Car Chat: 1985 Buick Electra / Park Avenue Was a Big Car in a Small Car Package (also LeSabre)

[@jamescarrington5521]

My very first brand new car was a 1990 Buick Electra Park Avenue, and I loved it! Absolutely hands down THE best car I've ever owned. Wish I still had it, it was one of a kind because I added things to it that weren't widely available on American Luxury cars yet, like memory seats, seat massager, anti lock brakes, remote keyless entry, CD player, etc., it was the car of my dreams and it was special ordered. It was gunmetal gray with burgundy crushed velour seats....it turned heads all the time. Wish I had it back all the time!

[@dinoa9608]

I inherited from a family member in 1994, a 1987 Olds 98 Brougham (more or loess a Electra). Fully loaded. White ext., Grey Leather, twilight sentinal, moonroof, etc., and a unique very expensive option, an LCD digital dash. The color emitted by the dash was a blue color. The car was very comfy like sitting in a living room couch and quiet. However, mechanically it was very underwhelming. If I recall the car had 14' tires with spoke wire hub caps. The brakes were just not big enough to really stop the car. I could hardly lock them up. Lots of understeer into the corners. I eventually put on some 17" wheels from an STS Caddy. Handled better, but stopping no better. I changed the MAF sensor 2 or 3 times. An '87 but still had issues with the MAF. As mentioned in the video, my 3.8 liter motor was not smooth at lower RPMs. Revved OK. But overall it just seemed like GM had not really figured things out. Items either overengineered or over strengthened (Fisher Body, thick steel and I had no rust issues), or like the engine management system, it just did not seem to be all synced. You could tell they were still trying to figure out all this emissions and electronic fuel and ignition management stuff. New cars today seem dialed in. Overall I still miss the comfy ride and ice cold R12 AC. I kept it going for 155,000 miles. Still looked new when it was retired

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

My 1989 Pontiac Bonneville's 3800 V6 engine was an excellent one, but the water pump only lasted 50,000 miles and 3 years. It started out as my company car, so it had very few options to keep it under a certain price. I had the upgraded seats and wheels, but no cruise control, no power seats and not even a trip meter. It was a beautiful dark plum exterior with a beautiful gray interior. It got almost 30 mpg on the highway and was a great road trip car. I took it on a cross country adventure for three weeks with my dad, just the two of us. I used to drive it to Yosemite, go on a long day hike and drive it back home. A 400 mile round trip with plenty of gas left in the tank. I would fill it up at work on Friday and refill it on Monday. Thank you for bringing these awesome memories of the early 90's back to me!

[@dosgos]

I've driven these before and they are excellent cars. According to my grandfather, GM engineers considered that to be the best GM car at the time.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

@@dosgos They were correct!

[@ralphl7643]

I had an '88 Bonneville SE, and the 3 things I didn't like about it they fixed in the 89. The windshield tint came down too low, the air vents were balky to aim, and the glovebox was tiny.

[@mitchellbarnow1709]

@@ralphl7643 The plastic dashboard cracked near the left side of the dashboard. It was out of warranty, so I had to just live with it, because the replacement cost wasn’t worth it. Mine was only an LE, but I got the beautiful SE seats and honeycomb wheels.

[@micmac99]

These Buicks came out during my teenage/college years and were some of my absolute favorite cars of my lifetime, and to this day I would not mind owning an 80s or 90s Park Avenue or LeSabre.

[@TheBandit7613]

They were so comfy to drive long distance. Cars now are too stiff. I'm not racing, I'm driving home from work.

[@OldeHadleyVintage]

I finally bought my first Electra Park Avenue thanks to you Adam! You have ignited a fire in me to follow my dreams and passion and make a small hobby for myself. I love your videos and have learned so much from you! And thanks for the tip to call Total Care Trans! They are great folks! ❤️ Your car loving friend, Jeff

[@arnepianocanada]

In a world rocked by Ukraine, US politics, ongoing pandemic woes & more, your dignified voice and non-hyper, just-the-facts presenting - better researched than by some post hosts - is a truly calming influence. Thank you.

[@oscargeorge1]

I always loved that the wire wheel covers in the early photos were changed for production... and the slide in rear license plates are still awesome... My parents had an 1986 park avenue with a beautiful fawn colored velour interior... interesting fact was that their previous cars were an Acura legend, a few audi 5000s but my mom needed a softer suspended car and to this day, they will say that that park avenue was one of the best cars they ever owned...

[@v.p.b.2807]

The story about the side view mirror being broken off during a "hand shake" is quite funny. I worked as an automotive exterior designer and remember several occasions when non-design management attended presentations and yanked the door handles off of full scale models ;-)

[@MOJeepr]

My parents had one of the first 1986 LeSabre's. Predictably, the transmission started slipping, while still under warranty. It was replaced with a factory reman unit. At the time my Dad said he wanted a new trans and they said "trust us, you want the rebuilt one". They owned that car for probably 10 years after that with no additional transmission problems.

[@RareClassicCars]

Ha. They weren’t lying.

[@tomjones5079]

Same, but a rather rare, loaded Park Ave coupe, with a very unfortunate, but period popular quarter vinyl top. My dad leased (first and only time) and it went thru three transmissions before the lease was up.

[@joshuaecht]

@@tomjones5079 Oh you had a coupe with the vinyl top? Very handsome. The coupes without the vinyl top were even rarer (and only Buick-specific).

[@christianobrien4465]

The 1985 Buick Electra (and especially the T-type) is one of my favorite modern cars of all time

[@davidoliver6597]

Hi Adam: I Had a 85 Park Ave... love it... one of my favorite cars! I had the mass air flow issue... mine wouldn't go over 20 mph .. any more throttle and it would stall. Had the steering rack issue too. Still and all I loved that car. The trans was ok with mine. No issues. I also had a 92 Park ave after that, and didn't like it as much! The 85 seemed less claustrophobic. The 85 was more comfortable! The 92 had a lot more power. A friend of mine added a remote keyless entry on my 85 as it was not available from the factory. It worked really well. I miss that car!

[@davidellis7695]

Had a ’72 during the 80’s. Silver Green metallic with black vinyl top and interior. Black bucket seats and console with the dual arm shifter. Corvette rims and 350. Awesome car.

[@toronado455]

Most fantastic front-wheel-drive GM cars. They have never had this much interior space and good ergonomics since. Thanks for showing all these early proposals. I visited the General Motors building in NYC in 1985 and they had an early production 1985 Olds 98 Regency on display in the lobby.

[@klwthe3rd]

I agree. The interior room on these C and H bodies are vast compared to other GM cars. Even some Full-size rear wheel drive cars.

[@1911beauty]

These cars hold a very special place in my heart. You absolutely correct, the were very durable and the ride was so smooth. To me Buicks had very definite personalities. The sound of the motor and the slight grumble when shifting between gears. To me, even Cadillacs V8 motors of the same era we're not as smooth and quiet. This motor got so many things right

[@TVHouseHistorian]

I absolutely loved this generation of Park Avenue. I owned a 1988 Park Avenue, and it was one of the most comfortable cars I've ever owned. It was also the most RELIABLE car I've ever owned. I've had probably 20 cars over my lifetime, and the Buick Park Avenue stands as my all time favorite. It was a great freeway cruiser I could pack my college buddies and all our stuff in and take road trips. The car never had a single complaint. The rear self-leveling suspension came in handy when I had to load lots of people and things into it. The guy who bought it from me drove it until it had over 300k miles on it. He said it never gave him any problems either. Lots of fond memories of that car. Thank you for the upload!

[@B3burner]

I drove the exact color of 1986 Park Avenue that you showed in the beginning- the burgundy. I thought that the transverse mounted 3.8L V6 engine had plenty of power, and there was nothing malaise about it. I loved and miss that car.

[@klwthe3rd]

yes i agree. Those cars were plenty powerful and opulent.

[@my1vice]

I agree! I really loved that generation of P.A.

[@edwardluth7740]

It was a good engine and the Carter era was the malaise. But the damage had already been done in the 70s and the outsourcing as well and this was the beginning of the end of GM and the American car companies. But Buick did make good cars yet in the 80s and 90s with that beautiful new design of the Park Avenue. I’m a 70s guy however. I loved the Olds 98 Regency as I was a boy then and impressed by my folks choices of those bullet proof cars. Buick also and Chevy and Pontiac. Today saddens me. So I buy Lexus now.

[@barryscott8041]

I had two, an '85 and an '87. Both were smooth as silk in the powertrain...great cars

[@325xitgrocgetter]

I remember being a senior in high school in 1984 and seeing the ads and car magazine reviews for these. Dad was kicking tires and looked at the Buick Electra but decided to wait...and purchased a 86 Pontiac 6000 about a year and a half later. That fall, I was a freshman at our local junior college which had an automotive repair program. General Motors gave a preproduction 85 Olds 98 to the program. I was on the school newspaper and had a chance to write about the car and how it could never be driven on public roadways...that it would be disassembled and assembled by the students as they learned how to troubleshoot the new tech being used with these cars. The car was gray with a dove gray interior. I have no idea how long the car was used or if GM took it back. But I believe it was destined for the crusher once the school was done with it. I will say that I wish I would have enrolled in the auto tech program versus the general degree program...looked like a fun program to learn how to become an automotive tech.

[@joshuaecht]

Fascinating! It probably had no VIN #. The '83 Vette at Bowling Green's Corvette Museum I believe is like this; no VIN # either. They had 43 other C4 prototypes that were tested and destroyed (similar to your story about the C-body).

[@chriscallen6897]

This was really fascinating. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I remember thinking how tiny these looked when new but they have grown on me over the past 30 plus years. They definitely have more personality than anything new.

[@Primus54]

This design in both trims was very popular. Also during this timeframe, Buick was one of the very few American manufacturers that was getting decent scores from Consumer Reports for quality and reliability. Thanks, Adam! 👍👍👍 ~ John

[@alexrogers3913]

My grandfather had an '88 base Electra that he bought new and kept well into the 90s, which was unusual for him. He normally bought a new car every year or two. It took us on many family trips and made for some great memories, so much so, that I bought a clean, low mileage survivor '90 Electra Park Avenue last fall to relive some of those childhood memories. It's been my daily driver since the end of winter, and I can see why Grandpa liked his so much. It rivals the comfort of a full-frame RWD B body or Ford Panther platform car of the same era while far outpacing them in terms of speed, handling, and fuel economy. I've managed to put close to 11,000 miles on it in not quite a year of ownership, including a few months of winter storage, and while it hasn't quite been trouble free, it's never left me stranded, which I feel is pretty good for a nearly 35 year old car.

[@billc7667]

I had a 1990 Buick Electra ParkAvenue. It was a gold color with matching vinyl roof, and gold color velvet cloth interior. It had all possible options available. It ran extremely well, was very quiet, and got good gas mileage.

[@Sedan57Chevy]

The malaise era gets such hate for uninspired styling compared to earlier designs, but this video serves as proof that many of the same minds were behind both. The talent was always there, but market trends and maybe corporate decision makers were what drove a lot of the styling characteristics that aren't as fondly remembered as say a 70 GTO. Personally I think these Electra's are excellently styles, handsome cars that evolved the precious rwd styling. The packaging really was great. If only early reliability had been a bit better.

[@Polkhero]

I still have the huge GM rubber trunk mat from my '86 Park Avenue in my current '11 Lucerne daily driver.

[@rdm925]

Thanks for the video. As someone who loves cars and wanted to be a auto stylist/designer when young I love your channel. My wife and I rented a new 85 Electra while on a trip to San Francisco in the summer of 84 and drove it down the Pacific Coast Highway and on the Drive in Pebble Beach golf course. We felt right at home in the Electra. It was a really nice car.

[@IROCQUE]

My parents bought a used 1986 Oldsmobile which is the same platform and engine drivetrain as the Buick. What you described that plagued the early models was exactly what this car had. Right from the mass air flow sensor to the transmission plus the vibration at 1500 RPMs brought back some memories. It was a nice riding car and peppy for a front wheel drive 4 door. Later my dad bought a used 1990 Buick LeSabre Limited in 1994. Immediately I notice a huge difference on how it drove and including all the issues that were on the Oldsmobile where gone. Plus I liked the styling of the Buick better with that unique hood design. Thank you for sharing this video .

[@donaldhenley7150]

Parents had a 1990 Delta 88. I learned to drive in that car. it was a base model but was the best riding car I have ever driven, roomy and that 3800 would go.

[@ralphl7643]

I convinced my dad to get a T Type 4 door in '87 to replace a 77 Electra. I'd ridden in a bouncy base Olds 98, and I knew his driving style would make passengers ill. As it was, until he had it adjusted, the gas pedal made it difficult to take off without snapping necks. The roof paint failed and the headliner fell, but it gave good service until 2000. A seam in the passenger seat split at the dealer when he bought it.

[@pcno2832]

The only car with a bouncy ride that actually bothered me (though I never got motion sickness) was a 1978 Electra. For some reason, that thing seemed as if it were parked in a bounce castle. On the other extreme, it was a Volvo 740 wagon, a Dodge Neon and an S10 Blazer that had unbearably harsh rides. Everything else was somewhere in between.

[@blk7gxn]

Those 87 3.8's are VERY touchy indeed!! Have several and when my grandpa was alive, he owned a 1987 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight, you'd think you had whiplash when you were done riding with him, GEEZ

[@operator91210]

I remember as a kid in the early to mid 2000's there was a fellow friend of a friend who their parents had this extremely well kept '90 lesabre in light blue with a matching vinyl top. Never saw it dirty and was garage kept during the winter months. It stood out against the minivans/ wagons and SUV's in the student pickup line after school. I Wonder where it is now. Excellent video by the way!

[@jw77019]

My 1989 Park Ave was stolen 3 times. The third time they didn’t find it. They were targeted for theft because at that time the Buick, Olds and Pontiac had many interchangeable parts. Also the plastic enclosure of the steering column was easily broken off and the car stolen by being started with a screwdriver. It was a great car. It’s greatest strength was it would get 27 mpg easily on the highway. I frequently drove it in excess of the 85 mph speedometer.

[@turdferguson4124]

One other noteworthy feature of these cars was the deliberate effort to style the engine compartment and provide neat routings for hoses and wiring looms. This policy was also adopted on the 1985 Corvette, which had a very neat engine compartment. In terms of engine bay appearance, the 1985 Buick Electra 3.8L engine compartment was light years ahead of certainly its domestic contemporaries and still looks great today. I also remember GM advertising that they had taken these cars to, I think, Australia to compete in some kind of race across the outback. It was impressive at the time and suggested the cars and their powertrains were robust and reliable.

[@RareClassicCars]

You’re absolutely correct.

[@joshuaecht]

When did these race in the outback? These FWD C-bodies were competition-prepped?

[@fhwolthuis]

The Park Avenue is really a nice design. Should be in your collection 😀

[@TBullCajunbreadmaker]

These cars were really excellent vehicles for the targeted customers in the beginning. The design spilled over into a much wider customer base. I had an 87 Electra and later bought a 92 LeSabre. The 92 Buick was almost bulletproof to me. I didn't want to sell it but I did like other cars that I wish I would have kept. That 3800 with the transmission paired up to it felt like you had the power of a big V-8 of earlier models. I ran the fire out of that Buick and never had a problem at all with the car. Besides a new battery, tires, and normal maintenance it did not require any kind of opening up the engine. It was a brutally honest workhorse that rode and drove like a real up scale automobile and it had great looks to boot. I put 180Kon it and sold it the same day I put it out front with a for sale sign on it. I saw the car for years after that and don't remember when I stopped seeing it around any more.

[@christianobrien4465]

Absolutely INCREDIBLE CARS!!! I sold Buick /GMC back in 1984/5 and I can personally say that these Electras were completely modern and ahead of ALL competitors. They were low wide sleek smooth high tech and well executed. Beautiful unique cars of that period. Second to none (except the riviera)

[@LakeNipissing]

I love the "wall to wall" dashboard design used in cars like this and Pontiac 6000. (and B body cars like Caprice and Parisienne). Too bad just about everything is based on jellybeans today.

[@paulparoma]

I like that design, too. Nothing obstructs your view, nothing protrudes unnecessarily, nothing is bigger than it should be. Simple, elegant and functional. So much nicer than what we generally get today.

[@LakeNipissing]

@@paulparoma Many GM cars had this style of dashboard, as did Fords like 1990 Grand Marquis and even Toyota Avalon models (early 2000s?) with the full "wraparound" dashboard from door to door.

[@paulparoma]

@@LakeNipissing I know. I had a few. That's why I like it.

[@bugdrvr]

I like the dashboards on these cars too. The whole car is very nice looking IMO.

[@j-rod3718]

Except that almost all American cars if that era were cheaply made and had poor reliability

[@michaelchavis9205]

They are good and nice cars. I have a 1990 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight. Royale . sedan. 3.8 liter V6. It belonged to a friend of mine he bought it with only 31,000 miles. He passed away and it was gifted to me. It has 74,000 miles now. The car is nice and clean. I enjoy driving it. I have it on my KZbin profile.

[@TheWookie_USN]

Strictly design-wise, the ‘85-90 generation was MUCH better looking than the 91’s and beyond. Also, it’s hard to believe that the ‘85 Electra would be nearly 40 years old now. Just wow.

[@oldshowfanatic77]

My parents had a 1990 Buick LeSabre. We had that car for 17 years. The original transmission went out after 13 years. Then we got a rebuilt one put in and kept it another four years up until it got wrecked. Eventhough it got hit pretty hard on the passenger side, it was still running when my parents sold it. The new owner fixed it and kept driving it for a little while longer.

[@albertastorms]

I had the Oldsmobile version of this platform the 1987 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight Regency Brougham with the 3.8L 3800 Series V6 GM engine. Not to be confused with the Oldsmobile Touring Sedan which people wrongfully label as a ninety eight touring sedan! it is the same platform but a sport version. The Oldsmobile Ninety Eights and Delta Eighty Eights of this platform were great cars and long lasting! Mine got up to 300,000 + miles before the transmission went out!

[@marksalani2600]

Worked for a Buick dealership from 1986-2004. these models were some of my favorites. especially the Park Ave. the 440 trans was defiantly the problem spot. we couldn't get more than 30k out of them in the beginning. still great memories. :-) thanks for all your vids!

[@brianbalyeat3577]

Always a pleasure Adam. My cats and I just get on the couch with some cocoa and turn on your show and snug in for a great listen. Your like Art Linkletter

[@steveallan2339]

He has a gift for sure.

[@v.p.b.2807]

The back end on the early design models with the squarish taillights had a very "Oldsmobile" look to it...surprising and interesting.

[@donaldhenley7150]

Olds Delta 88 and 98 were the same car. Buick had the weird hood the opened from the windshield.

[@MarkStanley57]

I ordered one of these from the factory in Feb '85, Park Avenue trim in black with nearly every option. I liked the style when I first saw it. I only had it for a couple of years but had no issues with it whatsoever. Great on gas, very comfortable to drive, and lots of unique features. I was doing my best to coordinate the build date with the dealer so that I could visit the factory in Wentzville to watch it being built, but he messed up on the dates and it had already shipped by the time he got back to me. One of the most memorable cars I've owned.

[@lessbs]

I owned an 85 Park Avenue, and it was was my favorite car by far. Dark Charcoal Grey with half padded top. I had one air flow sensor replaced in 42,000 miles, but other than that nothing. Ihad it 9 years. In 1991 I bought a Park Avenue Ultra because my wife wanted it, and I hated the looks of it from the start. I felt that it was way to soft and bubbly. While I drove the 85 after she bought the new one, there was always one thing about the 85 that I did not like. I loved the look of the luggage rack on the trunk lid, bit I always hated having to was or polish around it. It was also a pain to keep the rack itself clean.

[@manofthehour6856]

Its weird thinking back to the new C-Bodies....I remember the Electra / Park Avenue being much more daring and interesting, oddly for a Buick, than the 98 or DeVilles. The frontward opening hood always reminded me of something European, and it seemed to be the most understated and elegant of the trio, particularly in the T-Type. It seems to me that Olds didn't do a Touring Sedan for a couple more years at least, and same wit Cadillac. But then complete corporate blandness seemed to overtake the division in the 1990s, oddly enough when GM was actually spending money on differentiating their products. Considering the centralized planning and cost-cutting at GM during the early 1980s, its amazing this car seemed unique to me.

[@sasz2107]

I remember several friends having these cars. I remember all of the issues you mentioned with the early models as well - the mass air flow sensor and the stalling, the THM440 transmission (1st and 4th gear would go out on these), and the steering rack issues. I remember being in auto shop classes then and we knew of these issues with these cars when they would come in. I remember finding out the base engine offered in 1985 was the 3.0L V6 with a carburetor - I could not believe that - on a nice brand new aerodynamic updated design, and it had a carburetor? Seemed crazy to me that it was offered that way. Even the N cars had a 3.0 liter V6 and it had MPFI - though that may have been 1986 when that engine was first offered. The even firing V6... we had that version of the 3.8 V6 in an 81 Buick Century. It was a smooth and quiet engine. My friend who bought a 1985 Park Avenue in 1996 as a used car liked the car very much - especially the glowing "Park Avenue" logo on the dash at night. The death of that car was a timing chain that broke, leading to incorrect priming of the oil pump afterwards, followed by low oil pressure and eventually a thrown rod. That was the only person I know whose car threw a rod driving down the interstate, complete with coolant splashing on the windshield. This was a young woman, and she told me afterward "that's when I knew something was wrong!" At the time, many people thought they had downsized these cars too much - but as you said they sold well anyway. However, the 1991 Park Avenue being a bit bigger seems to say that GM thought customers would like a larger vehicle. I remember these being very roomy, with plush interiors, and with a fairly soft ride. Our neighbor had an 88 Olds 98, which did not have the hood that went over the fenders and opened conventionally. The photos of the clay model of the LeSabre looks more like an Olds Delta 88 from the rear. I remember these cars were originally supposed to come out for the 1983 model year, but were delayed by 2 model years because the price of oil dropped off after about 1982, which promoted sales of the rear wheel drive C and B body cars for a little longer. They seemed to be modern enough yet classy enough (i.e. just enough chrome). Amazing how so many used to be around - yet they are now gone from the roads. That's just the passage of time. Over 30 years - amazing. I liked the license plate slide in feature. I remember at least three friends having LeSabres from this generation - though those were later (around 1990) models. They had them a long time and they seemed like good cars.

[@joshuaecht]

It's weird these upscale Cs/Hs had a 2-bbl. carb on them as base (although for one year). Not unlike the Caprice LG4s.... Heck, even your base '86 Taurus L had TBI (or in Ford terms, CFI) on its big 2.5-liter I-4!

[@stevebyrne4235]

I ran the night shift at a GM Heavy Truck shop; my boss asked for help with his '85 LeSabre no start. Once I figured out the hood, I was confronted with a distributor-less engine and no identifiable throttle body. Fortunately for me, it was simply out of fuel and I looked better than I deserved. Signed up for training immediately.

[@kevinjokipii4260]

6:43 the point about styling elements debuting in upper models and then being adopted by more affordable models would have been well heeded between the Camaro and the C7 Corvette. If the Vette had the boomerang taillamps first before the Camaro I suspect there would have been less grief over the end of the Vette's four circles tail theme.

[@josephbzezinski6847]

My dad leased a 1985 Buick Park Avenue through his work when the car first came out. The car was beautiful and rode like a dream when it was running. The front wheel drive was also great in the snow. He and my mom were stopped many times when driving it just to be asked what kind of car it was. Unfortunately the car was a complete lemon. Everything went wrong from the windshield wipers stopping in a rain storm to the car stalling out at the entrance to the Midtown Tunnel when my family was taking a trip to the Poconos. Eventually my dad had to let it go under the lemon law and get a 1986 Lincoln Town Car instead.

[@JohnnyAloha69]

Great video, these era GM cars were always a love and hate thing with me back then. Teething problems aside they did establish the mold for most cars up to today. The styling was handsome as could be given the box on a box limitations that’s stylists were forced to deal with. Interesting how Buick and olds reversed position in the second half of the 80’s; through the 70’s it was olds that was the division to watch (having supplanted Pontiac as the hip division in the 60’s) with the best looking cars. However somehow the olds look just didn’t work on these new cube on cube bodies. Also interesting is how the 85 2nd round downsize was accepted by the public on the “regular” big cars but was the death knell of the “specialty” editions (riv, toro, eldo). I guess those buyers just couldn’t accept the runty proportions that were anathema to their raison d’être. My personal recollection of these 80’s GM sideways engined cube cars was mixed (I was 20 when they came out). I hated the small size and front drive torque steer but liked the roomy packaging. Also those V6 engines compared very well to the anemic 5.0 range (305-307) of engines in early 80’s full sized cars. The lower weight and higher state of tune made the 3.8 powered front driver a more responsive and quick car than their immediate predecessors. Ironically these initial models were better balanced than the cars that followed in the 90’s. While later versions had vastly improved reliability and much more power (ex: 240 horse supercharged 3800’s in the SSEi Bonneville) GM actually lost ground by failing to address things like torque steer and ever more substandard (measured by contemporary comparison) braking and suspension.

[@stephendavidbailey2743]

I own a 1995 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight. Wonderful car; looks, drives, rides and sounds much like traditional big cars. But it has such modern features as rack and pinion steering, 4-wheel independent suspension and brakes, crush zones and air bags, well developed electronic controls for engine and transmission. 1995 was the first year for 3800 Series II; 205 hp and 230 ft.lbs. torque. It has 129,000 miles and just seems to run better and better. Simply terrific car. Thank you for this comprehensive review of the early H-platform. Most informative and enjoyable.

[@stephendavidbailey2743]

The 'wood' trim on this car was painted metal, like many late 40's cars.

[@fourdoorglory]

Very interesting. Worked at the GM Proving Ground in the mid 80’s as a test driver where we put a lot of durability test miles on the C-cars. We enjoyed driving them because they were a comfortable place to spend an 8 hour shift. You hit it dead on with their weaknesses-routinely had breakdowns on the transmission test hill and the city course (steering rack) however we finally got the cars sorted. Most guys liked the DeVille because of its V8 but nothing beats that smooth 3800-less torque steer too.

[@RareClassicCars]

Fascinating. Love to learn more about your time at GM. Shoot me an email.

[@klwthe3rd]

That's so awesome that you were a test driver for GM at that time. Your comment was so informational.

[@dosgos]

Interesting comment about the smooth 3800 given the balance shaft comments in the video.

[@fourdoorglory]

@@dosgos Referring to the 1988 and later design 3800…not the 3.8 Litre. 😀

[@joshuaecht]

@@fourdoorglory What did you think of the 2-door designs? I also liked how the '85s were called the Electra 300/380/430, but they should have kept that going like older years (Electra 225).

[@jamesdesmidt447]

This era of GM cars had many paint issues. My brothers Buick paint started peeling after less then a year of driving. The dealer said this was a common issue.

[@jamesmoran8294]

I have an 88 Electra, very interesting to learn the design processes and prototypes

[@eddstarr2185]

I'll never forget dragging a couple of my best friends to the local Buick dealer in November 1984 to see the new front wheel drive Buick Electra. That trick reverse opening hood was a real crowd pleaser, giving the Electra a more "high concept" feel especially compared to the Oldsmobile Ninety Eight. Personally, I was so impressed by the dramatic reduction in size and weight of this car that I joked it should have been named the "Electra-Lite". I've since learned to keep my jokes to myself.

[@andregonsalvez9244]

Great information and video . I really like these front wheel drive downsizing cars from the mid 80s. They sold fairly well and were fairly reliable .

[@klwthe3rd]

They sold VERY well for GM's. Some of their most profitable cars of any era.

[@gregcrabb3497]

My favorite body style across all the GM lines!

[@shawnmcculley2995]

Wouldn't buy one before 1988. They drastically improved the 3800 engine in 1988. They also improved the suspension a little bit.

[@klwthe3rd]

They didn't improve the 3800 in 1988, they introduced it. 1988 was the first year for the improved 3.8 liter which GM called, the 3800.

[@life_of_riley88]

Wouldn't buy one at all. These cars are butt fugly.

[@joseorozco6467]

@@klwthe3rd does that mean that a 1985 is a good one as well because i was offered one with like 70k miles original but I'm in between yes and no thanks in advance

[@klwthe3rd]

@@joseorozco6467 i would avoid 1985 & 1986 model years as they had alot of issues electronically and mechanically. The transmissions were notoriously bad in those first 2 years. If you must buy a 1985 or 1986, drive it easy. Do not drive it hard or the transmission will fail on you.

[@anonlarson2875]

My parents had a 1990 Buick LeSabre Limited. That thing was bulletproof!

[@jimellison6157]

My sister had an 87 LeSabre in the mid 90’s. I got to drive it a couple of times. It was a pretty nice driving car.

[@christopherdouglas8471]

One of my all time favourite cars. In 1984, I had worked for General Motors in Oshawa for almost 6 years. I clearly remember when the management got these cars, and the Oldsmobile 98, as assigned vehicles. I always tried to borrow one when I was making the trip from Oshawa to the Tech Centre in Michigan to attend meetings. My direct boss had a blue Parkie with the ubiquitous GM wire wheel covers! We used to fill up at a local Petro Canada station, and, in the early days, I always had to get out to open the reverse opening hood for them (It actually was an extremely good design). Thanks for the story Adam. PS - We (GM Canada Product Public Relations) had Bill Porter as a guest speaker when we hosted the Canadian Automotive Journalists at the Detroit Auto Show. I think it was 1992. Another bit of trivia- Bill, now long retired, still owns a grey ‘85 Electra T-Type.

[@scottking4931]

Adam, Thanks for sharing the info on theses 80’ Buicks.I had a 1985 Electra T-Type 2 door coupe in charcoaled gray. Although I find the 80’s cars to be lesser in quality, my 85 Electra was an amazing car. I got 225k miles and the car was all original except for the steering rack(of course). The trans was starting to slip so I sold it. I really liked the clamshell hood design. Excellent riding car and handsome…3.8 liter was excellent. One of the cars I miss.

[@OnkelPHMagee]

The '85 Electra T-type coupe ought to qualify you for some kind of "unicorn" award for model obscurity. I LOVE the lesser-known stuff.

[@klwthe3rd]

The T-Types of that era were uber rare!!! You should have kept it cause today you just don't see any of them even here on KZbin!

[@klwthe3rd]

@@OnkelPHMagee I agree. Any T-type Electra of any year is a unicorn!

[@scottking4931]

Yes, the Electra t-type sedan was rare and the coupe was the unicorn. I sold it in 1995…with over 200k it looked great with no rust. One of the most reliable cars I have ever owned. I should have just kept it in the garage and restored it.

[@dosgos]

@@scottking4931 Two mistakes. Should have kept it and should be still daily driving it!

[@DerrickOil]

We convinced my Grandmother to park her 1970 Electra 225 and buy a new 1987 Electra. As a prepubescent child I remember it well put together and reliable. My Grandmother struggled mightily with the multi functional turn signal stalk for the high beams. In hindsight, maybe we should have retrofitted the floor dimmer. 🤷‍♂️

[@markbehr88]

Thanks Adam. I enjoy these. I rented a brand new 1986 Electra back in the day and drove from LA to Chicago and back. I found it a really good car. A nice ride and good lateral control, plenty of room. The dash was a bit of a weak point with the strip speedo imo. I liked the very vertical roofline. A bit like an American Volvo 740!

[@dave1956]

My parents had a 1985 Electra 380 and what a wonderful car it was. A heck of a lot better car than their 1981 LeSabre with a carbureted V6 that couldn’t get out of it’s own way.

[@Vegaswill714]

Very interesting video, found out a lot of things about the GM "C" body I never knew. I never owned one, but I remember people who did loved them. They were comfortable and luxurious for the era. Thanks for the interesting video!

[@barnabyjones6995]

My Dad had an 88 Riviera. He sold it too a friend of mine in the late 90's with 220,000 miles on it. The original touchscreen on the dash that controlled virtually everything was a bit gimmicky but worked better than any smartphone I have had so far.

[@dlotboy]

Had a 90 park ave ultra. Loved the car. But the paint was awful and the paint on bumpers came off too. Despite what was a gorgeous and beautiful car it looked terrible. The interior and ride were without peer. Even nicer than a comparable Cadillac at the time. I thought the next generation was too bulbous. This one clean, taut and elegant. I generally prefer metal roof over vinyl but my ultra had a long padded top that made the whole car look very uptown.

[@bobjohnson205]

I own the Volvo version - style-wise - of this vehicle. Volvo began its design and development in February '75 - about four years before GM - and introduced the car in February '82. Classy, timeless styling on these vehicles. I still see the occasional Buick or Oldsmobile version around my town and they still look great.

[@thomas_2285]

I always thought these were some of the most attractive cars of the 80's. I never knew the hood opened up like a reverse clamshell and I also didn't know the seats were so poofy lol. My parents had an Oldsmobile 98 around this same time period and my kid brain seriously thought it had to be the most luxurious car in the world, but I digress

[@johnnyedify]

I remember these cars well. My brother bought many of these as used cars, 1985 to 1988 including Olds versions. The best ones had the 3800 engine.

[@klwthe3rd]

My father customed order my mother's 1988 Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale Brougham sedan from the factory and to this date is the nicest car we've ever owned. My father ordered soo many options on my mother's car that it basically costs more than a base level 98 Regency. The car was stunning and we got compliments everywhere we drove it. The introduction of the 3800 motor was what sealed the deal as that motor upon a test drive was so smooth and powerful for that time period. It would get 30 mpg + on the highway easily for a full-size car. That was incredible. And yes, the interior was so nicely trimmed and roomy. I miss that car so much and will probably never find one like my mother's again having over $3,000 worth of options. Great video.

[@duaneknap3334]

I bought '89 Oldss 88 in '95 and learned that if you could keep the speed mostly above 75 you could get 35 mpg. I could count on 31 - 32 mpg on any road trip. Mine was a Brougham and had all of the power equipment, but nothing else. It was also battleship gray in color which I hated. It is still the best car I've ever owned.

[@jeffreysproul9110]

Even though I did drive one of these and at the time I thought they were a big let down I now appreciate them and they weren't as bad as I once thought. I do like the last of the W bodies Impala and Lacrosse and bought a low mileage 2012 Buick Lacrosse Premium E-Assist from a neighbor and really love it. Adam if you could do a video on the last of the W bodies. GM at the end of the W body had gotten them well sorted out and overall they were a great riding car and great car. My Lacrosse is one of the smoothest riding cars I have ever owned. I have had many great riding and handling cars and the Lacrosse is at the top.

[@marcodarko6941]

Very interesting, I enjoyed every minute of your presentation. My Grandfather was a Park Avenue man and if I remember correctly he owned four of them through the mid 80's into the 90's. There was a White one, burgundy, black and another burgundy. Three Park Avenues met their demise due to his love of inattentive "sight seeing" as he drove along the rural roads where he lived. He was getting older into his 80's when that started to happen. And if he wasn't between wrecking one then one would be in the shop for the transmission. He had a real bad habit of backing up and before the car would come to a complete stop he would drop it into drive. As a kid I always liked them, they are a good looking car. I remember a very comfortablen cushy ride with plenty of room for Grandma and three to four grandkids. Good amount of power you could feel it sailing along. I would drive one today if I could. That was a nice trip down memory lane Adam.. thank you so much.

[@ampex352]

Great history info on these Buicks! I had an 1987 2dr Olds Cutlass Cierra SL with 3.8 engine and FE3 and a 1990 2dr Buick LeSabre Sport version 3800 engine with 2.9 final drive ratio and 215 tires. Best riding car I’ve owned! Both the Olds and the Buick were Luxury versions of the International series Olds and the T type Buick. Both were custom orders and I Never saw the same car on the road! Wish I still had the Buick! Thanks

[@melvinharris7859]

I'd love to see a video on the 91 Park Avenue. I have a 95 myself and I love it.

[@paddle_shift]

The 70 1/2; Firebird & Trans Am were drop dead beautiful cars. One of my favorite ever.

[@califdad4]

I drove a couple 85 Electra/ Park Ave's and very nice car's but you rarely want the first year of any car and by 87 they were a very good car. Lots of issues with the 85&86s

[@kingrex1931]

Would you happen to have any pictures of what the 1959 models would have looked like had GM nt went with the forward look and had them based on 1958 models? It would make an interesting video.

[@mark_osborne]

Spot-On with your analysis, i worked on many of them, your criticism of the trans, MAF is exactly correct

[@neilschipper3741]

We had purchased a 89 3800 Park Avenue. It had quite a few issues. We had the silver one, this one have an issue with paint. Didn't have a car a year and Buick that a recall and had the car repainted. Great information in history thanks again for sharing.

[@brianbayer9746]

Great video, miss my 89 Park, 585,000 Km and running good but got rear ended, that was the end, had 2 92-94 Ultras & they were great too but I still miss the original.

[@discerningmind]

That's Adam, good info here as always. These were nice cars. I particularly liked the Oldsmobile version. It's too bad that all the transmissions were weak. Other than that, the 3800-engine having crank bearing oil holes that were too small. They were OK if the oil was changed regularly from day-one, otherwise they'd clog up and then just one time having to floor the pedal and it was good-bye engine.

[@Humandriver5280]

GM didn't get rid of the transmission bugs until about 89.

[@MrJayrock620]

I owned one of these and I still miss those seats!!! My current couch comes close, but still comes in 2nd. Mine was loaded like a Cadillac with leather, digital gauges, sunroof, alloys and self leveling suspension. If I could find another one of these in half decent shape with the same options it would already be in my driveway.

[@raymondhaley6185]

Saw a prototype that looked exactly like this one in 1984, it also had leather interior, just like what han said in fast and furious 5 , I think I'm in love 💕.

[@jefferysmith3930]

Always loved the styling of these. Nice to ride in too. My father-in-law had a beige 87 back around 1991. As an aside, around 1987 John Lithgow drove one of these in a movie with ...I think Jonathan Silverman . He was a traveling salesman and all the salesman drove these. The car becomes a minor character throughout the movie: shown in a shop being serviced with that cool clamshell hood with the Buick logo embossed in the hood pad, in the parking lot at the head office that was a sea of shiny Elektra’s and his filthy dirty car. As he was being pushed out of a job by his younger protégée his last act was turning in his company Buick by driving it straight into the lobby.

[@jefferysmith3930]

1989, Traveling Man

[@95blahblahhaha]

Really enjoy these types of videos you do. I know it's not a very interesting car or anything but a video on the Chevy Corsica would be cool, it was kind of different than other Chevy models at the time and GM took pretty serious. Same with the W-Bodies

[@WhittyPics]

Those mid 90s full size Buicks were bulletproof.

[@michaelconnolly2500]

The Buick Park Avenue and Oldsmobile 98 front wheel drive came out in 1985. The rest debeaued in 1986. I stand corrected.

[@mikeatv]

i had a 86 delta 88….3 transmissions it went through and a set of coil packs other than that it was actually nice

[@jjackson4829]

Wow, those 1979 prototype photos are amazing! When did actual production of the new FWD C bodies begin? I know that sales began in April 1984, but was curious when they actually started rolling off the production line. It would be fascinating to see a documentary on the evolution of the C-body design & development from the late 70s to when production began...

[@kennethreiver985]

We have a 1990 LeSabre and it's a wonderful car . Thanks for the informative video . You should do a video on Buick City . I think it was the oldest GM plant at it's time of closing .

[@kimdolan2474]

My dad was a Buick man and owned many LeSabres over the years. His last car was a 90 Park Avenue which I owned for awhile after his passing. It was a great car. Fast forward to 2020 and my 16 year old son's first car is a really clean, you guessed 90 Park Avenue which was owned by the same owner for 29 years. It's been running well since last year and he much prefers driving it over our newer cars.

[@325xitgrocgetter]

One question...this car was an early 85 introduction in the spring of 84...was it scheduled for a fall of 83 debut but pushed back due to teething issues...so GM kept the big rear drivers around for another model and delayed the front drive versions? I thought I read that somewhere.

[@RareClassicCars]

Yes. Mainly due to transmission issues.

[@christopherswayzee9834]

That makes sense. I have a 1984 Buick Product Manual and the 1984 Buick Electra (full-size RWD coupe/sedan) does not appear in it. All other 84 Buicks are there, including the Electra Estate Wagon. If I remember correctly, there are some memos from Buick in there about when the RWD Electra can no longer be ordered and when the FWD Electra is available to begin ordering. I'd have to check it to be sure.

[@klwthe3rd]

@@christopherswayzee9834 Yes, i would love to see that information about ordering. Awesome comment.

[@christopherswayzee9834]

@@klwthe3rd There's a memo date 1/19/84 from Buick regarding Employee Car Sales Contracts stating that the final date that Buick will accept orders for the 1984 rear wheel drive Electra is January 30, 1984. That memo also states Buick are now accepting employee applications for the new model "in accordance with the General Motors Employee New Car Purchase Program".

[@okstateben]

You mention the 1991 redesign is the subject of another video.....where is that video? Please let me know! I loved this video since my first car was a 1985 Park Avenue. This video takes me back to the good ole days in High School with my Buick. It never went more than 4-5 months without some problem. Thanks for the great video!

[@JeffKing310]

Love the development photos and diagrams! Great video as always. I quite enjoy this series. Thanks!

[@aaronwilliams6989]

I remember just like yesterday when those cars came out.

[@ppeters480]

These are my favorite buicks, still want to find a nice 86 Park avenue. My father worked at GM back in 85 we got a tour of the Orion plant where they were building these new C bodies, they were so cool to see driving all shiny off the assembly line!

[@fourdoorglory]

I took that same tour in ‘83 just after the plant opened. 😀 Remember at the end of the tour that each visitor got a refrigerator magnet shaped in the silhouette of a Cadillac DeVille…said something like Orion C-Car Assembly.

[@ppeters480]

@@fourdoorglory , Yes I do remember getting something at the end of the tour with a GM Orion logo on it. That makes sense it was a Deville as those were assembled there as well with the OLDS C body. Chevy didn't have a C body and the Bonneville was a G body back then. ALL of them looked rather modernistic when new back then. I tried to talk my dad into tagging a Park Avenue back then but he only would go for a Pontiac level in 88 with a new Bonneville, at least it did have the 3800 in it !

[@MultiMusicbuff]

Ironically they still sold the full size RWD LeSabre/Electra in 1985 alongside its FWD offerings and continued to offer the LeSabre/Electra full size station wagons until at least 1989 (I have Buick brochures when a local dealer closed a few years ago but only until 1989).

[@Dr_Reason]

The older 3.8 was not bad for reliability but the head and block were still very true to the original Buick V6. This led to the offset rods and the poor breathing at high rpm from a very old cylinder head design. It had good torque and somewhat has the powerband more like a diesel.

[@ramoncarter6585]

I grew up on GM, Buick was my favorite brand besides loved all of them Oldsmobile was up there with Buick.