RDWorks Learning Lab 57 3D laser carving Is it possible

[@sergiocosta8925]

Good afternoon Mr. Russ! When you write a laser bible?!!! I will buy it for sure! Your work is so incredible that i dont have time to see all your great videos. Thanks a lot for all your stuff! Greetings from Portugal 👍👍👍

[@clivegriffiths3474]

Keep up the good work Russ. Much appreciated.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Clive Griffiths Hi Clive I'm certain there's some interesting stuff to come Regards Russ

[@powermate]

Thanks Russ,great video once again. My new tube arrived yesterday and my machine is really working well. Hope to post a video soon after some experimentation.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Bradley Mohr Hi Bradley I'm sure you will avoid all my mistakes. You will soon be flying!!! Best regards Russ

[@yorkshireman17]

Russ, What are the copper discs you used for your mirrors. I will; try to source some here in Perth Australia Trevor

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Trevor Harrington Hi Trevor I had lots of small 185mmx85mm rectangles of 1.5mm thick copper sheet That's enough for at least 30 discs. I had a look onebay.au for copper offcuts but they are stupid prices. for $10 to cover economy postage, I could send you one of mine. Just a thought if you cannot find a local source. The other important accident of fate was to use www.meguiars.co.uk/shop/nxt-metal-polysh I find out from some guys in USA that this is what's used by lots of the keen amateur astronomers who make and polish their own mirrors. It does a great job and here I am about 4 months after installing them and I have not yet had to take them out for a buff up. This is one discovery I am REALLY pleased with. If you want to be lazy you can get copper mirrors from China www.ebay.com.au/itm/HQ-K9-Si-Mo-Cu-Reflection-Mirror-for-CO2-Laser-Cutting-Engraving-Diam20-25-30mm-/230933149109?var=&hash=item35c4b035b5:m:mIDAZF4aFahBrCP1LJ89HgQ Good luck and best regards Russ

[@yorkshireman17]

Russ, Thanks for your offer very kind of you. I will give it a bash trying to source some here. regards Trevor

[@hosinoxcompany7500]

hi, i just paused the videos at the moment where u showed the ad of your machine ( the 256 colors separation for cutting ) i think 256 colors mean the number of layers u can add in the software to put diffrent parametres like black and red for cutting and engraving

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Interesting thought but your assumption is incorrect. The 256 colors refers to the grey scale. When you convert a colour picture to black (0) and white (255) the different colors that were in the original are are translated into shades of grey by mixing the black and white. There are 254 shades of grey between black and white giving a total greyscale range of 256 colors. You will note that when you import a picture into RDWorks it automatically defines it as a BMP. If you zoom in on the picture you will see the individual pixels are all different shades of grey..The software has mapped the coordinates of every pixel along with its shade of grey and depending on the max min power parameters that you set, if you set the OUTPUT DIRECT switch on, it will look at the power range you have selected say 10% min and 40% max and make the following simple calculation. (40-10)/256 =0.117% power for each greyscale increment.. As is have already mentioned, the machine has a complete map of your picture in its memory and so can send a power requirement to the tube for EACH pixel. It may sound unbelievable but this cheapo machine is capable of this incredible task. That is how it can perform 3D engraving. More power for the darker shades means a deeper cut.. I hope this answers your question. Best wishes Russ

[@faizvalli3480]

Hi, is it absolutely necessary to have an auxiliary rotary device, to achieve the carved effect on wood?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Faiz There are two mains sorts of engraving. One is constant depth engraving, like the sort of thing you see on a rubber stamp. You could call that 3D engraving but its not proper 3D cutting. The second sort is proper 3D engraving as shown in this video. See also kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGbGenmufNqSZ8k Rotary engraving is for engraving cylindrical objects. It is something completely different and does require a special rotary attachment. There are two basic types of rotary engraver, the chuck type and the wheel type. Both have their specific advantages and disadvantages. Best wishes Russ

[@faizvalli3480]

Thank you so much I really appreciate your reply, so what your saying that no rotary device is required to achieve a carved out effect on a flat wooden surface, I just needed to make the distinction because your own machine does indeed have an auxiliary rotary device. Also could you tell me if your laser pointer moves up and down to achieve carving, or is it simply changes in power that allow the "rounded edge" effect, I was previously under the impression that Rdworks did not recognize different shades where the progression of grayscale is from lighter to darker, or vice versa, and where no distinct lines or curves were "closed" objects

[@SarbarMultimedia]

There are two types of graphics, vector and bitmap. RDWorks can work with both. With vector graphics RDWorks can either SCAN closed objects at a constant power (not 3D engraving) or use the vector lines as CUT paths. With bitmap images (jpg photos etc) RDWorks can decide on the grey level of EVERY pixel and change the scanning output power of the laser whilst it is scanning to produce a variable depth cut. see how all this takes place in kzbin.info?o=U&video_id=J0KEg5X6wlA Best wishes Russ

[@faizvalli3480]

Thank you Russ ,, I had thought that this was still uncharted territory on rdworks and these chinese laser machines, as no other sources on the net can give the information you have provided. Thank you so much you have really helped me step up my designing and engraving to the next level.

[@3DsbsMx]

I had the best results using Photograv (dotted image 76-300 dpi) and engraving at fast speeds and high power (400 -500 speed, 70 power), or else low speed low power (100 speed 25-30 power), almost same results but double the time. Grayscale not giving me good results, I can provide a link so you can try the software if you like, sorry for the bad english.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+3DsbsMx Hi Thanks a lot for your input I will try your settings when I get to explore dot graphics. I think there is quite a lot of things to learn about the grey scale. It is a difficult subject that is shrouded in mystery. Those that can do it, don't seem willing to say how. I have already dabbled with dithered graphics in some of my early experiments but they were mainly to explore the very basic aspects of the Bitmap Handle. That is a whole new part of engraving that will cover in future sessions. Best regards Russ

[@3DsbsMx]

+SarbarMultimedia looking forward to see the outcome of the experiments btw my machine is pretty much identical but the laser tube is 50w. I'll upload some pictures of the engravings using Photograv.

[@3DsbsMx]

+SarbarMultimedia Here: drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1hhlO4h6dM3aXZORW9tQ3VHckk&usp=drive_web Example photos and there's the software in case you want to give it a try.

[@tobiasbrinke7148]

Hi Russ, as a young engineer and potential buyer of a machine, I've been following and enjoying your series quite a lot! Though this might be quite late: I was thinking of maybe trying a negative engraving on the image? It seems to me, as if the image might look a lot better if you inverted black and white before the engraving process.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Tobias If you imagine the 3D object as a hill on an ordnance survey map. you can almost see the shape of the hill from its CONTOUR LINES.. In 3D engraving it's the same as those contour lines where there are 256 contours starting at black and finishing at white. The surface of your material is white and the deepest cut will be produced by black in your image. What you then do is actually set the power of your beam to two levels (max and min) The software decodes your picture into the 256 colours and the controller then outputs one of 256 powers to match the colour in the picture. However it is the power between max and min that is actually divided into 256 different output levels and during each scan the power level (0 to 255) is matched up with the contour colours ( 0 to 255) encountered during that scan. The first thing you must realize is a photograph will not produce a correct 3D image,, yes it will obey the greyscale engraving rules and match power levels to colour and produce a bumpy surface but it will not be a proper 3D relif carving. Making the picture into a negative will just make those bumps the opposite way. Take a look at www.google.co.uk/search?q=3d+laser+engraving+files&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNooCakcjVAhXoCcAKHVYECuwQsAQIUg&biw=1920&bih=990 and you will see lots of ghostly looking images that are used to produce this sort of 3 D carving and you will see that they look nothing like photographs (positive or negative). I have tried to produce my own simple pyramid shapes with graduated fills but failed miserably. Also take a look at then Kerns website for a better explanation. It is a fascinating subject. Best wishes Russ

[@sotirisg7705]

Hi Russ, great video again. For your next experiments may I suggest you try also vector engraving reliefs using the laser beam in varying depth paths like a CNC mill cutter. It's probably more work to produce the images but the results could be cleaner and maybe smoother (and faster). Also for raster engraving you could try using several speedy passes as laser makers suggest (Epilog p.e)

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+SotirisG Hi I'm sure I'm only just scratching the surface of this subject and I have some experiments I want to do for the next session.I also have received some links from a couple of guys with specially prepared images for 3D laser carving. Having proved that the machine is capable of responding to multiple shades of grey, and also demonstrated that you cant just take a photo and expect to get a meaningful result, the plan is to develop some simple graphics that explains the manner in which this use of grey scale must be exploited. I think you are suggesting creating a continuous line contour map of a 3d surface. Let me ask you as a CNC man, if I gave you a 0.1 mm cutter and asked you to do it on your mill, what would be your reaction? Dont take that as a snub or criticism it was just a way of imagining the immensity of the task. I certainly don't have any 3 D profiling software to apply to the problem I have a bigger problem that I am noticing and that is some pattern of lines developing at 90 degrees to my scan lines. The same pattern exists when I speed the traverse rate and also when I defocus. Its almost as though I'm seeing stepper motor steps. Strange, because this is going to affect the finished quality of any work I do. Thanks for your input Sincere regards Russ

[@sotirisg7705]

+SarbarMultimedia Yes, although the laser has no actual cutting to do and just slides over as in raster engraving, at 0.1mm this process wouldn't be practical for large projects. But you could try a simple image with a small number of gradient steps to check these patterns you have in raster. You don't need 3d software or gcode, just some simple vector shapes (in CDraw or AI) contour filled with different colors for different power levels. E.g. design 10 concentric circles and fill each one with a different colour 0.1mm contour fill, or trim a cross hatch pattern around it. The depth would come from power levels, not z passes. p.s. there are some videos on yt for vector engraving with cheap chinese lasers. With a defocused beam and wider line passes results could be better than raster engraving.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+SotirisG Thanks for that information. I'll hunt around YT to see if I can find them. Russ

[@Runner50783]

Great video once again. I think achieving a realistic looking image will dependent mostly on the picture been used. Probably testing with a simple image such as a sphere and the applying different shading to it it may get you closer tame engraving

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Abraham Saenz Hi Abraham Now that would be something special if I could carve a SPHERE. Sorry, I jest. You must be psychic because my plan is to develop simple shapes to prove/show how the principle works because as I said in the video, you cant just take any old picture and get an acceptable 3D results. Now that we have proved the machine has ability to deal with grey scale we have to find ways to exploit it. A couple of guys have been kind enough to send me links to prepared drawings ready for "carving". I foresee the next session as getting interesting. Best regards Russ

[@thenar]

Russel, I enjoy your presentations, but I think you've tugged us astray here. The purpose of the gray engrave 256 is not to reproduce ordinary photographs. It's to employ Zdepth images which accurately trigger the proper power to literally carve the wood or other material in the round. One can google for z-depth images...they have several names...they look sort of blurry with the highest parts in white and the deepest parts in black, Clearly, it would be impossible to undercut with the laser, but you can create some remarkably attractive 3D mandalas. One can also carve complex panels the look hand carved. The secret is knowing how to clean off the burn without damaging the more delicate parts of the carving. This too can be googled.

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Peter I now have the benefit of hindsight and understand your comment. However, you must remember that this is a documentation of my learning journey and not a tutorial. Here I am naively taking my first exploratory steps into 3D engraving. My progress from stumbling to full understanding can be followed in sessions 58, 110, 111, 126 and 127. As you will see ,not only was it and understanding of the special picture requirements (photos are not suitable )It was necessary to understand the mechaism of wood burning and the effect of non-linearity of the power output, but also the way in which the machine is working to deliver the rapidly changing power requirement. Best wishes Russ

[@thenar]

Good attitude, Russel. We are learning with you. I should have added that the grayscale levels between black and white determine the power applied to the laser tube.

[@russsadler3471]

@@thenar Hi Peter As I have discovered. Yes, the power changes almost instantaneously with gray levels BUT if you select white 255 that the tube will stutter because it tries to switch off and then switch back on. Never use 255 in your images. Best wishes Russ

[@SamChaneyProductions]

Very cool stuff. I would invert the image first so that the background gets cut and the subject (the dog) is raised

[@SarbarMultimedia]

Hi Sam You must never lose sight of what I am documenting in these videos is MY learning journey with this machine and the laser technology. At this point I was pretty naive about what this machine could really do and was keen to run before I had learnt to walk. I eventually got to grips with 3D engraving a lot later on after I had acquired more knowledge about the many interlinked intricacies of the software, the laser technology and how light energy affects materials, the way lenses work and how to drive the machine in a greyscale manner to vary the power for every pixel. see kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGbGenmufNqSZ8k I have also now fitted a 30 watt RF tube to one of my machines to see how RF technology differs from normal glass tube technology. Here is 3D engraving with that machine kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqHGgKF5pbyrps0 Best wishes Russ

[@robertomosca4405]

Complimenti per i vostri video..sono di grande aiuto! Per favore mi sa dire come cambiare la lingua del menù della macchina..da cinese ad inglese? Abbiamo la stessa ed identica macchina solo che a me il menù e in cinese come mai?

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+Roberto Mosca Ciao Roberto Ecco un piccolo video mi sono imbattuto di recente per rispondere alla tua domanda In bocca al lupo Russ kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3eWaKOYgZebptk

[@robertomosca4405]

+SarbarMultimedia Grazie mille sign.Russ!! Oggi è difficile trovare persone disponibili come voi!!grazie ancora!

[@2020visionofrochesterhills]

Your awesome!

[@russsadler3471]

Hi David In retrospect , not that awesome I'm afraid to say. This was my first foray into 3D engraving and I was very pleased to find that the machine could do ANYTHING 3D. As you follow on through my journey you will find that my next attempt at the problem a few months on shows that the machine is capable of 256 grey level engraving but that you will never achieve proper 3D profiles unless you have specially prepared bit maps where the greys follow what on a survey map would be contour lines. The pictures look really strange but they do work well.. Even further on ao get my oscilloscope into action and look at the signals that are producing the grey scale [power variations. Even 18 months on I am still not finished with the subject because it still holds secrets which I personally need to understand. There are many discoveries about how the machine works that will eventally allow me to formulate some rules for 3D engraving. All best wishes Russ take a look here www.google.co.uk/search?q=3D+engraving+bitmaps&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CfrxiPq5CZcIIjgfFciFIwJ489kuKan6MRvK94-ks0wQMhhMTOVjEHZGTkTtLytKhADI1EcNlB6HvJalMkwuU5DxpCoSCR8VyIUjAnjzEf4Z1F-0bslrKhIJ2S4pqfoxG8oRHvXBKKP6og4qEgn3j6SzTBAyGBEOLxrAUvIFrSoSCUxM5WMQdkZOEdtUu7L9KU8jKhIJRO0vK0qEAMgRe9pG0lmkZXoqEgnURw2UHoe8lhF3Bs0O4BlKKioSCaUyTC5TkPGkEXc8_1lY2YdXY&tbo=u&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjZjpmMxN_XAhWE1RQKHRFXD1AQ9C8IHw&biw=1249&bih=598&dpr=1.5

[@raspberrypiploy771]

Brilliant videos and you are easy to listen to

[@volkmarhoppe7560]

thanks for that. if you want to test with another motive: i rendered out a real z-depth image from my 3d-program. i did it on POM. but i think my laser is a bit weak for greater depth. www.dropbox.com/s/9el2uhnpej4fw6f/moon_verne05.jpg?dl=0

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+volkmar hoppe Hi Volkmar Thanks for that amazing image. I'm already planning my next video about the principles of creating a 3 D greyscale image. As I proved in my last video, you cant just take a grey scale photo and hope to get a sensible result. It has to be a specially prepared picture where the shades of grey are a seamless analogue of a contour map. I have no sophisticated software for doing this . What software did you use to achieve your picture? Can I use this picture in my next session? I have several links to pre-prepared pictures that others have sent me and they (along with yours) will all be good demonstration pieces. Thanks again Best regards Russ

[@volkmarhoppe7560]

+SarbarMultimedia hi i am using cinema 4d. but rendering a z-depth should not be a problem for other 3d software. i didnt do the sculpting of the moon, thats just a samplefile that comes with c4d studio. after setting the proper greyscale range and after some tests i had to adjust the rendered z-depth quite a bit in photoshop. more contrast especially in the light tones was important. please go ahead and use it if you like. i am curious about your results.

[@mateusz1945]

here: drive.google.com/file/d/0B4KOVYCG-x-6WHVUWHpLN3l4c3hiZFcyZG9oeG91WVZyYks4/view do this graphic , it will be easy to compare with other machines because everyone is engraving this picture

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+mateusz1945 The question is are they doing it successfully with clunky little Chinese Dragons or is this something just for the serious Trotec, Kern and Epilog type machines. I have already planned to investigate the principles involved with this type of engraving in my next session because although demonstrating the principle of 3D is possible, you can't just convert any old picture. It has to be a carefully worked graphic to get the right effect. I can see many of the aspects I'm planning in the graphic link. Thanks for that, I will experiment with it to see what's possible but when I look at all my cuts I see very definite patterns in it and I haven't yet worked out what's causing it other than its the acceleration and deceleration steps for every step of the motor. That's going to make it very difficult to get a nice cut. I can smooth it a bit by dropping the table but it's still there. Increasing speed doesn't fix it either. An interesting problem before I've even started !!! Thanks again for the graphic Russ

[@mateusz1945]

+SarbarMultimedia well i did this eagle on my chinese laser with same electronics as yours and it looked pretty damn similar to Epilog's results. Only difference was i think i did it with 100w tube. I agree it has to be prepared picture. i found it best to make 3d model of your project and then convert it to grayscale using artcam. I dont really know how to do convert pictures, photoshop skills would be needed. I think our machines are compensating for acceleration and deceleration , all i did is drop that picture in rd works set correct min/ max power and speed and was preety much it.

[@mateusz1945]

+mateusz1945 here are my results: drive.google.com/file/d/0B4KOVYCG-x-6MHVPNmRJQ2lmZ0U/view?usp=sharing each emblem is 4 inches wide , wood is maple

[@SarbarMultimedia]

+mateusz1945 That looks pretty good, UK has lots of wood but not maple, I suspect that will be expensive. I may try it with bamboo. I do note that your deep cuts are also showing the brick-like coarse canvas pattern. Any ideas? How linear is your tube output because that will have an effect on how the greyscale is treated Many thanks Russ

[@mateusz1945]

+SarbarMultimedia i did 8 bit grayscale test and it did look like my output is fairly linear. I guess i could find better settings to make it look even better. I dont really know what causes canvas pattern... Going out of focus? it is pretty shallow cut. I dont know