Ravel's Left-Hand Concerto: Missing Bar Mystery SOLVED

[@jacquesracine9571]

Thank-you, SherlockHurwitz.

[@stevemcclue5759]

"Wittgenstein got his paws on it.." that should be paw, (singular) no? 😄

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That includes his feet. He had three paws.

[@dennischiapello7243]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Actually, he had one paw and two dogs!

[@Mooseman327]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Did Wittgenstein actually play the piece with the use of his feet? No wonder Ravel hated him! That's cheating!

[@MartinL.A.]

This is my KZbin favourite channel. As a classical music collector for almost 20 years, I need this daily rant to either be content or annoyed, otherwise I would be dead! Cheers, Dave!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thank you!

[@AlexMadorsky]

The last time I thought this much about a single bar, I was in law school! Thanks for sussing this out. A very fine example of how the search for ultimate authenticity can lead to an ultimately absurd outcome.

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

This is KZbin internet history. Dave Hurwitz is the first KZbin video essayist in the platform's history to use an original source instead of Wikipedia.

[@dvdjrv7976]

Funnily enough, Paul Wittgestein recorded the Left Hand Concerto with Max Rudolf and the Met Orchestra - in Ravel's final "version". Or at least I think it is, regarding the number of "Chun-kuk's" at the end.. (It can be found on KZbin)

[@nathanmathurin7318]

This dilemma reminds me of the closing to Gershwin's Cuban Overture: the penultimate bar is meant to be played three times, but some recordings don't do this, which messes up the proportions and sounds abrupt just like in these new Ravel recordings! Gershwin wrote out said bar once in the autograph manuscript, but wrote to repeat it three times on top, which was subsequently overlooked and misprinted by publishers of the orchestral score, and remains the case, alas... PS Dave, I completely agree with you about your reference recording of the Ravel Left Hand Concerto. François and Cluytens are absolutely brilliant in bringing out the beauty and drama of this masterpiece!

[@1-JBL]

Excellent! The only recording I have of the piece is a Boulez take, and I immediately checked it for missing bars. None!

[@davidrowe1004]

Bertrand Chamayou also plays it with that measure cut on his concert performance with the Netherlands Philharmonic in October 2023. It can be found here on KZbin.

[@violamateo-on8pc]

How anyone would think that cutting out that measure is OK (thus rendering the phrase completely asymmetrical), is beyond me.

[@ukdavepianoman]

I love your chunk badadada chunk badadada's, crash. I'm curious to hear Wittgenstein's horrible version but perhaps I won't bother as it is a masterpiece as Ravel wrote it. Jorge Bolet cut out two bars at the end of the Rach PC3 cadenza in his recording but at least he had the decency to explain why in the programme notes.

[@judsonmusick3177]

Good job, Dave!

[@lonchaneyfanch9568]

Thanks for the explication David. Too bad what the interpreters do permît themselves with Ravel's original intentions. I must confess there's another mystery to solve for me, for years... In the Jean-Efflam Bavouzet remarkable complete Debussy set, when listening, to the Préludes, in "La Cathédrale engloutie", I noticed a note clearly missing at 0'41 or 0'42. I have only noticed this missing in Debussy's own piano rolls of the piece. Otherwise, every other pianists do include this note. Could David or someone else help me to solve this enigma that keeps me from sleeping ? Thanks...

[@nicolascouton5408]

Speaking of odd endings : did you ever notice there is a "big difference" between the last bars of the orchestral and the piano score of Poulenc's Stabat Mater ? Everybody plays the piano version: "A-a-a-a-a-a-meeeeen. Paaa-paaaaaaaaaaaaa-Pa" meanwhile the orchestral score is shorter : "A-a-a-a-a-a-meeeeen. Paaaaaa-Pa". I heard once someone (De Billy in concert with the French National Orchestra) conducting what is really in the score, and it's rather, well, surprising...

[@kellyrichardson3665]

Can we digitally manipulate the recordings with the missing bar and sneak it back in? (Does either recording warrant this, or are we okay just not buying them?) In the Claudio Abbado Complete Schubert Symphonies on DGG there is one first violinist in the orchestra who sticks out slightly from the rest during one note of the exposition. During the repeat of the exposition the same tiny glitch happens. They clearly used a single take for both the exposition and the repeat.

[@EgoSumAbbas820]

You can hear the tam tam in the final bar on Roth's recording.

[@arnausubiracanaleta3162]

Would you consider making a review of Wittgenstein's recording of the concerto?😅😊

[@IanKnight40]

Fascinating Dave. Perhaps there is a series to be had here....... Klassical kuts go Kerchunk.

[@thomcook8570]

IMO the best Chun-kuk, Chun-kuk, Chun-kuk, CRASH! is, Andrei Gavrilov/Simon Rattle LSO. I recently listened to the Cedric Tiberghien/Francois-Xavier Roth which the did quite well UNTIL THE FINAL CODA. What a botched joke! I was on the floor laughing my ass-off. Interested in knowing what you think.

[@Bezart34]

It goes to show "Only trust the golden oldies, and beware new young whipper-snappers!"

[@HassoBenSoba]

Very informative.

[@chadweirick67]

I was really hoping you'd be wearing a deerstalker hat with a pipe after sleuthing out the answer

[@johnpowell4976]

Re Wittgenstein getting 'his paws on it' surely you mean 'got his paw on it" 🙂

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

See the comments. Asked and answered

[@HoraceInExile]

I know that those Barenreiter editions are expensive, but I cannot even find a way to get a hold of them. Do you get them directly from the company?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, I ordered it from Presto music in the UK.

[@HoraceInExile]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you SO much for that tip!

[@Bezart34]

@@HoraceInExile Presto are very reliable.

[@Ingrampix]

Tamtam's clear enough if not loud enough with Francois/Cluytens. Not sure what producers are afraid of.

[@sualee890]

thank you for the funny and informative content 🤣🤣

[@musicianinseattle]

Oh, Lord, people...just play the damn thing as Ravel intended it. Why the constant striving on some musicians' parts to be different for the sake of being different?