Rational Proof for Allah's Existence | The Evidence Course | Session 2 / Part 3

[@SubboorAhmadAbbasi]

Superb work bros mashallah

[@prosperitydealer8988]

Subboor watched the discussion with daniel dumbrill loved that you ate that islamophobe for breakfast💪💪

[@ThoughtAdventurePodcast]

Eid Mubarak, may Allah increase you!

[@Someone-ct2ck]

Sabuur, waiting your conversation with Milihan.

[@aytackasmoglu9379]

@@prosperitydealer8988 Does the discussion take place? As far as I'm concerned Subboor was challenging him.

[@prosperitydealer8988]

@@aytackasmoglu9379 you can check subboors channel i think it was about 1 or 2 weeks ago it was an informal one so you'll have to understand the background of the points that were raised to make sense of the stream. Theres also 3 to 4 short vids that were uploaded after the stream

[@mister1257]

Can you try and get cosmic skeptic onto the channel for a discussion/debate?

[@nader9490]

I see Apostate prophet's fans are getting so triggered in the comments, i couldn't be more happier than knowing that you're so triggered and more importantly you can't make your own arguments for your position.

[@HussainFahmy]

*_Reality will always remain an enigma to some people._*

[@Timeren2010]

The wise would conclude, based on our current knowledge, that the origins and nature of our reality is in fact an enigma.

[@jasjas3642]

Mashallah Sharif im learning so much from you. I am a nobody in philosophy compared to you and I'm learning alot. thanks

[@echoe4806]

Even if you are a nobody you can still use logic and reason.Muslims actually don’t need that.All you need is keep everyone in fear, don’t let anyone question anything, use violence if anyone is offending Quran and your religion will last forever! Guarantee!

[@jasjas3642]

@@echoe4806 I don't know what to say other than lol. Apparently you have no clue about the rich intellectual heritage of philosophers and Muslim thinkers we have in our Ummah.

[@echoe4806]

@@jasjas3642 Do I need really your rich intellectual thinkers and philosophers to observe the world around me? To treat people around me the way I want to be treated? To live my life in peace in harmony not in fear and oppression.To think freely and not to be spiritually enslaved? Do I really need a book to teach me that? Or a master?

[@tahirsalkic3306]

@@echoe4806 Whether you acept it or not, you are a slave of god. Did you create yourself? Or did you come from absolutly nothing? Obviously not. You can't even make the food you need to sustain yourself. You are dependant on god, while he is self-sufficient. Be grateful to your lord. He is the perfectly merciful, the perfectly just.

[@silkydude]

@@echoe4806 what are these wonderful values you stated based on? Why treat everyone like how you want to be treated? Why can't I just do as I please and maximize my pleasure while minimizing pain? What gives you the authority to tell me what is virtuous?

[@Fahad-gf1wx]

Atheists are so triggered in the comments 🤣

[@echoe4806]

Of course we are…if I have to apply the necessary being theoretically I have to believe in Santa Clause too! It cannot apply to just God! Right?

[@Fahad-gf1wx]

@@echoe4806 u need to think about the properties of this necessary being. It cannot be anything in the created world ie it cannot be Santa because it is created but it's pointless arguing with a angry internet atheist,

[@echoe4806]

@@Fahad-gf1wx Nobody is angry here.Why would I? We are debating something …that is the problem with the whole theory of necessary being…the fact that you only want to use that towards something that you like or you prefer it is irrational.Why you are calling always the atheists angry.I just want to find the truth….you claim that you know the truth but you fail to demonstrate it….This concept that anyone questioning your God or your religion must be silenced shows how “ peaceful “ your religion is.All around KZbin any opinion of anyone having different views or opinions is called: dumb, ignorant, no brain, stupid…there are terms like…we destroyed the atheist with arguments etc. ..this type of language and behaviour show insecurity, lack of confidence, fear.

[@DarkCrusade]

@@echoe4806 How is Santa necessary? Care to elaborate?

[@echoe4806]

@@DarkCrusade Exactly how is god a necessary being.

[@yellowpetelol6417]

Why is God the way he is rather than another way? For example, why is he merciful rather than vindictive? Why does he choose to create, rather than choose not to? You bring up some interesting questions, but one can always keep asking "why" - this doesn't distinguish atheistic from theistic world views. They equally bottom out at "That's just the way it is" somewhere.

[@billionburns]

Simple answer. God is the ultimative all knowing and all powerful being. He is doing it because he wills it. God created us to worship him alone. He will reward those who are doing so and will punish those who reject him. Allah is adressing this question in the 21 Sura of the Qur'an Chapter (21) Sūrat l-Anbiyāa (The Prophets) *_He is not questioned about what He does, but they will be questioned._* The relevant question should be is Islam true.

[@dorarie3167]

@@billionburns Why would a god need us to worship it if it has no ego and is not human? And why would it punish horribly those who don’t worship it, especially after humans use the reasoning power this god apparently gave them to conclude from evidence that the god does not or may not exist, or is not worthy of worship? And why not eat pork? Why a 14-billion-year-old universe just to get a minuscule species on a mote of dust to believe in it? Or to discriminate against LGBTQ people? Many questions to answer.

[@yellowpetelol6417]

@@billionburns I understand that he willed for creation, but the question is why did he? Is there no explanation for why God wills one thing over another? Or for why he has a particular attribute over another? The issue is that following the logic presented in the video, since those facts could have been different than what they are, they require an explanation outside of themselves.

[@billionburns]

@@dorarie3167 Why do you think he is in need of us for worshipping him? Worship has a completely different function in Islam, therefore this argument is not valid at least from the islamic perspective. If you want to know what is the function of worshipping God oin Islam you can ask further questions. I have a simple question for you, would all these questions matter for you if you would know for certain that God exists and you would face the greatest punishment if you disobey him and the greatest reward if you obey him? At the end God wants for all of his creation only the best in this world and the hereafter, he equipped us with reason, revelation and the natural inclination to do good but he also gave us the free will. I could give you a lot of unbiased scientific reference why for example is eating pork is harmful for your health, why LGBTQ is harmful for the health and the society etc. but at the end it was his decision for us because he is the all knowing and we are ignorant.

[@billionburns]

@@yellowpetelol6417 From my perspective the explanation that God created us to worship him is sufficient. He is the absolute being I don't know why do you have problems with the attributes? You're more interested in the essence of God then in the mere fact if God exists, why is this? If God exists would you submit or would you question him?

[@jandewakker1748]

Hello, I find the way you explain the metaphysics very clear, but I don't see how it relates to Allah, unless you mean with Allah the First/Necessary Being instead of the God of the Quran. I know both (can) refer to the same thing, but the way you present it makes it true for YHWH and God of the Christians as well, for He neither slumbers nor sleeps(see Psalm 121), or do I misunderstand? When I read the title, I expected an explanation of the kind "Why Allah is true, but YHWH not" or "Why is it irrational to be a Jew/Christian". Interesting stuff nonetheless. Thank you, and may God bless you.

[@afsalazeez2916]

Genesis 2:2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he "rested" on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. Despite sending gifts of appeasement, Jacob was afraid for his life and family. He prayed to God for help and sent his family and possessions on ahead of him to protect them. Left alone in his camp, "God came and wrestled with Jacob" until daybreak (Genesis 32:24-29). Brother how can this be attributed to a necessary existence, resting after creation, came to Earth and fighting with a servent of God.. I said this not to hurt your belief but for a better understanding...

[@rafique-fy2iw]

subhanallah.. what an excellent articulation..

[@user-pt6ug5ug3m]

As usual, just more therefore, leading to more therefore. No concrete answers or substantial theory, just endless speculation.

[@sahb8091]

My question is why the Prophet (pbuh) didn’t come with this approach.

[@fatezero1919]

Because the revelation is more clear than every philosophical argument...

[@Oneummahgeneration]

The first vid in this section addresses the quranic approach to proof for God. And he demonstrated that these arguments follow the similar pattern to the ones in the quran.

[@bekzod3322]

Well he was busy teaching on how to clean one's butt with STONES after toilet "Your companion (meaning, the Prophet(ﷺ)) even teaches you how to go to the toilet!" He said: "Yes, he forbade us from facing the Qiblah when defecating or urinating, or cleaning ourselves with out right hands, or to use less than three stones." Book 1, Hadith 41 Sahih (Darussalam)

[@bekzod3322]

@Muzaffar Zaky How dare you? Quran 33:21 There has certainly been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often. And Quran from 68:2 till 68:4 By the grace of your Lord, you ˹O Prophet˺ are not insane. You will certainly have a never-ending reward. *And you are truly ˹a man˺ of outstanding character.* according to these verses he was a role model for mankind and who is to decide what should be blind or not? If you close your eyes to something aren't you ignoring Allah's message? Cherry picking what you like and don't, completely destroys the need for religion IMHO because you are deciding on the moral stuff yourself, yep you may be inspired by something from the teachings, but....

[@SawarimHaqq]

Can you invite Majesty of Reason?

[@neildunford241]

How many Allahs?

[@ri_sha]

Your question is self refuting because if you would know basic Arabic you would know the meaning: *Allah* , Arabic Allāh (“God”), *_the one and only God in Islam._* www.britannica.com/topic/Allah Btw. even christian Arabs are reffering to God as Allah. So how do you understand the term *one and only God* ?

[@neildunford241]

@@ri_sha You've missed the point. Read the title of this video, then realise what I was asking.

[@ri_sha]

@@neildunford241 😂 valid point brother.

[@neildunford241]

@@ri_sha Lol, the idea that there's more than one god, and by the way, they're ALL called Allah... That could get confusing! ; ) Insh'allahs!

[@SharpenSoul]

Great explanation; Jazaka Allaho khayran

[@shadeeduliqaab]

Jazak Allahu khayran❤

[@user-pt6ug5ug3m]

The explanation is. We don't know and nor do you. God is an assumption. Your god theory needs more work to be accepted.

[@Oneummahgeneration]

You have a number of possible answers. 1. Brute contingency 2. Infinite regress 3. Cyclical dependency of contingent things 4. A necessary being. 1. Brute contingency is special pleading and violates rational and scientific methodology which relies on the principle of sufficient reason for contingent things. 2. An infinite regress is a logical impossibility as an endless series would have to end. Secondly even if granting an infinite regress of contingent things this doesn’t solve the problem as the total sum of contingent things requires an explanation anyways. 3. Cyclical dependency of contingent things falls into an infinite regress. Secondly it results in nothing existing as each is waiting for the prior form and thirdly again the total sum of contingent things even in a cycle still requires an explanation. 4. Therefore this leads to only one logical explanation which is the necessity of a necessary being.

[@user-pt6ug5ug3m]

@@Oneummahgeneration I agree, but that doesn't then mean therefore god. Let alone, therefore my god.

[@Fareeh.]

@@user-pt6ug5ug3m I think in the next episodes they will mention why this necessary being is God. For eg if this being is independent with no causes to stimulate it to do action then how can it do an action and if it did then it indicates it has the purest form of free will.

[@user-pt6ug5ug3m]

@@Fareeh. I wait with interest in thier explaination of god. I hope they can also answer why this lone entity feels the need to create us and then command worship via threats.

[@Fareeh.]

@@user-pt6ug5ug3m what is the problem if God wants you to worship him. Who are you little insignificant creature you are nothing but tiny creature living in speck of dust in universe and yet you have audacity to question the creator of universe. Firstly God will not punish every person who doesn't worship him. He will only punish people to whom his existence and message has made clear to be truth but still rejected the message and creator just for his desires or arrogance etc. This are the people who will be punished for eternity because if they were to live an eternity on earth they will live as a disbeliever so they will be punished and the sin they committed is the greatest sin any human can commit which is to disbelieve and reject God and his message. Look if there was a person who is good to every single stranger and close ones but doesn't care about his mother and leaves her phone calls and messages unattended and rejected her as though she never existed as his mother even though she has done many favours and if she didn't this person will own nothing and will be left naked on street and starved to death so will you say this person is good similarly God has many favors far greater than any humans could do. Every morsel you take in and every zip your drink and every second you breath along with millions of things happening inside your body which sustains you is all because of one being which is God so rejecting him is most grevious sin so you will be punished with the worst. And as for the people who don't know the truth they will be tested after they die in a different place and will be judged for their actions to paradise or the fire. And as for the sinful people who atleast minimum has an atom's worth of acceptance of God and his message will be punished for the sins they committed then they will be admitted to paradise for eternity.

[@Ryba125]

Very uneducated fallacy of the undistributed middle. Some atheist push for a necessary universal wave function.

[@hamisuhadejia3570]

Great

[@shadeeduliqaab]

Allahu Akbar (Allah is the greatest)

[@echoe4806]

Free slave…ha ha…you will never be free! Only a few ex Muslims can say that!

[@shadeeduliqaab]

@@echoe4806, LOL. Get in touch with an apostate and ask him how he's mentally.

[@echoe4806]

@@shadeeduliqaab You are right…we are probably not ok mentally….we should probably change our attitude…believe in Santa Clause, flying horses to heaven, pedophiles, killing, hating , beating women etc.

[@Fareeh.]

@@echoe4806 we don't believe none of what you mentioned. You are really ignorant and misinformed about islam.

[@echoe4806]

@@Fareeh. I can be more specific and accurate.Are you ready to read the verses? Also you do not believe what says in the Hadith about the prophet flying on Burak to heaven accompanied by archangel Gabriel? You did not know that the prophet married Aisha when she was 6 and consumed the marriage when she was 9 years old?

[@vlad_ussr8390]

I would say here might be multiple logical fallacy's but I am not a 100 percent sure. But what I do know, is that this is a false cause by that we can't explain why things work like they do, therefore allah. That's no proof of a god, if it would be that easy than the whole world would believe in an abrahamic like god. You maybe have proven 1 thing, but you have to prove that all the books that make up islam are true.

[@billionburns]

Why are you not adressing them one by one?

[@mdibrar831]

SubhanAllah

[@aaronharun1394H]

Proof of the Creator is His creation. If we saw a footprint of a bear, we would assume a bear past through that area, eventhough we did not see the bear. If we saw squirrel droppings in the house, we would assume a squirrel sneaked in and we would take the necessary steps to secure the house from the squirrel sneaking in, eventhough we did not see the squirrel. The proof of the Creator is His creation, eventhough we did not see Him.

[@1niyon]

These analogies are extremely terrible examples. What would the footprint of God look like . And what would the absence of God's footprint look like. The proof of the neccesary being I think was well highlighted with the existence of continued existence and change (assuming causation... a reasonable assumption ). This example of God's footprints or fingerprints don't hold much water from what I can tell... because it'd difficult to establish or determine evidence for either

[@aaronharun1394H]

@@1niyon If we saw a building, we would assume someone built it, eventhough we did not see it being built, eventhough we do not see the builder. The proof of the Creator is creation itself, is what He created. Eventhough we did not see Him

[@Jordan-hu8fg]

I'm gonna start by saying that i don't mean to offend anyone and all i want is a conversation but why would this point towards your god in particular instead of the hundreds of other gods credited with creating the world or people in other religions

[@aaronharun1394H]

@@Jordan-hu8fg There is only One creator, brother. Then is He who creates like one who does not create? So will you not be reminded? (Al-Quran 16:17) Say, "If there had been with Him [other] aliha (deities/gods), as they say, then they would have sought to the Owner of the Throne a way." Exalted is He and high above what they say by great sublimity. (Al-Quran 17:42-43)

[@aaronharun1394H]

@@Jordan-hu8fg In Islam, we only worship our Creator, not His creation or any false deities/gods that was errorneously taken throughout history. Say, Allah is the Creator of all things, ... (Al-Quran translation 13:16) O mankind, worship your Rabb (Lord), who created you and those before you .. (Al-Quran translation 2:21) Allah sent His Messengers throughout history to warn men of their error of taking false deities/gods . The guided Messengers were also sent to invite people to the True religion of worshipping solely, the Creator of this world (the One True God) We had certainly sent Noah to his people, and he said, "O my people, worship Allah ; you have no ilah (deity/god) other than Him. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a tremendous Day. (Al-Quran translation 7:59) Noah was among the earlier prophets. He was sent to his community to warn them of their error of taking a false deity or false deities. Amongst the earlier false deity was a pious person, who after his death, later generations would take him as a deity or ilah. These type of misguided practise of taking a man as a deity or a god is still practised in various other religions. The Day mentioned in the verse above refers to the Day of Judgement where everyone will be judged based on their deeds in this world.

[@brycearonee6635]

No rational argument has been put forth for why contingency cannot regress infinitely. It is merely asserted, without evidence or rational argumentation. An argument from incredulity is a fallacy! Furthermore, sufficiency does not equal necessity! A “being” proposed to be sufficient to explain reality as you understand it does not make this being necessary if other explanations are equally or more sufficient. It also renders the entire concept moot if a necessary being is not required (a state that again has not been proved, only asserted).

[@Oneummahgeneration]

It’s not arguing that an infinite regress is incredulous. It’s stating that an infinite series is one that doesn’t end. If an endless series ends then you have a fundamental logical contradiction. That’s the point of the dominoes example. For any last member of a series to be actualised then a series of causes in a hierarchical causal series had to end. Therefore it logically necessitates a finite series otherwise you get this bare face contradiction of an endless series ending.

[@discoveringtruth594]

@OP You haven't actually conceptualised the problem with an infinite regress. You can literally test it using a series of objects representing the casual chain and then extrapolate an infinite series of the process. The key is if they are causally dependent (every entity in the series) and you say the existence of one depends on the existence of its predecessor (caused) and if that predecessor doesn't exist yet because its predecessor didn't exist so on and so forth, then nothing will exist. At no point can you have an effect, only a series of non existences. However in reality there is existence and since there is, this proves a cause that is not caused by any other.

[@silkydude]

With regards to infinity I still don't think you addressed the absurdity of an infinite regress of explanations/contingencies. In any case , even if for the sake of moving the argument forward I conceded on this, the argument from contingency still holds even with an infinite number of contingent things. The number of contingent things (whether you want it to be infinite or not)does not negate the need for an explanation outside the set to explain why they exist at all in the particular way they do. Think about it this way: if the totality of all existence is a collection of contingent things that have an explanation outside of themselves then that would mean that the totality of all things is dependent. This would be incoherent as the set of all dependent contingent things would also require an explanation outside of it self. Therefore a necessary foundation to reality that is independent and has self existence must exist.

[@brycearonee6635]

@@Oneummahgeneration I understand the analogy and I’m aware that you cannot have a “last member” of an infinite series anymore than you can have a “first cause”. But you’re missing my point. This theist is the one assuming and advocating for both a first cause and a last member. But there is no evidence of either. You are merely providing a tautology! You have to demonstrate that there was actually a first cause OR a last member in order to show that the series of causes and effects are finite. If you can’t, then we have no reason to believe they are and there is no problem with an infinite series.

[@Oneummahgeneration]

@@brycearonee6635 I’m glad you accept you can’t have a last member in an infinite series. Nor even a first member. So any member is a product of a past series so even if we take the year 1984 to have arrived at that year you’d have to have completed a infinite number of past events to get to that moment. You would therefore not get to that year.

[@ronakram6690]

Mashallah

[@hussitewagoner6838]

Interesting and intelligent video, I enjoyed it . I don’t get why you removed time from water flow ( which “time” is now theoretically accredited to being the cause of gravity ). Then went to “objects have attributes” , therefore God . He doesn’t make it that difficult. Gods chronological order of Life in the Torah , presents himself as the “I AM “ . Correct chronological knowledge , only observable in the fossil record in the modern time , given 2400 years ago to herdsmen in the desert. Take care and God Bless

[@homtanks7259]

☝🏻

[@KevinChantal]

Everyone you can convince with this video has a really low bar in regards to evidence of a god/Allah

[@Oneummahgeneration]

This is the tenth video in the series and the second one that addresses the rational evidence for God’s existence. The basic argument is that contingent possible beings require an explanation for its existence and that this rationally entails a necessary being.

[@silkydude]

What stage of the argument do you disagree with ? Do you at least concede a necessary foundation to reality must exist?

[@easyguy625]

Not making sense in your structure of arguments.

[@commandar88]

maybe you need to attain a higher intellect to better understand

[@easyguy625]

@@commandar88 Will I need intellect to ask you what do you mean?

[@commandar88]

@@easyguy625 that question is as vague as your initial post

[@easyguy625]

@@commandar88 Why do I need to be super intellectual to understand videos on this channel?

[@commandar88]

@@easyguy625 thats the thing - you don't. But since you yourself said you can't make sense of it, you should stand in the possibility that you need to increase your intellect to better understand. I am not saying you are dumb

[@bengreen171]

It doens't have to be a Being. You're just begging the question. And if you want to use science - I've got bad newsfor you. Science disproves the Quran.

[@ThoughtAdventurePodcast]

The science discussed is not an evidence for God. Rather they exemplify our thinking process that contingent possible beings require an explanation/cause for its existence.

[@bengreen171]

@@ThoughtAdventurePodcast Ok - you missed my point. You used science. You accept it. You accept it as describing reality - your explanation of particle mechanics would be worthless otherwise. But if you accept science, you must also accept that the Quran is not the word of a supreme and all knowing Being - necessary or contingent. Because science disproves the Quran. Ontological arguments are a waste of time, by the way. They saound good to those who already believe, but defining a Being into existence isn't going to convince anyone else.

[@1niyon]

@@bengreen171 science disproves how?

[@Oneummahgeneration]

@@bengreen171 you aren’t making an argument just assertions. Secondly you seem to completely misunderstand the point TAP mentioned in their comment.

[@bengreen171]

@@1niyon It disproves the Quran with three numbers. Here's how this is going to go down. You're going to deny it and come up with a series of weak arguments, firstly claiming that it doesn't say what it clearly says, and then you'll retreat to your 'how do you know that' position used by all presuppers when they cannot refute actual facts about reality. And at the end of it, I'll still be here knowing that you cannot refute the truth and you'll run away with your tail between your legs, or maybe even throw shade on the Bible or make a last ditch appeal to morality. so. Are you ready for this? 41: 9 - 12. Let's not do the feigning ignorance thing. If you don't know what the implications of these numbers are, then you're a fool.

[@momin1491]

Lol Rejected the debate challenge by AP just shows crooks u guys are What a shame

[@momin1491]

@@mohdsadiq1928 that was the 1st one . Ap has proposed a 2nd debate and these little weasels have no guts and are too afraid

[@Timeren2010]

What a joke...

[@1niyon]

What is the joke

[@Timeren2010]

@@1niyon the entire idea of "rational" proof for some god's existence...ridiculous more than a joke really.

[@jasjas3642]

@@Timeren2010 Hamster Joe you need to go back and run on your hamster wheel. There are no jokes here

[@Timeren2010]

@@jasjas3642 thats funny. Mankind has made up all sorts of shit on the origin of the universe, god and all that, for thousands of years, no one has ever proven anything, its an open question, and no youtube video is going to change that. Get over your delusion my friend.

[@1niyon]

@@Timeren2010 I think although the title says rational proof for god , the content never claims this neccesary being must be god. That's an important distinction. Secondly, all rational arguments require assumptions, and the assumption in this argument is causation... and the definition of neccesary. They define it clearly in a previous vid very clearly. The only conclusion they have come to rationally from the assumptions is that there exists a neccesary existence. Not that it is god. Comparing the Islamic view wouldn't then be rationally be proving god, but rather , an induction or inference that there exists similarities between the conclusion made and the belief of Islam