Classical Composer Reacts to L.A. Woman by The Doors | The Daily Doug (Episode 781)

  Рет қаралды 36,505

Doug Helvering

Doug Helvering

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 409
@acason4
@acason4 8 ай бұрын
One of my absolute favorite Doors tunes All-Time. This track is epic.
@ronnyrudeboy7461
@ronnyrudeboy7461 8 ай бұрын
Haven´t heard single one bad song from Doors, all good.
@JeffreyTheTaylor
@JeffreyTheTaylor 8 ай бұрын
Bassist Jerry Scheff is a renowned session player who spent time in some guy named Elvis' band. His contribution to this track is absolutely essential.
@martycranford9909
@martycranford9909 8 ай бұрын
I believe his son replaced Peter Cetera in Chicago
@fatlahbazooka
@fatlahbazooka 8 ай бұрын
@@martycranford9909 Yeah. Jason Scheff.
@timbriere2325
@timbriere2325 8 ай бұрын
This whole album is made better by Jerry Scheff. Serving the King and the Lizard King.
@jaquestraw1
@jaquestraw1 8 ай бұрын
This song is LA. You can feel the heat, smell the smog, the millions of people. I miss LA, will always be home to me
@mybachhertzbaud3074
@mybachhertzbaud3074 8 ай бұрын
In my short time there, As a delivery driver, I covered almost every inch of L.A. and Orange counties. Met people from just about every country on the planet. Had a wonderful time there.😁
@josemenendez4454
@josemenendez4454 8 ай бұрын
Mr MOJO rising= Jim Morrison
@Coowallsky
@Coowallsky Ай бұрын
@@josemenendez4454 He talked about that in the video.
@danc3636
@danc3636 8 ай бұрын
Great band, great album. Picked up when it first came out, in 1971, and still listen to it today. All the songs on the album we’re very good
@malcolmfield6677
@malcolmfield6677 8 ай бұрын
I am truly amaxed that this is the first time that you are hearing this incredible piece.
@Rob-eo5ql
@Rob-eo5ql 8 ай бұрын
His ode to Los Angeles. LA is the Woman
@chrisvickers7928
@chrisvickers7928 8 ай бұрын
I was at a party over 40 years ago, fairly buzzed, and some one put this on the stereo. I was 30 years old, I was in the best condition of my life, was dancing with a beautiful woman, and belting the lyrics out full belt. Nowadays any one of those would have had me on the ground gasping for air. I had had enough alcohol to think I was great. The woman i was dancing with lied beautifully and said I was great. Those were the days.
@scottstambaugh8473
@scottstambaugh8473 8 ай бұрын
OMG... are you me? Same experience.
@michaelhall2709
@michaelhall2709 5 ай бұрын
65 going on 66, dude. Boy, do I hear you.
@michael6116-t2k
@michael6116-t2k 4 ай бұрын
at 25 years old, I truly wish I lived during the time where this would just be coming out...Hearing this for the first time as a new release must have been absolutely incredible
@jimmypenrose1401
@jimmypenrose1401 8 ай бұрын
Ray Manzarek had such a weird and wonderful keyboard style; it always seemed evocative of a tap-dancing skeleton in a haunted house.
@erinames7783
@erinames7783 5 ай бұрын
once you catch doors fever it never lets go. They are timeless. Their music is as cool and relevant today as it was when it came out. They are my all time favourite band.
@splitimage137.
@splitimage137. 8 ай бұрын
Glad to see you doing more classic rock, Dr.
@russellmarriott9396
@russellmarriott9396 8 ай бұрын
This is The Doors at their very best. What a song.
@RolandTumble23
@RolandTumble23 8 ай бұрын
One of my all-time favorite freeway cruising songs....
@lyric8006
@lyric8006 7 ай бұрын
It was great watching someone listen to the Door’s for the first time and with so much joy.
@michaelbaucom4019
@michaelbaucom4019 8 ай бұрын
Still their best song. Still fresh, still fascinating, 50-odd years later, both musically and lyrically. RIP Jim and Ray
@charleslatora5750
@charleslatora5750 8 ай бұрын
Truth
@4thlinemaniac356
@4thlinemaniac356 8 ай бұрын
@Rimbaud And Morrison after being influenced by French poet Arthur Rimbaud he quit the Cabal changed his name became right wing political analyst and later tv talk show host Rush Limbaugh. Be sure to google images of such.
@Scottlp2
@Scottlp2 7 ай бұрын
They have so many great tracks including Love Her Madly, Soft Parade, Break on Through and yes this one.
@kevocarroll3297
@kevocarroll3297 7 ай бұрын
Doug - the greatest rock band ever in my opinion - it's so sad that they never got to perform the song live in it's finished form. Morrison passed away July 3, 1971, shortly after this album was released. I've been singing their praises since 1967, and still doing so at 72. The Daily Doug is keeping me sane and happy - keep it up please buddy. Cheers! To feel the real power of this band playing live, check out The Celebration of the Lizard, from the album Absolutely Live, a long rambling piece, about Jim's possible alter ego, the Lizard King
@dynjarren7523
@dynjarren7523 6 ай бұрын
Hey, the Doors did play LA Woman and Riders live once at their last concerts. I think it was Dallas live. However, Jim was out of it so he didn’t sing it the same as the album so it’s for hardcore fans only. Poor sound, too. I actually heard they played Riders at their last concert in New Orleans which was taped by the owner of the venue. But he won’t sell it or release it and now the tapes are over 45 years old so they are probably deteriorated. So most likely that show is lost forever. Too bad.
@Das_Ginger
@Das_Ginger 8 ай бұрын
When that snare crack comes in, you just know its on.
@edelcorrallira
@edelcorrallira 8 ай бұрын
Well as someone who spent a considerable amount of time in, I think that the pulse of the city is perfectly captured in this driving beat. Honestly every time I listen to this song, it really just brings back memories of the streets of LA. It really is a very pictorial description of the city, wrapped up in a flawless song.
@SuperStrik9
@SuperStrik9 5 ай бұрын
Greatest driving song of all time. Just want to add all 6 studio albums with Jim and the live album Absolutely Live are all must own albums imo. Incredible.
@rogerberryman6467
@rogerberryman6467 5 ай бұрын
Yes Doug, become elevated and listen to the whole album!
@scott3744
@scott3744 8 ай бұрын
LOTS of the Doors' songs have what I always think of as the "ghost town" piano sound, it's part of their signature sound 👍😂
@jc3745
@jc3745 7 ай бұрын
As someone that grew up in L.A. listening to the Doors in the 60's and 70's, this is the song about that city.
@thepiratecats801
@thepiratecats801 8 ай бұрын
One of the greatest songs and albums of my life.
@brettnipps7205
@brettnipps7205 8 ай бұрын
My most favorite Doors LA WOMAN!!!!!!!!!!
@johnsmith-tn8rn
@johnsmith-tn8rn 8 ай бұрын
Ray Manzarik told the story of Morrison bringing Jerry Scheff in. The band had always relied on Ray playing the bass on his keyboards and Jim wasn’t sure how especially Ray would react. Ray said when he saw Jerry, he was thrilled. Also, Robbie Krieger’s guitar playing on LA Woman is superb. And love that he’s been married to wife Lynn since 1972.
@andrewgoss9013
@andrewgoss9013 8 ай бұрын
While Ray did take on bass duties during live shows, all of the studio albums had at least one studio/session bass player on them. So, I don't know what Ray is talking about, but he did do a lot of drugs 😆
@Sidneyyoungblood75
@Sidneyyoungblood75 2 ай бұрын
Incorrect. Totally Incorrect. Bruce Botnick brought Scheff in. Morrison loved it cos of the Elvis link. Ray never had a problem with studio bass players. He put down his keyboard bass track and the studio bass was played over on the same track (they only had 8 tracks to record on in them days - and analogue tape). When you get track breakdowns, you can still hear the vocal or the other tracks faintly.
@Tim_York
@Tim_York 8 ай бұрын
I was thinking it’s the Doors, Doug should have brought the Devil’s lettuce. I thought that was a prerequisite for the Doors. Lol.
@gregmainer5416
@gregmainer5416 8 ай бұрын
Well yes, lol 🌬☁️
@johncarpenter3751
@johncarpenter3751 8 ай бұрын
He probably did that “off camera”
@kellieelliott5198
@kellieelliott5198 8 ай бұрын
Pass that lettuce over here. I’m making a salad 😂🤣😂🤣
@kimhoffman4512
@kimhoffman4512 7 ай бұрын
Motel money, murder madness was said to have been a reference to the Manson Family murders.
@rigpa10
@rigpa10 5 ай бұрын
yes it was -
@c.j.7752
@c.j.7752 8 ай бұрын
Shout out to Robby Krieger for playing the guitar on this great song.
@robertsonwilliams8650
@robertsonwilliams8650 8 ай бұрын
Can't go wrong with the doors ,this whole album is a classic .
@lawrenceheadrick
@lawrenceheadrick 8 ай бұрын
This is one of my all time favorite albums!!
@ronwilliams2647
@ronwilliams2647 8 ай бұрын
Great reaction Doug .nice to hear you ticking the ivories! Lol ..Nobody could sing like Jim Morrison ...he is still missed.Its a great album and you do need to listen to the whole thing
@altair8598
@altair8598 8 ай бұрын
Love it. Yes, please do the whole album even if you have done one of the tracks before. Hyacinth House has always been a favourite of mine.
@stwbryfld1
@stwbryfld1 7 ай бұрын
Born and raised in LA. Came back after school. It's a special city. So many diverse yet unique opportunities to experience. Want to go to the beach? 30 minutes west. Mountains? 30 minutes north or east. Desert? An hour and a half east. And that's just for recreational stuff. Culturally, arts, music, educational experiences are easily accessible. Truly just pick a time and you'll have 20 things to choose from. Our ridiculous traffic is a downside but you take the good with the bad but you still come out in the positive
@diegoramirez7901
@diegoramirez7901 8 ай бұрын
The drums + bass sounds exactly like a V8 roaming LA
@gilbertkelly-sx8gh
@gilbertkelly-sx8gh 4 ай бұрын
it's all in the groove - have you heard Texas Radio And The Big Beat - that is groove city!
@gj8683
@gj8683 8 ай бұрын
"The Changeling" the first track on the LA Woman album, is not to be missed!
@gregw6748
@gregw6748 8 ай бұрын
Cracking song.....
@chuckcelemin6789
@chuckcelemin6789 8 ай бұрын
First album I ever brought; as a 12yo in 1979. Still one of my best decisions ever.
@ericwilliams1031
@ericwilliams1031 8 ай бұрын
This band played so good together. It puts a tear in my eye. Every song they did was fire!
@73challenger5031
@73challenger5031 8 ай бұрын
'71 was the culmination of the Manson families reign of terror so, I think the mood was solemn at the time in LA.
@rigpa10
@rigpa10 5 ай бұрын
motel money murder madness refers to the manson murders - the police found the first clue to who did the murders when found a dead body of a man that was in this motel -
@rigpa10
@rigpa10 5 ай бұрын
come on it was not a reign of terror - the genocide by the US military in vietnam at that same time was a reign of terror - manson was never proven to murder any one - he was convicted of conspiracy - and ordering others to kill - the prosecution hid a lot of evidence to protect some rich people -
@Sidneyyoungblood75
@Sidneyyoungblood75 2 ай бұрын
Nope, not quite. Yes the mood in LA had changed. Manson trial started in 1970. The only dead guy they found was supposedly the ex biker who "shot himself" doing Russian roulette. Motel money murder madness doesn't refer to Manson. It was the story he wrote for the premise of HWY: An American Pastoral
@73challenger5031
@73challenger5031 2 ай бұрын
@@Sidneyyoungblood75 The murders were in '69 and we were all freaked out about it on the West Coast. The rest of what you said has nothing to do with what I posted.
@debmacdonald1037
@debmacdonald1037 8 ай бұрын
the older this gets one realizes just how good this track is.
@guilastocker8051
@guilastocker8051 24 күн бұрын
Loved it since it first came out.
@shemanic1
@shemanic1 8 ай бұрын
Superb rockin' by the Doors.
@ernestoorellana6745
@ernestoorellana6745 3 ай бұрын
The last album with frontman Jim Morrison before his early death in July 3rd 1971 in Paris
@WeirsBeard
@WeirsBeard 8 ай бұрын
Thank you for a grate share today Doug! You have a wonderful channel!🙏
@johnallen869
@johnallen869 8 ай бұрын
Road House Blues and The End are a must listen!
@MATTHEW-rp3kq
@MATTHEW-rp3kq 7 ай бұрын
then he walked on down the hall
@Gregory-k3e
@Gregory-k3e 6 ай бұрын
Thank for doing this classic
@patrickcampion7966
@patrickcampion7966 8 ай бұрын
I haven't read all the comments, but if not already mentioned, Mr Mojo Risin' is an anagram of Jim Morrison. Edit: I hadn't gotten to the point in the video when you discussed this. I also find it fascinating that in the short span of 4-5 years Jim went from a young rock god to sounding like a blown out old blues man on this song. He really did embrace the rock and roll lifestyle with all the consequences that come with that. I'd highly suggest you start at the beginning and review their 1967 debut album in its entirety.
@lunixcaptain
@lunixcaptain 8 ай бұрын
Please do the whole album, its their best. Blues, hard.
@yaliberkoxut
@yaliberkoxut 7 ай бұрын
Hahahaha when he mentioned the “devil lettuce” my respect increased for the mister 😊
@danreed5171
@danreed5171 8 ай бұрын
Doug U ROCK
@eigenstatezero
@eigenstatezero 3 ай бұрын
Epic song. Such an unique band.
@scott3744
@scott3744 8 ай бұрын
Yes, it is *definitely* a rockin' tune 👍😁
@sprinklesthedrummer9731
@sprinklesthedrummer9731 8 ай бұрын
I absolutely love watching you dicesect songs, while FULLY enjoying the ride. Very entertaining, and you CLEARLY have perfect pitch. Cheers, Doug 🍻
@JKAtTheInn
@JKAtTheInn 15 күн бұрын
this is a banger of a reaction well done sir
@yasserwallaby5835
@yasserwallaby5835 8 ай бұрын
One of my favorite song to play on the bass. It's exhausting, but so much fun
@ValSalva1337
@ValSalva1337 8 ай бұрын
11:09 peak excitement and interest is achieved by Doug as evidenced by grin. Great reaction Doug!
@c.inesr.7292
@c.inesr.7292 8 ай бұрын
Ohh, thank you, thank you, thank you!!
@shredofmalarchi
@shredofmalarchi 6 ай бұрын
Best song by the best american band.
@Itsakindamagic
@Itsakindamagic Ай бұрын
I grew up in Los Angeles, and I'm always struck by how much this song sounds like LA. I roamed the valley, Sunset Strip, the beaches and hills as a teenager, seeing her hair burning and the underground people. They caught it all perfectly, making me feel like a teenager again.
@shawnkilpatrickmusic
@shawnkilpatrickmusic 8 ай бұрын
FYI, “Mr Mojo Risin” is an anagram for “Jim Morrison.” 😉
@AlanDavidDoane
@AlanDavidDoane 8 ай бұрын
Beat me to it!
@gazzie12000
@gazzie12000 8 ай бұрын
Which is exactly what Doug says in the video !
@monkeyhousescouse
@monkeyhousescouse 8 ай бұрын
Yeah I was gonna say Doug missed that! 😂
@4thlinemaniac356
@4thlinemaniac356 8 ай бұрын
Of coarse You should know after being influenced by French Poet Arthur Rimbaud he quit music changed his name became right wing political activist and later tv talk show host Rush Limbaugh. Before You laugh google images Read Rimbaugh And Morrison the book.
@dogsmusicbookstravelscience
@dogsmusicbookstravelscience 8 ай бұрын
Yep. 12:10
@DutchDaddy
@DutchDaddy 8 ай бұрын
Such a fun and gritty track. Really stands out on the album along with Riders on the Storm. God I am born too late..
@StevenPD
@StevenPD 8 ай бұрын
Great analysis. I enjoyed your inclusion of music theory in your analysis. I will definitely check out more of your posts. Cheers!
@kurterickson9781
@kurterickson9781 8 ай бұрын
This is Jim's interpretation of the overall state of L.A. at that time.
@eric_day84
@eric_day84 8 ай бұрын
The whole album is great and definitely worth a listen. LA Woman may be my favorite song by these guys, which is hard to say because they have so many great songs, but this one always hits me in a way that just makes me feel great. It has such a great groove to it. It's also a great driving song. Once in a while I'll get in a mood to go for a drive and listen to music and this song is a perfect song for that. Man, I love The Doors!
@johnhickman2033
@johnhickman2033 8 ай бұрын
I always think of Raymond Chandler's La from the late 30s and early 40s
@scott3744
@scott3744 8 ай бұрын
What a great song... all-time classic, not just of the Doors, but of the whole classic rock era 👍😎
@bearwoody
@bearwoody Ай бұрын
There's one word for this recording...swingin'!
@barbaraanneneale3674
@barbaraanneneale3674 8 ай бұрын
There was one other album released after his death called American prayer Technically. He only provided spoken word for that rest of the band cleverly put his recorded spoken word to not bad music.
@marcusdaniel9669
@marcusdaniel9669 8 ай бұрын
A solid insight into Morrison's lyricism/poetry and the band's musicality!
@barbaraanneneale3674
@barbaraanneneale3674 8 ай бұрын
@@marcusdaniel9669 Oh, absolutely. They were really good at finding the rhythm of Morrison's voice and picking it up musically.
@Coowallsky
@Coowallsky Ай бұрын
The Doors released two LPs after Jim died before breaking up.
@blakenorman4822
@blakenorman4822 3 ай бұрын
This is a masterpiece, for me tied for any rockn roll greatness
@pyrogian
@pyrogian 8 ай бұрын
doors one of my fav bands thx for doing them doug
@kevanbodsworth9868
@kevanbodsworth9868 8 ай бұрын
A great album ,,A benchmark in rock
@thomasshreve750
@thomasshreve750 8 ай бұрын
One of the best songs during the classic rock era.
@stevesharp6138
@stevesharp6138 8 ай бұрын
A good read , No one gets out alive biography of Jim M. I couldn’t put it down think I read it in 3 days .
@otrotipo_otro
@otrotipo_otro 8 ай бұрын
please listen to the whole thing! the ghost song, featured on an american prayer album gathers jim's poetry with the groovy vibes the rest of the band was giving at the time, surely another great track to listen to!
@new_mercury5367
@new_mercury5367 6 ай бұрын
This is one of my favourite songs. Not just Doors songs this is one of my desert island tracks.
@btthpod
@btthpod 8 ай бұрын
my favorite of theirs actually - love it - yeah with the beginning sound i've always pictured this entire song taking place during a night car ride - when that "drivin' down your freeway" kicks in it's so good - i sent you an email awhile back about Break On Through - another one you'll probably like - great stuff as usual
@olavl8827
@olavl8827 8 ай бұрын
From the same album, Crawling King Snake, which is an old blues classic, is a super swampy, nasty & fiendishly erotic track. Or in other words, Jim Morrison at his best. Best not forget to partake of the devil's lettuce before listening, for full effect. To do the song all the justice perhaps listen to John Lee Hooker's 1949 rendition first, and then compare the two. You should be able to hear they're in the same tradition.
@rychefan1
@rychefan1 8 ай бұрын
Please do the entire album! It's a trip, for sure. ❤
@szqsk8
@szqsk8 3 ай бұрын
Greatest car driving song ever! 🤘 Sadly it’s hard to haul ass down the freeways here in LA because of the insane traffic.
@sigeberhtmercia767
@sigeberhtmercia767 8 ай бұрын
Great road trip song.
@ronparsons8786
@ronparsons8786 8 ай бұрын
My favorite Doors song and it's on my forever playlist
@davidjames8433
@davidjames8433 6 ай бұрын
Great Bass playing by Jerry Scheff who is the father of Jason Scheff the Bass player who played for Chicago for so many years after Pete Cetera left the band. LOVE this song!!! Great performance by everyone!!! This was their peak, and then they lost their MoJo Risin Man and were never the same!! Such a shame!! I have and love all of their albums!!
@shawnkilpatrickmusic
@shawnkilpatrickmusic 8 ай бұрын
Doug, as a Canadian I really appreciated your tribute to the late Robbie Robertson a few months back. A great candidate for an upcoming Masterpiece Friday would be “Chest Fever” by The Band, which is the magnum opus of the last surviving member of the group, the classically-trained master of the Lowrey organ, Garth Hudson. Hope you give it a listen soon!
@grahamnunn8998
@grahamnunn8998 8 ай бұрын
I played this in my band in the 90s and as a guitarist doubling keys, this really pushed me. Years later I was discussing this with the other guys and we all admitted that playing this gave us all a physical reaction that usually, ahem, required physical or visual stimulation! The Mojo rising section and going back to the original tempo was always very exciting.
@bobhayes1333
@bobhayes1333 7 ай бұрын
Jerry Scheff was Elvis' bass player, which intrigued Jim. Normally Ray played bass with his left hand. This was recorded in the Doors "workshop", with Jim sitting in the can, growling out the world's most gritty lyrics. This band was incomparable, unforgettable, and inimitable.
@Coowallsky
@Coowallsky Ай бұрын
Ray played keyboard bass in live venues. They used reall bass players on the LPs.
@kevinbarry3548
@kevinbarry3548 8 ай бұрын
I love this!
@gjb79ful
@gjb79ful 8 ай бұрын
Yes you gotta listen to the whole album, it's one of my favourites
@KennyCamaro2364
@KennyCamaro2364 8 ай бұрын
Mr. Mojo Rising is Jim Morrison. He rearranged the letters of his name to Mr Mojo Rising, Doug.
@MBP208
@MBP208 8 ай бұрын
🤯
@scottnicholson2954
@scottnicholson2954 8 ай бұрын
Anagram
@victorhugosanchez7057
@victorhugosanchez7057 7 ай бұрын
So where do you get the G
@MichaelBrown-x1q
@MichaelBrown-x1q 7 ай бұрын
Thank you Kenny for beating me to it!!! Because it is an awesome fact of the song that makes most people realize how clever Jim was!!!
@Coowallsky
@Coowallsky Ай бұрын
Doug talks about that in the video.
@Pugwash.
@Pugwash. 8 ай бұрын
Back in about 1991 I remember seeing The Doors at the cinema. It made me want to hear more.
@h2ofield
@h2ofield 8 ай бұрын
Devil's lettuce. LOL! You do good stuff, Doug, salutations!
@thabudmaster
@thabudmaster 8 ай бұрын
many bongs have been smoked whilst listening to this album! Go for it! :)
@kennyyoung4989
@kennyyoung4989 8 ай бұрын
My favourite 😍
@mrddcass6540
@mrddcass6540 7 ай бұрын
No greater disservice can be done to oneself that not listening to this album in full.
@scottmerkel1461
@scottmerkel1461 8 ай бұрын
Nice episode Doug ! I really enjoy your show. I am a subscriber and love your input and insight, which is usually spot on. Being a huge Doors fan forever I would be doing a great disservice to you and all the Doors fans around the globe if I did not Highly recommend to you checking out the Doors/Jim Morrison album called An American Prayer ! It's also available in book form as well. It's a wonderful collection of Jim's poetry and spoken word library. Cleverly, a few years after Jim's passing, the remaining Doors members created amazing music to accompany Jim's poetry that was found on tape. The result is an incredible album and a true ohmage to Morrisons' work from his bandmates and it sounds amazing !!! Please consider listening and/or reviewing this relatively unknown masterpiece !!! You will not be disappointed ! Thanks, Scott from Ct.
@freudsigmund72
@freudsigmund72 8 ай бұрын
a few years after the death of Jim Morrisson, the remaining members of the doors released the album An American prayer. With that album they used recordings of Jim Morrisson reading from his poetry. They simply added music to the melodical readings. My favourites from this ablum are the title track and the last track The Ghost song.
@carln6ckv8
@carln6ckv8 8 ай бұрын
Thank you
@JoeCruz-hs2yt
@JoeCruz-hs2yt 5 ай бұрын
good idea listen to the whole album real good !
@misha-jz4yx
@misha-jz4yx 5 ай бұрын
My fave Doors track. Greater than the sum of its parts, and its part are pretty damn good. Time travel, a time capsule. Captures a moment in time and takes you there. Such a vibe.
@MichaelBrown-x1q
@MichaelBrown-x1q 7 ай бұрын
The whole album is great!!!!
@jeremiahrose4681
@jeremiahrose4681 8 ай бұрын
great song, great album. love the Doors. This my favorite album of theirs. Billy Idol does a great cover of this.
@stoppropaganda2573
@stoppropaganda2573 8 ай бұрын
1971 was one of those years where music died for a while. Thankfully music is like a cat with nine lives. I lived it like many others, some who crawled under their beds in fear and others continued on to be taken in the next wave of death for music. I'm not crazy, history will prove me right. Every time those cold hands come a knocking ... we loose another group, almost like it's baked into the cake somehow, it has to happen and I hate it and miss the casualties ...
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