Ranking Fates Genderbend Excuses: Revamped

Cool Genderbend Facts: Can't wait for moer genderbends because the excuses just get better.
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[@radiosound-kfpradioplayer5770]

My head canon reason for the Dioscuri is that they genderbended them so that they can hire the Uchida sibling to do the VA

[@skysmaug3844]

As far as I know, that is the actual reasoning.

[@lou736]

Technically Sima Yi using Reines as a vessel, while part due to his rivalry with Zhung Liang, is because the Throne made him compatible with a female host due to an anecdote where Zhuge Liang provoked him by sending him women's clothing for refusing to take part in the war.

[@mylesobrien7477]

That's actually pretty clever

[@lenleon3699]

Part true but the reality is that Sima Yi was summoned by Zhuge Liang’s ability and he grabbed the best vessel linked to Waver, the current vessel of Zhuge Liang. It is very much a last minute summon contract on the spot which the event excuses through Zhuge Liang’s ability being limited by the vessel. The only unexcused servant in that event was Astraea, who inhabits Luvia because “Case Files fanservice”.

[@Emperorwolf999]

​@@mylesobrien7477hello shirou Emiya

[@thecorrected7401]

Nero’s is because she isn’t really ‘just’ the historical Emperor Nero. She embodies all of the myths and legends about him too. Historically Christians wrote of Nero in code as the Beast in the Book of Revelations. Pop culture ties 666 as something Satanic as the number of the beast, but it was just a clever way to speak of Nero in code. The entire chapter that has the description of the beast with seven heads ridden by a woman who was the mother of all prostitutes was in fact a metaphor for Rome and Emperor Nero. This was all due to the fact that Nero was the first Roman Emperor to persecute and put Christians to death. The whole book of revelations is said to be a series of letters passed between high ranking Christians warning each other about the dangers of Rome and Emperor Nero. All of this of course is now tied to Nero’s spirit origin and his depiction in the throne of heroes. It’s like how Vlad the impaler is tied to being Dracula despite the historical version not being a vampire. This isn’t even a retcon or anything, you can go back to the original Extra and see Gawain insult Nero by calling her the mother of prostitutes. Nero is forever tied to that description of the Beast with Seven Heads (each head representing a different Hill surrounding Rome) and the top of the beast was being ridden by a Woman who was Mother Harlot. In riding the Beast representing Rome itself, she is seen as being its master, and the master of Rome would be its Emperor: Nero. Makes perfect sense that she’s gender bent. Everyone has heard of 666 and the Beast of Revelation from the Bible. Since those legends are tied to the historical Nero, they have to be reflected in his depiction in the throne of heroes. It’d be like summoning Chris Cringle and not expected any connection to Santa. The fictional part of him is too famous to avoid it. Same with Umu.

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

yeah no mother harlot and the beast is something that extends beyond Nero representing end times prophecy the beast holds no connotations to Rome though they do hold a match at a simple glance and only works if you ignore the many greater prophecies like the beast, the prophet and anti christ 666 being the beasts mark that al who follow it shall have not just a name its more than Nero and Rome so Nero would be a false beast propped up by the misinterpretations and fear of church brothers than the true thing at best Nero would represent and head of the beast and thats a stretch

[@stringentstorm5990]

I don't think that Nero is a female because she is also the Whore of Babylon, but she is also the Whore of Babylon only because that Nero is a female in Nasuverse. So, it doesn't justify the genderbend, it's just an advantage of it.

[@christophermolitor4554]

I was always thinking that it had to do with the obsession over beauty, famous quote of "woman in men's clothes", and the fact that he was the bride of some dude (hence Nero Bride). Not to mention he forcibly genderbent a servant. The whole history of Nero is mismashed gender stuff. However, now that you mention it Nero Beast makes sooo much more sense now. Hadn't made that connection to the dragon yet but it provides so much more context for the character as a whole.

[@Castersvarog]

While I do find this to be really freaking cool explanation as to why they made her a woman from a meta perspective. I feel like it loses points because inuniverse, Nero is just a woman because history was wrong. Which is a shame because they could have done something really cool with the whole warping of legends thing, but early fgo was so poorly written

[@sezzomon6625]

I think Da Vinci deserves to be higher. He manifested as what he considers his peak like most servants do while acknowledging that he's absolutely a man. His personality plays perfectly into that premise since he's as confident as humanly possible since the Mona Lisa is the embodiment of perfection in his eyes. Otherwise, I'm vibing with the Katamari music.

[@lenleon3699]

Plus we also have Gran Cavallo, aka Da Vinci Rider, who is literally a female homunculus he created and out all his memories inside. Meaning said character is not even Leonardo Da Vinci anymore, and the story makes it clear.

[@user-ms5mt7xs1i]

Bazett: Literally a descendant of that particular god, Bottom C tier Jinako: Has nothing to do with Ganesha himself, B tier ???

[@tixrobux2930]

Jinako had better story than bazzett simple as. Lb4> valentine

[@BlazeEmerald]

Many things can be justified with a 'blame BB' and then just moving on

[@KaitoFlinn]

Ok i need to defend the whole Kyokuten Bakin / Fusehime weird shit. To clarify, Bakin is the writer of the story "Nanso Satomi Hakkenden". Fusehime is a character set up IN that story In the first part of the story, Fusehime's father, Yoshizane, jokingly promises that whoever brings him the head of his enemy general would have his daughter's hand in marriage. A joke he comes to regret when Yatsufusa, the big dog that appears with the 3rd ascend, which in story is the family dog, raised by a tanuki and taken by Yoshizane when he caught his fancy, actually arrives with the head of his enemy in tow. This in turn, happened because, through the sort of political warfare that made yoshizane high status someone cursed Yoshizane at the gallows so that his descendants would never be more depraved dogs. Yatsufusa being able to do that was the curse realizing itself Having to honor his end of the word, he marries Fusehime to Yatsufusa, but quickly exiles them for... you know, animal marriage. Fusehime is resentful but does not lash out and goes off in exile with the family dog her dad married her to. Now, an important part of fuse is that she Did Not Bone the Dog. Nor Did The Dog Bone Her. In exile, she remained chaste and meditated on the lotus sutras, along with the prayer beads her father had given her earlier in life. And Yatsufusa, continuously hearing these meditations, learns from them, gaining a moral compass and fighting against the urge from the curse that befell yoshizane's family. The curse is STILL there, and fusehime does get impregnated, but because of yatsufusa's change of heart and the fact no exchange of fluids happened, these children of the two remained bodiless spirits within her, and didn't lose their chance to be noble, instead of going depraved as the curse said so Fun fact: this bit of Hakkenden's story of fusehime and yatsufusa, shares a lot of similarities with the Chinese myth of Panhu, of a princess married off to a dog when said dog brings him the head of his enemies, and considering Kyokuten Bakin had been very much inspired by chinese myths and stories like "Water Margin / Suikoden", it's likely Panhu's story inspired Fusehime and Yatsufusa.

[@demothiguillermo2059]

I've seen the gemini be genderbent to be a brother and sister twice in two different medias both of which being from Japan

[@rmkidd2021]

*insert doof copypasta here

[@demothiguillermo2059]

@@rmkidd2021 it's not a copypasta it's a meme

[@sibsart2039]

If I remember correctly, Artoria is female because after Nasu wrote prototype, his editors wanted a story where the character genders were reversed. With a Male MC and female love interest instead of the original Female OC and the male love interest. So it has real life reasons behind it rather then lore ones.

[@vladprus4019]

Not "his editors", but "his best buddy and co-creator Takeuchi"

[@maegaman1519]

... where's Fran? Did you forget Fran? You forgot Fran. She is like the Furtive Pygmy, so oft forgotten... she needs more love.

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

She doesn't count, she is bride of Victor so she is legit

[@professorpengu502]

Fran is the bride of Frankenstein

[@FirstLast-hd4oe]

Then she should be in NOT A GENDERBENT Tier he just forgot her.😢

[@petraryca]

@@nonamepasserbya6658 Orion(artemis) at there, so why not bride fran?

[@lenleon3699]

@@nonamepasserbya6658 She counts because they literally created an alternative story about Victor creating Eve before Adam. There is no reason he did it this way other than the fact Apocrypha’s writer wanted a pseudo-love bond between her and her master.

[@elgatto3133]

37:50 Iskandar's Shadow may also be the reason why the super mega gigachad Fate Iskandar was said to possess feminine features

[@xaldrortenderofthevats8948]

Ushi Gozen quite literally translates into "OX LADY", a realization that came long after Nasu decided that Raikou and Ushi Gozen should be one in the same. and you cannot deny the fact that the consequences of that and the conflict with Mitsunaka as a result were far, far better done than most of the rest on this list.

[@johnsmith-tw1nz]

I think something important to consider with Quetz in regards to the possession is that in Aztec culture, god possession/impersonation (where a mortal individual literally becomes the god during or after a ceremony) is both very common and important.

[@rejoicingfakepriest201]

It's hilarious how they went so extreme to genderbend historical and mythical male figures while ignoring the existing female ones 🤣 Not that I'm complaining though, Nobbu is my favorite 🤭

[@peaceribbon8322]

The willful ignoring of historical females for the sake of genderbend shock value has always been my biggest criticism of the series. Granted on average it’s really FGO that constitutes most of the problem (meaning you can play various other games or watch other series and get significantly less of it), but even so I just wish the precedent set by Saber wasn’t so thoroughly abused.

[@rejoicingfakepriest201]

@@peaceribbon8322 Yeah man. For me, it has been abused to the point where it's surprising when someone is NOT genderbent. That's how bad it was.

[@blurb9319]

@@peaceribbon8322The only genderbend they’ve done as a conscious ‘got you’ was Nero in Extra and most of the recent ones do have some fate bullshit that explain the reasoning somewhat

[@peaceribbon8322]

@@blurb9319The issue really isn’t whether or not the story justifies it, the issue is that they choose to put themselves through the wringer of justifying it instead of looking for historical women. This isn’t to say they can’t or shouldn’t do genderbends on occasion, but it should feel like a surprising twist. Overdoing it just makes the whole thing feel less creative than it could be.

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

​@peaceribbon8322 we have a decent amount of historical women, in fact, yet still no African or South Asian Heroic Spirits.

[@Triixster]

Musashi got booted out of her Lostbelt because she ate rice out of a Holy Grail (which she thought was a regular bowl), which gave her uncontrollable rayshifting abilities. This ironically saved her from getting pruned alongside her Lostbelt.

[@partyrock4144]

Fae knights excuse is basically “im actually cosplaying”

[@lenleon3699]

I do not think the Fae should even be considered. They were fairies with other identities to begin with. Heck, some of them lived centuries under their true identities before being “gifted” their knight names.

[@partyrock4144]

@@lenleon3699 they weren’t. That’s in the video.

[@sakuyabestgirl3418]

The reason why the Dioscuri were genderbent was for sibling VAs from what I recall.

[@fajartirta4934]

Honestly every servant that "actually im not him, im just their ---" can be pretender class

[@professorpengu502]

So iskanders shadow and Francis drake

[@AusSP]

This is the "Pokemon: Smash or Pass" of Fate content.

[@heyo9309]

The only reason i can think of for Caren being the vessel for Amour, Cupid and Eros is that in Latin Caren means beloved and in Welsh it means the one who loves which i guess makes sense? Pink hortensia's are also used to symbolize love. In her bond ce she's called Caren C. Hortensia (Amour (Caren)) which would make it love love. love (love(love))

[@lenleon3699]

Nasu actually said he suggested it because he wanted a lighthearted event centered on Caren. Amour is just a story construct used so the writer could showcase a less serious side of the Hollow Ataraxia Caren (she is confirmed to come from a similar background, unlike the Kaleid Liner version). In other words, there is no real reason beyond the fact it was a Valentine event.

[@heyo9309]

@@lenleon3699 HA Caren deserves something lighthearted that's for sure

[@CidGJosu]

As far as I understood it, the "Real deal Nobunaga" (the male one), its not the real Nobunaga but a version created from the public image of Nobunaga, exactly as he is described in the history books and stories, that has the power to make everyone believe that he is the real Nobunaga even though he's really just a fake one, and the female one us just the real one

[@tsf9600]

I always appreciate spiteful characters. So Kama taking what Parvati didn't want out of sheer spite is based AF in my book.

[@elecrom_9757]

-From my memory it's not that it is acknowledged that Nobu isn't the real Nobunaga the joke is that the perception of Nobunaga as a male is manifested as a version of Nobunaga during the war between the Nobunagas. Even Nobukatsu just infiltrated his forces to backstab him for his sister and says he is not the real Nobunaga. -If the LB7 Lore is consistent with PHH then the Mesoamerican gods are parts of Malla that bonded with humans so the god is only really existing when it has the body. That's why Quetzalcoatl does not have the Pseudoservant trait -Heian-kyo made it seem more like Ibuki existed as long as she stayed on the mountain. She remembers beeing with Kintoki there and acted like an older sister to him. Then when Kintoki left the mountain she followed him after a while and became Shuten. As Shuten she forgot her past on the mountain but her infatuation with Kintoki stayed.

[@kumaJoru]

I thought the reason Nero was female was because real life Nero insisted on being the bride at his own wedding

[@FirstLast-hd4oe]

My man!

[@lordglitch4266]

The reason Bunyan is a girl, in my headcanon, is because Riyo Gudako molded her out of udon, and Riyodako is a massive lesbian so she only summons/makes female servants, even if she has to genderbend them herself

[@Gnolte]

I remember reading that she was trying to make a 4* saberface And after that we get to battle against saber a, saber b and saber c

[@cheezybirb7810]

The Dioscuri are genderbent just so the voice actor and voice actress, who are twins, can voice a character together, it's really cute!

[@onepointsix3684]

I read the Bakin's profile and it is a bit off compare to what you discribed. The appearance is base of his daughter in law, because of the later portion of the story is written with the help of her. However, the parts that stated in the profile from fukuhime is only the age. So, the body is the daughter in law, with the age of the story character, with aspects from the story(dog features). I am only going off pure from the profile, I don't remember exactly what the event have said so maybe there are some information I missed.

[@henriquebecker4453]

29:57 in Heian-kyo lore is statet that they are both difefferent manifestations of the same entity that take turns on manifesting.

[@xaldrortenderofthevats8948]

a lot different to Raikou and Ushi Gozen, who are the same entity existing simultaneously, filtered through being either human or oni.

[@alexanderinoa7850]

I mean, we really don’t have any real world records of King Arthur or if he even existed, so her hiding her gender to act as the King since women couldn’t be kings, and combined with Caliburn/Excalibur’s granting her agelessness, meaning she perpetually looked like a young boy, makes sense. It definitely works better than D-tier at any rate.

[@Marika_ER]

King Arthur is obviously a myth, come on now 😂 but based on the myth, Arthur Is obviously male and there's no reason to make him a her outside of waifu

[@alexanderinoa7850]

@@Marika_ER No I’m talking about in Fate, not irl

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

so deon had breasts but not a vagina just penis well in my opinion thats not enough for a gender swap or a trans thing its just a biological thing that even a pastor said he had in the military so he was definitely still a man now if he had both sets of genitals then yeah that makes sense

[@LegendaryBossHunter]

Yeah Raikou deserves to be D tier. They were originally going to go with a male Raikou, but then Takeuchi whisper in Raita's ear like Douman and was like, "But what if Raikou, but tits?"

[@jackmonster3887]

And what's wrong with tits?

[@mylesobrien7477]

I want to dislike it outta principle it would make so much more sense, but goddamn I do like momma Raikou...

[@williamkwl6153]

*neuron activation*

[@xaldrortenderofthevats8948]

INCORRECT: the decision was to originally have Raikou and Ushi be the same person, however RAITA pointed out that "Ushi Gozen" translates into "Ox Lady". keeping the original decision and then having Raikou's gender change to match. an S-tier excuse, you cannot compete with it, and none of these other servants ever remotely scratch the surface when it comes to the consequences of this genderbend, while Raikou gets two entire Interludes about it.

[@nob1803]

I don't know how to tell you this but the "Real Deal Nobunaga" was a joke and not meant to be taken seriously. I genuinely don't understand how you could read that part of the story and come away with any other conclusion that it was supposed to be a joke and not a part of fate Nobu's lore.

[@AusSP]

Especially when it's the event with 5+ different Nobus, not a single one of them being compatible with the others, including the other "official" male Nobunaga.

[@jonathangoodwin5609]

Jokes are the deepest lore.

[@Gnolte]

10:14 it's guda 4, the nobu war gudaguda and he's literraly called "real deal nobunaga"

[@ronn201]

To add onto Altria/Artoria's gender-bend meta reason, is because Nasu originally wrote Fate as a female master who summons King Arthur (pro-Arthur), but then reversed their genders under advisement. However, the lore reason is that by pulling Caliburn out of the stone caused her to stop aging and was presumed to never hit puberty. Altria/Artoria Lancer however, is based on her Lion King divergent from the Camelot Singularity, where she survived without Excalibur and continued aging. And then continued to rule with an iron fist who murdered all her detractors with her fanatic knights so gender stopped mattering. As the one that kicked off gender-bends in all of anime, I'd giver her at least an A or B. Nero's meta reason is because they wanted a Saber face without it being Altria. I didn't play Extra to know what the lore reason, though with Nero striving for beautiful things, I wouldn't be surprised if the meta reason was because he wanted to be a Saber-face. Nobunaga's male variant is the Avenger second ascension. This fits supposedly, because the second ascension was something that was closer to what they were in life, and third ascension is an idealised form. I would have rated Da Vinci at S, lol. An in-universe and lore-compatible reason would have been in how important it is for Servants to obscure their true identity, otherwise you can defeat them with their same (conceptual) weaknesses from their life. That Da Vinci took on the visage of his Mona Lisa is both an object extrinsically tied to his identity, as well as obscure who he is. (This was also one of the reasons why in original Fate, that Altria/Artoria obscured her sword, as it would have been easier to deduce her identity that way.) The dog one is crazy lmao

[@saxor96]

I have never seen Red Hare mentioned as a mare except when talking about FGO's Red Hare in specific in fandom talks. Never sources, just people saying there are sources.

[@banbowyt8945]

Could the title of Jack the Ripper possibly outnumber the amount of Hassans

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

Most likely

[@casteanpreswyn7528]

Outnumber. Probably not, though it may be the only title to even come close to rivaling the title of Hassan.

[@FirstLast-hd4oe]

I can think of eleven on the spot.

[@barrettturner9443]

Actually from in game lore Quetzalcoatl and the other Mesoamerican gods are actually alien bacteria that came on the meteorite that killed the dinosaurs. They continued to possess different hosts throughout history and did such amazing things that Gaia made them gods. Also that women that Quetzalcoatl appears as in their rider form was her last host before the gods vanished from the world. I believe Quetzalcoatl mentioned this to us in the Babylonian singularity.

[@AusSP]

And before anyone says that's crazy... the whole "god impersonation -> become that god" thing is 100% part of their mythology. The alien part is made up, sure, but they believed that if you dress up as a god, their spirit inhabits you. So, exactly the same as Pseudo-Servants. So the bodies they have are always them possessing people, so they can be any sex, really. (And then comes the human sacrifice.)

[@ollin-tonatiuh6418]

​@@AusSP Except the Quetzalcoatl we have in game, who for some stupid reason is stated to *NOT* be a Pseudo-Servant (they never explain why either).

[@FirstLast-hd4oe]

There's a legend where quetz comes out of a human woman maybe fate quetz is just pregnant with her true form.

[@lenleon3699]

@@ollin-tonatiuh6418 She is not considered one because she was not sone random vessel they put a divine spirit inside, we literally summoned one of the hosts of Quetz. Pseudo servants are divine spirits who inhabit a vessel DURING summoning. They were not fused before it. In other words, both the host and the divine spirit are considered to be the same thing. Which kind of means the aliens basically body snatched real humans, not just spiritual shadows.

[@ollin-tonatiuh6418]

@@lenleon3699 I know her Servant Profile says she comes from the Throne of Heroes, but is it *ACTUALLY* stated in game that she technically isn't the real Quetzalcoatl, but instead one of his hosts (that thinks she is Quetzalcoatl and has his Authorities) that was recorded in the Throne? Spiritual shadow? What do you mean by that?

[@mrsheldon9134]

You my friend are quite lenient. I'd have put all of them into E tier save for D'eon, Orion, Red Hare, and Faker. All of the servants I put into E tier for one reason and one reason only: because no matter how good their excuses are in the end they are still latching on to the fame of the real historical/mythical character like a parasite, leeching off their fame and deeds without being deserving of them. Eg; Musashi. So she's from an alternate timeline, so what? You still call her Musashi. She's still famous for many of the things the real Musashi did, like the sword style. But why does she get to be in the story over the real Musashi? Because she's a waifu. Another reason I put those servants into E tier is if they are a pseudo servant using an OC as a body. Eg; Kama, Reines, Jinako, Caren, Bazett, etc etc. AS for the servants I don't put in E tier, like you said, D'eon is transgender, they didn't change anything. Their gender is not defined in FGO, they are a genderless servant. Eg; Carmilla/Jack's NP does not deal extra damage to them. Ergo they are not female. Orion, like you said, is not genderbent. Red Hare is not genderbent because Red Hare was never a mare. He was a stallion. The "fact" about him being a mare is total bullshit. Refer to this reddit post: www.reddit.com/r/grandorder/comments/1apuecc/red_hare_being_a_mare_is_not_true/ And finally, Faker, who is in D tier, barely scraping past my very exacting standards. She is an OC, a made up twin of Hephaestion who is a real historical character. But, at least she's not supposed to be an alternate timeline version of Hephaestion like Musashi.

[@dirtydeedsdirtcheep3007]

My one problem is that you have a fusion card in the background

[@feijesuskucaliz633]

it was easy to said that artoria is arthur from another universe lol

[@rebeccalotto8001]

:O , is this Klidge's stage 2 art or just an SD?

[@christineannclerino4008]

May the spirit origins be multiple of 2 or more in a single character base in myth. I tried searching about nero is about the storyline and the saint graph of the roman soldier. In my opinion it was combine of the saint graphs.

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

Deon was a man with serious genetic deffect/ hormonal disfunction. And tnx to that gender disphoria. Well, it did help him in his job.

[@desmondmalone438]

13:42 also it a form that modeled after Aoi Yuki

[@jinrapper9556]

It's pretty simple as to why the discouri our genderbend. It's because if your gonna genderbend someone might as well make one of the twins female. Also in my personal opinion fate doesn't really need a reason as to why they genderbend someone, it's an alternate universe different from ours. Babbage ain't a robot man, Edison not a lion, and tesla doesn't have his mustache.

[@maegaman1519]

To be fair to the former two, they only became non-human after they became Servants. I think they revealed Babbage's appearance as a living human in a volume of Chaldea Ace, and he was a clean-shaven man with a boyish face and mousy hair that parted down the middle; it honestly reminds me of Kensuke from Evangelion when I think back on it.

[@Sasorislovery]

I’d sooner believe the hiring both VA siblings excuse than that

[@henriquebecker4453]

27:56 the writers wanted to use twin VAs for the characters and that's why they changed Polux's gender, lore wise I heard from a quiz video that there is a version of the Discori legend were the twins were a boy and a girl wich tose characters on Fate are based on, however I heard no explenation for neither that version of the legend existing nor that the writters used it as an inspiration, so I asume this is BS that the guy who made the quiz did to make no one get the answer right.

[@FirstLast-hd4oe]

In China the constellation that is gemini are brother and sister.

[@Emperorwolf999]

I would like to see you rank the pseudo servants

[@roc2936]

So Arturia was the 3rd John Money experiment that didnt kill thrmself. Neat 🤣

[@culin2953]

In defense of Artoria, she did hide her gender for most of her political career and we, in modern day, don't really know much about Arthur's(Of his historical inspiration's) life, so, logistically, information about her gender could easily have been lost. Still not the best excuse, but unlike Nero, we have basically no historical records on Arthur.

[@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec]

We have a good reason for Nero too. It’s called being the mother harlot

[@dannydoo8717]

​@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec not really, real life Nero was associated with the beast of 666 not harlot, fate is retroactively justifying it

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

6:56 Hmm... wouldn't that make f. Drake is a possible pretender candidate

[@betrangustama]

Technically she CAN be a pretender

[@abrawolf]

I now need queen Elizabeth I as a bara man in a ball gown

[@Treasure_hunter_21]

​@@abrawolfpls no! this shit is so cursed!!!!!!

[@abrawolf]

@@Treasure_hunter_21 that's why it needs to happen

[@partyrock4144]

When it comes to pseudo servants of modern people I assume that the body is snatched from singularity F unless otherwise specified since it’s a dead end timeline where the people we see should all exist. That way there’s effectively a spare body of each character.

[@lenleon3699]

Plus I believe the idea is that we are summoning spiritual recreations of their bodies anyway. So their bodies are still there, just non-existing until we fix the world. Otherwise there would be no excuse for how Muramasa got summoned TWICE even though he literally kamikaze himself in Shimousa.

[@coconut_tv0564]

I don't care what anyone else say, Davinci's is so funny and dumb that it has to be at the top of S or hecc it even deserves it's own tier

[@45jordan78]

You can say that Nero was made female to lean more into the Whore of Babylon archetype that the real world Nero is sometimes related to. Its even part of her story in her first appearance, but it gets ignored in most of her appearances. Although Beast Nero brings it back in full context. If I remember the lore of Quetz, she's an alien being that needs a human body in order to interact with humanity. As such, the bodies she 'possesses', becomes her body. That's why in Babylonia, she had her full divinity, unlike Ishtar and Eresh. She's mentioned that she's had male and female bodies before. She mentioned that she materialized in the feminine form because she's also a goddess of Venus like Ishtar and wanted to be similar, iirc.

[@JesustheKingofZion]

Pls I need help, I have cleared lb6 but lb7 is not showing did I miss something in the game?

[@klidge]

If you play on NA you’ve got to wait for it to release in December of 2024. If you’re on JP you may need to clear Tunguska first. If not then I’ve got no clue

[@JesustheKingofZion]

@@klidge So have to wait till December 2024 to play it?

[@desmondmalone438]

24:58 yep he’s ready for a fight with those fans with that answer lol

[@redjirachi1]

Who here thinks that if we see as US president as a Servant for the first time, they're going to be turned into a waifu?

[@sibsart2039]

I really hope Quetz’s vessal actually becomes a character in the future.

[@desmondmalone438]

15:08 boy I wonder how that works in the new chip and dale movie

[@Yunglex313]

Let's be real here y'all. We all know well, in truth, the real reason Arthur is female is because to decision makers in Type Moon's office didn't believe that a female protagonist would sell to a most male dominated audience of VN player. Takeuchi's loving the character design he made is beside that point.

[@Nusutto]

I mean we know thats true for all of them so its pointless to go off that reason.

[@BddgamesBR]

Missed Sancho Panza, I don't know the explanation for his genderbend but it could be interesting.

[@poampoa]

If I remember correctly, she's every secondary character in the novel combined. So Sancho's role, plus Dulcinea's appearance, plus Rocinante's horse traits, etc. Not sure how it works in terms of identity, though.

[@Llucmenork]

I was told once that Nero used to dress in female attire, since he really liked it. I guess thats something.

[@Nyan_nii]

24:15 POV my chinese ass hearing you say that and going all the way to my phone on my non school account to tell you that i hears this proverb like 5 times (i dont live in china ok. Woulda heard it more probs)

[@demonslayer7346]

Weren't the gemini genderbent because the voice actors were twin brother and sister?

[@quinnsmith2400]

30:17 pretty sure it’s mt. ibuki and i say this only because supposedly Yamato Takeru got into a fire with “a god of mt. Ibuki” whoever that could be…

[@user-bn7qm4nw1k]

I whoud argue that artoria and raiko whoud be in c tiear because they have lore reason to be misgendered

[@user-bn7qm4nw1k]

Tecnicaly also xu fu

[@desmondmalone438]

Because he thinks there no reason for them to female regardless of that hence D to him

[@desmondmalone438]

27:54 Kilage is *Hooked on The Brothers* to know that siblings between brothers and sisters are a perfect Gemini then just two brothers or sisters

[@the19soul]

Bended excuses indeed.

[@tamamonomae2740]

quetzalcoatl is supposedly possessing the body of an Aztec ruler who matched her. So yes this is just saying this is a genderbend for no reason. so closer to C Danzo should be at B though since it makes sense that no one would think a doll ninja would be the real ninja yet at the same time giving the doll ninja an easy way to escape issues. Kama is due to her being an aspect of pravarti I believe. So it's more of an issue of character correlation more then lore reasoning. Still B Sima yi however should be C. Proto merlin is a B or A. Specifically depending on if you consider her as as a miyamoto situation where the reality she is from, she is a genderbend and her gender is seen as female thus correct or if you see her as not merlin but something that uses the name merlin (lady of the lake?????).

[@lenleon3699]

Kama is because she picked up the Dark Sakura psyche that Parvati removed from Sakura in order to spite Parvati. There is no other reason and she is not even inhabiting a body per-se. she is just inhabiting a flesh bag that looks like Sakura but is not Sakura.

[@tamamonomae2740]

@@lenleon3699 ay. No. She inhabits Sakura's body. Specifically dark sakura but sakura. Reasoning being what I said. It's why shakti and durga (I believe) are sakura faces as well despite having no relation to sakura unlike pavarti

[@lenleon3699]

@@tamamonomae2740 Dark Sakura is not Sakura though, just the dregs from her soul created through her experiences as the Black Grail. That is what I meant by she is not Sakura. All Kamadeva does is take a bunch of dregs Parvati removed from Sakura’s soul and fashion a body from it. Hence why there is not even a hint of Sakura’s personality, or Dark Sakura for that matter. It’s all Kamadeva.

[@Kingjder02]

Kukul-Puffs. I love her.

[@pedrorosa9893]

I see deon as a Intersex person

[@kylesky74]

wasn't the drake thing made non canon in FGO though?

[@FirstLast-hd4oe]

Well which is it.

[@lenleon3699]

No, Fate said nothing, they just show Drake, never address it. As long as they do not retconnit by word of god or actual writing then the drape thing is still a possibility.

[@FirstLast-hd4oe]

The constellation that is gemini are brother and sister in most eastern mythology.

[@frenchgoose2712]

Pollux of the Dioscuri getting genderbent makes no sense, and it ruins the balance of the original story because Castor and Pollux aren’t twins, they’re quadruplets. It’s supposed to be the brothers Castor and Pollux, and the sisters Clytemnestra and Helen.

[@lenleon3699]

They were never going to use the quadruplets angle, which is not a constant.

[@elenidjuriric308]

The Homer's version of Dioscuri (and Helen of Troy) doesn't apply here, the version used is where Lyda conceived Pollyx by Zeus and Castor by her husband, Tyndareos, in the same night. If we really want to stretch it, you can point the duality of "Son of a man, Daughter of a God," but the genders are wrong in my opinion. It's probably because the VAs are twins and they didn't want to force Pollyx's VA into a male voice.

[@yehudasolomon7919]

I thought the dioscuri were genderbent cause they wanted to use twin va's

[@cernunnos8344]

Does Jack even counts as a genderbend ? It's not "the actual Jack the Ripper, but female" it's the souls of the aborted children in London, basically a different character, while strange/fake Jack is the very concept of the mystery of JTR

[@Nyan_nii]

25:01 also pov me coming back to tell ya’ll Sima Yi is pronounced uh shoot this hard to write Suh-Mah Yee

[@desmondmalone438]

25:34 eh yo Lil Kongming

[@doctorshotgun1707]

You know, I'm surprised no one brings up Grace O'Malley when talking about Drake being a genderbend, since, well, she acts more like Grace did, and she and Drake were both contemporaries with ties to Liz 1.

[@leysonmose]

If your counting pseudo servants as genderbent why not include Mash?

[@voidhorizon8980]

Damn some of these characters I didn’t even know were gender bend

[@starninjacam7774]

IBARAKI 🔛🔝

[@Emperorwolf999]

I didn't know Déon was a hermaphrodite/Androgyny

[@TheGarfield0]

Surely Daikoukoten is 'Not a genderbend' if those aren't him then?

[@cernunnos8344]

Man Klidge is weird: fictional character is not the "assumed" gender-> D tier Historical character is not the "assumed" gender because they're from another world-> A tier Idk but justifying a real character being the other gender because they're from a parallel world or something is 10 times more lazy than what Artoria has going on but ok

[@FirstLast-hd4oe]

Nero crossdressed often even wearing a wedding dress and even some legends say he hot on men. That's probably why they genderbent him

[@seraph_dalgon_9216]

Nah, I still think Artoria should be higher. Yes, her thing is that she's a "history was wrong" type genderbend but it's compounded by the fact she actively hid her true gender from everyone in life except her closest confidants and Guinevere. History was wrong cuz she hid the truth in her mad pursuit of being the ideal king. Plus, with the added caveat of Caliburn stopping her aging (which gives her the leverage of being able to pass as an effeminate-looking boy, something that even Fate Zero comments on) there are suitable enough in-game lore reasons for the genderbend that should justify a higher place.

[@danieljohnson9917]

25:00 Okay, I can take second place, that's a difference in opinion. But there is NO way Sakura is a worse girl than the cardboard that is F/SN Saber.

[@cernunnos8344]

If Artoria is D tier "because the artist wanted to draw a female character" I'm sorry but they're all D tier then. You can explain every genderbend in Fate. Also it's not that history was "wrong", king Arthur is a fictional character, and Artoria hid her gender with Merlin's magic, so no one talked about her being female

[@Sasorislovery]

The real reason why lb7 kuku is female personally disappoints me. Like the reason why they exist is cool but why they’re female is eh.

[@jonathangoodwin5609]

I personally dont think that them acknowledging the contradiction automatically makes it better. My saw I 'just another dimension version of Musashi who might as well be our Musashi with all the knowledge and memories and experiences' is not a good excuse, no matter how much they aknowledge it. Its a good plot point that opens up story telling, but its a lazy, shit tier excuse for genderbending.

[@MaxHDAvenger]

Oh boy I don't want to comment about Kukulkan not because of Lostbelt 7 spoilers and you got fucked but you're not ready for the bombshell spoiler

[@TheKreve]

Bro you can't do us sakura fans like that, Fgo already fucked us over by making parvati 4 star.

[@Marika_ER]

Who cares? I still love Parvati, my favorite Sakura face

[@TheKreve]

@@Marika_ER she is the only one that is actually like sakura. This game has like 9 Sakura faces and only parvati behaves like sakura.....

[@Marika_ER]

@@TheKreve and?

[@TheKreve]

She is the most sakura of all the sakura faces and she is the only one that is 4 star and permanent@@Marika_ER

[@lenleon3699]

A year later and your rating for genderbends is still as nonsensical as ever.

[@Marika_ER]

Seemed clear to me

[@lenleon3699]

@@Marika_ER His biases are clear but they are as biased as ever and his placement for sone characters are still weird. Especially when he has two characters who have literally the same excuse, but places one higher than the other.

[@Marika_ER]

@@lenleon3699 such as?

[@Stormrunner0]

@@Marika_ER I know this is four months later, but Proto Merlin. Oni like Shuten can get a pass because they can change shapes, but an incubus doesn't get the same pass? Incubi and succubi can both change their shapes.

[@Strike-nz5gy]

*Looks at Record of Ragnarock’s version of Daikokuten* I think they dodged a bullet picking his familiars over him….. (For the record, I don’t hate the design, I just think it’s weird)

[@professorpengu502]

I mean to be fair Artoria spent her whole life going out of her way to pretend to be male Ps if Deon was trans do they count as a genderbend?

[@lenleon3699]

Not really?

[@professorpengu502]

@@lenleon3699 just wondering because he included her

[@lenleon3699]

@@professorpengu502 Yeah. But by all means they are not. In life they went by both male and female guises, and in FGO they are basically unknown gender. Her gender is the gender the summoner perceives them to be. I would consider Enkidu to be genderbent way before D’eon, as Enkidu was a male mythological figure that Narita and Nasu changed into a “no gender” clay doll that takes the guise of a woman.

[@yarigold]

Personaly i find King Arthur's reason so stupid, because everyone (except for a select few) somehow failed to recognise her true gender and thought she was a boy, hence the legend of "king" Arthur. (Meanwhile Shirou straight up saw through the bad disguise). And while i understand the reason (because a female could not become a king in those times and Merlin's prophesy), they barely even tried to hide it... It becomes even more stupid later on in FGO when it's revealed that there are female knights and appearently Saber lily was a real thing. At this point they really should not bother anymore.

[@gypsysprite4824]

imo Saber Lily really should have been reconned into being an Alter--Ego (The concept, not the class neccesarily, since Alter Egos don't need to be said class as of OC1/PAPERMOON), but alas, Saber Lily existed for way too long before Alter Egos were a thing, let alone when they became more than just an indicator of BB's kinda-sorta-basically-children

[@lenleon3699]

@@gypsysprite4824 I believe the idea is that Merlin and Kay hid her identity during her traveling years. That is why even in FGO it is described that Saber Lily is just a fantasy, what Artoria felt and would have loved to be during her early years. The truth is that Merlin and Kay toughened her up during those years and she was nowhere that bubbly in her training days.

[@gypsysprite4824]

@@lenleon3699 If that is correct, then it would make Saber Lily a textbook Alter-Ego in all but class (which isn't needed) and official designation. huh

[@lenleon3699]

@@gypsysprite4824 Yeah, she is basically a type of Alter Ego, an aspect of Artoria. She is just not labeled such because she was created way before Extra CCC created the idea of Egos.

[@gypsysprite4824]

@@lenleon3699 they should make it official rather than leave most fans thinking there is a bit of a plothole with the whole "hiding Artoria's gender in life" thing

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

mordred is female because astolfo was a trap

[@NotSoGoodDark]

FGO is just a fanfiction. Not even the type that keeps up with its own logic. The type that does what it wants while doing the minimum of what it needs to, to keep itself from contradicting it to oblivion

[@PsuNotPsu]

My Waifus are originally females in my head canon 😂

[@samarius_art_and_games]

Artoria was made female because eroge typically have male protagonists and female heroines, and Nasu feared possible backlash of it were the reverse.

[@Sasorislovery]

D tier for nasu being a coward then

[@yamoneteru]

Not Nasu, it was Takeuchi's fault

[@AusSP]

"Feared backlash"? Uh, no. It was to sell more. Are you joking? You know that Shoujo is a huge genre, right? And that Fate was only technically an eroge - there's like one sex scene per route.

[@lenleon3699]

Incorrect, the real reason is that the novel is action-based and not really aimed at women. So he was convinced there was a real possibility that it would undersell if they used Shoujo-like protagonists for a shounen story, it was their first commercial VN so they chose the smart thing. Similarly they added H scenes because eroge sells more than all-ages.

[@Sasorislovery]

@@lenleon3699 too bad it turned out to be the worst part of the game then. Other than that I find the rest hard to believe.

[@cernunnos8344]

I didn't know Shuten was supposed to be male 😂 what does she identify as ?