Rappelling Valhalla

Rappelling into the 227' deep Valhalla Cave Pit in Alabama

[@ColtsGaming]

As a rock climber it's super interesting seeing the difference in systems used in caving vs. climbing. Descender rack looks sick!

[@connor401]

If you haven't already seen it, here's a good video that explains caving descenders in more detail: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWKXmIiarL99qtk

[@adventureswithfrodo2721]

You don't understand the difference in why of the two methods.

[@yfelwulf]

Actually it looks difficult to control

[@j.ksmith7432]

@@yfelwulfmy thoughts exactly! Its a very long time since I did any rock climbing, abseiling or caving and the memory isn’t what it was, however, I don’t recall needing all that gear nor taking that amount of time! Better safe than sorry I suppose! 😜

[@yfelwulf]

@@j.ksmith7432 problem is if it gets too complicated you can create problems you don't need

[@giacomogh3238]

Many differences between US caving technique and EU ! Fascinating!

[@missstrangequark]

Was just thinking the same. In eu we mostly use petzl stop descender, never even seen this one

[@MikeWilson-rm1fl]

valhalla is one of my favorite caves!!! Absolutely beautiful . the twin domes cant be explained to someone who has never seen them .

[@zanedietlin7645]

230 feet. That’s just bonkers. Does the cave lead anywhere passable after that first pit?

[@connor401]

There is about a mile of horizontal passage at the bottom, but we didn't explore it on this trip.

[@SkyHigh8800]

Amazing visuals! How long does it take to get back up?

[@connor401]

The climb back out can take anywhere from 10-30+ minutes depending on the type of ascending system and the fitness of the individual.

[@skyclimber3934]

Nice video, thanks for posting! I still remember many times waiting for people to go up or down at the old register site.

[@Matrix7041]

I love that perfect ledge to rest your feet on while you get the rope pad dealt with. East coast caving is so cool

[@trevordaniels8730]

Not trying to be over the top or anything, but it's best to use two wraps on the tree. Awesome video though!

[@connor401]

We used four wraps

[@trevordaniels8730]

Rewatched and caught it in the first second of the video!

[@MrSaxophonix]

Sheesh! That drop below! Thanks for sharing.

[@TarikVann]

Love the safety clip that provided very little safety at all. And I was about to question the lack of backup but I saw the fireman's belay.

[@connor401]

How exactly does the "safety clip" provide very little safety?

[@TarikVann]

​@@connor401 from what is shown you clip onto the working end of a strand that goes around a tree and straight into a loop, if you were to slip there is a chance that shock loading that loop would cause it to feed through and you would continue to slide unless you self arrested. Having someone at the bottom holding on is key and the gravity force on the rope should hopefully be enough, but just having a sling around the tree to clip into makes it 100% safe and takes seconds. Looks like clipping into the loop would have been alot safer as it looks like it's cinched onto by the other loops around the tree.

[@connor401]

@@TarikVann Watch closer. It is not simply looped around the tree. The rope comes up out of the cave and wraps around the tree three times. This friction against the tree provides the anchoring force and allows the use of 100% of the rope strength as opposed to a knot. This is standard procedure for a tensionless anchor. After making the three wraps, the loose end is attached back to the main line using a figure 8 to close the system. This both prevent it from unwrapping and provides backup in the unlikely case of slippage. The area between the tree and the knot acts as a traverse line that can be clipped into using the tether (also called a cowstail). This provides fall protection while rigging and testing the descender.

[@TarikVann]

@@connor401 if clipped on to the Strand with the figure 8 then it's is definitely safe. Clipping to the rappel line is hoping that your slip won't shock load the system with more force than the gravitational force on the rope otherwise you'd just pull up the rappel line (essentially unthreading the rappel line) and keep sliding until you self arrest or fall off the edge. This may be safe for this really long rappel but if it was a 10-20 metre rappel where you clipped in would be very unsafe.

[@connor401]

@@TarikVann I see what you're saying now. The non-standard terminology had me really confused as to what you were talking about. Good observation!

[@ave14401]

damn and i thought the ravines in minecraft were exaggerated

[@TheCCBoi]

Wow, hell of a drop!

[@DoglinsShadow]

That is incredible. I would love to explore that !!!

[@octaveergebel877]

L'équipement n'est pas top du tout,je descendrais pas la dessus.

[@connor401]

Explain?

[@devherrick5775]

You wouldn’t go down regardless of gear

[@croissantman8809]

@@connor401 he doesnt like the way you rigged the cave , in france / europe we do not rig like this , me mostly use "alpine" rigging , so we avoid the friction by using succesive "relays" and do not use pvc mats ,we also use smaller diameter ropes (8mm is very popular ) and very different descenders so this can seem a bit sketchy for us europeans even if your are doing it correctly x) . also i saw some little details that attracted my attention : at the start your figure 8 is not very tight even if its not a really big problem it doesnt cost anithing to tighten it a bit more . you clip yourself in an unsecure part of the rope at 0:08 , if you where to fall the rope you are clipped in would just slip in the figure eight so clipping is completely useless here . you use a screw in carabiner for the "longe longue " , it is better to use a simple carabiner or a twist locking one like this one www.alpiniste.fr/petzl-smd-twist-lock-mousqueton-a-verrouillage/ the screw in carabiner can srew himself when opened and prevent the good closure of the carabiner wich is very dangerous because you lower the strenght of the carabiner by a factor 10 ( happened to me very often when i used carabiners like yours and i had a few close calls ) ( also static rope for the "longes" is not ideal ) you could have used another knot like a cabestan knot or a double chair knot with some webbing to attach the rope to the tree , to have it attached more securely and also to have the rope stay at the same height . also it is better when rigging underground to put belays every 20 - 40 meters of rapelling even if the rope doesnt make contact with the rock , so multiples cavers can ascend a pit at the same time and rope elasticity is limited (elasticity causes a less efficient ascention ) . So thats it , i hope i told you something that could be usefull , good caving and sorry for my bad english. some illustrations for what i said : ( cds06.wifeo.com/documents/Notion-dirreprochabililit-en-Splo..pdf and www.petzl.com/FR/fr/Sport/Techniques-pour-l-equipement-d-un-puits?ActivityName=Speleologie ) if you want to try some "light" rigging to go very deep witha reduced crew : (using 8mm rope and dyneema ) ( efs.ffspeleo.fr/images/les_cahiers_de_l_efs_n_13_la_dyneema.pdf and efs.ffspeleo.fr/images/les_cahiers_de_l_efs_n_09_les_techniques_sp_l_ologiques_l_g_res.pdf )

[@paulheimweh]

I would love to climb up there. Is there any Route established?

[@connor401]

None that I'm aware of.

[@shake7025]

Minecraft ravine

[@CarlosRuizHdH]

Amazing

[@aslamyusuf8958]

Please come to tamilnadu and explore Guna caves my kind request to you sir your are amazing sir

[@spiritualpath8888]

sweet

[@leechjim8023]

WATCH OUT! this pit has blood on its hands!!!

[@trptrungblogs]

🎉❤🎉❤

[@Pr0phetEdge]

Yall need to bolt and climb those walls

[@alexmaness4138]

I want to search for cool rocks down there but sadly I'll never get the chance.

[@copperridgegrow3940]

Remember back in 1984 when 2 Georgia Tech students were crushed like pancakes by a bolder the size of a school bus broke off the wall? Pepperidge Farms Remembers

[@MikeWilson-rm1fl]

yes, the plaque at the site clearly marks that.

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

Oh dear .no re-belay over that rub point.

[@connor401]

Not necessary with this type of rope.

[@bernardcharlesworth9860]

@@connor401 it's not polyprop with Cavlar core then.

[@connor401]

@@bernardcharlesworth9860 It is PMI Max Wear. "Considered the Gold Standard of caving ropes by recreational cavers and rescuers alike, PMI Pit Rope is one of the burliest and longest-lasting ropes available today. The Max-Wear sheath is designed to withstand the harshest of cave environments and makes ascending rope a breeze with its low elongation and compatibility with most, if not all, SRT climbing systems. This iconic rope stands the test of time, and will easily survive trip after trip being dragged through miles of cave passages and/or being rigged in raging waterfalls. While PMI Pit Rope is the original caver’s rope, don’t be fooled: it is also a perfect tool for anyone that needs an incredibly durable workhorse where abrasion, resistance and reliability are paramount."

[@TheBroknPezDispenser]

Whoa, that was pretty cool! Thanks for the view!

[@torleifmyklebust771]

What cind of descender is that? Why not use an auto locking descender?

[@connor401]

It is a 14 inch brake bar rack. A rack is pretty much the standard descender for vertical caving in the US.

[@djisydneyaustralia]

Nice spot

[@pierreostergren3241]

That personal anchor placering is super scary. Super dangerous

[@connor401]

How so?

[@apple11117]

@@connor401From how I see it, you placed your personal anchor on the rope above where the loop connects, meaning that if you weighted it, it would pull the rope up and out of the loop. Not sure I explained that well, but I do think it is a potentially dangerous way to anchor in.

[@connor401]

@@apple11117 The rope coming out of the cave is already wrapped around the tree three times before going to the figure 8 which is just there for backup. There is enough friction that it won't be going anywhere.

[@apple11117]

@@connor401 ok I thought it only went around the tree once which I wouldn't think would provide enough friction to keep it from sliding. Three wraps seems safe, especially since the personal anchor was just a backup. Stay safe.

[@TarikVann]

@@apple11117 the Wraps around the tree only stop the top side from moving, the bottom side is still able to slip up out of the loop as you said should a fall counteract the gravitational force of the rope in the system

[@Vesuvius081]

Cool video!

[@nathanwilson3185]

Beautiful spot, amazing views on the way down. 230 feet mean you used a 70 or 80m rope?

[@connor401]

300'

[@L0sGuys]

I’m a rope rescue specialist in the fire/rescue service on the west coast. We rappel using lots of different devices (rack, 8 plate, scarab, clutch) and the rack is honestly my least favorite and would be my last choice because it forces your hands so far away from your body. Why do you prefer it? Also, we (obviously) prioritize safety and redundancies over speed, so it surprises me to see no backup fall arrest like an ASAP or something similar. Very cool looking cave though; looks like you guys had a blast.

[@connor401]

Caving is kind of a niche use case and racks are the option that best fits the requirements and is pretty much considered the standard caving descender in the US. Here is a good video that explains it better than I can: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mWKXmIiarL99qtk

[@rymo2276]

I cave tag alot and I'm not a fan of a rack. But at distances 300ft+ it's almost a requirement especially if you are loaded with gear on your back. But for the sake of my ropes I try to use my rack as little as possible. Since the rack will flatten your rope out with continue use of just a rack.

[@jetztisfeierabend]

The only valhalla is in the blaucave in Germany. Biggest underground cavern in Germany

[@maxp918]

I'm used to a classic SRT where you need to be clipped to the rope at 2 points all the time - in this case having an ascender above the rappelling device, connected with the cow-tail of the harness. Is this another technique/configuration? What is the second (backup) place of attachment to the rope?

[@connor401]

For all the cavers I've been around, the 2 points of contact only applies to ascent and during changeovers, rebelays, knot crossing, etc. I use both hands while operating the rack. So I would imagine that having an ascending device above me during the entire descent would be overly cumbersome. We do however have our QAS attached until we have fully weighted the descender and done a short test rappel to check functionality.

[@jeffreyvontobel6440]

Looks like the guy below is on a fireman's belay.

[@connor401]

@@jeffreyvontobel6440 He is

[@martavanello984]

Porcamado' 😲