Ranking EVERY mutation in CAVES OF QUD! Tierlist

[@3NC3PH4L0N]

"Multiple Arms" is easy A-tier now with the recent changes . "Multiweapon Fighting" (former "Dualwield") now works in conjuction with every additional arm! So you basically dont need to level "Multiple Arms" ever and you have a flat 60% chance to make offhand strikes (10% from "Multiple Arms" + 50% from maxed Multiweapon). You could even make it more insane by taking Jab/Short Blade and double the percentage. If you add "Heightened Quickness" you become a S-tier chimera because "Short Blade" gives you +25% quickness for your primary attacks wich affect your offhand of course! PS: Wristblades and Stingers count as offhand weapons too ;)

[@rogueratVODS]

Yeah multi-weapon with multiple arms is really good now. I think i'd agree about the A rank. I'm probably gonna come back and make a new one of these once full release hits next year. I love me some jab/rejoinder!

[@3NC3PH4L0N]

@@rogueratVODS Ahhh i just double checked Jab and they changed it as well; it doesnt double your offhand chance anymore :( Now it gives you one extra offhand strike whenever you hit with an offhand weapon... Youre right; its probably best to wait until 1.0 release for a new tier list :D

[@rogueratVODS]

@@3NC3PH4L0N Yeah I noticed that as well. I kinda like the change though. If you have 60% chance for an offhand strike, its still good odds, and being able to hit one more time per proc is still pog, esepcially with multiple limbs/chimera/helping hands. i'm doing this build for my season 2 Qud run on my main channel :)

[@NeostormXLMAX]

Stingers should all be a tier since they have bonus attack chance as a side weapon, even without their effects they are busted

[@TheManyVoicesVA]

​@@NeostormXLMAXi like the paralysis stinger. Paralyze and then flurry something... bye.

[@SomeAssh0le]

freezing ray is more expensive then flaming because it changes your brittle temperate so that you basically cannot be frozen which is a huge safety net for avoiding run ending situations where you get more or less perma-CC'd and also many late game enemies are less resistant to cold then they are to fire

[@rogueratVODS]

I know this is a couple months old comment, but I just wanted you to know that I've come to love freezing ray!

[@virileagitur7403]

@@rogueratVODS I know this is a 5 month old comment but I just wanted you to know I've really come to love your videos! :)

[@majikthise110]

It also doesn't burn all your loot

[@jayst]

I came to watch mainly to see how you ranked Clairvoyance. I feel this is by far the most underrated mutation in the game. Clairvoyance becomes the backbone of successful esper runs due to the immense value in both defense and offense situations. Clairvoyance + sunder, teleportation, light manipulation, force wall, pyro/cryo, burgeoning, etc. I have never had a successful esper run without clairvoyance, and any time I play a chimera or true kin I wish I had clairvoyance again because it’s very easy to die from something shooting you in the darkness, or a seeker on the other side of the screen in darkness.

[@rogueratVODS]

I don't remember where I ranked clairvoyance on this list, but I have come to really enjoy using it more lately! I don't think it's underrated or a backbone of an esper run, but it does make your other esper mutations far better. I have had successful esper runs without it, but clairvoyance is essentially a huge quality of life boost for the game! I feel the same way about Truekin Nightvision.

[@jayst]

@@rogueratVODS feel the same way about night vision. It’s so easy to get killed by things you can’t see

[@webkinskid]

great coverage to just discuss all the mutations, thanks for taking the time (and boy did it take a lot of time) to talk about them all, really helpful!

[@rogueratVODS]

Thank you for watching! I'm planning on making an abridged version on my main channel at some point :)

[@hUUUURRRR]

Two-headed negates exhaustion from disintegrate most of the time. To be more safe, pick force bubble and pop that before you blow. Its a fun mutation

[@deadstones1]

One cool thing about the stingers is that since they count as a long blade, you can use them to get the bonus from defensive stance without having to worry about holding a sword. They're a terrible primary weapon though, since they can never penetrate more than once. Only use this trick on characters that never melee, like low str beguiling espers.

[@_Itchy_Bones_]

I'm relatively new to qud so getting to grit gate is still pretty good for me. But I love this game so I've been eating up all the Qud content i can find and this is some of the best so far. Right after watching this video I made a mutant gunslinger with: Temporal fugue Force bubble Corrosive gas generation Photosynthetic skin Heightened hearing And Quantum jitters as my defect You'll never believe that the first mutation I unlocked was heightened quickness!!! So I've just given Argive his wire and I'm rocking all the S tier mutations and heightened hearing. So far i dont think my health has dropped below 2/3s, I shoot 4 times for every attack that comes at me (with akimbo turned off), and anytime someone does somehow get melee damage on me I turn on akimbo then use temporal fugue and my clones shread them. I'd say this is the best 4 hours I've spent on KZbin. Now i cant wait for the cybernetics tier list, calling/caste tier list, etc. I hope you've got more tier lists like this in the making, they're a great listen while at work!!!

[@michailvolski5035]

now imagine how much more fun it would be if you figured it out yourself!

[@gloomfiend]

Great Tier list! I would personally rate ego projection and burrowing claws higher though, they're actually one of my favorites, although they get only good later in the game. Ego projection is very versatile in that you can use it offensively and defensively. Since your ego will always go up in the late game from psychic assassins, it scales pretty insanely, especially with non-penetration-cap mutations horns and burrowing claws. I personally prefer claws over horns. Yes it has less base damage but horns prevents helmets, which is bad. Also, burrowing claws actually gives you main AND offhand weapons, with short blades having double the hit chance in offhand, so you will attack with both pretty much all the time. And then there is the gimmick with tunneling though walls and more importantly, creating stair cases up and down (with experimental content enabled that is). I often start with burrowing claws for rapid mutation and early investment, but pick up ego projection later in the game when I get the chance, since it really is a late bloomer.

[@rogueratVODS]

Hey, thanks for taking a look and commenting! Interesting, I actually have always looked at burrowing claws as not that great, but I'm guilty of never really giving them a chance at higher levels. I think I'll definitely take that into consideration on my next build on stream. Im currently playing a horn build, and its super powerful but not being able to graft myself with a teleprojector makes me sad. Other than that I'm not worried about no helmet as I'm still get nice AV from horns. I never took into account the ability to dig up and down with burrowing claws in the video, but I will admit that that ability alone is probably enough to move them up in the ranking. I do know the power of ego projection, I've had some insane runs with it, the problem is that I just always kinda forget to use it. Live and drink!

[@Jasta85]

2 more reasons you should consider taking force wall over force bubble: force bubble goes on cooldown after it wears off, so there will always be a gap between uses. force wall goes on cooldown when you place it, meaning without enough willpower and levels in it, you could have it up permanently. Also, explosions can pass through force bubble if they hit it and still kill you, with force wall you can place it further away from you, or even around the enemy trying to attack you and make them kill themselves with their own explosives. That said force bubble is still fantastic and doesn't require you to worry about placement and stuff plus it moves with you. You could also take both for an impenetrable fortress build.

[@rogueratVODS]

I actually wasn't aware of that cooldown thing! Is that intended? Either way, that's a great tip, thanks! And yes, I have been killed a couple of times with explosions through my force bubble :') I've never taken both at the same time, but there's definitely something to that!

[@BDtetra]

@@rogueratVODS Playing in the current version, I can keep perma-force-bubble at level 10, so at least in the current version, Force Bubble will start going on CD the moment you cast it. Ending it early will create a gap

[@pomatheoma416]

I wish CoQ would be more popular so more vidoes like this would exist. love from germany❤

[@Ed-1749]

My experience with light manipulation is that it solely exists for builds where you sack all your stats for ego and willpower so you have no weapons but because you have all that ego you never need to even consider putting a point in it. So while the ability sucks to use, the power lies in what it enables you to do in character creation.

[@pluy5066]

A bit late to the party, but I want to say that this is a really great and transparent way to create a tierlist. I'm looking forward to the release tierlist! I also woulndt mind you including Defects and doing tierlists on skills and cybernetics :D.

[@SomeAssh0le]

adrenal control is godlike because on an esper build you want to get two headed at rank 17 for the 100% action cost reduction right? So you can RA it twice to get to 16 and you're not quite there, you could RA it a third time but that wastes points and 3 RAs is a lot to spend, considering you usually only get 5 total before you hit the leveling dead zone, but instead of all that you can RA two headed once to hit level 13 and then pop adrenal control at level 10 with no RAs for the +4 to phys mutations which takes you right to two headed level 17 where you want to be, and you can put all your other RAs somewhere more useful. My prefered build is an "esper" that starts without any mental mutations, just all quickness - plant skin, heightened quickness, adrenal control, and two headed, and then you just rely on random mutation buys and brain brine and water ritual with seekers to give you good stuff

[@mdb45424]

there is a secert thing about light manipulation, it protects you from lazers, found this out from a pistol that granted the mutation

[@willferrous8677]

I'm impressed by how you actually researched stuff midstream here, not a lot of people do that.

[@TaintedBalance]

This has been very helpful for growing my understanding of the game. As a suggestion, the complexity of this game and its interactions make me think you might want to go for a more robust tier list ala the more complex gacha game ratings for PvE vs PvP vs Raiding or whatever. Instead of those categories, something like Enabler (as in it enables a run type), Support/Supplemental (this would resolve the "where does Clairvoyance go?" problem), and Clutch/Backpocket (great to have in a jam or getting for free/random, maybe not actively going for though). Workshop those names a bit, but ya, flattening them all into one ultimate tier list is going to cause some weird comparisons. Then you can compose the flattened list from those siloed list.

[@rogueratVODS]

Hey, thanks for the feedback! I'm not at all familiar with the gacha-style of tierlist, but I was talking on stream last night about revisiting the tierlist for an update soon (and hopefully shorter than 4 hours). So watch this space, because I'd love to try some different categories like that!

[@TaintedBalance]

@@rogueratVODS welcome! Tldr is that they rank characters/abilities by specific content vertical. An obvious one to me would be categories like initial selection vs post character generation since that seemed to be a major discussion point as you rated them. Works well as a single purchase vs needs investment was another axis that came up a lot, etc etc.

[@isaacstandley730]

Burgeoning becomes scary and godlike. As it levels up the cool down gets all the way down to 5 turns. There are plants that can be summoned that scale to the late game, and there are multiple common food items that can boost the mutation. You have to be careful of aloe pyra melting the screen, and lahs blowing it up though.

[@rogueratVODS]

I’m currently doing a burgeoning play through on stream and it’s so good! I have the 5 turn cool-down now. It’s cracked!

[@emeryglas]

Great video for hopping around, new to the game and it helped a lot!

[@rogueratVODS]

Glad to hear it! Hope you have a great time in game! Live & Drink

[@TheArnoldification]

confusion is actually pretty good as an esper. The -MA is the mental equivalent of lowering something's PV for physical attacks, which makes abilities which target MA like sunder mind hit extremely hard, given ranks in confusion scale the MA penalty. An example of a recent ecounter for clearing out a historical site, I was hitting bloated pearlfrogs for around 10-ish damage per tick of sunder mind, but with confusion + berate it went up to like 30-ish damage per tick. Perhaps also worth noting if you can get a bunch of psionic weapons somehow you'd be pretty powerful in melee when using confusion as they also target MA. Personal overall rating would be between solid B and low A. Main weakness would be the range is a bit low so you're sort of reliant on setting things up with force bubble/force wall if you can't cheese from behind a wall (which is harder to do than with other esper mutations given the low range) but the cc by itself is actually quite good - it's basically stunning force but better because the duration is way longer, and it becomes a potent damage enabler for ego-focused esper builds, given that the MA penalty scales with your ego.

[@Just_lift_anyone]

Nice, just found your channel as I’ve recently started playing CoQ again, notice you have long plays so glad I found it 😊

[@rogueratVODS]

Hey, thanks for stopping in! :) Hope your runs are going well!

[@jordonlegge448]

Paralysis stinger has made my runs really go the distance. Rank 5 and one dude is guaranteed not to be able to do shit for 4 turns. 😂

[@lazorr3260]

Respectful but hard disagree with clairvoyance, if you are playing classic mode information is so important to avoid putting yourself in lethal situations. Things like knowing where a turret is, or being able to identify where an enemy psionic is, or otherwise identifying threats gives you the ability to plan and risk assess. Photosynthesis is OK but not great for the reason that you need to be in daylight, not in a cave and not at night. Its still good but nowhere near S tier imho. At a high enough level of regen you can regrow a head, and become effectively unkillable outside of certain extreme circumstances.

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

You can cook Photosyntesis, but need more levels for more portion cap of starch and lignin

[@HI-kb2cg]

spinnerets plus phase lets u make phase silk might be something there as it lets u have better phase lvl without the point investment.

[@THEMoredros]

I've found Paralysis Stinger to be amazing, easily A tier. A few details to consider that were missed: 1) Paralysis doesn't break on dealing damage (on top of setting DV to 0). So you can reliably smack a paralyzed enemy over and over again. 2) Lunge, Charge, Flurry, and Sting all make your stinger attack despite being an offhand weapon (Lunge and Charge are a special rule). If you don't have it set as your primary limb, it always applies Paralysis when it penetrates. Alongside low cooldowns, this means you usually have a new Paralysis applier anytime the last Paralysis ends. It also means you can Paralyze multiple enemies in a row. 3) Sting, the ability it gives you, always hits and always penetrates, so you can use it against high AV or high DV enemies. Especially high DV enemies, you Sting them and set their DV to 0 for your follow-up attacks. It's also a short cooldown. I'm unsure if Dueling-Lunge guarantees that the stinger also always hits and penetrates for an offhand stinger. 4) It's very valuable for reducing stat-reliance. It is effective even with low STR and low AGI. Making it easier to invest in the other stats, like an Esper build. The downsides: a) Paralysis doesn't stack. Once the first paralysis ends, any more paralysis you've applied will also be removed. This effectively means that enemies will get a single turn in between each bout of paralysis that you apply. b) Some enemies are immune to paralysis (robots) c) Paralysis is a one-time toughness save on application which enemies can pass. (Note however, that the Toughness save is 16+2/mutation level. So the save gets very high, very fast.) d) The Stinger is capped at 1x Penetration damage and maxes out at 13PV. My first successful run through Bethesda Susa, I had Paralyzing Stinger and I paralyze-chained Saad Amus in melee despite being an ego-stacking Esper. I took almost no damage despite minimal investment in both Strength and Agility.

[@NeostormXLMAX]

Yeah some of these tiers are dumb, for example mental mirror should also be s tier since without it you basically die to psychic hunters much easier, it prevents you from spaming clairvoyance or playing cheesy glass canon alpha striking builds

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

How does one set things as primary limb? Is that no longer in game?

[@justafella8896]

I feel like people underestimate regeneration when coupled with extra regen from food buffs and tanky builds. You can ignore the "Fuck your entire run" attacks and you always have your health constantly going up. fungal biomes a joke too! Super handy perk.

[@philipboardman1357]

I'm thinking about trying the game for the first time, and precognition sounds like a great ability for a new player. It also sounds like a synergizes very well with phasing. It sounds like fun to explore through a solid wall or deadly environment so far that you will never make it back, but if you're using precognition, it will still work

[@deadstones1]

I had a minion with disintegrate once, he was pretty good about not hitting me with it and did a lot of work with the aoe. Definitely lost some good loot for that though, that's my main gripe with it.

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

Adrenal cooldown apparently works off actions. That's what wiki says. I wonder if 50% uptime.. Or more even, is an option?

[@NeostormXLMAX]

wow it took years for a legit mutation tier list that covers all of them

[@NeostormXLMAX]

Still heavily biased though

[@NeostormXLMAX]

The stingers should all be s tier since they attack more often than horns etc

[@NeostormXLMAX]

also electricity generation is literally S tier, you can perminantly power any forcefield or shields around you for no cost and constantly recharge batteries

[@michailvolski5035]

i think the game allows most abilities to be S -tier if you make a build around them.. maybe not ignite =)

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

Is there still a way to put horns into the main slot somehow? Like make it be the main attack, and the arms with blades and axes ect all secondary?

[@davidsullivan2404]

Also will be watching your content on a carapise build but I don't know how to fight with it because if I tighten it and attack i die but I also don't know how to utilize the tighten if there is retaliation damage to properly utilitize it

[@rogueratVODS]

Thanks for the kind words and follow! So with carapace, if you tighten it you can't really do anything physical like move or melee, but if you have mental mutations you can use those whilst carapace is tightened. There is no retaliation damage from it, that's probably just damage from an enemy.

[@FisherSmurf]

I was thinking that as an Esper you couldn't have physical mutations like Beak?

[@rogueratVODS]

As an Esper genotype, you can't. But as a mixed character you can. When I talk about Esper, I'm often not talking about a pure Esper Genotype, but rather as a character with mostly Esper mutations, if that makes sense?

[@principleshipcoleoid8095]

Is it possible to begule chain? I know I was able to Protelatize -> Dominate -> Begule. But does Dominate -> Begile -> Dominate -> Begile work?

[@Lowdian]

Three months after this video was released, there was a major update that brought two changes relevant to this tier list. Dual Wield was changed to Multiweapon Fighting and now does synergies well with Multiple Arms. On the other hand, Horns was heavily nerfed. How would you rank these two mutations after these changes?

[@lunarsystem101]

Personally, I only use wings for the charge and jump bonuses, particularly the charge. The other stuff is nice, but I just like using it with an axe build to zip halfway across the screen and decapitate someone, then zip back because I have triple-jointed.

[@laserbeastjr]

I am not positive what is noob trappy about Light Manip. I have a character (admittedly in roleplay) with light manip at level 17 and it is... better than my rifles. But more than that, the light reflection is wildly useful later on when turrets are shooting lasers etc and esper hunters are using light manip against you. Just my thoughts. I would at least put it B. Personally, it's an A for me.

[@johnnylams3948]

Tried the game yesterday, and died so hard not following your tips and I kind loved it. It is so brutal.

[@miroslavjung8058]

Only thing precog is S for sure because you can re-roll the brain brine and mutations with nectars.

[@alexhawkeye1868]

Did you forget that your ego modifier is applied to the levels of mental mutations?

[@elijahgoodwin4961]

kindle is kind of funky with cold blooded. Take heightened quickness and post up on the same tile as your kindle for a little extra quickness. It's not much but for an overall +1 point its aight.

[@NeostormXLMAX]

also precog isn't very useful if you are playing role play or wander etc since you can save scum ether way already

[@marcschwartz549]

Yo RogueRat, I LOVE your videos but I have intense issues with this tier list 😂😂. As an esper player, Domination, Precognition, Sunder Mind and Teleportation are EASY S-Tier mutations. Domination opens up an entirely new dimension of the game with companions, Teleportation can make inaccessible areas accessible, when paired with clairvoyance. Sunder Mind is just the bread and butter mental attack, most things just can’t defend against it. And Precognition? Easily the strongest ability in the game when paired with neutron flux or brain brine. Also, my FAVOURITE ability Light Manipulation absolutely does not scale badly. It STARTS with 9 penetration, and the penetration and damage scales insanely high at higher levels. How did you put temporal fugue above any of those? 😭😭 Temporal fugue can be suicidally dangerous to Espers or anyone with explosive weapons.

[@warriorfire8103]

Brand new just charging in sword and board. I'm trying to find a skill tier list or just a basic primer

[@rogueratVODS]

Hope this helps! You can search the video by chapters for the mutation you're interested in. (ps corrosive gas is amazing) Live and Drink

[@thomascook8541]

For the resizing task you should have just got chatgpt to write you a powershell script that resizes all the images in the folder to the correct size, it would have taken 2 minutes instead :)

[@Ed-1749]

4:05:44 Ey ey ey ey ey. Having none of this middling opinion on triple jointed. Triple Jointed. Juke. Pointed Circle. Take infinite turns as long as you hit that reset chance. This is it, this is why we take triple jointed.

[@rogueratVODS]

I would like you to know that my opinion on triple jointed has greatly improved as of late! Light manipulation - well it still sucks :)

[@Ed-1749]

@@rogueratVODS Reasonable. I suppose you could just buy a gun and spend 4 points somewhere else.

[@lazorr3260]

Triple jointed is amazing for the pistol skill tree as you can sometimes empty the clips multiple times in a row

[@ThisNameIsNotTaken99]

Nice, a fellow photosynthetic skin enjoyer. Maybe my favorite part of qud is just how many of the mutations that I initially thought were bad or useless are actually great if you invest in and build around them.

[@lazorr3260]

The thing with PS skin is that daylight is only half the time, only on the surfice, in Qud where caves are everywhere

[@adamsetzler]

Would have been nice if you cut out the descriptions and put them on screen while you were discussing them

[@PixPunxel]

Dude, phasing is free jail break card. I never play without it. You see you are going to die, just phase to another room, no enemy can follow

[@rogueratVODS]

It is, but it's entirely map dependent - it's really only useful below the surface and even then, there are maps with solid walls and no gaps. Okay mutation overall but without clairvoyance or rapid advancement for perma-phase I just don't like it too much. Thank you for the comment! I really like hearing about what people like to pick :)

[@lazorr3260]

Phasing is a death sentence

[@nowtherearetwo404]

im watching while i play CoQ

[@skylarm2068]

I'm very biased towards Psychometry since realizing how well it synergizes with the Tinker calling was one of the first bits of synergy I'd discovered in Qud. I think Psychometry as an effect is absolutely bananas (pun intended) but choosing it at character creation is quite unwise since it costs the same as a sun dried banana and 100 skill points for Cooking and Gathering.

[@Eddie2P]

you can get psychometry with bananas?

[@skylarm2068]

@@Eddie2P Yeah! Cook with Sun Dried Bananas. You can find them in the Stilt or Banana Grove.

[@Betaminmax]

Boo! No nerfing of Corrosive Gas! Thats my go too GOAT ability!

[@croodludc]

You could probably have added the text with image magick.

[@davidsullivan2404]

I am brand new, only have 17h in the past few days. I am trying meme builds by trying to maximize my mutation points as I keep dying with prebuilt characters and knowing to little about the game. So trying themed characters or personalized characters. Been struggling with what detramental traits to take. Could you do a trier list with it as well please Also really enjoyed this video and looking forward to watch your other content so +1 to sub and follower ability

[@Ed-1749]

I highly reccomend tonic allergy. Tonics are already kinda risky for mutants so it wont be the end of the world to make them riskier, especially if it gets you an extra 4 point mutation.

[@Frizz-c8c]

Syphon Vim lets you kill flying enemy in melee and does not care about phasing.

[@Pinecone246]

You should do a cybernetics tier list!

[@rogueratVODS]

I Absolutely plan on doing that at some point :)

[@corereject5796]

i want a full rerun of this after the current beta is stable and live :^)

[@deadpersimmon]

There are these things called "macro", it is the means of automating the exact kind of suffering you went through.

[@ShaneCopen]

Picked up a gas tumbler schematic. Still in the game.

[@rogueratVODS]

Yeah, I've found a few since this, however I always get them on characters with no gas :'(

[@stravvman]

There's not a lot of videos I play on 1.75...

[@pomatheoma416]

I managed to kill Tam on lvl 5 thanks to this :)

[@Maethendias]

light manipulations best use is as a fly swatter mental mirror can be incredibly good if you play esper and get an esper hunter to sunder you first, letting you reset the connection to sunder them instead multiple arms DOES stack with multiweapon fighting, additively parastinger doesnt wear off its paralyze effect when hit, the duration is just very low in the first place one thing of note concerning the vod... the voice suppression constantly and consistently picking up mid sentence is pretty obnoxious ngl

[@omegazeta]

Bad takes on light manipulation, phasing, and sunder mind. Both light manipulation and sunder mind work on enemies in phase while the player is out of phase (you can attack while invulnerable). At high enough levels and willpower you can perma phase and take advantage of this constantly. Also the damage from sunder is god tier, and the scaling on light manipulation is not bad at all if you focus on it (eventually it has more pierce than a phase cannon).

[@PandamaticBreakcore]

Quills is terrible imo, it's almost always better to have armor. Spinnerets is actually okay, especially on ranged builds because enemies prefer to avoid going in them, and at high level can get stuck (making them super easy to hit).

[@thewolfpack5290]

Still watching!

[@flyerderek6073]

Glad I bumped into you on twitch this is gold

[@rogueratVODS]

Good to see you again! Hope you enjoyed :)

[@SomeAssh0le]

also putting domination as not S tier is a crime, if you think this mutation isn't good for general gameplay you're not seeing the potential, any time you go down a stairwell and you're like "well this zone is fucked" you can just kite something to the stairs and go up and have one of the enemies follow you and dominate it and then go back down and clear the area a bit with 100% safety and repeat. You can completely golgotha as low as like level 6 with zero risk if you can proselytize a dawnglider and have it go down the elevator shaft, pick up the waydroid, and fly back out and never have to worry about glotrot. Lastly you can make safe use hand-e-nukes by just not being on screen when they go off which is always extremely fun. The only downside to this is that you don't get any xp from using it.

[@rogueratVODS]

I definitely see Domination as being S tier, but only for the meme-factor. we have don some super weird and fun stuff on stream with domination builds. The reason it didn't make S tier here is because the mutations were being ranked on practicality/survivability rather than meme/weirdness factor. If there was a way the XP could trickle back to the player with dom'd creatures, it'd be S+ tier no question. Cheers for watching! :)

[@SomeAssh0le]

@@rogueratVODS yeah the point I'm making is that it's incredible for practical survivability if you use it right, and losing a few mobs worth of xp is a small price to pay for removing half the enemies from a screen that has a high chance of killing you

[@ohno5559]

I don't get why everyone is so into carapace, why would I spend the scarcest resources in the game on something I can essentially get for free with armor

[@rogueratVODS]

Hi, thanks for the comment. There's a few reasons why - first and foremost carapace allows you to have better AV earlier than you would otherwise. Barring any lucky high-tier Dromad spawns, you probably aren't going to find Zetachrome armour before reaching the Freehold (you might be able to get it from Sixshrew if you're lucky). Comparing mutations to items is difficult to do because you're never guaranteed to find certain items in Qud, espeically high level weapons and armour. Carapace negates having to look for Zetachrome lunes entirely. Second, going beyond level 10 carapace gives you more AV than zetachrome (although admittedly you cannot tinker with it which is a big drawback). 10 levels in a mutation is nothing, ultimately. I'm currently playing a carapace/corrosive gas/horn build on Twitch and it has incredible, consistent survivability so I rank carapace high for those reasons :)

[@ohno5559]

​@@rogueratVODS Yeah it's probably a playstyle thing. The first thing I do basically every run is get every wilderness lore and run around all over the map looking for busted items (I'll visit the Freehold before getting into any real serious combat, unless I run into something on accident, in which case I can probably just shoot it to death). Honestly I find going underground to be kind of a slog so I avoid it until I absolutely have to, which means my equipment ends up being way better than it should be for my level or the difficulty of the area. So for me, if I'm spending super rare resources (mutation points, attribute points, cybernetics credits) it basically has to be something I could not do otherwise as opposed to just getting something earlier. I can definitely see it from the perspective of someone who wants to jump right into a lot of fighting, but for me it's more fun to play a squishier character that either avoids combat or wins using planning, cheap tricks, and technology.

[@graveleater9746]

For the life of me I could never figure out what tightening the carapace is actually useful for. On paper doubling your AV is excellent but if there's an action in the game you can take without loosening the carapace then in my 400+ hours I've never found it.

[@rogueratVODS]

@@graveleater9746 You can use mental abilities and mutations with it doubled, but beyond that it's not very useful at all.

[@grandvivant]

@@graveleater9746 if you have nothing to use with it tighten it could still be useful with the right knowledge of the foes you are encountered, timing tightening to get around a hard hitting attack / cooldown from an enemy, but yea a bit rough still

[@NeostormXLMAX]

photosynthetic is fucking trash, 99% of the game is underground, and it can ONLY be used on the surface its literally a newb trap mutation lmao completely fucking useless for the entire game outside of specific locations early game

[@lazorr3260]

Idk about newb trap but yeah its not always day, and you are often below ground away from the sun

[@StarCrushingUppercut]

You can eat items produced from it and literally get the buff underground/during the night.

[@lazorr3260]

@@StarCrushingUppercut i didnt know that! Thats pretty big, thank you

[@Ed-1749]

My experience with light manipulation is that it solely exists for builds where you sack all your stats for ego and willpower so you have no weapons but because you have all that ego you never need to even consider putting a point in it. So while the ability sucks to use, the power lies in what it enables you to do in character creation.