Reacting to your CONTROVERSIAL Theatre Opinions

Being as subjective as it is, sometimes you may have a theatre opinion that diverges from the group consensus. Today, I champion your voice by reacting to your most controversial theatre opinions.
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[@TheatreIzzy]

My issue with jukebox musicals is that it feels more often than not producers just throw popular songs into a mediocre plot. I loved Cruel Intentions recently and I felt that worked well because the plot was already there for it to bounce off. But so many others don't do this and the plot feels very forced around the songs or the songs don't fit the plot well. So for this reaosn it's rare that I'd go watch one as honestly they feel like cash grabs targeting people who like certain music with minimal effort into actually making a good show (p.s. great video, you articulate yourself very well)

[@ectocoolerkeg]

I kinda see where the Avenue Q person is coming from - it is inherently ridiculous (affectionate) and that's probably boosted to a delightful extreme when performed by people who aren't as polished. Would love to see an amateur production of it.

[@elisemw5]

Such an amazing video Ellie! You answered two of my opinions (concerts and celebrity casting) - you're very good at getting the nuance of people's points and understanding where they're coming from. Keep it up!

[@chloethorn7137]

I get what you’re saying about moving shows to the west end soon and them having to close. I was so sad when time travellers wife closed early and other examples of the same nature. The smaller theatres should always prioritise these shows so that they don’t go big and then have to go home :(

[@rburns5495]

Absolutely want more! Lots to ponder here and fascinating to hear opinions shared and discussed. Brilliant video!

[@missdonutaltaccount1380]

The only piece of theatre nonsense that has NOTHING to do with real life is Mamma Mia! - Novello Theatre

[@amitmeir8109]

20:00 Interestingly, intervals were NOT created originally for the audience. They come from the time when straight, realistic plays which took place in one location. The intervals were created to let playwrights add a second location for the play or give them the opportunity to add a time jump to the play

[@jenicat55]

Re wicked - the musical is so "teen drama" compared to the book it is based on. The book is actually a life story of Elphba and her descent into political radicalism - *spoilers* She joins the Animal rights group and events that take days in the musical take years in the book - she gets so involved she ends up outside the government building preparing to blow it up... It's so in-depth and an astounding book . I strongly recommend it to everyone - but at this point it's almost a completely separate thing to the musical.

[@Daae07_]

Hiya!! I made the Avenue Q opinion and I'd like to first clarify that I am NOT suggesting we start putting it into schools 😅😅 The reason I think that it should be kept to amateur productions only is because by doing so would prevent big producers such as Cameron Mackintosh picking it up and putting it into big west end houses such as the Noel Coward when it first premiered in the UK - I think that, as a show, it deserves that kind of 'rough-ness' that you'd get with an amateur production, as opposed to the incredibly refined production you'd get anywhere else. Furthermore, I believe doing so would keep it in smaller black-box venues or, even better, some of the more bizarre houses that one could only find at, for example, the Edinburgh Fringe festival, especially since, as a show, it presents itself as much more naturalistic and down-to-earth than most musicals (once you get past the puppets) - I hope that's clearer!

[@EllieTalksTheatre]

To be fair, we've only really seen it tour as of recently beyond the one night anniversary concert that's coming up. I doubt it'll come back to the West End but I'm more than happy for it to tour again professionally.

[@TheatreIzzy]

I saw Mincemeat for the first time recently and I was incredible disappointed. Now this could come from my expectations being too high because so many people had said just how amazing it was but I felt very meh about it, thought it would be funnier and thought the plot would be better. I was honestly a little upset at how let down I felt, I guess I'd set myself to really be amazed 😢

[@joshoboy_3535]

Hiya! Heathers Opinion 2 here 😌 yes I do agree with you it’s more to do with the other palace being used as a Southwark playhouse sort of performance space which I feel was gatekeeping a lot of smaller uk shows for the time it was there I just think with the way it was selling it should of just moved to a bigger theatre like when it was at the Haymarket and have an open ended run etc etc because the smaller creators are suffering from that space being used. When Heathers was announced for @sohoplace it annoyed me more for the same reason it went to WINDSOR did it need another London run? And realistically it couldn’t of been cheap to adapt that theatre to be proscenium-esk. In summary it’s not really the show it’s self it’s just gained a stigma around it after how it was handled (though I do also think tiktok ruined it at the same time 😌)

[@EllieTalksTheatre]

Just a few counter arguments here: The @sohoplace run was most likely a gap filler from a show that didn't extend, to be fair. I think that theatre is actually built to be flexible with staging so I don't think it would have been that expensive especially for a gap filler show. And I know a lot of people wouldn't be willing to travel to Windsor but would travel to Tottenham Court Road to see Heathers (me, I'm people 😂) It is very funny though that the Heathers tour has three London dates with West End, Windsor and Richmond all happening this year. That feels like weird scheduling lol.

[@joshoboy_3535]

⁠​⁠@@EllieTalksTheatrecounter argument to your counter argument Heathers ran for 6 weeks @sohoplace which is the exact same length that Babies ran at the other palace for so realistically any new show could of also been in there and you saying it wouldn’t of been that expensive to change the staging just backs that point up imo 😭 The travel thing is fair enough tho 😭

[@EllieTalksTheatre]

Hypothetically yes any show could have ran there but it was a last second move so it needed to be something that was already on its feet. This is why 2:22 is constantly coming back to London - as it's a proven successful show that can easily mount itself into multiple theaters. It's a lot of assuming but the logic of having Heathers there makes sense when you look it at through that lens even if you don't really love the oversaturation of it, which is completely and utterly valid.

[@cedgson91]

Ouch on the first one Wicked is one of my comfort shows Heathers was ok. Glad I watched it but found it slightly triggering. Not a fan personally but understand the hype Six is a musical! I love it so much ❤ The amount of bootlegs atm esp. for above musical is incredibly annoying and I don’t think they should exist tbh

[@anony-missy]

Here is my controversial opinion. Jane Seymour’s plot line in Six and the song that goes with it (Heart of Stone) are kind of a mess. The way Jane’s plot line is initially framed, it seems like it’s meant to centre around her not being able to be there for her son due to her tragic death. However, Heart of Stone itself only touches on that idea a bit at the end, and is much more about Jane’s strength in enduring Henry’s behaviour towards her. Behaviour which, when you listen to the lyrics, is clearly abusive. If necessary, here are some examples of lyrics that illustrate the unhealthy/abusive relationship: Henry has a “good heart” but it “changes” - Jane is expressing and rationalizing how Henry is sometimes kind, but can turn on her. Jane promises to “withstand any blaze” directed at her from Henry - the word blaze is being used to characterize Henry’s outbursts as angry in nature. The chorus as a whole but especially “You can build me up, you can tear me down” and “You can do your best, but I’ll stand the test” - this again clearly underlines how Henry’s behaviour to Jane fluctuates and he has periods of intentionally hurting her which she just endures. Jane says “Without my son your love could disappear” but she doesn’t care because her “love will still be here” - his love is conditional upon her providing him with what he wants from her ie a son, yet she can’t imagine not loving him. I think it’s hard to deny the type of relationship that is being described here. The picture Heart of Stone paints is that of a wife who loves her husband for his good side, but is also clearly lashed out at and treated incredibly poorly by him at times which she has just decided to accept and endure. That’s an abusive relationship. Yet, the rest of the musical and especially the “happy ending” resolution for Jane doesn’t really acknowledge this abuse at all. Instead the ending just has her not die and go on to have more children with Henry (“The Tudor Von Trapps/Royaling Stones” band). It makes the whole plot line feel incredibly unsatisfying to me and leaves a sour taste in my mouth. If the creative team wanted to introduce the idea of Henry being abusive to Jane, they should have dealt with it instead of sweeping it under the rug. If they didn’t want it to read as abuse, they shouldn’t have used language that implies abuse. As it is, I feel like they didn’t know what they wanted to do with Jane’s storyline. If they wanted it to be about her love for her son, there are better ways to establish that love other than her being willing to take abuse from that son’s father. To me it seems kind of ill considered to frame someone enduring abuse from their romantic partner as an ultimate expression of strength and love and leave it at that. That’s a very dangerous situation for someone to be and just glossing over the serious outcomes that can result from continuing to take the abuse rubs me the wrong way. In my opinion the fantasy ending should have been something like Jane getting herself and Edward far away from Henry. Or at least there should have been some indication they’re no longer being abused. But as it is we have nothing and it just leaves the whole thing feeling disjointed and pointless at best and unsafe and off putting at worst.

[@sassycatz4470]

I was just in New York seeing a couple of shows. The two plays I saw only had 15 minute intermissions. Definitely not enough time or everyone who wanted to to get to the restroom, especially since, for one of the plays, there was only one restroom per gender for the whole theater. Additionally, the first part of that play was 1 hour and 45 minutes, so you needed that break, desperately. One thing that factors into this is so many theaters cram people in. The seats are narrow, the legroom is minimal and not everyone - including myself - is skinny or small, so it's very uncomfortable sitting in such tight surroundings for such a long period of time. During the one play, my leg was literally cramping. Fortunately for the second play I saw, I had an aisle seat, the person next to me was a very slim girl and they had an additional set of restrooms for the upper level, so all was well.

[@emms232]

I agree with the opinion about Heathers to cerain extent. It's a good musical, but I don't understand why they first had to put it into The Other Palace which is an ideal and commonly used space for new musicals as you mentioned and then another production was put into @sohoplace which is the only theatre on the West End which is accesible for the actors using mobility aids (which is ridiculous given the fact it's 2024). I'm sure its fans would find it anywhere in London. As you mentioned the new musicals closing because they are forced to go to theatres which are too big for them it made me think of Time Traveller's Wife which was not a bad musical at all, but putting it to Apollo Theatre which is massive for a show like that led to its early closing. As for my controversial theatre opinion, I think alcohol should not be sold in the theatre because drunk audience lead to some very unhinged horror stories regarding theatre etiquette.

[@EMM_84]

We love a sequel! This is probably going to be a long comment. This video just shows what I love about theatre and how there is something for everyone. Even the most terrible show will have some redeeming quality to it - well sung, consistent acting, great choreo, costumes, lighting etc. Shows like Avenue Q, Rent Rocky Horror or Little shop need to have some grit to them. Sometimes professional productions are almost too polished. I love when small things go wrong on stage. You really get to see how well the actors pivot and work around it. I also just love to see actors have a genuine moment of connection with one another. It just makes me appreciate the show more. In response to the opinion about Les Mis and Phantom, ( Lion King, Wicked, Hamilton) - theyve been around a long time for sure. Long time theatre fans can often get fatigued by them for sure. They are also often kids or hesitant peoples gateway show into musicals. They are so well known to people in general at this point that people may feel less intimidated by them if they are a first time show goer. They have big production value that often have a lasting impression.

[@angelitaroman508]

my controversial theater opinion: beetlejuice the musical is clearly superior and no one can change my mind

[@AthynVixen]

YES AMEN to the person with guts enough to say like me Operation Mincemeat isnt that funny or that good tbh. and it iS my style of comedy usually.I think its a fringe show that has outgrown itself. If I'd seen it at Southwark I think I'd have probably enjoyed it more. Hugely overhyped

[@bookwyrm8181]

THIS is how I found out there’s a new Percy Jackson musical coming out???

[@EllieTalksTheatre]

Yes! It's a non-replica production of the Broadway version. But let's be honest, isn't this the best way to find out theatre news? 😂

[@bookwyrm8181]

@@EllieTalksTheatre Different songs, cast, set?

[@EllieTalksTheatre]

It's not a transfer of the version that was Off-Broadway but it is still that musical. So new direction, staging, cast, set etc but the same book and songs.

[@bookwyrm8181]

@@EllieTalksTheatre oh interesting, I really like the og cast on the recording so I hope I’ll like the new one

[@elliemorgan8670]

OK here it goes folks. I like the Broadway version of Hadestown best. That’s not particularly controversial. But now we get into the big stuff. I think that well rent revolutionized be Roxanne on Broadway, story wise. It could’ve been a lot better. They focused on trust fund babies who don’t know what real hardship and poverty is like and our selfish and entitled and really should pay their rent and if they’re going to rage against the machine, they should rage against the actual healthcare system , that’s put them in this position. Not their landlord. I think it’s wrong that we’re rooting for them because starving artist makes better art is a harmful myth, and they’re a better musicals that explore the HIV crisis like falsettos. Somebody said that was a queer musical written for people and I agree. I think it doesn’t do anything to address the actual, nature of the aids crisis. I meant that it’s musical written about gay characters for straight people. Although I apologize for any typos, I’m blind so I speak into my phone and it doesn’t always get what I say correct and for some reason, comments are hard to edit. I’ll OK here we go. I’m bringing up even bigger guns. The songs and dear Evan Hansen out of contents are good. I went over the script in depth in class on musical theater, and I think as a story it’s pretty terrible. Evan starts back at square one which in my mind means that there are very few consequences for what happens because he should’ve ended up more off than he was because he created this horrible life. Just because Evan is quiet kid doesn’t mean he’s a good kid that we should feel sympathy for. And mean entire act one finale that’s been used in mental health campaign throughout the world now, is a complete lie. That’s not who Connor was. Connor is a construct that Evan created. We don’t know the real Connor. So nobody is being found. It’s just a lie. And every time I think about it, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It’s not a story about respecting mental health struggles. It’s a story about a kid who lies to a family in their most vulnerable time and we’re supposed to sympathize with that kid just because he struggled with anxiety and depression himself. You can still struggle with those things and be a bad person. I speak from experience. Come from away or great comments to the absolutely won the Tony that year. OK now I’ll publish this and get roasted. If only for my period spelling mistakes and things that make no sense. To clarify, I was trying to say that out of context, the songs are good and that rent revolutionized be rock on Broadway. I guess overall what I’m trying to say is that just because there is no representation doesn’t mean we should accept bad representation

[@lammieshipper]

controversial opinion but I the off west end + fringe is oftentimes better than west end. I have watched a lot of shows off west-end that are WAY better than some west end shows

[@AtsumuMiya123]

Controversial Opinion: Carrie Hope Fletcher and Alisa Davidson are both better as Veronica Sawyer then Barrett Wilbert Weed ever was

[@leegrace28]

agreed. mamma mia is a pass every time

[@moonlike19]

I like you Ellie 😊

[@Animal4life101]

Hiii

[@Animal4life101]

Do u like Shrek the musical

[@antonellamR2D2]

Does theatre have a mainstream? 😂

[@EllieTalksTheatre]

In the immortal words of RENT: "Is anyone in the mainstream?"

[@lammieshipper]

@@EllieTalksTheatre does anyone still wear a hat?