reading classic books to convince people I'm smart

[@frankwales]

"...I'm gonna pick up something fun and light, and I picked up 'Of Mice and Men'..." And my immediate reaction was: "oh no"

[@oliviapg]

I nearly buckled over laughing at that

[@GSBarlev]

@@frankwales did you read it in high school as well?

[@frankwales]

@@GSBarlev No, later -- we did 'Catcher in the Rye' as a contemporary novel in English class. But still...

[@Matt_The_Hugenot]

We did this book in the equivalent of 8th grade, talk about traumatizing.

[@misslayer999]

@@frankwales I LOVED Catcher in the Rye. I mean I still do, one of my all-time favorites. I've read it probably 20 times(till the book literally fell apart) starting when I was 10. My older sister had it for school, and left it laying on the kitchen table. Ever the book fanatic, I was eating cereal one day and picked it up. It left a huge impression on me. Id never read anything like it before. I read it probably five more times before I finally had it as required reading in 11th grade. Needless to say, I OWNED that book report lol.

[@Tailmonsterfriend]

Sooo... I love this series about books, because it encourages people to read and share their own thoughts about books, and that's great. Which is why I just want to give a little shout-out here to your local library. Yes, you have one. They're all over the place, and they're great. They're FULL of books! And you can check them out, for ZERO dollars. And they have librarians, who will help you find books. And if your life gets busy, they'll renew your books if you're late to dropping them off. Please support your local library. Thank you!

[@culwin]

"they'll renew your books if you're late to dropping them off." Well, they do that now, but before the pandemic they didn't... and I don't know if it's the case everywhere either... but yeah seems like most of them realized it was unnecessary to charge late fees the vast majority of the time

[@JH-pt6ih]

I don't have a local library. It sucks - not just no library, but no inter-library loans. That's what you get with living in nowhereland.

[@internetfox]

@@JH-pt6ih you have internet archive tho, which is sort of like a library. I feel u tho.

[@metallsnubben]

My university library even does _auto-renewal_ on books that aren't in high demand, which feels like a great recipe for making me forget books until I move towns or something lol

[@HITABikes]

Sometimes I keep books late on purpose just to pay the fee because I want to contribute to the library 😅

[@mcolville]

The Twilight Zone is HUGELY influenced by Bradbury. Both are fundamentally about the mid-20th century culture shock visited on a whole generation of farmers who went to war, went to the moon, grew up on farms, lived in cities. It's all about this wistful Americana stuff, often with a dark vibe to it.

[@LibertyMonk]

oh.

[@AnthonyLewis-zi4rh]

The fact that Matt Colville is an Angela Collier fan feels very extremely correct.

[@andy8041]

Having fun isn't hard--when you've got a library card!

[@CaptainDisillusion]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who likes The Master and Margarita 😞 But it hits different in Russian! My copy also came with A Young Doctor's Notebook, a series of his short stories about working as an inexperienced physician in a remote village. So miserable and surreal, it becomes funny.

[@acollieralso]

Based on the comments here I am the only one who didn't like it.

[@piotrwieckowski9607]

@@acollieralso I think it's normal you did not like it because you are not the target audience. The book is very much meant for a soviet block audience and is nonsensical without that cultural background

[@GWigWam]

I quite liked it. Seemed more of a critique of soviet systems and hierarchy than of their atheism specifically; but I'm probably missing something without the cultural context.

[@VirtuousSaint]

I just found out Bulgakov had worked as a gynecologist at some point, which gives another dimension to Preobrazhensky in The Heart of a Dog

[@kellywalker9827]

It's a great book !

[@IamPoob]

"Flowers for Algernon" A mouse and a dumb boy become smart through a new drug. It is written from the POV of the 'Forrest Gump' character.

[@acaryadasa]

Yes. That's a terrific book.

[@drmaybe7680]

Terribly sad.

[@pianiman]

Great read, but you can skip the novel and just read the original short story imo. The same impact, or moreso even because it still has all of the story's poignancy and emotional weight, but compressed into just a few pages.

[@mollymaybe]

"Two dudes who have rabbits." Oh, Angela. Yeah I bet that would have been a surprise.

[@chrisl6546]

funniest description of that book, evar.

[@mollymaybe]

@@chrisl6546 perfect answer to one of those describe a book incorrectly prompts

[@kenmc5690]

Re: Age of Innocence. I think I'd be nostalgic for the Gilded Age too, if I'd just lived through WWI and the 1918 pandemic.

[@SpacemanTheo]

That's the only problem with classics sometimes. You need to know the context of not only the time they're written, but the intended audience or at least why the author wrote it.

[@Tolstoy111]

@@SpacemanTheo Also she wasn't pushing nostalgia. She was being critical of the age.

[@emperorbailey]

I read a dozen 50 Shades books + The Iliad, so they all were like 300 years old, on average.

[@g_sk]

I only now realized how a lot of Master and Margarita could seem a lot less funny to anyone not from former USSR as a lot of it is satire of USSR things - communism, state-regulated art/religion. Anywhere else writing a strange book about Pontius Pilate would be "whatever, you do you", not an act of rebellion One of my all time favorites

[@ruthenwernervandevrede-van9374]

I was not born in the USSR but I thoroughly enjoyed Master and Margarita. Maybe because as European born in the seventies I know more about the history behind it? A true masterpiece humour and defiance. Shame Angela really missed the point about this one.

[@JH-pt6ih]

I was fortunate to have been made aware of the book by a former Soviet citizen that I got to discuss it with as I read it which I do think added to my reading of it.

[@arctic_haze]

Not solely in the Soviet Union but everywhere behind the Iron Curtain.

[@Paul-hl3lb]

By far the best book here… imo

[@jeanping9739]

I love Master and Margarita so much! I'm from California, not the former USSR

[@mcolville]

Oof East of Eden fucked me up.

[@andy8041]

Me too, buddy. Me too. It's my favorite book now.

[@fredbobberts5753]

Yah Rocky go

[@Amira_Phoenix]

I loved it enormously, especially the ending. Also, there's a line about Chinese ink paintings, and the white dude doesn't believe those exist 😂😂😂😂😂

[@Calypso694]

Just the name east of Eden gives me PTSD

[@Gamerpark555]

I find it strange that Pride and Prejudice seems to get a pass while Age of Innocence doesn't regarding rich people and their petty rich people problems. Pride and Prejudice is also about a bunch of rich people where the main financial insecurity isn't so much in becoming poor as much as it is becoming less rich. Yes, Age of Innocence did satirize Gilded Age culture heavily. The major sticking point of the book isn't really supposed to be that these are all terrible people (they aren't heroes, but I very much don't think they're that horrible), but that the culture in which they live in pressures them to make choices that are terrible for their lives that they can never undo and forever have to live with. I think the issue you might have had with it is that culture has moved so far past the 1870's and 1920's that it might not have resonated. People in 1920 would read it and go "Wow, people 50 years ago were so dumb and stupid and their culture didn't make any sense and was actively detrimental to people's lives." It's not that dissimilar to books now talking about how bad culture was in the 1950's or 60's, it's just that us in the 2020's resonate with that more because it's more relevant to us.

[@Broken_robot1986]

I hated both.

[@Tolstoy111]

P&P is a satire. And if those women don't find husbands they were staring poverty in the face. That's how inheritance laws worked there and then.

[@Tolstoy111]

@@Broken_robot1986 What did you dislike about P&P? It's so witty and charming. Jane Austen pretty much invented the modern novel as understand it.

[@aosidh]

"Cannery Row" is a really gorgeous Steinbeck book that is a lot less tragic! He describes the community of Monterey like critters in a tidal pool

[@RyanSmith-pf7ci]

When you start reading in that accent.... GOLD!

[@neilwilson5785]

I'm English and it made me feel very strange, in maybe a good way?

[@PhillipRhodes]

I would pay money for an audio book read in that accent.

[@rfreamon]

I'm just going to assume that was Dr Collier 's own Kentucky accent. Apologies if I'm wrong.

[@wkgmathguy218]

@@rfreamon I didn't notice she has an accent. Of course I'm from Kentucky myself...

[@silverharloe]

I was born in 1970 and remember my Saturday morning cartoons featuring Bugs Bunny who had a recurring obstacle character (no name given(*)) whose defining characteristic was that he was huge and strong and dumb and would just grab Bugs and hold him saying , "I will love him and pet him and name him George." Being less than 10 at the time, I had no idea what that was referencing, but I found it amusing later in life. (*) no name given that I remember in the show, but we all know now it would have been Lenny.

[@bookshelfhoney]

Ohhhhhhh that's what that's referencing?! Haha I never realized

[@timg6125]

I think it was the abominable snowman. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oIHHeZSEp5WCd7s

[@d3nza482]

Abominable Snowman is the character. You know... the Yeti. The episode is The Abominable Snow Rabbit.

[@albertqhumperdinck]

WHAT! WOW! Damn, thank you! I never read Steinbeck in highschool but I watch a ton of Bugs Bunny and you have opened my eyes.

[@ryandeklerk9553]

Steinbeck often uses women in his stories...awkwardly. A lot of the time they exist largely as objects for the male character's story or as symbols of the innocence or "good" of humanity

[@CF565]

This is an important point, that this was a career-long shortcoming of his work. While it's a bit of a copout, I think he's somewhat a product of male narrative conventions of the time which almost always trivialize/instrumentalize women- Steinbeck wasn't exactly doing avante-garde norm-shattering work, his work is fairly straightforward usually, he's mostly an exceptional storyteller and with a commanding sense of how to build emotionally resonate narratives. I think Curly's wife kinda works in some ways being one-dimensional, bc the work is thinner and more fable-like than his more sweeping epics, and she's presented as seen by a milieu of alienated men in a patriarchal society and economy who are denied the opportunity for full rich lives, as an object apart representing temptation, desire, fragility, precariousness, and the consequences of crossing class and social hierarchies.

[@deirdre108]

I agree-I never thought that Steinbeck (along with Hemingway) created believable female characters.

[@Broken_robot1986]

I hear men all the time refer to their wives as "their better half". Kinda the same thing I think.

[@guillll]

Well, he wrote Of Mice and Men in 1937. Women were not really seen as human beings by most people back then.

[@iancareyjazz]

If you'd like a short Steinbeck palate cleanser I recommend Cannery Row. Fun, good characters and setting (based on real people Steinbeck hung out with in those days, along with Joseph Campbell!)

[@paulm.8660]

My thoughts as well! Mack and the boys will forever live rent-free in my head

[@tarico4436]

I would add "The Wayward Bus" and "The Pearl" to your "Cannery Row" list. Those are my 3 favs from Steinbeck. They tell me I'm missing out on "East of Eden" and "The Grapes of Wrath" but oh well.

[@meesalikeu]

@@tarico4436yeah to the pearl 🎉

[@grammarpolice726]

Cannery Row needs to be followed by Sweet Thursday. The film conflated the two books badly, but they are such a beautiful pair.

[@jessiebunker-maxwell3914]

Once upon a time in 1973, my mom and I decided that we wanted to go to the movies and relax with a “fun and light” lowbrow western. We chose “High Plains Drifter”.

[@bookshelfhoney]

Oh yikes

[@sandracraft517]

My favorite ghost story!

[@arthurswanson3285]

I want to see it now. Was born in 73.

[@meesalikeu]

check out the beastie boys cover 🎉

[@gigabix]

Great movie for what it is. Hardly light fare, though.

[@GSBarlev]

At 11:59 you told us not to laugh, and I'm going to respect that. So instead I'll say I'm _so sorry_ for the gut-punch. I read _OM&M_ in high school, and even though I'm pretty sure I knew how it ended, I still felt utterly unprepared for actually reading it. Also: I'm sorry-I don't remember any sort of discussion of agency around Curly's wife, specifically. What I remember the theme being was that, in the dust bowl, there's not really right and wrong or blame or dreams, there's just _stuff that happens_ as people struggle to survive.

[@ReinReads]

If you haven’t read Emily Brontë’s Wuthering Heights know going it is like Despair not Pride & Prejudice. A great book about terrible people.

[@misterjaxon2559]

I worked in a used/rare bookstore for 20 years or so. I had a lot of time to read and could take any book I wanted as long as I remembered to return it. The classics tended to disappoint me. A common issue was that the problems and concerns discussed in the novel didn't translate very well into contemporary society. So, it wasn't the author's fault that I didn't like it, they apparently succeeded in entertaining their own contemporaries. Of the ones I did like, it wasn't the plot or drama as much as is was getting a real sense for some other place and time. I was also doing research and publishing technical articles at the time and sometimes I wanted to give my brain a rest and found myself enjoying science fiction pulps from the 30s and 40s. The writing, of course, was generally bad, but the authors knew how to pace the story and put in the occasional twist. As a way to pass the time when my brain was on idle, they were fun. Another thing I liked about working in a bookstore was that I could grab a book I had never heard of, sit down and read it. Now and then, it ended up being a pleasant surprise.

[@arthurswanson3285]

I'm having the same problem w Plato's Republic. Too much of it is about the basic assumption that there is a class of men who are above everyone else and how society is supposed to be structured around them and their aspirations. And everyone else are slaves. Fuggem.

[@shayneazimi7584]

Travels with Charley was my favorite Steinbeck if you want to read even more of him :)

[@getjaketospace]

I was supposed to read Grendel for a college class, but the week before I realized I had to switch to a different class. It's been on my shelf ever since. I'm definitely going to pick it up next

[@chrisl6546]

I don't think I've seen anybody recommend Catch-22 yet. It came out just before the US ramped up in Vietnam and the setting is in WWII, so it's usually considered an anti-war novel. It's really much more than that, and is a study of the absurdity of human behavior, particularly when large organizations with power structures are involved.

[@YuvalJacoby]

Huge +1 to this. Catch-22 is an absolute masterpiece and I recommend it to absolutely anyone. I can’t imagine someone not enjoying it

[@acaryadasa]

Great and important book, and also one of those extremely rare cases where I would also recommend the movie.

[@davidand36]

It's been 50 years since I read "Catch 22", but I still remember it being side-splittingly funny. A much less well-known piece by Heller that I also enjoyed is "Picture This".

[@brendansullivan3408]

Absolute classic. I'll read a 3rd time soon. Great suggestions Angela. I'm trying to read classics because I basically ignored almost all reading assignments in high school and only read the newspaper.

[@chrisl6546]

@@brendansullivan3408 I keep extra copies around to give away.

[@acaryadasa]

"The Legend of Curly's Wife"

[@aboynam3dblu3]

Sounds like the third City Slickers movie.

[@Amira_Phoenix]

That's a start

[@jessiebunker-maxwell3914]

Angela, I always enjoy your take on everything. You might like Ray Bradbury’s “Dandelion Wine” and Theodore Sturgeon’s “More Than Human”. Thank you for reminding me about “The Yellow Wallpaper”. Charlotte Gilman’s beliefs and life were very interesting and impressive especially for the time in which she lived.

[@jakebeach8308]

Between the two, I vote East of Eden - Grapes of Wrath is more of a slog. East of Eden is a masterpiece. It drags every now and then, but the generations of families, the interconnected stories, the moral questions - they're all terrific. It *is* a bit racist and misogynistic in parts, but beyond that, it is incredible.

[@Amira_Phoenix]

Both racism and misogyny there are a satire

[@jakebeach8308]

@@Amira_Phoenix to an extent, perhaps. The more egregious stuff. But we can't ignore that we're all products of our time. Things we class as racist and misogynistic now we're not considered as such then, so, while holding some belief or making some statement in his time may have been seen as being more forward thinking, it may still, by our standards, be racist or misogynistic. A good parallel - plenty of abolitionists, while being 100% against slavery, did not support letting black people (or women) vote, and even vocally considered black people as lesser than white, even if not deserving to be enslaved. Progressive for their time, absolutely, but still incredibly racist by today's terms.

[@AdamArcherPigeons]

9:38 ME TOO! Trying to decipher phonetic dialect when reading a book is the best way to break the suspension of disbelief and ruin the whole thing :(

[@camipco]

And Mark Twain's feels really racist. I mean, I get by the standards of his time he is radically anti-racist. And the fact he's writing black characters who have any depth at all is remarkable for a white dude at the time. But also, like, his blaccent is super uncomfortable to read.

[@Ken_Bad]

I feel the same way about written dialect. I’m currently reading Wuthering Heights, and the dialect passages are often incomprehensible. The combination of phonetic writing and mid-19th century northern English vocabulary is really hard to get through. The book is great, though, and some parts are a lot more fun than I expected!

[@jsdutky]

The Yellow Wallpaper is just spectacular. I read it in college (thirty years ago) and it made me a Charlotte Perkins Gillman fan for life.

[@AndPennyThought]

The Yellow Wallpaper always stuck out to me; it really united my love of psychology and literature and helped me see value in my struggle with mental health.

[@Bluefooted23]

I agree. Fascinating story, albeit terrifying.

[@throckmortensnivel2850]

When reading Mark Twain one must remember he was not a novelist, he was really a newspaper reporter. His novels are often kind of disjointed, with plot mechanics that can be a bit weird. Having said that, I enjoyed Puddenhead Wilson very much. Number one, it examined the fact of slave owners using their slaves for sex, an aspect that earned it some very bad reviews at the time. It was a subject that no one wrote of. It may also be the first murder mystery to use fingerprint evidence to convict a killer. Finally, it makes the point that the slaveowners son by his wife, who is raised as a slave, becomes like a slave in behaviour. At the end of the book, he is restored to his position as the plantation owner, but cannot deal with that situation. One bonus. Each chapter in the book is headed with an entry from "Puddenhead Wilson's diary". These chapter heading are pure Mark Twain, and worth the price of the book by themselves. As far as the dialect, there's not a lot of it in the book, and it is not there as a means of disparaging blacks. It is the way they spoke, and Twain would have been remiss if he had given them cultured English. Think of Pygmalion, where George Bermard Shaw gave Eliza a very thick cockney accent and speech. Without that, the play would have made no sense.

[@camipco]

You're right about the context and importance of Puddenhead, and I think Angela acknowledge that. It doesn't mean the book is enjoyable to read today, however. As for how people spoke, I wouldn't be so sure. There's a lot of interesting (if you're interested in that sort of thing) historical research on this, and at least to some degree, the black dialog of this time period is only partly based in fact, and is at least to some extent a creation of media and expectations. Look up the history of Truth's "ain't I a woman" speech, for example. Just like with white folks, there were a very wide variety of black dialects depending on where people were from geographically and in social class, and that tended to get flattened to a stereotype in no small part perpetuated by anti-slavery white writers like Twain and Harriet Beecher Stowe.

[@throckmortensnivel2850]

@@camipco The difference is that Mark Twain was born in Missouri, a slave state, while Harriet Beecher Stowe was born in Connecticut. Twain lived with slaves around him as he grew up. He would have been very familiar with the way they spoke. Twain was a person very concerned with that aspect of human speech. Read his "Fenimore Cooper's LIterary Offenses", especially rules 5, 6, and 7. Rule 5 begins: "They require that when the personages of a tale deal in conversation, the talk shall sound like human talk, and be talk such as human beings would be likely to talk in the given circumstances..." Twain wasn't just making it up. He was born to it, knew it well, and in fact Pudden' Head Wison is set in a slave state town that would have been very similar to where Twain was born and raised.

[@williamgeorge2045]

I don't know if you did this on purpose, but "here's how I felt and a little bit of why...." before actually talking any details was great. I've never read 'Of Mice and Men' and that pause right after you said "It is NOT about that" was a great opportunity for me to skip a few minutes ahead so I too can pick that one up with a clean slate lol

[@johanjarvinen]

If you haven't read them, I'd highly recommend either The Count of Monte Cristo or The Three Musketeers by Alexander Dumas. Try to find modern and unabridged translations. I'd say Monte Cristo is the better book, but it's also a bigger time commitment. Three Musketeers is still very good, I remember thinking of it as a popcorn action movie in book form when I was a kid, but that might say more about the pacing of the books I otherwise read at the time.

[@DaLiJeIOvoImeZauzeto]

Monte Cristo is great, highly recommended. Although I haven't read it since my teens, I read it twice back then and it's not a short read, some 1300 pages. It truly is the quintessential revenge and forgiveness story.

[@manumaster1990]

Those are actually good and classic books, yes.

[@HITABikes]

Those books are good but the OG versions are so long

[@Bluefooted23]

I loved Grendel! What a great book!

[@jamesdriscoll_tmp1515]

Of mice and men was a tale of a way of life ending badly for everybody. The world was gearing up into an age where engine power would replace horse power and man power. The men were a multitude of ag workers chasing fewer oportunites, as the technologies made them redundant. As trucks replaced horses, fewer acres were planted in horse fodder. Fewer men needed at harvest. The poor girl was roadkill in a race to the bottom.

[@matthewpinch2195]

I’d recommend “Siddhartha” by Herman Hesse if you haven’t read it already. Like ”Of Mice and Men,” it’s a short read that does an excellent job of developing interesting characters. I found it to be a really calm and beautiful meditation on finding meaning in life.

[@williamlyerly3114]

Siddhartha is indeed a classic. Got me to read a lot of Herman Hesse in the early ’70s

[@nedmerrill5705]

_Demian._

[@meesalikeu]

can’t love that one enough 🎉

[@acaryadasa]

I loved all of Hesse's books as a teen/young man, but I revisited them a few years ago as an old fart, and was significantly less impressed. It all seemed overly simplistic, even juvenile to me now.

[@rsm3t]

I liked Lolita, I liked Despair even better, but my favorite Nabokov book (and his most inventive, imo) is Pale Fire. I won't say anything more about it because much of the fun is in the discovery. I highly recommend it. I've only read a couple of books by Steinbeck. The Pearl was a high school assignment and I didn't care for it. Cannery Row is an underrated comic gem.

[@stikcler]

PALE FIRE!!! What an amazing book.

[@simonwatkins3236]

We should do Steinbeck, The Pearl is short. Is it good? Who cares we can fit it in to the time available. and it wont be too far over their heads. There are too many lesser works that survive because of attittudes like that.

[@windowdoog]

Just choked on my coffee over the Mice and Men selection. That’s honestly hilarious. 😂 I’d recommend the Pearl.

[@jacobmartin1100]

That's a gross mischaracterization of TM&M. One of the main points is that it's an examination of Soviet Russia. All those people going to "psychiatric hospitals" is intended as a euphemism for being disappeared by the security services, and psychiatry was notoriously weaponized by the Soviets and later the Eastern Bloc as a whole to silence political opposition and dissent. It runs a hot poker straight down the spine of the Soviet intellectual world by lampooning the writer's union and the response of the State to Woland and his antics, or the examination of how the author views christianity/the historical Jesus (with the fanatical misguided follower constructing his divinity during the novel-in-the-novel scenes), or the author's own struggles with art through The Master. Another thing to be careful about is which translation of it you get; one of them is more "sanitized" by censors compared to the other main one (I forget which), but the original manuscript was written long before the actual publication. Taking it as a surface-level "Satan punishes godless communists" is honestly a really shallow and disappointing takeaway.

[@minervaselysium137]

With Nobokov is like a codependent relationship where you keep reading because the writing is amazing but you question the characters so you stay for the ride. You cannot write horrible characters if your writing is "meh". So no. you dont need literary training to "get" Age of innocence. Also pretty sure Pulitzer price winners in that age was because of the world at that time so its hard that a book that old can resonate in 2024

[@potatopotatow]

Just release the Kentucky accent. We all know it’s just bubbling under the surface, trying to come out 😂

[@thomaskalinowski8851]

If you like entertainingly dumb characters I highly recommend P.G. Wodehouse's Jeeves stories.

[@AlanW]

"Good ahmens" - Sometimes she just throws something out like that and it blows my mind.

[@neilwilson5785]

Accents are cool

[@fredeisele1895]

Is that how they say it in Eastern Kentucky?

[@TheJlennick]

I thought she’d said “Good Almonds” for a hot second before my brain caught up. Pronunciation is an amazing and diverse thing!

[@pmcgee003]

It's so wrong. 😅

[@pmcgee003]

Grapes of Raffth 🙂

[@NikELbErGErBergel]

Read As I Lay Dying by Faulkner Warning it has some written out dialect but its so good

[@davidand36]

Yes, and "The Sound and the Fury".

[@orthochronicity6428]

I haven't read Of Mice and Men since high school, but I don't remember Curley's wife being blamed or anyone thinking that she was to blame. I remember the scene and it being extremely tragic, and us discussing the inevitability of George, Candy, and Lennie's fate. Curley's wife was kind of an extension of Curley, but to the extent that they were all in the same planter class and are the cause of the underlying issues that all of the farm hands face as workers (I remember Curley's wife being sympathetic and that played into the tragedy). The end broke me, and it is one of the biggest gut punches I've ever experienced. I guess it's good you didn't have it spoiled? If you liked Pride and Prejudice, I would definitely recommend Sense and Sensibility. It does require a bit more preparation as "sense" and "sensibility" have both changed their meaning since Austen wrote the book. The change in usage isn't too major, but it is enough of a change that I had to keep reminding myself of how the denotation (which the modern forward made me aware of, as well as the surrounding politics it satirizes or appear in the background that would have been obvious to readers back then).

[@lnterceptor00]

My favorite book by Twain is his "Innocents Abroad", a story about a pilgrimage trip he went on, and his story "A Horses Tale", mostly because of the scene with Soldier Boy and the bullfight. "Even if I were dying, I would come"

[@TerraSapien]

I love getting to see another woman’s perspective on classic literature. This is the kind of stuff that stands out to me as well, but tends to be minimized or overlooked in discussion/analysis of the work. Like your point about Curley’s wife - I don’t find that that tends to stand out to men, but as a woman it leaps out at me when tacit blame is pushed onto a woman for no good reason at all. It betrays some of the hidden misogyny of the author, of the era. And there are so many great authors/great books which contain elements like this, or of the r/menwritingwomen kind that range from annoying to making it impossible for me to continue..and I just don’t like to read reviews from people who are blind to that all entirely. I just think it deserves to be a part of the conversation. So to that end, I’m so glad you’re doing more of these, I am REALLY enjoying them. And I just became a Patron today, for how much I am loving and watching all of your content!

[@VeryUsMumblings]

There's a problem with reading classic books. I read Moby Dick twice. Once at the age of nineteen and then again later in life. When I read it the first time, I thought it was really great and, because it was a classic, I thought that I would talk about it with people for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, even though it's widely regarded as a classic, no one has read it. So no one wants to talk about it. So I didn't convince anyone that I was smart. If you want to talk about books, read DaVinci Code or something. They won't think you're smart, but they might still like you. Good video, though! 👍

[@perrydimes6915]

Lol, the horror of reading a classic and being excited to talk about it with everyone, only to realize people only talk about what they've heard about the book, because no one's actually read it, but everyone has an opinion on it

[@Mj323_bb]

I tried reading Moby Dick multiple times between high school and middle age, but gave up repeatedly. Finally, about my 5th or 6th attempt, I managed to properly engage and was able to then read/finish it. So I now understand why it is considered a great book .. but it is/was/remains a difficult read.

[@KitagumaIgen]

For the love of everything read something else, anything else then the da Vinci code. It is one of the stupidest books ever written

[@whatsupthom]

i’m a nuisance and reference moby dick with my coworkers all the time. nobody has quit yet over it!

[@JH-pt6ih]

"Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul; whenever I find myself involuntarily pausing before coffin warehouses, and bringing up the rear of every funeral I meet; and especially whenever my hypos get such an upper hand of me, that it requires a strong moral principle to prevent me from deliberately stepping into the street, and methodically knocking people’s hats off-then, I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can." Or, perhaps, high time to re-read Moby Dick!!

[@francisrodriguez2369]

i'm going to convince people i'm smart by listening to you talk about reading 12 classic books. thanks.

[@Symplegades]

Never read anything by Steinbeck that I didn't enjoy but 'Grapes of Wrath' was definitely the favorite. If you haven't, check out 'Catch 22' by Joseph Heller. You and Yossarian kind of strike me as kindred spirits.

[@olletsocse1123]

I mean, I’d listen if you narrated a book in a Southern accent. (Also a Kentuckian)

[@123370]

I was going to angry post about you hating age of innocence but then you figured out why :) Whoever told you it was like P&P was sooooo off the mark. the only similarity is that in both books, the women wear dresses.

[@MichaelMarquez-m3b]

A book that is an excellent piece of literature is "In Cold Blood" by Truman Capote. However it is actually based on a horrific true crime and is very disturbing.

[@tarico4436]

Your review of "A Canticle for Leibowitz" was impressive. I just got through re-reading it this year, 2024. I'm commenting because you say you read that other book by the despair guy several times. I read it 20 years ago, and re-read it about 7 years ago. I've listened to two different college professors give completely different reviews of it than my review; one teaches at Yale, the other at a smaller college. My question is: can you film a YT video of it?

[@adams.1404]

Having read Of Mice and Men many times, I have to disagree with your interpretation of Curly's Wife (though I do find it interesting). Regarding not having a name, I believe that's primarily to display how she's alienated from the men. In a negative way. The whole book is about the loneliness and longing experienced by most of the characters, and her being ostracized and intentionally kept distant from everyone while she is clearly just as lonely and looking for companionship is her own stake in that plight, evidenced by the fact that no one (including the reader) seemingly even knows or uses her name. She's effectively not seen as a real person by the farmhands - which, in alignment with the final line, is I think ultimately meant to be read as tragic. Does Steinbeck intend for us to "blame" her in some way for having caused her own murder? It's been a bit since I read it and so may be short on some of the exact details, but again I don't think so. Lennie yells blame at her after he inadvertently kills her, but he's Lennie. In his mental ineptitude he's at least partially incapable of fully grasping the extent of the situations he finds himself in (/creates), and so not a perfectly reliable source from which to draw conclusions of authorial intent. He's scared, and as always takes the simplest path of understanding (and does take blame on himself eventually, saying "I've done a bad thing...", etc). Afterwards Candy also lays some of the blame onto her, but that's him lashing out at what I might label fate, or inevitability. He's upset that her murder means they'll never be able to have their little stake of land, and doesn't want to admit that perhaps he believed all along it was never going to happen anyway. Ultimately, any blame I can remember being put on Curly's Wife I think can largely be attributed to frustrations over the world/circumstances in general. George's reaction is the one we're finally, most prominently left with, and I think it's the one Steinbeck intends us to take. When George finds out about the killing he's not mad, he's just sad. Despondent and hurt by the painful inevitability he had spent so long avoiding, in trying to protect Lennie in a world from which there is no lasting protection. He knows it means Lennie must die, and in a way so must a part of himself. Now I would agree that there's certainly not much grief shown for the poor dead girl, even from her own shit of a husband - but again I think that speaks largely to her own tragedy of segregation and neglect. Personally I've always read Curly's Wife as a fairly sympathetic character (as is most everyone in Of Mice and Men), but I really appreciate the alternate perspective and excuse to think about/write this up lol, thanks

[@patchup]

I am just starting your video but I wanted to comment before I forget. I appreciate how you separated boring from bad. Not all books that are boring are bad. A simple difference in culture can remove much of what motivates or immerses a reader. Because we don't understand the political, social, or economic environment of the time a reader might not be as connected as we would if we were reading a similar book with a social awareness in today's zeitgeist.

[@Mj323_bb]

Great as always. RE: Steinbeck -- I highly recommend =reading= East of Eden (great retelling of the Cain Abel story, intertwined with California and Steinbeck family history; one of my favorites), and =watching= Cannery Row (quirky and funny, but has a bit of depth/philosophy). I'd be curious to hear your take on male vs female characters/roles in both. Grapes of Wrath is a powerful book, but a definite downer, man's inhumanity to man type stuff set in California Dust Bowl/migrant worker settings.

[@Mj323_bb]

I own the Cannery Row movie and re-watch it every few years, so I did so again this evening: I still enjoyed it quite a bit, but it had a couple scenes that were a bit longer, slower, and darker than I remembered and definitely contains scenes that are dated either by the sensibilities baked into the 40 year age of the movie or the 80 year age of the novel. It's 75/72 on rotten tomatoes, which feels about right. I also sampled the Audible version and as I remembered, found it a more difficult listen. Meanwhile, it's time for a re-engagement with East of Eden, and I think the Audible version of that =will= work for me based on its sample -- but it's a pretty long book, so that will take time to complete.

[@jimlang7461]

#suggestion V - Thomas Pynchon

[@1603holly]

So, just my opinion; but East of Eden is irredeemably awful, every character is the worst. Again, just my opinion. But I did read the book for pleasure originally, not for a class. I disliked it almost as much as Stranger In A Strange Land. Loved Grendel...

[@jeromemckenna7102]

I've tried to read Mark Twain and his dialect puts me off. I love Dickens who uses dialect but does it better. I've read Mark Twain's autobiographical writings. There is a 3 vol version that can be gotten cheaply. Read bits and pieces from it. Read 'Grapes of Wrath' next.

[@TerraSapien]

I wonder if you would like Haroun & the Sea of Stories by Salman Rushdie. I never see it recommended, it’s such an unusual book, an adventure fantasy that he wrote for his children. But something about it really stuck with me in the way that some children’s books do, like Watership Down by Richard Adams. Both of those I didn’t read until I was an adult, and I think about them fairly often.

[@SteveRowe]

I'm not sure how many people consider Arkansas "mid-Western". On the other hand, you should definitely do the Sunday coffee problems with your Kentucky accent.

[@misterjaxon2559]

Here are a couple more I think you would like: Catcher in the Rye by J. D. Salinger and To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee.

[@FordFourD-aka-Ford4D]

They tried to make us read *Grendel* in 5th grade. *FIFTH GRADE!!* I don't think any of us really got it. Only thing I remember is Grendel flipping off the sky in the first chapter. (I guess 11 year old me thought that was pretty funny lol)

[@DanLamey-g5d]

Please overdub your "dark matter video aged like milk" release with an Arkansas accent. PLEASE!

[@theprecipiceofreason]

"I was like, 'Virginia Wolfe, those aren't the same *things* '" crrracked me up

[@sfitzsi]

Thanks for your reviews! It made me really happy to listen to them on an otherwise pretty gray day. I think you said you liked F.D’s Crime and Punishment, so my suggestions for more Russians are FDs Brothers Karamazov, (or if your in a hurry just the Grand Inquisitor story) Tolstoy’s Anna Karinina, Gogol’s the Overcoat short and Dead Souls. Chekovs the Seagull and Uncle Vanya are great plays. Flaubert’s Madame Bovary is a great character. Wilde’s importance of being earnest is my vote for most hilarious play ever. Camus the Stranger is great, as is Gabriel Garcia Marquez’s One Hundred Years of Solitude. St Exupery’s Wind, Sand and Stars has some really pretty writing. You’ve probably read Kafkas The Trial already but it may be worth a read if you haven’t. Erica Jongs Fear of Flying is pretty old school feminism but I enjoyed it.

[@thimkful]

Wut? Cannot seem to get interested in 100 year old books already characterized as boring. Not sure what she was thinking here.

[@jmr10276]

You don't need to read classic books to convince people that you're smart. Your casting choices for a potential Muppet TNG is proof enough.

[@camipco]

So having read neither of the books, but also loving Lolita, the thing that works about Lolita is that Nabokov is interested in understanding how the self-delusion of these horrible people works. The thing that is revealed isn't that HH's actions are evil, of course they are, we already know that (or should, terrifyingly there are people who read Lolita who seem to lack that knowledge), it's that HH's thought process behind those actions is rotten. And we see how it connects to the other ways he thinks. Like for example, feels very relevant now, this veneration of Classic Western European Civilization, which HH reveres and Nabokov reveals how the revering of that culture fuels that feeling of superiority that is partly driving HH. So yeah, maybe that's the difference between the two books I haven't read.

[@nom...]

If you want good classics about truly terrible people, my go to would be Wuthering Heights. It's better than Jane Eyre imo, which was written by the author of that book's sister, and is super underdiscussed as of late I feel. Also check out Stoner for one of the most interesting, multifaceted personalities in all of literature (imo). Oh, and, if you haven't read it, you gotta check out The Picture of Dorian Grey. Chapter 14 of that book was the moment that got me hooked onto literature and made me realise it could make me feel things. And (sorry to bombard you with too many recommendations, but) The Bell Jar is still one of the most harrowing, deeply resonating experiences I've had with a book, and the writing itself is so gripping and creative sometimes. I love it. And (sorry! last one, I swear) We Have Always Lived In The Castle is a shorty but a goody. I'm a sucker for not-trash horror that is actually well written and complex and interesting and without giving too much away, whalitc is one of my favorite unreliable narrators I've ever read. Check it out if you liked The Yellow Wallpaper, though it does have a different vibe from that.

[@nom...]

Wow that came out way frickin longer than i meant lol Books are cool

[@transrightsbaybee]

eye love mce and men, and t's beautfully told and heartbreakng, but t's also so frustratng that the only story about someone wth a cogntve dsablty n the amercan lterary canon for such a long tme s one where the dsabled character s a huge burden on everyone who cares for hm and whose mercy kllng reads as a tragedy for george, not lenne. also t's crazy to me you ddn't lke age of nnocence! eye found ellen and may to be very sympathetc characters. ellen's an abuse survvor, and may gets marred off to a douchebag lke archer at such a young age. even archer s a lttle redeemable, snce he seems to at least care about ellen more than the rest of her horrble fam|ly. anyway some books eye'd recommend are the bography of x and the answers by catherne lacey and the dot by elf batuman, snce you've been enjoyng so many books that explore msogyny and where the characters have reason to doubt ther santy. also dasy mller by henry james, whch s pretty smlar to gentlemen prefer blondes, and the song of achlles by madelne mller and james by percval everett, whch are retellngs of classc stores (the lad and huckleberry fnn) but you've probably already been recommended those by now. ps sorry about the werd spellng, my cat stepped on my keyboard too hard and eye don't have the key between u and o 🙃

[@rwed13]

The trial, notes from underground, down and out in Paris and London, people of the abyss, road to wygan pier, the road(by Jack London), the road (by Cormac mcarthy), crime and punishment, metamorphosis, homage to catalonia, ...1984 ... coming up for air, house of the dead, brothers Karamazov, roadside picnic, left hand of darkness, confederacy of dunces

[@yrrep27]

huh, did I write this comment and then forget about it?

[@elijahsinclair7219]

I have a sci-fi recommendation that's a bit introspective: Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro. It's the story of a woman who takes a long drive and reflects on the nature of her life and her past. I can't say much more, because that would spoil the sci-fi element of the book, but seriously I think about that book all the time it's really beautiful. There's also a movie adaptation, but I haven't seen it.

[@McLir]

I was ready to recommend Pale Fire by Nabokov and then noticed you're a fan of his. But yeah, Pale Fire! Fun fact: the coiner of "hypertext," Ted Nelson, gives co-credit to Vladimir Nabokov for Pale Fire's non-linear and hyperlinked narrative structure. The book is wickedly funny, and VN has that wizardly command of English. Thanks for all the great videos!

[@rsm3t]

The Dissertation, by R. M. Koster, has a similar nonlinear structure. I think it must have been inspired by Pale Fire. Both books are funny and excellent.

[@tomershachar9926]

"I need to convince people I'm smart" - average Phys PhD Anyways, imo East of Eden > Grapes of Wrath, though both are still great.

[@victoriap1561]

i liked the movie of age of innocence. O think the whole plot is how the young wife is actually not innocent she knows what she has to do to survive. She's actually the most savy of the three.

[@d3nza482]

Scorsese make good movie? Shockin.

[@Tolstoy111]

@@d3nza482 Why? He's great

[@geneyounkin6789]

Have you read any Italo Calvino? He is absoluty brilliant! I recommend Cosmicomics, a collection of short stories where a single physics or astronomical fact is stretched to its most ridiculous conclusion. I also really enjoyed If On A Winter’s Night A Traveler in which you, Dr. Collier, are trying to settle down with the newest Italo Calvino novel but keep running up against obstacles.

[@geneyounkin6789]

The opening sentence of The Light Years from Cosmicomics: One night I was, as usual, observing the sky with my telescope. I noticed that a sign was hanging from a galaxy a hundred million light years away. On it was written: I SAW YOU.

[@martinajohnson]

I love Calvino. I'm Italian, so, biased, but I think most of his writing is worth reading. ❤

[@SimonRGates]

Doesn't like dialect in writing : speaks in Kentucky.

[@sfitzsi]

Faulkners Southern Dialect is amazing

[@andyleach3625]

Nah, that accent is great. If you slowed it down, I could absolutely listen to a slow description of nothing and be content with it. I’m compelled to recommend Cormac McCarthys Blood Meridian. It’s a very hard read because McCarthy is pathologically averse to using punctuation, but he’s considered a master for a reason. It’s modern though. A western I found surprisingly compelling that’s a bit older is “The Time it Never Rained” by Elmer Keaton. Also a bit of a slow burn but it’s the only western I know of that could be described as Kafkaesque. 😂

[@speedwagon1824]

You should read the Iliad, Odyssey, Epic of Gilgamesh, Metamorphoses, and Ramayana

[@speedwagon1824]

Epic of Gilgamesh is pretty short too, unlike the others here

[@postyoda1623]

Pnin by Nabokov is short, intriguing and weird. Would recommend.

[@rsm3t]

Add Pale Fire to that!

[@KuryakinIllya]

If you like Nabokov, try Jorge Luis Borges. "Fictions" is marvelous.

[@adashofbitter]

Butcher’s Crossing is an excellent, though very dark, western

[@drewp17]

I haven't read Grapes of Wrath yet but I can definitely recommend East of Eden. Thou mayest.

[@andy8041]

Timshel

[@HipNerd]

"Grendel" is great. One of the benefits of having English Lit nerd friends in college was getting introduced to stuff like that.

[@technocore1591]

How can a classic be something older than just 20 years??? That would mean books I read as a young adult are considered classics?!?! Classics are stuff written before I was born. *storms off in a huff* ETA: Regarding the comment about reading about gilded age wealthy people, check out P G Wodehouse's Jeeves & Wooster books, first one is My Man Jeeves. Can't recommend them enough. Skewers the people of the gilded age, spectacularly.

[@GSBarlev]

When it comes to cars, most insurance companies consider anything between 20 and 40 years old to be a classic (and anything older than that to be antique). Obviously books aren't cars, but it's a rule of thumb I've seen in other areas as well.

[@technocore1591]

@@GSBarlev No. Classics are stuff that was old when I was kid. Period. *sticks my fingers in my ears* LALALALALA

[@ZaxololRiyodin]

Maybe you're just old 👴 👴 👴

[@technocore1591]

@@ZaxololRiyodin Ridiculous!

[@serkles8597]

I absolutely love the series with Hugh Laurie, and Steven Fry. Didn't know it was based on books.

[@SystemsMedicine]

Well, if Grendel takes you to your happy place, and of course this would explain a lot about you, then perhaps you should consider reading that classic textbook on tissue engineering, Mary Shelly’s Frankenstein. [If it matters to you, back when the cool kids were reading Grendel, Frankenstein was also on their lists.] If Grendel & Frankenstein slake your ‘classics thirst’, AND you might be able to read a long-form poem, at least consider Milton’s Paradise Lost. [Don’t bother with Paradise Regained. Pro tip: poets write much better when the subject is hell (Inferno, Faust, etc.), but you MUST read a great translation. For example, the Bantam translation of Goethe’s Faust has nothing to do with the tremendous original writing.] [I once inadvertently found myself at a conference on the writing of Willa Cather… And OMG, those people must have been horrifically stung as children.]

[@ericlarosee5357]

What're your thoughts on Flannery O'Connor? She's a short story author, not a novelist, but her stories are great if you're in the mood to read about weird, gross people you're rooting against. A lot of Steinbeck's short stories are also great, we read "The Harvest G*****s" in one of my American Lit courses in college and it's what got me to properly appreciate him. For beautiful writing, and in my opinion one of the only times written dialect really works, if you haven't read "Their Eyes Were Watching God," it's my all-time favorite novel.

[@sp00nf0rks]

WHAT! I didn't know you had a book channel. I'm so excited. Really loved this

[@kevinschutte2363]

My degrees are in philosophy, so I mostly read nonfiction. Here are the fiction authors/playwrights who have never fallen off my "Someday Reread" and "Always Watch" lists: Edward Albee, Jorge Luis Borges, Ray Bradbury, Albert Camus, Lewis Carroll, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, James Joyce, Arthur Kopit, Carson McCullers, Vladimir Nabokov, George Orwell, Harold Pinter, J.D. Salinger, Jean-Paul Sartre, William Shakespeare, Stephen Sondheim, Tom Stoppard, Mark Twain, M. de Voltaire. Hopefully you'll be inspired to share more on these!

[@VirtuousSaint]

the thing about Master and Margarita is, going in the reader needs to be aware of the context. Bulgakov was from a religious family, his father was a scholar, a professor in Kiev Theological Academy, his grandfather was a priest, so was one of his brothers, IIRC. he knew the Bible, the history of Christianity, the history of religion - all very well, and this book is his summary of all that knowledge after he had distanced himself from the Russian Orthodox Church. the gist of it is, Satan comes to Moscow because he's conceived a new evangel for the Bible but he cannot write it because he's not human, so he needs someone to do it for him, he seeks out the Russian Faust and sets him up with the reincarnation of queen Margot, but as powerful as he is, his attempts are ultimately thwarted by the Soviet machine and its relentlessness. we have this book taught in schools (at high-school level in US terms), so it's required reading, but I can tell you from experience, for school kids it's just a well-written book about magic in 1920s Moscow. I straight up skipped the Judea chapters when I read it. so I feel you, this book was written with certain intentions, and modern readers have to be aware of that.

[@chrisl6546]

And it's got a giant homicidal pyromaniac black cat running around setting things on fire with a primus stove!

[@YTHandlesWereAMistake]

Thanks a lot for this. I have skipped over it, but have been to a play reenactment. While it was genuinely one of the best theater performances I've ever been to, the story itself didn't really click before I dove into comments under this video. That plotline makes so much more sense now, and perhaps I should've contacted a doc about my inability to sleep at night properly leading to falling asleep on lessons like literature back in the day. Some of those I remember really well, like Zamyatin's We discussed in previous video, and some, like this one - much less. Though I should admit I have a more scifi-esque taste.

[@ToNowHereShow]

If you like tight, short Sci-Fi and Fantasy books you'll love everything Roger Zelazny especially his earlier stuff like Lord of Light, Creatures of Light and Darkness, and Eye of Cat. He wrote during the New Wave era (1960s-70s) that included Ursula K. Le Guin, Harland Elison and Michael Moorcock though Zelazny denounced the term for himself. It was a similar movement to the New Journalism of Hunter S. Thompson and Truman Capote but in non-fiction. It was this 60s-70s counterculture blended with the hope of the American space programs successes that led these authors to explore concepts like race, gender, religion, mythology, and technology in new ways being a bit more inclusive than the mostly male writers of the Golden Era.

[@sandracraft517]

I suspect you might like Shirley Jackson's work, esp. "We Have Always Lived In the Castle". And if you don't, I'd still love hearing your opinion of it!

[@TheRoboPeanut]

A Steinbeck that is actually fun and light is 'Cannery Row'. I really enjoyed it

[@Michael-Simpson]

I"ll second Cannery Row. But please read Travels with Charley as well. It's "non-fiction" from Steinbeck and a brilliant look into his process and philosophy.

[@seananderson5850]

People still talk about Harry Potter, and it's 25 years old...

[@cmmartti]

Yes, and the Harry Potter series is undeniably a classic, in the same vein as the Lord of the Rings. People will still be talking about it 50 years from now.

[@testostyrannical]

I forgot about Grendel, and I do have to read it.

[@mikegarwood8680]

I think you're mistaking "cultured" (and, perhaps "wise") for "smart". There are many avenues to obtain a sense of "culture", including just living and interacting with your fellow man. I think the concept of reading a select group of literature from any list (or idea of a list)--that has been blessed by the "literati" to bestow "culture"--is just pretentious.

[@Tolstoy111]

Being well read is not important?

[@mikegarwood8680]

@@Tolstoy111 Read what you want, not what the litterati think are important. Live life, don't just read about it.

[@Tolstoy111]

@@mikegarwood8680 I live life to the fullest by reading the best that has been written about life.

[@mikegarwood8680]

@@Tolstoy111 And not living it?

[@Tolstoy111]

@@mikegarwood8680 You can do both. That's what audio books are for. Put James Joyce on the ear buds and live at the same time.

[@LibertyMonk]

Nebraska is ABSOLUTELY considered west. Basically, any state that wasn't a state during the Civil War is 100% western, and even those that did, anything west of the Mississippi river is debatably western, especially Kansas or Texas or anything on the west coast.

[@davidand36]

I grew up in Oregon, and went through a phase in early childhood where I was excited about cowboys and the West, and became genuinely despondent when my father informed me that all of that stuff was actually east of us.

[@d-sizzle3053]

My favorite book in high school was the Things They Carried by Tim O'brien. If you see it in a thrift store, I usually do. I think about it often. My mom says coming out in 1990 is too early for literature, tho lol.

[@arctic_haze]

The Bulgakov book is really a great satire of the early Soviet Union. You don't really get this book without knowing a lot of this period so I am not surprised you did not liked it. People who did live under communism (like me) usually get and like the book even if it becomes difficult on the second half.