

[@xMystic-vn6fp]

Prismatic killed every subclass in 5 seconds lol

[@insomniaddictesp]

If your tier has a lot of things in S+ it’s literally just S, and everything else goes a rank down. I am so sick of inaccurate tier lists because people ignore the literal structure of a tier list.

[@db1872]

I've seen stasis titans do GMs in insane lock down modes using salvations grip. It's truly insane.

[@aTurney03]

As a warlock main, the only time I'm not on prismatic is if there is a pathfinder or seasonal challenge.

[@KingGrippy]

For me it's the opposite

[@ThriveOnEgo_]

in regards to hammer throw nerf, they should make it so that if you spec into STR you have a lower cooldown on throwing it again. it only makes sense.

[@TeezMonkey]

Strand hunter is at least A if not S. Best setup for a suspend build, whirling maelstrom is coated when you know how to build into it and use it. It's definitely on part with arc hunter if not better for harder tier activity in terms of add control and neutralized the battlefield

[@lingeringdread]

Glacial quake is the best hybrid super in the game. It deletes vehicles, tormentors, GM/Dungeon bosses, and multiple champions in seconds. For time gated GM bosses it clears entire chunks of health in a single super. Stasis titan is top tier PVE end game however now with Prismatic stasis in general has become irrelevant because the aspects are terrible. Mactics makes good content but he is being ignorant, delusional, and mainstream on this take. Watch the clips of glacial quake damage; it quickly deals with high value targets better than any other super in the game - a tether combo is even better. Stronghold lament and lance cap with wicked implement, buried bloodline, or revision zero are two of the best GM builds in the game on either prismatic or stasis.

[@Actedd_]

Above can I run stormtrance for the Witness fight?

[@LazerMonarch]

absolutely, huge damage

[@SleazyE007]

I'm happy to see both my favorite warlock builds made it to S+

[@MrNooB-kb9gb]

I mostly do gms and onslaught as a titan main 1 prismatic 2 Berserker 3 Sentinal 4 solar 5 Stasis 6 Arc Honestly arc and stasis titan feel so bad rn because u can have both major ability usage on prismatic titan .....pulse gernades prismatic got u / shatter and destruction prismatic got u .......and facet of ruin is stronger than whisper of fissures ........... And only thing making strand titan good and its still holding its position is just 1 aspect the BOW ......

[@michaelferrarini1463]

I agree with you for GMs, but solar Titan is goated for staying alive in easier content like raids and dungeons. Literally can’t die.

[@MrNooB-kb9gb]

@@michaelferrarini1463 thats true

[@Avoncarstien]

Can't wait to see how well Prismatic Titan holds up without Galvanic ^_^ I feel like you're not considering how exponential DR scaling works. Also Prismatic only gets 5s of Woven Mail from orbs....sans Galvanic for the rest? What DR do you have without that, the animation-based DR? Spooky being in melee in GM content with just that.

[@ItsGBZ]

Mactics is killin it

[@ZackUribe_com]

Good video. One thing I would love to see would be your guys SPECIFIC builds for the classes that you rated S+/S. I.E. Fragments, exotics, weapons, etc. I know there are builds out there..but as creators, you guys have to keep putting out build guides..even if it is less survivable/fun/boss damage to keep feeding the algorithm...and of course, every other build is "God TIer", "Unkillable", etc. It is hard for new lights to tell if the newest video on your list is the "best build" or just one that you have finally got around to creating, but your month old build is better, thus why you used it earlier in the season.

[@TheBigSlugger]

Aegis has videos on all that stuff

[@pencilswordfish]

I'm with Salt on Solar Titan vs Prismatic. Solar Titan is braindead can't die and lets you be chill, Prismatic straight up power but I think it requires a little finesse - because the amount of times I see over-eager Prismatic Titans in GM going in drunk on power and then dying is a lot heh. Solar Titan you gotta screw up to die. Agree on the assessment of the Stasis builds, the class even after the buffs needs more oomph.

[@FarayLNoob]

Balance of power should have made strand hunter super a good one and done so strand hunter can be more used

[@nitram3656]

Bro does not know that prisoatic titan is currently used to speedrun solo gms.

[@lemmingskmt]

He mentioned 1 shouting champs in GMs...and what helped it be in S

[@ZZ3NoO0]

Remember guys, you can run any subclass and still do really well in endgame content. Use what you find most fun 😊

[@slime_ism]

Simply not a factual statement lol

[@ZZ3NoO0]

@slime_ism In what way? Of course there are builds better than others due to their subclass but in reality, every single subclass is capable of making at least a somewhat competent build.

[@slime_ism]

@@ZZ3NoO0 there's a world of difference between "do really well in endgame content" and "somewhat competent build" lmao. Of course you can survive on any class if you're good enough. That doesn't mean there aren't objectively weaker subclasses.

[@ZZ3NoO0]

@slime_ism Of course there are objectively weaker subclasses as no game is perfectly balanced. I'm just stating that it's OK to run a weaker subclass if you find it more fun and can make it work. After all, we're playing a video game so fun is priority #1 at least in my opinion.

[@ponskponsk3210]

Judging by the community in general it might be a hot take, but I think prismatic was a bad addition to the game. Clearly they are the best sub-classes in the game and makes certain ones obsolete, narrowing the variety in playstyles amongst players even further. Seriously, look at your friend list or inspelat random players and just everyone is using prismatic! Boring if you ask me… Also, for me, it is a lame selling point of a ”new sub-class” when it basically is just an amalgamation of already existing powers. I would like to hear you guys' oppinions on this. Maybe it is just me?..

[@xBLACKOUTx95]

Bro I hear Touhou Music in the background, based asf!

[@noobmastersjugcad9065]

Great video! I would say that of the stasis subclasses, Stasis Hunter had the least amount of power creep from Prismatic. Ran a fun build using Mask of Bakris for the 25% weapon boost to arc and stasis weapons. It wasn’t fast but the flavor was unique (something you can’t really say for stasis warlock or Titan).

[@Blanktester685]

Don't ask mactics for a water tier list he will ban you for having a different opinion

[@indolfoluna8033]

Why were the new supers not options?

[@generalkenobi2088]

They are ranking subclasses not supers

[@reiser_175]

I think void warlock is better than arc warlock. Yes void warlock is completely obsolete due to prismatic, but I think arc warlock is outdated. It has worse super options than void, and I think the debuffs and and buffs from void are better than arc's.

[@scl0074]

I love playing Prism Hunter but there is no reason that it should have gotten Combo Blow as it just gives way way too much value

[@eintracht691]

Hellion... Like a little devil. Hell-eon

[@SeniorMeow]

Void warlock is better than any non prismatic warlock. Even Child of the Old gods with Briar binds would make it worth a run

[@Kait07_]

Void warlock has always been the worst subclass [other than stasis]*, I'd argue contraverse is the only way to make it viable for endgame

[@SeniorMeow]

@Kait07_ try a briar binds build in Onslaught. The fact that it was the only class with Devour for a long time then the upgraded version once 3.0 came out has always been 1 of the strongest end game builds in the game.

[@naturreal1705]

They threw void warlock in B as if it's still bad on damage

[@zeroshadowzs]

Solar warlock > void

[@Zurrke]

Void is good I think it's in a good place but you can't seriously think solar lock (well or song) isn't better from an endgame perspective

[@patrickoakley7890]

Wow, StasisLock in C tier? I'd still have them in A at the very least, if not S Tier.

[@sora_2342]

Pretty good tier list! My only change might be strand warlock in the bottom of S, it has crazy suspend potential with mindspun and the wanderer, and you can do hybrid suspend/threadling build. That and it really does go crazy with final warning! But I agree with pretty much the rest of the list

[@Neji1984]

Nah not in serious content

[@davidespinelli9649]

​@@Neji1984 you can use Strand Warlock in end game without any problems.. Is just that there are better options.. that's why people don't use it so much in serious content.. with euphony and with a treadlings build for example, it's broken.

[@Neji1984]

@@davidespinelli9649 threadlings are weak No lie Need a huge buff Cool concept but weak

[@davidespinelli9649]

​@@Neji1984 yes they need a buff but they are still minions... you can't think of enormously buffing minions that you can spam and create an army of them... what could certainly have been done is to create additional interactions to make them stronger... what which was partially done with euphony

[@Neji1984]

@davidespinelli9649 they got the cool factor but they are weak If you're good enough, can make any build work Doesn't mean it's good

[@carlzen5540]

Hmm. Issent titan soo strong in gms?

[@Sluggerage]

So what you're saying is every Titan subclass needs a buff lol

[@SilverSurfer17]

Screw those bots!! Awesome vid Above as usual. I’ve been having such a hard time playing anything besides prismatic. I need to go into DIM & make some more builds but it’s hard when you have Prismatic with the exotic class items.

[@TheZanyWarlock]

should try ballidorse wrathweavers with stasis warlock. It's criminally slept on imo. it helped my friends and i beat the gm with that tormentor boss

[@fscottnoah7223]

Bro, just place prismatic Titan already!!!

[@jklew9486]

Beyblade hunter was fucking broken season before last? Where you got the damage increase per armor charge. Throw on foetracer and quicksilver. We were cooking. It absolutely shreded champs in gm content

[@liamallen7733]

Tier list lets goooo!!

[@PandismLive]

Titan guy was coping hard. Poor dude…

[@imjlu]

Titan guy aka the guy with four world's first raid belts?

[@JuanVazquez-zd7do]

​@imjlu so? That says more about how good his and his teams puzzle solving/figuring out mechanics for encounters are than how good a build really is.

[@imjlu]

@@JuanVazquez-zd7do it means he has an above-average understanding of how tools interact with endgame content obviously his perception is a bit skewed towards day 1/low mans, and I think he has pris titan way too low, but none of that is coping lol

[@JuanVazquez-zd7do]

​@@imjlu but we don't need to be a 4 time worlds first to have an above average understanding of how builds work with endgame content. I agree with your 2nd point though about pris titan. Tbf, Coping hard is probably a stretch from OP but Salt was definitely trying to argue solar over prismatic titan. So I saw why OP made that comment and made me chuckle a little.

[@naturreal1705]

Warlock well s+! Ha!

[@LizardWizard403]

It's solarlock bro, you can run song of flame now in solar. Solarlock is insane right now

[@PandismLive]

Y’all been seeing that dawn chorus build? Yeah it’s S+ alright

[@Zurrke]

​@@LizardWizard403 uh they specified WELL as still being s+ tier

[@universalsin9669]

@@Zurrke it's a SUBCLASS tier list not a super tier list...

[@Zurrke]

@@universalsin9669 go back and listen, they are specifically talking about well (they mention the nerf, how it's changed, but how it's still s+ tier)

[@Diogo.Paludo]

This list … LOL 😂

[@KingGrippy]

Strand warlock in A is hilarious, its probably C tier or D tier. Litterally one of the worst subclasses in the game and im a warlock main

[@ianmills6260]

Not D. High C low B at best. Behemoth Sentinel striker and shade binder are worse

[@Sam-by7uj]

peeny fartz!

[@Yardeninho]

How in the world prismaric hunter better than prismaric titan that one shot the entire room with 0 cd melee and 85 dr. Or warlock with turrents healing and song of flame dmg and 95 dr. Prismaric hunter has nothing going for it, its literally worse than void hunter. Just open gm report, the entire list is JUST pris titans and a few pris warlocks. Maybe one void hunter. This list is trash lol.

[@DomiBlueShellz]

More flexible plus better in any RAID setting

[@andreymavian3400]

Bruh, you clearly don't know how to play Prismatic Hunter correctly if you think its worse than Titan

[@Insidious-K]

@@andreymavian3400what about Warlock tho. Prismatic warlock pretty much does everything really well I only ever switch to solar when people are in my ear yelling at me to run well.

[@Yardeninho]

@@andreymavian3400 damn, you got me. Skill issue. What about the pro gm players? Go to gm report. See the list. The entire top clears is just titan and some warlocks. Me? Sure just skill issue, but what about the pros? Also what the hell is stronger than titan melee one shot the entire room on 0 cd while having 80% DR and generating a billion orbs? Stop coping

[@Yardeninho]

@@Insidious-K nova warlock out damaged hunter after still hunt nerfs.