Building the 80" Deboer Seaview RC Submarine - Chapter Five

[@Hoagiemon]

Outstanding. My favorite sub and that version looks absolutely authentic to the tv series.

[@bobbova8708]

I'm sorry to see you struggling so much with my favorite submarine since childhood, but seeing you work the problems is both interesting and a learning experience. Here's hoping for the best,I don't think this sub could be in better hands!

[@eg395]

What a process to get this boat trimmed to where the owner wants it. Keep up the good work.

[@YouTubecx4]

This channel is getting more popular and interesting every week 👍

[@samaustman4286]

Or put a clear plate on the back section and seal it so it adds flotation.

[@darrenandcarolynoneill2399]

Another great video Bob.

[@rolandtheheadlessthompsong4346]

Love it Bob

[@undersee604]

Hey Bob good video ,I bought Dennis original prototype Seaview it never saw water , your videos are giving me the sub bug again, keep up the good work. Dan

[@jamienevill1768]

This is such a reminder of a type 7c U boat that i was refitting for a customer. Fortunately, they solved the problem for me when they demanded it back, unfinished. I also ripped all the workings out as they refused to pay! Hope you get this sorted as it must be very frustrating by now.

[@SOONERHOOSIER22]

The most difficult build expectation this hobby can offer, and you two are So Close.

[@mikedimaio1237]

Great looking ship, maybe you could vacuum bag the crew area to seal it water tight to displace water instead of the foam block, as for the listing, could you put a weight on a servo arm to trim it, in a perfect world a gyro could control it, just throwing it out there.

[@JamesBetteley]

It looks as though you're top heavy. Do you have Keel Weights on the bottom? Also, don't use foam for boyancy spraying it inside or you'll make a big mess and find out you can't submerge. Much better to use little trim tanks fwd, aft and a couple in between. Put them centerline or you'll tip. With trim tanks, you can add and empty as needed to find just the right amount of boyancy on the surface. Hope that helps. An old submariner. Jim

[@kevinsmith1260]

Can you put weights in the port mantis fin? Would that help balance the boat?

[@RobBean-wf9ie]

Could you add the false bulkhead to the front of the foam block, that way your static dis[play wouldn’t be compromised.

[@samaustman4286]

Bob, could you take a picture of the back part of the control room and use that as a backdrop?

[@maciejkrol2255]

Have you considered perhaps adding some low-profile ballast on the underside, like a false keel made of a piece of lead bar stock? It could be detachable, bolting into the keel inside the ballast tank via the drain holes. That would put some weight as low as it gets, distribute it evenly along the length of the hull, and free up some space inside. It would be invisible when running, and you could remove it when out of the water to keep the look true to the show. Obviously I don't have the model in front of me so don't know how feasible it all would be, just throwing some idea around ;)

[@RCSubGuy]

That's exactly the path I'm going to go. Good thinking!

[@patrickodonnell9891]

Seal the bridge and add long foam along the sides.

[@dalevalentine1721]

What if you moved the ballast tank solenoids lower in the hull? I know there would be extra connections that might leak, but it could help lower the centre of gravity a bit.

[@RCSubGuy]

Good thinking, but they actually weigh very little and space is actually really tight anywhere below the waterline.

[@RichardTeskey]

How big of a cylinder can you put in if hull is cut too just back of deck edge opening? Rick

[@RCSubGuy]

Only about 3.25"

[@RichardTeskey]

Ditching ballast tank flat lid for cylinder Might be best

[@Go4Corvette]

As the captain of that beautiful sub and its cost $$$$$$$$$$$, if it went to the bottom I think would drop to my knees, start crying, 😭and then jump in the lake to go down with the ship.🤣 More backup systems, please.

[@SkyrayModels]

Tricky balancing act for sure.

[@Go4Corvette]

Add airbags? better than foam? Automatic trimming with air pump.

[@cnico9296]

use spray foam in a balloon.

[@WatchMan1962]

Get Ed to come over to help

[@davidhewson8605]

Frustrating Admiral !. 😂 Texans never give up. Fingers crossed. Thanks again you and co-pilot. Dave

[@danielfitzgerald3417]

Try individual smaller tanks each with its own pump, you must control the boats trim with individual ballast tanks separated . Judging by your water ballast tanks they are way to big and your flooding all the tanks at the time, which will cause sloshing as their are no baffles in the tanks. Subs stability is stablized by trimming the tanks individually . The trimming of the tanks determines the subs stability. So you take each tank split it into four separate tanks each sealed from each other with individual pipes in each one to pump water in, separate tank pumps for port and starboard you need about six or eight mini pumps not foam . Water is used in separate tanks to stablize the trim this also controls its listing. Your tanks are all wrong: nice boat but the problem is the ballast tanks:

[@RCSubGuy]

First off, the main tank is baffled and sectioned into six sub-sections that are completely separate, save for the ability for air (not water) to move in the chamber. Submarine stability has nothing to do with individual tanks and everything to do with the size of the righting moment caused by the opposing forces of weight and buoyancy. Yes, the tank is large and yes, there is a potential for water movement in the ballast tank, but the biggest issue is that in order to get something approaching the correct waterline, the ballast tank must be very low, which means the aforementioned buoyant force is low in the boat, causing the righting moment to be very small.

[@danielfitzgerald3417]

@@RCSubGuy your tanks are too big because simply if they where correct, then you would be able to trim the boat with them . I was not trying too be rude. I have been a RC boat modeler for over 40 years. You shift water from port to starboard to trim your boat. I saw water spilling in from one tank to the next each tank really should have an individual pump run off your radio ie. I have known about 100 or so rc sub owners never have i seen foam inside a model sub. Generally speaking you take the sub empty place weights in the hull equally along its length as naturally when you place a sub in the water with the tanks empty when you place in the water empty the sub should sit at its appropriate waterline this generally is 3/4 of the hull submerged with a portion of the hull and deck and conning tower protruding.so my advice is this take the tanks out of the boat all of them. Then take weights each equally placed on the exact keel along the hull place the hull in the water it will sink with increased weight adjust the weights so that the hull is sitting on an even keel and is submerged with the deck sitting say 1 to 2 inches above the water now after this place your tanks over top the weights temp held in place next install your pumps then using your big expensive radio i saw you with at the pool start flooding the tanks the deck should be sealed on when you do this , i think you will be in for a nice surprise. I have been a model rc boater since i was 15 years old i am now 60 further i am a home machinist And i build from scratch model metal working steam engines based upon blue prints. Standard sub building practices cannot be applied to the Seaview as the design is not based on a working model. When Disney created the models for the movie “ Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea” These where NOT radio controlled they simply where weighed and divers in a pool simply pushed them by hand underwater while the camera’s where rolling so you dealing with a model not really based upon a working real submarine. The sails in the conning tower don’t really help either plus this sub is quite narrow from stem to stern. You did a good job building it, but because of its design characteristic’s ballasting it requires special approaches, and i have just told you one of the way to accomplish this. Take it or leave , if you have 17 years exp. Then sir respectfully you would not be using foam model subs like the real thing do NOT have foam blocks in the Hull. A person to contact on this is Lee Upshaw if he is still alive he owns a company titled “War Ship Hulls Unlimited” in Seattle Washington , he was formally a US naval Architect and might be able to help you as he offers several big big Gato class sub hulls in 1/48 scale. But he is or was a kind of snob back in 1986 when he sold me a US destroyer hull in 1/48 the USS Gearing he did not mold the hull with the appropriate beam the plans indicated a 10 1/2 beam the hull he sent me was nine inch beam he tells me as a excuse to stretch the beam by force i did the hull cracked what he did was this, he did not make a new mold for the gearing he went cheap and stretched a mold he used for the Fletcher class, anyway he is a snob he may tell you that since you did not buy the sub hull from him he will not give you the advice i possibly gave you. A sub upon going into to the water must obtain a deep displacement this means that 75 to 85 of the hull must be submerged if not it will be top heavy and list to port or starboard. Don’t be snobby sir remember that a lot of professional modelers like me are watching. My current projects are a 8 foot tug boat, a 8 ft chris craft a 7 foot coast guard cutter a five foot coast guard boat and a number of others from scratch all in various stages of construction i use a ten channel Flysky radia cheap but a dam good radio my past buildings of kits where mostly Dumas kits of which i built many. Anyway best of luck. Regards Daniel Ottawa Canada:

[@RCSubGuy]

Wow.. where to start? Let's go in order, in point form for brevity, and, in advance and as a fellow Canadian, please accept my apologies as the following will likely read rather tersely and you will likely take some degree of offense.: 1.) Stability has nothing to do with tank size. 2.) Your experience with RC boats has no bearing on your ability to properly identify and rectify an issue with an RC submarine. RC boats are exponentially simpler than a sub. with your boats, you're trimming for one static state in one plane of operation. Comparing the two craft is like comparing a paper airplane to a real airplane in terms of complexity. 3.) I've not ever heard of an RC submarine with trim tanks for roll. What you're talking about is a valid solution, but highly complicated to implement compared to simply trimming the boat properly in the first place. I've been there, done that, and have the videos posted to prove it. 4.) 100 RC sub owners. Really? That's impressive. I am doubtful at this number, but hey, what do I know? I only have the most comprehensive database of RC sub skippers in North America, after all. 5.) Foam is virtually ALWAYS used in an RC submarine except if you're talking about the old dry hull boats with a million bolts to hold a flat lid on the watertight compartment. 6.) This particular submarine project has NO flotation without foam. Nothing floats in it. Nothing 7.) A submarine waterline is not 3/4 of the way up the deck. It ranges from around 2/3 to 9/10, depending on the subject 8.) With your (interesting) ballasting technique, how the heck are you getting a submarine to float at waterline with the tanks not installed yet? Put the weights in, achieve proper waterline and THEN add a ballast tank? Are you on drugs? At best, the sub with no tank could be trimmed to submerged state, either neutrally or slightly positively buoyant. You understand that, right? 9.) Your age, the fact you were a machinist, or that you build steam models has no bearing on the experience needed to build a submarine. I am a private pilot, but that doesn't give me the experience needed to fly the space shuttle, does it? 10.) Disney didn't create VTTBOT. It was an Irwin Allen movie brought out by 20th Century Fox in 1961. 11.) Yes, you're correct! Ballasting this fantasy submarine does require special approaches, which I am currently undertaking. 12.) I don't have 17 years experience. I have 25 years of experience. Throughout my professional building career, I have built HUNDREDS of RC submarines. Most of them are even documented here on my KZbin channel. I literally wrote the book on RC submarines. Perhaps you should invest in a copy of it: "Diving Deep: A beginner's guide to RC submarines" 13.) Lee is a hull manufacturer and is fully retired now. I'd go to him for his experience in laying up fiberglass hulls, not for building an RC submarine. 14.) A stable submarine does not require deep displacement. It requires a high righting force, which is obtained with the upward force of buoyancy acting high in the hull directly over the weight (center of mass), which pulls the boat downward. 15.) I am not being snobby. You are simply giving incorrect information based on armchair experience and I am pushing back. You have not built an RC submarine and do not have sufficient RC submarine experience to tell me what I am doing is wrong with any authority. If your advice had validity, I would happily accept and compliment it.

[@danielfitzgerald3417]

@@RCSubGuy Thank you, but i swear to you, although i do not build subs , i say to you that i have never seen foam ever in any of my friends Submarines that is a Factum. I am not offended its really not complicated to have multi pumps. You do not understand what i am trying to assist you with. Look your sub needs to be weighed down enough with lead ballast first with water ballest tanks emptied to the proper water line , then you fill up the tanks as you fill them up the sub slowly sinks when they are pumped out the sub surfaces. I have sir studied many many builders of model rc subs i could build one blind folded further i have studied the real working sub of today and yesterday, but i frankly am not a sub man as i don’t like models i cannot see when submerged. Regarding your comparison to surface craft yes subs require that extra touch of education and some guess work but in all cases boyancy balancing is Practically the same especially in the case of having a list to port or starboard. I saw your tanks, you indicated that my solution was complicated well yes to some it would be( thats not an insult) in the modelling field we all learn from each other non of us know everything we take what can use from others with our own ideas and sometimes mix the two together to form a working relationship. Look if it where me with your sub project i would dump the current ballast system pull out a sheet of paper a rule and start over again. Further as i stated take the tanks out or empty and seal them to open sea water, then take lead with your ship afloat place it right on the keel the length of the ship right to the engine compartment and forward to the fins at the bow then place it in your pool,measure where the scale waterline would be before hand which should somewhere between one and two inches below the deck on each side once you do this and she’s not listing, then fill the tanks until she starts to sink upto the the top of the conning tower fins see if she holds a neutral boyant position , this is exactly what i would do. Your tanks i would change them i would have eight separate tanks on each side of the keel each two tanks port and starboard of the keel would have each their own water intake pump, two things infact excuse me trim a sub the sail fins and the stern fins in conjunction INFACT with sea water Ballast. Good luck regards D:

[@danielfitzgerald3417]

You indicate 17 years, well the Seaview is no different in trimming then any other sub. I see your tanks are all conpletely wrong.

[@RCSubGuy]

Educate me, oh master of submarines.