Ranking Redemptors! Breaking Down ALL Space Marine Primaris Dreadnughts in 40k | Datasheet Deep-Dive

[@tajj7]

DC Dread doesn't need a chaplain for hit re-rolls in melee, just for the fall back and OC.

[@TacticalTortoise]

Oh shit you're totally right, I misread the rule entirely (awkward because that's how the old one worked lol). Makes the DCD decidedly better than the Brutalis actually. Great callout 👌

[@larsrauther2362]

​@@TacticalTortoise No the death company rule in general gives the reroll. Before and now, the chaplain was only for the fall back and oc as stated above. The only thing changed from index to codex is, that they Limited the rerolls to melee attacks only, before it was for ranged as well.

[@TheProteanGeek]

@@TacticalTortoise you may have misread that rule from the get go because it is the same as the old one and all other death company units (except doesn't work for range now). When you read so many rules for so many models, and especially if you have been playing for multiple editions, it does get easy to get a bit mixed up at times though.

[@Sanctjud]

As far as I can tell, the Ballistus is there to be a Durable platform to start hurting tanks/monsters. If durability is not something you need in your list, then paying 20 points more for a Gladiator Lancer would better fulfil the anti-big-target role. Brutalis got a point drop recently, but feels still too expensive; 150 might be the sweet spot, 'cause at 160, that is Gladiator territory. Redemptor is paying a premium for being a damage sponge; 210 is pretty steep, but, if they add a rule that the Redemptor can throw a statue at a Heldrake to instantly kill it, I would pay for it.

[@TacticalTortoise]

Brutalis is def too expensive rn I'd love to see it get a speed buff - getting it into melee is a PITA and doesn't feel worth it, but making them cheap would work too

[@Sanctjud]

Didn't Brutalis used to have 10" move? I'd take off the Gun Hat for +move or advance and charge inherently.

[@tajj7]

The AP2 on these dread is annoying, the previous BAs Dreads, the Furioso and the old DC Dread both had AP3 and that was key to them, but the new DC Dread has lost that which is sad. When you get AOC and you are only attack with 6A, you really are not going to do much damage with AP1 against vehicles, monsters etc. They are also all too expensive still (aside Ballistus), the Redemptor pays far too much for being jack of all trades because that is actually not a great thing, it struggles into basically any target with swingy shooting, unreliable AP2 melee and then it is fairly tough but -1 damage against high damage anti-tank is not doing a lot and it has no invul so high AP anti-tank, some of which ignore cover, or people stack ignores cover and +1 AP against it like sisters, it will go down pretty quick for something over 200pts.

[@egewithin]

Yeah AP-2 on walkers is really annoying. Same goes for Maulerfiend. AP-2 on a profile of S14 and Damage D6+1 is absurd.

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

Now imagine if they gave us a redemptor-chassis libbie dread. All it would take is an upgrade sprue.

[@mathiasschulze6148]

For my Dark Angels list I love the Dreadnoughts. In my current list I play 2 Redemotor and 1 Brutalis. They are a good distraction to the opponent and overshadow the Terminators so they can act more freely.

[@mathiasschulze6148]

After I built my Carnes Rex I was tempted to start a Knight army. Then I looked at my SM tank collection and wrote an Ironstorm list with 5 dreadnough 3 Techmarines and Rex as an Ally. It is working rly well and the Dreadnoughts looking so much better than the Armigers.

[@Sanctjud]

Armigers are a little more flexible than the Primaris Dreads, they bring some melee ability, some anti-tank, fast, battleline utility.

[@mathiasschulze6148]

@@Sanctjud Armigers are not rly a threat to tanks and the Dreads kill off Infantry way better. They are more expensive for sure.

[@Sanctjud]

I rather like their melta than say the Valiant.

[@captaincorundum9788]

I'm running a Champions of Russ list with 3 redemptors and 2 brutalis, and I gotta say it does way better than I thought it would Like, it is actually kind of amazing

[@kibanchick]

Speaking about death company drednought - you do not need Chaplain in your army to gain access to reroll to hit. Chaplain only lets you fall back and have an OC.

[@Picky1982]

I'm fairly sure the death company dreadnought gets re roll hits regardless of a chaplain being within 12". The chaplain only changes the OC and the fall back option.

[@TheProteanGeek]

yeah I was coming here into the comments to make the same point. I'm a Blood Angels player and that's the standard Death Company rule on other units and I have never seen anyone else interpret it that the chaplain needs to be nearby to get the reroll.

[@vidarthorsby2052]

I remember a stormlance SW list that ran 3 febrisian dreadnoughts and 3 brutal is dreadnoughts, 3 jump pack squads with jump pack chaplain. All those units have impact/ activation mortal wounds. They ran down a lot of demons on stream. (The febrisian dreadnoughts is siiick for this.)

[@glb190]

I’ve been working on a Blood Angel list for Crusade mode. I love the DC Dread, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s worth more than the Brutalis. I’ll be fielding a Brut, and stick it in a Stormraven along with the Assault Intercessor death blob. Should help keep the Brut alive to get it up close and start shredding. The big downside in Crusade is DC units can’t take battle traits, but can acquire special Scars.

[@TheProteanGeek]

I like taking my dual Ballistus in my armies. I play Blood Angles but have been mostly been playing more like a Salamander with the Firestorm Assault which works really cool because you can advance and shoot them. I keep at least them around or on my home objective most of the time. I think I'll be keeping them in my future lists moving away from Firestorm too with the new BA codex. I'm interested to see how the DC Brutalis plays out. I loved my Brutalis in 9th but haven't used it in 10th because it just didn't seem worth the cost, at least not in the lists I was taking.

[@nurglematthew893]

Best-in-Slot Bullies!! Nurgle Bless the Dreadheads

[@matthewpletsch7523]

Fun fact, DC dread has a weaker Stubber. It is not -1 ap like the Brutalis

[@AndrewHastwell]

nice one dude

[@nicholasschian6651]

I for one like the Brutalis at the new 160 price point. Works great in FAF or Stormlance. I usually use it as a Rapid Ingress threat like a distraction Carnifex. Must be dealt with or it can relatively easily clean up a side. If it goes down, it usually ate enough firepower to allow a portion of the army to secure the flank. If not, it can clean the multitude of MSU units with ease and often times put enough on a big tank (usually with standard reserves Eradicators supporting) to push it through.

[@Sanctjud]

Carnifex are 125 though, so: expensive distraction Carnifex, which sounds like an oxymoron.

[@nicholasschian6651]

@@Sanctjud but tougher and slightly broader threat application. T10 vs T9, 12W vs 8W. Impact mortals, tank shock, Access to AoC, etc…Justifiable 35pt more expensive.

[@TacticalTortoise]

Carnifex are also unmitigated trash for 125, so I'm not sure the comparison is great. Idt the Brutalis is very good, but I'd take it over a Carni every single day 🤣

[@darkskies2260]

I’m curious on people’s opinion on what is better to run in sisters the dominion squad or the sisters of battle?

[@TacticalTortoise]

Dominion Squads hands down Battle Sisters very rarely see play

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

I do apologize for the off topic-ness od this question, but your statement regarding *Drigen By Fury's* out of phase move allowing you to move the unit into engagement range... does that ruling apply to the strat in Annihilation Legion now?

[@TacticalTortoise]

No - Insanity's Ire is explicitly a Normal Move, which is prevented from entering engagement. It's only the blood surge effects that provide special types of moves (like "Go Get Em) that can enter engagement (or the ones that explicitly say they can).

[@johnj.spurgin7037]

@@TacticalTortoise darn. I was hoping GW might have not shafted Annihilation Legion as much as I thought, but so much for that.

[@Naddabeht]

So Brutalis dreadnought not as great as: jump assault intercessors, assault intercessors, or blade guard? My balistus is great at softening up a target, and actually makes my predator annihilator look like a rock star. I had them I would take a lancer.

[@nicoleandscottnelson3933]

My friend! They dont need a chaplain!

[@Gretstarret]

7:11 *Ap-2, not AP-3

[@rlira0908]

Ballistus now 130 😂

[@dirtyblonde1011]

Last time I was this early, Nids still had Hieradules as a tournament legal unit

[@TommieN0tt]

I normally agree with your lists but the ballistus just isn't great. Compared to the redemptor

[@TacticalTortoise]

I'd give the Ballistus another look if I were you It definitely doesn't do as much damage as a Redemptor, but it is *50%* cheaper and can poke enemies from 48" away

[@Wes-xk6hl]

The game needs more armies that are cool on the table. Idk everyone seems to hate it when that happens Like ctan necrons, or knights, or dreadnoughts, etc. Theyre never good for long if at all. And as soon as theyre good, ppl start complaining like crazy

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment... Dreadnought spam.

[@cruelmole]

Couldn't disagree more about the ballistus. Unless your goal is to have a model that never does anything

[@tajj7]

2 lascannons shots, 2 high strength missile shots, that most of the time re-rolls hits on a T10 2+ save 12W platform for only 140pts, what more do you want? the moon on a stick? He is not saying it's going to singlehandedly win you a game or nuke your enemies but provides solid, reliable, long range anti-tank that doesn't need detachment buffs or oaths focus on a sturdy hard to kill platform for cheap points so have 2/3 in these list, 3 are only 420 points for 6 lascannons and 6 missiles, plus 36 T10 2+ wounds

[@cruelmole]

@@tajj7 I have run them a lot. In a huge variety of different lists and detachments and they consistently do literally nothing. The missiles are ass and the lascannons are just lascannons. 140 for two lascannons is really bad

[@tajj7]

@@cruelmole Saying they do 'literally nothing' is a factually stupid argument. Again not sure what you are expecting from 140 pts? But whatever it is, it is completely absurd, no wonder people make comments about marine players being entitled when people like you make these sort of comments.

[@cruelmole]

@@tajj7 Obviously you haven't heard of hyperbole... For 140 points I'm expecting a unit that performs the role it's meant to do. If it's meant to be anti tank I want consistency. Wounding on 4s and 3s or 5s and 4s with 4 shots, no wound re rolls and low ap is bad. Even a gladiator which is fairly flimsy you're lucky if you get 1 wound through the save. If I want anti tank I'm going to take Erads or something of that nature.

[@JohnDoe-rp7mf]

@everyone-reading this thread, I think some people get lucky with the ballistus and some don’t, I’ve actually managed to get my points worth in 1 game, but many others I’ve spoken too have said it has never performed well enough to justify. So I think this is a case by case and luck of the draw. Nice profile to sit on backfield objective but at that point the lancer could do the same…